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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump Meets Putin in Push for Ukraine Deal; Putin Suggests Russia and U.S. Could Reach Nuclear Arms Deal; Wholesale Prices on the Rise. Melania Trump Threatens To Sue Hunter Biden Over Epstein Comments; Florida To Open Second Immigration Facility At Vacant Prison. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired August 14, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jim Sciutto in today for Jake Tapper live from Anchorage, Alaska.

In less than 24 hours, a major summit between President Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin.

[18:00:01]

Tonight, what exactly is at stake? President Trump believes he can deliver a deal in the ongoing Russia-Ukraine war and says that both sides are ready to make peace. He's also teasing a second meeting, which would involve the Ukrainian president. So, what does this mean crucially for Ukraine? Any peace deal may need to involve an agreement on territory, as Russia currently occupies almost a fifth of Ukrainian land. We're going to break it all down.

Plus, Putin is also hinting at deals. Can Moscow and Washington get to an agreement on nuclear arms as well? I'm going to speak to someone who has negotiated deals with the Kremlin before.

And inside the mind of Vladimir Putin, a closer look at the notoriously tough negotiator's psyche. Has Trump already given him the upper hand?

CNN's Kaitlan Collins is in Anchorage with me now. And, Kaitlan, as I was listening to the president earlier in the Oval Office, he sounds optimistic to me and I wonder if that's what you're hearing and what then would he base that optimism on?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: He was optimistic, but he had a lot of caveats that I was actually surprised to hear peppering in way more than he had earlier this week, or even, you know, just a week ago when we had first been hearing from White House officials as they were cobbling this summit together, what this could potentially look like. And the president very much was saying that so much of what happens next here really does depend on what is said when he and Putin actually get in the room together 24 hours from now.

SCIUTTO: Those first few minutes he said -- COLLINS: Hanging so much on that saying within the first two minutes he thinks he would know the Russian leader is ready to make a deal, which I think is why it raises a lot of questions of what the Russians are coming here, what they'll be prepared to bring to the table if they try to offer any distractions when it comes to trade or business deals with President Trump or investment and something that obviously he has talked about a lot.

But he added a lot of caveats about what a second meeting could look like. A second meeting that he said could even be more important than his sit-down with Putin, which would be a trilateral meeting with Putin, Trump and Zelenskyy, and this is what he had to say about what that could look like and what would need to happen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Tomorrow, all I want to do is set the table for the next meeting, which should happen shortly. I'd like to see it happen very quickly, very shortly after this meeting. I'd like to see it actually happen maybe in Alaska where we just stay because it's so much easier. But I think that -- I think it's going to be very interesting. We're going to find out where everybody stands.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: The president really hinging that on what is said when he is in the room with Putin tomorrow. But, obviously, this question of Zelenskyy coming here, one, it's an incredibly long trip from Ukraine, but, two, when Putin was raised with this idea a little over a week ago about sitting down with Trump and Zelenskyy, he said that certain conditions would have to be met for Putin to sit down with the Ukrainian leader. Obviously, he said those conditions had not been met. He wants more Ukrainian territory, more guarantees that they would not join NATO. So, that is a real question of what that looks like.

And I think the question here for tomorrow for Trump is whether or not he takes this tack of trusting what Putin says if he is ready to bring this war to an end, or if we see that frustration that has been bubbling up in recent weeks where he's had good conversations with Putin, but then very much said he felt like he was potentially tapping him along. And I do think it's not an overstatement to say so much of that rides on what happens here tomorrow.

SCIUTTO: You know, it reminds me of the Trump-Kim summits and the first administration, and there were three of those, of course. And what we saw on the last one was that when Trump felt he wasn't getting enough, he did walk away. I wonder, do you believe the president would walk away from this summit if Putin doesn't give enough ground, in his view?

