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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Sources: Ammo, Loaded Revolver Found In Gunman's Car; Source: NYC Gunman Held On Psychiatric Hold In 2022 & 2024; Investigations Searching For Answers In NYC Mass Shooting; Gunman Kills Four In NYC Building Where NFL Offices Are Located; NYC Gunman Claims To Have CTE" "Study My Brain. I'm Sorry"; Justice Dept.: House Oversight CMTE Rejects Ghislaine Maxwell's Request For Congressional Immunity In Exchange For Her Testimony; Maxwell Offers To Testify Before Congress Under List Of Conditions, Including Immunity; Justice Dept. Expected To Ask NY Judge About Release Of Grand Jury Transcripts After FL Judge Denied Request; Group Requests All DOJ Communications About Epstein & Maxwell; Rep. Julie Johnson (D-TX), Is Interviewed About Some Dem. Reps Could Lose Their Seats With New TX Election Maps; Jury Deliberating Fate Of Colorado Dentist Charged In Wife's Death. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired July 29, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): Epstein, many years ago, they were running buddies. I don't know the details of it, but my own personal opinion is that he's not involved. But it sure doesn't.

I don't -- and I don't know this for a fact, but it certainly does appear, or one could marshal a persuasive argument, I'll put it that way.

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Sure.

KENNEDY: That there's some very important people involved. And --

HUNT: All right.

KENNEDY: -- the American people are curious, and they're entitled to be curious. And justice can't just say, well, you've got to trust us. You know --

HUNT: Yes.

KENNEDY: -- that's -- they're -- they put --

HUNT: Senator --

KENNEDY: -- they dug up more snakes than they can kill by some of the things they've mishandled.

HUNT: Yes.

KENNEDY: And they've just --

HUNT: Fair enough.

KENNEDY: - they show the receipts.

HUNT: I don't want to cut you off, but unfortunately, it is time for me to hand over to my colleague, Jake Tapper. So, thanks to you. And hi, Jake.

KENNEDY: Tell Tapper to pay his taxes.

HUNT: I hope that made air? It did? Yes.

[17:01:00]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Thanks, Kasie.

Searching for answers about the Manhattan mass murders, The Lead starts right now.

The investigation into that deadly New York City office building rampage is now shifting to Las Vegas as police begin to trace the killer's final steps. Today, new details about the gunman's weapon, his suicide note, and how surviving employees hid from the killer. Plus, an audacious demand from Ghislaine Maxwell, the woman serving 20 years in prison for grooming young teen girls for Jeffrey Epstein and friends. Ghislaine Maxwell offering to give her testimony to Congress, but only under certain conditions. She has demands, Ms. Maxwell.

How House Republican chairman is responding to her demands. That's ahead.

And don't mess with Texas, one person said as residents get a say in Republican efforts to redraw the maps. Hear from a Democratic congresswoman who could very well lose her seat if her GOP colleagues get their way.

Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.

We're going to start with the national lead today. Brand new details about that gunman's rampage in an office building in midtown Manhattan yesterday afternoon where he murdered four innocent people and left one in critical condition before taking his own life. Today, New York police are dispatching teams to Las Vegas, where the killer is from, and drove across country just days before the murders. We're now seeing images of how employees inside 345 Park Avenue, their office doors barricaded with couches, once they learned an active shooter was inside. This all unfolded yesterday evening just as the workday ended.

Police say the gunman walked into the lobby of this skyscraper brandishing his weapon and just opened fire. He shot an off duty police officer who was working security. He shot a woman as he entered. Then he went to the elevator where he shot a security officer and another man. The gunman then let a woman coming down the elevator escape the scene unharmed before taking that elevator up to the 33rd floor where he fired his rifle again, killing another woman and then shooting himself in the chest.

A source told CNN that the gunman had a note in his pocket expressing grievances with the National Football League, which has offices in that Park Avenue building. The note alleging that he suffered from CTE, Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy. It's a disease linked to head trauma often associated with football players. The gunman reportedly writing in the notes, study my brain. I'm sorry.

