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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Now: Trump-Putin Summit Under Way; Rep. Tim Burchett, (R-TN), Is Interviewed About Trump-Putin Summit, Vladimir Putin. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired August 15, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[17:01:17]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: History unfolding right this second here in Anchorage, Alaska. President Donald Trump and Russian leader Vladimir Putin are engaging in closed door talks. We got to see the top of that meeting about an hour and a half ago. Each president was flanked by some of their top diplomats. It was here in this room that a reporter asked Putin if he would agree to a ceasefire in Ukraine, Putin did not answer.

Welcome to a special edition of The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper in Anchorage, Alaska. That pivotal meeting unfolding just a few miles away over my shoulder at Joint Base Elmendor-Richardson -- Elmendorf- Richardson. The welcome that Putin has received here in Alaska has been much warmer than the weather, the red carpet, the handshakes, a flyover, military escort, Putin even rode with Trump to the site of their meeting. President Trump applauded Putin when he showed up.

The two presidents sitting together, seeing each other in person for the first time in six years. We're going to bring you a press conference in any moment when the two leaders come before -- into that room right there. CNN's chief White House Correspondent Kaitlan Collins joins us now at Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson.

Kaitlan, how are Trump and Putin trying to outmaneuver one another if you see evidence that they are?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, Jake, you see as they're setting up that press conference, the two large words that are emblazoned on the backdrop in all caps, pursuing peace. Obviously that is what they're trying to ultimately ostensibly achieve here. Certainly President Trump is.

But when it comes to, you know, outmaneuvering one another or how they both approach this, Trump himself has said recently when asked, you know, do you worry that Putin is stringing you along or trying to just buy more time here? He said that, you know, he knows the Russian leader well, that he's familiar with his tactics. Obviously, of course, only one of them is a former KGB officer himself and Putin who has dealt with multiple U.S. presidents, not just the return of Trump to office. And so that is the question when they're inside the room, because both of them seem to rely on their own abilities when communicating with one world leader, whether that be Putin flattering Trump as he made his way over here, something that Kurt Volker, a former official in the Trump administration, told me he believed was actually a condescending statement from the Russian leader or Trump himself as he was on the way here, playing a bit of hardball, Jake, on the plane by saying, you know, if he doesn't get a cease fire today, he's not going to be happy leaving Alaska to return to Washington with no cease fire in hand.

It's something that aides have told him is not likely to happen, some kind of major breakthrough with a Russian leader who's been incredibly dug in for years in Ukraine. But the president still ultimately wants to get one. And so that's the question here.

And one thing I should note, Jake, is we're waiting about 100ft away from this -- where this meeting is taking place is that it's a smaller meeting now that you saw there, where they went into the room about 90 minutes ago. It's going to be a bigger meeting. And they each brought finance guys on each side of this. Putin brought some of his finance ministers, Trump himself brought the Commerce secretary and the Treasury secretary. Those are the two figureheads in the Trump administration who have been making and negotiating trade deals over the last several months.

And so the White House is clearly hoping that can be some kind of appeal that they make to the Russian leader. The question is whether or not he prioritizes that over the war. Trump earlier said today they're not going to do anything on business until Putin does agree to bring the war to an end. And so how they hash that out behind closed doors and what they say about it publicly is really a key thing to watch coming out of this.

TAPPER: Interesting stuff. Kaitlan Collins, stand by.

Anderson Cooper has an incredible panel in Washington. Anderson, we throw it to you.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Jake, thanks very much. I do want to play something that former U.S. secretary of State and Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton said on "Raging Moderates" podcast. Take a listen.

[17:05:03]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF STATE: If he could end it without putting Ukraine in a position where it had to concede its territory, but instead could really stand up to Putin, there will be no exchange of territory, and that over a period of time, Putin should be actually withdrawing from the territory he seized. If President Trump were the architect of that, I'd nominate him for a Nobel Peace Prize.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Want to see how the panel feels about that? A lot of ifs in there, Rahm.

