Return to Transcripts main page

The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump Has Accused Fed Governor Lisa Cook Of Mortgage Fraud; Trump Admin Appeals Judge Ruling Tossing Immigration Suit; Massive Dust Storm Rolls Over Phoenix Area; String Of Fake Shooting Threats Made To Universities; Gold Star Families Mark Four Years Since Abbey Gate Bombing. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired August 26, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: If you miss any of today's show or any of our shows, you can always catch up listening to The Arenas podcast. Just go ahead scan the QR code below. It's on your screen. You follow along wherever you get your podcast. You can also follow show on X and Instagram. We're at The Arena CNN.

Jake Tapper is standing by for The Lead. And I have to say, Jake, I'm just enchanted by Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce. They're going to be together forever and always.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: You know, we're all a little verklempt here at The Lead. We're all rooting for those two crazy kids.

HUNT: Yes.

TAPPER: thanks so much, Kasie.

HUNT: Can I get a song lyric? No, no song title.

TAPPER: Wildest dreams. Is that what you want me to say? Wildest Dreams. Thanks, Kasie. We'll see you back. See you back in The Arena tomorrow.

A lot more happened today besides that big engagement. The Lead starts right now.

President Trump being threatened with a lawsuit as he keeps up his feud with the Fed, pushing to fire a Federal Reserve Board governor accusing her of mortgage fraud. Is this political interference to get what he really wants, a Fed under his control.

Plus, the frightening trend sweeping several colleges nationwide. Hoax phone calls about nonexistent shootings on campus, how investigators are trying to track down those responsible.

And yes, everybody, she said yes. Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce are now engaged. We'll bring you all the latest on what CNN's learning about that moment. And that huge rock she's now supporting looks bigger than his Super Bowl.

Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. Off the top today, President Trump's move to fire Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook, who has voted often to not lower interest rates, along with Fed Chairman Jerome Powell, whom Trump criticizes constantly for not lowering the rates.

This would be the first instance of a president firing or attempting to fire a Fed governor in the history of the central bank. Cook is a Biden appointed member of the board of the Federal Reserve Senate confirmed she's facing allegations of mortgage fraud from President Trump and his top allies.

As of now, Cook has not been charged with or convicted of any wrongdoing. Trump's announcement came after U.S. markets were closed last night. But even though Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent said earlier today that Trump's move was aimed at restoring trust in the Fed, the reaction around the world to the announcement was an immediate vote of no confidence with the U.S. dollar weakening against the pound and the euro and the Japanese yen.

That is likely because, as economists say the independence of a nation's central bank is essential for others, especially those around the world, to have confidence in that country's economy and its currency. If the Trump administration can somehow navigate this uncharted and absolutely unprecedented legal water of firing Cook, Trump's ability to appoint her replacement would theoretically grant him sway over four of the seven Fed board governors as he pointed out in his Cabinet meeting today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: We'll have a majority very shortly, so that'll be great. Once we have a majority, housing is going to swing, and it's going to be great.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Critics say this move is an escalation of Trump's attacks on the independence of the central bank. It's also another instance of a pattern we see coming to fruition in Trump's second term, where when he sees data he does not like, or assessments or facts or decisions coming from experts in his government.

For example, when a less than stellar jobs report dropped at the beginning of this month, Trump made something of a scene. He publicly fired the person who oversees those reports, the chief of the Bureau of Labor Statistics, Dr. Erica McIntarfer, a career civil surgeon who had been confirmed in the Senate with bipartisan support.

Trump accused her of having manipulated the data for political purposes, claiming she gave a stellar jobs report right before the 2024 election and then revised it downward after the election. In fact, the exact opposite had happened. Still, she was fired.

And just last week, sources say Trump didn't like the initial intelligence assessment of damage to Iranian nuclear sites from U.S. strikes in June, which contradicted Trump's immediate claim minutes after the strikes, that the sites had been, quote, completely obliterated. Trump's Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth, fired the person who oversaw the U.S. defense intelligence agency, Lieutenant General Jeffrey Cruz. And that, of course, brings us back to Fed's Governor Lisa Cook.

The allegations against whom were raised by Trump's Federal Housing Finance Agency chief, Bill Pulte, who's also leveled charges against Trump nemeses Senator Adam Schiff, a Democrat, and New York Attorney General Letitia James, a Democrat. Trump is trying to fire Cook by flexing power. It's not entirely clear he even has in this instance.

