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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Epstein Survivors To Trump And Congress: Release The Files; Epstein Survivor: We Are Discussing Creating Our Own List Of Abusers Who Were Part Of The "Epstein World"; Rep. Garcia: 97 Percent Of DOJ Documents Given To House Oversight Committee Were Already Made Public; Rep. Robert Garcia, (D-CA), Is Interviewed About Epstein Files; Sen. Mark Warner (D-VA), Is Interviewed About Conspiracy Theorist Laura Loomer Shut Down His Routine Meeting With Intel Officials; Amanda Knox Reflects On Enduring Public Scrutiny; 1,000 Plus Current & Former HHS Employees Demand RFK Jr. resign. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired September 03, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

-- really become the epicenter of a much broader fight over academic freedom, federal funding and campus oversight. But the judge, Judge Allison Burroughs, wrote in her decision there was no obvious link between the affected research projects that were being cut and anti- Semitism. She lists some of those. She says that it is a smokescreen for a targeted, ideologically motivated assault on the country's premier universities, Kasie.

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: All right, Betsy Klein for us with that report. Betsy, thank you very much. And thanks to our panel as well for being in The Arena today.

Don't go anywhere. "The Lead" with Jake Tapper starring right now.

[17:00:36]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Mr. President, Epstein survivors would like a minute of your time. The Lead starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is a Democrat hoax that never ends.

HALEY ROBSON, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: I cordially invite you to the Capitol to meet me in person so you can understand this is not a hoax.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Epstein Trafficking and rape survivors with strong messages as they appear on Capitol Hill today detailing what the now dead pedophile did to ruin their lives for a time and why Trump's Justice Department needs to reveal much, much more. And one of those brave survivors will join us live here in minutes.

And a menacing new show of force, what Trump is saying today about the display of strength and power from world leaders that seem to be conspiring against the west and the United States. Plus, why is an unelected, unappointed woman who even a Republican senator calls a crazy conspiracy theorist wielding so much power over the national security of the United States? I'll ask a high ranking senator just impacted by one of her actions.

Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. On Capitol Hill today, several survivors of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell's horrific crimes spoke out, some for the very first time.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARINA LACERDA, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: The only reason that I am here is because it feels like the people who matter in this country finally care about what we have to say.

ROBSON: When I got into the massage room, Jeffrey Epstein undressed and asked me to do things to him. My eyes welled up with tears and I have never been more scared in my life.

CHAUNTAE DAVIES, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: What I endured will haunt me forever. I live every day with PTSD.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Many of the survivors blame the U.S. government for doing more over the past few decades to help Jeffrey Epstein instead of his victims.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COURTNEY WILD, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: Why was Jeffrey Epstein so protected? Who is still being protected and who protected them all so the world can understand how Jeffrey was able to abuse so many of us for so long?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Excellent question. Several others pleaded with President Trump to support a bipartisan bill that the White House currently strongly opposes. The bill would call on the Justice Department to release the Full Epstein files.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANOUSKA DE GEORGIOU, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: President Trump, you have so much influence and power in this situation. Please use that influence and power to help us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Some called out President Trump for referring to this push to release all the Epstein files as a hoax.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBSON: Mr. President, Donald J. Trump, I am a registered Republican, not that matters because this is not political, however, I cordially invite you to the Capitol to meet me in person so you can understand this is not a hoax. To say that it's a hoax is just not -- please humanize us. I would like Donald J. Trump and every person in America and around the world to humanize us, to see us for who we are and to hear us for what we have to say.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: But just minutes after these brave survivors spoke out, here's what President Trump said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: So this is a Democrat hoax that never ends. I understand we've given thousands of pages of files and I know that no matter what you do, it's going to keep going. And I think it's -- I think, really, I think it's enough because I think we should talk about the greatness of our country and the success that we're having.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Just to fact check the thousands of pages of files that have been released, almost all of them have been previously released long before this issue exploded.