RAHM EMANUEL, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL & GLOBAL AAFAIRS COMMENTATOR: That was the most used word. Look, I think there are three categories when we're all done and said and done at the end of this day and passed. There's your area of territory, real estate, there's an area of sovereignty, can they join the E.U., can they have a defense equipment? And there's an area of independence, meaning political action.

And there was a story written the other day about how Finland gave up 10 percent of their land years ago, but ended up with their political, both sovereignty and independence and capacity to act. And I think, well, a lot of people have talked about World War II, Potsdam, maybe World War I. Look at North Korea -- North, South Korea. The model may be the roadmap out of here, or the North Star of the measurement is what happened in Finland. And I think that is a very telling.

And the Finnish themselves, the prime minister has been a pusher of using that as an example of what can be a final, final, final, not today, you're not going to get it here. But I think there's a piece of the territory that Zelenskyy said he's ready to deal with.

COOPER: Ambassador, what would you imagine a peace deal looking like? I mean, not necessarily today, but at some point, this has to end.

JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Well, I don't -- I don't think there's a peace deal anywhere in the -- in the near future. And I think the real measure of what to do here is to consider the failures of the past three and a half years to have a strategy on our side to do what was the stated position of every NATO member, the full restoration of Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity. As long as Putin is advancing on the battlefield, even if it's three yards in a cloud of dust, he's not going to give up anything if he can get away with it. And I think here, I think the White House has lowered expectations precisely for the reason that it's too complicated to handle here. I think we're going to get a State Department outcome.

When you say to the State Department diplomatists, well, how did the meeting go? Went great. What did you agree to? We agreed to have another meeting.

COOPER: Jill.

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Also I think, you know, this war actually, in a way, perversely, is good for Putin. I mean, it is hurting his economy, people are dying. But when you talk about the way he is dealing with his country, militarizing it, it is a very different place from three years ago when I was there, completely militarized. He has the entire population. His ratings now are higher almost than ever because of this.

And I just think that, you know, his inducement to stop this is not very great. I take your point, Rahm, that, you know, it's bad and ultimately will have to end, he can't do this forever, but right now it really is working for him. ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR: And I wonder --

EMANUEL: I think he's scared of it, Andy. Because of what happens domestically.

DOUGHERTY: Exactly. Because these guys come back.

EMANUEL: Right.

DOUGHERTY: Let's say the guys are traumatized coming back from the war. They're already having problems with domestic violence.

COOPER: It was like when the Afghan vets came back --

DOUGHERTY: Yes.

COOPER: -- from the Soviet war in Afghanistan.

PHILLIP: I do wonder if the political aspect of what you laid out might be the most difficult to resolve here.

EMANUEL: The territory, yes.

PHILLIP: No, the freedom of Ukraine to determine its own future. I mean, that seems to be the thing that Vladimir Putin is the least willing to even have a conversation about. Fundamentally, what this comes down to is, is Putin willing to back off of this idea of imperialism and empire? And I don't see any sign that he's doing that. And as long as that's the case, there might be trading of land here and there.

But if he doesn't agree that Ukraine is, A, a real country and B, has a right to determine its own future, then what are we even talking about here?

EMANUEL: That's why I said the swap or not swap, trade off equities, there's a real -- there's a territory piece. But an independent sovereign in Ukraine has its price that is going to be very much, and people are going to say, wait, we lost a million people, our economy's in shambles, and they're still not our younger brother? And I --

BOLTON: But they believe -- they believe in the Russian empire.

EMANUEL: Right.

BOLTON: And that hasn't changed. When you saw Sergey Lavrov arrive with the CCCP T-shirt on --

PHILLIP: Yes.

BOLTON: -- Lavrov was my counterpart for a time in the George H.W. Bush administration. When I went over to meet him when he first took the job in Moscow, they gave me the usual briefing materials. This is still under communist rule. And it ended by saying, we assess that Lavrov is not a communist. It's pretty striking.

We assess he is a czarist. That was 35 years ago.

PHILLIP: Yes.

BOLTON: And that's what's playing.

[17:10:00]

ANDERSON: You don't think that sweatshirt was just on the top of the laundry pile he just grabbed it accidently?

BOLTON: They don't -- they don't have sweatshirts that say Russian Empire. Hide (ph).