Presidents can fire Federal Reserve governors for cause. That's the rule Trump is currently trying to invoke to dismiss Cook. But what does it mean when a president, this president removes all the roadblocks, including all the people in charge of delivering facts and data and analyses that he disagrees with.

Well, this is what the president had to say just a few hours ago when asked about whether or not, he was allowed to send the military into the streets of Chicago against the wishes of the mayor of Chicago and the governor of Illinois.

[17:05:00]

President had to say just a few hours ago when asked about whether or not he was allowed to send the military into the streets of Chicago against the wishes of the mayor of Chicago and the governor of Illinois.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I would have the right to do anything I want to do. I'm the president of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Fed Governor Lisa Cook's attorney, Abby Lowell, says that they will be filing a lawsuit to challenge the president's attempt to fire her, setting the stage for really an unprecedented legal battle since CNN's Tom Foreman unpacks the accusations against Cook that brought us to this point.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TRUMP: We need people that are 100 percent above board and it doesn't seem like she was.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Trump says the deed is done. He has fired Federal Reserve Board member Lisa Cook. But Cook and her lawyer say he can't do that because the president has not built the case to give her the boot.

TOM DUPREE, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: Under the law, the president clearly does have the legal authority to fire a member of the Federal Reserve for cause. I think what's a closer question, though, is whether what the president has at this point amounts to cause. FOREMAN (voice-over): At issue, in 2021, Cook purchased a home in

Michigan, then another home in Georgia, declaring both to be her primary residence, based on a CNN review of mortgage documents potentially double dipping on financial incentives for home buyers. But analysts note she has denied wrongdoing. She was never charged. That might not be a valid cause to fire her and she may have an explanation.

DUPREE: She could just say she made a mistake.

FOREMAN (voice-over): However, Trump has been fuming at the Fed for months for refusing to drop interest rates to head off rising inflation, which many economists expect to get worse as Trump's tariffs settle in.

TRUMP: The job he's done is just terrible.

FOREMAN (voice-over): So he's tried and failed to shove aside Fed Chairman Jerome Powell. He's trying to push Cook out so he can name her replacement. And most of all, he's trying to make the seven-member independent board bend to his will, which some economists say is an awful idea.

JUSTIN WOLFERS, PROFESSOR OF ECONOMICS AND PUBLIC POLICY, UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN: We want the Fed to make decisions in the best interest of the American people rather than the political interests of the president. If he proceeds down this path, then we get a step closer to a banana republic.

FOREMAN (voice-over): Still, Team Trump has flung mortgage fraud accusations at New York Democratic Attorney General Letitia James, who convicted Trump for falsifying business records, and Democratic Senator Adam Schiff from California.

TRUMP: I think Adam Schiff is one of the lowest of the low. I would love to see him brought to justice.

FOREMAN (voice-over): They both deny any violations, but Trump didn't even accuse Tulsi Gabbard of wrongdoing when she simultaneously claimed homes in Texas and Hawaii. Trump made her his Director of National Intelligence.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOREMAN: So it looks at least nakedly political here, but it really comes back to that question of cause here. Even if she did this, is that something that rises to a cause level to push her out of this position or is this because she was chosen by Joe Biden and Donald Trump wants somebody who he gets to choose.

TAPPER: Yes, I mean, he said in that board meeting, we'll have a majority very shortly. In the cabinet meeting, we'll have a majority very shortly. So that'll be great. Once we have a majority, housing is going to swing. It's going to be great.

FOREMAN: I mean, it doesn't -- I mean, it seems very much like somebody who is just saying very openly, yes, I want to put my thumb on the scale. I think my thumb should always be on the scales in the same sense, as you noted, being against facts, analysis, things he doesn't like.

TAPPER: And also there's this federal housing guy who just keeps finding questionable accusations --

FOREMAN: Yes.

TAPPER: -- against Democrats. Just Democrats.

FOREMAN: Yes. And Tulsi Gabbard.

TAPPER: Nothing to say about it.

FOREMAN: We'll move on.

TAPPER: Tom Foreman, thanks so much. Let's bring in Nobel Prize winning economist Paul Krugman. Paul, this is the first instance of a president attempting to fire a Fed government in the history of the central bank. You wrote on your substack. The real story here isn't about Lisa Cook or mortgages. It's about the way the Trump administration is weaponizing government against political opponents, critics, or anyone it finds inconvenient, unquote.

The president, of course, is allowed to fire a Fed governor for cause. Do you not think allegations of mortgage fraud are cause enough to warrant dismissal?

