Return to Transcripts main page

The Lead with Jake Tapper

White House Says Putin Agreed To Meet Zelenskyy; Trump Says There's A Warmth Between Him And Putin; Missouri A.G. To Serve As FBI Co-Deputy Director With Dan Bongino; Home Depot Says It Will Raise Some Prices Due To Tariffs; China Makes Plans For Diplomatic Office In Heart Of London. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired August 19, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:00:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Pamela Brown in for Jake Tapper. And this hour, the White House claims preparations are now underway for a meeting between Vladimir Putin and Volodymyr Zelenskyy. CNN has brand new reporting this hour about potential locations for not just the one-on-one but also the possible trilateral meeting after, including President Trump.

Plus, the president this afternoon escalating his attacks on the Smithsonian Museums, claiming they were too focused on highlighting negative aspects of American history, including, quote, how bad slavery was.

[18:00:00]

What the president is ordering his lawyers to do about his concerns.

Also, is Dan Bongino on his way out at the FBI? In what appears to be a first for the agency, it's getting a co-deputy director just weeks after Bongino had a falling out with most of his colleagues over the handling of the Jeffrey Epstein files.

And it could be become the biggest embassy in Europe, right in the heart of London. But this project by the Chinese is drawing some serious security concerns, as critics worry it could be used to harass or even detain opponents of China's government.

Well, The Lead tonight, new answers and new questions about the details of a potential peace agreement between Russia and Ukraine one day after Trump met with European leaders, Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, and spoke with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Now, the White House says today that Putin directly promised Trump that he would have a meeting with Zelenskyy, but where do those arrangements stand?

Let's go to CNN's, Jeff Zeleny for more on that. Jeff?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pamela, there are certainly more questions about the timing of that meeting and the fact of if it will ever even happen. But before the Kremlin agrees to it, which they have not, the White House is already looking at possible locations for that first meeting between Vladimir Putin and Volodymyr Zelenskyy, and potentially a second meeting with President Trump also joining via two.

Switzerland and Hungary are being mentioned as possible places. Switzerland volunteered earlier today saying that they would effectively lift the criminal arrest warrant by the ICC for Vladimir Putin if they would want to have this in Switzerland. The Hungary government has also volunteered, but, again, none of this can happen until the Kremlin agrees and Vladimir Putin agrees to this meeting, something he is not. He rarely even acknowledges Volodymyr Zelenskyy certainly by name. So, that is one of the many questions hanging over all of this.

But at the White House Press briefing today, Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt told our colleague Kristen Holmes, the White House is confident that Putin will attend.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And how long is Trump willing to wait and operate in good faith for Putin to actually arrange a meeting before he intervenes?

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Look, the president has put tremendous public pressure to bring this war to a close. He's taken actions, as you've seen, sanctions on India and other actions as well.

He's made himself very clear that he wants to see this war end, and he has scoffed at the ideas of others that have been raised that we should wait another month before any meeting takes place. The president wants to move and he wants to bring this war to an end as quickly as possible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So, there's no doubt that the president wants this meeting to happen and happen quickly, but there are many questions if the Kremlin is also seeing that. One other potential gathering is the United Nations General Assembly, which, of course, meets every September. That is just about a month away. And Vladimir Putin, of course, has attended UNGA meetings in the past.

But, Pamela, one other development still hanging over all of this, so President Trump insisted earlier today that now he is not going to send U.S. troops on the ground in Ukraine. That really raises questions about the security guarantees that he explicitly pointed out to yesterday.

So, for all of the movement going forward here, at least the door being open for dialogue, there are as many questions tonight, as there have been for weeks. Pamela?

BROWN: All right. Jeff Zeleny, thanks so much.

Let's go live now to CNN's Fred Pleitgen in Moscow. Fred, the White House says Putin told Trump directly that he would meet with Zelenskyy, but the Kremlin has not officially confirmed that, right?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: No, they haven't confirmed that. In fact, the Kremlin actually hasn't said anything at all today, but the Russian foreign minister has indeed said something. He came out and he said, look, the Russians are not against any sort of format per se, whether it's bilateral or trilateral, but they also say that any sort of meeting would have to be well-prepared and takes time to prepare.

So, so far, the Russians have not confirmed whether or not Vladimir Putin is even up for a meeting with Volodymyr Zelenskyy and whether he has confirmed that such a meeting will actually take place. Of course, you recall yesterday, senior Kremlin Aide Yuri Ushakov simply said after that phone call that took place between President Trump and Vladimir Putin that the Russians and the U.S. spoke about raising the level of the participants of talks between Ukraine and Russia. So, so far, the Russians not confirming that.