A source tells CNN's John Miller that the gunman was placed on a psychiatric hold in 2022 and 2024. We know that the surviving victim of the attack, who is now critically injured, is an employee of the NFL. And today a memorial has formed outside 345 Park Avenue for the four victims who were killed. NYPD officer Didarul Islam was one of them. He was off duty.

He was working security for the building. Islam leaves behind two young sons and a pregnant wife. He was his father's only son. The family imam and neighbor telling media today that Islam's father suffered a stroke upon hearing the tragic news of his son's death. His fellow officers and bystanders lined the streets as his body was moved to the medical examiner's office.

City officials are hailing him as a hero.

Also killed Wesley LePatner, an executive at Blackstone investment firm, a wife and a mother. Her company described her as brilliant, warm and generous. LePatner was an alumna of Yale. She served on multiple philanthropic boards.

Also now identified as a victim is Julia Hyman, an employee of Rudin Management Company, the owner of the building. She was a 2020 graduate of Cornell University, a Manhattan native, a daughter and a sister. A professor from Cornell, remembering her as an extraordinary student with a commitment to learning.

Aland Etienne was the security guard who lost his life on the job. His union president called him a New York hero who took his duties extremely seriously.

[17:05:02]

Horrible, horrible news. May all of their memories be blessings.

Let's go now to CNN's Shimon Prokupecz, who's outside 345 Park where the shooting took place last night. Shimon, what does the scene look like today?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: So just in the last few moments, Jake, they've been boarding up the front of this building where the shooting take place, where it all started. There's still shattered glass. And so just in the last hour or so, they've had some workers show up, and they're started to board it -- board it up. It's been a busy afternoon here. A lot of people walking by.

The building itself has been closed. The other thing that's been significant, I was here this morning, are, and this has continued through the day, crime scene investigators are still here from the NYPD, which tells you just how extensive the work that they're doing inside continues. I mean, you know, we're approaching 24 hours now, and the crime scene investigators are still inside working this case. TAPPER: What more do we know about who the shooter was or this potential motive?

PROKUPECZ: So there are still a lot of questions, Jake, and this investigation is far from over. But from what the police have released, we know a lot significantly that they are investigating now another individual who may have helped the shooter purchase parts of the gun. That is something that authorities are now investigating. That is why they're in Las Vegas. So that is under investigation.

There is also his mental health. We have learned that there were two mental health holds in the Las Vegas area, one in 2022 and one recently in 2024, had something to do with his erratic behavior, and he was held on by authorities there for 72 hours. We don't have much more on that. We don't know what happened, what ultimately happened to him. But throughout that process, it appears, Jake, that he was allowed to remain a holder of a permit to carry a concealed weapon and also purchase weapons.

The question now is, did any of this trigger anything from gun owners who -- or gun shop owners or anywhere along the line, were there any triggers? And so all of that is still under investigation, Jake.

TAPPER: What information are investigators still looking to uncover?

PROKUPECZ: So, a lot about the gun purchases, that is one key thing. They're looking at this friend that may have helped him allegedly purchase some parts of this weapon that was used. The other thing is the medication. And what does all of this mean and his claims of CTE? Will anyone investigate that?

Will they take his brain? That's what they're going to need to do. And will any medical examiner, will any scientist look to see if in fact he was suffering from that? Clearly, something was going on in this man's life. And where along in his -- where in his life did he reach out to anyone for help?

Were people aware of what was going on? And really, ultimately the goal of all of this is were there any missed signs? Were there anything that people could have done from authorities to friends to family to have prevented this? And what was this fascination? I mean, clearly investigators believe that the target here was the NFL.

And where did that come from? What was this thing in his head about the NFL? So a lot still to learn. And you know, as you said, Jake, this investigation is stretching out wide. The key thing now for this city is they're going to have to mourn this police officer and funeral arrangements are underway for that officer.

TAPPER: All right, CNN Shimon Prokupecz, thanks so much.

Let's bring in my experts to unpack more of this investigation. Juliette Kayyem, former DHS Assistant Secretary, and Andrew McCabe, former Deputy FBI Director, joining us now.