Speaking of explosions, also today, a huge clash behind the scenes of the House Republican Conference, Speaker Mike Johnson squaring off against Kentucky Congressman Tom Massie over Massie's push to force the Justice Department to release all information related to Epstein and Maxwell and any evidence about their human trafficking ring, including of underage girls. Speaker Johnson is pushing for an alternative resolution that backs the House Oversight Committee probe into the matter, which is largely happening behind closed doors with witnesses including Alex Acosta, the former U.S. attorney who negotiated Epstein's sweetheart plea deal back in 2007, 2008.

[17:05:06]

Not having to face questions at any sort of public hearing, Congressman Massie has a different proposal, he wants the Justice Department to release all Epstein and Maxwell related documents, including flight logs and names of possible conspirators who are individuals and organizations, civil settlements, immunity deals, internal communications, autopsy information, and much much more. Though many key members of the Trump administration, including President Trump himself and Vice President J.D. Vance and Attorney General Pam Bondi and FBI Director Kash Patel and Deputy FBI Director Dan Bongino have literally spent years talking about releasing the Epstein files, now they have the power and they are, for whatever reason, clearly impediments to that goal. A White House official said, quote, "Helping Thomas Massie and liberal Democrats with their attention seeking while the DOJ, the Justice Department, is fully supporting a more comprehensive file release effort from the Oversight Committee would be viewed as a very hostile act to the administration," unquote.

That warning to Republicans appears to be working. As of last time I checked, earlier today, 181 House lawmakers had signed this discharge petition which would force a vote on Congressman Massie's resolution demanding that the Justice Department make Epstein documents publicly available. Now, that discharge petition includes 181 names, almost all of them are Democrats, except for four Republicans last time we checked, Massie, Lauren Boebert, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Nancy Mace. One hundred eighty-one signatures is not enough, you need 218. You need a majority of the House to force this discharge petition onto the floor of the House.

So let's bring in two voices at today's news conference. Now that you're caught up, we have with us again Epstein survivor Liz Stein. Also with us, Democratic Congressman Robert Garcia of California, who is the ranking member of the Oversight Committee investigating how this Epstein saga is being handled.

And Liz, first of all, as always, thank you for being here. Thank you for your courage. I know this is not fun or easy talking about the worst possible moments of your life. Earlier today, a different Epstein survivor, Lisa Phillips, said if all of the information related to the case is not released by the Trump administration, then all of you, when this was the first time you all got together in such numbers, will create your own list of abusers. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LISA PHILLIPS, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: Us Epstein survivors have been discussing creating our own list. We know the names. Many of us were abused by them. Now together as survivors, we will confidentially compile the names we all know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: You guys have been talking about this? Tell me more about this.

LIZ STEIN, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: I think that, you know, today was the first day that we were all together, and we know bits and pieces of each other's stories, but we don't know the minutia of each other's stories. And so I think that the collective thought perhaps, is seeing if there are any common threads in our stories or any common people in our stories. And I think I want to be pretty clear that we're not looking to release a list of names to the general public. I think people don't understand the danger that could potentially put us in. But if it is a matter of justice and the government investigating this, really doing so diligently and honestly, I think that we're willing to cooperate in whatever ways we can.

TAPPER: Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene was also at today's news conference. She told CNN's Manu Raju that she spoke with President Trump about hosting survivors of Epstein and Maxwell in the Oval Office. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): I told him I'd be happy to set that up, arranging with their attorney by sharing his phone number. MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What was his reaction to that?

GREENE: I haven't gotten answer back on that. But I am continuing to encourage him that these are the people that deserve to be in the Oval Office, not any of Jeffrey Epstein's rich, powerful friends.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: If you got a chance to talk to President Trump this afternoon, what would you say to him?

STEIN: I think that what I would really ask him for would be to be completely transparent in releasing information about this. We saw last night in the documents that were released, it was a show. There was no new information. And I think that the public is getting sick and tired of these document dumps that aren't showing or telling us anything. And so, you know, if I could implore the president to do anything, I would ask him to stop politicizing this issue, because it's not a political issue. This is a crime.

[17:10:00]

It's a crime of sex trafficking. And we're getting conflated because the men in power that were involved have a lot of power. And so I think if we were looking at any other trafficking case where there are a thousand victims --

TAPPER: Yes.

