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The Lead with Jake Tapper
Trump: "Never Briefed" On Names Being In Epstein Files; Maxwell Attorney: Filing Appeal TO Supreme Court Next Week; DOJ Interviews Ghislaine Maxwell For Second Day; Sources: Fed Chair Jerome Powell Told Associates He Would Not Bow To Trump's Resignation Calls; Trump: Haven't Had A Lot Of Luck On Canada Deal; Trump Floats Tariff "Rebate" For Americans; Prosecutor Who Negotiated Kohberger Plea Deal On The Lead; Victim's Brother: Idaho Prosecutor Has History Of Making Plea Deals Without Consulting Families; NFL Finning More Than 100 Players And Employees For Selling Super Bowl Tickets Above Face Value. Aired 5-6p ET
Aired July 25, 2025 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Jake Tapper standing by for "The Lead."
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Thanks so much, Jim. Really appreciate it. We will be watching it tonight on --
SCIUTTO: Appreciate it.
TAPPER: -- "AC360."
[17:00:09]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: And welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. We begin with breaking news. Moments ago, President Trump denied that anyone in his administration ever told him that his name was in the Epstein files.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, were you briefed on your name appearing in the Epstein files, ever?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, I was never briefed. No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Now, this contradicts reporting from CNN and other outlets that Attorney General Pam Bondi briefed President Trump in May, telling him that his name appeared in the files, along with other names containing unsubstantiated claims that the Justice Department found to not be credible. We should obviously note, just because Trump's name is in the files, that's not an indication of any wrongdoing related to the case. But when the story broke earlier this week, nobody at the Justice Department said it wasn't true. Trump's denial comes after the Justice Department today wrapped up its surprise second interview with Epstein's accomplice, convicted sex trafficker Ghislaine Maxwell. These interviews were unusually conducted by the Deputy Attorney General, Todd Blanche, who also happens to be President Trump's former defense attorney.
Mr. Blanche online posted last night that, quote, "The Department of Justice will share additional information about what we learned at the appropriate time," unquote. We're already hearing from Maxwell's lawyer, David Oscar Markus, who said that Maxwell was asked, quote, "Every single possible thing you could imagine."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID OSCAR MARKUS, GHISLAINE MAXWELL'S ATTORNEY: She answered those questions honestly, truthfully, to the best of her ability. She never invoked a privilege, she never refused to answer a question. So we're very proud of her. We're proud of how the process has worked over the past day and a half.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: So where is all this headed? Is this just a way for the Trump administration to try to appease their angry base, which wants the Epstein files released, taking some actions to distract from the fact that they have not released thousands of Epstein files that they could release right now if they wanted to. Or could this end up benefiting Ghislaine Maxwell, ultimately, the only person facing any sort of justice for the horrific sex trafficking crimes surrounding Jeffrey Epstein, who died in jail awaiting trial? Let's look at what's happening right now right in front of our faces. Suddenly, some voices in MAGA media are all of a sudden treating convict Ghislaine Maxwell not as a vile perpetrator of sex crimes against children, but as this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She just might be a victim. She just might be. There was a rush to judgment. There was a lot of chaos there for a while. All right, granted, she hung out with Jeffrey Epstein, and I know that's apparently not good, but she's in jail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Ghislaine Maxwell is a convicted sex offender. Let me say it again, sounds like some people don't really understand this, Ghislaine Maxwell is a convicted sex offender. And many of her victims who were under the age of 18, some as young as 14, testified that she ruined their lives and their ability to trust anyone after she groomed them for the sexual predator Jeffrey Epstein when they were just kids. Sometimes Ghislaine even allegedly participated in the sexual abuse herself. And yet, stunningly, this is not the first time that Ghislaine Maxwell has had sympathy expressed about her from the MAGA movement.