Andy McCabe, let me start with you, so sources are telling CNN's John Miller that the shooter left extra ammunition, a loaded revolver, medication, cell phones and even more in his car at the scene. What do you think investigators will be able to glean from this in terms of his plans, his motives and who he was?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes. So the vehicle that the shooter takes to the scene is often a source of a lot of interesting evidence for the investigators. Sometimes, and I think this case -- this is the case here as well, there are electronic devices there. I heard there were numerous cell phones recovered from the vehicle and potentially other things.

So those are a great sense -- a great source of intelligence about what this guy was thinking about, what he was researching online, who he was in contact with, sort of propaganda or material that he was viewing. So that's all going to be important to investigators. The fact that he has another weapon gives investigators another entire investigative lead. So they're going to look into the purchase of that weapon. When did he get it?

[17:10:11]

How does that purchase possibly overlap with or contradict with his now known mental health history of having been potentially committed? Was that -- so was that pistol sold to him in a manner that it should not have been? Was that a violation of federal firearms laws? You know, it's -- of course, it's illegal to sell a firearm for a license dealer to sell a firearm to someone who's been adjudicated a mental defective, that's the language from the statute. So there's all sorts of angles that are going to allow the investigators to really see more deeply into this person's life and understand those motivations and that plan that he executed yesterday.

TAPPER: What did the next steps of this investigation look like, Andy?

MCCABE: So you're going to see the search warrant, if it hasn't already happened, at its residence in Las Vegas. The car will, of course, be seized. I'm sure it's already been taken off the street. They'll get a warrant to search that thoroughly in the NYPD automobile impound area. We know that they're sending teams out to Las Vegas to participate in the searches and also to pursue this line of investigation about the firearms purchases.

So in addition to the loaded Colt.357 Python that you see in that box that we're showing right there, that's the butt of that gun. We also know that he -- the AR15 that he was carrying, he actually assembled himself. He was able to purchase the necessary parts for that rifle and put it together. This is not something that's particularly hard to do. There's tons of tutorials out there on the Internet that show people how to do this, purchasing the important pieces like the receiver, like the trigger apparatus, like, of course, the barrel, all these different parts that need to go into it, pretty easy to do at gun shows, as long as you are not a prohibited purchaser.

Quite frankly, the traffic in parts of weapons is very loose right now. And for people with a little bit of knowledge, that enables some of them to avoid the problems that they might ordinarily have purchasing weapons. So it's a bit of a loophole in our gun laws.

TAPPER: Juliette, this office building, 345 Park Avenue, seemed extremely secure. Not only that, the shooter reportedly double parked his vehicle in a busy New York City street, walked up to the building like this. We're showing this image now with him just holding the assault rifle in his hand. It is, on its face, it seems odd, in an area as populous as midtown Manhattan, in a building as secure as this, that he still was able to walk in, get into the elevators and do as much damage as he did.

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: That's exactly right. I'm looking at the timing. This is an interesting case. So this is after 5:00 p.m. so what we want to know is was there greater security up to the typical workday, although we know that the people at these firms work much later. And does it decrease into this -- did he know this?

Did the suspect know this? The second is just a very odd piece picking up on what Andrew said, which is presumably a long term attempt to assemble the gun, a drive across country and then at least as far as we know, almost no knowledge of the building. If he was essentially going after the NFL and employees of the NFL, which we have every reason to believe, he sort of misses that. So that gap is just something to that. It suggests he had never been to the building before.

He had not been staking it out. So there's a lot of questions about the security presence during the day and whether it had changed as well as whether he had done any casings or had been to the building before.

I want to say just the NFL thing. This does strike me as the second, at least based on the motives, we're reporting on incident in which someone suffering from a physical or mental dis -- ailment and this -- this is self-identified, he's saying he has CTE, we don't actually know it, is going after the corporation they view as responsible for it. So you had UnitedHealth a couple months ago and now the NFL, not a health agency, but one that he at least viewed as responsible for his brain injuries. And so it's just something that we have to be aware of as, as these cases are, you know, now we have two in a relatively short period of time.

