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The Lead with Jake Tapper

White House Growing Criticism Over Handling Of Epstein Case; Former FBI Head James Comey's Daughter Fired By Trump; Democrats Walk Out Of Emil Bove Judicial Confirmation Hearing; Trump Says Firing Powell Could Disrupt The Market; WH: Trump Diagnosed With "Chronic Venous Insufficiency"; Inside Camp La Junta After Devastating July 4 Floods; Noem: TSA Rules On Liquids In Carry-On Luggage May Change. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired July 17, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHANE GILLIS, COMEDIAN: That's what's going to happen. Pathetic, right?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Jake Tapper, my fellow Eagles fan, is standing by for "The Lead." Jake, I have nothing to add to that.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: No, notes. No notes. Beautiful. And winning the best team, of course. And Shane Gillis did an outstanding job. I mean, just, you know, kudos all around. Great.

HUNT: All we can say is go Birds.

TAPPER: All we can say is go Birds. Thanks, Kasie. See you back in tomorrow.

HUNT: Have a great show.

TAPPER: The Epstein scandal led to a dramatic moment today on Capitol Hill. The Lead starts right.

Senate Republicans shutting down debate over controversial judicial nominee Emil Bove, leading Democrats on that panel to walk out, at least in part because of that, unable to question Bove on a range of issues, including his involvement, if any, in decisions to keep the Epstein files out of the public eye. And that's not the only open revolt on Capitol Hill over Epstein.

Plus, the White House is disclosing a new medical diagnosis for President Trump after the internet ran wild with about visible swelling in his ankles and bruising on his hands.

And first, TSA said you could keep your shoes on. Now you might get to ditch the travel size bottles and carry on regular size. How technology is helping to change an airport security line near you. Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. The White House in operation

change the subject mode as they attempt to distance themselves from the Jeffrey Epstein scandal that they themselves helped create. While President Trump has said he is fine with the Justice Department releasing, quote, credible evidence about the dead pedophile and sex trafficker and his many friends, the president says he's not interested in appointing a special prosecutor, despite calls from some in his party for one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president would not recommend a special prosecutor in the Epstein case. That's how he feels. And as for his discussions with the attorney General, I'm not sure.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: And where is the U.S. attorney General, Pam Bondi? Well, not in Washington, D.C. where scrutiny continues over handling of the Epstein investigation by both MAGA and non MAGA folks. Instead, the attorney general spent the day on the west coast of the United States along with Interior Secretary Doug Berman. They went to Alcatraz, the long shuttered prison on a small island off the coast of San Francisco. That's because the Trump administration is looking to reopen the long defunct prison.

Bondi did not answer Fox's questions about Epstein. We should note that Fox was the only network allowed to tag along on Bondi's Alcatraz visit. Yet another example of the Trump administration not only favoring media that offers friendly, even sycophantic coverage, but also openly excluding any independent press that might ask questions they don't like or provide coverage that is honest instead of glowing. Pretty, brittle and sensitive folks, apparently.

Meanwhile, we are hearing today from federal prosecutor Maureen Comey, whom the Justice Department abruptly fired yesterday. She's not only the daughter of former FBI Director James Comey, long a Trump nemesis, but she also worked on the Jeffrey Epstein and Sean "Diddy" Combs criminal cases.

In an email to her former colleagues, Comey, Maureen Comey, to be clear, wrote, quote, if a career prosecutor can be fired without reason, fear may seep into the decisions of those who remain. Do not let that happen. Fear is the tool of a tyrant.

Let's bring in CNN senior justice correspondent Evan Perez and Evan, Maureen Comey oversaw what seems to me to be or have been the most serious arrest and prosecution of Epstein ever.

In 2019, during the first Trump administration, it looked as though Epstein was actually going to face some serious consequences, which he previously avoided, although, of course, he took the coward's way out, dying by suicide in prison soon after. What are your sources telling you about why Maureen Comey was fired? EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: We don't know because

they're not really explained. Certainly did not explain it to her in that letter, Jake. And we know that this letter was a lot like a lot of the letters that have been provided to people who were summarily let go. They were some, in some cases, provided only an hour to clear up their desks and leave the building. And so that's the way this was done.

Now, it is possible, as you pointed out, she is a daughter of James Comey, who has been someone that President Trump has long had in his sights and has made a political target. So it is possible that it is simply that the fact of her last name that put her on their radar. It is interesting, however, Jake, that the president has been urging everyone to stop talking about Epstein.