And as Jeff said, one of the things that complicates things is that Vladimir Putin and the Russians have in the past questioned, the legitimacy of Volodymyr Zelenskyy because, of course, there haven't been elections in Ukraine. The Ukrainians are saying that's because of martial law. Vladimir Putin in the past week-and-a-half or so has said he's not, per se, against a meeting with Volodymyr Zelenskyy, but he also said that certain conditions need to be met. And he then said that those conditions are still very far from being met.

However, the Russians are saying that there were significant progress between the U.S. and Russia at that meeting in Alaska. At that summit in Alaska, Sergey Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, coming out and saying that the Russians believe that the U.S. president since then has had a much deeper approach, as he put it, to solving the crisis in Ukraine.

[18:05:07]

So, the Russians clearly believe that there is a lot of diplomatic momentum that is going on even as Russian politicians, like, for instance, the former president, are taunting America's European allies, saying that they did not manage, as he put it, to derail President Trump's good relations with the Russians. Pam?

BROWN: Fred Pleitgen in Moscow, thanks so much.

And joining us now is South Carolina Republican Representative Joe Wilson. He is on the Foreign Affairs Committee and the Armed Services Committee. Currently he is on a bus tour traveling around his district. So, we appreciate you making some time for us. I know that you were talking to your constituents, so thank you, Congressman.

I first want to just ask about what we just heard from Fred Pleitgen talking about, you know, Putin and Zelenskyy. You have said, quote, America first, Putin last, and Ukraine peace should be on Ukraine's terms. Trump has described that there is a warmth with Putin. Does that concern you?

REP. JOE WILSON (R-SC): Actually, I'm really grateful for the president's leadership, President Trump. And it is amazing now to think, I'm also co-chair of the Helsinki Commission, incredible, the meeting at the White House this week with so many leaders of our allies and to see our allies so united, to see the leadership of President Zelenskyy and to see the leadership of Donald Trump. And so I just feel very, very positive about every effort because we know that President Trump wants peace. He wants to kill -- to stop the killing. And, hey, look what he did to stop the killing between Israel and Iran. Look what he did to bring peace to Armenia and Azerbaijan. I was in Europe on last year. I met with President Aliyev of Azerbaijan. Hey, President Trump, I'm just so grateful he is bringing ending wars around the world.

BROWN: And, certainly, the meeting at the White House yesterday, it was historic, it was monumental. And we will see at this bilateral meeting happens and this trilateral meeting. But do you have any concerns that Vladimir Putin is playing President Trump? We know historically that's been something right out of his playbook.

WILSON: And, Pam, thank goodness we have a president who understands that. He knows that the Soviet Union, the Russian Federation, war criminal Putin have never lived up to any agreement. And so he will be demanding that there be proper security and understanding. And, gosh, to see that -- look what he's done. He's got our allies now up to 5 percent to support NATO. That's called peace through strength. And we know. And, hey, as the former co-chair of the India Caucus, the world's largest democracy, they should be working with the United States, working with E.U., with NATO, to block the invasion that has occurred by war criminal Putin.

So, over and over again Donald Trump and J.D. Vance are making a difference to provide peace through strength.

BROWN: I want to get your reaction to something President Trump said earlier today about this war.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: It's not a war that should have been started. You don't do that. You don't take -- you don't take on a nation that's ten times your size.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So, he's saying there about Ukraine, you don't take on a nation that's ten times your size. Do you think Trump is siding with Russian President Putin there? What's your take on that?

WILSON: No. He's stating the fact that the people of Ukraine are so brave. And it's so inspiring. Hey, I was then Kyiv in December before the invasion. And it was with Ruben Gallego. It's bipartisan, Democrat and Republican, and I saw the bravery of the people of Ukraine. They were preparing for resistance and we know war criminal Putin has his troops take their dress uniforms for a welcome parade. He fooled his troops. He's fooled the people of Russia.

Over and over again, he's sacrificing the people of Russia. Now, we know he is sacrificing troops from North Korea. I mean, how incredible the war criminal, Putin, is misleading the world, but we've got a president who understands and that's why he's achieved peace at different places, hey, Cambodia and Thailand. I mean, gee whiz, what a president we have with Donald Trump.

