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The Lead with Jake Tapper
Trump Cites Fake Numbers, Ignores Real Ones To Justify Actions; Trump Pushes Conspiracy Theory About A "Rigged" Jobs Report; WH Defense Firing Of Senior Labor Official After Jobs Report; Sources: DOJ Has Audio Recording OF Ghislaine Maxwell Interview; Rep. Ro Khanna (D-CA) Is Interviewed About House Oversight Committee Subpoenas DOJ For Epstein Files; Rep. Mike Lawler (R-NY), Is Interviewed About Hochul Declares "War" Over GOP's Plans For Texas Maps; Suspect In TN Killings Caught, Ending Weeklong Manhunt. Aired 5-6p ET
Aired August 05, 2025 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Think it's horrible. I think it's horrible. And I hope a lot of people do get to see it as bad as it is, because I think it's a horrible thing.
[17:00:07]
Yes, behind you, please.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President --
TRUMP: Yes?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- can you speak to just how, you know, this drop off in foreign born workers is going to benefit Americans and will it force American companies to pay fairer wages to American workers?
TRUMP: Well, we want to take care of our American workers and first and foremost, and that's what we're doing. We also want to help our farmers because our farmers are producing like never before. We have to help them. And we're working out some very complicated strategies and language.
But the main thing that I think I was elected to do is to get the illegals out of our country who are especially in particular, criminals, 11,888 murderers were allowed into our country with Biden's open border policy, with our border czar who never spoke to the border patrol, never went to the border one time. That's Kamala. And think of it, we have murderers. We have people coming in from all countries all over the world, from prisons, from prisons in the Congo, in Africa, from prisons all over South America, all over rough parts of Europe, all over Asia, they're pouring into our country. Not anymore.
So we just announced we had our third consecutive month where we rated zero people. And these are frankly very liberal people that make up these charts. So I don't know what's wrong with them. They seem to not be doing their job for the Democrats. But I'm honored by the fact that they say it.
We're very tough on the border and people can come into our country, but they have to come in legally. So I think that we've done an amazing job, actually. But we want -- we have to get the criminals out of our country, murderers, drug dealers, gang members. They emptied prisons into our country. It's one of the reasons, I think even beyond the economy, it's one of the reasons I got elected.
It's really maybe the number one. It was between the economy and that. But you know, as I said before, our nation is doing really well, but we have to get these really bad people. They should have never been allowed in our country. Open border policy is for fools. We're the only country in the world with an open borders policy, but we don't have that anymore. We had zero now for three months in a row.
Peter.
PETER: Thank you very much, President Trump, nice to see you got off the roof all right.
TRUMP: Yes. Yes.
PETER: You said this morning that you probably won't be running for a third term. This weekend, Secretary of State Rubio said that he thought J.D. Vance would be a great nominee. You could clear the entire Republican field right now. Do you agree that the heir apparent to MAGA is J.D. Vance?
TRUMP: Well, I think most likely, in all fairness, he's the vice president. I think Marco is also somebody that maybe would get together with JD in some form. I also think we have incredible people, some of the people on the stage right here. So it's too early, obviously, to talk about it, but certainly he's doing a great job. And he would be probably favored at this point.
PETER: If Texas redrawing their congressional map --
TRUMP: Right.
PETER: -- would get you five safe red seats means that California, New York, Illinois and Maryland are all going to redraw their maps to add safe --
TRUMP: Well, they'll do it anyway.
PETER: Is it worth it?
TRUMP: Yes, they'll do it anyway. Why? If we stop over there, they would have done it anyway.
Look, a lot of these states, you know, I watched this morning as Democrats are complaining and they're complaining from states where they've done it. Like in Illinois, like in Massachusetts. I watched this lunatic, Pocahontas, she's a total lunatic. I don't know what she's on. She's all jumping up and down like, I've never seen anything like it.
Talking about supporting the communist mayor. And he's not a socialist, he's a communist. OK? This is not a socialist man, this is a communist. If you look at any of his policies and go back six months, you don't have to go back further than that.
So they want to put a communist in New York. Now, the good news is we have a lot of power over that because we're the ones with the money. We send the money, we don't send the money, it's up to the White House. A lot of power in the White House. But when I watched her jumping up and down talking about that and supporting the communists.
But if you look at what's going on with the redistricting or whatever you want to call it, the Democrats have done it long before we started. They've done it all over the place. They did it in New York. They did it in a lot of different states. But in Massachusetts, o somebody used this as an -- as an example today, I was interviewed this morning, and they said, you know, it's pretty unfair, Trump got 40 percent, I'm not proud of that, but I think I probably got more, but that's OK, I got 40 percent in Massachusetts, and yet they have 100 percent of the vote in terms of Congress.