In fact, in 2020, right after her arrest, sympathy was expressed from President Trump, who literally wished her well. Here's the president today. He was asked about the interview with Maxwell before he left on a trip to Scotland and again after he arrived.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you consider a pardon or a commutation for Ghislaine Maxwell if --
TRUMP: It's something I haven't thought about. It really some --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- if recommended --
TRUMP: It's something-- I'm allowed to do it, but it's something I have not thought about.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But you're not --
TRUMP: I don't know anything about the conversation. I haven't really been following it. A lot of people are asking me about pardons, obviously, this is no time to be talking about pardons. Todd will come back with whatever he's got. You make it a very big thing over something that's not a big thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: We don't yet know what information or what names Maxwell may have offered up Todd, the deputy attorney general, or whether anything this woman says can be trusted in any way. Maxwell's crimes of preying on vulnerable young girls, often from broken homes, are well documented. There's no rush to judgment, this has been going on for more than 20 years. The content of her character is fairly well established. Trump, though, for some reason, this president is crueler to Rosie o' Donnell than he is to Ghislaine Maxwell, who's in prison for sex crimes against minors.
[17:05:26]
Why? Given the facts in front of us right now, including Ghislaine Maxwell's two Justice Department interviews with Trump's former defense attorney, one has to wonder, is a table being set for Ghislaine Maxwell to receive some sort of clemency, some sort of pardon, some sort of reward, should President Trump be so inclined? And what could ever justify that?
Let's bring in CNN Chief Legal Affairs Correspondent Paula Reid and CNN Senior Legal Analyst Elie Honig, a former assistant U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York.
Paula, a lot's going on today. President Trump denying some of your reporting that he was briefed that his name was in the Epstein files in May. I believe you. I do not believe the denial. Todd Blanche sitting today for a second interview with Ghislaine Maxwell.
PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, let's start with that denial. The White House knows the Justice Department denied those stories that were confirmed and reported by multiple outlets. And we know that this Justice Department does not work independently from this White House, nor does it pretend to. And let's go back a few months to the episode that really kicked off much of the controversy that we're reporting on now. And that's when the attorney general decided to release binders of what promised to be new information to a group of influencers that wound up backfiring, as these influencers knew there was nothing new.
But I also spoke with officials at the White House who were furious they did not redact Trump's name, even from things that were publicly available. So there is a distrust by the White House of the attorney general to handle something like this. So the idea that she wouldn't flag Trump, that his name would be in these files, I mean, it just strains credulity. So we stand by our reporting there.
Then, in terms of this meeting today, the biggest headline that we got was just a little glimmer of the kinds of things that Maxwell is talking about with the deputy attorney general. Her lawyer revealed that she was asked about, quote, maybe 100 different people, that she answered the questions about everybody and didn't hold anything back. So that's really the only information that we've gotten about the kinds of things that they are discussing. We do not expect any additional details from the Justice Department at this point. Everything we are learning is coming from Maxwell's defense team.
So we have to kind of apply the skepticism here and remind people, as you have, Jake, that she was convicted for sex trafficking of minors, women testified how she recruited, groomed, and in some cases sexually assaulted them. This is also a woman whose credibility has come under scrutiny by the justice system. So if they are going to take what she says, they have to have corroborating evidence. Her lawyer said it exists. We, of course, haven't seen it.
TAPPER: One also wonders if any of the victims of the Epstein-Maxwell crimes are being consulted in this. They totally were left out of the picture back in 2008 during that sweetheart plea deal that the Bush administration gave to Epstein.
Elie, Maxwell's lawyer, Markus, spent a good deal of time today talking about their appeal that they're making to the U.S. Supreme Court about her case. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARKUS: We don't think this will affect her appeal. We're appealing on a very important ground, which is the government at the time promised her that, promised Jeffrey Epstein that any potential coconspirators would not be prosecuted. And I'm surprised, I don't think President Trump knows that the Justice Department took the position that bargain should not -- that promise should not be upheld. President Trump is the ultimate dealmaker.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: So, what exactly is the appeal argument here? And I'm getting echoes of the Bill Cosby freedom going on here, because the government entered into an agreement with him, violated it, sent him to prison, and then ultimately he got out because like it or not, the government had made this promise. Is it the same thing here? ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, Jake, there are definitely some worrisome similarities. And this is a reminder of just how corrupt that deal was that was given to Jeffrey Epstein back in 2007, 2008, by Alexander Acosta, who was then the U.S. attorney for Florida. In addition to giving Jeffrey Epstein essentially a walk, they gave him 13 months on a crime that he could have been convicted for 10 years up to life. So they gave Jeffrey Epstein a walk. And the truly bizarre thing about that deal is they also included a provision saying that Jeffrey Epstein's coconspirators will never be prosecuted.