And someone at the Justice Department decided last night at 6:00 p.m. was the right time to fire Maureen Comey, which of course, extends the coverage for yet another day, another news cycle. And so at this stage, we don't know whether the firing has something to do with the fact that she was associated with the Epstein case.

[17:05:06]

But we know that the president and the White House are still trying to build this narrative that someone in the last few years has managed to put some things into these Epstein files that Trump says makes it not trustworthy, not something that you should be able to see.

So we expect, however, that this is not going to end with this. We know that people in Congress are trying to push for these documents to be released once and for all.

TAPPER: All right, Evan Perez, thanks so much. The Epstein scandal also spilling into other areas of government. Sources tell CNN that some Republicans on the House Rules Committee, upset with the handling of the Epstein case, are now holding up a final vote on a separate matter, Trump's DOGE budget cuts.

Just hours earlier, in a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, Democrats staged a walkout when Republicans prevented them from questioning a judicial nominee about his role in the Epstein scandal, among other topics. CNN's Manu Raju on Capitol Hill.

Manu, a lot of frustration, both Democrats and Republicans, over the refusal of the Trump administration to release more information or at least allow questioning of folks about this.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, And a lot of the Republicans who are demanding this information are simply brushing off Donald Trump's attacks against them, suggesting that they are weaklings, calling some of them stupid, suggesting this is a Democratic hoax and the like. I asked a lot of the Republicans about those concerns, and many of them simply said that they believe that this issue is too important. And that's why they are pressing ahead for some accountability or some release of these files. In fact, as you just mentioned, there is a bill that is waiting action

in the United States House that would cut about $9 billion in federal funding. This is something that the Trump administration is pushing to get through its final step. But there's a procedural vote that needs to happen first.

And in that procedural vote, several Republicans have balked all day, said they will not support this going forward unless there's some agreement on how to move ahead with some sort of Epstein resolution. There's some signs, Jake, that they may have reached an agreement. We're trying to learn more details about that, but at the moment, many of them are saying that they plan to press ahead no matter what Donald Trump says.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Don't take that personally.

REP. TIM BURCHETT (R-TN): I don't take anything personal up here. I'm the 435th most powerful member of Congress. Ultimately, I don't answer to the president or the voters. I'm going to answer to my maker. As a Christian, the Bible talks about Jesus saying how you treat the least amongst you is how you treat me. And surely our children are the least amongst us.

REP. RON JOHNSON (R) HOUSE SPEAKER: Read with the White House. We agree with the president. Everything he said about that, all the credible evidence should come out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: And the status of speaker of the House right there indicating that he says that they're all on the same page. But that's simply not the case, Jake. Some Republicans going much further, in fact, a number of them have so far signed on to an effort led by Congressman to Thomas Massie of Kentucky to force a vote in the full House to release this information.

And at the moment, Jake, it looks like Massie has the votes to force that vote. But we'll see if that happens or the Republican leadership tries to figure out a way to squash that.

TAPPER: Yes, his Democratic partner in that, Ro Khanna, was on the show yesterday that said all 212 Democrats in the House are going to vote for it. And then Massie has seven Republicans total. That's 219. That's all you need. There was also frustration today in the Senate Judiciary Committee. Tell us about that.

RAJU: Yes, there's Emil Bove. He's the number three official at the Justice Department right now. He has been nominated to sit on a federal appeals court. But a number of his actions have drawn enormous criticism from Democrats, part of which was how he went after January six prosecutors, how he went to move to fire a number of Justice Department officials, how he allegedly sought to prevent or deny court, not follow a court ordering the release of planes that were being sent to El Salvador filled with migrants. And Democrats, furious, walked out of this hearing right before a key

vote was set to occur. And one of those senators, Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey, teed off on Republicans for doing so.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CORY BOOKER (D-NJ): He held a leadership role at the Department of Justice since the beginning of the Trump administration after months of public statements about, quote, unquote, truckloads of documents in the Epstein files.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Ultimately, though, Jake, there was a vote in that committee. 12, 0 was the vote because all 12 Republicans voted for him and all 11 Democrats walked out and did not cast that vote.

TAPPER: All right, Manu Raju on Capitol Hill, thanks so much. Senator Alex Padilla of California here is here. He's a Democrat. He's on the Senate Judiciary Committee. He was one of the Democrats who walked out in protest earlier today. Senator, why did you walk out of today's committee vote on Emil Bove?