PAUL KRUGMAN, NOBEL LAUREATE ECONOMIST: Normally, for cause means that you're not doing your job. You know something, we have no evidence really that she did anything wrong. But anything that's being raised pertains to, you know, back when she was a professor at Michigan State, not at the Fed. Normally, firing for a cause means that you're drinking on the job or you're stealing office supplies or something like that. It's something related to not doing the job.

And there's been no hint of that. Nothing. No one is -- even the Trump people aren't trying to claim that she's doing a bad job at the Fed, that she's unqualified or behaving inappropriately. So this is crazy. This is, you know, I -- if I cheated on my third grade exam, should I be fired from my current job. This is completely insane.

[17:10:06]

TAPPER: Treasury Secretary Bessent commented on the move in today's Cabinet meeting. Take a listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT BESSENT, TREASURY SECRETARY: The Federal Reserve's independence comes from a political arrangement between itself and the American public. Having the public's trust is the only thing that gives it credibility. And you, sir, are restoring trust to government.

(END VIDEO CLIP) TAPPER: I am sure that you feel the exact opposite. What is your opinion on Trump's move to oust her in terms of the future of the independence of the central bank?

KRUGMAN: Oh, this is really awful. I mean, it would be bad enough if he were simply pressuring the Fed, if he were simply even, you know, managing to actually find some cause to fire somebody. But this is actually saying, if you, Federal Reserve official, get in my way, don't follow my orders, I will ruin your life. This is pure intimidation, and it's personal intimidation.

So this is really -- this is the authoritarian playbook. And the Federal Reserve, there's a reason that we want the Fed to be really insulated. It's not, you know, the public doesn't know a whole lot about this, but we know that very well. The trouble is that the Fed can be used for political purposes too easily. It's so frictionless. All you need to do is basically tell the open market desk, cut interest rates, and it'll do it.

And that's why, to remove temptation, we have an independent Fed, so that presidents who want to boost their poll numbers for the next few months and don't care about the future, or presidents who buy into crackpot economic theories can't just go ahead and tell the Fed, you know, roll those printing presses and we know what happens.

This is how Turkey got to 80 percent inflation a few years ago. This is -- this is a, you know, banana republic type stuff. And it's, boy, I've been a pessimist about what would happen. This is far worse than anything I had in mind.

TAPPER: Paul Krugman, thank you so much. Appreciate it. Good to see you again. Joining us now here in studio is former Trump economic adviser Steve Moore. So, Steve, you heard Krugman and others have serious concerns about what this attempted firing might mean for the independence of the Federal Reserve. I'm sure you feel that the independence of the Federal Reserve is important.

What is your take? Are you concerned at all about the President's pressure campaign against Mr. Cook?

STEPHEN MOORE, CO-FOUNDER, UNLEASH PROSPERITY: Well, a couple of things. I mean, first of all, with respect to this particular case, Paul Krugman just said this is like cheating on a third grade exam. I mean, that's ridiculous. This is a very serious problem.

And by the way, I believe she's innocent until proven guilt, let me be clear about that.

TAPPER: Right.

MOORE: But if she is guilty of this, it's a big deal, especially for someone on the Federal Reserve Board. We know from what happened in the housing crisis in 2008 that a major cause of so many of these mortgages going under was that people cheated at the, lied on their mortgage application forms. In fact, this is one of the things that people did. They would -- they

would claim more than one principal residence. So this is not a minor crime at all. And again, she hasn't charged with anything.

TAPPER: Not just convicted, she hasn't been charged with anything.

MOORE: Right. But it's also true that she has these allegations against her. And it's pretty easy for her to just put this to rest by just saying, showing us, you know, how it is that this happened, that she had two applications. Was it carelessness? You know, she's been pretty mum about this and she could, in other words, let's see some form of evidence that she didn't do this.

TAPPER: Or just as an explanation of.

MOORE: Yes.

TAPPER: Let me ask you the result. As you know, overnight, the dollar weakened against the yen, the pound and the euro --

MOORE: Yes.

TAPPER: -- after Trump said this.

MOORE: Yes.

TAPPER: And I guess the question is, if President Trump continues to exert control over the Fed, will other countries question whether or not our bank, our central bank, is actually independent?

MOORE: Well, a couple of points I'd make about this. Look, I do believe independent Fed and I do believe that the Fed should not be political. But Jerome Powell is arguably the most political Fed chairman we've ever had. It's no secret that he and Donald Trump don't like each other. He --

MOORE: Also, no secret, Trump appointed him.

