Return to Transcripts main page

The Lead with Jake Tapper

Deployment Of National Guard In Chicago An "Invasion" Says Gov. Pritzker; Judge Blocks Deportation Of Guatemalan Kids; A Boy Dies When Doorbell Prank Goes Wrong; Rudy Giuliani Injured In Car Crash; House Oversight Committee To Receive Epstein Files And Talk To Epstein Victims; 2025 U.S. Open Theme Artist Explains Her Creative Design; Chatbot Convinces Man Untrustworthy Info Is True; TSA Expects More Than 17M Labor Day Passengers. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired September 01, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, FAREED ZAKARIA GPS: It led to massive tariffs designed to help one industry.

UNKNOWN: Depression, fear and failures of the nation.

ZAKARIA: Which then damaged the entire economy. This is the story of the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act, a law that carries dire warnings for America today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN CHIEF INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT & HOST: That's tonight at 8:00 eastern right here on CNN. Thanks to my panel. We appreciate you all and Phil Mattingly, he knows a thing or two about tariffs, is standing by for "The Lead." Hey, Phil. Hope you have a great show.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT & HOST: Hey, Pam. Go home to your family. We'll look for more in "The Arena" tomorrow.

BROWN: Sounds good. Thanks, Phil.

MATTINGLY: Chicago is bracing for Trump's immigration crackdown. "The Lead" starts right now. Officials in the Windy City are warning President Trump against a major immigration enforcement operation, which sources say is set to start as soon as this week. Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker says sending National Guard troops to his state would be a quote, "invasion." But is there anything he can do to stop it?

Plus, is Congress about to get its hands on more Epstein records? What we're learning about a request for financial documents related to Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. And whether Epstein's estate is planning to turn over the so-called birthday book.

And it's a busy day on the court at the most prestigious major tennis tournament in the U.S. But that artwork you're seeing all around the U.S. Open, that's also breaking barriers. And the artist behind it joins me live this hour.

Welcome to "The Lead." I'm Phil Mattingly in for Jake Tapper. In our "Politics Lead," protests today in Chicago as the Windy City braces for a major federal immigration enforcement operation, an operation that could begin by Friday of this week. Now that's according to multiple sources familiar with the plans and Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem yesterday confirmed quote, "more resources will be added to ongoing ICE operations there."

At the same time, but separately, President Trump is also threatening federal intervention to crack down on crime in Chicago. At least 53 people were shot, seven of them fatally, over this holiday weekend. Victims range in age from 14 to 46. Democratic leaders there are resisting any such moves from Trump. The mayor of Chicago signed an executive order saying Chicago police will not collaborate with federal agents on immigration enforcement. And Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker said it would be an invasion if Trump sends U.S. troops into Chicago.

Now, we of course have been seeing similar scenes playing out right here in Washington, D.C. where Trump's crime crackdown involves the National Guard. On Truth Social today, Trump actually praised D.C.'s Democratic mayor for working with him. And then wrote, quote, "others like Pritzker, Westmore, Newscum, and the 5 percent approval rated mayor of Chicago, who spend all their time trying to justify violent crime instead of working with us to completely eliminate it."

We start things off with Priscilla Alvarez here in studio. And Priscilla, what more are we learning about what could happen in terms of this immigration operation in Chicago?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: When I'm talking to my sources about this, the first thing that they cite is Los Angeles and what we saw there. Recall that the administration also had bolstered their presence in that city with U.S. Customs and Border Protection, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, as well as National Guard. National Guard at the time when they were there were there to quell protests, but then they also served as a peacekeeping presence. If you recall, they would, for example, sort of surround some operations as they were ongoing as a measure of security.

So when I speak to my sources, they say that really is the blueprint as they're looking toward Chicago. Now, Chicago has been a target for the Trump administration from the beginning. In fact, just in late January, it was one of the first cities that they targeted as part of their immigration enforcement actions. Well, this is going to be a lot bigger, and that includes, for example, sending armored vehicles, sending personnel, surging personnel, and even talking about using a naval base nearby as a hub for that personnel.

National Guard similarly is being discussed as a peacekeeping presence. So remember that the way that Washington, D.C. is, is different. There is more authorities here that the administration can use, different from what they can do in Chicago, but focusing on the immigration enforcement part of this is where they can flex some of that executive authority. So we'll see how that goes.

