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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump Rules Out U.S. Troops On The Ground In Ukraine; White House Says Putin Agreed To Meet Zelenskyy; C.A. Dems Face Friday Deadline To Pass New Congressional Maps; Texas GOP Poised To Pass New Trump-Backed Maps; Freed Israeli Hostage Details 505 Days In Captivity; Rep. Suhas Subramanyam (D-VA), Is Interviewed About House Oversight Chairman Says DOJ Will Share Epstein Docs Friday. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired August 19, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you so much to my panel. If only people could hear what we were saying in the breaks.

Pamela, I know you know what I'm talking about. Maybe, maybe it's actually better that they don't.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, yes. All right, Dana, thanks so much.

BASH: Have good show, Pam.

BROWN: Appreciate it. Great to see you. We're look for more in "The Arena" tomorrow, of course.

[17:00:30]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: President Trump says he sort of set up a meeting between Putin and Zelenskyy, but that's not what the Kremlin says. The Lead starts right now.

Will Russia and Ukraine come to the table and end more than three years of conflict? And will Trump be front and center for discussions? The new questions emerging as the White House rules out U.S. boots on the ground to help secure Ukraine from Russian attacks. Plus, a new plan to let the public see the Epstein files currently under lock and key at DOJ, the material that could be released and what will stay private as calls for transparency continue.

And breaking news right off the U.S. East Coast, Hurricane Erin already kicking up dangerous waves. How explosive the storm will get. Plus the new tropical storm system right behind it.

Welcome to The Lead. I'm Pamela Brown in for Jake Tapper. And we start with our world lead. The big question today, what exactly is President Trump prepared to offer in terms of concrete security guarantees for Ukraine?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's not a war that should have been started. You don't do that. You don't take -- you don't take on a nation that's 10 times your size.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: White House press Secretary Karoline Leavitt there referring -- well, that was Donald Trump referring to that interview on Fox this morning where Trump also falsely claimed Ukraine started the war.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is the president considering U.S. boots in the air as a form of a security guarantee?

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Look, that was something the president mentioned on his interview this morning. It is an option and a possibility. I can tell you he's definitively ruled out boots on the ground.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: All right, so there's the White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt. Also, Trump did mention he wanted to keep up the quick pace of negotiations, adding more people are dying every day a deal is not made. Overnight, Russia launched multiple attacks on Ukraine, killing at least eight people, sending a clear message after Monday's big meetings at the White House with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and European leaders. We're going to take you to the ground in Ukraine in just a moment.

But first, let's start with CNN's Kristen Holmes right there at the White House. Kristen, Trump also said he's sort of setting up a meeting between Putin and Zelenskyy. But then you have Russia's foreign minister refusing to commit to one today with what is the White House saying about that?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, this has been a big question. Why would the Kremlin not say that Putin has agreed to sit down with Ukrainian President Zelenskyy? So I asked Karoline Leavitt this, the press secretary, during a briefing today, here was the first time she answered that question.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Just a clarification when you said earlier about Putin agreeing to the meeting, the Kremlin seemed to indicate that Putin did not firmly agree to a bilateral. Did he agree to have a sit down with just Zelenskyy on the phone yesterday?

LEAVITT: I can assure you that the United States government and the Trump administration is working with both Russia and Ukraine to make that bilateral happen as we speak.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HOLMES: So it wasn't clear from that answer, but a reporter after me pressed her, saying, let's go back to Kristen's question, did Putin agree? And Karoline Leavitt said he has. Now, this is the first time that we are hearing that Putin has agreed to this sit down, this bilateral meeting with Zelenskyy. There are still a lot of questions as to what exactly that would look like.

The other question that we asked the press secretary was how long is Trump waiting -- would be willing to wait before he started to intervene. Because, remember, one of the things we're hearing from U.S. officials and from European officials is that they're worried that Putin is just kicking the can down the road. And essentially they didn't give, Karoline Leavitt did not give a timeline on how long Trump would be willing to wait for Putin to set up this meeting. But we do know that the president is eagerly anticipating this, and he is pushing both sides to set up a bilateral meeting.