SEN. ALEX PADILLA (D-CA): I mean, a couple of reasons. What happened today in the Senate Judiciary Committee is just the latest example of Republicans so not just tearing down the norms of the Senate Judiciary Committee. But the Senate as a whole, it's not going to abide by the rules we agree to on a bipartisan basis for how the committee should function.

I mean --

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TAPPER: What rules were they not abiding by?

PADILLA: Affording Senator Booker an opportunity to ask questions or even to call for a vote on bringing forward the inspector general, the whistleblower that has, you know, come out publicly about Emil Bove's comments, things like the targeting anybody involved with the prosecutions around January 6, things like if we court orders that come out against what the Trump administration wants, that they're just going to ignore it.

I mean, the committee deserves to hear directly and to consider it before any confirmation votes on Emil Bove. Republicans don't want to hear it. They don't want to hear it. And Emil Bove is number three, top official in the Justice Department. With everything going on around the Epstein case and Epstein files, the involvement of the attorney general herself, he's probably been in the room. He's probably been at the table. What role did he play in determining?

There is a list, there is an election release files or not. The committee deserves to hear this before taking action. But this Republican majority doesn't want to hear it. They're trying to squelch any information that Donald Trump doesn't want to go out. And Democrats aren't going to be a party to that.

TAPPER: Back in your home state of California, U.S. Attorney General Pam Bondi, as well as the Secretary of the Interior Doug Burgum visited Alcatraz Island today. Here's some of what Bondi said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAM BONDI, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Alcatraz could hold the worst of the worst. It could hold middle class violent prisoners. It could hold -- it could hold illegal aliens. It could hold anything. This is a terrific facility.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: What was your reaction?

PADILLA: But here they go again, right? Nothing but bad news for Donald Trump between the Epstein files, between economic indicators, prices are going up. So in classic Trump fashion, let's distract. Right? Let's talk about something else.

Alcatraz is not a serious proposal. The cost of bringing that up to minimum standards to serve as a detention facility, you know, we've been hearing from Republicans all year long. They want to reduce the federal budget. They're looking for cost savings. Not unnecessary.

TAPPER: How much we're talking right now?

PADILLA: I'm sure more than probably billions of dollars --

TAPPER: Yes.

PADILLA: -- to bring it up to snuff. So this is just another effort to distract from the horrible news brought to you by the Trump administration.

TAPPER: Let's talk about immigration. Because you recently introduced legislation which would require ICE officials to wear visible ID. The Department of Homeland Security has pushed back, saying that would subject their agents to doxing to their identities being, you know, blasted all over the internet and repercussions from individuals targeting them for violence or whatever. Don't they have a point?

PADILLA: Well, they have a partial point, but that's why I worked with former ICE agents and ICE, former ICE leaders in crafting the legislation. So are there exceptions for operations that are truly sort of covert and going after the worst of the worst? Yes, but by and large, this is proven public safety policy.

Other federal law enforcement agencies are required to identify themselves. The name of the agency, and if not the name of the officer, at least a badge number. It's a policy that's in place for state law enforcement agencies across the country, local law enforcement agencies across the country.

And so I believe it's in the interest not just of community safety, but the safety of the ICE agents themselves, because there's a lot of fear out there about ICE impersonators.

There's been a lot of cases about people impersonating ICE for lack of this identification requirement that leads to theft, burglary, kidnapping, sexual assault, and even more. So it's proven safety for community, safety for the officers, protect against imposters. It makes sense.

TAPPER: So the Pentagon had sent about 4,000, I think, National Guard members to the Los Angeles area. The Pentagon just released 2,000 of them. They were obviously all deployed there last month in response to the ICE raid and then the protests that resulted in.

What have you been hearing from constituents about this? And the ongoing immigration raids of undocumented immigrants and others in California?

PADILLA: Yes, well, this is the one of the most taxpayer, costly attempts by the Trump administration to escalate tensions unnecessary. This is a political move, plain and simple. Stories are coming out. You can, you know, search it for yourself of how inefficient the time was spent by National Guardsmen and women who were taken away from other critical missions, by the way, including getting ready for peak fire season in California, or even the Marines standing around protecting buildings where there's really no activity there.

In response to what? People standing up and speaking up for due process rights, First Amendment rights in Los Angeles. What Trump doesn't want to hear, and so he federalized the National Guard, sent them in, sent to the Marines. And because he doesn't want the dissent. What he wants is the spectacle. It was unnecessary.