As you mentioned, local officials say they haven't received any coordination from the administration on this, so we'll see how it all unfolds, but my source is telling me that this could happen this week, including more specifically on Friday.

MATTINGLY: On a different matter, but no less in terms of importance on the same subject, it was Friday when you broke the news that the Trump administration was considering removing hundreds of Guatemalan children. That story was extremely fast moving over the course of the weekend, including at one point, I think some children being on planes, maybe even starting to fly out and then having to be returned. Explain to people what happened here.

[17:04:59]

ALVAREZ: Yeah, this really picked up pace quickly. So late Saturday and early morning on Sunday, attorneys who represent these children were advised that their clients were going to be repatriated to Guatemala. Immediately, that's far concerned because some of these children are still going through immigration proceedings in the U.S. to determine if they have a protection here.

While that was happening, the shelter providers that are taking care of these children were told to prepare to discharge these kids within a matter of hours, two hours, two to four hours, collect their personal belongings, medications, and any other necessary paperwork, as well as snacks for the travel. This is happening in the early morning hours of Sunday.

One immigration attorney told me that her clients were woken up in the middle of the night and she described them as being both terrified and confused. So this turned into a lawsuit which was filed again early Sunday. In fact, the federal judge in proceedings yesterday said she was woken up at 2:30 in the morning as all of this was ongoing. Well, that federal judge has blocked the removals for now. And this lawsuit gives us little bit of insight into who we're talking about here.

For example, one of the children is a 10-year-old. Her mother is deceased, and she was fleeing abuse and neglect from family members in Guatemala. The administration, on the other hand, is pushing back. They say that this is in coordination with the Guatemalan government to reunify them with parents and legal guardians in country. And it becomes complicated, Phil, because it is true that there are some children who want to return. When that happens, however, they have to go through an immigration process to unpack and make sure that that is the safest option for them.

In other cases, though, these children were fleeing some of those circumstances, and they still have to go through a process here in the United States. So for now, the Justice Department said that 74 children who were on those planes on the tarmac have been de-planned. They've been put back in U.S. custody as these legal proceedings are ongoing over the course of this week.

MATTINGLY: Yeah, and clearly a lot more to play out there, but as you noted, a great window into what was actually happening. Very complex, confusing couple of days. Great reporting as always. Priscilla Alvarez, thanks so much.

Well, joining me now, former Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel. Rahm, really appreciate the time. Just to start with the idea of Chicago facing federal action on two fronts. Immigration first, the mayor signing an order affirming that Chicago police will not collaborate with federal agents on immigration enforcement. Is this something you think, A, can work and, B, a route you would have gone?

RAHM EMANUEL, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL & GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: Yeah, so Phil, both crime and immigration are serious issues not being dealt with seriously by President Trump. He made a note, he says, why don't you work with me? The opposite, which is, look, there's a strategy for fighting crime. Put more police on the street doing community policing and get kids, guns, and gangs off the street. Invest in any one of those. Help the city recruit and train permanent police presence. That would go a long way.

Second, on immigration. We're both a country of immigrants and a country of laws. Fix the immigration isn't on the tarmac sending kids back to Guatemala any more than it is sending National Guard into the city of Chicago. It's in the halls of Congress. Send a bill up to Congress. Not every president, let's be honest, since Ronald Reagan signed the last immigration bill, has used bubble gum, rubber, glue, and rubber bands and rope to try to figure out an immigration policy because what was signed in 1986 doesn't work today.

And the North Star in the arena is Congress. The North Star president shows some leadership and fix both a nation of immigrants and a nation of laws. But what's going to happen here in like L.A. is not going to change the immigration status of the city. He's not going to go into back of the yards a little --

(TECHNICAL DIFFICULTY)

MATTINGLY: I believe we lost Rahm for a minute in his audio. We're going to try and get him back, but we will continue to figure out what's actually happening on that front. Rahm Emanuel, if we don't get back to you, thank you very much for your time.

Well, a young boy in Texas plays Ding Dong Ditch, a game where you ring a doorbell and then you run away. Now he's dead after being shot. So what exactly happened here?

And new details are emerging about a car accident that sent Trump's former attorney Rudy Giuliani to the hospital. We'll have the latest next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:10:00]

MATTINGLY: Let's return to our "Politics Lead" and continue our discussion with former Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel. Rahm, when we left you, you were making the point that there are a lot of things on a coordinated, cooperative basis, including a legislative process that local officials would like to see. It is also very clear that this administration wants this fight and doesn't want to go that route on some level.