MOORE: That's true. And he would say, if you're here right now, he'd say that was his biggest mistake. But you know, in his testimony, you know, just that he gets before Congress, he attacks Trump's terrorists (ph). Now, all of these are going to cause inflation, which they may well do. But he doesn't talk about all the other things that Trump is going to do that are anti-disinflationary, like, you know, deregulating the economy, like producing more energy, like the tax cuts.

So, here's a point that I think people should understand. Back right before the election, one of the most important elections of our lifetime, Jerome Powell lowered interest rates right before the election.

[17:15:06]

Now, to me, that was putting the thumb on the scale to help Kamala Harris. Now, you might say, well, that -- there was reasons for doing that, but. But then there was a Trump gets in, the inflation rate was lower than it was back when he lowered the rates under Biden and Kamala Harris, and he won't lower the rates. So I've never seen an explanation for why he cut rates when inflation was still high. And now that it's low, he won't cut rates.

TAPPER: Let me ask you about the actions of the director of the Federal Housing Finance Agency, Bill Pulte, who is the one that raised these accusations --

MOORE: Yes.

TAPPER: -- these allegations against her --

MOORE: Yes.

TAPPER: -- has also raised allegations against two Trump nemeses, Senator Adam Schiff and Letitia James, the Attorney General of New York. Do you think, first of all, there is at least the very appearance of this guy looking like he is kind of a henchman for Trump, that he's like, keeps, like, raising these questions about meddlesome priests, as it were.

And also, you know, these are allegations not going through any sort of process. There's no criminal charge. You know, there's nobody. There's no conviction. And yet they're being raised. Does that concern you at all? I mean, it looks like the weaponization of government that Trump himself complained was done to him.

MOORE: Jake, I haven't been following those stories.

TAPPER: Yes.

MOORE: I'm not really someone to ask about that. I will say this, though, that the Fed is one of the most important agencies of our government. As you may recall, by the way, I was nominated in the Federal Reserve Board under Trump in his first term. And my gosh, it was like a proctology exam. I mean, they examined every single financial record I had. So I'm a little confused about how something like this even, you know, was not spotted by the auditors who looked at this.

But, you know, they told me, look, if you've got any tax problem or if you've got any problem on your tax forms, that is, that makes you ineligible be on the Federal Reserve Board. Well, if she's guilty of this, she should be ineligible to be on the board.

TAPPER: If.

MOORE: Yes.

TAPPER: Right. Yes.

MOORE: And it's an if we don't know for sure.

TAPPER: Right. So whatever happened. So. MOORE: So I didn't make it on the Federal Reserve Board for a lot of

reasons. But my point is, I don't quite understand why this wasn't brought to light when she was up for nomination.

TAPPER: It's a good question. And hopefully we'll get answer. Stephen Moore, thank you so much. Really appreciate your time.

MOORE: Yes.

TAPPER: From Trump's feud with the Fed to his brand new beef with the courts, the ruling from a Trump appointed judge that has the Trump administration forcefully trying to push back and later, when GLP1 shots just aren't for you, how about a pill instead for weight loss? Can you swallow that? Just how close that might be to reality? Coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:21:34]

TAPPER: Just into our Law and Justice Lead. The Trump administration just appealed a ruling from a Trump appointed federal judge that threw out an aggressive justice department lawsuit. That lawsuit had tried to sue all 15 federal trial judges in the state of Maryland.

Now, the underpinning of that case, Maryland courts temporarily blocking the Trump administration from quickly deporting undocumented immigrants if they challenged their removals. And that ruling was on full display in the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia this week. That's the undocumented immigrant who lived in Maryland who is now in ICE custody as he challenges his deportation, threatened to go to Uganda. It's a country where he has absolutely zero ties.

Joining us now, CNN crime and justice correspondent Katelyn Polantz and CNN senior legal analyst Elie Honig. And Katelyn, let me start with you.

This judge laid out some rather fiery statements in this rebuke of the Trump administration's unusual lawsuit. And just to remind people this is a Trump appointed judge.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Two time Trump appointee --

TAPPER: Yes.