[17:15:00]

And the way ICE is going about their enforcement operations, it's increasingly cruel, increasingly extreme. For all the talk about, you know, going after the worst of the worst, as Attorney General Bondi said, or Donald Trump saying, those dangerous, violent criminals, the numbers are coming out. The vast majority of folks detained do not have any serious criminal convictions.

The people that are being caught up in these increasingly cruel raids are farmworkers, cooks, car wash employees, restaurant employees. They were deemed essential to our economy at the tail end of the first Trump administration, at the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic. And now they're the main target of these cruel ICE raids based on these artificial quotas that are being set. There's got to be a better way. This is not in our security interest. It's not in our economic interests.

TAPPER: All right, Senator Padilla of California, thanks so much. Appreciate your time, sir. Had the medical diagnosis disclosed by the White House today after the president has been repeatedly seen with swollen legs, bruises on his hands.

Plus, a new interview with Hunter Biden with the son of the former President Joe Biden is saying about 2024 and why, in his view, the Democrats lost.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:20:00]

TAPPER: Our Money and Politics Lead today, U.S. stocks ending this trading day up. In fact, the S and P and NASDAQ reached new record highs one day after President Trump says it's unlikely that he will fire Fed chair Jerome Powell, acknowledging in an interview that it would disrupt the market if he did so.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I'd love if he wants to resign, that would be up to him. They say it would disrupt the market if I did. But you know, there are many people say he should be removed because of the fraud of what he's doing at the Fed.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

TAPPER: Joining us now, former Trump campaign senior adviser Bryan Lanza and Democratic strategist Chuck Rocha. Bryan, economic experts are warning that if he did fire the Fed chair, and he says he won't, at least not right now, it would cause a financial crisis. Is the threat of a financial crisis, do you think, enough to stop the president from doing so?

BRYAN LANZA, SENIOR ADVISER, TRUMP 2024 CAMPAIGN: No. Listen, I think if the president feels justified in needing to replace him, you know, that is the rest of the world moving to lower interest rates. Except our current Fed chairman, you know, I think that becomes a problem. And if there's allegedly fraud discovered, obviously Trump's going to act fast.

But he's never been one to be afraid touch any of these rails. He may touch it slowly. You saw Liberation Day where he talked about tariffs and then he sort of reversed and put a pause on it, but he's still moving forward. So I think if he gets to the point where he scares enough people, then he's just going to see every value in going forward.

TAPPER: And the Fed has basically said that they would consider lowering interest rates except for the uncertainty that's been created because of the tariffs. So it's not unrelated what you're saying, but that's what that's a Powell has said.

CHUCK ROCHA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: And I think the anxiety of unknown is the reason. You probably hadn't already seen him go down. You saw this week the consumer price index continues to go up a little bit. And I think all of these things make the market uneasy. And then when he gets erratic and saying these kind of things, we see these giant up and downs on that. And we all know that even as a Democrat, business don't like that kind of uncertainty.

TAPPER: So the former chairman of the Democratic National Committee, Jamie Harrison, is, guess what? ROCHA: Doing a podcast.

TAPPER: Doing a podcast, exactly. That's what everybody does. One of his first guests, one of the first three guests, I think they dropped three at the same time, was Hunter Biden, President Biden's son. We have an excerpt from Harrison's interview with Hunter that's set to drop next week. It's been released in this excerpt. Hunter said this about why Democrats lost in November 2024. Take a listen.

Oh, I got to read it. OK. I'm sorry. We lost the last election because we did not remain loyal to the leader of the party, meaning his father. That's my position. We had the advantage of incumbency. We had the advantage of an incredibly successful administration. And the Democratic Party literally melted down.

So he blames those who suggested that Biden shouldn't be at the top of the ticket. And that's why Democrats lost.

ROCHA: Count me as a Democrat who needs the Bidens to go away. Because every day I'm on your show and I'm talking about Joe Biden or his son, I don't get to talk about Donald Trump and the craziness that he's doing to the stock markets, consumer price index, Medicaid, Medicare. I'm a Democratic strategist. This is not what I should be talking about. The Bidens, with all due respect, need to go away so we can turn the page and vote against Don.

LANZA: I think it's an important conversation.

ROCHA: Don't know me.