BROWN: All right, so then on that note, there's been a lot of speculation, Kristen, about where this meeting might be held between Putin and Zelenskyy. What are you hearing about that?

HOLMES: Yes, there's been a conversation about a number of different places. Now, one thing I just want to remind our viewers is that Putin can't go just anywhere. There is a warrant out for his arrest by the international courts. That was from 2003 because of the Ukrainian war. So that's why he has ruled out almost all European countries.

But there have been a number of countries that have been floated that it would include Switzerland, Hungary, among others, they're still having these conversations. But right now it doesn't appear as though Putin has firmly set a time, which is obviously going to impact where exactly this is. Unclear how much the U.S. is going to be involved in the actual logistic planning when it comes to the bilateral. I have been told that most of the information -- most of the planning on the trilateral has been put on hold till they figure out that first meeting.

[17:05:17]

BROWN: All right, Kristen Holmes at the White House for us, thanks so much.

CNN's Ben Wedeman is in Ukraine's capital, Kyiv.

Ben, clearly Russia was sending a message with its biggest attack on Ukraine in weeks.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right. We saw overnight between yesterday and today, 270 drones fired at Ukraine, 10 ballistic missiles killing eight people. Sixteen of those drones were not intercepted. Four missiles made it through air defenses as well. This is the biggest aerial attack on Ukraine since the 31st of July.

So this certainly sends a message that despite all the good feeling that might have been vibrating through the White House yesterday, that Russia, if anything, is intensifying its attacks, that's a larger number of attacks than we've seen certainly in the last few days. Now, for its part, Ukraine did respond from its territory. It fired into the Luhansk region that is occupied by Russia, hitting two Russian ammunition dumps. So the Ukrainians definitely possess the ability to inflict pain on the Russians. Certainly not, however, on the scale that what Russia is doing to Ukraine.

Now, as far as where we go next, there's been a lot of discussion here about security guarantees. A bit of confusion since yesterday President Trump left open the possibility of U.S. military presence in Ukraine. Today, he ruled it out.

As far as this bilateral meeting goes, we heard President Zelenskyy say yesterday that he of course is ready and willing to attend at any time a one-on-one meeting with President Putin. However, his concern is that the Russians are going to impose, in his words, 100 preconditions which would make such a meeting largely purposeless. They are worried that for one thing, even though the White House is saying that President Putin has agreed to come, from the Kremlin itself, they are not saying a definite yes. In fact, the messages coming out of there are very ambiguous.

And if we look back over the last few years, President Putin, certainly his attitude is President Zelenskyy certainly isn't on his level. He wants to be seen with a world leader like President Trump. The Russians barely consider Zelenskyy to be a legitimately elected leader. They often point out that since the war began they haven't had presidential elections here. So for some reason or those reasons, President Putin may not actually end up going to a bilateral meeting.

So here the attitude is it could happen, but nobody is holding their breath. Pam.

BROWN: Different messages for sure. Ben Wedeman in Ukraine, thanks so much.

Joining us now is CNN Military Analyst, retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton.

All right, so, Colonel, great to see you. French President Emmanuel Macron said at the Coalition of the Willing, this is a group of Ukraine's allies, it does not include the United States, they would need to provide, quote, "Forces at sea, in the air and on the land," and suggested Ukraine needs extra boots on the ground. So help us understand what that might look like.

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, so this is going to be very interesting. So just physically looking at the map of Ukraine, Pamela, we've got the area that the Russians are controlling right now, which is mainly in the eastern part of the Donbas region, as well as in the south, including the areas of Zaporizhzhia and Kherson. And of course, before that, they controlled in 2014, they got Crimea and this part of the Donbas region.

But when it comes to the kinds of things that we might see with a sea, land, air type thing, go back to the 1990s when we did this in with NATO in Bosnia and Herzegovina, when we were working against the Serbs and trying to protect the Muslim minority in this particular area, we had 60,000 NATO troops show up there. Or go to the Korean peninsula where you had, you know, in the 1950s, of course, you had the Korean War. This is the demilitarized zone right here. This zone right in this area was what was agreed to in the armistice. We still do not have a treaty that ended the war, the Korean War.