POLANTZ: -- Thomas Cullen, a conservative royalty in the state of Virginia brought into this special case overseeing it in Maryland. And his opinion today was get this out of this court, full dismissal. It doesn't belong here. And he wasn't going to let it go forward. Resoundingly, he writes, none of these cases that the Justice Department was arguing in this case support the Executive's theory that it can sue federal judges simply because it disagrees with how they carry out their constitutional and statutory duties to hold otherwise would run counter to overwhelming precedent, depart from long standing constitutional tradition and offend the rule of law. That's a pretty strong statement from Judge Cullen in this backing up

what this was about is that it's not a normal case. This was in Maryland where the chief judge of that district just earlier in the Trump administration said there are a lot of detainees in immigration proceedings coming to us with emergency requests to not have them deported so that we would be able to look at those cases.

And the chief judge said, OK, we're going to pump the brakes for two days and just put a whole hold on the U.S. sending any of those people out of the country to a place like potentially Uganda or another country. The Justice Department, instead of appealing that, they sued the whole lot of judges in Maryland, all 15 judges on the federal district bench.

Cullen, he's at the same level. And so he's saying I don't have the ability to --

TAPPER: Right.

POLANTZ: -- stop these other judges that I'm colleagues with, also trial level district court judges. And then also he says this is not what the country is about. With three branches of government, we should not just be fighting against each other. The justice system versus the chief executive.

Another thing he writes, regrettably, this lawsuit effectively pits two of the branches against one another. One branch's alleged infringement on another's exclusive power does not license a constitutional free-for-all. He did note that the Justice Department if they have a problem with this order from the judges in Maryland, they can appeal.

TAPPER: They can appeal. Elie Honig, could a different judge have seen this differently?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Jake I legitimately do not think a single federal judge in this country would see this district this differently. And by the way, the appeal that was just filed, they're going to lose. Like I try to not do predictions, the Trump administration will absolutely lose that appeal.

[17:25:00]

You know, the expression that we're all focusing on is constitutional, free-for-all, I actually don't even think that's quite right because a free-for-all suggests something haphazard. It's more like a constitutional mockery. What happened here when the district court judges in Maryland made this ruling that Trump did not like, what he should have done is appeal. Instead, what he did is essentially say to the judges, you should shut yourselves down.

And the basis that this judge dismissed Trump's lawsuit on is two things. He said, you don't have standing and you don't have cause of action. That translates to you have no business in this court. And the thing you're asking us to do is not even a thing that exists in the law. TAPPER: And Elie, obviously the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia has been

getting most of the attention. You write of the unraveling of the prosecution against him. You say, quote, seemingly in recognition of the infirmity of its criminal case, the Justice Department has already begun to construct an off ramp for itself. They've now laid the groundwork for a full scale retreat, unquote.

HONIG: Yes.

TAPPER: So what does that mean? Where does this go next?

HONIG: So I wrote that in June, a few months ago, and now it's happening. So there's two different things happening with respect to Kilmar Abrego Garcia at once. There's the effort to deport him, which is in immigration courts, and then there's the indictment, the criminal prosecution in, of course, the federal criminal courts.

What happened, though, is the federal criminal judge gave him bail because the defense team went in there and basically peeled the bark off the case showed that the allegations are based on third and fourth hand hearsay. And so the judge said, I find you have a weak case. I'm releasing him.

But what's happening now is immigration authorities have now arrested Kilmar Abrego Garcia. And they're trying to get him out of here because they don't want to try this case because they know they put out this big, splashy indictment. The attorney general made a big announcement about it. They know they don't have the goods. They desperately are trying to get him out of here so they don't ever have to go into court and back up the indictment that they brought.

TAPPER: But aren't they just overshooting this? I mean, now they're trying to send him to Uganda. Couldn't they just deport him to Costa Rica tomorrow?

HONIG: 100 percent. In fact, that's what Kilmar Abrego Garcia's team is saying. They're saying they've worked it out with Costa Rica. He can be sent there, he can be deported there, and that's what he wants. They're asking, and the administration is still saying no. We want to send him halfway around the world to Uganda, a place where he has zero connections and where I think his team is going to argue. He faces risk of being persecuted. They're going to fight that.

TAPPER: All right, Elie Honig, Katelyn Polantz, thanks so much. Appreciate both of you. Coming up, the disturbing wave of active shooter on college campus. Charges or announcements, alarms that are turning out to be fakes. They're not really happening. What's going on here?