LANZA: You know, certainly they've been wrong. The politics that we have to analyze, what took place, but more importantly, I think when we get back to Joe Biden is we need to see, you know, what took place in the end of his term. Were there staffers that were making the policy decisions or was it really him? Was he coherent enough to make these pardons, all these other things?

I think they're real questions. But as for Hunter being scarred up by the presidential campaign, I mean, that's just politics at this point.

TAPPER: So, Chuck, on the subject of Democrats, a brand new CNN poll out today shows the Democrats favorability among Americans. It is at its lowest point in the history of CNN's polling back to 1992. Only 28 percent of Americans view the Democratic Party favorably. How can you guys turn that around?

ROCHA: I think you have to find somebody there. Never be a real party leader until we have a nominee for president. We are moving into a midterms. And CNN has been covering who is motivated to show up in a midterms in the latest polling. And there's a lot of motivation there.

I can go back to remember working in the 1996 congressional elections when we were trying to make up for just losing like 60 seats after a president's elected. Normally we do well and I think that's what we're looking towards the future. TAPPER: And Bryan, what do you think? I mean, it is true. And 72

percent of Democrats and Democratic aligned voters say they are motivated to go in the midterms. How does your party tap in to Republican enthusiasm that right now seems wanting in a lot of ways?

LANZA: Listen, I think we go back to what's always been, what's always worked for us, promises made, promises kept. As of right now, inflation is lower today than when President Trump took office. Gas prices are lower today than when President Trump took office. You know, the price of eggs are lower.

So he's going to make the economic message. We just need to make sure that it extends for another year and a half so that the voters continue to feel it. But I think that's the only way is, you know, we made a promise to the American people. We've delivered on these promises and that's what should be character. We'll see if it carries.

TAPPER: I'm sure you have something to the promises made, promises kept.

ROCHA: Look, if you talk to people right now about the Big Beautiful Bill that was passed and folks getting lost off of Medicare and SNAP, that by itself will be enough for me to run every midterm election I need to win.

[17:25:00]

TAPPER: What about your concerns, if any, about MAGA being so upset about the failure to release the Epstein files and the fact that Elon Musk comes out, says Donald Trump is in the Epstein files, which I have personally no evidence of, but he did say that. And then a month later, Pam Bondi and the Justice Department put out this document saying nothing to see here, folks. And a lot of people in MAGA world, as I don't need to tell you, Tucker Carlson all the way down, are very upset about.

LANZA: I mean, listen, we're two weeks into this. It doesn't seem like it's going to be stop. I think the President has to figure out what type of valve that he can release so that something, some movement takes place because the status quo is just not working within the base.

ROCHA: Even going further.

LANZA: You know, my mother, you know, she only speaks Spanish, watches Spanish, language liberal to the extreme. She's asking me about the Epstein files and say, why isn't Donald Trump released?

TAPPER: How do you say Epstein files in Spanish?

LANZA: I don't even know.

ROCHA: Epstein files.

TAPPER: Yes, Epstein files. ROCHA: What I was going to say is midterms are only about one thing.

They've always been about one thing. It's motivation. Because a big group of people don't show up to vote in an off year election.

TAPPER: Right.

ROCHA: Motivation right now to me is more important than popularity. I think you will find your local candidate who they are, like who's running for Congress or a candidate. And that's the biggest difference is we have to keep our people motivated. And every time Epstein, or even giving war or giving things to Ukraine will make them mad.

Hell, they're even mad because they think that Superman is woke. There's something making their base mad every day.

TAPPER: Do you agree with that?

LANZA: Listen, I think our base is happy with the progress they're making that President Trump is making. But yes, they are frustrated with the fact that the shot -- at least for four years, the shine of the American spirit was harmed by Joe Biden, whether it's their domestic policies, whether it's border policies or anything. And so they're eager to have that restored. They see President Trump doing. They just wish more was happening.

TAPPER: Just for the record, Superman isn't woke. It's a pretty apolitical movie. I don't know if either one of. you saw it, but --

LANZA: I'm going there this Saturday with my kid.

TAPPER: Yes, I took my daughter, first time she hasn't looked at her phone during the movie in her entire life.

LANZA: That's I think that's enough for me. Yes exactly.

TAPPER: There's no politics in it. It's just fun. I ordered that. Yes, Bryan Lanza, Chuck Rocha . Thanks so much. Appreciate it.