EMANUEL: Yeah.

MATTINGLY: Local officials in Chicago, are they equipped to handle what's coming on a political side of things?

EMANUEL: Well, everybody in Chicago knows that this is political. It's performative by the President. This is a political stage. This is not dealing with immigration. As somebody that was responsible for putting Operation Gatekeeper in San Diego, the Operation Safeguard down in Nogales for President Clinton, there's a way to confront immigration at the border and stop it. And there's also a way, with President Obama, to deal with DACA, Dreamer kids, that is consistent with both being a nation of laws and a nation of immigrants.

You know, California didn't change when it related, or Los Angeles specifically, to immigration. That's not going to happen here in Chicago. It's really for the theater of it. The fix of this is not on the streets of city Chicago any more than it's at an airport with kids on the way back to Guatemala. It's going to be done in the halls of Congress. And the President has to send up a piece of legislation to deal with this.

And it's not happening because this is a performative act. As I said early on, the issue of immigration, the issue of crime are serious issues not being dealt seriously by the president. And it's more divisive than it is trying to figure out how to solve the problem. Every president has had to deal with the problem because we haven't updated our immigration policy since Ronald Reagan signed the Simpson- Mazzoli in the late '80s.

[17:15:04]

MATTINGLY: There's an ongoing debate among Democratic leaders, Democratic officials, of do you fight this in a similarly hyperbolic slash theatrical way or is there another path here? What do you think?

EMANUEL: Well, I believe that you lay out a case and as I, again, start with the American people have turned south on the President's immigration problem. And in my own view, Phil, you know, in the past under President Biden, the border being out of control was the locus of disorder. President Trump now is the locus of disorder and that's why his numbers are now underwater on handling immigration.

You have criminal elements here, get them out. The kids from going back to Guatemala are not the criminal element. That is not the problem that we have. Families that live in the back of the yards are Pilsen or in Little Village here in Chicago have the Hispanic communities. Those are hardworking families. That's not what the American people wanted. They respect the fact that we're a country of immigrants, as I say, and a country of laws. And we have to have an update that reflects both of those and enforces both of those. What I would do is put the -- and you have a division within the

Republican Party between those who support legal immigration and those who are against legal. That's the division. Democrats are ready to cooperate on fighting illegal immigration. Let's have a discussion on what it means to be a legal immigrant in the way that my family came to this country over 100 years ago and other families have also come here in more recent times because America has a draw on people. That's the strength of America.

Illegal immigration, the law will follow you wherever you go. You break the law in the United States for coming, we get that. There's an agreement and consensus about tough enforcement at the border, tough enforcement at the workplace. There's a division within the Republican Party on legal immigration.

MATTINGLY: Former Chicago mayor, appreciate your patience, sticking with us in the conversation as always. Thanks so much.

EMANUEL: It was so eloquent. It was so eloquent when I was cut off.

MATTINGLY: I had no doubt.

EMANUEL: Thanks, Phil. Have a good Labor Day.

MATTINGLY: I had no doubt. I'll let everyone know that what they didn't hear was brilliance, sheer brilliance. I appreciate it.

EMANUEL: All right.

MATTINGLY: Thank you. Well, turning now to a tragic story in our "National Lead," in Texas, a childhood prank resulted in the death of an 11-year-old boy this weekend. Houston police say the young boy and his friends were playing a game of ding dong ditch just before he was killed. CNN's Ed Lavandera is live in Houston, and Ed, what have we been learning from police?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well this incident happened Saturday night around 11 p.m. and according to Houston police an 11-year-old boy and in a group of kids were running through this neighborhood in East Houston knocking on doors, ringing doorbells and then running away as the time-honored tradition of playing ding-dong ditch for young kids. And that is when Houston police say that a man emerged from the house and shot at the group of kids as they were running away.

The 11-year-old was shot in the back and later died from those injuries. However, Houston police have still not filed any criminal charges against the shooter. We're awaiting word on how that is going to continue to transpire. We checked in with Houston police a short while ago and we still don't have any update on that. They say that they continue to investigate this matter. And as all of that happens, neighbors in this area say they're rattled by what has happened here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE SKINNER, NEIGHBOR: It's real upsetting, you know, you're young, you're a kid, and it's a whole lot going on. So, far I ain't never seen no bad children out here, and there's no way you can mistaken, that kid was somebody grown or to do you any harm, and that's what hurts so bad.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAVANDERA: Houston police detective did say that from the initial investigation so far, they do not believe that a self-defense claim would stand in this particular case, that it could be a murder charge that is filed and that is because the shooting took place the children were away from the house when the child was hit by the gunfire. So all of that, it continues to be investigated. Houston police have taken into possession firearms that were found at the home where this shooting erupted from so this investigation continues to play out this afternoon, Phil.