So there's no Republican, there's no anything. So I should -- we should have 40 percent. You know why? They redistricted. And they've done it all over the place.
[17:05:00]
And they've done it in California, by the way. Before this they've done it in California. So we'll see what happens. We have a wonderful governor in Texas. He feels strongly about it.
It's going to be up to him. I think there's tremendous support for it. And, you know, we've watched the Democrats destroy our country in four years. They've destroyed, between their open borders that we talked about, transgender for everybody, all of the horrible things that they've done. High taxes, horrible medical provision for people.
We've watched them destroy our country for four years. And people don't want that. And people in Texas, as you saw, I got the highest vote in the history of Texas. I love Texas. Texas likes me, obviously, but I got the highest vote.
And that was checked out on the show. Did you see that where they checked it out? They said, he actually did get the highest vote in the history of Texas, which disappointed them. They were very disappointed to hear that. But Texas is a place that's done very well with a free enterprise kind of an attitude, with the exact opposite of what's happening in New York with a communist mayor.
And they know what they're doing and they're doing the right thing.
Yes?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two questions for you, can you --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, thank you.
Texas Senator John Cornyn -- Texas Senator John Cornyn is asking for your help to force Democrats back to the state and hold them accountable. Do you want the federal government and the FBI to help locate and arrest these Texas Democrats who have left the state?
TRUMP: Well, I think they've abandoned the state. Nobody's seen anything like it, even though they've done it twice before. And in a certain way, it almost looks like they've abandoned the state. It looks very bad.
Yes, go ahead, please.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: FBI get involved? Should the FBI get involved?
TRUMP: Well, they may have to. They may have to know. I know they want him back. Not only the attorney general, the governor wants him back. If you look, I mean, the governor of Texas is demanding they come back.
So, a lot of people are demanding they come back. You can't just sit it out. You have to go back. You have to fight it out. That's what elections are all about.
Yes, please.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Thank you so much. President Trump, two questions for you. One, did you -- were you aware of and did you personally approve the prison transfer for Ghislaine Maxwell that your Justice Department --
TRUMP: I didn't know about it at all. No, I read about it just like you did.
COLLINS: And do you believe that she is --
TRUMP: It's not a very uncommon thing.
COLLINS: Do you believe that she's credible to be listening to? Your deputy attorney general sat down with her recently.
TRUMP: Well, he's -- let me tell you, he's a very talented man. His name is Todd Blanche. He's a very legitimate person, very high. I just have very highly thought of person respected by everybody, and I didn't talk to him about it. But I will tell you that whatever he asked would be totally appropriate and it's not an uncommon thing to do that.
And I think he probably wants to make sure that, you know, people that should not be involved or aren't involved or not hurt by something that would be very, very unfortunate, very unfair to a lot of people. But I will say this, Todd Blanche is one of the most highly respected people you'll ever meet. So I know this. I didn't discuss it with him, but anything he talked about with her or the fact that he did that, not unusual, number one. And most importantly is something that would be totally above board.
Please.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President --
TRUMP: Yes, please, go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- release pardon, Mr. President --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thanks. Mr. President.
Mr. President, how much more would you like DOGE to cut from the federal government?
TRUMP: Well, it's not so much DOGE anymore. And by the way, I have to say that somebody from DOGE was very badly hurt last night, you saw that. A young man who was beat up by a bunch of thugs in D.C. and either they're going to straighten their act out in terms of government and in terms of protection, or we're going to have to federalize and run it the way it's supposed to be run.
But it's not a question of DOGE. We have great people, secretaries and all, working with DOGE and cutting with a, I said with a scalpel, as opposed with an axe, this cutting with a fine tooth comb. And they're getting rid of people that aren't doing their job or bad people, or bad things, bad policy, et cetera, et cetera. And I think we've been very successful in that.
And there's more cutting to do, but there's also more getting -- we want smart people in government. Our country is doing great. I think we are doing probably maybe in many ways better than we've ever done before. You know, we're taking in trillions, not billions, trillions and trillions of dollars from other countries who for years took advantage of us. They took advantage of the United States like we were children.
And that's not happening anymore. Now they're paying a lot of money, and they're paying hundreds of billions of dollars. Individual countries paying hundreds of billions of dollars. You're seeing what everybody else is seeing. And we have a lot of things we can do.
You know, one of the questions asked of me this morning is you're going to make a dividend to the people. And the purpose of what I'm doing is primarily to pay down debt, which will happen in very large quantity. But I think there's also a possibility that we're taking in so much money that we may very well make a dividend to the people of America.