STEIN: -- we would be screaming at the top of our lungs for accountability. But we're really getting sidetracked by the politicizing this issue because it's not a political issue.

TAPPER: Congressman Garcia, you and other House Oversight Democrats and Republican Congressman Massie said that 97 percent of the documents that have been released by the Justice Department either yesterday or prior were already public. Here is how House Oversight Committee Chairman James Comer of Kentucky responded about that claim on CNN earlier today. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JAMES COMER (R-KY): Well, the 3 percent that weren't public, that's 3 percent more than Joe Biden released when he was president. Look, President Trump is complying with our subpoena, with my subpoena. This is a sincere investigation. And I've told my new ranking member on the committee, Mr. Garcia from California, look, we want to make this bipartisan and this is an opportunity for the Democrats to work with the Republicans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: What's your response? Do you -- do you take him at his word that he wants to make this bipartisan? REP. ROBERT GARCIA (D-CA): Well, look, we'd love to make this bipartisan. The reality is the Department of Justice and the White House have stalled every process of this. They were the ones that committed to a full release of the files. They need to understand that Liz and so many others and their courage in speaking out mean something at this moment. And they have the power to fully release all of the files today, right now, and are choosing to not do so.

And what they have released, what they put out last night is all information that was already in the public. And I'll say one of the thing that the survivors have been telling us, which is really important, releasing the files is not just important for transparency, is important for the survivors to be able to actually see what is being said about them, what is being said about those that cause violence to them. And they themselves need that closure to and to see the files they have themselves not seen how they are mentioned in these documents. And so there -- it's important not just for transparency, but it's also important for those that have survived.

TAPPER: Yes. Liz Stein, good to see you again. Thank you for joining us as always.

STEIN: Thanks, Jake.

TAPPER: Congressman Garcia, good to see you. Thank you.

Coming up, the new calls for RFK Jr. to resign as the secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services as he faces what could be a tough day tomorrow on Capitol Hill. Plus, the president's new take on China's military parade after accusing world leaders of conspiring against the U.S. And murder mystery and media frenzy, the Amanda Knox story is back and reigniting fascination and raising new questions about Italian justice.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:16:44]

TAPPER: In our world lead one day after this jaw dropping show of military might from China, President Trump weighed in on the showy display of friendship between the leaders of China, North Korea and Russia earlier today. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I thought it was very impressive, but I understood the reason they were doing it and they were hoping I was watching and I was watching.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: On Tuesday night, President Trump asked of Chinese leader Xi Jinping, quote, "Please give my warmest regards to Vladimir Putin and Kim Jong Un as you conspire against the United States of America." CNN's Kristen Holmes is at the White House.

Kristen, Trump clearly takes issue with this new geopolitical balance and alliance.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jake, I mean, it's not lost on President Trump or the administration as a whole that the Chinese president would like this to be the new world order. And if you look at who was there in China over several days, clearly there was messages being sent to the White House and to President Trump directly. As all of this is going on, we know that India was there, meeting with China. This has been something that has been really on the rocks, the relationship between India and China, for years. It was the first time Modi had gone into the country for seven years.

But Modi is looking for help with the economy, something that President Trump himself has essentially stood in the way of India's economy growing with those 50 percent tariffs. Top of that, you have Russian President Vladimir Putin, peace talks which have likely or completely seemingly stalled when it comes to the war in Ukraine. This is all a message to the west and to President Trump. And the White House is watching it very carefully. Now it was interesting. President Trump was asked about those stalled peace talks and asked if he had a message for the Russian president.

Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I have no message to President Putin. He knows where I stand, and he'll make a decision one way or the other. Whatever his decision is, we'll either be happy about it or unhappy. And if we're unhappy about it, you'll see things happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: And again, you know, we've heard this kind of we're waiting to see what happens for quite some time. And if something doesn't happen soon, then you'll see what happens. But it's not clear what exactly is going to happen if Putin doesn't actually set up this meeting with Zelenskyy.

TAPPER: And Kristen, it's worth mentioning President Trump is still trying to secure peace deals with some of these leaders and assert dominance with his tariffs.