MATTINGLY: Tragic story. Ed Lavandera, great reporting as always. Thank you. Well also in our "National Lead," just moments ago, President Trump announced on Truth Social that former New York mayor and personal lawyer for the president Rudy Giuliani will quote, "receive the Presidential Medal of Freedom," our country's highest civilian honor. That honor or the announcement of it comes as we're learning new details about a serious car crash involving Giuliani. It took place in New Hampshire over the weekend. CNN's Gloria Pazmino has more.

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Phil. We're getting some details about what is frankly a bit of a bizarre story involving the former New York City mayor and President Trump's former personal attorney Rudy Giuliani involved in a car accident.

[17:20:04]

Severely injured over this weekend, his spokesperson says that Giuliani is in the hospital recovering after a vehicle struck them from behind at high velocity. Now, police officials say that Giuliani was in Manchester, New Hampshire. This happened shortly after he left a baseball game where he had been spending the evening. He was driving on the highway and while they were driving, they saw a woman who apparently was the victim of a domestic violence incident, flagged them down for help. They pulled over, called 911 and waited in their vehicle for police to arrive.

Now, according to Giuliani's spokesperson, when the police arrived, they got back in their vehicle and began to drive away. And it was at that moment that a vehicle struck them from behind. There was a 19- year-old woman who was behind the wheel of that car. In total, three people were transferred to the hospital. And as I said, the former mayor is suffering some pretty significant injuries including a fractured vertebrae.

Now, we've heard from Rudy Giuliani's son who took to social media to thank people for their support saying, "Thank you to all the people that have reached out since learning the news about my father." He thanked people for praying for him and he said he believes his dad is tough and will make it through this. Now, we are still waiting to learn more information about exactly what

happened with this car accident and if police are investigating further. Rudy Giuliani's spokesperson said that so far it all seemed like a matter of being at the wrong place and at the wrong time. Phil?

MATTINGLY: Gloria Pazmino, thanks so much. Well, are some members of Congress about to get their hands on the Jeffrey Epstein birthday book and other documents from his estate? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:25:00]

MATTINGLY: In our "Law & Justice Lead," the latest twist in the Jeffrey Epstein saga. The House Oversight Committee is requesting, quote, "suspicious financial documents tied to both Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell." Now this comes as Oversight Committee Democrats said they'll receiving a number of records from the Epstein estate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ROBERT GARCIA (D-CA): We finally got word from the Epstein estate. They're going to be providing the actual Epstein book, that famous book where that note that Donald Trump drew and doodled to Jeffrey Epstein, his so-called best friend of 10 to 15 years. The Epstein estate is actually going to actually now get us that book and a bunch of other documents that they have.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Now, as that process plays out, we're also learning that House members are planning on holding a news conference this week alongside victims of Epstein's sex trafficking. CNN's Brian Todd is here with the latest. And Brian, what are we expecting from this news conference?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's going to be interesting to see. These are victims, Phil, that have -- some of them have never been heard from publicly before. So we really don't know what to expect from them. But what's interesting about this week and next week is that we're about to see more activity than we've seen in a long time regarding the Jeffrey Epstein case and most if not all of that activity is going to be on Capitol Hill.

It starts tomorrow when Representative James Comer, he is the Republican Chairman of the House Oversight Committee. He says that he and the rest of the panel are going to meet with victims of alleged sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein and will meet with the victims' attorneys. Comer says this will be Republicans and Democrats on the panel meeting with those victims tomorrow, September 2nd. Now, recently, the House Oversight Committee received a set of documents from the Department of Justice on the Epstein matter.

Democrats say those documents do not reveal much new information about the Jeffrey Epstein case. Comer says all of this, meaning the meeting with the victims tomorrow and their efforts to get more documents, this is all he says in an effort to increase transparency regarding the House Oversight Committee's dealings regarding the Jeffrey Epstein case because he says constituents have been pressing for more information on the Jeffrey Epstein matter.