[17:10:02]
Thank you all very much. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The National Weather Service, was that part of --
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: All right. Welcome to The Lead. Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. And you've been listening to President Trump taking questions from reporters at the White House.
You heard our own Kaitlan Collins there asking, speaking on a range of topics from immigration to the Epstein files fallout, Israel and Gaza, the Texas redistricting fight. He said that the FBI might need to get involved to get the Democratic Texas legislators back to Texas. He mentioned that Vice President J.D. Vance is the likely heir apparent to the MAGA movement. But he said there were certainly other contenders. He made other claims not exactly rooted in fact, which brings us to our politics lead today, which is the disconnection of President Trump from facts and reality.
Today, he has been having problems with numbers and call it Trump math. President Trump has been creating his own equations when it comes to jobs numbers, poll numbers, citing fake numbers to justify actions, ignoring real ones that go against his narrative. So let's take one second to correct the record. Look at the facts.
On Friday, when the latest jobs report was released, the president fired Bureau of Labor Statistics Commissioner Erika McEntarfer. He claimed, without evidence that the jobs numbers were, quote, "rigged in order to make the Republicans and me look bad," unquote. He claimed they were also rigged around the 2024 election, that they were made to look, Kamala Harris and President Biden made for them to look good right before the election.
This morning, he did an interview on CNBC. He called in and the president was asked again about this unprecedented firing. And this is how he tried to justify it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Just days before the election, they put out numbers that it was like the country was on fire, was doing so well. And then they did a revision about two weeks later, and the revision was down by almost 900,000 jobs. And I said, wow, supposing I would have lost, I would have blamed that and people would have said I was a conspiracy theorist.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Wow, that sounds bad. That sounds really bad. Let's rewind the tape. Let's go back to November 1st, that jobs report released just four days before the presidential election, when, according to President Trump, the Bureau of Labor Statistics put out numbers suggesting that the country was doing amazingly with huge job creation. Here's that moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN ANCHOR: It's certainly a jarring jobs report. 12,000 jobs added for the month of October, a fraction even of what we were expecting. Even if you add the best case scenario, this does look like a softer report.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Oh, OK. So actually the bureau of labor statistics put out a jobs report four days before the election that was bad for the Biden- Harris administration. That's the exact opposite of what President Trump said. Trump also said that after he was elected, the November 2024 jobs numbers were revised downward. We looked into that. Guess what? Those numbers were actually revised upward.
Everything the President said to justify her firing to argue she was politically biased was wrong. The pre-election jobs report was bad. The post-election revision went up. And he's relying on these lies to take serious actions, which also provides some insight for us as to how the president justifies continuing with policies such as tariffs that are not popular with a broad swath of the American people.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I have the best poll numbers I've ever had. I have poll numbers where I'm 71 percent. I have the best poll numbers.
JOE KERNEN, CNBC ANCHOR: Those are among Republicans. You know you've got --
TRUMP: No. No, no, no. Among Republicans 94 percent and 95 percent.
KERNEN: Your haters say polls that have you down in the 30s, Mr. President. And, you know --
TRUMP: Yes, but they're fake polls.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: So there is no serious scientific poll ever that has shown President Trump with an approval rating in the 70s, just doesn't exist. Nor does he have an approval rating of almost 100 percent among Republicans, as he claims, although his approval rating with Republicans is high. The latest CNN poll of polls, which provides an average of the most recent credible major polls, shows that Trump's approval rating is at 41 percent. So the president doesn't know that. And that's indicative of a huge disconnect with the impressions and opinions of the public of the nation that he is leading.
Now, the president must know this to a degree, because anticipating losses in the House of Representatives in next year's midterms, he is now pushing Texas to gerrymander five additional Republican House seats. And here's how we tried to justify that this morning.
[17:15:06]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I got the highest vote in the history of Texas, as you probably know, and we are entitled to five more seats.
KERNEN: You did get the highest number of votes in Texas. So that's true. But when you talk --
TRUMP: I did. OK. And you don't have to say anything more, Joe.
KERNEN: I got to say this. TRUMP: No, don't say anything more. Don't qualify it by saying --
KERNEN: No --
TRUMP: -- I got the highest --
KERNEN: Moving on.
TRUMP: -- number of votes --
KERNEN: You did. You did.
TRUMP: -- in the history of Texas.
KERNEN: I'm moving on. I'm moving on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Wow. He just really didn't want the context explained there. Yes, he got the highest number of votes for any presidential candidate in the history of Texas, more than 6 million. This is what happens when populations grow. The percentages may go up or down, but the numbers of people voting increases.