COLLINS: Potentially. But, obviously, we know the Russian leader is going to come prepared to cater to Trump to appeal to him. I will say Trump's history of meeting with authoritarian leaders, these strong men types, he is not often yielded much. Obviously, his meetings with Kim Jong-un did not. We'll see if this meeting with Putin does, but I think a lot of Russian analysts have said, you know, this meeting in and of itself is a huge win for Putin, who has been totally isolated on the world stage and has been sanctioned, is under threat of being arrested. He goes basically to half the places in Europe.

And so the meeting in and of itself is a big win for them. Whether or not what Trump sees as a win coming out of this still remains to be seen. But he very much raised this idea today saying maybe we'll do a joint press conference if this goes well. And if not, maybe I'll just do him by myself and then I'll just go back to the United States.

SCIUTTO: Yes. He's leaving a wide door open for himself to walk out.

COLLINS: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much. Of course, don't miss Kaitlan on her show The Source with Kaitlan Collins. That is tonight live from Alaska. Look for that at 9:00 Eastern right here on CNN.

President Trump said again today that there would be some, quote, give and take of land, even as Ukrainian President Zelenskyy remains adamant, he will not cede any of his country's territory in the eastern Donbas region. Right now, Russia controls just over 18 percent of Ukrainian territory.

[18:05:03]

CNN's Nick Paton Walsh shows us exactly which territories remain in Putin's sights.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Any peace deal in Ukraine is going to ultimately be about land. And when President Trump talks about swapping territories, this is Russian occupied areas, but it's these three parts here, black surrounded that have always been part of Russian President Vladimir Putin's most maximalist war goals. That's what he wants.

The lines we've drawn as best as we can here, but the stakes are incredibly high. Any minor inaccuracy of my pen could be a place that thousands of people have fought and died for or still live.

Now, in just recent days, there's been a tiny advance here by the Russians, but it's significant and caused some concern and even denials and reinforcements sent from Kyiv. But this Donetsk area is potentially, if we understand what the Kremlin's proposed somewhere, they want Ukrainians to withdraw from entirely in exchange for a ceasefire. And look at it. It's a huge area. What could they give back? These tiny border parts occupied by Russia, a buffer zone, President Putin calls it, but it's hardly a fair exchange.

And so the real hard to solve question, what happens to Zaporizhzhia and Kherson. Now, Russia occupies probably about two thirds of each, but Putin wants all of it. They were kicked out, the Russians, here in the first year of the war. But it's impossible to imagine Ukraine deciding to pull out of massive areas like this, and equally impossible to imagine that Russians will give up a big strategic gain of a land corridor that they managed to take when the big invasion began down to Crimea that they've hold since 2014. That's the sticking point, and there's very little obvious way through it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WALSH: Jim, it doesn't look like it's even going to work on paper, but imagine trying to force those huge movements of population or militaries in the real world in potentially a continuing battlefield zone. That's the reality of the idea of territorial swaps already flat out rejected here by Ukraine, a tough political ask, an impossible military ask, you might argue. And that really leaves people so anxious here, that if the bedrock of these talks potentially is territorial swaps, and that is impractical and unsellable here, what possibly could Trump emerge from that meeting with that Ukraine likes? Jim?

SCIUTTO: Our Nick Paton Walsh in Kyiv, thanks so much.

Joining us now to discuss further, former Russia director on the National Security Council, Jeffrey Edmonds, and CNN Contributor and former CNN Moscow Bureau Chief Jill Dougherty. Good to have you both on.

Jill, I wonder if I could begin with you. On the question of territorial swaps, I've noted before that a Ukrainian official told me some time ago that the political pressure against ceding territory for Ukrainian president are many tens of thousands of Ukrainian mothers who lost sons and daughters on the battlefields protecting that territory. I'm curious, could Volodymyr Zelenskyy agree to ceding territory and maintain his position, maintain his leadership? Is that politically survivable?

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: That's a real danger, a real political danger for Zelenskyy. And I think, you know, the Russians would be very happy to put him in that position because what they would like to do is have Zelenskyy out of power. And if there is a political problem and many Ukrainians, you know, more and more want to come to some type of agreement and end the war, but how, and most of them still at this point do not want to give up land. So, if Zelenskyy does give up land, then that could be a political problem.