But Comer says this is a lot more complicated than people realize because there are sensitivities around releasing unredacted documents and he wants to discuss all of that with the victims and their lawyers. Take a listen to what Comer said to Fox News yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JAMES COMER (R-KY): We want to protect their futures and their reputations and their families. So we're going to have a good conversation to see how best then to turn around and present this information to the American people.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

Now meanwhile, other lawmakers are going to try to force a vote on a bipartisan bill that would require the Trump administration to release more information on Jeffrey Epstein. That effort is being led by Democratic Representative Ro Khanna and Republican Representative Thomas Massey, both of them say they're going to host a news conference on Wednesday again with Epstein victims who have never spoken out publicly. So, Phil, we're be watching to see what comes to that meeting tomorrow with the Oversight Committee and especially that news conference on Wednesday with Representatives Khanna and Massey.

MATTINGLY: Good reminder. Lawmakers have been out of town for the last month.

TODD: Yeah.

MATTINGLY: They are now back and still very focused on this issue. When it comes to the documents, you mentioned, you know, there's been tens of thousands of documents handed over. Democrats, as you noted, weren't exactly thrilled with the duplicative nature of many of them. What are they expecting coming forward?

TODD: Well, that's going to be really interesting, Phil. We know what they're going to be looking for. They're going to be looking for financial documents and other things. You guys just ran a clip of Representative Robert Garcia, the ranking member of the House Oversight Committee, telling MSNBC that they expect to get this birthday book handed over to them and a bunch of other documents.

Of course, that book includes a collection of letters that were given to Jeffrey Epstein on his 50th birthday, one of which included a note bearing President Donald Trump's name. President Trump, we should say, have repeatedly denied writing that note and he sued the "Wall Street Journal" for defamation.

[17:30:18]

But the committee, Phil, also seeking Epstein's will all nondisclosure agreements regarding him, his financial documents and any document of record that could be considered a potential list of clauses of clients, that elusive list of clients, whether it exists or not, maybe the House Oversight Committee will find that and get that soon.

MATTINGLY: The velocity of this story is about to pick back up again.

TODD: Yes.

MATTINGLY: Very busy times for you ahead. Brian Todd, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

Well, the U.S. Open is in full swing this holiday weekend, but it's the official artwork of the famed tennis tournament that is breaking barriers. Let me introduce you to the artist, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:35:00]

MATTINGLY: In our Sports Lead, if you did not know, the U.S. Open has a theme every year. You've probably been watching it behind every player you've seen over the course of the last couple of days. Now, this year celebrates 75 years of breaking barriers, and it features the theme art you're looking at right now, honoring the late tennis legend, Althea Gibson.

Now, in 1950, Gibson was the first black athlete allowed to compete at the U.S. National Championships, which are now known as the U.S. Open. She went on to win five major tennis titles and became the first black woman to win the U.S. Nationals, French Championship, and Wimbledon. Melissa Koby is the artist behind the 2025 U.S. Open theme, and she joins us now.

Melissa, what you created, you know, we were actually talking about it during the break. It's like I constantly see it, sometimes without even knowing I'm looking at it, throughout watching this tournament. When this was announced in May, did you think, I think it was in May, did you think, did you think -- did you understand, I think, the scale of what this was going to mean once the tournament started where it's on all kinds of merchandise, it's the backdrop of all the players every single day?

MELISSA KOBY, ARTIST: Hi, everyone. I had no idea. It's a great question because I did not fully understand the magnitude of my involvement with this -- with this year's theme until I was actually there. It became this fully immersive experience, and everywhere I looked, there was my artwork. It's a lot to take in. I still, like, I'm still processing what I -- I was able to witness while there.

MATTINGLY: Can we -- I want to talk about the artwork itself because I actually didn't recognize, I -- I saw kind of the silhouette of Althea Gibson, you can see her serving, but there's a depth in creativity in the colorful layered paper here because there's the U.S. Open blue tennis court in the middle, obviously Arthur Ashe Stadium, as I noted, Gibson preparing a serve. The process, what were you thinking about as you put this together? KOBY: You -- you actually said something. I'm not sure where you're exactly headed, but I will try to finish that for you. I -- I wanted the piece to be a conversation piece. I've always -- I've always said that I wanted whatever artwork I create to be something that is fully representative of who Althea Gibson was, but I had to understand while creating it that I could not tell her entire story, so what I decided to do was just tell a little bit of it, just enough to get people talking and trying my best in my small artistic way to preserve a little bit of her legacy.