So technically, the Korean War is still going on. There are 28,500 U.S. troops that are deployed there. And -- then we get go to, you know, the more recent period that is, you know, the 1990s, the early 2000s, we had the no fly zones in Iraq. We had troops in the northern -- the Operation Northern Watch, the northern no fly zone, and Operation Southern Watch. So for these areas, we had about 40,000 troops circle through this during the time period in which we were doing these is basically the idea here was to prevent Saddam Hussein from attacking minority groups, either the Kurds in the north or various minorities here in the south.

[17:10:35]

So these are the kinds of things that would be possible. Now, from the specific Ukrainian aspect, the idea would be to, first of all, assist European forces. The idea would also be to enhance our defense industrial base. Intelligence gathering would be a critical aspect. And of course, you know, with all of this comes logistics. And the key thing here would be to assist Ukrainian air defenses.

So part of that might include having F-35 deployed to something like this as well.

BROWN: Yes, let's pick up on that, because you had President Trump mention that the U.S. might supply air support. Let's listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: When it comes to security, they're willing to put people on the ground. We're willing to help them with things, especially probably if you talk about by air, because there's nobody has kind of stuff we have.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So expand more on what other security guarantees the U.S. could provide. Because we know yesterday President Trump also didn't rule out U.S. boots on the ground, today he did. But when it comes to air support, a different tone.

LEIGHTON: Yes, absolutely. So this would be one asset. This is some of the stuff we have, to use the president's words. In F-35, we also have reconnaissance aircraft such as the RC-135. This is a signals intelligence collection platform, and it can collect all kinds of data, all kinds of radio and communications and radar signatures.

And then, of course, we have the AWACS. This is a NATO AWACS, but it's the same basic platform that is used by the U.S. Air Force. And this is an air surveillance aircraft. And it's basically designed, when you look at the big map, to be able to cover areas like this. And it can even do this without flying over Ukrainian airspace.

It can, for example, fly over Romania and look into this part of Ukraine, or it can fly in the Black Sea and look over with all these areas. And these assets are capable of doing this, Pamela, because they have these standoff capabilities. So then what you'd see is the data being fed to the Ukrainians from U.S. assets and potentially either through the other European nations or directly to the Ukrainians or a combination of that. And what that would do is that would give us a complete air picture of what's going on there. And of course, the other thing that the Ukrainians are looking at, air defenses in the form of Patriot missiles, more of that to protect the areas that they need to protect, because as Ben was talking about in his reporting, when you look at the damage that is happening in places like Kyiv, Kharkiv and of course, all throughout this part of Ukraine, it becomes really important to have those air defenses there plus all the intelligence that could help them protect themselves.

BROWN: All right, Colonel Leighton, thanks for making us all smarter, as you always do as we learn this. Thank you.

LEIGHTON: Thank you, Pam.

BROWN: And let's go live now to Moscow, where the Kremlin so far is not committing to a meeting with Zelenskyy. What else we're hearing in Russia today ahead. But first, the vote tomorrow led by Republicans that could change the congressional map in Texas. Are Democrats putting too much faith in another state, California, to even the score? I'll ask the top House Democrat in Texas after his members once skipped town trying to avoid this very vote.

And then later, President Trump's escalated threat against Smithsonian museums and why he says exhibits are so out of control.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:18:02]

BROWN: In our politics lead today, California's battle to redraw its congressional maps is headed to the state Supreme Court. California Republicans call Governor Newsom's plan unconstitutional. It would let voters decide this fall whether maps could be temporarily redrawn. Here's a California state Republican just today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TONY STRICKLAND, (R) CALIFORNIA STATE SENATE: He's destroying democracy in California if he's successful. Because what will end up happening is we won't have any competitive seats throughout the state of California and the voters will have no voice. That's not good for Democrats, Independents or Republicans, or for our democracy. And when does it stop?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Newsom insists California is only responding to what is happening in Texas, which is expected to approve a new map back by President Trump ahead of next year's midterms. Joining us now is the leader of the state House Democrats in Texas, State Representative Gene Wu. Nice to see you.