HOLMES: Yes, I mean, President Trump needs help from all of these countries in one way or another. While he has been, of course, threatening India, he still doesn't want to see India doing business with China. We are still global competitors with China. He has been trying to get a deal with China. This is China's way of kind of pushing the United States out of this.

So that's when it comes to tariffs and the economy. And of course, as we mentioned, Vladimir Putin trying to get that peace deal. Now, he was asked about what might happen next after he said, you know, we're going to wait and see and what action has been taken. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Would you say that putting secondary sanctions on India, the largest purchaser outside of China, they're almost equal, would you say there was no action? That cost hundreds of billions of dollars to Russia. You call that no action? And I haven't done phase two yet or phase three.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[17:20:01]

HOLMES: And Jake, obviously, we've reached out to see what phase two and three would look like.

TAPPER: All right, Kristen Holmes at the White House for us. Thanks so much.

Back to that military parade and what those leaders of China, Russia and North Korea may have actually discussed, hear what a hot mic moment picked up. Plus what North Korean workers were really doing when seen scrubbing that armchair. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: And we're back with our world lead and a closer look at the Chinese military parade showcasing leader Xi Jinping's advancements to the world's largest standing army. Ten thousand Chinese troops flanked high tech weapons systems, many seen for the first time including undersea drones, advanced fighter jets and new long range nuclear armed weapons. A production surge not seen since the U.S. mass produced weapons to win World War II. CNN's Tom Foreman is here.

[17:25:01]

And Tom, it was a lot more than just showing off some rockets. What stood out to you as these leaders walked down the red carpet together?

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This was the kind of parade that Donald Trump wanted here clearly, he said so. And even though he said he wouldn't have gone even if we're invited. Look at this moment here, this is exactly the kind of thing he's often been drawn to. This is an extraordinary picture here, Putin and Xi and Kim all line up there. That Xi's wife right here, you see she is wearing the Mao outfit, which is also very highly tied with Chinese nationalism.

In any event, these pictures of the three of them together, this is really a remarkable scene. And each one of these are people with whom Donald Trump has claimed a strong connection, a strong sort of connection with them where they would be able to deal with things and make deals. But this also led to one of the most remarkable moments happening right along here when there was a hot mic and we could hear what they were talking about. Just take a look at this really extraordinary moment as it evolved here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) XI JINPING, CHINESE PRESIDENT (through translator): In the past, we used to say that very rarely people lived past 70, but these days, at 70 years you are still a child.

VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Those who are 75, 65, they have better in a few years, with the development of biotechnology, human organs can be constantly transplanted so that people can live younger and younger, and even become immortal.

XI (through translator): The prediction is that in this century humans may live to 150 years old.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Xi Jinping there, talking about people living to be 150 years old with advances in biotechnology. But let's talk specifically now, Tom, if we can, about North Korea, North Korean leader Kim Jong Un.

FOREMAN: Yes. It's always very interesting when you get looks at him, because people forget how secretive North Korea is. In this case, this is the thing that had everybody buzzing. Not him, not the people he talked to, but this person right back here. This is Kim Jong Un's daughter.

We don't know her age. There has been debate about even her name, but her name is Kim Ju Ae is best anybody can tell. And she seems to be somewhere around maybe 13, 14 years old. That's not clear. But she has been showing up more and more in various events with her father.

And as she has showed up in these events, it has really promoted a lot of talk about the notion of whether or not he is grooming her to be the fourth in line for that family. So Kim Il-sung, Kim Jong-il, Kim Jong Un, and now Kim Ju Ae, if she were to, in fact, take over.

And one last thing we want to mention here, when he left the room after meeting with Putin, look at this, what's going on, all this wiping down the chairs and the table and everything, that is believed to be a security measure by the North Koreans to make sure that none of his DNA, nothing that can be traced to him, can be collected and analyzed as to figure out his health or anything else about him. Again, a measure of why it's so interesting when he comes outside of his country because there's so much secrecy around him. Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Tom Foreman, fascinating stuff. Thanks so much.