I have never once done that as a prosecutor, never once heard of that or seen it. And now you, here we are 15 years later or 17 years later, and Ghislaine Maxwell's lawyers are trying to leverage that. They're saying, hey, DOJ, you promised us no further prosecutions of coconspirators, she's a coconspirator. And what the defense lawyer is doing there, and I don't fault him, it's his job, is he's making a pitch to Donald Trump. He's giving Donald Trump a technical hook.
[17:10:10]
He's saying, hey, Mr. President, if you want to get out of this, if you want to give Ms. Maxwell some benefit, just point to that old deal and say, oh, all we're doing is honoring that old deal that was made in '07, '08. So Maxwell's trying to get something for herself here. Let's be clear about that as well.
TAPPER: All right, Elie Honig and Paula Reid, thanks so much.
Joining us now to discuss conservative attorney George Conway. Thanks for being here, George. So, I mean, to state the obvious again, the Justice Department, the Trump administration could release thousands of Epstein files right now if they wanted to. They don't have to go to get a judge's permission for grand jury testimony, which probably wouldn't have anything in it anyway, there's thousands of pages. Now, we should understand a lot of it's hearsay, probably some of it's false.
It doesn't necessarily mean that the people named are guilty, but they could do that.
GEORGE CONWAY, CONSERVATIVE LAWYER: Right. And they don't. And it's kind of odd. And it's also very odd that they're going to, that they're lying about whether or not they told Donald Trump about, or that he's lying about that. I mean, can you imagine being the attorney general or the deputy attorney general and not telling Trump he was in those files?
TAPPER: Of course they told him.
CONWAY: Of course they told him.
TAPPER: It's their job. It's their job.
CONWAY: Well, it's their job because this is a Justice Department that's unique in history --
TAPPER: Right.
CONWAY: -- because these are his personal criminal defense lawyers, Emil Bove and -- Bove and Todd Blanche, he put them in there precisely --
TAPPER: Right.
CONWAY: -- to protect himself. And you know, as you pointed out, it's ridiculously unusual for the deputy attorney general to go out and interview a witness like this.
TAPPER: No, you'd send a line prosecutor.
CONWAY: Right.
TAPPER: Some -- or somebody who knows the case.
CONWAY: Right.
TAPPER: Right?
CONWAY: Like the woman they fired.
TAPPER: Oh, right. Yes.
CONWAY: We forgot about that.
TAPPER: Maurene Comey.
CONWAY: Maurene Comey. Yes.
TAPPER: Maurene Comey. So, what do you think? And obviously it's pure speculation because we don't know, they're not releasing any transcript, they're not releasing any audio, there's nobody else in the room that I know of. What do you think Todd Blanche and Ghislaine Maxwell are saying?
CONWAY: Look, I mean, I don't know what the play is here. Just as you said, it's hard to understand what the play would be. If the play is to give her some kind of clemency, I mean, it's going to stink to high heaven. I mean, it's -- you know, that she is, she is a sex predator. She was found guilty of doing these things.
She found guilty of, you know, she would take the passports away from these girls who they dragged to Epstein island. She did all of this stuff. She's --
TAPPER: Yes.
CONWAY: -- neck deep way. And so the notion that they would give her clemency is just insane. But then what would she say?
TAPPER: Right.
CONWAY: What could she possibly say that would believable? And, you know, and the Justice Department trashed on her credibility back when they -- when they prosecuted her. They said that she couldn't be trusted under oath.
TAPPER: It's crazy -- it's crazy. And now we see some members of MAGA media, we saw -- first of all, we've already seen some MAGA commentators like Dinesh D'Souza, Charlie, are basically saying, I'm moving on as instructed. We see Epstein's name barely even mentioned on conservative channels like Fox or whatever. And now we see this Newsmax guy saying that she might even be a victim, this convicted sex predator against kids.
CONWAY: It just -- it really just goes to the complete lack of shame about people who want to defend Donald Trump no matter what.
TAPPER: Yes.
CONWAY: And this is something where -- I mean, the fire is coming -- the call is coming from inside the house. This man, Donald Trump, has revealed himself not to want these files to see the light of day. Now, he's not a generous person. He's not a person who's empathetic and wants to help other people for the sake of helping other people. The only reason why he wants to do this is to help himself.