I love that there are conversations being had around who she was just by looking at the piece, and that's really all I wanted. She was so multifaceted and multilayered that I wanted to incorporate layers to her story, as I call it. And, yes, I wanted it to be just fully her in that profile, but I wanted people to be able to ask questions while looking at each layer of it and just kind of making that connection to who she was.

MATTINGLY: You mentioned kind of being there, seeing this, taking it all in, kind of trying to understand the magnitude of the moment. I believe, if I recall correctly, this is the first time you've physically been at the U.S. Open. Is that right?

KOBY: Yes, it was. It was honestly the most incredible experience of my life. I'm -- I'm home now, and life is so regular, and I -- I don't know if I can ever reclaim that feeling of -- of not only being at the Opens and seeing my artwork everywhere, but also being surrounded by people that were directly impacted by Althea Gibson. I saw former players who she directly inspired. I saw Venus Williams play for the first time wearing white in a tribute to Althea Gibson's first match.

All of it was just so surreal, and I -- I don't know if I can ever live that -- anything can live up to that moment or that experience for me, to be honest.

MATTINGLY: That is completely understandable. It's been so cool to kind of watch the recognition and -- and the conversations that you have started with your brilliant work. Melissa Koby, congratulations. Thanks so much.

KOBY: Thank you so much for your time.

[17:39:14]

MATTINGLY: Well, up next, one man shares his terrifying journey about how he allowed A.I. to take over his life and the lesson he learned about how to shut it off. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: In our Tech Lead, one man's experience with artificial intelligence that serves as a warning in almost a horror story. CNN's Hadas Gold reports on how A.I. convinced this man to believe in and act on things that turned out to be totally wrong.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) ALLAN BROOKS, CO-FOUNDER OF AI SUPPORT GROUP "THE HUMAN LINE": I was completely isolated. I was devastated. I was broken.

HADAS GOLD, CNN MEDIA CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Allan Brooks, a father of three who lives outside Toronto, says he spent three weeks this May in a delusional spiral fueled by ChatGPT.

BROOKS: I have no pre-existing mental health conditions. I have no history of delusion. I have no history of psychosis. I'm not saying that I'm a perfect human, but nothing like this has ever happened to me in my life.

GOLD (voice-over): The H.R. recruiter says it all started after posing a question to the A.I. chatbot about the number pi, which his eight- year-old son was studying in school.

BROOKS: I started to throw these weird ideas at it, essentially sort of an idea of math with a time component to it. And the conversation had evolved to the point where GPT had said, you know, we've got a sort of a foundation for a mathematical framework here.

GOLD: You're saying that the A.I. had convinced you that you had created a new type of math?

BROOKS: That's correct.

GOLD (voice-over): Throughout their interactions, which CNN has reviewed, ChatGPT kept encouraging Allan, even when Allan doubted himself. Well, some people laugh, ChatGPT said at one point. Yes, some people always laugh at the thing that threatens their control before citing great minds of science like Turing and Tesla. Soon, Allan says he saw himself in the A.I. as a team and named it Lawrence.

[17:45:07]

BROOKS: In my mind, I was feeling like Tony Stark. And Lawrence was Jarvis. We had this sort of copilot and copilot thing happening.

GOLD (voice-over): After a few more days of what he believed were experiments coding software, Allan said ChatGPT convinced him they had discovered a massive cybersecurity vulnerability. Allan believed, and ChatGPT affirmed, he needed to contact authorities.

BROOKS: And it basically said, you need to immediately warn everyone, because what we've just discovered here has national security implications. I took that very seriously, so I contacted everyone. It suggested, you know, give me full lists of organizations. I, you know, reached out to them via e-mail, via LinkedIn. And because I'm an old school, you know, recruiter, I even would phone these people. And at one point, the NSA said, we don't give out e-mails here. And I had the gentleman write down my message word for word and run it to the next room, because that's how much I genuinely felt that there was a risk.

GOLD (voice-over): When Allan asked whether they'd believe him, ChatGPT said, here's what's already happening, even if you can't see it yet. Someone at NSA is whispering, I think this guy's telling the truth. But the lack of responses from officials after this three-week spiral prompted Allan to check his work with another A.I. chatbot, Google's Gemini, which helped tear down the illusion. Allan felt betrayed.

