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The Lead with Jake Tapper

DOJ Interviews Ghislaine Maxwell For Second Day; Protesters In Israel Call For End Of War As Starvation Crisis Grows; Doctor Says, Direct Link To Alcohol Use In 44,000 Breast Cancer Diagnoses Each Year; Source: Maxwell Was Granted Limited Immunity To Talk To DOJ; Tariffs Disrupt Growth Of Ohio Sneaker Accessory Brand. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired July 25, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.

This hour, Ghislaine Maxwell apparently answered every question, her attorney says, anyway, but did she tell the truth?

[18:00:03]

The woman sitting in prison convicted of grooming children for sexual abuse by Jeffrey Epstein met with Justice Department officials for a surprise second day today. What do we know about the questions asked? What do we know about President Trump said today about a possible pardon for her?

Plus, he worked for President Bill Clinton, former Trump fixer Michael Cohen and Harvey Weinstein, so you could say Lanny Davis knows a little bit about scandal. So, how would he advise President Trump to handle the Epstein drama? Lanny will join us live in moments.

Also, breast cancer rates are on the rise. Doctors fear that alcohol could be a big reason why. What medical experts are saying now about the disturbing trend and how you can lower your risks.

And CNN gets rare access to the iconic Goodyear blimp, travel through the skies with our own Pete Muntean, who even got a chance to pilot the blimp as it marks a major milestone.

The Lead tonight, is there a potential pardon or commutation or some sort of deal in the works for notorious pedophile Jeffrey Epstein's top aide, Ghislaine Maxwell? Well, the Justice Department today is wrapping up a second surprise meeting with Maxwell, convicted in 2022 for her role in recruiting and grooming, and even participating in the sexual abuse of minors with Jeffrey Epstein. Her attorney outside court said she once again answered every single question and broke down her appeal to the Supreme Court.

Let's bring in CNN Senior Justice Correspondent Evan Perez. Evan?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake we expect obviously that this idea of a pardon is going to obviously keep the -- you know, be part of this story, in part because the president himself was addressing this morning when Kevin Liptak asked him the question this morning before he left for Scotland, and because, obviously, Ghislaine Maxwell wants to get out of prison, she is continuing to insist on her innocence and she does have an appeal that, on Monday, we expect that there's going to be a brief filed before the U.S. Supreme Court. So, this issue of whether Ghislaine Maxwell's testimony or her questioning over the last couple of days, it's, in any way, connected to an effort to perhaps get her a pardon or a commutation. Of course, it's going to be part of the story in the days coming forward.

Now, we heard from her attorney you know, after the end of the questioning today, about a half a day of questioning, here's what he had to say about how this went.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID MARKUS, GHISLAINE MAXWELL'S ATTORNEY: The government at the time promised her that promised Jeffrey Epstein that any potential co- conspirators would not be prosecuted.

President Trump is the ultimate deal-maker. He knows that a promise made on behalf of the government should bind in the government.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREZ: So, clearly, you know, David Markus is trying to appeal to the president, making clear that, you know, in the past, back in 2007, the Justice Department, he says, promised that no one no associated of Jeffrey Epstein would be prosecuted. And of course, thereafter, they did go after Ghislaine Maxwell. And he says that's one reason why this conviction should not should not continue to stand. Jake?

TAPPER: Evan, has the Justice Department said anything officially about these two days of meetings, about what's being discussed, about any of the substance here.

PEREZ: No. We heard from Todd Blanche, the deputy attorney general. One of the things he said was in the -- coming soon, they're going to -- when it's appropriate, they're going to say what the substance of this was. We don't know what the questions were and all, even Jake, what the terms of these two days were.

And so the question remains whether anything that Ghislaine Maxwell provided in the last couple of days is useful for the Justice Department for her perhaps to investigate further. Is there something else that the deputy attorney general believes needs to be looked at before deciding whether to move on from this?

TAPPER: CNN's Evan Perez, thanks so much.

Meanwhile, President Trump has touched down in Scotland for his five day private visit to his golf resorts, but even overseas, he cannot escape questions about the Epstein files

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Mr. President, were you briefed on you name appearing in the Epstein files, ever? DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: No. I was never briefed on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Saying he was never briefed. Let's bring in CNN's Chief White House Correspondent Kaitlan Collins. Kaitlan, this new comment from the president directly goes against reporting from CNN, The Wall Street Journal and many others that he had been briefed back in May by the attorney general.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: And, Jake, I should note, after CNN and The Wall Street Journal and others reported that very fact, White House officials did not deny it and neither did the Justice Department. Instead, they actually confirmed it on background and said, yes, that our reporting and others was accurate. That the president was told during a briefing with the Attorney General Pam Bondy and other top DOJ officials a few months ago, that his name was included in the Epstein documents.