He knows what's in those files, and he obviously has some concern about it. Whether or not it's anything serious or just something embarrassing, I don't know.
TAPPER: Yes. And there's probably a bunch -- I mean, again, it's a lot of hearsay. It's interviews. You do a big investigation.
CONWAY: Right.
TAPPER: I'm sure people say, oh, I heard this guy was there, I heard that guy was there. By the way, he was -- he was doing that today, Trump.
CONWAY: Yes.
TAPPER: He was saying people should look into Bill Clinton, they should look into the former president of Harvard. They should look -- I mean, he was doing that.
CONWAY: Yes.
TAPPER: But -- and then he said also that he was going to make a list, that he wasn't going to release the Epstein files, but he was going to make a list.
CONWAY: He'd do himself better if he just shut up about it. But --
TAPPER: This morning he was asked about that Wall Street Journal story from a week ago about a letter that Mr. Trump, President Trump, allegedly contributed to Epstein's birthday book when he turned 50 in 2003. Again, we should note that lots of people contributed letters, including Bill Clinton. 2003 was before any of this stuff happened, the first raid on Epstein's house was 2005. Like to me, it wasn't like necessarily that big a deal other -- like, we knew that Trump --
CONWAY: Well, the Sharpie drawing of a naked woman, I guess that's something, we haven't seen that from a president before.
TAPPER: Right. Well, we still haven't seen the Sharpie drawing. He denies that he did it also.
[17:15:01]
CONWAY: Yes.
TAPPER: But anyway, he was finally talked about it. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you maintain you did not write a letter for Jeffrey Epstein's birthday book?
TRUMP: I don't even know what they're talking about. Now, somebody could have written a letter and used my name, but that's happened a lot. All you have to do is take a look at the dossier, the fake dossier.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: So I mean, he's basically acknowledging there that possibly a letter did go to Epstein from his office, at least.
CONWAY: Absolutely. And you know, he knows that there are people. He wrote letters to everybody. That's what he used to do. He used to flatter people with letters.
TAPPER: Or criticize them or attack them.
CONWAY: Criticize them. Right.
TAPPER: But he usually did it with a big Sharpie, right?
CONWAY: Right.
TAPPER: I mean, it wasn't --
CONWAY: Yes.
TAPPER: Anyway, George Conway, thanks so much.
CONWAY: Yes.
TAPPER: Good to see you.
Before Trump took off for his trip to Scotland, he revealed something about his feud with Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell and the chances of you, the American consumer, getting what he's considering a rebate from all the money that America is apparently making from the tariffs. We'll explain.
Plus, Super Bowl scandal, a punishment coming for current NFL players not satisfied with the million dollar salaries they're making. They are now accused of reselling Super Bowl tickets above face value. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:20:09]
TAPPER: Our money lead now, President Trump's latest comments about Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell after weeks of pressuring him to lower interest rates.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think we had a very good meeting on interest rates. And he said to me, now, I don't know if he's going to say this on Thursday or everything, but he said to me very strongly, the country is doing well. He said, congratulations, the country is doing really well. And I got that to mean that I think he's going to start recommending lower rates.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: The president there talking about yesterday's meeting at the Federal Reserve after accusing Powell of hiking the $2.5 billion price tag of building renovations after the tour and Powell awkwardly correcting Trump on the costs of the entire project, the president's tone did seem to shift.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: So, you know, this is a very expensive job. I don't know. It got out of control. And that happens. That happens. It's a shame.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Let's bring in Gene Sperling. He was a senior adviser to President Biden. He was once director of the National Economic Council under Presidents Clinton and Obama. Thanks for being here, Gene.
So, according to sources, Powell has told multiple associates that there's no chance he's going to bow to any pressure campaign from the president or anyone else to resign. You know, Powell, do you think that -- how do you think this pressure campaign from the president affects him? I mean, does it make him dig in more, you think?