And why is technology making it more difficult for investigators to do their job?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[17:32:04]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And this storm is rolling in. Look at how fast that sucker is moving. It is going to take us over here in two seconds.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: In our National Lead, at a towering wall of dust, better known as a Haboob, rolling through Phoenix, Arizona, last night. It created a scene right out of the Book of Revelation, swallowing highways, neighborhoods, and the downtown skyline. The massive dust storm left 60 -- 60,000 customers without power, an hour of grounded flights, and major wind damage. The Haboob comes after a weekend dust storm in Nevada that blew through the Burning Man Festival. Let's go to CNN meteorologist Allison Chinchar. Allison, how unusual are these Haboob?

ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Jake, during monsoon season, it is not uncommon to have these dust storms known as Haboobs. Take a look at the time-lapse video behind me. You can start to see that giant wall of dust rushing into the city of Phoenix there. But once the dust begins to settle, then you start to see the raindrops. And that's because this came from a thunderstorm in the general area causing this Haboob.

So we take a look at what an actual Haboob is. So here you can see the parent thunderstorm in the background. And oftentimes you'll get outflow or the very strong winds from the thunderstorm that rush down to the ground. And it will pick up the dirt, the sand, anything down there, churning it up and sending it thousands of feet into the air, which unfortunately can lead to zero visibility on the roads if you happen to be driving.

So let's break down what actually happened yesterday. This is about 5:30 p.m. local time in Phoenix. This is the thunderstorm in question. Now, the temperature at this time was still in the triple digits, winds maybe roughly about 20 miles per hour. But you fast-forward just 15 minutes as that storm gets closer. The temperature has now dropped into the 90s. Winds are also starting to pick up around 60 miles per hour.

Then you go a few minutes later. The temperature is now down to the mid-70s with wind gusts of 70 miles an hour. So not only did we see those winds increase, but the temperature has now dropped 35 degrees in just 30 minutes. We do anticipate more showers and thunderstorms in the forecast for the remainder of the evening tonight, not just for Phoenix, but for much of the desert southwest.

TAPPER: All right, Allison Chinchar, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

In our Health Lead, losing weight could potentially come in the form of a single pill with no injections needed. Eli Lilly, the pharmaceutical that makes the injectable drug Zepbound to treat obesity, has a new GLP-1 pill for weight loss. After releasing positive trial results, the company says it's planning to request global regulatory approval this year. The pill's side effects are similar to that of GLP-1 injectables, including nausea and vomiting. [17:34:53]

Coming up next, the repeated calls about active shooters on college campuses that turn out to be fake. The difficult task for authorities investigating these crimes, that's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our National Lead, what should be a moment of excitement and joy for students and parents across the country has, for many, too many, turned to terror. Over the last week, at least nine colleges and universities received fake threats of active shooters in what law enforcement is calling a frightening new trend.

Just today, the University of Arkansas, West Virginia University, the University of Kentucky and Central Georgia Technical College, all of them were swatted. Situations where police rush in and clear an area in response to fake calls about shootings on the campus. Shootings that are not happening, thankfully, but still, it is terrorizing the communities.

[17:40:04]

Villanova University, the University of South Carolina and the University of Tennessee, also all experienced similar calls in recent days. Let's bring in CNN security correspondent, Josh Campbell. Josh, what in the world is going on?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, a sad reality in this country is that students and teachers have to deal with school shootings, but now they're also have to -- having to deal with these terrifying hoaxes that are coming in this latest wave. As you mentioned yesterday, six alone. This current wave started last week whenever reports of shots being fired came in at the University of Tennessee at Chattanooga. Officers responded to reports that someone had opened fire a few hours later at Villanova University in Pennsylvania, a very similar report.

Again, these cause widespread chaos. They prompt a massive police response as authorities try to determine if they're actually dealing with a gunman. Take a listen here. We're getting some of the reaction from some of the students, including this law student at Villanova who described what happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICK NIEMCZYK, VILLANOVA LAW STUDENT: A lot of law enforcement on the scene. They were looking for the shooter or the perpetrator in the building. But, you know, it was definitely a scary scene, and, you know, they did a great job of getting everyone out.

CAMPBELL: What was the phone call like with your parents? Were they freaking out?