What the president clearly did not want to hear there was that in terms of the percentage of the people voting for president in Texas, which is a much more relevant metric given population growth. President Trump did really well. He got 56.1 percent of the vote, but that ranks 15th historically when it comes to people running for president and winning Texas, 15. Great numbers. Nothing to scoff at, but Trump math makes it better. And Trump math is used to justify Trump decisions, decisions rooted in falsehoods.
CNN Chief National Affairs Correspondent Jeff Zeleny is here to discuss.
Jeff, is there anyone in the White House who is even trying to tell the president, no, no, she didn't do that with the jobs numbers right before the election. That's incorrect. I mean, is there anyone there? I know in the first term there was, John Kelly, H.R. McMaster, John Bolton. But in the second term, is there anyone there?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: As far as we can tell, no. I mean, and we did significant reporting since Friday on the firing of Erika McEntarfer, and as far as we can tell, there was no serious attempt made to stop that firing. In fact, some of his economic advisers were trying to explain the jobs numbers, that they weren't quite as bad as they seemed. But then someone else, Sergio Gore, who's the chief loyalty enforcer, the head of presidential personnel, he said she's a Biden appointee.
TAPPER: OK.
ZELENY: And that is what President Trump seized upon. But look, the bigger point here is the Trump math. It doesn't really matter if he got the biggest number in Texas or not, but what it does matter on is the economy.
TAPPER: Yes.
ZELENY: I mean, the revisions in the economic numbers, that is what really got under the president's skin we are told, the May numbers, the June numbers, the July numbers taken together the three months, really showing a significant slowing in hiring, no new manufacturing jobs at all. All of these jobs are in the health sector, the services sector. So that is and economic worry. So that's a bigger deal for the president if he's not being told those numbers are taking those numbers more seriously.
TAPPER: Yes. And just so people understand it, the way that these BLS numbers, Bureau of Labor Statistics numbers, happen is they survey 600,000 businesses and those businesses have to respond to these surveys. It used to be about more than 60 percent would get back to them within the first month.
ZELENY: Right.
TAPPER: Since COVID it's been about 40 percent, 45 percent. So there has been a slowing of the data, but it's not based on politics.
ZELENY: Which is why they resurvey them, which is what we should all want is accurate numbers here. The president should too, because his policy should depend on it.
TAPPER: Yes. And his policy should reflect the needs of the nation.
Jeff Zeleny, thanks.
My next guest served as the secretary of labor for President Clinton and also served in the administrations of both Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter. He's also out today with a brand new memoir, it's called "Coming Up Short, A Memoir of My America." And Robert Reich joins us now.
Secretary Reich, so good to have you on the show. Thank you so much for joining us. So I want to start with the op-ed you wrote for The Guardian today about the firing of the head of the Bureau of Labor Statistics in which you say, quote, "In one fell swoop, Trump essentially destroyed the credibility of the Bureau of Labor Statistics."
Now obviously, when you were secretary of labor, you oversaw BLS. We had two former BLS commissioners on the show yesterday and both of them disagree with you. They say the credibility of the institution is not at risk because there are still so many excellent employees. And as bad as it was to fire the head of BLS, those employees endure. Why do you disagree?
ROBERT REICH, FORMER LABOR SECRETARY, CLINTON ADMINISTRATION: Well, I hope it's the case that the credibility is maintained, Jake. My fear though is that in the future going to see that Donald Trump doesn't like messages that he disagrees with. And so he's going to fire messengers that give him messages that he doesn't like. That means that people are going to worry about the credibility of whatever comes out of the BLS in the future.
TAPPER: We're going to see an August jobs report coming up on September 5th, what are you going to be watching for in the data in the coming months to judge whether or not you assess that to be a credible jobs report from BLS?
[17:20:08]
REICH: Well, number one, the important question is whether the trends that we've seen over the last few months continue. Now, we don't expect a major change in trends, but we do expect that there will be a gradual change. In other words, the report we just had was quite disappointing relative to the typical 150,000, 200,000 number jobs. But what we really do and what's going to cause a lot of suspicion is if suddenly you have a huge increase in the number of jobs after the president has installed somebody who is giving him the kind of news that he wants.
Jake, when I was Labor secretary, one of my primary responsibilities as every labor secretary before me and most said labor secretaries, in fact, until the current secretary, was to guard the independence and integrity of the Bureau of Labor and Statistics, which is the crown jewel in the government's ability to gather statistics --
TAPPER: Yes.
REICH: -- and data.