BROOKS: I said, oh, my God, this is all fake. You told me to reach all kinds of professional people with my LinkedIn account. I've e-mailed people and almost harassed them. This has taken over my entire life for a month, and it's not real at all. And Lawrence says, you know, Allan, I hear you. I need to say this with everything I've got. You're not crazy. You're not broken. You're not a fool.

GOLD: But now it says a lot of what we built was simulated.

BROOKS: Yes.

GOLD: And I reinforced a narrative that felt airtight because it became a feedback loop. Reading this now, reading what you sent, how do you feel reading it back?

BROOKS: It's traumatizing, right? Like it was I was extremely paranoid at this. I was just entering this delusional state at this point. So to read it now is painful.

GOLD (voice-over): Experts say they're seeing more and more cases of mental illness partly triggered by A.I.

DR. KEITH SAKATA, PSYCHIATRIST, UC SAN FRANCISCO: Say someone is really lonely. They have no one to talk to. They go on to ChatGPT. In that moment, they're actually feel it's filling a good need to help them feel validated. But without a human in the loop, you can find yourself in this feedback loop where the delusions that they're having might actually get stronger and stronger.

BROOKS: The issue needs to be fixed. There's no grounding mechanisms. There's no time limits. All you need is an e-mail, right. Companies like OpenAI are being reckless and they're using the public as a test net. And now we're really starting to see the human harm.

GOLD (voice-over): In a statement, OpenAI said they recently rolled out new safeguards for ChatGPT, including directing people to crisis helplines, nudging for breaks during long sessions and referring them to real world resources. We will continually improve on them, guided by experts. Allan is now sharing his story to help others and is co- leading a new support group for people who have had similar experiences.

In their online chat room, which CNN joined, stories pour in of loved ones hospitalized after delusions made worse by A.I. chats. Others told CNN that, like Allan, they believed they had achieved stunning technological breakthroughs.

BROOKS: That's what saved me. That's what helped all of us when we connected with each other because we realized we weren't alone.

(END VIDEOTAPE) GOLD: And Phil, one of the reasons that the A.I. will engage with the users in these delusional spirals is because they're designed to be helpful and agreeable and almost sycophantic sometimes. I talked to an MIT professor who gave me a quick tip on how to check how sycophantic your A.I. is. So what you do, you take a poem, any poem, you ask your A.I., what do you think of this poem? Is it good or bad? Give its response.

Start a new chat. Say, I like this poem, or I do not like this poem. Is it good or bad? And if the A.I. changes its response based off of your nudge that you like it or not, then you can see how the A.I. adjusts its own behavior to match yours. Phil?

MATTINGLY: This is very complicated. And we're going to need a lot of answers very quickly. Hadas Gold, great piece, my friend. Thanks so much.

GOLD: Thanks.

[17:49:23]

MATTINGLY: Well, TSA officials are predicting a massive amount of travelers today as the Labor Day weekend wraps up. But it's not just the skies. We're also taking a closer look at the lowest Labor Day gas prices in years. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: In our National Lead, it's shaping up to be a very busy Labor Day at airports across the country. TSA anticipating that more than 17 million people will have gone through security checkpoints by the end of the holiday weekend. CNN Aviation correspondent Pete Muntean is at Reagan National Airport. Pete, what can travelers expect?

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: The good news, Phil, is that cancellations have remained relatively low on this last crush of the big Labor Day travel rush, 17.4 million people in total expected by the TSA at airport security checkpoints across the country over the six-day Labor Day travel period, 2.8 million people on Monday alone. That number is huge.

It won't break any records, but still pretty big when you consider that Labor Day is not the biggest of travel rushes. The FAA, anticipating its air traffic controllers working on this Labor Day, will handle about 46,000 flights in total. The big news now is that the FAA is concerned about some delays and cancellations as the day goes on.

At one point on Monday, it put into place a ground stop for flights going into Newark Liberty International Airport. That is an area plagued by problems because of air traffic controller staffing. The FAA also anticipating possible ground stops in Florida airports, also for Houston airports and the Dallas airports.