COOPER: So I'm just getting this video. And this is -- that's the --

PHILLIP: That is Lavrov.

COOPER: -- Lavrov, obviously, yes. There's the CCP. You don't see that -- you don't see that every day.

PHILLIP: It's (inaudible) t-shirt.

JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: We call that a message.

COOPER: By the way, for those viewers who are too young to know, CCCP is --

KING: It's USSR.

COOPER: It's USSR.

KING: Translated to USSR, it's Soviets. Look, from what Lavrov is wearing and with everything, you know, Lavrov or Vladimir Putin, the most important men have said since this began and even before it began, they view Ukraine as part of Russia. They keep saying that, these are our people. These are our people, these are our brothers, these are our people. And so, to the -- how do you have a political solution unless Vladimir Putin agrees to give that up?

Well, if you've watched him for the last 25 years, you know, you're asking a lot. He is -- he is -- he -- Trump is inconsistent. Sometimes that works to his favor. Vladimir Putin has been a very consistent person for 25 years about what he wants here. And I think that's what makes this so complicated.

If this ends -- if this ends, Putin's not going to fly to Alaska and say, oh, you're right, Ukraine's an independent democracy in Europe. Sorry, that's not going to happen. And so -- but if he gets to Jill's point, a process, State Department meetings, we're going to meet again, we're going to talk again, and in the meantime, you keep it going and no sanctions? I mean, if you're Putin and you get a process and relief of U.S. sanctions potentially, which Russians are saying are coming, even if it's just some of them or no new U.S. sanctions, then they're going to pop the champagne and fly home.

PHILLIP: I think there's also -- there's a lot of talk, especially on the right, about, you know, well, maybe it's a win for the United States if Trump is able to isolate Russia from China. And that in and of itself is something that is worth getting. I think that's a very generous way of looking at this. I don't think Putin is playing a game of, you know, his relationship with China vis-a-vis the United States. He wants an empire, the USSR back for Russia.

And I think that all of the other things are less important than that. But we might start to see Trump's allies trying to spin what comes out of this meeting as some sort of 40 chess around some of those other ancillary issues.

COOPER: Everyone standby. The historic summit between President Trump, Vladimir Putin continues right now behind closed doors. That's why we're yammering away here.

As we wait on the results of this meeting, we'll hear from a Republican on the House Foreign Affairs Committee about what he hopes will happen.

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[17:16:21]

TAPPER: The stage is literally set and the stakes could proverbially not be higher. Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin expected to walk up to these very lecterns when their closed door meeting ends. That could be at any moment now. A lunch that was scheduled for more than an hour ago still has not happened. That's clearly a sign.

But a sign of what? CNN's Matthew Chance is just a few miles away from me. Also in Anchorage, he's at Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson --

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

TAPPER: -- where the summit is taking place.

Matthew, what are you hearing about the Russian delegation?

CHANCE: Well, I mean, look, I mean, it was a bit of a surprise, I suppose that Shalkov, who is a presidential aide, was the third member of that three plus three delegation to meet with the United States. Part that meeting, the three plus three format is underway. But I mean, it shows you, doesn't it, that Shalkov who is a seasoned diplomat, he served as U.S. ambassador for a decade here from Russia and he's a real wily sort of cold war era kind of warrior, knows America very well and is a close adviser to Vladimir Putin. And, you know, it just shows that that emphasis that -- of this summit is not going to be on the general trade talks, which is what President Putin would have liked this to really be about. The focus is very much on the issue of Ukraine.

You can see the slogan over the stage as it's being set there, pursuing peace. They've even headlined it, they even put words to it as to what the main thrust of this -- of this summit will be. So that meeting, that three plus three format meeting is still underway. There's going to be the next part of the summit will be a broader meeting over lunch involving all the other characters from the U.S. Cabinet, from Trump's cabinet, the other Russian delegates as well, including Kirill Dmitriev, the Kremlin envoy on economic cooperation. And it's at that point they're going to start speaking about other issues outside of Ukraine, things like trade cooperation, Arctic exploration, potentially space exploration is one of the areas that they've talked about as well.