So you've called the walkout by your party for two weeks, quote, "successful beyond our wildest dreams." But Republicans in Texas are going to get exactly what they want, a new congressional map they think will give them an edge in the midterms. What exactly did Democrats accomplish?

GENE WU, DEMOCRATIC LEADER, TEXAS STATE HOUSE: So the single biggest thing that we did was warn the entire nation and get people fired up about it. Would you be asking me these questions if we had not done the walkout, right? And look, we had prepared to be out for weeks, if not months, to not only get California on board, but to get other states to start talking about it, and we were prepared to do that. But California came on board in one week and other states, New York, Illinois, started talking about it immediately. The national conversation has changed.

There's pretty much every adult in America now knows what redistricting and what gerrymandering is. That's an immense victory.

BROWN: So you feel like you got the publicity you were seeking by doing this walkout, even knowing that the inevitable would be happening with Republicans getting what they want there in Texas. And you mentioned the efforts of other states like California, but it's not a sure bet in California. I mean, California Republicans are seeking to block that plan in court. You have a recent political poll that found nearly 2/3 of California voters prefer leaving the decision to an independent redistricting commission. Does that concern you?

[17:20:26]

WU: No, not at all. Because those polls don't actually ask the right questions, as do you like the redistricting commission? And everyone does, and we do, too. But the thing is, Republicans try to block it every single time in every single state that they control. Here, what they're actually doing is saying we're not even changing the maps, we're going to put in a trigger to say if Texas illegally redistricts in the midterms, then these maps will go in effect.

But if Texas doesn't do what is illegal and is unconstitutional, then nothing will happen. That's a safety valve. That's a protection not only for Texas but for the entire United States. California does not want to do this, but they're being forced to because Texas Governor Greg Abbott refuses to stand up for his own state. He only cares about what Washington, D.C. tells him to do.

BROWN: So if it's illegal and unconstitutional, as you say, do you think you're going to prevail in court?

WU: Well, yes, and here's why, California's maps will not be drawn based on racial basis. It will not be discriminatory based on race. It will not be illegal on constitutional grounds. Texas' map, however, is probably the worst racially gerrymandered map since the Jim Crow days. BROWN: And that is something, as you well know, Republicans in the state say that that's not true. This is about political competitiveness. But you're bringing it to the courts. We'll see how it plays out. Racial gerrymandering is unconstitutional.

Yesterday I spoke to a Republican congressman from California who is against what's happening in your state of Texas, but he's also against what's happening in California. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN KILEY (R-CA): When you fight fire with fire, the whole world burns. Just because some other state is doing something that we don't like doesn't mean that California voters should be deprived of fair elections and fair districts and having the representation that they choose.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So he's saying, look, two wrongs don't make a right. What is your response to that?

WU: Well, how come his colleagues in Texas don't say that? How come his colleagues in other states don't say that? How come in every single state where Democrats try to put in a nonpartisan registrar commission, it's always Republicans who vote against it and block it, right? Those two things are not the same. Democratic districts all around this country are drawn by nonpartisan commissions.

And here you have Republicans who are continuing to abuse the system to lie, cheat and steal their way into power and we turned a blind eye to it. If this really should have -- what he fears, what he needs to do is support a national complete ban on partisan redistricting, push through a national bill --

BROWN: Yes.

WU: -- that would make all election cycles, all districts redrawn by nonpartisan commissions.

BROWN: Well, he has proposed a similar bill.

WU: We love to see that (inaudible) for that for years. Republicans had blocked it.

BROWN: So, I want to show this video quickly of your colleague, Nicole Collier, who has refused to sign on to a police escort in an effort to make sure Democrats are present in the state House when the vote takes place. Instead, she's choosing to sleep on the House floor. And we're learning that more House Democrats will join her in protesting tonight. What can you tell us?

WU: Well, I spent the night here in the chamber with her because I promised her that I would keep her company. And she was just over there. Actually, she's right there shooting video, probably for another station. But look, Nicole, when she came back, what she said was in that moment, she was -- she had enough. She was tired.

