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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Source Says, Trump Paused Meeting With Zelenskyy And European Leaders To Speak With Putin; Trump Questions Whether Ukraine Ceasefire Is Necessary; Trump Says, I Started Plans For Meeting Between Putin And Zelenskyy; Tariffs Overwhelm Virginia Tea Shop Reliant On Global Imports; "Ketamine Queen" Accused of Selling Fatal Dose To Matthew Perry Agrees To Plead Guilty. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired August 18, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:00:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Pamela Brown in for Jake Tapper.

We are following breaking news out of the White House where a full day of momentous diplomacy is still underway, as President Trump attempts to broker a peaceful into the war in Ukraine.

Last hour, President Trump paused a meeting with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and European leaders to speak with Russian Leader Vladimir Putin on the phone. That call just wrapped, we've learned. And the conference, Trump appeared to waffle on the idea of a ceasefire.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: All of us would obviously prefer an immediate ceasefire while we work on a lasting piece, and maybe something like that could happen. As of this moment, it's not happening.

FRIEDRICH MERZ, GERMAN CHANCELLOR: To be honest, we all would like to see a ceasefire, the latest from the next meeting on. I can't imagine that the next meeting would take place without a ceasefire. So, let's work on that and let's try to put pressure on Russia.

EMMANUEL MACRON, FRENCH PRESIDENT: Your idea to ask for a truce or a ceasefire at least to stop the killings as we discussed, is a necessity. And we all support this idea.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Remember now in mid-July, Trump gave Russian Leader Vladimir Putin a 50-day deadline to agree to a ceasefire or face severe consequences. Friday's Trump-Putin summit in Alaska came and went with no obvious consequences.

And Trump and Zelenskyy meeting earlier today was a far cry from that Oval Office blow up in February and Trump did offer Zelenskyy some relief besides the security guarantee, saying, definitively, this is not the end of the road for U.S. support to Ukraine, a contrast to what some Republicans, including his own vice president, J.D. Vance, have said.

CNN's Jeff Zeleny is at the White House. Jeff, what more do we know about this Trump-Putin call today?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pamela, we do know at this hour, President Trump and the European leaders, including Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, are now meeting in the Oval Office. So, we know that that phone call with Russian President Vladimir Putin is over. We do not know the duration of that call or exactly who else might have been on it.

We are told that the meeting paused for a while while the American president reached out to his Russian counterpart. Of course, that is extraordinary in and of itself, really on a day of really an extraordinary setting here. But it was that meeting in the Oval Office with Zelenskyy and Trump that really set the tone for a new moment of a cooperation, or at least that is the hope.

But you heard the questions there about the ceasefire. That is one of the few divisions we have seen here. Of course, on Friday when the president flew to Alaska, he said he's going to call for a ceasefire or there would be severe consequences. Of course, after that meeting, the idea of a ceasefire fell by the wayside. But it was the German chancellor and the French president who were really urging the American president to really rethink the idea of a ceasefire. And Trump said he was not against it, but he thought a ceasefire would ultimately delay a path to peace.

Now, the reality here is all of these leaders here meeting in Washington, at the White House, the meeting has gone on longer than expected, unclear exactly what that means. They may be spending some more time here in the evening as well. Some White House aide are planning for them to spend a bit longer here before the president sends them on their way, even a discussion potentially of a meal this evening that is unconfirmed. We will see if that develops. But there's no doubt that at least some progress that was reached, at least in that relationship with Trump and Zelenskyy, Pamela, so different than six months ago when he was thrown out of the Oval Office.

BROWN: Very different tone. And also Zelenskyy had his backup today with these European leaders.

ZELENY: We sure did.

BROWN: Of course, that changed the dynamic as well. Jeff, there was also a bit of a hot mic moment at the White House today. What happened?

ZELENY: There was when all the leaders were walking into the East Room, a bit of a revealing moment between the American president and French President Emmanuel Macron. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I think he wants to make a deal for me. Do you understand that? As crazy as it sounds.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So, Trump said, I believe he, meaning Putin, wants to make a deal with me, for me, as crazy as it sounds.