Now, of course, it's all in the details because, ultimately, it may be realistic that there would have to be some land given up, but it's really a political minefield.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Jeff, the Kremlin's top economic envoy, Kirill Dmitriev, told my colleague Fred Pleitgen that this summit is a chance for something bigger, to reset U.S.-Russia relations if the meeting goes well. I just wonder how likely that is. And forgive me, wasn't the intention of these talks to end the war in Ukraine and would that discussion of broader goals mean he's trying to drag attention away from the war in Ukraine? JEFFREY EDMONDS, FORMER DIRECTOR FOR RUSSIA, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL AND FORMER CIA MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, I think that's right. I mean, there's a -- in one sense, Ukraine is -- from the Russian perspective, is a problem, is a symptom of a bigger problem with Russia's relationship with us and with the security architecture in Europe.

[18:10:00]

But, certainly, I think Putin understands that Trump wants a deal. And so if you put things like a nuclear arms treaty on the table, rare earth minerals, that, in a certain sense, I think, Putin believes can draw Trump away from really focusing on Ukraine.

SCIUTTO: Yes. And, listen, it has been an ambition of President Trump's going back to the first administration to have some sort of nuclear agreement with Russia, which, of course, would be good for the world. I suppose the question, Jill Dougherty, is Russia serious about such a discussion because nuclear arms agreements take many years and a lot of hard work to negotiate and Russia has been moving forward on nuclear weapons? And the U.S. assessed that Russia was close to using a nuclear weapon in Ukraine back in 2022.

DOUGHERTY: Yes, there are issues with it. But, certainly, when you look at the -- let's say the new START agreement, the very last agreement, disarmament agreement between the United States and Russia, it will be ending in February of next year. So, there is some inducement to do that.

But, Jim, I would also say nuclear is one thing, but this economic side, I think that they really feel that they can entice President Trump into something. I mean, if you look at the composition of the group that they are bringing with President Putin, it contains that, you know, their finance minister and the person CNN has been talking to a lot, Kirill Dmitriev, who's in charge of international investment, these are all people, I think, that Putin thinks can really, you know, talk with Trump and his people and convince them, yes, we can move ahead, we can restore relationships.

SCIUTTO: Yes. I mean, listen they must have been watching other Trump negotiations, right, because there always seems to be a business or trade element.

Jeff, Ukrainian lawmakers have been telling me for some time, and they're not alone in this, that Putin only responds to strength. Do you believe Trump is showing such strength leading up to this summit?

EDMONDS: I think he has to some degree. I think his turn where he, you know, spoke rather harshly of Putin and talked about sanctions and has prompted what we're seeing on in Alaska. I think Putin is concerned about sanctions. But I also think that Putin understands that, you know, in the end, this isn't about land, right? I mean, he's trying to get relief from sanctions and a better relationship and sideline with us and sideline Ukraine. But in the end, I think he knows what he wants. He wants a new regime in Ukraine, and a land deal is not going to give him that.

SCIUTTO: Well, we're going to learn a lot more tomorrow.

Jeff Edmonds, Jill Dougherty, I appreciate you joining.

On Friday here in Anchorage, President Trump and Vladimir Putin's very high-stakes summit. Will it lead to an end to the war in Ukraine. Please do join us live from Alaska for special coverage Friday, right here on CNN.

Coming up next, what Trump can expect when he meets with Russia's leader, some insight on Putin's negotiating tactics. That's next.

And later, some big economic news, a jump in prices for producers and manufacturers, what that could mean for the American consumer. That's just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:15:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: President Putin would like to see a deal. I think if I weren't president, he would take over all of Ukraine, but I am president and he's not going to mess around with me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: That was President Trump this afternoon in the White House one day before he meets face-to-face with Russian Leader Vladimir Putin, right here in Anchorage, Alaska.

Joining me now, Dr. Kenneth Dekleva. He's a psychiatrist, former regional medical officer at the U.S. embassy in Moscow. Kenneth, thanks so much for joining.