TAPPER: All right, Juliette Kayyem and Andrew McCabe, thanks to both you.

[17:14:36]

Coming up next, the CTA -- CTE condition this gunman mentioned in the suicide note, how likely is it that he was actually suffering from CTE? He played football, but it was only to the high school level. We're going to talk to Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta, who's a practicing brain surgeon. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: We're back with our health lead, the search for answers as to why this gunman opened fire in a Manhattan office tower last night, killing four innocent people, injuring another. Investigators are pouring over a suicide note found in the murderer's car. Sources say the suspect said that he suffered from CTE and asked for his brain to be studied. When he committed suicide, he shot himself in the chest, presumably to keep his brain intact. New York City Mayor Eric Adams spoke about this earlier today with CNN's Wolf Blitzer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC ADAMS, NEW YORK MAYOR: The motive appeared to be connected to the shooter's belief that he was suffering from CTE and he was an ex-NFL player. Those items just don't pan out. He never played for the NFL. And so we're still unraveling this terrible shooting that took place in the city.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Let's bring in CNN Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta, who to remind you, he's also a practicing neurosurgeon. That means a brain surgeon.

[17:20:02]

Sanjay, we know that the gunman did play football through high school, but not after that. It is possible, I suppose, to get CTE just from having played in high school and not college or the NFL, but it's more rare, right?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I think that's a fair way to put it. I mean, it is interesting. I think what a lot of data is starting to show is that there may be some people who are more vulnerable to CTE, so with a shorter career and fewer hits, even, they still develop CTE compared to somebody who's had a long career and more hits who never developed CTE. But there was a study that came out a couple years ago, 2023, basically looking at people under the age of 30, 17 to 29, these were all people who were worried that they had CTE and they donated their brains, 40 percent of those, Jake, tested positive for CTE, and the youngest person was 17 years old. We know this man was 27 years old.

And Aaron Hernandez is a name that often people think about with regard to CE. He was also 27 at the time that he died by suicide, Jake.

TAPPER: The NYPD commissioner says that the gunman, quote, "Has a documented mental health history," unquote. How could that play in here to his supposed belief that he suffered from CTE? I suppose one could have caused the other or --

GUPTA: Yes.

TAPPER: -- vice versa, right?

GUPTA: Yes, it's a little bit of a chicken and egg thing. But you know, I can tell you, Jake, reporting on this for more than a decade now, it's still a relatively new diagnosis and oftentimes confused. People who have CTE are often thought to just have mental illness, they don't have any indication, at least initially, of the underlying CTE. We know there's all sorts of symptoms that are associated with CTE that can be confused for other things, cognitive problems, memory loss, sometimes confused for Alzheimer's, for example, impulse control problems, depression, suicidal behavior. As people get older, sometimes CTE is even confused for Parkinson's disease because people will develop problems with their movement.

The brain's on the top there, Jake, in this image that you're looking at, that's a brain with CTE. It is very classic, it can only be definitively diagnosed on autopsy. Repeated blows to the head cause these proteins to essentially be released into the brain, and that causes the degeneration associated with this. Bottom brains are normal. So you can -- really, anybody can see the difference there, and that's probably what's going to be examined over the next days, Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks so much.

Coming up next, that audacious offer today, offer from Ghislaine Maxwell. She's sitting in prison doing 20 years convicted of grooming young underage girls for Jeffrey Epstein and friends to sexually abuse and rape. The list of conditions Ghislaine Maxwell is demanding in exchange for her testimony to Congress, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:27:15]

TAPPER: In our law and justice lead today, a rather bold offer or demand by Ghislaine Maxwell today denied. Her attorney said, yes, she would give her testimony to Congress, but only a list of conditions. Let's get right to CNN's Chief Legal Affairs Correspondent, Paula Reid.

Paula, the House Oversight Committee chairman, James Comer of Kentucky, he issued a subpoena last week for a deposition from Maxwell. He wanted that to happen on August 11th. That's less than two weeks from now. Walk us through these conditions that she's demanding. And we know how the committee said no.