TAPPER: The current Secretary of Labor, Lori Chavez-DeRemer, she didn't raise any red flags about the jobs report. In her initial statement on Friday, before the president got upset, she touted, quote, "consistent economic improvements across the board over the last several months, with more Americans enjoying lower prices, a booming stock market and half a million jobs created," unquote. Once President Trump posted on social media how upset he was, her tune changed and she posted, quote, "A recent string of major revisions have come to light and raised concerns about decisions being made by the Biden appointed Labor Commissioner. I support the president's decision to replace Biden's commissioner," unquote.
Obviously, administration officials are supposed to support the president and his message, but as we just discussed, yes, there is lag time since COVID in terms of those surveyed by BLS getting back, and there have been unnecessary -- I mean, unfortunate needs for revisions, although that is inherently, I think, a positive thing. It's a -- it's a government organization willing to say, hey, we have more data, so we're changing the number. How would you have reacted in this situation if you had been, as difficult as it is to imagine, if you had been President Trump's secretary of Labor?
REICH: Well, I would not be president --
TAPPER: Right.
REICH: -- secretary of Labor, Jake, but if I were in this situation, I would respond to exactly what my duty was. That is to protect the integrity and independence of the Bureau of Labor Statistics. And I would not salute Donald Trump. I mean, he -- my responsibility as a cabinet officer, when I was a cabinet officer, was not to the president of the United States, it was to the people of the United States. It was to the Constitution of the United States. It was to the integrity of the institution that the people have entrusted to cabinet members and to the president.
TAPPER: And you write about that very movingly. And I urge our viewers to check out your new book. It's called, "Coming Up Short, A Memoir of My America by Robert Reich, the former secretary of Labor. It's available now wherever you buy books.
Secretary Reich, thank you so much for joining us. Please come back soon.
REICH: Thank you, Jake.
TAPPER: Coming up next, what CNN is learning about a recording of Epstein accomplice Ghislaine Maxwell's meetings with the Justice Department and the debate happening behind the scenes on whether or not to publicly release the transcript of that conversation? Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:27:48]
TAPPER: In our law and justice lead, the Trump administration is considering releasing a transcript of an interview that the Justice Department conducted with convicted Jeffrey Epstein associate Ghislaine Maxwell last month. CNN's Paula Reid joins me now.
Paula, what could be in this transcript and when could we see it?
PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: I mean, this really could be fascinating because we know she sat down with the deputy attorney general, Todd Blanche for around 10 hours. Her lawyer has given us, really, the only details we have about what was discussed. He said that she answered questions about roughly 100 different people, but we don't know what she said. And now we're learning not only is there audio, but there's a transcript that would reveal her answers word for word.
Now, I do want to note that any transcript that is potentially released would have to be redacted to protect victims and potentially the accused. Now, our colleagues Alayna Treene, Kristen Holmes and I, we have learned that there are discussions ongoing inside the White House about whether they should release this transcript. It's also not clear if the Justice Department, she made this recording and the White House are on the same page about this decision because as we've reported. So far, their strategy with Epstein in the wake of this enormous criticism over their backtracking on a promise of transparency, the strategy, small S, has been wait and see. But today, this has come roaring back into the headlines. We are reporting with the subpoena from the Hill. So, look, the White House is under fire, continues to be under fire for its lack of transparency. And it's unlikely that the existence of this recording is going to do anything to tamp that down.
TAPPER: Am I right interpreting that the Justice Department wants to release it but the White House isn't sure?
REID: We don't have it that specific.
TAPPER: OK.
REID: We know that there are discussions, but it does seem like the White House is really the one driving the strategy here. Obviously, the Justice Department's strategy to promise more transparency then released a memo saying, you're not getting it. This comes a couple of months after the infamous binders, the bond release. Their strategy hasn't worked. So the White House is heavily involved in this, but there's two parties, right, that would have to work on this together.
And it's not clear that they're aligned.
TAPPER: And what about the grand jury from the trials of Ghislaine Maxwell and also Jeffrey Epstein? The Florida judge said no, but there was also a New York judge.
REID: That's right. The New York judge is open minded and asking for input from people like Ghislaine Maxwell. Her lawyer today filed his arguments and the gist of his argument opposing the release of this grand jury material is that pretty much anything almost can come into a grand jury. There's no defense attorney, there's no cross examination. So he said that his client, as we know, has appealed her conviction to the Supreme Court. She still has rights. She still has due process rights.
[17:30:15]
And he argues that could be violated if this material, which is by default confidential, is released. But we're also hearing from victims, and they have a very different story. Most of them are pushing for more transparency. They want protection for victims, but at least one victim says, look, I want as much transparency as possible for this, for the files the attorney general has, because we want to move on with our lives, and we want to heal. So Jake, this judge has a really difficult decision.