But you know, look, the -- Kirill Dmitriev who we spoke to earlier, admitted to us when we -- when we confronted him about it that, look, he understands now that there's not going to be any progress on economic affairs until there is progress on that central question of what happens in Ukraine. So that's what the emphasis of this summit is going to be, Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Matthew Chance in the press conference room at Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson, just a little bit over my shoulder here in Anchorage.

Let's bring back my panel. I have with me CNN's Kristen Holmes, who covers the White House for us, and CNN Anchor Jim Sciutto, who's written many books on the subject of Russian power here with me in Anchorage.

Let's talk about something that's interesting here. You just heard Matthew talking about how the Russians were hoping for, they don't really care about settling the Ukraine problem, right? They want to -- they want to seize Ukraine, but they brought these individuals with experts and finances because they want to -- they want to sit down with Donald Trump businessman and do business. They want to enter into economic deals, deals about space, this and that.

[17:20:01]

You told me, Kristen Holmes, earlier today that the Commerce Secretary, Howard Lutnick, and the Treasury Secretary, Scott Bessent, or Bessent rather, are here. Why are they here?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, they flew on the plane with President Trump. And it gives you an indication that there could be economic talks. And also some of this is a little bit of the White House, the administration dangling that --

TAPPER: Yes.

HOLMES: -- in front of Putin in front of the Russians. You have a three on three which these two are men are not a part of. It's just supposed to be about or at least at the base supposed to be about what's going to happen in Ukraine. And one of the things Trump said was that he was not going to have an economic discussion until there was a conversation about what was going to happen in Ukraine. And now you're seeing him at least somewhat stick to that.

He's having this meeting with Rubio and Witkoff. Rubio and Witkoff are not there to talk about the potential business dealings --

TAPPER: Right. HOLMES: -- with Russia. That would be later. That would be part of the expanded bilateral, the lunch which has not started yet. So that is them kind of dangling this idea of potential economic deals, all things that we know the Russian president wants. It's also somewhat of a potential threat because Scott Bessent and Howard Lutnick are in charge of two other big important things which are sanctions and tariffs. So you have them kind of there as a what are we going to talk about when this is resolved based on what are we talking about on the three on three or what comes out of that first meeting?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Does Trump get the cease fire first, which appears to be his opening position here? And to be fair to your point earlier about how Trump's view of Putin has evolved over the months, even perhaps to the point of embarrassment, right, is that Trump demanded the ceasefire going back virtually on day one of his administration, which --

TAPPER: Right.

SCIUTTO: -- which Ukraine agreed to, right? You know, even in the midst of that Oval Office session back in -- back in February. But Trump has never -- but Putin rather has never agreed to and President Trump's still waiting for that. And it does appear that he's entering this meeting with that as step one. And then we can open up discussion on other issues, for instance, economic issues.

TAPPER: So I was talking to Ivo Daalder, former U.S. ambassador to NATO during, I think Bill Clinton's administration, a Democratic administration, and he said he didn't believe Trump's threats about if Putin doesn't agree to a ceasefire, I'm out of here. And the reason he said -- I think it was Ivo Daalder, I apologize if I'm mistaken here. And the reason, he said, is because Trump has already issued a number of threats over the last few weeks about if Putin doesn't cut this out, then I'm going to do this, sanctions, tariffs, and hasn't followed through on any of it. Is that --

SCIUTTO: With deadlines. I mean, he's blown through his own deadlines repeatedly, right? The most one being, I think it was last Friday, right --

HOLMES: Yes.

SCIUTTO: -- before this session was announced for sanctions. So, I mean, that's a matter of public record because Trump himself has quite publicly said, one week or two weeks or I'll know in one or two weeks. And I hear that same skepticism when I speak to Ukrainian officials. They will say -- they may not want to say it publicly because they don't want to get on the wrong side of President Trump, but privately they'll say we're waiting for him to enforce those deadlines.

TAPPER: Interesting stuff. Thanks so much.