GENE SPERLING, WHITE HOUSE AMERICAN RESCUE COORDINATOR, BIDEN ADMINISTRATION: I don't think it makes him dig in more. I think it just -- I just think he is -- he's a down the middle of the road guy, you know, moderate Republican probably, and he's not someone who's going to respond to that pressure. But this isn't about really a personality analysis of Jerome Powell. It is about a fundamental commitment in our country to the independence of the Federal Reserve. And that is an independence of which there is significant evidence has benefited our country. And, you know, it's kind of common sense if you know the Federal Reserve is independent, if you know that they're going to balance full employment with inflation then, you know, they're not going to just let inflation go wild to hike up jobs for at an election time. So that independence is important. So I think Jerome Powell is digging in of -- out of a matter of
conviction. And honestly, you know, you talk about things being partisan. You know, if I was being partisan, the thing I would do is say, yes, President Trump, you ought to do that because it would hurt his economy. If people think that the -- that the U.S. monetary policy is now controlled by politicians, they're not going to trust putting their money here as much, and they're going to ask for a higher return. And what that means is that your mortgage rate, your car rate, your student loan rate all go up.
So I think in a lot of ways, this is perhaps about deflecting blame for the challenges still in the economy, as opposed to a serious monetary argument by the president. But in terms of Jerome Powell, I think that most economists left and right would agree that the independence of the Federal Reserve is important. And for him to bow down or resign would be the death of Fed independence, and that he is not going to be that man.
TAPPER: August 1st, one week from today, that's when the White House insists Trump's reciprocal tariffs will go into effect. President Trump says deals are almost finished. He did add this about Canada. Let's play that clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We haven't really had a lot of luck with Canada. I think Canada could be one where they'll just pay tariffs. Not really a negotiation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Why do you think President Trump has focused so much of the trade war on Canada when it's, you know, really, they've imposed tariffs on almost every country around the world.
SPERLING: His obsession with beating up Canada is a puzzlement to so many of us. I don't think you or I wake up in the morning and say, thank God, Ottawa didn't invade again. This is an ally. This is someone whose products often feed into our own products. When you punish them, you're really punishing American consumers.
So I think too often, the president is just in kind of a boxing match, a bullying match, and he thinks we're stronger than Canada, as opposed to realizing that so many of the policies he is doing are going to hurt Americans. And look, right now, no matter what he says, most people are projecting inflation that was supposed to be going down towards 2 percent is now going over 3 percent, and solely due to his tariff policy. And equity markets are calmer because they think he's getting these agreements. And so you're seeing a rise there. But I think if you ask most economists, and just more common sense, I think inflation is rising.
[17:25:05]
You're hearing report after report about prices about to go up. Even in the last inflation report, if you took out cars, it was really up 0.5 in a month, which is a lot. So, you know, I think what most people see is kind of a stagflationary movement, meaning growth is -- was supposed to be two and a half percent that's now going to go down and at the same time inflation is going up. And that is what puts -- makes life hard for Jerome Powell.
If Trump has just made the economy weaker, then you could lower interest rates to try to juice the economy. But he knows that he might also fuel inflation. And you would think the President having partially won the reelection on people's unhappiness about prices, would be a lot more sensitive to the fact that both this pressure on the Federal Reserve and his, you know, tariff policy is likely to very much have the effect of raising inflation or as most people will feel it, higher prices --
TAPPER: Yes.
SPERLING: -- on a lot of ordinary goods.
TAPPER: Let me ask you about something else having to do with the tariffs. This is something that President Trump just said every American would be interested in it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We have so much money coming in. We're thinking about a little rebate. But the big thing we want to do is pay down debt. But we're thinking about a rebate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: All this money that's coming in, I assume he's talking about the tariffs. Where is that money coming in from?
SPERLING: So that money is overwhelmingly being paid by Americans.
TAPPER: With higher prices because of the tariffs.
SPERLING: There's two ways it gets paid. One is that companies pay it, they eat part of it. But most people believe that 70 percent, though Goldman Sachs now sitting, perhaps half, at least half of it is paid for with consumers. It's a tax on consumers. So it's an odd thing.
He's kind of now recognizing that his policy is raising taxes and prices and saying, well, maybe we should give back some. So he's been all over the map. But the biggest thing is you can give people a rebate. We did so in the pandemic three times. But it does increase the deficit.
So for everybody who's been concerned about deficits increases, if the president decides to do that and can pass it's going to be another hit on the deficit and more concern about the U.S. financial stability and higher interest rates, which is exactly what he seems to be arguing against.