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So it's pretty clear she's not going to do this on August 11th. But it appears, unlike her previous statements through her lawyer, where they said, no, we're not going to answer to that subpoena, they do appear willing to broker a deal. Now, the conditions list begins with a grant of immunity. This is something that the committee has already made clear they're not going to do.

Remember, they have to appeal to constituents here. So any indication that they're trying to give immunity or protection to a convicted sex trafficker isn't going to fly. She's also saying this cannot be at Maxwell's prison, the interview that is. She wants the questions in advance and would only do this after the U.S. Supreme Court case is resolved. Now, she filed an appeal to the Supreme Court. We don't know if they're going to take it up, but we could possibly wait until June to get an answer there. She says if these conditions are not met, she will invoke her Fifth Amendment right. Now, interestingly, her lawyer once again offers sort of a fast track to get her in front of lawmakers through clemency. He says, of course, in the alternative, if Ms. Maxwell were to receive clemency, so a pardon or commutation from the president, she would be willing and eager to testify openly and honestly in public before Congress in Washington, D.C. look.

TAPPER: She also wants the questions in advance, right?

REID: Yes, because you don't want any surprises. I get, she's has a lawyer.

TAPPER: Question in advance.

REID: He's doing a good job zealously advocating for his client. But as I said, this is a convicted sex trafficker. Teenage girls have testified how she recruited them, groomed them, sexually abused them. Any lawmaker who appears to be cutting her some slack or trying to reframe her as the victim here, that is going to do nothing to quell this political firestorm.

TAPPER: There's also the Justice Department. So last week, we know they went to the judge in Florida to have the unsealing of the grand jury transcripts from the case in Florida. So Bondi, the attorney general and her deputy, they haven't yet reached out to the -- to the other judge in New York. I thought they'd already done that, no?

REID: So they made a request for grand jury materials in the 2007, 2005 era down in Florida and the more recent ones in New York. In Florida, the judge just said, nope, this is not going to happen. In New York, the judge looked at these arguments which say, this is all about the public interest, and said, you know what, this is not going to cut it.

[17:30:00]

This is not enough to warrant an exception to the default that this is confidential material. So here the judge has given them an opportunity until later today to present additional arguments but, you know, TikTok, Todd Blanche, we are still waiting for these arguments. They are due by the end of today.

TAPPER: All right. Paula Reid, thanks so much.

Let's go over to the round table and bring in Norm Eisen. He's a senior fellow at the Brookings Institute and executive chair at Democracy Defenders Fund. It's a group that filed a Freedom of Information Act request trying to get all the information from top DOJ leadership on Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. Norm, thanks for being here. So I want to read part of your Freedom of Information or FOIA Act request.

In addition to all communications including letters, faxes, e-mails, voicemails, direct messages, you're also requesting, quote, any code name, code word, pseudonym or cryptonym used for identifying Jeffrey Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell. Way to -- I mean that's a great way to cover your bases. It has been one week since your -- your first FOIA request. Have you gotten any kind of response, even just a confirmation?

NORM EISEN, SENIOR FELLOW, BROOKINGS: Jake, we have had some back and forth and as the story has continued to evolve, we've done additional FOIA requests. We have seven in total now. If the Department of Justice and the U.S. government doesn't come forward with all of these files, then we're prepared to litigate that at the Democracy Defenders Fund.

And Jake, you and I have been friends for a long time. I've done a lot of these FOIA cases. There's something unique here. The government always says we have to protect material. It's in the public interest. Here, they filed with that judge in New York, Judge Engelmayer, and they've said the most sensitive material, grand jury materials protected by 6E must be revealed in the public interest.

So we've said to the government, well, how much more so the rest of these files? We need the truth, all the truth to come out, let the chips fall.

TAPPER: So your group's a non-profit. What -- what do you hope to accomplish with this request, just getting all the documents out there?