I want to bring in Republican Congressman Tim Burchett of Tennessee. He joins us now. He serves on the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

Congressman, always good to have you with us. We saw President Trump and Vladimir Putin in the meeting room before the talks began. Reporters asked Putin whether he would agree to assist cease fire if he would commit to stopping the killing of civilians. Why should trust -- why should Trump trust him? Now Putin, not surprisingly, was the Cheshire Cattied (ph).

He didn't -- he didn't answer. He kind of made silly expressions. What do you think is the reason why Putin is here? He doesn't really seem to want peace necessarily. He continues to strike civilian centers just in the last few hours.

Why do you think the Russian president is here?

REP. TIM BURCHETT (R-TN): I think a lot of it has to do with his ego. You know, he's former KGB. They are masters of misinformation and filling the public full of things that are not the truth. I think he's -- but he is there. And so I would hope that maybe we could -- we could move towards peace. A little less killing in this world would be a great thing, Jake.

And as you know, you have members of Congress who will financially benefit from this war to continue. And we see this time and time again. We see that with leaders in our own communities. They want us all fighting because once the fighting stops, they're out of power. And I think Putin realizes that he is definitely a wartime dictator, and I think he enjoys the role on the world stage.

TAPPER: Do you have any concerns at all about how this summit has been happening? And obviously, I'm sure everybody watching and you and I, we all hope that a just peace comes out of this and that the killing stops 100 percent. But the idea of the Russian president being welcomed with a red carpet on American soil, President Trump applauding him, inviting him into The Beast, what do you make of all that?

[17:25:21]

BURCHETT: I think a lot of it has to do with location. Trump doesn't do anything. I was in the Roosevelt Room with President Trump sitting two people away, and I was reminded what someone once told me that Trump doesn't do anything by accident. The color of the wallpaper, the location of the glasses, where people are sitting. I think he's in Alaska for one reason, energy. Some of the largest oil reserves in the world are there.

We got Alaska from Russia. I think ultimately it's not going to come down to firing bullets. It's going to come down to economics. And with Trump unleashing America's energy economics, I think in this world, I think it's going to put us in a lot better place to negotiate. I think you could literally shut Russia down.

And I hope that's the direction that he's going in. And I think that's ultimately where he's at. It's no accident they're there in Alaska right now.

TAPPER: Interesting. Republican Congressman Tim Burchett of the great state of Tennessee, it's good to see you, sir. Thank you so much for joining us.

As this historic Trump-Putin meeting stretches on it's worth, noting the rather warm reception giving to Putin upon his arrival here in Alaska. Coming up, we're going to ask a former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine about how that might be interpreted in Ukraine. Stay with us.

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[17:31:00]

COOPER: Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump shaking hands, sharing smiles, even laughing. This historic moment raising hopes for some that after more than three years of war, Trump, the dealmaker, can get Vladimir Putin to agree to a ceasefire in Ukraine. But missing from today's talks, the Ukrainians, of course, and their president, Volodymyr Zelensky. We're watching these lecterns where we expect the two presidents to announce what, if anything, they've agreed to. No sense of exactly when those announcements may occur.

Joining us here at the panel table right now is Bill Taylor, former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine. What do you make of what you have seen today thus far?

WILLIAM TAYLOR, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: Anderson, the Ukrainians were horrified and many angry at the kind of smiles and good vibes between --

COOPER: The President applauding Vladimir Putin, literally.

TAYLOR: Vladimir Putin has united Ukraine like nothing else, like no one could have expected. He -- Putin is reviled for obvious reasons. Kidnapped children, atrocities, war crimes, so soldiers, same thing, you heard that from soldiers. However, they do have -- the Ukrainians, have some hope that there can be an end. The Ukrainians are tired.

COOPER: There's also, I mean, there was a poll, I mean, there's a -- a hope in Ukraine, a desire for some sort of agreement. I want to put the -- the results of -- of this poll up. According to Gallup's most recent poll of Ukraine, taken in July, 69 percent of Ukrainians said they favor a negotiated end to the war as soon as possible, which is up from 22 percent in 2022.

TAYLOR: And the same percentage, 70 percent, will refuse to support turning over property, turning over territory, allowing the Russians to take legal control over that. They're willing to -- to recognize, they're not willing, they -- they hate the idea that the Russians are there, but they acknowledge that the Russians are de facto there on the ground.