BROWN: Just to be clear, I mean, certainly there are so many brave Ukrainians, that is for sure. But he said, you don't take on a nation that's ten times your size, talking about Ukraine.

WILSON: Well, and, see, what I believe he's telling you is that Ukraine didn't attack or threaten in any way. Come on, let's be real. The Russian Federation, it was truly an invasion by war criminal Putin, and we know that indeed NATO is not an offensive organization. It's a defensive organization. And now, hey, did Putin make a mistake? You know, Finland is a part of NATO with an 830-mile border. Now Sweden, after 200 years of neutrality, is part of NATO, and so, over and over again.

[18:10:01]

And to claim that he didn't want NATO adjacent to him, historically, people need to know that Norway -- 120 miles of Norway was adjacent to the Russian Federation, to the Soviet Union, and that we know too a country we love called America was adjacent by way of Siberia, and so over and over -- by way of Alaska.

BROWN: Let me just --

WILSON: And so the bottom line is I have faith in Donald Trump and I just know that he will do what's right for the American people of fund security for the American families.

BROWN: And let me just follow up quickly though, because we know that Russia launched one of its deadliest attacks overnight after this White House meeting. What message do you think that Putin was trying to send there at a time when President Trump is clearly trying to get peace?

WILSON: Well, and, Pam, too, let's get real. He's -- Putin is -- he's targeting and killing civilians. There's no excuse for this. This is just, this is a war criminal. But I agree with what Donald Trump has previously said. He has lovely talks with Putin in the morning and then there are murderous attacks by war criminal Putin in the afternoon. And so it's continuing and the pattern is really clear.

And, hey, we know that war criminal Putin is trying to recreate, the Soviet Union, failed Soviet Union. We know the annexation of Belarus. We know that he never took troops out Moldova and Transnistria. We know the invasion of the wonderful country of Georgia, the free people of Georgia. We know over and over the Ukrainian invasion of 2008, and so over the illegal annexation of Crimea. And so the -- it's really clear. And, hey, we have a president who really tries to reach out. He's doing his best. He tried to reach out to Kim Jong-un. I'm the only member of Congress who's actually been to Pyongyang. He tried to reach out to a maniac. And so I really appreciate that you just can't give enough credit to Donald Trump that he tries to reach out and he finds out that these dictators we're in a war, dictators with rule of gun invading democracies with rule of law. And we have a leader who will stand up. And NATO is now standing up as never before for freedom and democracy. And to see Japan, Korea, Australia, all of our allies, and we will be working with India. I'm really very grateful.

BROWN: All right. Republican Congressman Joe Wilson of South Carolina, thank you so much.

WILSON: Honor to be with you. Thank you.

BROWN: Well, President Trump says he's going to lead an effort to end mail-in voting across the country, but can he do that? Our panel weighs in, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:15:00]

BROWN: And the Politics Lead, Friday summit between Trump and Russian President Putin may have taken place in chilly Alaska, but Trump says this morning that he was feeling the warmth from his counterpart.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: You saw that when he got off his plane, I got off my plane. There's a warmth there that you can't -- you know, there's a decent feeling. And it's a good thing, not a bad thing. People would say, oh, that's such a terrible thing. It's not a terrible thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: All right. Let's bring in our panel. Doug, I want to go to you first because I just interviewed Congressman Wilson in South Carolina. And he eventually did admit that while he's very happy with President Trump and all of his efforts that Putin is, you know, nice to him, with a phone call in the morning and then will attack Ukraine, you know, hours later. Does it just show to you, does it encapsulate how Republicans are in a tough spot with this right now?

DOUG HEYE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I think so. You know, if we were talking about a different Republican Party, we'd be talking about how they stand up to Russia, you know, first and foremost, is like a prime directive of being a Republican, but the Reagan years are long gone. Your interview with Congressman Wilson, I think, showed that.

There are still some strains of Reaganism within the party. Don Bacon will talk very tough against Russia and Putin all the time, as often as he can, but Republicans feel beholden to Trump and the Trump voters. And so it puts them in a very real situation, as we saw yesterday and now today when Trump isn't necessarily clear and consistent with what his messaging is, it can put members in a bind as they try and defend it other than saying, we're so glad that Donald Trump is our president.

BROWN: And, Mike, what is your reaction to Trump still framing this relationship with Putin as a fairly chummy one, even after Friday's summit and Russia not committing to this bilateral meeting?