Coming up next, conspiracy theorist Laura Loomer getting in the way of a high ranking Democrat and his official business on the Senate Intelligence Committee. That lawmaker is going to be here next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:32:41]

TAPPER: In our Politics Lead, it's a question that so many Republicans on Capitol Hill are asking. Why does a woman whom Republican Senator Thom Tillis once called, "a crazy conspiracy theorist, who regularly utters disgusting garbage," why does she have sway over national security decisions made by President Trump? Laura Loomer, a two-time losing congressional candidate from Florida who pushed nonsense that 9/11 was an inside job and spewed racist attacks against numerous officials of color and celebrated when migrants drowned in the Mediterranean. Loomer, once considered so toxic, last year, the Trump's co-campaign manager had her kicked off the Trump plane.

But now Loomer, for whatever reason, enjoys oval office access and sway. She just had a meeting shut down between intelligence officials and the top Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee. Senator Mark Warner of Virginia, who joins us now. He's here on The Lead first to talk about this debacle.

So, Senator, you say that your -- your meeting, which was set for Friday, was supposed to be routine in nature, connecting with career intelligence officials and a core part of your job as vice chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee. What happened exactly and how did Loomer even catch wind of it?

SEN. MARK WARNER (D-VA): Well, how she caught wind of it? That's a great question, Jake. And I've done this for a dozen years. I've been chair, vice chair of the Intelligence Committee. I meet regularly with intelligence officials. And frankly, this was even in my home state of Virginia, so most of these folks are my constituents as well.

The one thing we've learned is that when Laura Loomer tweets, Pete Hegseth, Tulsi Gabbard, they jump. They do her bidding. And again, it wasn't just with me. It was like she was the person who got rid of Mike Waltz as the national security advisor. She knocked off the director of the NSA, General Haugh.

She pressured Gabbard to put out and declassify and take away security clearances from 37 senior intelligence officials. She's not elected to anything, but she is the de facto, it seems to me, secretary of defense and perhaps director of national intelligence. She may even be with Elon Musk on.

She may now be the new co-president with Donald Trump. It's pretty amazing. And I just make the point that, you know, visiting these intelligence facilities, not every member of Congress gets to do this. You've got to be on the Intelligence Committee. I've been in the leadership chair, vice chair for years.

[17:35:04]

And if I can't do my job and meet with these officials, see their newest technology, figuring out how A.I. is affecting some of our overset -- overhead facilities, you know, do we really want to say you've got to pass the Laura Loomer litmus test --

TAPPER: Yes.

WARNER: -- before you do your job? This is wacky beyond belief. And, you know, we'll see if we get any feedback from my Republican colleagues. Because if, you know, she sets the criteria, I'm sure most of them won't be able to do their jobs either. TAPPER: So there's a Biden appointee that Loomer is calling out. His name is Trey Whitworth. He's director of the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency. Loomer is saying he has bad judgment for inviting you to a, "love fest." What -- what is she talking about?

WARNER: I got no freaking idea. This Admiral Whitworth is a career military official. He rose through the ranks. He -- he was appointed by Biden, but he was the pick of the intelligence community in the military. The idea that somehow this was anything other than my routine effort to do oversight, you know, my job is to do oversight.

My job is to make sure that military dollars, intelligence dollars are well spent and to make sure that we're being protected. What I think Loomer is doing, and look, she goes particularly after uniformed officers. And we've seen this Trump administration also, you know, get rid of, you know, senior members of color, women, senior officials.

We've seen additional folks get pushed out of the Air Force recently. There does seem to be a pattern of going after, you know, uniformed officials. My fear is this is an attempt to basically try to cook the books in the intelligence community so that if there's any pushback against any Trump policies, people will either be fired or have their security clearance removed.

And they don't want congressional oversight. And again, this is kind of beyond the pale. We've never seen anything like this. It is not about me. It is about whether Congress is going to do its job. And as you know, Jake, we've already seen Congress cede a lot of the power of the purse when they allow the director of OMB to pick and choose which programs to fund, even after they're in the budget as part of the law.

If they now start saying we're going to pick and choose, particularly in classified areas, which elected officials get to do oversight, this is the path that led us to debacles like Iraq 20 years ago.

TAPPER: Democratic Senator Mark Warner of Virginia, the vice chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee. Thank you so much, sir. Appreciate your time.