She was done with the bullying, done with their harsh tactics, done with this type of authoritarian behavior where this -- remember, this is a fight over political issues. This is a fight over public policy. This is a civil discussion and there's a disagreement. And in order to win, the other side is willing to use force to use the arms of the state to get what they want. Good guys don't do that.

BROWN: All right. Texas House Minority Leader Gene Wu, thank you very much.

[17:24:47]

Up next, a CNN exclusive, CNN's Clarissa Ward with a powerful interview with a man once held by Hamas, now free, his horror in captivity often held deep inside tunnels. What the terrorists told him and what life is like today six months and to his freedom.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Back with the world lead, negotiations are taking place around the clock to secure the release of hostages still held by Hamas, that today to families from the hostage coordinator for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. CNN's Clarissa Ward sat down for an exclusive and powerful interview with one former hostage, wondering whether he can ever heal.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELIYA COHEN, FORMER HOSTAGE: I feel guilty. I feel guilty by myself. When I eat, I feel guilty. When I get shower, I feel guilty. When I go to the hospital to check something, I feel guilty because I know what they -- what they go through right now.

[17:30:04]

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Eliya Cohen has been free for six months, but he's still imprisoned by the knowledge that his fellow hostages are not. Eliya and his girlfriend, Ziv Aboud, were at the Nova Music Festival on October 7th, 2023. When rockets started raining down, they ran to a shelter, only to come under attack by Hamas militants.

COHEN: And they threw the first grenade inside. The grenade exploded and killed the most people in -- at the entrance. At that moment, I jumped on -- on -- on Ziv and I told her, Ziv, I love you. I took dead bodies and -- and I covered me and Ziv to survive. They came inside and they started to shoot, and -- and then I got shot in my leg.

WARD: What's going through your mind in this moment?

COHEN: I really started to pray to God, to tell him, God, I love you, please keep me alive. And they came inside, and when I opened my eye -- when I opened my eyes, I saw them filming us with a big smile. And when I came out of the shelter, I saw -- I saw so many people with RPG, with grenades, with Kalashnikov. With a lot of tools to kill people. They were so high. For me, I saw them, they laugh, they sing like -- like a crazy people.

WARD (voice-over): Eliya was bundled onto the back of a truck and taken to Gaza. Also on that truck, Israeli-American Hersh Goldberg- Polin. His hand blown off trying to throw a grenade out of the shelter, the pair would later be held together for a short time.

COHEN: We talk -- we talked a lot for three days. After three days, they told him that, Hersh, wake up, you go to your mother. It's a happy day, you go to your mother, be happy. And he gave me his book. He got -- he got some book in English. I didn't know how to speak English before.

WARD: You didn't know how to speak English before?

COHEN: -- speak in English before. He told me, take it from me, because I go home. Keep it -- keep it for you. So it really gave me power to continue, because I said to myself that Hirsch came back home. May he will come to my mother and to my father to tell them that I'm alive. And I will be OK.

WARD (voice-over): But Hersh never came back home. He was executed by Hamas, along with five other hostages.

COHEN: So for me, it was difficult, because I really love him. We were for three days, but it felt like we were friends for 10 years.

WARD: I'd love to get a sense from you of the bond between hostages.

COHEN: The experience there and the connection of us, you know, the situation made us really connected. We really love each other.

WARD (voice-over): Most of Eliya's captivity was spent deep in tunnels, alongside fellow hostages, Or Levy, Alon Ohel and Eli Sharabi. He says he went an entire year without brushing his teeth. At one point, surviving on a single can of beans shared between them each day.

COHEN: I can tell you about a lot of situations that they came and really tried to do any torture to laugh on us like --

WARD: Mind games.

COHEN: Yes, like mind games. You can call it mind games. After something like eight -- eight months without mattress, without nothing, we slept on the floor. They came with a big smile and they told us, we have big good news for you. We gave you a -- we -- we gave you mattress, but we have bad news. We gave you just three. So check -- check who slept on the floor and who will -- who will sleep on the floor and who will sleep on -- on the -- on the mattress. And we look to each other, you know, no -- nobody wants to continue to sleep on the floor after so many days we tired.