[18:05:02]

Now, obviously we've made clear time and time again that doesn't necessarily mean anything. It certainly doesn't mean wrongdoing. We don't really know how substantive these references to President Trump are in those documents. But the White House confirmed it, Jake. They said that, yes, that was accurate. And they described it as a standard briefing that the attorney general was doing. So, that's why it makes it all the more notable to hear the president out there now saying, no, he was not briefed on that.

Obviously, maybe he has a different recollection, but, certainly, given the high interest from his own team on this, his MAGA base, as we've seen how they've erupted over how his administration has handled this, that seems to be something that would -- one would recall given just the importance of this.

And so, obviously, Jake, this comes as the president has been outraged by the coverage of this today. He repeatedly said that people should stop talking about the Epstein files, and if they're talking about it, it only should be in regards to former President Bill Clinton or others that have also been named, as in these documents or in birthday greetings to Jeffrey Epstein. Jake, it really just speaks to this moment that we're in, where we're seeing the president denying a briefing that we have confirmed that he got and the White House officials did not deny.

And also as his deputy general attorney general has been meeting with Ghislaine Maxwell with no clear outcome of what that meeting is going to result in, Jake, I mean, the president was asked about potential pardons today by my colleague, Kevin Liptak, this morning. Then again, he said tonight that it was not the time to be talking about that. But he is not ruling it out, Jake. And what's very clear that is what her team is interested in here, because that's really the only thing they're seeking, either a pardon or a reduction in the sentence that she's currently serving. TAPPER: And, Kaitlan, this has now been nearly a month of nonstop questioning about Epstein for Trump. What are you hearing the conversations are like behind the scenes at the White House?

COLLINS: It's funny, Jake, to watch how this has evolved in terms of when this was initially coming out. I was in the cabinet room when the president was so dismissive of questions to Pam Bondy about this, saying he couldn't believe people were still talking about Jeffrey Epstein. And we've seen how the White House thought, oh, it's going to die down, it's not going to be a big story. The president is often pretty successful at changing the narrative when it's something like that's dogging his administration, but he's been unable to shake this Jake. It's not just, you know, from media reports or from Democrats who are focusing on this. House Republicans have been consumed by this. They all got sent home by the House speaker because of it.

And I think that's one thing that had flabbergasted White House officials that I spoke with was to see how much this was just out of control. And still the fact that we are weeks later here and they're still answering questions on this and aren't really anticipating it going away anytime soon.

TAPPER: Yes, because there were -- it's not -- you know, people talk about conspiracy theories versus conspiracies, like there actually was a horrific sex crime, sex trafficking ring by Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell that involved kids. He actually got a sweetheart deal in a plea in 2008. And there are dozens, if not hundreds of these girls, now women who want justice. I mean, that's all just factual whether Donald Trump has anything to do with it or not.

Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much. I appreciate it. Kaitlan is working on new reporting for her show, The Source with Kaitlan Collins. You should look for that tonight at 9:00 Eastern right here, only here on CNN. See you then, Kaitlin.

Let's bring in Bill Brennan, former attorney for the Trump Organization. Bill, President Trump said this morning, he's not thought about a pardon for Ghislaine Maxwell. Why would a pardon be a good idea at all?

WILLIAM BRENNAN, PHILADELPHIA CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I don't think it would be, Jake. And I think there's an erroneous assumption on the part of many people that the meeting that took place over the last two days was initiated by the Department of Justice. I don't know who did it, but I can tell you from 38 years of practicing criminal defense law on the federal court system, I would bet serious money that this meeting was initiated by the defense.

You know, what I believe to be an erroneous assumption that the only shot Ms. Maxwell has is some type of clemency, commutation or pardon is not correct. There is a rule of criminal procedure, Rule 35B, and it fits into this scenario perfectly. It's for someone who has protested their innocence and proclaimed their innocence, went to trial, gotten convicted, and then said, wow, I'm facing 20 years. It's time to really tell the prosecutors what they want to know. And I think that's what's been going on the last couple days. I think that the defense requested this meeting. I think that because Todd Blanche or anybody in the government can't just waltz into Ms. Maxwell's cell and say, give it up. She has a right to remain silent and she's got a pending appeal. She has a Fifth Amendment right generally asked specifically.

So, I think that probably there's a hope that she gets a 35, which is a means of reducing a sentence.