MIKE DUBKE, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: I mean, I think this goes back to where, you know, Donald Trump feels if he's going to make a deal. The best way to do that is to make a deal with somebody that you give some level of respect to.

And while there was a lot of pushback of the red carpet rollout in Anchorage and the language that Donald Trump has used in reference to Putin, I think that goes to the heart of this, that he realizes -- I mean, look, here's a guy with the Russia, Russia, Russia, that has every reason to basically push Putin out the door. But if he's going to be successful in this, he believes that he has to have an opponent on equal footing, and that goes to this transactional nature of what he's trying to accomplish here. I think that's where it comes down to for Donald Trump.

BROWN: How do you see it?

AMESHIA CROSS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, acting as though Putin is a good faith player, I think, is one of the issues with Trump's negotiations to begin with. This is a guy who fashions himself as a master negotiator. There has not been proof that is the case. With that being said, to Doug's point earlier, Republicans of yesteryear, Republicans of the not so distant past placed Putin in exactly the bucket he should be in.

This is a president who is, in many ways, befriending him, but also one who I think believes that -- believes what Putin is telling him, which is something that previous presidents were very cautious about. First and foremost, because this guy has lived his entire life wanting to rebuild Mother Russia, wanting to rebuild the Soviet Union, and if given the opportunity, he will continue to go past Ukraine and take more territory. That is the reason why we've seen European leaders up in arms and wanting to see America take the initiative that America needs to take, but also to full-throatedly support Ukraine.

With that being said, I think that this is a president who has said, and caught him on a hot mic, that this deal is for him. If there's a deal to be had, it'll be had because he negotiated it. It's about him more than anything else.

HEYE: Presidents misjudging Vladimir Putin is a longstanding --

BROWN: This is the real question.

[18:20:00]

How does Vladimir Putin do this time and time again with both Republican and Democratic presidents? HEYE: Yes, transmit to Vladimir. I just need to get through my next election. This has been a long-running problem. It's why two things are happening. One, Putin feels that he's in a good place. He doesn't want to end this war. He wants to win the war. That's how this war he feels will be over is when he wins it. And if you look at all the allies that were there at the White House yesterday, they're there in part because they're nervous.

And, you know, I'm going to Poland in two weeks to speak at the Polish Economic Forum, where I've been for the past three years, their nervousness about what is happening in Ukraine, because they're a neighbor to Ukraine, is palpable. You walk down the streets and people will approach you because they're that nervous about whether the United States will stand behind Ukraine or not, and our own history, whether it's Donald Trump or other presidents, says you might have a problem here,

CROSS: But I don't think that we can equivocate this with other presidents because other presidents have not literally rolled out the red carpet. Other presidents have not been giddy when he stepped out. Other presidents have not cheered him on, literally clapping. Other presidents have not had meetings with other E.U. members and literally took a call from Putin at the same time and have also echoed Russian television and have promoted that across Truth Social.

Like this is a guy who has shown time and time again to not only be a friend to Russia, but to also echo the sentiments of the Russian president.

DUBKE: Other presidents also haven't brought all of the opponents to the table, as we hopefully will see in the next couple of weeks. I mean. Joe Biden had two years to do it, did not do it. Other presidents have not had that opportunity. So, at some point, there's got to be a little bit of acknowledgement that American leadership is still alive and well, and Donald Trump's brought the protagonist to the team.

CROSS: There will be acknowledgement if there's actually a deal made. He told us all it was going to be on day one. We are how many days in. We knew that wasn't going to happen when he promised it. But until there is a deal made, that movement is questioned.

BROWN: Let me move on to something else, and I want to ask you about this, Mike, because I know that you brought a prop to the table. Trump posted this afternoon about his continued issues with the Smithsonian Museums, writing, the Smithsonian is out of control where everything discussed is how horrible our country is, how bad slavery was, and how accomplished the downtrodden have been, nothing about success, nothing about brightness, nothing about the future. Mike?

DUBKE: So, here is a president that's going to oversee the celebration of the 250-year anniversary of the United States. Last summer, I went to the portrait gallery with my wife just as a lark summer, get out of the heat, and I was in the Presidential Portrait Gallery. And for the most part, those little segments next to the portraits, the little paragraph describes the presidents, they were pretty good up until you got to about Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan. And then you started to see the partisanship fade in.