DR. KENNETH DEKLEVA, FORMER PSYCHIATRIST AND SENIOR DIPLOMAT, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT: Thank you for having me, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Earlier this year, you wrote in the Cipher Brief, quoting, negotiating with Putin, a trained KGB officer, politician, diplomat, and currently indicted world war criminal presents unique challenges for even the most talented politicians. So, I wonder, as Trump goes into this meeting tomorrow, what's his best angle and is there a smart way to play Vladimir Putin?

DEKLEVA: I think there is. And so far, I think President Trump and starting with special envoys Steve Witkoff have offered something to Putin that he wants that wasn't talked about in the earlier segments, but it is a way back from his pariah status, which includes being an indicted war criminal by treating and appealing to Putin's sense of respect, dignity, and treating him with empathy. They've avoided name- calling. They've been very careful in their comments about President Putin. And I think Trump has offered a lot.

That being said, it's also has to be remembered. President Putin is a nuclear armed hostage taker whose country holds 20,000 Ukrainian children hostage. And I think President Trump should set a high bar in terms of reciprocity. President Trump has given President Putin something, and that's a good negotiating strategy. President Putin must now respond with a ceasefire and releasing the 20,000 Ukrainian children.

SCIUTTO: At least in his public comments recently, President Trump has been more critical of Putin. He recently accused him of peddling bullshit over the phone. He hasn't backed it up with new penalties against Russia, but at least his public comments have been critical. Do you believe Putin is likely to believe, even fear that Trump's view of him has changed?

[18:20:00]

DEKLEVA: I think President Putin should be very careful. I think it's an excellent point. A lot of the media, even in Russia, has really downgraded President Trump's efforts, which I actually applaud in bringing this meeting together. But given President Trump's recent successes in negotiating other difficult conflicts, both during his first term with the Abraham Accords, and more recently between Rwanda, Congo, and importantly just last Friday between Armenia and Azerbaijan, President Trump's on a roll. And I think President Putin should be very careful not to underestimate President Trump. A lot of politicians have done that and been forced to eat crow.

SCIUTTO: Do you believe Trump's discussion, at least discussion of more sanctions but also that the Iran strike might factor into Putin's calculus that he saw President Trump, granted on a small scale big attacks over the course of just one day, willing to strike Iran, that that might at least raise a question in Putin's mind as to how far Trump might be willing to go as it relates to the war in Ukraine?

DEKLEVA: 100 percent. I think the strike against Iran showed what many people would call controlled deterrence, and it showed resolve, a Reaganesque resolve on President Trump's part. And I think President Putin, I'm sure that has changed his calculus in the sense that at least it's got to give him a sense of pause that this is a different President Trump than the President Trump he dealt with during President Trump's first term.

SCIUTTO: We'll see how that all comes together tomorrow.

Dr. Kenneth Dekleva, thanks so much for joining.

DEKLEVA: Thank you for hosting me.

SCIUTTO: And coming up next, a rise in the prices that businesses pay for goods. Will that trickle down to American consumers? And what does it mean for inflation in general? We'll discuss.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:25:00]

SCIUTTO: In our Money Lead now, unexpected spike in the prices that producers. And manufacturers pay inflation on the wholesale level picked up steam in July, that according to the Producer Price Index, or PPI. And though consumer inflation is holding steady to a large degree, the new July wholesale numbers could serve as a bellwether for what shoppers could soon see.

Joining me now is Gene Seroka, executive director of the Port of Los Angeles. Gene, good to have you on.

GENE SEROKA, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, PORT OF LOS ANGELES: Good evening, Jim.

SCIUTTO: So, speaking of bellwethers, ports are a good bellwether, and we know that businesses were rushing to import goods earlier this year, get in before the tariffs. I wonder what you're seeing right now.

SEROKA: Jim, it's been a rollercoaster. After the announcement of tariffs back in April, volume plummeted by 19 percent in the month of May, took a while to pick back up again, making for an all-time good news story at the back half of June, and then July, which we just closed, was our best month on record in the 117-year history of the port. Importers trying to advance inventory underneath the wire before new deadlines on tariffs are announced.