One of the hostages, his name is Alon Ohel, and that's still there. He came and told to -- to the terrorist, give the mattress for them. I will sleep on the floor. WARD (voice-over): After 505 days, Eliya was finally released. Reunited with his parents and his girlfriend, Ziv, who he had assumed was killed in the shelter.

COHEN: And then I met Ziv. And it was like -- it was like a dream. For -- for a week, it felt like a dream. I look at her and I told her, Ziv, I can't -- I -- I can't believe you're -- you're here. Because I saw she survived.

WARD: And now you guys are getting married. Is that right?

COHEN: I can tell you this in the news.

[17:35:02]

WARD (voice-over): Since his release, Ziv is always by his side.

COHEN: She wants to join us.

WARD: She wants to join us. OK. Let's put a microphone on you. I mean, Ziv, did you ever let yourself imagine that moment while you were waiting for Eliya?

ZIV ABOUD, ELIYA's GIRLFRIEND: No, not really, because I was scared. I never let myself to -- to imagine this moment because I don't want -- I didn't want to fall, you know. I told to myself, I believe just when I see that Eliya crossed the border to Israel with, you know, with soldier. And this is the moment that I look and told to myself, OK, now you can breathe.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WARD: In an interview with Israeli media during the ceasefire, Eliya said that he worried that if the fighting continued, it would be, quote, a death sentence for the hostages. In our conversation, he was very careful not to criticize Prime Minister Netanyahu or his plan to occupy the whole of Gaza. But other hostage families have been more outspoken about their fears.

Clarissa Ward, CNN, Jerusalem.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:40:42]

BROWN: In our Law and Justice Lead, today, the House Oversight Committee confirmed its plans to publicly share some of the Epstein files once they're handed over by the Justice Department. A committee spokesperson says the panel will redact the files to shield victims and other sensitive matters.

And this comes just one day after former Attorney General William Barr sat for a closed-door deposition at the committee's Epstein probe. Joining us now is Democratic Congressman Suhas Subramanyam of Virginia. He is only one of two Democrats on Bill Barr's deposition today. So hopefully you can share a little bit about what happened. And before we talk about Barr, I just want to get your reaction to the news I talked about with these files being shared publicly with some redactions.

REP. SUHAS SUBRAMANYAM (D-VA): Yes, you know, the reality is they need to release the full unredacted files because what they seem to be doing instead is releasing piecemeal files that they want to release.

And that's not the transparency that the American people deserve. That's not what was promised. That's not what was promised on the campaign trail all these years when they said that the files were being hidden from the American people, that there was something in the files that they needed to see.

The reality is that back in February, the AG Pam Bondi said that she had the full files on her desk ready to release, and then somehow something changed. And I want to know what changed. And what I do know is Elon Musk tweeted out that the reason they hadn't been released was because the President was in the files.

So I want to know what the President's involvement was in this. I want to know where it mentions him and why he's in it and how. And so, we're not getting that with piecemeal releases of the files because the attorney general right now is acting like the president's personal lawyer.

BROWN: So you're not satisfied with how DOJ is responding to the subpoena?

SUBRAMANYAM: Not at all, because they're just releasing what they want to release. That's the reality of it.

BROWN: Have they even did anything over yet? I know that Chairman Comer said it would be Friday, but --

SUBRAMANYAM: Well, the deadline was today.

BROWN: The deadline was today.

SUBRAMANYAM: I haven't seen anything, certainly. I'm wondering whether they're going to release it to only members of the committee and not to the public either. There's a lot of questions answer. I want to know they're choosing to release and why they're choosing to release it in this sort of manner as well.

Is it because of the volume of the case files that they have? I don't know. But what I do know is this isn't what they promised, which was a full, unredacted file and any lists as well that people have been talking about for years now that were supposedly covered up by the previous administrations.