TAPPER: Gene Sperling, thanks so much. Appreciate it.
Coming up next on The Lead, three big interviews about the Idaho murders after Bryan Kohberger's life sentence. We're going to talk to the police chief, the lead investigator, and the Idaho prosecutor who negotiated the plea deal. What does he say to the families angered by his decision to take death penalty off the table in exchange for the guilty plea? Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:32:00]
TAPPER: In our law and justice lead, major new interviews on the show today concerning this week's big court case, the sentencing of Bryan Kohberger. He's going to serve life without parole for the killings of four University of Idaho students, Madison Mogen, Kaylee Goncalves, Xana Kernodle and Ethan Chapin. CNN's Jean Casarez is in Moscow, Idaho.
And Jean, you just spoke with the lead investigator and the police chief there.
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the lead investigator for the Idaho State Police, Lt. Darren Gilbertson. He was the -- he went to Pennsylvania and he was the first one to speak to Bryan Kohberger after he was arrested. He said that it was surreal waiting at the barracks for him to walk in and suddenly be eye to eye with the person they were searching for. He also was the lead on processing the home on that search Sunday. He said that Xana Kernodle's room had the most blood of all.
And finally, that phone of Bryan Kohberger, he said that they processed it. And as far as photos, there were some unusual things that people may not even believe. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: You collected an active phone that he had. What did you find on that phone?
LT. DARREN GILBERTSON. IDAHO STATE POLICE/LEAD INVESTIGATOR ON KOHBERGER CASE: When we actually had the physical phone and we were able to do the extract of it, we didn't gain a lot from it. You know, we know that he was clearing a lot of his devices and wiping things from them. We know that he used VPNs. But we also did find screenshots and pictures of news coverage.
CASAREZ: On the case?
GILBERTSON: Correct.
CASAREZ: It has been said that there were pictures on his phone of groups of young people in Moscow and that Maddie, possibly Kaylee, were in some of those photos. Is there any truth to that?
GILBERTSON: No. No truth at all. To this date, we have never found a single connection, anything, between any of the four victims or the other two surviving roommates with him. No pictures, no texts. CASAREZ: Documents that have not been public have now been made public. And Xana Kernodle, found on the floor, over 50 stab wounds, many of them, much of them defensive. Can you -- can you explain that?
CHIEF ANTHONY DAHLINGER, MOSCOW, IDAHO POLICE: She fought. She fought back and she fought hard.
GILBERTSON: After November 13, he's never in Moscow again. Never even comes back. He stops using his debit card, his credit cards. He starts only using cash. Video and surveillance that we would collect and pick up after that then he's often wearing gloves. Very strong changes in behavior.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I also asked him about Kaylee's face because we have learned it was unrecognizable. I said, could that have been his fist? He said, no, it was something else. I said, what about the marks in her mouth, was she bound and gagged? She was not bound and gagged.
Well, the marks, were they from the knife? No, something else. But they don't know what that is. Jake.
[17:35:04]
TAPPER: All right, Jean Casarez. Thanks so much.
Let's bring in Bill Thompson. He prosecuted the case.
Bill, so many people, including, of course, most importantly, the families, are just asking why? Why did Kohberger commit these murders? Authors James Patterson and journalist Vicki Ward have a brand new book out called "The Idaho Four." And in it they write about Kohberger's membership in the incel community. I'm going to read you just this one excerpt, quote, "Becky is a term used in the manosphere chat groups that Bryan is familiar with.
Bryan knows all about incels, that is involuntary celibates. Incels are members of a movement of frustrated men, all virgins, that sprang up on 4chan in 2014 just hours after Elliot Rodger committed mass murder and then suicide," end quote.
There's the insinuation that maybe these murders were rooted in misogyny. What do you make of that?
BILL THOMPSON, PROSECUTOR, LATAH COUNTY, IDAHO: Well, I haven't read the book. The murders themselves, we don't know the true motive. I don't know that we ever will, and I don't know that's something that the criminal justice system can produce. I have heard what you've talked about as far as the rumors, I am not familiar from our investigation with that kind of information, so I don't know where it came from or how legitimate it is.