SCIUTTO: You and others have made clear that it is U.S. importers that are paying these tariffs. You see this there. Container comes in, they have to pay X amount of money to get that container off the ship. Have you seen those importers' willingness to do so to pay those tariffs begin to wane?

SEROKA: I think so because I believe that July will be noted as our peak. Typically, getting ready for the yearend holiday season, you see August, September, October as your high volume import months. I think we've got so much inventory in the country right now that will start to wane a little bit, and folks still really apprehensive as to the permanency of these trade tariffs that are in place today.

SCIUTTO: So, now we have this number, a full -- a 3.3 percent change year-over-year, full percent jump in wholesale inflation for this month. How soon could wholesale inflation begin to impact consumers and show up to the prices that in the prices consumers pay?

SEROKA: We believe end of September, and it's imminent. The numbers you just recounted or all that of the middle mile, the product that's sitting in the warehouses that have been there.

SCIUTTO: Right.

SEROKA: The inventory that was padded for months ahead of time is really being burned down now. And so what we're seeing is that just around the corner from those producer prices, usually, the consumer prices start to tick up.

SCIUTTO: What goods -- is there a category of goods you think will be most affected for consumers from the start?

SEROKA: We will take the highest prices first and the products you need to buy earlier. The back-to-school numbers looked less than good, according to the retail community, and prices had already gone up. Think of backpacks, pens, and pencil sets, blue jeans and sneakers for the kids going back to school. Next up will be Halloween. And then as we see the finished goods, especially out of China with an effective tariff rate of 55 percent, that's going to be furniture, toys, clothing, footwear, and electronics.

[18:30:07]

SCIUTTO: Well, I've certainly done a lot of back-to-school shopping myself.

Gene Seroka, thanks so much for joining.

SCIUTTO: That brings us now to today's Business Leaders, our series where we speak to small business owners about the impact of Trump's tariffs to their businesses. Right here in Anchorage, Alaska, Ermine Skate is the first and only Nordic skate manufacturer in North America. It's a specialized skate. It can be used to fly on wild ice found in arctic environments around here in Alaska.

Owner Paxton Woelber joins me now, and he brought one of them. First of all, they look very cool.

PAXTON WOELBER, OWNER, ERMINE SKATE: Yes, thank you.

SCIUTTO: Long blades. And I guess the heel comes up when you're going along on like a frozen lake or something like that.

WOELBER: Exactly. So, this is a Nordic skate setup. So, what we make here in Alaska is the skate portion, so the metal portion's on the bottom, and then it uses a binding typically from cross-country skiing and then a cross-country ski boot and then has a free heel like this.

SCIUTTO: So, how are tariffs impacting your business?

WOELBER: So, our lead times for manufacturing our product are fairly long. So, the materials that we ordered to make our skates, we generally ordered quite a while ago.

SCIUTTO: Gotcha.

WOELBER: So, tariffs aren't really impacting the cost of our skates going into the next season, but they do have a major impact on our sport, on our industry, and on our product. As you can see here, you know, a lot of what goes into a Nordic skating setup is not the stuff that we make. It's these other parts, like the binding and the boot, and ice poles and rescue picks and backpacks. And all of those things are subject to substantial tariffs, in some cases, very high tariffs.

So, we're definitely concerned that the products that we rely on to make our sport work are going to get more expensive, and that, correspondingly, people are going to have less disposable income to buy something like skates. I mean, I like to think that Nordic skating is an essential, necessary part of life, but the reality is, for most people, it's kind of a luxury, fun sport. SCIUTTO: Has that already filtered into the prices that you charge for the skates or do you expect that to happen soon?

WOELBER: The prices that we're going to charge for the skates themselves, I don't think, are going to change going into the next year. But the other components that we sell, we do sell bindings. We sell rescue picks. And I've already informed our customers by email and social media that they are going to be paying higher prices for those items. They're imported from Scandinavia, from the E.U., et cetera. So, they're subject to pretty substantial tariffs.