I'm just going to read one sentence from each one of these. And this is my prop that I brought. So, for Republican George W. Bush, it reads, Republican George W. Bush lost the popular vote to Democrat Al Gore, but became president after a protracted period of ballot recounting, the legitimacy of which was ultimately decided by the Supreme Court. And it ends with his administration's slow response to the massive devastation wrought by Hurricane Katrina in 2005 and the cataclysmic financial crisis of '08 caused widespread outrage and sparked interest in change. Those are two of the four sentences that were used here.

For Obama, it reads, Barack Obama made history in 2009 by becoming the first African American president, the former Illinois state senator's election signal a feeling of hope for the future, even as the U.N. -- my point being, there's been partisanship at the Smithsonian for a long time now, and Donald Trump is pointing out --

CROSS: This isn't about partisanship. This is about sheer racism. This is a president who wants to eradicate America's original sin. This is a president with his statements might as well have said the N word with the hard E-R. He does not care about black America and who wants to eradicate our history. That's what this is.

BROWN: Mike.

DUBKE: I couldn't disagree with you more on that and I --

CROSS: All the anti DEI policies, all the anti CRT policies, all of the policies to dismantle civil rights, he is working very hard to eradicate one of the most tough parts of American history. As the only black person at this table, I think that it is quite frankly, disingenuous to argue in any other direction because he's shown time and time again who he is and we honestly believe him.

BROWN: All right. Thank you so much to our panel. We appreciate it.

Much more next on the new steps President Trump is demanding today after he's escalated his attacks on the Smithsonian Museums, as we were just talking about, and he claims they're out of control.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:25:00]

BROWN: In our National Lead, more of President Donald Trump's escalating rhetoric against museums and so-called woke exhibits. You just heard us talking about that on the panel.

So, I want to bring in Leah Wright Rigueur, a political historian at Johns Hopkins. So, we just had a very fiery discussion and I think it's important to get your perspective as a historian. Something that President Trump said in his Truth Social post was, you know, these museums talk too much about the bad things and not the good things. And he noted in the bad things that there's too much discussion about how bad slavery was. Is it even really possible to overstate how bad slavery was?

LEAH WRIGHT RIGUEUR, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Absolutely not. And I'm actually really disturbed that, once again, we are trying to re-litigate something that has, objectively, by all sides being decided that slavery was a bad thing, objectively. We fought a civil war over it and over the economic independence from the very active slavery, that's something that we have conceded.

Now, it's something that the United States has dealt with. It's not something that the United States is really comfortable with. But at the very least, we've had a longstanding understanding that slavery is something universally bad.

[18:30:05]

And yet here we are in 2025 with the president of the United States declaring that it's not all bad.

And, you know, I do have to ask. I really wonder, has the president of the United States actually visited any of the Smithsonian exhibits or museums. You know, I think, I'm pretty sure the answer to that is no, he hasn't. Because if he had, he would actually see a very deep and complex and nuanced story about the about America, the good, the bad, the ugly, but also a story of resilience that really is about the very best of America when faced with the very worst of our country.

BROWN: So, what do you say to President Trump's argument that we're not focusing enough on the very best of America on that resiliency, on the innovation in America and what makes America so great? What do you say to that argument overall?

RIGUEUR: Well, I actually think that the work, the extraordinary work that historians, the curators that scholars have done in the Smithsonian, which has existed as an independent federal institution for decades and really has prided itself on the kind of excellence that it has poured into this. The director of the Smithsonian, Lonnie Bunch, has done an exceptional job on this.

But if the president were actually to visit and actually do the work of engaging with this, he would actually see that the exhibits that the collections, that the actual story that the Smithsonian, various museums are presenting is one that is truly about the very best of America. I mean, if you go to the National Museum of African American History and Culture, you can see the storied history that starts, yes, with the experience of slavery, but then tells a story of triumph right on through the present. It talks about the narrative talks, about Ben Carson, it talks about the narrative of Barack Obama. It talks about success in really powerful and resilient ways.

And so I have the question what the real agenda is in doing this. I actually don't think this is about telling a story of triumph about America, that, in fact, it's instead about a very particular agenda about really erasing the narrative of the American stories of American citizens that really define our country, define who we are, the various bits and pieces, the voices that all too often get erased, and that historians have done extraordinary work to bring that to the present.

I mean, there is a reason that, on an annual basis, 24 million people visit these museums and these exhibits. And there's a reason why the president wants to control that narrative and really erase the voice of the people who really make up the true story of America.

BROWN: Leah Wright Rigueur, thank you so much.

RIGUEUR: Thank you.