Now, it actually does not sound that crazy when you have heard Donald Trump talk for the better part of a year. He has long -- in fact, he campaigned on the idea that he could end the war on day one, all because of what he says and believes is a relationship with American presidents that stand apart from other relationships. Well, that clearly has not been the case. Putin has not been swayed. We are eight months into this administration. But President Trump saying there that he believes Vladimir Putin wants to make a deal, certainly gives you a sense of Trump's mindset.

[18:05:02]

So, Pamela, even though it was on a hot mic, it's actually something that we've heard Trump say similar in public.

BROWN: Yes, that is true. The, for me, is interesting. He wants to make a deal for me.

Jeff Zeleny, thanks so much.

And ahead of today's big White House meetings, President Trump host on social media saying, Zelenskyy can end the war, quote, if he wants to. But in order to do so, Zelenskyy needs to give up Crimea, illegally annexed by Russia in 2014, and abandon his bid for NATO membership.

CNN's Tom Foreman is here to walk us through the map. So, Tom, that's what Trump wants, but remind us, what do Ukraine and Russia want from a potential peace deal?

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Let's start with Russia, if we can, Pam. When he said he wants to make a deal, what he wants to make a deal for quite clearly is to normalize and make permanent not just Crimea, which they took back in 2014, but also the area up here, the Donbas, it's a coal region, a grain region, a very important area up there. And not only that, but there are indications from Russia, they don't want to just take the striped part there, which they are occupying, but the rest of it, and maybe more, maybe a land bridge from there down through these other areas, all the way down to Crimea, maybe all the way up to the Dnipro River over there. So, that's what Russia wants out of the deal.

What does Ukraine want? Absolutely the opposite. They would like Russia to go back to the Russian side, to all these areas that Russia surged into violating international norms, by attacking a sovereign neighbor. They want to say, get out of this, back up in every way, shape and form. You simply do not belong here. That's what Europe would like. And Donald Trump, as he said so many times, he seems to really just most of all want some kind of deal so we can deliver on that long- delayed promise that he could end this immediately, which, of course, he has not done. Pam?

BROWN: All right, so what about the European leaders? What do they want from this deal?

FOREMAN: The Europeans have something very much in common with Ukraine here. They want a security guarantee. They do not want for the Russians to push even deeper into the Donbas there, and then have an open, strong staging platform to hit the rest of Ukraine when they want, and then maybe go to Moldova and Belarus and Latvia and Lithuania. They are worried about future ambitions by Russia. They want security there. Ukraine wants security there, and they have reason to want security. Because, remember, after Crimea, Russia tried to say basically, hey, we're done, we're not going to do anymore, and yet here they are back.

So, those are the interest involved, most of all, most of all, what the Europeans want and the Ukrainians want is to say, international community, you must say to Russia, you will be punished for invading a neighbor. You don't get rewarded with any of the land you took. Whether they can make that deal, we don't know.

BROWN: All right. Tom Foreman, thanks so much.

Let's bring in CNN Senior Military Analyst and former NATO Supreme Allied Commander Admiral James Stravridis. Thanks for being here.

I first want to go with this news that came out during this show, this phone call between President Trump and Russian President Putin during this meeting with Zelenskyy, these European leaders that was put on pause for the phone call. What do you make of that?

ADM. JAMES STAVRIDIS (RET.), CNN SENIOR MILITARY ANALYST: I think it's a good thing. And my view is the more contact President Trump can have both with Zelenskyy and the European leaders and also with Putin, the higher the chances are that we can negotiate an ending to this.

A quick point to be made here, Pamela, you know, this life is compared to what and compared to how Zelenskyy was received in the White House some months ago, essentially thrown out without lunch. Well, now he's there with half a dozen of his best friends, the leaders of Europe, they're talking about having an evening meal together, if that requires a pause to check in with Putin, I'm all for it.

BROWN: Yes, It is striking how different today was. Hold on. I want to -- stay right there. I want to go back to Jeff Zeleny at the White House. We've got some breaking news. Jeff?

ZELENY: Pamela, we are getting our first read of what happened at these meetings this afternoon from the president himself just posting just a few moments ago on his Truth Social account. I'll read it with you together here. He's largely giving an optimistic view. He said, during the meeting we discussed security guarantees for Ukraine, which, of course, we saw out in public. He also says, everyone is very happy about the possibility of peace for Russia and Ukraine.