SCIUTTO: You've spoken to Senator Lisa Murkowski about the impact of tariffs. What has she told you? Given you're in Alaska business, I imagine she wants to do her best for you.

WOELBER: It's hard to tell what how effective anybody can be at helping businesses like mine with tariffs, the policies coming from the executive branch. And it doesn't seem to me that any other branch has any control over this or is willing to exert any control over this.

SCIUTTO: When I speak to small business owners and others, one issue they consistently bring up with me is just they don't know what's going to happen, right, uncertainty about where prices, tariffs will stand from one month to the next. Is that your experience too? And how does it affect your business?

WOELBER: Absolutely. So, talking with companies that make things for us, there's a lot of stress and anxiety and uncertainty over lead times. Sometimes that plays to our advantage in a way because we'll have companies say, hey, if you put a five-figure order down in the next week, we'll give you a very substantial discount. So, I have to rush to get all the money together and get it to them.

So, you know, I think we're doing okay right now, but there is very substantial long-term uncertainty in the cost for our own product and then also all this other stuff that we sell and the industry, generally.

SCIUTTO: Paxton Woelber, neat products, wish you the best of luck as you navigate all this.

WOELBER: Yes, thanks very much.

SCIUTTO: You can purchase your pair of Nordic skates online at ermineskate.com. Thanks so much for giving us a view inside the business.

Well, Vladimir Putin suggests there could be more on the table at these talks tomorrow. Is a nuclear arms deal a genuine possibility? I'm going to speak with a former State Department official who has negotiated such deals before. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:35:00] SCIUTTO: In our World Lead now, we are just hours away from the consequential meeting between President Trump and Vladimir Putin aiming to end a war. Today, Putin praised Trump for trying to end Russia's ongoing invasion of Ukraine and offered a potential next step. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT: The current American administration, which, as everyone knows, is making, in my opinion, quite energetic and sincere efforts to stop the hostilities, stop the crisis and reach agreements that are of interest to all parties involved in this conflict in order to create long-term conditions for peace between our countries and in Europe and in the world as a whole if by the next stages we reach agreements in the area of control over strategic offensive weapons.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: With me now, CNN Chief Global Affairs Correspondent Matthew Chance. He is at the airport here in Anchorage waiting for members of the Russian delegation to arrive.

Matthew, in recent weeks and months, Russia has been far more likely to rattle the nuclear saber than to talk about nuclear arms deals. So, why is Putin floating a possible nuclear deal now?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's a good question. And I think it just shows that the Kremlin is very keen indeed to, you know, take its place on the top table of international diplomacy.

[18:40:03]

Hark back to the old superpower era, when the Soviet Union, as Russia was then, was on an equal footing with the United States. And it's still that one area which is nuclear weapons, where the Russians and the Americans have about the same amount, the same level of strength.

In fact, the Russians have a few more warheads than the Americans do. And it's sort of always been one of those areas of big strategic conversations where the Kremlin is able to turn around and say, look, you know, we are dealing with the U.S. president as equals. We are, you know, top tier, top table military and diplomatic power. And so, I think that's one of the areas, one of the reasons why that's been raised now.

But it's also Jim part of a much broader agenda that the Kremlin are keen to push in the relationship between the United States and Russia. They're constantly talking about areas of arms control, economic cooperation, space exploration, exploitation of the Arctic, anything, to get the focus away from the narrow question of the war in Ukraine. They want to expand it, get away from Ukraine, talk about all the areas they can do deals in. Jim?

SCIUTTO: Yes. And I suppose the concern is that could be a distraction, right, from attempts to end the war.

Matthew chance there at the airport here in Anchorage, as we await the arrival of the Russian delegation for this summit.

Joining me now is Rose Gottemoeller. She served as NATO deputy secretary general from 2016 to 2019, and as the U.S. State Department's undersecretary for Arms Control in International Security.

Rose, it's good to have you here. Following Russia and recent years, it's largely been backtracking on nuclear agreements by the Kremlin, So, why do you believe the Russian president is raising the possibility of a nuclear arms deal now?