BROWN: Right. And in that memo from DOJ that said the case is closed, we're not releasing anything further. They said there is no client list and that Jeffrey Epstein did die by suicide. And you were in the deposition with Trump's former Attorney General, Bill Barr, and you said that you have more questions now than you had before that meeting. What are those questions? Why did it leave you wondering?

SUBRAMANYAM: A couple of things. One, I want to know why Alex Acosta was not subpoenaed. He was the prosecutor who was also part of the Trump administration later that let Jeffrey Epstein off the hook, essentially, with the sweetheart plea deal.

I also want to know -- the reality was the wrong AG was in the room, right? Pam Bondi needed to be the person we were actually talking to because she has the files. But, you know, the fact is that nothing in that testimony really cleared the President in my mind.

What really needed to happen was we needed to hear from this current AG about what's going on. Instead, we got a lot of sort of discourse about what happened a while back. That -- and, you know, the reality is we didn't get any answers that we needed.

BROWN: Do you think that Democrats should have been more outspoken during the Biden administration for the release? You know, obviously Democrats are much more vocal now, but perhaps under the Biden administration, you could have been more successful getting what you want.

SUBRAMANYAM: Well, the message that was coming from the current AG, current FBI Director and Deputy FBI director, was that there was a huge cover up, right? And this was a campaign promise that we're going to release all of the files, right. And we're going to get to all those dirty Democratic politicians that were in it, but yet we haven't seen the files.

So why not? What happened? What's different? I'm all about, you know, I'm new to Congress, so I wasn't here last year. But now that I'm here, I'll say that I want the files released. Even before some of this was happening, I wanted to see Pam Bondi release these files because the American people deserve that transparency.

BROWN: During the Bill Barr deposition, is there anything that you can share with us that would be of interest to the American public?

SUBRAMANYAM: You know, what -- what the other side is saying is that this -- that this did not implicate implicate the President in any way, that it cleared the President. That's simply not true.

[17:45:03]

The reality is that Bill Barr, when he was attorney general, he didn't have any special insight. The Southern District of New York was conducting this investigation, and so anything Bill Barr was saying was mostly conjecture related to whether the President was involved in his level of involvement.

And so there was nothing in there that really cleared the President of any wrongdoing. I think until we had Pam Bondi and Alex Acosta to be able to testify, we're not going to get the answers that we really want.

BROWN: And have you spoken to Chairman Comer about this? SUBRAMANYAM: We have asked him to -- to include them in their subpoena list, and I'm going to continue to push for that.

BROWN: And what are you -- what kind of response are you getting in terms of why they are not included in this round of subpoenas?

SUBRAMANYAM: You know, the reality is I think this is becoming a partisan process. It started bipartisan. This started in a way where both Democrats and Republicans were looking for answers. But it seems like the Republicans are backing to their old habits of -- of just pulling the back for the President and trying to help block and tackle for the president.

Meanwhile, Democrats were the ones actually asking the tough questions in that testimony a couple days ago. And -- and the reality is that moving forward, it seems like Democrats are more interested in getting transparency and answers.

BROWN: All right, so today House Rules Committee Chairman Virginia Foxx said the committee's work may resolve the need for a major House vote in releasing the Epstein files. What do you think about that?

SUBRAMANYAM: I'm up for a vote. If they want to put it to the vote, we can do that. I'm -- I'm happy to do that.

BROWN: Yes. Well, she said the committee's work, yes, may resolve the need for one. That's what she's saying.

SUBRAMANYAM: Perhaps, yes, but I would love to have a vote. I'd love to see all the Republicans who were clamoring for these files to vote to release them. And I'd like to see the administration, which is also promising to release the files, actually release them.

BROWN: All right, Congressman Subramanyam, thank you so much.

SUBRAMANYAM: Thank you.

BROWN: Appreciate it.

We have some new drone video just in. It shows homes along North Carolina's outer banks considered very vulnerable as Hurricane Erin brushes the U.S. East Coast. The dangerous situation as the system nears, up next.

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[17:51:20]

BROWN: In our National Lead, new drone video shows powerful waves hitting homes sitting on North Carolina's coast right ahead of Hurricane Erin. The storm is already creating life-threatening rip currents right along much of the East Coast. This as new tropical systems are forming right behind Hurricane Erin. So let's go to CNN meteorologist, Derek Van Dam. Derek, show us where Erin is headed.