BROWN: And our small business series takes us to California next, and a company that serves as a one-stop shop for all of your seasonal decor with fall around the corner and Christmas shopping soon behind. How are tariffs impacting its business? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:35:00]

BROWN: In our Law on Justice Lead, the White House today denied any dissatisfaction with the number two in command at the FBI. Deputy Director Dan Bongino will now split his role with Andrew Bailey, who just announced that he will resign as Missouri's attorney general next month. Now, this move comes a month after Bongino clashed with U.S. Attorney General Pam Bondi over the Jeffrey Epstein files.

CNN's Tom Foreman has more on this unusual personnel move at the FBI.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDREW BAILEY, MISSOURI ATTORNEY GENERAL: The illicit nature of these witch hunt prosecutions is self-evident to anyone paying attention.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): A fire breathing defender of MAGA, Missouri Attorney General Andrew Bailey tried and failed to intervene in President Trump's criminal conviction in New York. He's railed against federal government overreach, student loan debt forgiveness, transgender rights, and more.

BAILEY: That's all woke, liberal nonsense.

FOREMAN: And he stood solidly behind the false claim that Trump really won the election he lost in 2020, laying out a conservative fever dream of ways liberals might cheat again before the last election.

BAILEY: They're going to try to steal this one by silencing our voices on big tech social media platforms, by stifling us in the mainstream media and by packing the polling places with criminal illegal aliens that shouldn't be here in the first place.

FOREMAN: Never mind that his resume is thin for such a top federal job. At the White House, his assessment is rock solid.

LEAVITT: Andrew Bailey is extremely qualified. As you know, he's been serving with honor as the attorney general of Missouri. FOREMAN: But now it gets complicated. In his new role, Bailey will be a co-deputy director of the FBI with Dan Bongino, who has had the job all to himself.

TRUMP: I like Dan Bongino, yes.

FOREMAN: So, what's changed? The Jeffrey Epstein case.

TRUMP: Are you still talking about Jeffrey Epstein?

FOREMAN: As the White House has tried to quiet public interest in the scandalous tale of the late billionaire's pedophilia and a stream of revelations about his friendship with Trump, Bongino has clearly struggled to drop his longstanding claims of a cover-up around the case.

DAN BONGINO, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, FBI: There's more than meets the eye there. I know a lot of people want to make this thing go away.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOREMAN (on camera): Bongino has also expressed some general sense that he doesn't like what the job is showing him. He is not crazy about this job. The question now, though, for many is, is he now going to be shown the door now that a replacement is standing right next to him? And, of course, the question for the White House is, does any of this, do anything to quiet the noise about the Epstein case and the notion that they said they were going to lay it all out there and they still haven't. Pam?

BROWN: Tom Foreman, thanks so much.

I want to bring in someone who once held this job of FBI deputy director. That would be Andy McCabe. So, Tom just really laid it out there. Despite him having no FBI background, the White House says Bailey is being brought on as a, quote, another set of very credible and experienced hands to work alongside Bongino.

[18:40:05]

Typically, I know I covered the FBI for years the deputy, you know, FBI agent would be someone who had a lot of experience in the Bureau. Now you have two co-FBI deputy directors without that. What do you make of this?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Really exactly what the FBI does not need right now, which is another high ranking official who has no law enforcement experience really beyond, I guess, he was a in the General Counsel's Office at the Department of Corrections before his time as A.G., but no federal law enforcement experience, no significant leadership experience and no understanding of the FBI of its, as you know, labyrinth in ways, its unique culture, strange language, and a massive workforce that generally stays for 20 years or more.

So, yes, instead, what they're getting is a very active, political operative, someone who's clearly proved his loyalty to President Trump. But at a time when the Bureau was being dragged deeper and deeper and deeper into politics I think this is a really questionable choice.

BROWN: And we know, as Tom laid out, he is an election denier despite all of the available evidence. What red flags does that raise for you?

MCCABE: Well, Pam, as you know, the FBI deputy director is responsible for all investigative activity and intelligence collection. And so in that -- it's an enormous role with incredibly broad scope, but many times every day important decisions are brought to you as kind of the final arbiter of what will happen in a given case or in an operation or on a long-term national security strategy. And you have to be able to make those decisions based on simply the facts and the law.

And to put someone in that role who has had such a prominent experience recently ignoring the facts and the law, and something like being in an election denier or inserting himself into the president's criminal battles really just raises more questions about why this person, why now.