EISEN: Jake, this is one of the most shocking stories we heard Paula talk about. This is about underage girls who were abused by Jeffrey Epstein. And Donald Trump had a long-running relationship with Mr. Epstein and even joked to the press about Epstein's predilection for young women.

TAPPER: Now, we should note that he said that in 2003 or 2002, actually, before Epstein's house was even raided in 2005.

EISEN: But after years of the abuse that -- that had occurred --

TAPPER: But we don't know what Trump knew, just like we don't know what Bill Clinton knew, and he was friends with him as well.

EISEN: There's no question, but we know that Trump made a reference to it. We know they had that long-running relationship.

TAPPER: Right.

EISEN: And Jake, that's all the more reason. Let's put these Trump- Epstein files out there. Let's see what's in the records. Let's get all the records out --

TAPPER: Oh, sure.

EISEN: -- with protection, obviously, for the child victims.

TAPPER: For the victims, yes. EISEN: There's no reason not to bring this scandal to an end. Let's see what's out there. And then we can all evaluate what the President did or did not know.

TAPPER: So you used to be a CNN legal analyst. Put your CNN legal analyst hat on right now for this question. So we know that the Justice Department asked the judge in Florida to unseal the grand jury transcripts, as you just mentioned. That judge said no, which is expected. That's pretty much the -- what judges do. They say, no, you can't -- you can't read the grand jury transcripts. They're now going to go to a judge in New York, make the same request. Is it likely that that judge will also say no?

EISEN: I think that Judge Engelmayer is unlikely to produce these grand jury materials in full. It may be that the public interest test is established for parts of it. I think under the Freedom of Information Act rules, there is a compelling public interest. So I do think we are going to see some of these materials come out.

I know on our side at the Democracy Defenders Fund, we're prepared to litigate because there is a paramount public interest in getting to the truth of this matter. That's why we're talking about it day after day is such a shocking scandal. You're right. Maybe Donald Trump had no knowledge. Maybe those Trump-Epstein files that "The Wall Street Journal" has reported A.G. Bondi told Donald Trump about, maybe they're benign, but let's see him. The American people are entitled to have that information.

TAPPER: So if the New York judge, Engelmayer, says no, is there another judge to go to? I mean, let -- let me also just posit that like Pam Bondi and Donald Trump right now, President Trump could just decide we're going to release these files, FBI files, Treasury files, Southern District of New York files, Southern District of Florida files have at it. We've redacted the names of the victims go to it and they won't. But is there another judicial avenue for them to pursue?

[17:35:03]

EISEN: Yes. Our FOIA requests will be perfected. And later in August, if we do not get these files, we are prepared to go to court and open another judicial avenue. The Freedom of Information Act allows you to go to court when it is in the public interest to get information out there.

Jake, the Department of Justice has filed with the courts saying the 6E material, the grand jury material, the most protected material is in the public interest to get out there. That is an admission that we will use to get all these files before the American people.

TAPPER: Interesting. All right. Well, the best disinfectant is sunlight, as they say. Norm Eisen, thanks so much.

Coming up, what's turning into a big old mess down in Texas. Republicans want to redraw congressional maps. Democrats say, hold up a minute. Today, the public had its chance to weigh in. You're going to hear some of that. Plus, hear from a Democrat who could lose her congressional seat over the efforts of her Republican colleagues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[17:40:31]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You should have said four words to the governor. Don't mess with Texas.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Don't mess with Texas, in our Politics Lead today. Today, Texans got a chance to weigh in on efforts by Republicans to reshape their congressional districts to try to seize more Republican seats from the few Democratic seats left. Let's bring in one of those Democrats, Congresswoman Julie Johnson.

If Republicans get their way, her seat in Dallas and its northern suburbs just might be eliminated. Congresswoman, are you going to have a congressional district in 2026?

REP. JULIE JOHNSON (D-TX): Well, who knows? The Republicans haven't had the courage to actually drop a map and release it. You know, they've had all these hearings, these redistricting hearings. We had one last night here in the Dallas, Fort Worth area that had, you know, just a ton of people show up for on no map because this is really a sham process for them and they haven't released the map.