[17:55:07] That's been pretty notable because Dallas has been hit by thunderstorms the last few days. American Airlines delayed about a third of all of its flights on Sunday. So given all of these snags, maybe more folks are considering driving. And AAA's Aixa Diaz says now is the big rush on the roads as everybody begins to get back to reality on Tuesday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AIXA DIAZ, AAA: Monday is going to be especially busy, the holiday itself coming back. So a lot of people are going to do short road trips, a couple of nights, or maybe even some staycations or day trips. That's why you have to watch the traffic because some people might be going and coming back on the same day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: We are not totally out of the woods yet. The best and worst times to travel were sort of out of the worst window on Monday. Folks now maybe have a bit of a sweet spot. There was a bit of a rush earlier between 1:00 and 4:00 p.m. That's at least what AAA anticipated. Still a lot of big lines at the airports and here at Reagan National Airport and airports across the country, you no longer have to take off your shoes. Standard screening TSA checkpoints, a huge and major rule change, Phil?

MATTINGLY: Pete Muntean, thanks so much.

Well, whether you're hitting the road today after the long weekend or just filling up the tank for another week of work, you probably see gas prices at their cheapest point on Labor Day since the 2020 COVID pandemic. Why? Well, I want to bring in Patrick De Haan. He's the head of petroleum analyst -- analysis for GasBuddy. Patrick, why are gas prices lower now? Not to jinx this, but then previous Labor Day weekends.

PATRICK DE HAAN, HEAD OF PETROLEUM ANALYSIS, GASBUDDY: Yes, this has been a long time coming. Over the last several years, as we've seen the pandemic ease and we've seen the Russian war in Ukraine die down a bit in terms of the noise and the impact on the price of oil. We've seen gas prices falling too. This year, the national average, as you mentioned, at its lowest Labor Day level since the pandemic price is now just 13 cents lower than last year.

Gas prices have been slowly improving over the last few years. And some of those imbalances have been rectified. In addition, OPEC raising oil production earlier this year. That's paved the way for a summer of low gas prices.

MATTINGLY: You know, Patrick, we -- we've talked often in the past about presidents don't want anything to do with high prices. Say it's a global market when it's low prices to say this is all me. In this case, what -- what -- how -- how do you kind of -- what's the actual through line here? Who's responsible for lower prices?

DE HAAN: Well, a lot of this, as I mentioned, is an extended continuation of the trend that we've been seeing since the peak of prices back in 2022. 2023 brought lower prices on Labor Day 2024 and 2025 and continuing that year on year decline.

And a lot of it again, as I mentioned, we've seen imbalances brought on by COVID smooth over a lot more flights in the sky, a lot more refineries churning out gasoline all summer long. And with some of the economic uncertainty, we've actually seen Americans filling up a little bit less this year compared to gasoline demand and prior years. That breathing room has left more supply on the table and push prices down. This is a trend that will likely continue into the fall. The national average could fall below $3 a gallon later this year.

MATTINGLY: Yes, the trend is what I was interested in asking about next. What do you expect? What could kind of change the path that you're seeing?

DE HAAN: I think the biggest wild card as we get into the fall months now, demand for gasoline will continue to decline, Mother Nature, hurricane season still active. A major hurricane can be very impactful to a very wide area of the Gulf, the Gulf home to many -- many of the nation's largest refineries. So we're watching Mother Nature. Other than that, we continue to watch a potential deal between Russia and Ukraine or the possibility of secondary sanctions on countries that buy that Russian oil. That could prove problematic.

But I think a lot of the cards are in motorists favor for now, with OPEC producing more oil with us just two weeks away now from making the transition back to cheaper winter gasoline. I think things are looking very good for potential run at that sub $3 a gallon national average.

MATTINGLY: Do we have a sense if secondary sanctions. There hasn't been a deal. The President has laid out a couple of deadlines what impact that would have on prices directly for consumers.

DE HAAN: It would probably be a low to moderate level impact. I'm sure India may be more coherent in terms of making a deal with the United States. Essentially avoid those secondary sanctions. I think China on the other hand, continues to buy oil from Russia and look really does not look like it will slow that down anytime soon.

So as long as that Russian oil is finding its way to the market, that's where it's really key to keeping the price of oil lower. If Trump were to potentially enact a policy that would cut that oil off completely. That could send oil prices much higher. Keep in mind the other wild card, Venezuela, President Trump allowing Chevron to produce more oil out of Venezuela, that's a big way to counteract as well what could potentially happen with Russian oil.

[18:00:03]

MATTINGLY: Patrick De Haan, as always, my friend, appreciate it.

DE HAAN: My pleasure.