TAPPER: The father of one of the victims, Kaylee Goncalves, will be on "AC360" tonight at 8:00 Eastern. Kaylee's brother spoke after the sentencing about the plea deal you negotiated. It was to get a conviction for the murders, but it took death penalty off the table. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVEN GONCALVES, BROTHER OF KAYLEE GONCALVES: Despite the magnitude and brutality of the crime, the prosecution chose to accept a plea deal behind closed doors, without trial, without ever consulting our family in any meaningful way. In fact, we learned from the plea deal that had been finalized from an email from the prosecution team. Not in person, not with warning, not with respect.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: What's your response to the family's upset, not just with taking death penalty off the table, but how they were dealt with?
THOMPSON: Well, we certainly recognize. And I respect the feelings of the Goncalves family. We actually spoke with representatives of all four families about the possibility of a plea offer before one was ever made, that was done on the Thursday and Friday before the weekend where the plea agreement was reached. So it's not quite accurate to say that they were never -- well, it's not accurate at all to say that the families were never consulted.
We know that some of the family members of the four different families do not agree with the resolution. We also know that a number of family members strongly support the resolution we were able to reach. And in the end, it's our -- it was our conclusion that the -- to accept guilty pleas as charged to all five counts with stipulated fixed life sentences and a waiver of appeal was the best outcome we could hope for this case. It gives certainty, accountability, and it gives closure. It takes the risks of trial out, not to say that we had questions about the quality of our evidence.
We would have convicted him at trial and we would have ended up with decades of appeals, further victimizing the families for years and years. So we made -- it was our responsibility to make a decision -- to make the decision. Ultimately, it's my responsibility as the county prosecutor, and I believe that we made the best decision, recognizing again that not everybody agrees with it. I appreciate that. I respect their feelings.
TAPPER: Is it possible to make as a condition of a plea agreement such as this a requirement that the defendant explain why he did the crime, why he committed it?
THOMPSON: Well, there's nothing in our law that could compel a defendant to do what you -- what you've described. And frankly, from our experience, and Judge Hippler commented on this as well at the time of sentencing, there is no reason to trust anything that the defendant says because he is going to minimize his own involvement. We have no way to test the truth of what he shares. And in our experience, defendants who are trying to minimize actually victimize the families and the survivors even more by making things up and trying to control the narrative.
Here we have his admission under oath that he did what he was charged with. We would have never had that if we'd gone to trial.
[17:40:02]
TAPPER: Why do you think he did it?
THOMPSON: I don't know. I don't know that we'll ever know. And I can tell you early on, working with the behavioral experts, the profilers, if you will, from the FBI, they told us that in a case like this, it's likely that we would never know the real reasons for why it happened. And even if the perpetrator shared those, it's likely that they would not make sense to anybody else. It would be something that had significance only in his own mind.
So we knew going in that the likelihood of being able to understand exactly why he did this wasn't real.
TAPPER: Bill Thompson, thank you so much. Appreciate it, sir.
THOMPSON: You're very welcome.
TAPPER: Coming up next, the Super Bowl scandal that has more than 100 current NFL players facing hefty fines tonight. Stay with us.
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[17:45:20]
TAPPER: In our sports lead flag on the play tonight, the NFL is fining about 100 players and some NFL employees for reselling their Super Bowl tickets for above face value. Let's bring in former NFL player Donte Stallworth.
So Donte, you played in the league for 10 years. How often do players resell tickets like this for profit?
DONTE STALLWORTH, FORMER NFL WIDE RECEIVER: This has been going on for a while, Jake. I think now that the NFL has really tightened its policies is now that you're seeing this come to light more often. But you know, when I was playing in the NFL, back in the Stone Age, we -- I think it was common practice. It was a -- it was kind of a question of, you know, which guys are going to get tickets, because were only allotted to, we had to pay for the two tickets. But some guys would pay for those two tickets and then go and sell them.
And that's not been a secret. It's been an open secret in the NFL for a very long time. But now with that, they're finning players and threatening to suspend players, I think that'll calm down a lot.
TAPPER: So most of these players are, you know, millionaires, most of them. The lowest paid NFL player makes I think 3/4 of a million dollars a year. What drives a player to do this, to try to profit off it? I mean, I can certainly understand selling them face value, giving them to a charity, you know, give them to your brother or whatever, but like, why profit?