BROWN: And do you see Bongino, for his part, being on his way out? Because this has never happened either, right, where you have a co- deputy director?

MCCABE: No. It's -- really, I can't even imagine how that will work. As I said, you know, the deputy director is the last word on all of those decisions to. So to split that same level of authority between two people is inevitably going to lead to conflict.

Bongino has been pretty clear. He is not super happy with the job. This could all just be a strategy to build, kind of a transition for him to leave. So, we'll have to see how that goes. But if he leaves, he'll be replaced by someone who really doesn't bring any more experience or knowledge of the FBI to the job than Bongino did.

BROWN: And what impact do you think this will have on the rank and file at a time when some of them are being pulled to police streets in D.C.?

MCCABE: Police streets in D.C., you've got Joint Terrorism Task Force agents who are being told to spend at least 30 percent of their time providing security for immigration arrests, the rank and file on the FBI understand how they're being taken off target. They're being taken off critical missions to fill these political roles that are essentially desired by the White House. This will definitely be seen as a strong push in that direction.

BROWN: Former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe, thank you so much.

MCCABE: Sure.

BROWN: So, no more extreme home makeovers as tariffs take a toll on home renovations. There is a new warning today from Home Depot and that is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:47:25]

BROWN: And the money lead, Home Depot, America's largest home improvement store, says today, shoppers could soon see higher prices due to tariffs as fewer Americans take on large renovation projects.

And that brings us to our "Business Leaders" series, where we hear from small business owners about the impact of President Trump's tariffs. Balsam Brands sells seasonal decor. The small business is known for their pre-lit Christmas trees.

And founder and CEO Mac Harman joins us now to talk a little bit about this.

Hi, Mac.

So, tell us a little bit about how the tariffs are impacting your company. Which products in particular have you seen drastically impacted by tariffs?

MAC HARMAN, FOUNDER AND CEO, BALSAM BRANDS: Well, first, thanks so much for having small business leaders on your show. We really appreciate the exposure because we don't tend to get that. It's a really serious issue for small businesses.

For us as a company that sells Christmas decorations, we import 99 percent of everything that we sell, and even our two U.S. suppliers import components. And so, the tariffs have increased our costs about 25 percent. And that's much more than we make as a retailer.

And so, unfortunately, we have to pass some of those costs on. So, it's really impacting us. We've seen a little bit slower demand.

Our international businesses were fortunate to sell in other countries. They're doing great right now. But our U.S., our domestic business has slowed down some because of the impact of these tariffs.

BROWN: So basically, you believe if it wasn't for the tariffs that wouldn't be happening. The slowdown in business, even though were in August and Christmas is several months away?

HARMAN: Yes. So we sell direct to retailers primarily. So we sell every day of the year. And we actually have a big event in July called Christmas All July. And so were able to compare our daily, our hourly sales from one year to the other. And we're able to look at it across six different countries.

And we saw this slowdown in the U.S. in our July sales that we didn't have in our other geographies. And the main difference there are the increased prices in the U.S. and the impact of these tariffs that we have.

BROWN: So, will customers see higher prices this holiday season?

HARMAN: I think the biggest thing that customers are going to see is that there's going to be fewer goods on shelves this year. The reason is that all of us, as Christmas retailers, as seasonal retailers, whether it's Home Depot in the news today or Balsam Hill, we have a budget for purchasing Christmas goods. And when the prices go up 25 percent, everyone cut back their goods.

And so, the American Christmas Tree Association is forecasting that for every 100 folks who went out to -- who planned to go out this year to buy an artificial Christmas tree, 15 of them won't be able to find one.

[18:50:03]

So, not only will there be higher prices, because we just don't have a way to absorb the cost, because the amount we pay in tariffs is more than the profit we make. There also are going to be fewer units this year for sale.

BROWN: So clearly, production has been impacted. Have you done anything else to -- as sort of a workaround to the tariffs?

HARMAN: Well, we're fortunate this year that we only have a 25 percent increase cost because we were able to have some products we brought in before the tariffs took place. And so, we -- production is actually not a challenge for us. We could have made more.

At this point, its too late to make more for Christmas. Most of the goods have shipped. They're on the water or they're in warehouses here in the U.S. so the supply is fixed. And unfortunately, we do have these tariff bills that come due every day from containers that have come in in the past.

So, the costs are continuing to rack up. And that's where those increased prices come from.

So there's -- we've done everything we can. Our mission as a company is to bring joy to families and to create joy together. And we hope we can do as much of that as we can. We're just worried about having enough supply this year.