At the conclusion of the meeting, the president writes, I called President Putin and began the arrangements for a meeting at a location to be determined between President Putin and President Zelenskyy. After that meeting takes place, Trump writes, we will have a trilat, which would be the two presidents plus myself.

So, that is very interesting here, Pamela, President Trump is saying the first meeting, as we're reading this, would be between Putin and Zelenskyy by themselves, and then they would have a trilateral meeting between Putin and Zelenskyy and Trump.

[18:10:03]

He goes on to say, this is a good early step for a war that's been going on for almost four years. And he said that the vice president, secretary of state, and his special envoy, Steve Witkoff, are coordinating with Russia and Ukraine.

So, Pamela, summarizing this here, President Trump, again, putting a very positive, forward-looking spin on this. He said there were good developments today. And we do not know the central question that was on timing, when the timing of a meeting would be between Putin and Zelenskyy. The reason that's important, if it's set up very quickly, that is a sign that President Putin is seriously engaged in this, not like some of his critics fear that he is simply trying to buy a more time and will not schedule this, but then a separate trilateral meeting as well.

So, a bit of a difference there, Trump earlier was suggesting a trilateral meeting. A meeting of all three of them would be the first step. But it appears at least by this Truth Social, after Trump talked to Putin, it looks like a Zelenskyy-Putin meeting is coming up first.

BROWN: All right. Now, we know a little bit more about that call. Thanks so much, Jeff Zeleny.

So, let's get the reaction from the admiral. What do you think about this, a potential meeting first between Putin and Zelenskyy, and then a trilateral meeting?

STAVRIDIS: I'll take it. And I think what's really important, actually, Pamela, is the meeting after those two, a quad meeting. Yes, of course.

Hello?

BROWN: Oh, did we lose you, Admiral?

STAVRIDIS: Pamela, is --

BROWN: Yes, Admiral Stavridis, we're still live in the air.

STAVRIDIS: Yes.

BROWN: Can you hear me? STAVRIDIS: I thought somebody in my other ear is saying something. A quadrilateral meeting is what's really important. So, let's have the one-on-one, then let's have the trilat. The quad is when you bring in someone like Ursula von der Leyen from Europe, extremely important to get that European voice in there.

And as this unfolds, Pamela, I think what is going to be important is the degree to which Zelenskyy is going to be willing to give up some amount of territory, Crimea, what part of Donbas.

And I'll close with this, if you look at it pragmatically, the 20 percent of Ukraine that Russia currently occupies, it's been a war zone for three years now. It's a lot unexploded ordinance, destroyed infrastructure, a demoralized population. Reconstructing that is going to be an enormous bill that accrues to the Russian Federation.

So, as I look at it, if I were advising President Zelenskyy, I'd say, keep an open mind about what this deal could look like.

BROWN: It was interesting too, because today, unlike what we have heard previously from him, he didn't completely rule it out. He didn't say, we are not going to cede any territory, you know? He didn't go there. And so that was something that I was looking at, for sure. But when it comes to the Donbas region, some are looking at that and saying, well, if Ukraine gives that up, they're giving up a really strategic part of their land for national security, for economic reasons, to protect them from Russia. What do you say to that argument?

STAVRIDIS: I would say listen to the president of Finland, who, in the meeting during the Oval Office, talked about an event almost a hundred years ago when Russia invaded Finland. Ultimately, Finland gave up 10 percent of their territory. They maintained independence. They maintained neutrality for many years. Ultimately, they came into NATO. That's an interesting historical analog here.

Again, these are decisions for Ukrainians, not for Americans. But I would say to President Zelenskyy, keep an open mind to the deal that's kind of unfolding in real time in front of us.

BROWN: Admiral James Stavridis, thank you so much.

STAVRIDIS: You bet.

BROWN: Much more of our breaking news and moments as President Trump announces arrangements are underway for a meeting between Putin and Zelenskyy. That's next.

Plus, the two-week standoff is now over as Texas Republicans return to the State House greeted by supporters as the redistricting fight enters a new chapter.