So we'll see. It's going to be very difficult for them to squeeze five Democratic seats and turn them into Republican seats without materially weakening all the Republican seats around us.

TAPPER: So you've used an old Southern adage to this whole ordeal. You say a pig gets fed, a hog gets butchered. I had to have that translated. Apologies. I'm from Philadelphia. So I guess it means Republicans potentially overplaying their hands. That's a hog getting butchered. And then also you note that there's -- in addition to possibly weakening safe Republican seats in Texas, Democrats are now talking about redrawing their maps. California, New Jersey, Missouri is actually a Republican state, but -- but some other. Explain that. Do you think that Democrats need to -- to meet the Republicans at their own game?

JOHNSON: Absolutely. You know, this is -- this is the war for the future of our country and the soul of our democracy. You know, what the Trump administration has done is kick millions of people off of health care, make a bunch of seniors and veterans and kids go hungry, and they've obliterated due process and through our immigration actions that they've been taking.

And so this is all out war for what does our country stand for and where are we going in the future? And so, you know, I'm all for fair and independent maps as long as we're all playing by the same rules. But if Republicans want to do partisan gerrymandering in states like Texas and Florida and the like, then Democrats need to do the same in blue states like California to level out the playing field.

We can't go forward given the state of our country with our hands handcuffed behind our back and not playing by the same rules. It's just not OK anymore. So this is -- I think there's an old Abraham Lincoln quote, when times are anew, the calls of actions are anew, and it's time to have a fresh look at things.

And so that's kind of where we are. And -- and to your point of our wonderful Texas expression, a pig gets fat and a hog gets butchered, that's exactly right. You know, Republicans are going to be greedy about these seats. There are millions of Democrats in the state of Texas. You know, I won my congressional seat by 24 points. You know, my colleagues, Jasmine Crockett and Marc Veasey also appear in North Texas, won by even greater margins than that.

So to have the great displacement of all these Democrats and reallocated to Republican districts, that's going to substantially weaken them. And so it's, you know, it's a thing that a lot of my Republican colleagues, you know, they tell me quietly off to the side, they don't want this. This is not anything of interest to them.

But this is Trump having a desperate attempt to try to, you know, keep the House when he knows he's way underwater in our poll numbers, and he's likely to lose it as a fair election.

TAPPER: Let me ask you about your party in general. You're -- you're a more moderate Democrat in Texas. Nationwide, it seems like there's a lot of energy with the -- it's not even progressives, it's literally Democratic Socialists. And I'm wondering if you worry at all about the growing influence of the progressive wing, Democratic Socialist Zohran Mamdani, he could be the next mayor of New York City. He -- he won the Democratic primary there.

The Democrat Farmer Labor Party endorsed a Democratic Socialist for mayor of Minneapolis instead of the city's sitting Democratic mayor. Are you worried about that at all?

JOHNSON: Well, you know, obviously, you know, I don't personally subscribe to the Socialist line of thought, but, you know, Democrats, we're a big tent and we're a party that is inclusive for all the folks. We don't have to agree on all the issues. You know, my folks, I come from a more moderate area and that's why they've elected me to represent their values and folks that have a more left progressive wing, they may elect somebody different and that is all OK.

[17:45:15]

There's room for all viewpoints within our party and in our caucus. And that's what I think makes the Democratic Party vibrant and robust and sometimes a little chaotic at times versus we don't all have to step in line and -- and believe the same thing and keep our tune to the same to the same -- to the same note as the Republicans do.

TAPPER: All right, Congresswoman Julie Johnson from the great state of Texas, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

JOHNSON: It's so good to see you again. Thanks for having me.

TAPPER: The Venezuelan makeup artist who was deported to El Salvador and spent four months in the notorious CECOT mega prison is describing the psychological toll the ordeal has taken on him after his release. Andry Hernandez Romero was freed from that prison July 18th along with about 250 other Venezuelans who had been deported from the U.S. to El Salvador in exchange for 10 U.S. nationals who had been held in Venezuela.