WARNER: Thank you, Jake.

TAPPER: After decades of hype and media spin, Amanda Knox is finally getting to tell her story her way. She'll join us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:42:01]

TAPPER: In our Pop Culture Lead, the case of the wrongful prosecution of an American college girl, a case that captivated the world's attention, is now a new T.V. series.

In 2007, just weeks into her study abroad -- abroad program in Italy, 20-year-old Amanda Knox was wrongfully accused of murdering her roommate, Meredith Kercher. The trials, the convictions, the subsequent acquittals sparked a media frenzy and flurry of conspiracies about Knox. And now Knox is reclaiming her story. She's the executive producer behind the new limited series on Hulu, "The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE VAN PATTEN, "THE TWISTED TALE OF AMANDA KNOX" ACTOR: For 15 years, I've been defined by something that I didn't do. Many people think they know my story. But now, finally, it's my turn to tell it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: And joining us now is Amanda Knox. Amanda, it's been almost 20 years. I guess my question, as somebody who knows you a little bit now, is, is this not nerve-wracking and terrifying to do a scripted series and relive all this again? Or is it empowering and you're taking control? Or both?

AMANDA KNOX, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, "THE TWISTED TALE OF AMANDA KNOX": Well, you know, I mean, it's both. And I think the big reason why it's nerve-wracking is, of course, I'm putting myself in a position of -- of being judged once again, one that I have felt deeply in my life in really, really harsh, bad ways. But on the other side, it's not just a story about something that I didn't do, which has been how this story has been told for so long.

It's finally a story about something I did do, which is go back to Italy and confront my prosecutor. It's when it's me taking action in my own life in response to this history that I have behind me. And I'm hoping that people recognize how it's -- it's not just limited to this, like, typical true crime biopic. It's a much more personal and universal story.

TAPPER: And we have a mutual friend, Monica Lewinsky, who is an executive producer on the series with you. And you've spoken about the intense public scrutiny that both of you have faced, unfair, misogynistic, judgmental. What has it been like to have her as a partner? Because I got to believe there are maybe five or 10 people on the planet who can relate to what you're going through, and she's one of them.

KNOX: Yes, that was one of the hardest parts about coming home from prison was I naively thought that maybe I would get to go back to the life that I had before this horrible experience happened to me. And that became -- it became very quickly apparent that I was not allowed to go back to being an anonymous college student, that I was the girl accused of murder.

And I was still this idea in people's minds. I was this figure in this morality tale that people were -- were telling. And it was something that alienated me from the rest of humanity. And you're right, like, who could I turn to who would understand what that experience was like?

[17:45:09]

So when I discovered Monica Lewinsky's TED Talk and I read her writing for Vanity Fair, I immediately recognized in her not just a kindred spirit, but a kind of mentor. And so when she reached out to me and asked me if I wanted to pursue this course of telling my life and -- or telling my story in this way, I thought I couldn't think of a better partner.

TAPPER: Amanda Knox, thank you so much. The first four episodes of "The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox" are out now on Hulu. Congratulations. The show's great. I hope you feel good about it.

KNOX: I love it. And I hope you love it, too.

TAPPER: I do.

Coming up next, the strong response today when Florida's surgeon general called for an ending to all vaccine requirements in his state.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:50:09]

TAPPER: In our Health Lead, more than 1,000 current and former employees of the Department of Health and Human Services are demanding the resignation of Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. They say he is, "compromising the health of the nation."

They signed on to a letter citing a list of actions they say put Americans at risk, include -- including the recent firing of CDC Director Dr. Susan Monarez and the protest resignations of several high-level CDC employees, among other things. Let's bring in Dr. Ian Morgan. He's a postdoctoral fellow at the NIH and steward of NIH Fellows United. Dr. Morgan, do you agree with the letter that RFK Jr. is endangering the lives of Americans?

IAN MORGAN, NIH SCIENTIST: Yes, thanks, Jake. Of course, I agree with the letter. I mean, we're, like many of my colleagues, we go into work each day hoping to make that small discovery to, you know, improve the health and well-being of the American people.