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[18:15:00] BROWN: And we are back with our breaking news on the White House meeting between President Trump, the Ukrainian president and European leaders. President Trump just posting an update on Truth Social saying, quote, at the conclusion of the meetings, I called President Putin and began the arrangements for a meeting at a location to be determined between President Putin and President Zelenskyy. After that meeting takes place, we will have a trilat, which would be with the two presidents plus myself.

Joining us now to discuss, former Deputy Pentagon Press Secretary Sabrina Singh and founding partner and Washington correspondent for Puck, Julia Ioffe.

All right, Julia, what's your reaction to this news?

JULIA IOFFE, FOUNDING PARTNER AND WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, PUCK: First, wow. Second of all, you know, I'll believe it when I see it. And I think that's probably a lot of people's reactions given how Putin has been able to string this out. And, you know, from what I hear from Moscow, yes, Putin wants this war to end. He wants to wrap it up and secure his gains. He also sees no reason to stop now he sees the momentum as being at his back, the wind at his back. And so he's also expert at dragging things out at saying, well, let's look at the details.

And I really do think the details -- I mean the details matter, obviously everywhere. What is a security guarantee for Ukraine that would be enough for Ukraine but not too much for Russia?

[18:20:05]

And we saw the Russian Foreign Ministry, for example, today, lashing out, already saying that posting any troops from any of these countries on Ukrainian soil as part of a security guarantee for Ukraine would unleash, they said unlimited escalation of the war.

So, yes, like what is the security guarantee here? And this isn't really -- is it really a territory swap or is it Russia agreeing to release some Ukrainian land that it's holding. Again, we'll see.

BROWN: We don't know yet.

IOFFE: So, it could take -- it could go off the rails at any point.

BROWN: And it would be telling how quickly this bilateral meeting comes together, right? It could be a sign if it comes together very quickly that maybe Putin is taking this seriously. But if it doesn't, then could it be a sign that Putin is once again just dragging everyone along to try to take more land?

SABRINA SINGH, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I think the timeline is really what I would be paying attention to here, because it's fine that the president announced this on Truth Social, but at the end of the day, we've seen Putin continue to drag out this war and he's really being able to run down the clock, I mean, what he wanted to do. But, I mean, this administration had proposed an initial trilateral summit, which President Putin balked at and said, no, we'll do just a one-on-one meeting with President Trump in Alaska. And so he's really being able to run out the clock.

But I think an important point to make too is what does it look like when these two leaders meet? Is there going to be some type of temporary ceasefire that goes into effect while they meet, for how long? I think also the security guarantees, you know, it said that the U.S. would -- the Truth Social post said that the U.S. would coordinate with European allies on that. But what does that mean? Does that mean boots on the ground or does that mean continued military, you know, intelligence sharing, things that we've been doing already?

BROWN: Yes. And what do you make of the fact that there would be a bilateral and then a trilateral, as Trump said, the order of that?

IOFFE: Yes. I think because -- I mean, it's telling because, until now, Putin has really -- I mean, the entire Russian elite, because they're taking their signals from Putin just hates Zelenskyy. They hate him so much. They joke that he's a psychopath, that he's addicted to drugs. I mean, they really, really hate him. And the fact that Putin is, at least in theory, even agreeing to sit down at a table with him is, in theory, big. But, again, we'll see when it happens. I just -- I still don't fully believe it until it really happens.

BROWN: What did you make of Zelenskyy's performance, if you want to call it that today? It was very different from what we saw in February, and he did not openly defy Trump in front of the cameras. You know, we had heard him previously say, Ukraine will not give up any territory. He didn't do that today. Now, that was in front of the cameras. We don't know what happened behind closed doors. Sabrina?

SINGH: Yes. And I think he, he took a tone that was so different from what we saw earlier this year. You know, when he had that first initial Oval Office meeting and J.D. Vance and him went back and forth and, of course, the president, you know, really went at him pretty hard. I think this was definitely not only a different tone but it, I think it was the right one that he needed to take, frankly, in front of the cameras and in front of those European leaders. Like let's get through the meeting. I'm not going to openly tell, you know, disagree with you in public.

But he's been very clear in his posts as well. And, in fact, he sort of responded to Trump's Truth Social posts earlier this morning, saying that we're not going to give up territory that, frankly, the Russians don't occupy, which is what the Russians want. They want that Donbas area.