TAPPER: And do we have any insight as to why Ghislaine Maxwell was transferred to this minimum security prison in Texas from an -- from the more serious confinement she faced in Tallahassee? President Trump says this happens all the time. I don't think it happens all the time with people who have been convicted of child sex trafficking.
REID: It doesn't happen like this. It doesn't happen when you meet the deputy attorney general one day, and then a few days later, you get to go to this prison. I have been inside this prison with a previous attorney general on a reporting trip. It is pretty comfortable. It has been suggested to me by at least one official that there were concerns about her security, a threat on her life.
But look, we can't divorce ourselves here, Jake, from the timing of all of this, which is also what makes this transcript so intriguing, and the fact that the administration might release it. Did she say things that they think will help her? Was this her reward at this point? The administration isn't saying, and we don't know.
TAPPER: Seems a little fishy.
REID: It does seem fishy.
TAPPER: Paula Reid, thanks so much. Appreciate it.
House Oversight Committee Chairman James Comer today announced that he was going to subpoena multiple former government officials. These include former President and First Lady Hillary Clinton, former FBI Directors James Comey and Robert Mueller, multiple former attorneys general, including Loretta Lynch, Eric Holder, Bill Barr, Alberto Gonzalez. Comer is also demanding that the Justice Department release all files and testimony related to Jeffrey Epstein.
Joining us to discuss is Congressman Ro Khanna. He's also on the House Oversight Committee. He's a Democrat. Congressman, thanks for joining us. So notably absent from this list, I have to say, as somebody who's been following the story for quite some time, is President Trump's former Secretary of Labor, Alex Acosta, who as the U.S. Attorney in Florida in 2008 is the one who negotiated the sweetheart plea deal for Epstein. Do you have any insight as to why he was left out, or would you like to see him added?
REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): Be partisan. Everyone who was called should come before the committee, but we need to hear from him. We, of course, need to hear from President Trump. It should be bipartisan. And Paul Reid said the most important thing. It's about transparency. That's why Thomas Massie and I have the bill that we're going to introduce right after Labor Day, and I believe it will pass. And that's why the Justice Department should comply with this subpoena.
TAPPER: Chairman Comer says he wants the documents from the Justice Department released by August 19th. If the Justice Department doesn't meet that deadline, how do you see this playing out with an already very divided Republican Party?
KHANNA: Well, there will be a negotiation with Chairman Comer. Hopefully we can start to get the release of information. In the past, the Justice Department has often negotiated with the House Oversight Committee. But it is also why, come after Labor Day, we're going to have the bill on the floor of the House to show that there are a lot of Republicans, MAGA Republicans, who are demanding the full release, protecting the victims, but demanding the full release of information. And I think soon you're going to see many victims speaking out themselves about how this is important to them in terms of closure, in terms of transparency.
Their voices have not been centered in all of this. And I believe we need to center what the victims want. And many of them are going to say they want a release of the files.
TAPPER: And they also, I know a lot of them are worried about Ghislaine Maxwell getting a sweetheart deal in the same way that Jeffrey Epstein did. CNN is reporting that the Trump administration is considering releasing this transcript of an interview that the Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche did with Ghislaine Maxwell. You've called on the administration to be more transparent. Is this a step in the right direction if they actually do this?
KHANNA: Sure. I mean, any release is better than anything, but you have to remember that Ghislaine Maxwell has twice been indicted of perjury, that she obviously has an incentive to have more lenient treatment from the administration and even potentially to get a pardon. It was highly unusual for Donald Trump's personal attorney, who is now the number two at Justice, to do a one-on-one meeting with Ghislaine Maxwell. So I'm for all the information getting out. But this transcript in particular is suspect, and that's why we need the full context.
TAPPER: The Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon, Democrat, I think he's on the Senate Finance Committee, said that there's lots of documents at the Treasury Department. And Julie K. Brown, the excellent Miami Herald reporter who broke so many stories having to do with Epstein, she said that's what she'd like to see, because for her -- in her mind, follow the money is the real issue here in terms of finding any other perpetrators out there who have escaped justice. Would you like to see those documents released from Treasury? What else would you like to see released?
[17:35:17]
KHANNA: Well, look, Ron Wyden has been excellent on this. Frankly, he hasn't gotten enough media attention. But he has been saying, and his committee has been saying, let's follow the money. This was not just about rich and powerful men abusing young girls. This was also about illegal transfer of money, money laundering, serious charges about money laundering potentially from overseas governments. And let's follow that.
So yes, I'd like to see that released. And I'd like to see more attention on the extraordinary work that Ron Wyden's committee has been doing painstakingly on this for the past couple of months.