DEREK VAN DAM, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Pam, 24 hours ago, we were staring down the eye of a monster Category 4 hurricane, but now the satellite representation of Hurricane Erin is a distant, former shell of itself. Look at how disheveled, almost unorganized this hurricane is looking.

But don't let the looks deceive you because it's still a formidable storm and it's going to pack quite a punch, at least in terms of the amount of water that it's going to push up into the eastern seaboard. Let me explain the area of tropical storm force winds that's highlighted in this shading of yellow hurricane with red. Watch how it expands in size, nearly doubling in size by the time it makes its closest approach to the east coast, which would be just off the shore of North Carolina.

The chance of tropical storm force winds are increasing right along the outer banks of North Carolina. So keep that in mind. This storm likely to stay just below that major hurricane status as it kind of kicks between the uprights here, the Eastern Seaboard and Bermuda. But one thing's for sure, the expanding wind field will push up a lot of water from the Atlantic Ocean and that will send 15 to 20 foot seas into the coastline right along the outer banks.

Even those east and southeastern facing shorelines will be vulnerable to coastal erosion. Also, the storm surge threat across this region with warnings in place, we have riptide risks in place for nearly 2,000 miles of real estate along the eastern seaboard. And then the parade of storms continues behind what is hurricane Erin. Pam?

BROWN: All right, Derek Van Dam, thanks so much. Well, Erin's impact already is being felt. North Carolina alone reports around 90 rip current rescues just yesterday. CNN's Dianne Gallagher is on North Carolina's outer banks. Dianne, evacuation orders are in effect there. Do people seem to be listening?

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So the mandatory evacuation orders are for two specific areas, Hatteras Island and Ocracoke Island. And I can tell you, based off of the lines of cars we saw trying to get to the ferries yesterday and this morning, people do seem to be heeding that warning. The rest of the barrier islands, that is not a mandatory evacuation, but they are telling people, if you're staying, don't get in the water.

And you can see, look, there's still plenty of families out here in Nags Head who are hanging out. It's a gorgeous day. If we come down to the water, we are in high tide now. And Pamela, if you take a look, you can see the waves are churning and the danger is those ripped currents that were talking about.

Now the good news is in the areas that we're seeing those intense number of rescues yesterday, far fewer today. They're hoping that people choose to stay out. There are no swim advisories from here to New York except for surfers. I will say in Dare County they said no swimming, but surfers are still allowed.

Now, Pamela, the big thing here is going to be of course, the rip currents for safety, but it's storm surge, as you heard Derek say, and it's those waves. And that's because of the geo -- the geographic uniqueness of the outer banks. We're talking about in some areas only 150 yards from ocean to sound. In the widest part it's about three and a half miles and they're all connected by Highway 12.

It has not fared so well in some of the past hurricanes, honestly, in some past storms. And so the concern there from officials, emergency managers, Pamela, telling residents and tourists if the road breaks, if we cannot get to you, it may be weeks, excuse me, more than a week, days before we can get to you. So please be prepared.

[17:55:02]

BROWN: All right. Dianne Gallagher, important information right along North Carolina's outer banks. Thanks so much.

Well, the White House insists a plan is in the works for a meeting between Vladimir Putin and Volodymyr Zelenskyy. What is the Kremlin saying today about a potential face to face? We're going to go live to Russia, up next.

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BROWN: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Pamela Brown in for Jake Tapper. And this hour, the White House claims preparations are now underway for a meeting between Vladimir Putin and Volodymyr Zelenskyy. CNN has brand new reporting this hour about potential locations for not just the one on one, but also the possible trilateral meeting after including President Trump.

Plus, the President this afternoon escalating his attacks on the Smithsonian museums, claiming they're too focused on highlighting negative aspects of American history, including quote, how bad slavery was. What the President is ordering his lawyers to do about his concerns.

[18:00:03]

Also, is Dan Bongino on his way out at the FBI? And what appears to be a first for the --