De jure, the legal acknowledgement of the Russians there, that -- that they can't count them. So they're ready to end, they want the negotiations, 69 percent. But 70 percent will say we're not ceding territory.

COOPER: And others have questions as well. Abby? PHILLIP: I mean, if Donald Trump comes out of this with, you know, some kind of agreement just in principle, and then the -- the details, which often differ from what is announced, are much less concrete than he makes it seem. I mean, that seems like a victory for Putin.

If Putin comes out of this and can say, oh, we made a deal, but then after the fact, when you look at what's on paper, it's not all there. I mean, how do the Ukrainians sort of thinking about what the many possibilities are of what could come out of this?

TAYLOR: Ukrainians listen very carefully to what you all say on this panel, but also really carefully to what Trump has said. And Trump has said that his goal is to end the fight, end -- end the killing. He said that over and over, end the killing. And that is something that they can obviously support. They want it to stop.

They want the air, land and sea ceasefire, not partial. They want a full ceasefire. And that's something that either he gets, either Trump gets or not. If it's -- if it's delayed, if it's muddy, if it's not clear, that's not a win.

PHILLIP: Anything short of a full ceasefire, they would see as not what Trump -- not an outcome that Trump promised.

TAYLOR: Trump promised that. That's his goal.

EMANUEL: Abby, I do think you said one thing. Take a look at all these tariff negotiations. There is -- and they've been months and months, serious meetings. So you just have one meeting here. There has been massive dispute, even with allies like Japan or Korea, what actually was agreed to from the investment standpoint.

So the idea that there's going to be a quote-unquote even a term sheet or a communique, anything that's normal, forget about it. Any context that you have from a prior international meeting, even the tariff negotiations, there's not an agreement after there was an announcement. So will there be an attempt to brush a headline? Yes, the details or what's actually here will be less than the headline. That's why I think everybody pause -- hit pause before you hit send. That would be my recommendation.

[17:35:11]

PHILLIP: -- is coming up. And that's when Trump is going to set the narrative regardless of what actually has been agreed to.

COOPER: Ambassador, do you think was the U.S. too hamstrung from the beginning in this, in the way the U.S. was willing to defend Ukraine and send weapons to Ukraine? Was it -- was it enough? Were -- were they -- were -- was the U.S. so concerned about what Russia might do that it wasn't -- it was never going to be enough to actually win the war against Russia?

TAYLOR: The answer is yes. The -- we were constrained, there's no doubt, and -- and inhibited. And even worried about what might happen, what the Russians might do. Bill Burns has said -- COOPER: Who used to be former head of the CIA.

TAYLOR: Who was the head -- when he was -- when he was still the head of the CIA, said that they had overreacted, that the -- that was -- they overreacted to all these kind of saber rattlings at them. And he said it should not keep us from doing what we need to do.

BOLTON: Bill, how would -- how would you assess, at least before today, Zelenskyy's personal standing with the Ukrainian people? I've seen potential presidential candidates begin to speak out in Ukraine now, but how -- how do you think Zelensky stands with the people?

TAYLOR: John, he still is -- is very supportive. They trust him like 60 percent, 58 percent. That's not a bad, even after he had a little problem recently where he tried to take the independence away from these two anti-corruption organizations. He immediately switched when the -- when the public, when the Ukrainian citizens reacted, he flipped it over and -- and restored that independence. So that dented this, the trust in Zelenskyy.

But Zelenskyy has the trust of the Ukrainian people. There is not -- people worry that if -- if he is asked to make a deal that he might say something that is it doesn't go along with the Ukrainians, that won't happen.

BOLTON: And he understands that if he's asked to give up land and things like that, that he's reflecting the opinion of the Ukrainian people, he's not going to do it.

TAYLOR: He's not going to do it. It's his own view and it's the people's view.