Coming up next, what the White House revealed about President Trump and a new diagnosis for the 79 year old president. CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Listen closely. And he's going to be here with his take.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:31:32]

TAPPER: New today on our Health Lead, the White House revealed earlier today that President Trump has been diagnosed with a condition called chronic venous insufficiency. The news comes after the president and some eagle-eyed Americans noticed swelling in his ankles and bruising on his right hand that he appeared to try to cover up with makeup over the past few months. Let's bring in CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Sanjay -- Sanjay, what is this condition and how common is it? DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: So, you know, so you have arteries which take blood away from the heart and veins which return blood back to the heart. So we're talking about the veins here. Chronic venous insufficiency means the veins really aren't doing their job. They're not returning the blood back to the heart and that's why you see swelling. Typically in the legs, just because of gravity. And it was pretty noticeable, as you mentioned.

Pretty, pretty common, Jake. Over the age of 50, about 5 percent of people have it and that percentage goes up significantly. Certainly people in their 70s are far more likely to have it, so not that surprising. Typically, you know, you want to get it checked out. One thing I'll point out is, you know, he had the physical exam released in April, just three months ago, and at that point they made no mention of the swelling.

So it seems to be, at least according to those reports, that the swelling has sort of really either worsened or -- or just developed over the last three months or so. So that's something to keep an eye on. They did all kinds of testing though, you know. They talked about this, but they did, they looked for blood clots, did not find any. They looked at the overall status of his blood to see if he was more likely to develop blood clots, did not appear to be the case.

They did an echo of his heart as well. Basically trying to determine, is his heart not functioning or pushing blood as well? That did not seem to be the case. So then they did an ultrasound of the legs and that's how they made this diagnosis, Jake, of chronic venous insufficiency. Veins just not returning blood back very well to the body.

TAPPER: And what kind of treatment might President Trump be looking at here?

GUPTA: Well, if -- if there's not an underlying problem like blockages in those veins from blood clots, which again does not appear to be the case, then really you sort of think about this mechanically. You got too much fluid, too much -- too much fluid that's built up in the legs, raising the legs, elevating the legs at night.

Sometimes people will sleep with their legs on a couple of pillows at night. Sometimes people will wear compression socks. You're just basically trying to move that fluid up. You know, a couple things that are potentially problematic is the skin in that area, that -- that can become ulcerated as a result of all that swelling. So you have to keep an eye on that to make sure no ulcers are developing. If so, you'd have to give antibiotics.

But typically, you know, more movement, people who sit a lot are more likely to have this. So my guess is in addition to mechanically trying to move the blood, you know, back up towards the body, towards the heart, encouraging to -- to be not sitting and on his feet much more.

TAPPER: The memo from the White House about this goes into the cause of the bruising on Trump's hand, the hand -- his right hand he's appearing to try to keep covered. We've seen bruising on his hand before when Macron visited. He had a big dark bruise on his hand. What -- what exactly is going on there?

GUPTA: Well, first of all, I think these are two distinct problems. Maybe most people sort of realize that, but this chronic venous insufficiency we were just talking about really has to do solely with his legs and the -- and the swelling in his legs. The hand, you know, it's interesting, what the White House has said is that people who are on some sort of blood thinner, we know the President is on aspirin, and also shaking hands a lot, irritating his hands a lot, they say that that's really the cause of this, and that sort of tracks, Jake.

[17:35:16]

That -- that is something that happens to people. There are other potential concerns, and I can tell you since February, since you saw those images back, you know, several months ago, several doctors have reached out to me about this, sort of offering their speculation as to what this might be, and there are different things, but the most likely cause, I think, is exactly what the White House said. Irritating the hand over and over again, especially in someone who's on blood thinners, it can lead to a hand looking like that, so that does track.

TAPPER: All right, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

Coming up, a boys' summer camp along the Guadalupe River in Central Texas was also flooded, but evacuations there looked quite different than those at other camps, especially Camp Mystic. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:40:22]

TAPPER: Sad story in our National Lead, the body of eight-year-old Virginia Hollis was brought home to Belleville, Texas, last night. Hollis was killed in the devastating flooding at Camp Mystic on July 4th. Residents of the city lined the streets as Virginia's grandfather escorted her horse, which walked behind the hearse. As Camp Mystic continues to mourn the lives lost there, another nearby boys' camp, La Junta, was far more fortunate after it was able to evacuate everyone safely. But the camp itself is a skeleton of what it once was.