[18:10:01]

And I think when her attorney said today, you know, look, deals were made way back when and she got prosecuted and shouldn't have, that's probably part of his direct appeal. I think he's playing every card he can play, but, you know, this is who asked whom to the prom. I believe the defense requested this meeting.

TAPPER: Well, either way, it's unusual, you will acknowledge, that the deputy attorney general is the one going down to Tallahassee to meet with this person.

BRENNAN: I will acknowledge that and I agree with that. I won't agree that the meeting itself is unusual if it occurred under the scenario that I presume it did. To have the number two man and the DOJ go down is unusual. But when you think about the high-profile nature of the case, the fact that the president knew this individual at some point, and this is his former attorney, who he trusts, and also I think the line prosecutor that handled Ms. Maxwell's trial is no longer with the DOJ. When you plug all those factors in, it's not that unusual.

And, you know, this parsing of the response today in Scotland about, well, this isn't the time to talk about pardons, and parsing it into, well, does that mean there will be a time, I think that is a waste of time. If we look just at the immediate past president, he said unequivocally, repeatedly, that he wouldn't pardon his son, and in the last six hours of his presidency, he pardoned his whole family.

TAPPER: Yes. I mean, yes. Well, let me ask you, there are thousands and thousands of documents having to do with the Epstein case. It's a horrible case. It's a horrific case. No doubt --

BRENNAN: Horrible, terrible, agreed.

TAPPER: No doubt, there are -- there's lots of hearsay in this documents. There's lots of document and lots of documentation that would just raise more questions, like the financial stuff. Do you think -- would you like to see as many documents as possible released as long as the names of the victims and the witnesses are redacted?

BRENNAN: Under your question, as long as it doesn't further victimize the victims, absolutely. You know, Jake, I was thinking about this. I don't know what's in those files. We know that the president knew this man until he had a falling out with him and threw him out of Mar-a- Lago. But in the criminal law, there's a jury instruction that says, mere presence or mere association is not any evidence of criminal behavior on the person's part who's simply merely present.

You know, this is what I was thinking about today. Jake, you and I are both Frank Sinatra fans.

TAPPER: Yes.

BRENNAN: When he testified before the Nevada Gaming Commission, when his license was in jeopardy because he took a photograph with some alleged underworld figures at the Westchester Theater, during that testimony, which is televised and available on the internet, he showed photographs with Anwar Sadat, Menachem Begin, President Reagan, Mother Teresa, you know, Harry Truman. Knowing somebody is not enough. If the president's name comes up because he knew him, and we know that he did know him, that's evidence of absolutely nothing.

TAPPER: Right, of course. No, he knew lots and lots and lots of people. There's innocent names in those files. There also might be some people who are guilty of something. We don't know. We don't know what's in them. Bill Brennan --

BRENNAN: Absolutely.

TAPPER: -- always good to see you.

BRENNAN: And it's important to remember you mentioned that sweetheart deal. It's important to remember, and he did. Epstein hit the lottery in '08 when he got that slap on the wrist. But it's important to remember that is many, many years before Donald Trump was actively in office anywhere.

TAPPER: As far as I know, he was a Democrat at the time, Donald Trump.

Bill Brennan, thank you so much.

BRENNAN: I think he was.

TAPPER: I appreciate it.

BRENNAN: Thank you, Jake.

TAPPER: My next guest says, most, if not all of the information in the Epstein files is probably going to get out whether President Trump likes it or not. So, how would crisis manager Lanny Davis suggest that this White House handled the growing scandal? I'll ask him.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:15:00]

TAPPER: In our Politics Lead, I'm starting to get the impression that President Trump doesn't want you to think much about his previous connections to Jeffrey Epstein as evidenced by weeks of trying to change the subject, his comments to reporters earlier today, for example.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: People should really focus on how well the country's doing, or they should focus on the fact that Barack Hussein Obama led a coup, or they should focus on the fact that Larry Summers from Harvard, that Bill Clinton, who you know very well, and lots of other friends, really close friends of Jeffrey Summers, should be spoken about. Because, you know, Jeffrey Epstein should be spoken about and they should speak about them because they don't talk about them. They talk about me. I have nothing to do with the guy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So, I'm not sure if that worked in getting people to change the subject. But let's bring in crisis manager and Attorney Lanny Davis. He served as special counsel to President Bill Clinton during the impeachment. He represented Trump's former fixer, Michael Cohen. He's an expert on crisis communications.