ROSE GOTTEMOELLER, FORMER NATO DEPUTY SECRETARY GENERAL: You're absolutely right that in recent years, Vladimir Putin has really linked up new, stark continuation or any kind of nuclear arms control with his top priority, which is Ukraine. And he said, unless at the time President Biden dropped support for Ukraine, no more nuclear arms control. So, this is very interesting.

Now, it does seem to me, as your correspondent noted, that he may be trying now to shove aside Ukraine by bringing up the arms control topic with Donald Trump and saying, hey, here's this great deal we could work on to control this weapon of mass destruction that you are so concerned about, Mr. President. Let's get on with that and shove aside the Ukraine issue, which I think would be a terrible shame, and I'm hoping that the president won't fall for it.

SCIUTTO: To paraphrase the late Senator John McCain, Russia is a gas station with nuclear weapons, right? I just wonder, given nuclear weapons are one of Putin's ways of projecting power with an economy that is really not growing, a shrinking population, what would his incentive be to limit his nuclear arsenal, even as part of a negotiation with the U.S.?

GOTTEMOELLER: Well, I have to say at the outset, I respect Senator McCain greatly, but I never quite agreed with that assessment, knowing that there was a great deal going on with the USSR and with Russia in terms of our technology cooperation throughout the cold war and afterwards, our efforts to work with them on the Arctic, on space cooperation and so forth. So, there are a lot more than a gas station with nuclear weapons.

But I think that for President Putin, he is looking for a way to attract Mr. Trump, just something that Mr. Trump places at a very high priority. And so for this reason, he, I do believe, thinks he might be able to distract Mr. Trump from his efforts to pursue the Ukraine peace deal.

My view is that Trump is going about this in a kind of phased approach. He wants Ukraine to get done, he wants to be successful with that, and then he'll be ready to move on. I don't think he's going to be ready to shove aside Ukraine, at least I very much hope that's the case. SCIUTTO: Yes. To your point, of course, a country of 170 million people, more than a gas station, but the point is about, I suppose, what this brings him, and he is a leader, very conscious of his power and role in the world. President Trump has raised the possibility of a three-way nuclear negotiation involving China, and China's another country that draws enormous influence or perceives itself to draw enormous influence from the size of its nuclear arsenal, which it is growing rapidly now.

[18:45:01]

Would China be a realistic player in any such negotiations or have realistic interest in any such negotiations?

GOTTEMOELLER: China may have an interest in the matter, but I don't believe they would come to a three-party table. And that is because their numbers are still very much smaller.

You're right, they're modernizing. They're building up rapidly. Our DOD thinks they'll be at 1,500 warheads in the next decade, but at the moment they're at 600 warheads, approximately on a total basis. And the United States and U.S. -- sorry, the Russian federation, both have over 4,000 warheads each. And so that's a great differential.

There is parity. There is an equality between the United States and Russia. That means we can continue to limit nuclear weapons working together. But I think in terms of China, they need to start being able to talk to us about what their objectives are. They need to start talking about some controls they might place on their modernization, and we can work with them on that.

SCIUTTO: Given that START will expire soon too, if there are no such negotiations, nuclear arms negotiations between the U.S. and Russia, then what happens? Are there no limits?

GOTTEMOELLER: Well, we won't fall off a cliff and I'll take you back to history, which is the 1970s and 1980s. And Ronald Reagan, as you might recall, named the USSR the evil empire. He wasn't ready to do any arms control at all, but we embarked on a period of what was called interim restraint at the time, and we both agreed to continue to abide by the limitations we placed on each other in the SALT 1 and SALT 2 negotiations. The first, strategic arms limitation talks in the 1970s, and that really held until Reagan and Gorbachev got together and started work on the first strategic arms reduction treaty, which resulted in an enormous reduction in our deployed nuclear arsenals.

So, I think that -- and I hope and expect that we will see the same type of restraint, even if new STARTs out of force without a new treaty.

SCIUTTO: Yeah, and that's such a good point historically, right, because those negotiations faced a lot of roadblocks before they reached a breakthrough.