For the first time to CNN's Pamela Brown and the world, the owners are letting us see what it looks like now as they reflect on what happened that awful night.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KATIE FINESKE, OWNER AND DIRECTOR, CAMP LA JUNTA: To see the growth and the giggles and the fun and the friendships that form here, that's what this is supposed to be. This is not supposed to look like this. This is not what we're supposed to be filled with.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Almost two weeks after catastrophic flooding hit central Texas, the owners of Camp La Junta, Scott and Katie Fineske, are opening up for the first time to CNN and reflecting on how quickly deadly waters overran their idyllic campground full of campers on July 4th.

SCOTT FINESKE, OWNER AND DIRECTOR, CAMP LA JUNTA: This was our dining hall. So this was a walled building. It had all of our tables. We had 35 giant wooden tables.

BROWN (voice-over): Awakened by the thunder in the overnight hours, the Fineskes started planning for rainy 4th of July activities until Katie looked out the window.

S. FINESKE: A lightning bolt came across the sky and lit up the athletic field, and she looked at me and said, I think I see our dining hall table floating across the athletic field.

K. FINESKE: Water does not rise this fast here, and it's just something that was beyond belief.

BROWN (voice-over): So the Fineskes jumped into action, splitting up and going to each of the 18 cabins on the main grounds because there was no other way to communicate.

K. FINESKE: We've got speakers all through camp. And we also have our own radio station that we broadcast announcements. But all of that stuff washed away.

S. FINESKE: Evacuation is one of those things that's on that emergency plan. And so when the counselors got the directive to pull the kids out of the cabin to go to the maintenance road, they knew exactly what to do. They knew how to do it. They knew the path that they were going to go.

BROWN (voice-over): One of the counselors helped campers climb onto wooden rafters to escape the rising waters in their cabin as you see in this picture shared with CNN.

K. FINESKE: Water was rushing by with -- with huge force and was about chest deep on Scott when we came down. We were on the high ground screaming at the counselors to get their kids in the rafters.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's people in it.

BROWN (voice-over): As the water rushed through the camp, one of the cabins for adult staff was ripped from its foundation and began drifting away.

S. FINESKE: Never made it down to the river, it just floated down the back sidewalk and stopped at the tree right there.

BROWN (voice-over): The Fineskes emphasized the bravery and heroism of the counselors, mostly teenagers.

S. FINESKE: We were very fortunate in the fact that all of our kids were able to get out safely. And it's without them and without the way that they reacted, it would -- it -- it could be a completely different story.

BROWN (voice-over): That reality of a different story becoming abundantly clear to them once the sun rose on July 4th when they say a little girl from Camp Mystic was found alive next door after floating five miles in the torrent.

S. FINESKE: It was very shocking that she was there. It was very shocking that she was in good spirits. And it was very shocking that she wasn't injured.

BROWN (voice-over): Now they're grappling with the loss of friends from nearby camps. Jane Ragsdale from Heart of the Hills and Dick Eastland from Camp Mystic, along with 27 campers and counselors.

K. FINESKE: It's a really strong community, so losing Dick and losing Jane is just -- we have -- it's unthinkable.

S. FINESKE: Our heart goes out to everybody at Mystic, everybody in the community. This is a disaster that's hitting a whole lot of people.

BROWN (voice-over): Despite the physical toll of the storm, they say the camp's spirit of grit and resilience is unchanged since its founding nearly 100 years ago.

K. FINESKE: We plan to be back in 2026. I feel like the work we do here is too important to miss, and it's just not an option for us to not rebuild and be back for the kids next year.

S. FINESKE: It's not camp right now. It will be. It will be. But it's hard at this moment to see and to know what it has been for so many years, and it's difficult.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[17:45:18]

TAPPER: And our thanks to Pamela Brown for that reporting. A TSA rule that's been the norm in the United States for nearly 20 years could soon be changing what the secretary of the Department of Homeland Security says about those travel-size bottles required for any liquid you want to bring in your carry-on and the technology that could make that a thing of the past. Stay with us.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Eighty bucks worth of makeup. Oh, that hurt.

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[17:49:58]

TAPPER: August 2006, that's when TSA and many airport security agencies around the world clamped down on liquids that you could bring in your carry-on luggage onto a plane. One month later -- later, TSA loosened its rule a bit and allowed passengers to carry on some liquids, but restricted them to 3.4-ounce containers. Fast forward to today, and we could soon see the rules change again.