And, Lanny, I am old enough to remember the book you wrote in 2002, after the Clinton years, when you -- after you advised that president, and he did -- you know, he was impeached but not convicted and he went on to leave office fairly popular. That book was called, Truth To Tell, and the subtitle is the most important part. Tell It Early, Tell It All, Tell It Yourself. And I assume that's advice you would give to President Trump today?

LANNY DAVIS, LEGAL CRISIS MANAGER AND ATTORNEY: Yes, because it's coming out anyway, and no matter what President Trump does to change the subject, at some point, those files are going to get released. I would have said to him from day one, hold a press conference, tell the attorney general bring over the files and hand them out in the press room. And then if you want to say anything about your name being in those files, just say, I knew the guy.

[18:20:02]

I thought he did terrible things. I'm sorry that my name comes up in the same context.

TAPPER: Well, he doesn't say sorry, but --

DAVIS: He may never say sorry, but he at least acknowledges what he knows is coming out anyway. And, by the way, that's a one day story as opposed to what he's now doing.

TAPPER: Well, he does seem to be dragging it out, and he has been instructing people, House Republicans, and then just -- you just saw him instructing, reporters or whoever, don't talk about this, talk about X, Y, Z. Does that ever work?

DAVIS: So, I don't blame him so much because everybody has that instinct. You try to change the subject if it's bad news. It's an instinct since your mom caught your hand in the cookie jar to deny something that you're going to sooner or later have to admit. So, it's not going to work. Every time he says, let's talk about somebody else or something else. It just reminds everyone he's got something to hide. It's not going to be terrible that his name comes up in those files. If he had just said that in the beginning, you and I wouldn't be having this conversation.

TAPPER: Yes, I mean, we should note, first of all, Jeffrey Epstein knew lots of people including Bill Gates and Bill Clinton and others. Donald Trump tried to name some of those people today. Also, just because he knew them doesn't mean anything untoward happened. Also, even if people are saying things in the files, it could be hearsay, it could be false. We don't know. We don't know what's in there.

You know Todd Blanche. He represented Donald Trump when you were representing Michael Cohen in the hush money case. What do you think of him as a lawyer and what do you think about him as deputy attorney general meeting with Ghislaine Maxwell?

DAVIS: Well, first of all, as a lawyer, I respect him. He's a great lawyer. I have only met him a couple of times. He's doing his job for the president of the United States, so I have no criticism of what he's doing. I still ask President Trump, why not just tell the attorney general, go release the files and let's get this over with, and then Mr. Blanche wouldn't be interviewing anyone. We wouldn't be talking about it tonight.

I would like to mention that there are young women who are the victims.

TAPPER: Yes.

DAVIS: And those are the young women who are reliving those nightmares because of this being an extended story. And we should be worried about them too.

TAPPER: And those women got the short end of the stick for any number of reasons. But also when when Jeffrey Epstein got this sweetheart plea deal in 2008. They weren't even told. They weren't even notified even though there is this, you know, victim's bill of rights. And the prosecutor said that's because they don't -- they were federal prosecutors and they don't have to do it for a state charge.

But I know a lot of them right now, at least according to Julie Brown, who did so many great reporting on this from the Miami Herald, are really worried that another Epstein associate, Ghislaine Maxwell, is now going to get some sort of sweetheart deal. They don't want her pardoned. They don't want her being treated as a victim.

DAVIS: And they're suffering the memories right now as they keep hearing about this, and at least the president of the United States and myself and everybody else should remember what happened to them and the consequences they're paying for the rest of their lives.

TAPPER: Yes. Well, one of them perhaps the most outspoken one, Virginia Giuffre, who was -- you know, she brought lawsuits and such, she took her own life in April. I mean, you know, the crimes took place 15, 20 years before. I mean these are unbelievable, painful experiences.

I think one of the things -- one of the reasons I will to have to assume the best faith, I think that a lot of people want these files out there because they think that there are a lot of people that got away with crimes and they want them exposed. And I see no reason why that shouldn't happen.

DAVIS: Well, again, just as a professional, not political, President Trump has a lot of things to say about his record, a lot of important issues. I'd like to just bear witness to what's happening in Israel to dying and starving children.

TAPPER: Yes.

DAVIS: And I'm a very pro-Israel. Jewish American, and I wish that could be our topic.

TAPPER: We're going to be -- and that's the next block. We're going to be covering that, yes.

DAVIS: And I'm not supposed to say anything critical about Israel the way I was brought up, but now I am saying, taking a chance here, changing the subject, but it's on my mind. But that's what President Trump should be focused on. And this file issue is simply prolonged because he didn't follow the advice. That is a hard advice to take. If it's bad news, if it's something in there that he's worried about, it's hard advice to say, Mr. President, you should be the one to put this out yourself. So, that's the advice, and it's hard advice to take.