Romero, who is now back in Venezuela, his home country, told California Democratic Congressman Robert Garcia, he's struggling to process his life moving forward after what he went through in prison.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDRY JOSE HERNANDEZ ROMERO, SPENT 4 MONTHS IN CECOT PRISON (through translator): Well, legally speaking of everything that is happening, there are many things I don't understand. There are many things I still haven't been able to process because of the psychological damage they have caused us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Andry originally came to the U.S. legally in 2024 seeking asylum, but then he was detained during the Biden years and then deported to El Salvador by President Trump's administration.

His legal term -- legal team is telling the U.S. that Andry is still figuring out his next stapes -- steps in his immigration case.

Coming up, did a Colorado dentist kill his wife by poisoning her protein shake? What jurors heard from the prosecution and defense just before deliberations, that's next.

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[17:51:31]

TAPPER: In our Law and Justice Lead, jury deliberations are underway in the trial of James Craig. He's the Colorado dentist accused of killing his wife by poisoning her protein shakes. Craig faces six felony counts, including murder in the first degree solicitation to commit murder in the first degree, solicitation to commit perjury and solicitation to commit tampering with physical evidence. He has pleaded not guilty to all charges. CNN's Jean Casarez has been following the story. So, Jean, what was the prosecution's final argument here?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they're still deliberating, by the way, in Colorado. They have not stopped yet. But the prosecution focused on for about an hour and a half so many things. But they really took, which is the most critical of all the elements of first degree murder, deliberation and intent and put it together with what they say are the facts that for 10 days he researched poisons. He researched undetectable poisons.

He then placed orders for them. He then received them. And then he caused her death by administering them to him -- to her. We know arsenic. We know potassium cyanide. We know he went out one night and bought 12 bottles of Visine the next night, seven more because tetrahyzoline is in it. And then also oleander he actually didn't get.

Law enforcement intercepted it. But here is part of the closing argument of the prosecution.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL MAURO, SR. CHIEF DEPUTY DA: This guy is not trustworthy or credible. He spent 10 days killing Angela Craig. And he could have stopped on day one or day two or day 10. He kept going.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: What makes matters worse for him are these other charges, tampering with physical evidence, solicitation of that and also perjury solicitation. He was trying to get inmates that were going to be out to plant some notes, get some friends to say that Angela wanted to commit suicide. And that is the defense here, that she was broken because of this serial adulterer.

She had just had it. And it got to the point where she asked him to research these poisons and to get them. And he said, look, this is on you. I'm -- I don't want you to do this. But he finally gave up and allowed her to kill herself. Here's the defense.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LISA MOSES, ATTORNEY FOR JAMES CRAIG: There is so much that's just missing and you can't speculate about what's going on in those missing minutes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: And so he's facing life in prison. The jury will continue to deliberate. And, you know, Jake, you know, when you think about this, this is real life. These are people that could be living down the street from you, next door neighbors. It's not fantasy. It's real life. And it's shocking.

TAPPER: Yes, I mean, it's especially shocking. Top five undetectable poisons that show no signs of foul play as a Google search history. I mean, that is just wild. I mean, how -- how does a defendant overcome something like that?

CASAREZ: Well, I think it's tough. The defense tried to show all the things that were not tested. They never found the potassium cyanide. They didn't test a lot of the laptops. They didn't find her most recent diary. But I think that. If there's one chance for him, if there is a juror who had someone in their family commit suicide, they could relate to it.

[17:55:04]

There could be a jury nullification here. And I think that's farfetched. But you'd never know what a jury is going to do.

TAPPER: Yes. I -- I just think at some point, murderers, I mean, the -- the Google searches are quite interesting.

CASAREZ: Yes.

TAPPER: Jean Casarez, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

CASAREZ: Thank you.

TAPPER: A somber scene just moments ago in New York, a procession for that fallen NYPD officer did a rule Islam, who was killed in yesterday's office shooting Manhattan bagpipes playing as his fellow officers watched as his remains were moved from the medical examiner's office to a mosque in Bronx -- in the Bronx. We'll have new details coming in on this tragedy, ahead.

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