And so, you know, I think he struck the right tone. He's fighting for his life. He's fighting for his country. And he knows that President Trump is going to be part of whatever diplomatic relations happened between President Putin and himself.

IOFFE: So, I think what's important to remember is ever since February, we've seen all sides here trying to play this game with Donald Trump of who can say yes to him the longest while getting the other side to be the first to say no, right, to be the other side, to show that it's the other guy who's the problem, it's not us, it's Putin, it's not us, it's Zelenskyy. And it's clear that the Europeans and Zelenskyy went in here with a plan to say, let's give Trump the show he wants. Let's be nice. Let's all flatter him. Everybody took turns saying this wouldn't have been possible without you. You're incredible, Donald Trump. You're just such an amazing peacemaker. And then let's let Putin be the bad guy. We know Putin will eventually spoil it.

And so I think everybody's trying to out each other, hoping that the other guy is going to spoil it and that Donald Trump will be mad at the other guy and not at them. I still think that dynamic is still at play here.

SINGH: And the fact that Trump walked out of the meeting with European leaders and President Zelenskyy to take a call from President Putin, I think, does speak volumes to Putin's power here.

BROWN: Yes. And I guess, do we know, I don't know if we know if it was Putin that called him or, I think Trump said --

IOFFE: He called him.

[18:25:00]

BROWN: He called -- right, he called him. But, I mean, it is still notable that it was in the middle of the meeting.

Sabrina, Julia, thank you so much.

And much more in our breaking news, in moments, President Trump says he's arranging a meeting between Russian President Vladimir Putin and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. We're going live to Moscow and Kyiv, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: All right. We're back with our breaking news, as President Trump just announced he has started plans for a meeting between Russian President Vladimir Putin and Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelenskyy followed by a trilateral meeting that will include Trump himself.

CNN's Fred Pleitgen is in Moscow. And CNN's Ben Wedeman is in Kyiv. Fred, how is Russia reacting to this news?

[18:30:00]

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Pamela. Yes, just a couple of minutes ago, we actually got the readout from the Russian side. There was also a phone conference call that happened with Yuri Ushakov, a senior Kremlin aide, who's also been in all of the phone calls and negotiations with the Trump administration as well, and was also in the room in Alaska when President Trump and Vladimir Putin spoke there.

And he gave a readout of the call between Trump and Putin tonight. He said, Trump informed Putin about the recently -- I'm reading the bullet points here, by the way. Trump informed Putin about the recently concluded negotiations with Zelenskyy and the leaders of European countries. The presidents expressed support for the continuation of direct talks between the delegations of Russia and Ukraine. So, the Russians not necessarily talking about a Putin- Zelenskyy meeting in the near future. Of course, the delegations have actually been meeting for a while.

Putin and Trump discussed the idea of raising the level of direct Russian-Ukrainian negotiations. So, they are saying that there could possibly be raised to the level of the presidents. The presidents of Russia and the U.S. agreed to continue close contacts with each other on the Ukrainian crisis and other issues. Putin noted in the conversation with Trump, the importance of the efforts made by the U.S. president and the Ukrainian settlement.

So, the Russians obviously confirming that this talk took place confirming also that there was talk about a high level meeting between the Russians and the Ukrainians, possibly, of course, also involving the presidents of both countries, but not going so far as President Trump to speak about a bilateral and then possibly even a trilateral meeting. Pamela?

BROWN: All right. So, let's go over to Ukraine. Ben, how's it going over there?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we haven't gotten any reaction yet, Pam, from the Ukrainian presidency or any Ukrainian officials to this surprise announcement from President Trump that he's working to first arrange a bilateral meeting between Presidents Zelenskyy and Putin. It seems highly unusual that they would meet without somebody as a mediator in the middle.

The assumption has been for the last few days, since certainly the Alaska summit, that President Trump would continue to serve as a mediator in such a meeting. Because what we know is in the past when meetings have between these two bitter foes have been discussed, there's always been talk of somebody in the middle to try to bridge the gaps, the many gaps that exist between the two.

So, I think we're just going to have to wait for the Ukrainian delegation currently in Washington to comment on this surprise, yet another surprise announcement from President Trump. Pam?