NIEMCZYK: Absolutely. They -- they were very scared, but they were very grateful I was OK, and I'm just very lucky. (END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMPBELL: So obviously the good news, it didn't happen, but these can often cause injuries as people are fleeing, and obviously they can be very dangerous. To that end, local law enforcement there, they're vowing to try to get to the bottom of who may be responsible for these latest incidents. Take a listen here to the district attorney there just outside Philadelphia.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACK STOLLSTEIMER, DISTRICT ATTORNEY, DELAWARE COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA: My office, criminal investigation division, the FBI, we're all going to work to try to get to the bottom of who might have done this because if this was indeed a cruel hoax, this is a crime, and we will track you down if it's the last thing we do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMPBELL: Now, Jake, you and I have covered so many of these, but one thing that's worth noting is that not only have there been injuries, but there was also a man who was shot and killed in one of these past incidents when police arrived, mistook him for an actual threat. So although these are hoaxes, they're very dangerous.

TAPPER: It's not incredibly new, this crime, even if this trend is spreading, but you say it's evolved with new technology. What do you mean?

CAMPBELL: Yes, you know, this goes back decades. It started people going after celebrities. I've talked to law enforcement experts who say that certain motivations have changed. Sometimes it's people just trying to get attention. Sometimes it's -- they're acting on some kind of grievance. But the through line that's making it difficult for investigators now is that a lot of these actors are using voiceover internet. They're spoofing their numbers, and so they're taking pains to try to mask their identity.

However, law enforcement has noticed certain trends, and this is information they're pushing out to agencies across the country. Look at some of these indicators. If it's only one call of an active shooter that's coming in to police, that could be a red flag. We know in this day and age so many people flood 911 whenever there's an actual incident. Also, if the person is calling a non-emergency line rather than 911, that could be a signal that they're using that voiceover internet, which often can't access the 911 system.

And then the last thing they've seen is that oftentimes the caller's tone doesn't match the urgency of the moment. Someone might be very subdued in their voice, but they're saying that there's a shooting happening in front of them. All that said, these people continue to evolve. I mean, just think about this sinister attribute of this whole thing. Jake, a lot of these callers will now call in and then play the sound of fake gunshots in the background. So, again, law enforcement, their job is to try to stop a threat if it's there. It causes chaos, and -- and it's certainly dangerous, as I said. TAPPER: Have authorities had any luck with making any arrests?

CAMPBELL: As difficult as they are, we have seen some arrests take place. The FBI, under the past director, Christopher Wray, created this task force with law enforcement agencies across the country, again, trying to help them determine if there's a swatting incident in their jurisdiction. Could that have been -- been related to another one? Is this the same perpetrator we're dealing with? There have been international arrests that have been made, with the FBI working with its foreign partners.

And to talk about how -- how severe some of the consequences are, there was a teen here in California that was arrested this year. He was just sentenced to four years in federal prison for making calls just like this.

TAPPER: Josh Campbell, thanks so much.

CAMPBELL: You bet.

[17:44:27]

TAPPER: Coming up, the pressure from within, massive protests today demanding that the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, agree to a proposal to free the hostages. The Israeli ambassador to the United States will join us ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: A serious moment in our World Lead now on this date four years ago amid the chaotic U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan. A terrorist in the crowd at the Abbey Gate, which is a civilian gate into the Kabul airport, detonated a suicide bomb. And that blast killed 13 members of the U.S. military, including 11 Marines, one soldier, and a Navy corpsman. And along with the ensuing chaos, about 170 Afghans were killed, Afghans who were desperately trying to flee from the Taliban takeover. They also were killed.

Some of the Gold Star families were at the White House yesterday. President Trump signed a proclamation commemorating the sacrifice of their loved ones. And two of those Gold Star moms are with us now. Christy Shamblin is the mother-in-law of U.S. Marine Sergeant Nicole Gee. You might recall Nicole Gee from her Instagram post we're showing right now. It's her holding an Afghan child. And she wrote on Instagram, I love my job.

Also with us is Paula Knauss-Selph, the mother of U.S. Army Staff Sergeant Ryan Christian Knauss, who is 23 and originally from the state of Tennessee. Thank you both for your sacrifice and your willingness to talk, especially on today, a horrible, horrible anniversary. Let's start with you, Christy.

Tell us about Nicole. What do you want our viewers to know about her? What do you want them to remember about her? Let's start with you, Christy. Tell us about Nicole. What do you want our viewers to know about her? What do you want them to remember about her? [17:50:09]

CHRISTY SHAMBLIN, MOTHER-IN-LAW OF U.S. MARINE SGT. NICOLE GEE: She was a ray of light and embraced the attitude that a positive mental attitude could cure all of your problems. She was a constant source of encouragement for her fellow Marines and for her family and loved ones. And she would want to continue that encouragement.

TAPPER: Paula, tell us about your son, Ryan.