Rose Gottemoeller, thanks so much for joining.

GOTTEMOELLER: Absolutely. My pleasure.

SCIUTTO: Please do stand with us.

Jim Sciutto live here in Anchorage as we cover the forthcoming summit between Trump and Putin tomorrow. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:51:25]

SCIUTTO: In our law and justice lead, First Lady Melania Trump is threatening legal action against Hunter Biden. And the president just gave her the green light to do so.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

INTERVIEWER: And she's suing Hunter for $1 billion. Is that the right thing to do?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I said go forward. You know, I've done pretty well on these lawsuits lately. And I said, go forward with it. Jeffrey Epstein had nothing to do with Melania and introducing.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: That legal threat after a claim by Hunter Biden about Trump's relationship with Jeffrey Epstein and who introduced whom?

CNN's Jeff Zeleny joins me now.

Jeff, $1 billion lawsuit against the former president's son. Is this a serious legal effort?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, I think given the Trump family's history of being litigious, yes, you would have to take it seriously. The billion dollars, I mean, that is a bit of a separate matter that is almost always up for a judge or perhaps even a jury to determine. But Melania Trump, the first lady of the United States is demanding a retraction. And this is all over the comment that Hunter Biden, of course, the son of the former president who's long been in the Trump's crosshairs. He suggested that Jeffrey Epstein introduced Donald Trump and Melania Trump back in the '90s in New York.

They said it's not true, but she is demanding a retraction on this. The president made news on it. Earlier today when he was on Fox News Radio with Brian Kilmeade. And as we just heard there, he said he is encouraging his wife to go forward with a lawsuit. So, we shall see if it happens. Of course, a lawsuit often invites a discovery that can be uncomfortable in some of these situations. So, the Trump's obviously are trying to make the Epstein matter go away. This could certainly enliven it. But with the president encouraging his wife to sue, it certainly could happen.

SCIUTTO: What's been Hunter Biden's response? ZELENY: Well, not surprisingly, perhaps, Jim, he is not responding

very favorably to this. He had this comment earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

INTERVIEWER: So now we're here maybe to give you the platform to apologize to the first lady for your statements that you made about her possible connection to Jeffrey Epstein.

HUNTER BIDEN, FORMER BIDEN'S SON: (EXPLETIVE DELETED). That's not going to happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So that laugh there with an expletive saying that is not going to happen. So, Jim, we'll see where this goes. But again, there have been many lawsuits coming out of the first family, and this is only the latest threat of one. However, this is the first one against Hunter Biden. So, it's hard to know which side would want to discovery the least in this.

But we'll obviously keep you posted if the lawsuit ever materializes, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Jeff Zeleny, thanks so much.

Well, one month after Florida opened, what the president likes to call Alligator Alcatraz. The state now says it is creating a new detention center. We'll have more on that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:58:43]

SCIUTTO: Our last leads begin with our national lead. Florida is building a second detention center for immigrant detainees, this one in a temporarily closed state prison west of Jacksonville. Governor Ron DeSantis is dubbing it, quote, deportation depot. The governor says the purpose of the detention center is to process and deport undocumented immigrants to their home countries as quickly as possible.

And in the world lead, Air Canada is beginning to cancel flights ahead of a possible lockout, and workers strike after eight months contract negotiations between the flight attendants union and the airline have now stalled. Now, Air Canada says about 130,000 of its passengers could be impacted. Unclear how long the standoff could last. Air Canada says a full restart of operations could take at least a week.

Reminder, CNN will have special coverage tomorrow live from Alaska as President Trump meets here with Russian President Vladimir Putin just behind me at Elmendorf Air Force Base, I'm going to join Jake Tapper as the anchors from here in Alaska.

Anderson Cooper will help lead coverage from Washington, D.C. If you're up late, join me at midnight eastern as we count down to tomorrow's summit. Until then, find me on Instagram @jimsciutto, on X as well, and you can also follow @TheLeadCNN on X.

If missed an episode of THE LEAD, you can listen to the show wherever you get your podcast.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.