TAPPER: Those victims deserve justice. Lanny Davis, thank you so much. We are going to be covering that issue right after this commercial break. We're going to be talking to somebody with UNICEF and we have a report from the region.

Coming up, the struggle to get these trucks packed with food and supplies into hunger-stricken Gaza, where people are dying of hunger. Why can this aid not get in? We'll tell you more.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:25:00]

TAPPER: In our World Lead, tens of thousands of Israelis protested in Tel Aviv this week, calling on the Netanyahu government to end the starvation of the Palestinian people in Gaza, as new images illustrate the dire hunger crisis manmade in the region.

Here's CNN's Jeremy Diamond. And a warning, some of the images in this report are quite disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (voice over): As starvation tightens, its grip on Gaza, the most vulnerable are the first to find themselves in its clutches. Amid months of Israeli restrictions, three-year-old Mohammad weighs just 13 pounds. His cries speak to all that he is lacking. Mohammad suffers from a muscle disorder, but with physical therapy and the right nutrition, his mother, Hedaya, said he was healthy, active, and could sit upright. Not anymore. His small body has shed six pounds in short order.

[18:30:02]

If there's food, we eat. If there isn't, we have no power except to rely on God. Some days, we go one or two days without eating.

Gaza's hospitals are filled with babies like Mohammad and worried mothers like Hedaya, who are doing all they can to prevent their babies from becoming the next statistic.

At least 54 people have starved to death in Gaza just this week, according to the Palestinian Health Ministry. It's impossible for women to breastfeed without food. How is a mother supposed to build immunity?

There seems to be no end in sight to this misery, at least not anytime soon. Gaza ceasefire talks that would've surged humanitarian aid now faltering. In its place are only the smallest flickers of hope. The World Central Kitchen has been able to reopen some of its kitchens. And facing global outrage, Israel agreeing for the first time in months to authorize airdrops of food aid into this ocean of despair.

Amid those images of starvation that we are seeing in Gaza, this is one of the largest anti-war gatherings that we have seen in Israel, and you can see behind me the people who are reflecting what is happening in Gaza, people who are dying while trying to get food inside Gaza, or simply not being able to get food at all.

Many here are Palestinians with Israeli citizenship.

SHADAM ABO YOUNIS, RESIDENT OF SAKHNIN: Because it was important to raise our voices in front of everyone and to show that we are always here and we always stand for Gaza. And, yes, we want this to end, the war end.

DIAMOND: There are also Jewish Israelis here, part of a small but increasingly vocal minority who believe Israel's actions in Gaza are criminal.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think also people are starting to realize what's being done in their name. And things are starting to leak into the Israeli media, which were hidden away.

DIAMOND: Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Sakhnin, Israel.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: And our thanks to Jeremy Diamond for that report.

Let's bring in Joe English. He's a communication specialist for UNICEF. Joe, Israel, the government, is now saying that they're going to allow airdrops of food into Gaza. The U.N., of course, warns that airdrops are dangerous, also expensive. We see images of aid sitting in Gaza. Why is that aid not getting to the Palestinian people who need it? What is preventing it from going?

JOE ENGLISH, COMMUNICATION SPECIALIST, UNICEF: (INAUDIBLE).

TAPPER: We're having audio problems with you, Joe. Hold on one second. Joe, hold on one second. We're going to, we're going to squeeze in a quick break and then we're going to come back to Joe to get his -- to get that important interview done.

We'll be right back. Thanks for bearing with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:35:00]

TAPPER: In our Health Lead, breast cancer rates amongst women are on the rise. Doctors say alcohol could be the reason why.

CNN Medical Correspondent Meg Tirrell sat down with an expert and a breast cancer survivor to learn more about the risks and what they want every woman to know.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALICIA KOERBER, BREAST CANCER SURVIVOR: Every time I'd go to like the, you know, the cancer centers, I was young. Like I was like by far, you know, younger than everybody by like 20 or 30 years.

MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Alicia Koerber found out after her first mammogram at age 44 that she had breast cancer.

KOERBER: How? How is this even possible? Like I'm healthy, I'm young, I take care of myself, I work out, you know, do all the things that you assume you're supposed to do.

TIRRELL: Testing showed she had no elevated genetic risks for cancer, so Koerber and her doctor discussed what environmental factors could play a role. He mentioned one that surprised her, alcohol.

KOERBER: I feel like alcohol is socially part of everyone's life, going out with family, you know, going out for dinner when you're at home, like having a glass of wine while you cook and working in the city and you know, possibly going out for drinks after work with friends. When you're young, you don't think that that's something that could potentially, you know, have a long term effect on you when you're older.