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KRISTI NOEM, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: The day I walked in the door, I started questioning everything TSA does. I mean the liquids I'm -- I'm questioning. So that may be the next big announcement, is what size your liquids need to be. We're -- we're looking at, you know, our scanners, what we have put in place in TSA, a multi layered screening process that allows us to change some of how we do security and screening so it still is safe. It is still a process that is protecting people who are traveling on our airlines.

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TAPPER: Let's bring in two people who know a bit about this subject. CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst, John Miller, and CNN senior national security analyst, Juliette Kayyem. John, so this ban started after the so-called transatlantic terror plot when al- Qaeda and affiliated terrorists wanted to detonate liquid explosives on planes headed to the United States after they took off from London. Who's to say someone wouldn't want to try something like that again? It's not like the terrorist threat is gone.

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, no, and that was a particularly diabolical plot. I mean, that involved, if you remember, I'm sure you do, you know, you used to be able to go through airline security with liquid in a bottle, provided that the seal on the bottle was still unbroken.

What they had done is they had basically been able to create needle sites in the bottom of bottles and inject hydrogen peroxide and other explosives in the bottle, so once they sealed those holes up with a little crazy glue and maybe a piece of tape over it, what you saw was a bottle that appeared to be unopened, the seal on the cap wasn't broken, and 24 people were involved in that plot with these hydrogen peroxide-based liquid bombs that were supposed to blow these planes out of the sky.

They dumbed that down to the -- the no more than three ounces on the idea that that much explosive wouldn't be capable of downing the plane. Moving away from the liquid thing at this point is really to say that the screening technology has improved to the point that when a -- when a bottle goes through that -- that machine, some of the machines have sniffer capabilities to detect explosives, chemical anomalies, but also really sophisticated things like artificial intelligence, which is it begins to recognize what a normal sealed bottle looks like, but if it spots a structural anomaly in the bottle, it will flag that.

So the technology's advanced, but I have to say, Jake, and -- and Ms. Kayyem knows this well, for everything we do in the lab on this side of security, the terrorists from groups like Corazon Group from ISIS and al-Qaeda's development people, they're looking for the next thing we haven't thought of.

TAPPER: Yes. And Juliette, you started at Homeland Security a few years after the liquid ban had been in place. Secretary Noem suggested that TSA's multi-layered screening process might alleviate the need for a liquid ban. What do you think of that, and how has security evolved in the last 19 to 20 years?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes. Well, I'm -- I'm very supportive of both of these changes at TSA. The shoe one we saw a couple weeks ago, and -- and this potential liquid one. Look, security needs to adapt, not just to the threat, as John was saying, but also the to -- to the technology. And -- and this has been tested in other airports. It's a form of tomography.

Basically, it's a CT scan or a 3D image that you can look at a bottle and then determine, as John was saying, whether it's been tampered or other changes to it. It's also part of layered defense. So it's -- when you show up at the TSA line, there's already been about 10 checks on your name and police officers scanning the area.

So at that moment, that tends to be the clog, right? They're taking off the shoes and figuring out whether your hair gel is big enough on, you know, is in a small enough quantity or not. That's the holdup. And I think this -- this focus on -- on both, you know, speed and the right way to sort of flow, as well as security, is important at this stage.

TAPPER: Just last week, TSA announced passengers no longer need to remove their shoes, as you alluded to, when they go through airport securities. What does that -- that enhanced security look like, Juliette?

KAYYEM: So it's going to be -- the irony, I just have to say, the irony here is, of course, we're also having major discussions about the lack of travel going on. So while we're going to make it easier for people because of a domestic economic environment and international fears, our airports are not under as much stress. But the -- the shoe aspect is very similar to -- to the -- the -- the way the technology has changed, which it can take imaging of the shoe now in a way to determine whether it's been tampered with.

[17:55:17]

Richard Reid -- people who are younger won't remember this, Richard Reid tried to blow up an airplane by lighting materials in his shoe. The most important thing to remember about that, it was four months after September 11th. It was -- our reaction was swift, and it was probably too static 25 years later. We -- we are now ready to adapt to a changing threat environment, but also technology.

TAPPER: All right, John Miller, Juliette Kayyem, thanks to both of you.

Today at the White House, CNN asked the Press Secretary if President Trump knows exactly what has yet to be released in the much-talked about Epstein files, and will he get a heads up on what goes public if the Justice Department ever decides to release anything? Hear the response, next.

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[18:00:08]

TAPPER: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.