And right now, it -- it's just terrible going into work each day, seeing Secretary Kennedy destroying that work and actively endangering the American people with what he's doing.

TAPPER: Can you explain, for the average American watching at home, how do the actions and policies of RFK Jr. and HHS affect them? How do they affect the -- their family doctor, who they know and trust? Why -- why is this an impact on them?

MORGAN: Sure, yes. So, for example, where I work at the NIH, I talk to the clinical fellows. And one thing that people do is they come from all across the country, when they've run out of all other hope, to the NIH Clinical Center to get care, to get care for rare cancers, rare diseases, undiagnosed diseases. And right now, the Clinical Center is on the verge of collapse because of Secretary Kennedy's actions. He's fired the staff.

He's refused to hire on staff that's essential. And what we're seeing is, if things don't change quickly, that the Clinical Center will lose its accreditation and fail completely. And that will destroy people's last hope for those diseases.

TAPPER: What do you think doctors and patients out there should be doing when it comes to recommendations from HHS and the CDC while RFK Jr. is in charge? Do they ignore them? And what are you recommending?

MORGAN: Well, I -- I'm not a medical doctor, so I can't speak to that, quite frankly. But we've seen a lot of the professional doctors, like people who were from the ACIP, who were taken out, have things like the Vaccine Integrity Project to actually, you know, give real scientifically-based advice. And so my recommendation would be to listen to the experts.

TAPPER: All right, Dr. Ian Morgan, thank you so much. Appreciate your time.

Our political experts are here because these -- these health issues are in the world of politics. One would say that politics is infecting health issues here in the United States. What do you make of all this turmoil at HHS and CDC?

MO ELLEITHEE, FORMER DNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Well, I think the doctor was right. This is going to have a real impact on people. I'm a dad. I got two kids in area schools. Those kids now, they're making it harder in our region, our area, for any kid to get the COVID vaccine, right? Just as COVID cases are starting to go back up, they're going to make it harder for me to give my kids, my wife and I, access to the COVID vaccine.

In the beginning, Secretary Kennedy, when he was going through his confirmation process, said, we're not going to -- we're -- were just want to stop mandates. They're -- now they're going past that. They're making it harder. They're making it possible for states like Florida, which just announced today, that they were going to eliminate all vaccines for school age children.

So this is going to have a very real impact on people's lives. And if you're a parent who's worried now about the access your family and your kids have to vaccines, and you're looking around for some sort of accountability, you want to talk about politics, they got a midterm coming up. And that's where they can voice that concern.

TAPPER: So RFK Jr. is going to testify before the Senate Finance Committee tomorrow. One of its members is Senator Bill Cassidy of Louisiana, whose vote was key to getting Kennedy confirmed. He's the chairman of the -- of the health committee and also is a physician. Here is Senator Cassidy when asked if he regretted that vote.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BILL CASSIDY (D-LA): You know, I don't mean to insult, but that's really nothing to do with this. This is about children's health. This is about how we protect the children of the United States of America. And there's allegations that -- that that health is being endangered. We need to presuppose that anybody's right or wrong. We got to get to the bottom of it. And it'll take radical transparency. My colleagues agree.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: He's up for reelection. And he is between a rock and a hard place on a lot of these issues, because his opposition to a lot of what Kennedy is doing is in stark contrast with his vote for Kennedy.

T.W. ARRIGHI, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Yes, I believe what he was referring to was the changes at that vaccine commission. And we haven't seen those names yet. So I'm going to reserve judgment. Look, there's two sort of ways I'm looking at RFK. First of all, he's a disruptor. So when we see that people, current and former employees are speaking out against him, that's probably a win for him within the White House.

[17:55:04]

I don't see Kennedy going anywhere. But more importantly, at HHS, I think he has been right to highlight the horrid cycle of the food that we're eating, feeding chronic disease, which is impacting us at far larger numbers than ever, and then feeding us into the hands of Big Pharma. And Big Pharma's influenced not only at the CDC, but other agencies, which he's written books about, he's had long criticisms about.

But secondly, with the CDC, there is a trust issue. And I was quite compelled by RFK's op-ed. I thought some of the things he brought up, the numbers he brought up --

TAPPER: He wrote an op-ed in "The Wall Street Journal."