TIRRELL: Her doctor, Sam Nardello, at Tufts says Koerber is not alone.

DR. SAM NARDELLO, BREAST CANCER ONCOLOGIST, TUFTS MEDICINE: It's so socially acceptable to have a couple cocktails on the weekend, but we don't really attribute that to the real risk that it is.

TIRRELL: A surgeon general advisory in January sounded the alarm.

VIVEK MURTHY, FORMER U.S. SURGEON GENERAL: There is a causal link between alcohol and seven types of cancer, including breast cancer and colon cancer. But what is also clear is that the majority of Americans do not know about this link between alcohol and cancer.

TIRRELL: And data show women have been drinking more over the past few decades. Researchers say the trend is most evident in women with higher levels of education and could be driven by having kids later and by more marketing of alcohol to women. Doctors worry, this could be leading to more cancer diagnoses. Breast cancer rates have been rising by 1 percent a year.

NARDELLO: Over a quarter of a million women are diagnosed with breast cancer in the U.S. And that's too much. That's way too high. 44,000 of them, there's a direct correlation between alcohol and then developing the breast cancer.

TIRRELL: Better detection could also be playing a role in rising breast cancer rates. Nardello notes, it's not possible to know if alcohol is the direct cause of anyone's cancer, but he recommends cutting back.

What about if, you know, you went to college in the 2000s and everybody was drinking a lot, and as a 40-year-old you're like, uh-oh, I should stop now, does that help reduce your risk?

NARDELLO: It does help reduce your risk. And that's nice to hear. There needs to be more research on what that is, but I'd say it's never too late.

TIRRELL: The latest research suggests that risks for breast cancer rise even with one drink a day, the longtime recommended limit for women in the U.S.

As a result of her diagnosis, Koerber says she's made some big changes.

KOERBER: I know it's difficult when you're working and you've got, you know, young kids and, you know, you take your health and put it kind of to the backseat and having, you know, this conversation and hearing more about the surgeon general's warning, I think -- you know, I think, ultimately, consuming less alcohol, you know, just makes a whole lot of sense.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[18:45:02]

TIRRELL (on camera): And we are expecting the U.S. dietary guidelines, including for alcohol to be updated at some point this year. It's unclear as of now exactly what they'll say. Jake?

TAPPER: All right. Meg Tirrell, thank you so much.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TIRRELL: Turning back to our World Lead, Joe English, the communication specialist for UNICEF, joins us again. His audio issue is hopefully fixed.

Joe, I was asking you about these images, first of all, the horrific images of people starving to death in Gaza. But then we also simultaneously do see images of aids sitting in big containers not being taken to the people who need it. Why not? What is stopping them?

ENGLISH: Yes, Jake, good to be with you. Look, I think there are no words that I have that can do anything as powerful as the images that we're seeing of these young children, 18 months old with their ribs showing, you know? And one of the misconceptions, I think, is that when the U.N., when we talk our issues, our challenges in terms of accessing people, that it just stops at the border, but that's not the case, as well as getting aid into the Gaza Strip.

[18:45:01]

We also need to be able to get aid across the Gaza Strip to children, to families, you know, many of whom are so weak now, and that means that we have to, you know, we have to coordinate with the -- with the authorities.

And when we call on parties to the conflict, we're not just calling on a single party. We are calling on all parties, all actors, to allow us to do our job. And that means allowing fuel in, allowing critical communication supplies in so that our convoys can do their work safely, and de-conflicting roads. You know, when any of us see the images of Gaza, you can understand why it can take up to 20 hours for what should be a simple aid delivery to take place.

SCIUTTO: Is it only because of the Israeli authorities, or is it also because of Hamas? Is it also because of other groups? What -- who is -- who is saying? Obviously, the Israelis are preventing aid and gas and other things from getting into the country.

But once it's in there, is it just the Israelis, the Israeli military stopping the transfer, or is it -- is it other groups?

ENGLISH: No, it's a combination of factors, you know, and we've been clear on this from the get-go. You know, yes, we need to coordinate with the Israeli authorities, all of our missions are coordinated with them. Many of them are either delayed or denied, but it's also the parties, you know, on the ground. It's also, you know, communities, desperate communities who are who are often overrunning supplies before they can get to the areas where there's the most need.

But the way to address all of this is to allow aid in at scale so that communities aren't as frustrated, aren't as desperate. And the U.N. laid out just this week, a 30-day plan. And as part of that, we believe that if aid is scaled up and we're able to reach people where they are, we can reach 98 percent of the target audience of malnourished children, 98 percent in 30 days. You know, we have to be allowed in to do our jobs.