BROWN: What's the number one thing you want consumers and lawmakers to understand about tariffs and how they're impacting your industry?

HARMAN: Well, I think for consumers its by early this year if you see something you like and it seems like a price you can afford, I'd buy it before we sell out. If I had a chance to sit down with lawmakers, I'd say, lets give a holiday to tariffs on Christmas and let's treat non-strategic goods differently.

Christmas trees are not a strategic good, pre-lit Christmas trees have never been made here because Americans don't want to spend hours putting lights on Christmas trees. And it's not a strategic good like telecommunications or A.I. chips or shipbuilding or something like that. And so for these things that are so important to Americans, these traditions that we hold dear of celebrating Christmas, let's let these products come in from all over the world, not be tariffed or be tariffed at a much reduced rate so that we don't have to increase the prices that we all pay for this cherished American tradition of Christmas.

BROWN: All right, you'll find Balsam Brand holiday decor worldwide.

Mac Harman, thank you. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:56:21]

BROWN: In our world lead, plans for a new so-called Chinese super embassy in London have some worried about their security and their privacy.

CNN's Salma Abdelaziz spoke with an activist from Hong Kong, now in London, who says her sense of safety has been shattered.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Hong Kong activist Carmen Lau looks nervously at the building behind us.

CARMEN LAU, SENIOR INTERNATIONAL ADVOCACY ASSOCIATE, HONG KONG DEMOCRACY COUNCIL: My heart beats right now is actually quite fast.

ABDELAZIZ: We are standing at the gates of what could become China's new embassy in the heart of London.

Critics have dubbed it a super embassy. If the proposal goes ahead, China will invest millions in what would become the largest embassy in Europe on the sprawling 5.4-acre royal mint court. Beijing bought the historic parcel of land in 2018 for around $312 million. Lau fears the site will be used to spy on, harass and potentially detain and torture opponents of the Chinese government, including herself, fears the embassy has dismissed.

Lau fled Hong Kong for London about four years ago, she says, after she faced persecution for speaking out against the Beijing government. Hong Kong police later issued an arrest warrant for Lau, accusing her of incitement to secession and collusion with foreign elements, charges she denies. Now, she says, her sense of safety has been shattered yet again.

This is why in February, her neighbors received the sheet of paper, a wanted poster promising a reward for information or --

LAU: Or take her to the Chinese embassy.

ABDELAZIZ: Take her to the Chinese embassy. Yes.

LAU: And what's the reward? Is 1 million Hong Kong dollar.

ABDELAZIZ: And when you think about that embassy being right there and getting posters like this.

LAU: Yeah, it's not hard for everyone to imagine if I got taken into this site, what would happen to me? They could do whatever they want. ABDELAZIZ: This 2022 video speaks to her concerns. It shows a pro-

democracy protester being dragged into a Chinese consulate in the English city of Manchester and beaten up. Lau fears of a black site grew after a blueprint of the mega embassy showed several rooms, including the basement area marked redacted for security reasons.

The current Chinese embassy says it needs more space and called opposition to its plan despicable slandering by anti-China elements and unfair.

Chinese officials also noted that the U.K. is seeking to rebuild its own embassy in Beijing. The United States says it is deeply concerned that China will exploit the critical infrastructure of one of its closest allies. That's according to a senior administration official.

British officials have asked Beijing to provide more information on the redacted areas and clarify how it will address the concerns of local residents.

This all --

MARK NYGATE, ROYAL MINT COURT RESIDENTS ASSOCIATION: The way along -- all the way along to the end.

ABDELAZIZ: All the way over there.

Like Mark Nygate.

And your flat is just right there.

NYGATE: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I said, I'm closer to Beijing now.

ABDELAZIZ: His flat is just a few feet away from what could become a housing block for dozens of Chinese embassy staffers and their families.

Do you feel like you have you'll have your privacy?

NYGATE: No, not at all. Not at all. You know, you. We were told we had to put our blinds down if we wanted our privacy.

ABDELAZIZ: China says it aims to foster friendship and cooperation between Britain and China. The U.K. is expected to make a decision on the proposed embassy in the coming weeks.

Salma Abdelaziz, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And our thanks to Salma. And you can follow me on X @pamelabrownCNN. You can follow the show on X @TheLeadCNN. If you ever miss an episode of THE LEAD, you can listen to the show wherever you get your podcasts.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now.