BROWN: Lots of twists and turns. Fred Pleitgen in Moscow, Ben Wedeman in Kyiv, thanks you both.

Well, Texas Democrats return to the state today ending the standoff over the proposed redistricting maps. Wait until you hear how Republican officials are trying to make sure those Democrats can't leave the state again. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:35:00] BROWN: All right. Turning now to our Politics Lead, cheers for Democrats in Texas returning to the State House. This ends a 15-day standoff with state Republicans over a controversial plan backed by President Trump to redraw Congressional districts ahead of next year's midterm elections.

As that GOP plan plays out in Texas, Democrats in California are moving forward with their own plan to try to even the score create their own five seats.

Let's go to CNN's Arlette Saenz in Austin, Texas. So, tell us more about Democrats returning because now there is a quorum for this redistricting to move forward.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Pamela. And Republicans here in Texas are just one step closer to getting those new Congressional maps passed. These Texas House Democrats returned after that 15-day stay away, in part because there's not much more that they can do to try to block this piece of legislation from moving forward. Now, instead, their attention is going to turn to the upcoming lawsuits that will be pursued.

Now, GOP lawmakers have not set a timeline for when these new Congressional maps could be passed, but it could be as soon as this week, and that is when these Texas House Democrats plan to make their arguments that can be used in those legal cases.

Here is how the state representative, Gene Wu, who leads House Democrats here in Texas explained it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STATE REP. GENE WU (D-TX): So we are coming back to fight on our own terms, not on their terms. We are coming back to pursue the legal option now that we have an extra bit of safety with California coming on board and with other states potentially coming on board soon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: Now, while these Texas House Democrats ultimately won't be able to stop this map from moving forward, they are claiming that this quorum break was a success because they sparked that national conversation about redistricting. And this week, you will see underway in California their effort to try to counteract the maps that had been put forth by Texas. The California legislator is set to consider their own bills, potentially passing it as soon as Thursday.

But the big difference between Texas and California is that California voters will still have a say on these maps come November, and it's unclear whether they will be able to muster up enough support to get that crossed the finish line. The answer is still months away.

BROWN: Yes. So, what are the Republicans doing to make sure they have a quorum for Wednesday?

SAENZ: Well, that's a really interesting dynamic that is playing out here in the Austin State Capitol. When these Democrats returned today, the House speaker said that they were only allowed to leave the chamber if they signed a permission slip that authorized being followed by law enforcement for the next about 36 hours at this point, when the House is set to reconvene at 10:00 A.M.

There is actually one Democratic state representative who has refused to sign that slip.

[18:40:03]

That is Nicole Collier of the Fort Worth area. And she's currently camped out, confined on the Texas House floor in a sign of protest against signing that permission slip. But the rest are expected to come back on Wednesday.

BROWN: All right. Arlette Saenz, thanks so much.

And now let's go to what's playing out in California. Here now is Republican Congressman Kevin Kiley. He represents California's third district, a sprawling district along the California-Nevada border that includes parts of Lake Tahoe and Death Valley, and would change significantly of voters passed Governor Newsom's plan. Thanks for joining us.

So, now that both Texas and California appear to be moving full steam ahead, where does this end?

REP. KEVIN KILEY (R-CA): Well, that's a great question. I mean, you could well see this domino effect continue to ripple across the country where one state after another offends their district lines. I think it is a very unhealthy thing for democracy. I think it's bad for representative government. I don't think it's particularly good for either party. In fact, members of Congress and both parties hate it. The voters certainly don't like it. So, that's why I've actually introduced a bill in the House to bring this whole thing to an end saying that you don't redistrict, you can't gerrymander in the middle of the decade. And so that would hold effect in California, my state, in Texas, and in all 50 states.

In addition to that, I've called on the speaker of the House to establish a bipartisan commission to end gerrymandering nationwide in time for the next census, which is when we're actually supposed to be doing redistricting.

BROWN: And where do you think stand with your bill?

KILEY: Well, when Congress gets back in two weeks, I'm going to be using every possible measure that I can to get the bill to the floor for a vote. I mean, looking at my state of California, I'm extremely concerned for what I consider to be a threat to democracy.