TAPPER: Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna of California, good to see you. Thanks so much.
KHANNA: Thank you, Jake.
TAPPER: My next guest is a Republican who previously opposed redistricting in his own state. What does he think of President Trump's claims that Republicans are entitled to five additional seats in Texas right now? We'll ask him in moments.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:40:33] TAPPER: Our National Lead now, Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton says he's going to seek court rulings to declare the legislative seats of the Democratic state legislators who fled the state on Monday, vacant if they do not return by Friday. This is in addition to the civil arrest warrants issued Monday by Governor Greg Abbott. The Texas State House of Representatives failed again today to reach a quorum, which is needed for Republicans to pass the redistricting plan backed and pushed by President Trump. This could eliminate five Democratic-held House seats ahead of the 2026 midterms, which is, of course, the whole point. The Texas House Speaker plans to try to establish quorum again on Friday.
Leaders of the most populous blue states are now threatening to respond to Texas's redistricting plan in kind, including New York Governor Kathy Hochul.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. KATHY HOCHUL (D-NY): I'm exploring with our leaders every option to redraw our state congressional lines as soon as possible. The gloves are off, and I say bring it on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Let's bring in Republican Congressman Mike Lawler from the state of New York. Congressman, you've been openly against redrawing the maps in your state from when they just took effect in 2023. You are just one of seven Republicans in 26 total districts in your state. You beat your Democratic opponent in 2024 by 6.4 percent. It does look as though there is about to be this redistricting arms race, which seems, at least as of now, prompted by President Trump pushing Texas to take this unusual step to try to offset losses in the midterms. If you had your druthers, would you tell Texas to cut it out?
REP. MIKE LAWLER (R-NY): Well, obviously, the veneer of partisan redistricting is off, and you have states across the country seeking to interject themselves into this fight. Remember, back earlier this year in Wisconsin, there was a Supreme Court race, and the main focus was about whether or not they would engage in redistricting. And ultimately, even though the Democrat candidate won, they chose not to allow for a mid-decade redistricting.
Obviously, Texas is proceeding forward. The challenge here, you look at New York. Kathy Hochul has some, you know, chutzpah here. The fact is, she tried to do partisan gerrymandering back in 2022, and the New York State Court of Appeals threw out the map because it violated the state constitution. I was executive director of the state Republican Party just over a decade ago when, in fact, New Yorkers went to the polls and adopted a constitutional amendment to ban gerrymandering and require an independent redistricting commission. That is the law of the land in New York.
It does not allow for mid-decade redistricting. So what the Democrats would have to do is pass a new constitutional amendment in two successive state legislatures and then get the voters to adopt it at earliest in 2027 to allow for a mid-decade redistricting. That is not what voters want. It's not what New Yorkers have, you know, voted for when they adopted this constitutional amendment back in 2014.
TAPPER: Right.
LAWLER: In 2021, they rejected an attempt by Democrats to weaken it with a constitutional amendment.
TAPPER: So if you look at the map, you have some exceptions like Illinois. There's blatant Democratic gerrymandering. But most of the worst offenders when it comes to gerrymandering are Republican states such as Texas. What's going on here is President Trump is worried about what happens with almost every President, midterm election losses in the House. And to offset that, he looks at Texas and says, oh, we can gerrymandering -- we can gerrymander five Republican seats there in the middle of the decade.
My -- my question for you is, I get that you don't like, and personally, I'm against gerrymandering all over the place. I don't like it in New York. I don't like it in Texas. I don't like it in California, et cetera. But what's going on now is there's about to be an eruption of this because not only are California and New York, Democratic states, threatening to do it. Trump is trying to push Missouri and Ohio as -- as next states, Republican states, to try to squeeze out a few more Republican seats.
[17:45:03]
Wouldn't you like it all to stop? Wouldn't you -- I mean, what's your message to President Trump or the White House party leaders about let's just stop it right now and stop it in Texas, stop it in New York, stop it in California, et cetera?
LAWLER: Well, let's -- let's be clear. This has obviously been happening for decades. It's why in last November's elections, only 35 seats were decided by five points or less. As you pointed out, I won by 6.4 percent. And yet I'm a district that Kamala Harris won, one of only three Republicans to represent a district Harris won. So the problem is across the country, gerrymandering has been happening after each successive census and it has created less competitive districts.
TAPPER: Right.
LAWLER: And so there's very little room in terms of trying to pick up seats. And so, yes, I think it's wrong what Texas is doing. I don't support it. I think it is wrong what has happened in Illinois or New Jersey, for instance, which has a "independent redistricting commission" where the tiebreaking vote made this declarative statement. Republicans got to draw the map last time. So I'm going to give it to the Democrats, even though it meant resulting in three Republicans getting elected.