PAULA KNAUSS-SELPH, MOTHER OF U.S. ARMY STAFF SGT. RYAN KNAUSS: Ryan lit up a room, as his brothers in the Armed Forces told me. He could walk into a room and see the positive in something. It showed his maturity as he grew older and wiser in team -- being a team player. And one thing that's just remarkable about -- about Ryan was that he used his brains with his brawn in all of this. And so the PSYOPs unit was a perfect match for him.

TAPPER: Both of you were at the White House yesterday, along with other Gold Star families, when President Trump signed this proclamation honoring your loved ones. Christy, what was that like?

SHAMBLIN: It was really amazing. It was a moment I'll never forget to have their names echo in the halls of the White House was spectacular.

TAPPER: And Paula, what was it like for you?

KNAUSS-SELPH: Well, I'm just appreciative that we finally have a president who is not going to allow the tragedy of our children or the tragedy of all of the events that happened in -- in the ensuing August 26th, 2021 debacle to be swept under the rug. And it is great to hear that there's a continued push to see justice for these children.

TAPPER: The presidential proclamation is unusual. In addition to the well-deserved words of praise for your loved ones, it also had some very pointed criticisms of the former president, President Biden. Do any of -- do you -- do you two or any of the Gold Star families do you ever hear from any members of the Biden administration? Let me start with you, Christy.

SHAMBLIN: Never. Not -- not once. Never.

TAPPER: Paula?

KNAUSS-SELPH: Of course. Back in '22 and Memorial Day, it was a sad time when the President Biden and I met face to face in the White House. And it was one of the most saddest moments of my life as a mother coming face to face with him. His first words out of his mouth as I walked across to meet him was, I can understand if you're angry. Well, I'm glad he did because America wasn't forgetful of what was happening also.

And as I grieved as the mother in front of him, he had no sympathy or empathy on a such a incredible day as Memorial Day to just show a little kindness. And I always have said it was such a character mark for him to have not at least had empathy and sympathy at that moment when a mother's crying in front of him on Memorial Day at his invitation to be there.

TAPPER: You mentioned that the investigation is ongoing. The U.S. military did conduct two reviews of the bombing, and those reviews concluded that it was a lone bomber carrying out the attack, dismissing reports of gunfire at the time. The Pentagon also said that the members had not previously seen the suspected bomber ahead of the attack, but they believe they had originally because of conflated intelligence reporting. Christy, are you satisfied with the conclusions of the two investigations so far?

SHAMBLIN: I'm not satisfied so far because it doesn't give us a path forward to make sure this never happens again. We don't get to bring our heroes back. We don't get that choice. But we want to make sure this never, ever happens again. And you have to learn from your mistakes. And first, you have to acknowledge those mistakes were made.

TAPPER: Paula, next year, remark five years since the attack. There are sure to be even more events to mark the anniversary. Do -- do you all -- do you Gold Star families do you keep in touch? And how do you cope with the passage of time and -- and all of this? It's such a horrible anniversary.

KNAUSS-SELPH: Well, it's been four years. And there are times when the White House will call on behalf of the president and his cabinet to bring us together so that they can say, hey, we haven't forgotten you. We haven't forgot your children. We know them by name. And we will never forget what happened so that we do not allow that to happen again in our administration.

TAPPER: And I know one of the masterminds, so to speak, of -- of the terrorist attack is currently in Virginia. And he will be tried for killing for his -- his role in that horrible, horrible -- that horrible day. Christy Shamblin and Paula Knauss-Selph, thank you so much. And please know that we have not forgotten your loved ones either. And everybody watching right now, I'm sure, has nothing but love and support and prayers for you.

[17:55:18]

SHAMBLIN: Thank you very much.

KNAUSS-SELPH: Thank you, sir. And love you, Christy.

TAPPER: The term unprecedented coming up yet again to describe actions by the President. This time, his efforts could have massive implications for the U.S. economy and your money. We'll get into that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. This hour, President Trump's attacks on the Federal Reserve entering a new phase as he defends his decision to try to fire one of the Fed's governors, Lisa Cook. And now Cook's lawyer says she is going to file a lawsuit against Trump challenging her removal. But how much of any of this is about Cook's alleged misconduct conduct? And how much is about Trump wanting to control the Fed?

[17:59:58]

Plus, blocked highways and burning tires in Israel today as protesters, Israelis, call for a ceasefire deal in Gaza that would secure the release of the remaining hostages.