Our voters spoke very clearly when they set up an independent citizens commission to do redistricting, saying that politicians should not be in charge of drawing their own district lines. That's an inherent conflict of interest. And so we've had that commission in place for 15 years to draw district lines in a neutral, nonpartisan way. And so the idea that we're going to overturn the will of voters and return this power to politicians, I think it's very undemocratic. And indeed, a poll from Politico just two days ago showed that voters stand by their decision. Two thirds of Californians, overwhelmingly Democrats, Republicans, independents say they want to keep our Independent Citizens Commission. They do not want to return to this era of partisan gerrymandering.

BROWN: And Governor Newsom, for his part, says that he's putting the independent commission on hold because this is an emergency and you have to fight fire with fire, that this all started with Republicans in Texas. What do you say to that?

KILEY: Well, I'd say when you fight fire with fire, the whole world burns. I mean, this fails the test of kindergarten logic, you know, two wrongs don't make a right. And so just because some other state is doing something that we don't like, doesn't mean that California voters should be deprived of fair elections and fair districts and having the representation that they choose.

And so I think that's why you see reflected in this poll that just came out two days ago. People weren't concerned in our state as much with what's going on in other states. They're concerned about our own election system, our own state, our own representation. And you saw over 60 percent of Democrats, over 60 percent of Republicans and over 70 percent of independents believe that we should have independent redistricting in California.

So, I think that it is absolutely unacceptable, that there's now this effort to have a $250 million special election to try to confuse voters into overturning the decision that they've already made.

BROWN: So, what is your message to those in your own party who support what Republicans are doing in Texas but oppose Democrats and what they're doing in your state of California?

KILEY: You know, there actually aren't a lot of people in my party, at least in the House, who support any of this. The Republican members of the House from Texas, they don't like what's going on.

BROWN: President Trump supports it, supports what's happening in Texas.

KILEY: Well, the president's had a lot on his plate. I do think that the speaker of the House in particular needs to step forward and show some leadership here. And I'd like to see the president take a different perspective as well now that he has a forward picture of everything that's going on.

So, I think that gerrymandering is bad wherever it occurs. I think it's particularly bad in California as there's an attempt to overthrow this independent commission and completely ignore the will of voters, but we need to move past this as a country. I mean, we have so much division in this country. I think maybe that's the one thing people can agree on, is that political division has become a big problem. And when we can't even agree on the rules of the game, you know, that is a -- that makes the problem even worse.

We should have vigorous debates when it comes to policy, when it comes to our different visions for the country. That's what democracy is all about. But we need to have some basic understanding about the rules of the game and the basic parameters for our politics. And I think that what you're seeing right now with Governor Newsom, for example, basically blowing up our state Constitution, saying nothing in the Constitution matters.

[18:45:06]

That's what this, this -- this special election would establish, except that gerrymandering is paramount. I think it's a very unhealthy thing for the country. This is not a road that we want to go down.

And so, I hope that when we get back to the House. My bill saying, all right, let's take a deep breath. Let's put this on hold. Let's not continue to allow this to spiral out of control.

I hope we can get bipartisan support for that and move on -- move on to the issues that really matter to the American people.

BROWN: All right. Let's talk about another issue. On that note, you serve on the judiciary committee today,

Republican oversight chairman James Comer said the DOJ will start sharing Jeffrey Epstein files with his committee starting Friday. Many members of your party have called for more transparency. Do you support those files being shared with the American public?

KILEY: Absolutely. I want as much transparency as possible. Of course, consistent with privacy concerns and confidentiality concerns for victims. I'm not on the Oversight Committee. But I am certainly in favor of as much transparency here as possible.

BROWN: All right. Republican Congressman Kevin Kiley of California, thank you so much.

KILEY: You bet. Thanks for having me.

BROWN: Our small business series takes us to Virginia next, where a tea shop sells more than 100 products from around the world with a big focus on community events. How have tariffs impacted their business? Are they raising prices on consumers? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:50:25]

BROWN: All right. It's time for our "Business Leaders" series, where we hear from small business owners from coast to coast about President Trump's tariffs.