ARRIGHI: In "The Wall Street Journal," yes. To -- to your point about the COVID vaccine, and how few actual medical professionals took it this time around, how few epidemiologists we have left at the CDC, the fact that there's been mission creep away from being the detective -- detectives of disease. I think those are really important questions. And asking the questions and seeing disruption, I think, are a net positive. You can't make an omelet without cracking some eggs.

ELLEITHEE: Asking the question is different, though, than revoking access at this point. And when he did that with the measles vaccine, for example, we saw cases begin to spike of a disease that had been all but eradicated, right? There are very real consequences to these eggs being broken, and it's -- it's not enough.

ARRIGHI: RFK has never advocated for banning any vaccine. Sure, there is debate over whether or not you ought to enforce it and what have you. And I'll leave that to others. I think Operation Warp Speed was great. I think vaccines historically are great.

But I do think when you dig down into the numbers, I think addressing the chronic -- chronic disease epidemic will pay dividends down the road.

TAPPER: So on the subject, because you brought this up, Mo, the subject of vaccines and politics, the surgeon general in the state of Florida today called for an end to vaccine mandates in his state. The American Medical Association says it strongly opposes this.

And the president of the Florida chapter of the American Academy of Pediatrics put out a statement warning it will, "put children in Florida public schools at higher risk for getting sick, which will have a ripple effect across our communities." But I want you to take a listen to the reaction to his announcement. Obviously, this isn't a room full of supporters of the Republican governor and his surgeon general. But take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. JOSEPH A. LADAPO, FLORIDA SURGEON GENERAL: The Florida Department of Health, in partnership with the governor, is going to be working to end all vaccine mandates in Florida law. All of them. All of them. All of them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So, I mean, you've got a standing ovation. Vaccine mandates protect sick kids that can't be vaccinated. I mean, if you are immunocompromised and you can't be vaccinated, herd immunity helps keep you well and alive. And yet in Florida, they're getting rid of, they're going to try to get rid of these vaccine mandates. So what do you think?

ARRIGHI: Yes, that gives me a bit of pause, quite frankly. As I just cited before, I think net positive vaccines, I think Operation Warp Speed was a tremendous success. So Pfizer's CEO said Donald Trump should win the Nobel Peace Prize for that effort. I think any changes to the vaccine table, and I think they're probably, it should be looked at.

And I think RFK has spoken quite eloquently about some of the hepatitis shots, some of the MMR shots at certain ages. So long as it's backed by science, I think I can get behind it. But a full-scale revoking of it all, when a lot of them have proven successful, probably is a bit too foolish.

TAPPER: One other thing, CEOs behaving badly. Today's "Wall Street Journal" revealed an anonymous tip to an internal hotline called Speak Up is what started the investigation that led to this week's dismissal of the CEO of Nestle for having an inappropriate romantic relation with a subordinate who was promoted a couple of times. This does bring to mind, although not exactly the same thing, this summer's kiss-cam moment at the Coldplay concert that brought down an astronomer CEO, Andy Byron, and the company's H.R. chief, Kristin Cabot.

Is there a lesson here? I mean, is the -- is the lesson that transparency, whether it's these hot -- internal hotlines or Coldplay kiss cams, is a good thing?

ELLEITHEE: People behaving badly is not a new phenomenon, but the fact that it can go viral very quickly is. And I, you know, and I think for a lot of people, they're realizing that this new digital age, for all of its good and all of its bad, creates a level of transparency. You just can't escape the way you used to be able to. ELLEITHEE: No question about it. Nothing the internet loves more than a juicy cheating scandal where someone's a victim and someone takes a fall, especially if they're rich.

TAPPER: All right. Thanks to both of you. Really appreciate it.

And welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. This hour, a $200 billion ticking time bomb. It's attached to Trump's tariffs as the President prepares to take his tariff case to the U.S. Supreme Court. Experts say if the White House loses, the U.S. government would have to pay tens of billions of dollars in refunds to companies that paid that hidden trade tax.

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Plus, a powerful and emotional day on Capitol --