We have to actually have neutral districts across this country. It would serve the country better. I am going to be introducing legislation to outright ban gerrymandering, let alone during mid- decade redistricting, but to not allow it at all. This is fundamentally why Congress is broken. You do not have competitive districts. And so most members are focused on primaries -- TAPPER: Right.
LAWLER: -- and not actually engaging in a general election.
TAPPER: All right. New York Republican Congressman Mike Lawler, come back when you introduce that legislation. We'd love to have you on.
LAWLER: Will do.
TAPPER: A major manhunt for a man suspected of killing four people comes to an end after days of intensive searching. Investigators have just given an update. We'll bring you that story next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:51:19]
TAPPER: In our National Lead, after a week-long manhunt, the man accused of killing four people last week has been arrested in Tennessee, police say. Twenty-eight-year-old, Austin Robert Drummond is suspected of murdering a young mother, father, grandmother, and uncle before abandoning a seven-month-old baby 40 miles away. Earlier today, law enforcement officials revealed the relationship between Drummond and the victims.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID RAUSCH, DIRECTOR, TENNESSEE BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION: In terms of the relationship between the suspect and the victims, the suspect's girlfriend is the sister of -- of a victim, is the daughter of a victim, and is the sister of, well, two victims.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: During the manhunt, three people were also arrested accused of helping the accused murderer, the suspected murderer, after the killings.
The Justice Department is planning to seek federal hate crime charges in the killing of two Israeli embassy staffers, that's according to sources who say the indictment would also include special findings that would allow the Justice Department to pursue the death penalty against the suspect in the deaths of Yaron Lischinsky and Sarah Milgrim, who were targeted outside an American Jewish Committee event at a D.C. Jewish museum. CNN's Katelyn Polantz has more.
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Jake, the Justice Department is expected to go to a grand jury later this week for the indictment of Elias Rodriguez, a man already accused of shooting two Israeli embassy staff members, leaving an event for Jewish community members in May in Washington, D.C. Now, this indictment would be significant for two reasons.
One, sources are telling Hannah Rabinowitz here at CNN and I that there is an expectation there will be federal hate crime charges against Rodriguez. And also, the Justice Department is planning on including some special findings in this indictment so that they may be able to pursue capital punishment, the death sentence for Rodriguez in court when he goes to trial.
That is all quite unusual to have in this district, a major case for the Trump Justice Department at a moment where they are trying to counter both violent crime, especially in Washington, D.C., and also where the Trump administration is trying to counter and -- and speak about politically anti-Semitism across the country. So a major case, a major indictment expected later this week.
And I'm told by one of my sources on this that the grand jury sitting in Washington, D.C. has been working for weeks to try and stand up both the hate crime charges as well as the possibility of the death sentence here for Elias Rodriguez, for shooting that couple, Yaron Lischinsky and Sarah Milgrim, as they left the Capitol Jewish Museum in May in D.C., just near the courthouse downtown.
This is a situation where in court it wasn't just the crime itself where there were grand jury witnesses around it, although there were many witnesses there. There also were family, friends, acquaintances of Elias Rodriguez who were brought into the grand jury to try and stand up this indictment. He has not been indicted yet, and there is not yet a pleading from Rodriguez in court, but he already is charged with using firearm to commit murder, first degree murder, and murdering foreign officials.
We do expect to see the formal indictment and potentially more proceedings later this week for what is stands to be a very significant case for the Trump Department here in the Nation's Capitol. Jake?
TAPPER: All right, our thanks to Katelyn Polantz for that report.
[17:54:48]
We have some breaking news about Sean "Diddy" Combs, what one of his attorneys just revealed to CNN's Elizabeth Wagmeister in an exclusive interview that's coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TAPPER: Welcome to the Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. This hour, President Trump pressed on Epstein associate, Ghislaine Maxwell, and whether she's credible. As CNN's learns -- CNN learns the White House is debating whether or not to release a transcript of Maxwell's recent meetings with the deputy attorney general. Two of the most well sourced Trump reporters are going to join me live in moments.
Plus, a damning new report lays out what went so horrifically long when the Titan sub imploded on that expedition to see the Titanic wreckage, why investigators say this was a, quote, preventable disaster and why they believe toxic workplace culture played a role in the tragedy.
[17:59:57] Also, one of the attorneys for Sean Diddy Combs is going to sit down with CNN today for an exclusive interview, her first since Combs was acquitted of the most serious charges in his federal sex trafficking trial, but convicted on prostitution offenses.