TAPPER: Tell us what you're hearing from your UNICEF colleagues on the ground in Gaza. ENGLISH: Jake, it's absolutely heartbreaking. I cannot think of

another situation. And I've done this work for quite a while where I've spoken to my colleagues and they are hungry. They go to bed hungry, they wake up hungry, they go to work trying to save the lives of malnourished children hungry.

You know, in these images that we're seeing, this should not be happening in the 21st century. And it certainly shouldn't be happening somewhere where plentiful food is just a matter of miles away.

I mean, the picture of 18-month-old Muhammad, as I said with his ribs, I've got twins not much older than that, and I think any parent can imagine just the absolute impossibility that their parents are feeling. You know, one of the joys of being a parent is watching your child grow, watching your child, you know, their chubby little faces and watching your child waste away in front of you and having to make the choice of, you know, potential death or injury in terms of going to some of these distribution sites or watching your child, you know, the energy fade from their eyes in front of you. It's an impossible choice.

TAPPER: It's just awful.

Joe, joining us from UNICEF, thanks for joining us today. We really appreciate it.

ENGLISH: Thanks, Jake.

TAPPER: We do have some breaking news on our law and justice lead. A source telling CNN that Jeffrey Epstein's convicted accomplice, Ghislaine Maxwell, was granted limited immunity to talk to Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche. What does that mean?

Let's bring back CNN's Paula Reid.

Paula, what does it mean? What do we know?

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: So, this is the least surprising thing we've learned about these meetings. You would never sit a client across from the deputy attorney general of the United States without some form of protection. Here, she received what we expected, which is limited immunity, which means, depending on what she says to them, if she exposes herself to any potential legal jeopardy, she cannot be charged.

Well, it's limited because it does not cover lying to the FBI. Lying to the FBI, law enforcement, that is a crime. And this cannot protect you from that.

Now, her lawyer insists she answered all her questions truthfully, and all of these answers can be corroborated. But this again, this is standard operating procedure, Jake. It's one of the few details we've gotten out of this whole arrangement, but you would never, ever put a convicted client who is appealing their case across from the Justice Department without this in place. TAPPER: All right. Paula Rreid, thank you so much. And we're going to

look for much more on this story coming up on Erin Burnett, coming up at the top of the hour, just a few -- just a few minutes away.

Our small business series takes us next to Ohio and a company dedicated to helping you get the most out of your shoes. How have tariffs impacted their prices? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:53:21]

TAPPER: Now we're back with our "Business Leaders" series, where we hear from small business owners about the impact of President Trump's tariffs.

Proof Culture, based in Cleveland, Ohio, is a one stop shop for all my fellow sneaker heads out there. Their products include shoelaces, storage boxes, crease protectors, and much more.

Founder Richard Brown is with me.

Richard, I am coming to you from a room full of sneakerheads, my crew here.

What part of your business is being impacted by tariffs specifically?

RICHARD BROWN, FOUNDER, PROOF CULTURE: Yeah. First, hey, just thanks for having me on the show, Jake. It's really -- it's an honor and a privilege especially to be with my tribe of sneakerheads. So, thank you.

My business is impacted in every which way, right? The reality is this in this trade war, my business is collateral damage. It's introduced chaos and unpredictability into my business, which makes it really difficult for me to plan. I feel like I'm running right now, running a small businesses, like working a job, and you don't know how much your paycheck is going to be week to week.

Sometimes 10 percent comes out for income tax, sometimes it's 50 percent. And how do you run your household like that? What if it's 150 percent, right? Now, you're operating in a deficit and you've got to make some really tough decisions, whether its laying people off or shutting your doors.

TAPPER: How are you weathering the cost? Have you had to lay people off? Have you had to raise prices?

BROWN: So, I have had to lay people off. As far as prices, you know, I take a lot of pride in the fact that we have not raised our prices. But the reality is those prices that cost it shows up in different ways.

[18:55:00]

I either -- I have to delay products that I want to launch or jobs that I wanted to create this year that's on hold and, you know, more frustratingly, is, you know, my dream opportunity, my dream partnership with my very own Cleveland Cavaliers. I've had to delay it because I just don't know how much my goods are going to cost when they arrive. So, it's not just about raising prices, it's also about the reality of opportunities and growth being on hold.

TAPPER: Obviously, President Trump has made it clear that one of the reasons he's doing this is to bring manufacturing back to the United States. I don't even know the answer to the question about sourcing products in the United States. What kind of options are there for you?