Elden Street Tea Shop is located in Reston, Virginia. It sells more than 100 different types of loose leaf tea from around the world, and they also organize a variety of community events, tea festival, afternoon tea parties and much more.

Jake Tapper recently spoke with the owner, Rachel Rozner.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: You source most of your tea internationally. How have tariffs been impacting your business?

RACHEL ROZNER, OWNER, ELDEN STREET TEA SHOP: Thank you, Jake, for having me on the show. Currently, our tea is impacted 100 percent. We get, as you said, we get tea from all around the world as well as working with small batch tea blenders who also get tea from all around the world to make their custom blends.

So, it has a very huge impact on us.

TAPPER: Did you have to pay tariffs before all of this started in April on your imported products?

ROZNER: We did not. We actually -- there hasn't ever been a tariff on tea. This is the first time this has happened. And we currently have to pay a 27.25 percent tariff out of China. And any other tariffs that are going to be implemented in the next coming days.

TAPPER: I seem to remember reading something in a history book about a tax on tea, an unfair tax on tea. Have you had to raise your prices?

ROZNER: Yes. We have not had to raise our prices yet, but we will be raising them this fall depending on the amount of tariff that is going to be implemented will determine how much we will have to raise them.

TAPPER: In addition to selling your teas, your business also coordinates events for your community. Have your customers been affected by tariffs?

ROZNER: Yes, we have seen a huge drop in our in-person business. As you know, we are located right outside of D.C. and with all of the federal layoffs as well as these looming tariffs, people are becoming very -- changing how they're -- they're their spending, their finances. And so, we have definitely seen an impact on our business.

TAPPER: If you could get a message to President Trump about the tariffs, what would you say to him?

ROZNER: I would ask him to reduce the tariff, current tariffs to zero. As this is something that is impacts the American daily life, whether it's coffee or tea. We need to be able to have our daily morning rituals as well as, being able to -- be able to have a tea. Sorry, small business impact on the tea and coffee industry.

TAPPER: Well, I'll tell you something, Rachel. My dad is a -- I don't know what the term is for a tea head, a tea lunatic. He loves tea. So I'm about to pop on your website and get some for him.

ROZNER: Yes.

TAPPER: Is there? Elden? Do -- I just Google Elden street tea shop in Reston, Virginia? It will come up and people can order if they want?

ROZNER: Yes. So you can find us on social media as well as EldenStreet.com. And we have, like you said, over 100 different kinds of tea.

I will say that our tea stocks have been dwindling, because of these tariffs. And so, we are actually not able to get in our teas as quickly as we usually do because of two reasons. One is because of, fear buying. A lot of my customers are fearing that we're going to be increasing our prices. And two, because our suppliers are waiting to find out what's happening with the tariffs before they actually, replenish their supplies around the world.

TAPPER: Now, these tariffs --

ROZNER: This has a huge impact on our industry.

TAPPER: Yeah, these tariffs are just so disruptive to so many people.

Thank you, Rachel, and Elden Street Tea Shop is in Reston, Virginia. Thank you so much.

ROZNER: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: A woman known as the "Ketamine Queen" who was charged with selling Matthew Perry, the drug that killed him, has agreed to a plea deal. Those details, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:59:04]

BROWN: Our last leads start with our law and justice lead. A woman known as the "Ketamine Queen", who was charged with selling Matthew Perry the drug that killed him has agreed to plead guilty. She is the fifth and final defendant charged in the overdose death of the "Friends" star. The medical examiner ruled ketamine, which is typically used as a surgical anesthetic, was the primary cause of Perry's death.

And in our health lead, Texas health officials announced today the measles outbreak, centered in west Texas, is over after 42 days of no new cases reported. This period accounts for two incubation periods without transmissions. Since January, Texas has confirmed more than 760 cases and two child deaths from measles.

And in our pop lead, the Cambridge dictionary is adding new words often used on TikTok or by your chronically online kids. Those words skippity. Have you heard of that one? Tradwife and delulu. The dictionary added 6,000 words that reflect how the English language is changing, not just the ones that will make gen Z cringe.

Well, you can follow me on X @pamelabrownCNN. You can follow the show on X @TheLeadCNN. If you ever miss an episode of THE LEAD, you can listen to the show wherever you get your podcasts.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now.