STALLWORTH: Yes, I think that happens. Sometimes it happens where players do give as gifts to family members, friends. But you know what, it was just the culture, I guess. It wasn't like you're making tens of thousands of dollars off of each ticket, but you were still profiting, right? And I think now it's become more of an issue really.
I think the players should be okay with the league being upset and finning the guys for that because I think the big problem is really the IRS. And when that starts to become a problem, then I think players will recognize it as a much bigger issue than it is than it has been in the past.
TAPPER: So the players being punished here are going to be fined one and a half times the face value of the tickets they sold and they'll face a two-year ticket ban unless they're playing in the Super Bowl. Considering that most resale tickets went for more than double their face value, something I learned the hard way when I was looking for tickets to take me and my son to the Super Bowl, do you think the fine and the ban will be enough to deter this from happening in the future?
STALLWORTH: I think so. I think the fact that then the NFL could probably. I'm not sure the exact rules passed your first offense, but if you have a second offense, the NFL could implement something to where, you know, you're suspended for a certain amount of games, maybe one game or something like that. They could implement that because it's been a league policy since 2011, which was the last collective bargaining agreement, or, I'm sorry, the first collective bargaining agreement where that prohibition started. So the NFL is taking more steps now to kind of really clamp down on that.
But I think -- I think it'll deter players. Players, they haven't been named, and I don't think they will be named, but players don't want that. They don't -- they don't want that on their -- on their resume, and I think that'll kind of stop a lot of that, really, to be honest.
TAPPER: All right. Donte Stallworth, always great having you here. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it.
As millions brace for extreme heat this weekend, why warmer temperatures can contribute to your body aging faster. You'll want to hear this one. That's next.
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[17:52:36]
TAPPER: Our law and justice lead now. Today, disgraced former Republican Congressman George Santos of New York reported to federal prison to start his seven-year sentence on charges of wire fraud and aggravated identity theft. Santos pleaded guilty last summer to the schemes related to his 2022 campaign that also resulted in his expulsion from Congress, which is a rare event. Santos appeared on a number of podcasts this week to say farewell for now, to share his fears about prison, to express remorse for his crimes, and to of course, express hope for a last minute pardon from President Trump.
In our health lead, this summer's extreme health isn't just miserable, it's taking a hard toll on our bodies. New research shows high temperatures can even affect how we age. Let's bring in CNN Health Reporter Jacqueline Howard.
Jacqueline, tell us what exactly is happening to our cells in extreme heat.
JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH REPORTER: Jake, this new research shows that extreme heat can actually accelerate aging in our cells, and that's because extreme heat can stress the body. So your body is working overtime to cool itself down when you are in high temperatures. And researchers came to this finding when they looked at data on more than 3,600 adults, these are adults ages 56 and older, the researchers looked at blood samples taken from the adults, they looked at the climate where the adults lived. And the researchers found, Jake, that the adults who lived in places that experienced at least 140 days of extreme heat each year, those adults aged up to 14 months faster than those living in places with fewer than 10 extreme heat days each year. And the researchers measured extreme heat as being greater than 90 degrees Fahrenheit.
But Jake, the researchers say this really shows how the climate, the environment can impact your biological age. Biological age refers to how well your cells and tissues function, and that was a major finding in this study, Jake.
TAPPER: For people living in those areas with extreme heat, what can they do to slow the aging process?
HOWARD: It comes down to being mindful of the time you're spending in the extreme heat. Definitely be outdoors when it's cooler in the day and avoid the hottest parts of the day.
[17:55:00]
But also, Jake, separately from that, there are things we can all do to slow aging. Number one, exercise regularly. Number two, eat a healthy diet, maintain a healthy weight. Don't smoke. Smoking accelerates aging.
Limit your alcohol intake. And get quality sleep and regular sleep. Try to go to bed around the same time, wake up around the same time. These are all things we can do to hopefully maybe add some years to our lives, Jake.
TAPPER: All right. Jacqueline Howard, thanks so much. Appreciate it.
Just moments ago, President Trump was asked straight up was he briefed that his name was in the Epstein files. Trump said no. Now that contradicts what sources have told CNN and many, many other outlets. So what now? We're going to go to CNN's Chief White House Correspondent Kaitlan Collins next.
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TAPPER: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. This hour, Ghislaine Maxwell apparently answered every question her attorney says anyway.