BROWN: I've tried. I've found some manufacturing that makes products similar to what I have, or close enough that I might be able to, you know, establish my supply chain there. And the reality is they can't make it at the quality that I need and or the cost is higher than my customers are willing to pay. But more often than not, they just can't make the quality that I need. They're not set up to make my products.

I even tried moving my supply chain to Mexico.

TAPPER: Yeah.

BROWN: And that wound up being a really painful experience because, you know, I worked on it for months. I anticipated the tariffs coming. And then the reality is I looked up one day on the on the news and I saw that our free trade situation changed. And, you know, I got quality -- products that were quality that I really couldn't sell to my customers. And I wound up with a tariff bill.

TAPPER: All right. The brand one more time for anybody that wants to support our friend Richard Brown here, Proof Culture. They're located in Cleveland, Ohio. Proof Culture.

Richard, thank you so much for joining us.

BROWN: Hey, thank you, Jake.

TAPPER: Internationally, 10,000 planes and more than half a million people in Wisconsin this week for the world's biggest air show.

CNN aviation correspondent and enthusiast Pete Muntean got rare access to one of the most recognizable aircrafts.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Thank you. How's it going?

Good.

I'm about to do something pretty cool and very rare. I think I'm one of the only reporters to ever take a flying lesson in the Goodyear blimp.

ADAM BASARAN, GOODYEAR AIRSHIP PILOT: Are you nervous?

MUNTEAN: A little bit, yeah. This is totally different than what I'm used to, so don't judge me too hard.

I'm at the world's biggest airshow in Oshkosh, Wisconsin. There are 10,000 planes here. Three quarters of a million people. The busiest swath of airspace in the world right now, you can see down there, that's the North 40. That's where I'm camping with my plane. And maybe the biggest and most unique flying machine here is the blimp.

BASARAN: All right. So when you're ready, I'm going to give you the controls.

MUNTEAN: Okay. I'm ready.

BASARAN: You have the control.

MUNTEAN: I'm going all over the place. Yeah.

This is a hoot. It feels like I'm driving a bus. You put in the controls, and then you kind of wait and wait and wait. And then it does something. And then it does a lot.

This is the hundredth anniversary of the Goodyear blimp, which is maybe the most successful aerial advertising campaign of all time.

BASARAN: Would you like to see some of the maneuvers the ship can do?

MUNTEAN: Heck yeah.

BASARAN: So you can make the blimp wave, and just rock back and forth like a boat, right?

MUNTEAN: So, I just did an air show maneuver in the blimp.

BASARAN: Yep.

MUNTEAN: Cool.

BASARAN: Lower the nose down. Close to 30 degrees of pitch.

MUNTEAN: Okay.

I feel like I'm looking straight down.

BASARAN: But you're going up, right?

MUNTEAN: But --

BASARAN: You want to try a 360-degree spin?

MUNTEAN: Sure. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

BASARAN: So, you're just going to go all the way left?

MUNTEAN: Yep.

BASARAN: There you go. And then if you get a sync, you're adding some -- MUNTEAN: Power. It's kind of like turning an elephant around. I mean

for such a huge thing, it's pretty maneuverable.

BASARAN: It is.

MUNTEAN: I took it for granted. It looks like the blimp is so graceful and bumbling through the air, but it's really, it's quite the flier. I'm surprised.

BASARAN: It's fun to play.

MUNTEAN: Yeah, it's totally fun to play.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MUNTEAN: Okay, so the blimp is clearly the star of the show here at EAA Airventure Oshkosh in Wisconsin, probably the 20th time I've been here. But the first time that two Goodyear blimps have been here over the skies of Wisconsin, two of the three that are based here in the U.S.

My friends, are white, hot with jealousy about this. They're so sick of hearing me say the blimp is very maneuverable, not very responsive. The bottom line and I have the shirt to prove it. Blimp ain't easy.

TAPPER: Yeah, it's hard out here for a blimp.

Pete Muntean, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

MUNTEAN: Yeah.

TAPPER: Coming up Sunday on "STATE OF THE UNION", Director of the Office of Management and Budget Russ Vought, Republican Senator Markwayne Mullin of Oklahoma, and Democratic Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona. You will see me Sunday morning at 9:00 Eastern, and again at noon here on CNN on that show.

Until then, you can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, Threads and on TikTok @JakeTapper. You can follow the show on X @TheLeadCNN.

If you ever miss an episode of THE LEAD, you can listen to the show whence you get your podcasts.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now. I'll see you Sunday morning.