DOUGHERTY: Bill, let me ask you, if -- if they get some sort of ceasefire in other places where Russia has been involved in taking land like Transnistria and other places, Georgia, they can still undermine in many other ways, right? So I'm just wondering, is there a way that Putin could, you know, say, yes, we're going to get a peace deal and then continue to try to get rid of Zelenskyy, get him out of office, undermine, sabotage, et cetera? What -- what's your --

TAYLOR: Sure he will try, Jill. I'm sure he will try. But you bring up a very good point. If there's a ceasefire, there has to be some enforcement. There has to be some security guarantee for the Ukrainians. And to their credit, the Europeans are stepping up. Europeans -- the -- the Germans, French, British are stepping up, talking about a coalition of the willing. They're talking about putting soldiers on the ground in Ukraine.

COOPER: Extraordinary move. Yes.

TAYLOR: Extraordinary move.

[17:38:06]

COOPER: Yes. Everyone stay with us. We're waiting to learn whether President Trump is making any progress in his meeting with Vladimir Putin after Trump yesterday said that at one point he thought the Russian-Ukraine war would be the easiest to solve out of all the global conflicts. We'll talk about why it's not so simple now.

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COOPER: At any moment, the historic meeting between President Trump and President Putin could end and the two could take the stage to tell the world how it went. We'll see what happens. CNN military analyst, retired U.S. Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton is back with me.

Colonel Cedric, President Trump said repeatedly he would solve this war quickly. Obviously, when he was running, he said he would do it within 24 hours and even before he would reach the White House, it could be over. Obviously, it is not an easy thing to do. Can you just talk a little bit about why?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, absolutely, Anderson. So basically, what -- what you look at is the different things that each of these players want. For President Trump, it's a ceasefire. He wants to end the war. He wants to negotiate a deal with possible land swapping components to that and a trilateral meeting after this meeting that would include President Zelenskyy.

Now, on the other hand, Russian President Putin is looking at control over all of Ukraine. Now, this is his maximalist position right here. He wants to demilitarize Ukraine as much as possible. No NATO membership for Ukraine and, of course, sanctions against Russia lifted as soon as possible.

Now, on the other hand, President Zelenskyy of Ukraine wants this, not giving up any land to Russia, wants to participate in peace negotiations, which Trump might give him, and he wants robust security guarantees. So that's why each of these things is very complex, Anderson. Each of these players has a different agenda, basically.

COOPER: Colonel Leighton, thanks very much.

Joining me now is retired Admiral James Stavridis, former NATO Supreme Allied Commander and senior military analyst. I'm wondering what your reaction is to seeing Vladimir Putin and seeing President Trump greet Vladimir Putin on this U.S. base for the first time since the Russian invasion.

ADM. JAMES STAVRIDIS (RET.), FORMER NATO SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER: Well, on the one hand, I kind of hate it. He's a mass murderer who is committing war crimes constantly. So all of that accrues to why should we welcome this guy on a red carpet in the United States? On the other hand, I think the best path to peace at this point has to go through Vladimir Putin.

So if you have to bring him to the United States, and by the way, the way I like to think of it anyway is he's been summoned, summoned to Alaska, a territory that Russia would dearly love to snatch back but never will. He is on U.S. soil and he is coming to see our president. So I'm kind of -- of two minds. At the end of the day, if we want to get to peace, and I think we do, having the meeting here, I think works.

[17:45:11]

COOPER: President Trump has said publicly that he doesn't think there's no way that -- that Ukraine under him would become part of NATO or would have a pathway to NATO. He said that he thought that was part of the reason there was a -- there's a war to -- to begin with. Do you think it's ever possible that Ukraine could -- could still join NATO?

STAVRIDIS: I absolutely do. You know, I get that question a lot, Anderson. Well, wait a minute, Admiral, you're a former Supreme Allied Commander. Why on earth would NATO want Ukraine into its alliance? Well, when this war ends, and it will end within negotiation, much like the Korean War ended, Ukraine will have the most highly blooded, experienced, innovative armed forces in Europe.

They're going to be producing a million drones probably a month, and they are highly motivated to continue to defend themselves. Do we want them on team NATO eventually? Absolutely. When does that happen? I could see President Trump's comment that won't happen on his watch, three and a half years.

I'd like to see Ukraine go into the European Union in the interim. And I think over time, Ukraine will end up in NATO. Final thought here, don't forget this scenario kind of played out in the late 1930s over Finland, which had to give up 10 percent of its territory to the old Soviet Union and declare neutrality.

Guess what? Today, Finland is a proud member of NATO. Ukraine will be too eventually.

COOPER: I want to ask you about something because I think is a really important point that maybe a lot of people don't really focus on, which is what is happening on the battlefield in Ukraine the -- is the future of warfare, at least for the next 10 years or so before more A.I. advances. The -- the drone warfare that's happening here, how behind is the U.S. in drone capabilities?

I'm talking about predators and highly expensive drones. I'm talking about, you know, commercial drones that -- that can be converted into, you know, lead dropping missiles. It -- it seems like the innovations happening on the battlefield, to your point, Ukraine's our experts now in this.

STAVRIDIS: Absolutely. And this is why of 100 different good reasons we ought to continue to support Ukraine, not only the democracy, the pushback on a evil dictator like Putin, the agrarian products of Ukraine, the oil and gas, the geopolitical position, reason number 97 out of 100 would be experience in drone warfare, innovation. We are learning from them constantly.

And by the way, we're not terribly behind in the U.S. military. For example, the U.S. Navy has something called Task Force 59 in the Persian Gulf, Anderson, where we've been experimenting with unmanned vehicles for quite some time. We're watching what's happening in Ukraine and learning a lot. We're paying it to our own systems.

COOPER: Yes. Admiral James Stavridis, appreciate it. Thanks very much.

[17:48:20]

Coming up, the countdown to the press conference after the high stakes meeting wraps up. Also have Vladimir Putin skills as a former KGB officer might play in his meeting with President Trump.

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COOPER: The clock is ticking. The historic meeting between Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump ongoing now lasting almost two hours. We are waiting for any kind of word and also any kind of appearance by the two world leaders. We do expect a joint press conference, which in some times we've seen we've expected a joint press conference and it ends up not being a joint press conference. We'll see what happens now.

We're also joined by Ambassador Taylor, the former U.S. ambassador to -- to Ukraine. For you, Ambassador, what would a -- I mean what's the most likely path to peace?

TAYLOR: First, ceasefire. And President Trump has some cards to play to get Putin to agree to that. He has talked about the kinds of sanctions that he could put on. He's talked about continuing to provide the weapons to Ukraine so that they can continue and so that the message to Putin is you can't wait us out, which is his strategy.

So first a ceasefire. And then for that 81 percent of Ukraine that is not occupied by the Russians, it goes on to the E.U. And it goes, I agree with the admiral that NATO is still on the table. They develop their economy. They develop their economy.

They go back to having elections and discussions, parliamentary discussions and freedom of the press, all of which have been constrained by this point. So they get on about the business. I don't know that there is an agreement that they will come to that actually ends this war.

COOPER: It sounded like Ambassador Bolton on the plane that President Trump talked about, well, perhaps there are some security guarantees that don't involve NATO. Does that make sense to you?

BOLTON: Well, I think Trump is very reluctant to have any U.S. involvement in the security guarantees. That's how you get no NATO membership in his tenure, no NATO security guarantees, because we are NATO. Why the British French proposal to put troops on the ground with the -- with the foundation unspoken being will come to their rescue if they run into trouble.

[17:55:03]

Trump's not going to agree to any of that. And I think -- I think that's a big part of the problem for Ukraine, because the security guarantees at this point are the most important deterrent against subsequent Russian action. And I don't see a good answer for them.

COOPER: Yes, it's been about two and a half hours since the Trump- Putin meeting began. They reportedly haven't even had lunch yet. Working through the hunger, I guess, could perhaps be a sign of progress. We don't know. We'll see. Take a short break.

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TAPPER: The historic meeting between President Donald J. Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin. It began more than two hours ago. It's still ongoing. Nobody has come out of it yet, so we don't know what's going on. Welcome to a special edition of The Lead. Live from Anchorage, Alaska. I'm Jake Tapper.

[18:00:01]

All of this diplomatic drama is unfolding just a few miles behind me at Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson.