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The Lead with Jake Tapper

RFK Jr. Rejects Criticism and Health Data in Fiery Hearing; DOJ Requests Access to Missouri's 2020 Voting Equipment; White House Says, First Event in Newly Renovated Rose Garden Moves Inside Due to Rain. Source: Trump To Sign Executive Order Renaming Defense Department As The Department Of War; NFL Season Kicks Off Tonight With Eagles- Cowboys Game. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired September 04, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to the lead on Jake Tapper.

[18:00:00]

This hour, it was not just Democrats piling on Health and Human Services Secretary RFK Jr. today, a number of Republican senators also with some tough questions for RFK about his false claims about vaccines and massive layoffs at the government's healthcare experts. I'm going to speak to one of the senators who questioned Kennedy today in just moments.

Plus, President Trump is hosting a slew of tech executives for dinner at the White House tonight. The list includes Mark Zuckerberg and Tim Cook and Bill Gates. Elon Musk says he's not going. Why is the former first buddy skipping out on the festivities.

And The Lead is taking a field trip for an up close look at some of the exhibits at the Smithsonian Museum that President Trump wants changed or removed. What do those exhibits really show? Well, we're going to bring you along our field trip to find out.

Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.

The Lead tonight, Health and Human Services Secretary RFK Jr. undergoing a bipartisan beating during a hearing today, senators pressing Kennedy on his stance on vaccines, his overall of public health policies and his questionable firing of the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. JOHN BARRASSO (R-WY): In your confirmation hearings, you promised to uphold the highest standards for vaccines. Since then, I've grown deeply concerned. The public has seen measles outbreaks leadership in the National Institute of Health questioning the use of mRNA vaccines, the recently confirmed director of Centers for Disease Control and Prevention fired. Americans don't know who to rely on.

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): You just changed the classification of the COVID vaccine. ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., HHS SECRETARY: I'm not taking them away from people, Senator.

WARREN: It takes it away if you can't get it from your pharmacist.

KENNEDY: Well, most Americans are going to be able to get it from their pharmacy for free. Most Americans will be able to get it from their pharmacy for it.

WARREN: No, the question is everyone who wants it. That was your promise.

KENNEDY: No, I never promised that I was going to recommend products with which there is no indication.

SEN. MARK WARNER (D-VA): You don't have any idea how many Americans died from COVID?

KENNEDY: I don't think anybody knows that because the -- there was so much data chaos coming out of the CDC, and there was --

(CROSSTALKS)

WARNER: You don't know the answer of how many Americans died from COVID? This is the Secretary of Health and Human Services.

SEN. MARIA CANTWELL (D-WA): And, sir, you're a charlatan. That's what you are. You're the ones who can conflate chronic disease with the need for vaccines.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: I'm going to talk to the senator who called RFK Jr. a charlatan in just a moment.

But, first, let's go straight to CNN's Manu Raju on Capitol Hill. Manu, what are lawmakers saying after this heated hearing?

MANU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, a lot of Republicans, Jake, simply will not offer any support for RFK Jr. at this moment. In fact, Republicans who voted just earlier this year won't say if they even have confidence in him continuing on in this very important public health role, including Senate Majority Leader John Thune, who I caught up with this afternoon. I asked him, do you have confidence in RFK Jr. as Health and Human Services secretary? He said, it's not exactly what I think. It's what the president ultimately to whom he answers. So, the president has confidence.

And then the others, including Senator Thom Tillis, I asked him if he regretted his vote. He said, not yet. He said, I want specific answers to management decisions. If you say, scientists lied, then give me the science to refute it and demonstrate it. He went on to say, I mean words matter. And he was raising concerns about some of those words too, said some of the rhetoric coming out of HHS was, quote, dangerous and could become very deadly to look people who are, don't have access to quality information about vaccines.

And then there's Bill Cassidy, another medical doctor, someone who chairs a key health committee and provided that pivotal vote to confirm RFK Jr. He would not say if you regretted that vote, and he also would not say if he had confidence, Jake. He just simply referred to -- he said, I'll let my exchange today speak for itself. And he was referring to that exchange that was rather heated when he was pushing -- pressed Kennedy about rolling back the COVID vaccine and the efforts to do just that. That went back and forth.

But he would not say one way or the other, Jake, if he has confidence or if regrets the vote. But it just shows you the unease that Kennedy and his actions have caused Republicans who just supported his nomination a few months ago.

TAPPER: So, Manu, as you know, RFK Jr. made some very strong and rather questionable assertions about the ousted CDC director, Dr. Susan Monarez. Is the Senate planning on calling her in to testify or any of the top CDC officials who resigned in protest?

RAJU: You know, it's a bit unclear exactly the next steps of this ongoing oversight. It's unclear if they're going to do a full-fledged investigation. Of course, Republicans lead the Senate. They would have to decide to move in that direction.

I did ask Bill Cassidy whether or not he plans to investigate everything that happened in the CDC and whether to he plans -- how he plans to move ahead here.

[18:05:05]

He simply said they would provide oversight about what happened. So, it's unclear if Monarez or those CDC officials will come testify. But, undoubtedly, Jake, the pressure's going to build from Democrats in particular who want to see them come testify in a public setting about everything that happened here, Jake.

TAPPER: And, Manu, just to break out my Senate to -- English to Senate dictionary here, when you ask the Senate majority leader, do you have confidence in RFK Jr., and he says, it doesn't matter what I think, it's what the president thinks, that seems to me like that's a no.

TAPPER: Yes. That's one interpretation of it, Jake. He didn't want to say he didn't have confidence there, but he could have easily said, yes, I do.

TAPPER: Manu Raju on Capitol Hill, thanks so much.

Let's bring in Democratic Senator Maria Cantwell of Washington State. Senator, thanks so much for being here.

So, you called HHS Secretary RFK Jr. a charlatan, because you said he is conflating issues and trying to confuse people instead of presenting accurate information. Do you think that he is purposefully trying to muddy the waters on vaccines and other medical necessities so that people lose confidence in medical professionals? I mean, like a charlatan is a strong charge. I'm not saying I disagree with it, but do you think that's his goal?

CANTWELL: I don't know if it's his goal, but that's exactly what he's doing. I mean, when you look up the definition online, it doesn't say you decided to purpose, oh, yes, maybe you're doing it for personal gain, but somebody who misinforms people. And, obviously, he's misinforming people and he is misinforming people even about the first Trump administration's Warp Speed success in getting a vaccine to the marketplace. Since Seattle was the case of the first COVID cases in the United States of America, I followed this very closely, and the fact that we were able to get a vaccine out there so quickly did save millions of lives.

He's refuting that, ignoring it and then saying, I don't want to invest in this continued science. And so that is why I think you had a response, not just from me, but to Republican doctors who were saying, you are throwing cold water on hard evidence science on vaccines. They may not have said those words, but that is the implication of what both Cassidy and Barrasso said today.

TAPPER: Yes. And I think if you put truth serum in their arms and also maybe Thom Tillis and John Thune, they would say that they regret voting for him. But as of now, not one of them has said so publicly. What do they say privately? You don't have to name names, but, I mean, are Republicans saying, wow, that was a mistake, we shouldn't have confirmed? What are they saying?

CANTWELL: I'm not going to disclose my private conversations.

TAPPER: Well, you don't give me names, but you can give me general ideas from Republican senators.

CANTWELL: Look, I'm actually surprised that today that both those senators were so strong in their advocacy, and of --

TAPPER: Advocacy for vaccines?

CANTWELL: For vaccines, for a hundred years of history, for the craziness that he's instilling into the measles, you know, discussion, putting families at risk. They literally went down, Senator Barrasso, specifically, a litany of things.

So, when you go back to the confirmation hearing, he basically said, Kennedy, Secretary Kennedy, I'm going to be the guy for science, I'm going to be for the gold standard. And now we've seen actions that say you're not for the gold standard. You are not for upholding a hundred- plus years of vaccination history and minimizing the effects to individuals. You are basically throwing this whole thing open and leaving us as a nation, maybe playing second fiddle. Just let's pretend even in a military perspective that somebody does want to inflict the United States with an influenza or a harm. And what are we going to do? Call up Europe or call up some other country and say, hey, what is your vaccination that could help the United States of America, just because he doesn't want to make this investment? TAPPER: Yes, no, I agree. I mean, I also think there's 20 years of him spouting non-facts, lies about vaccines and such that would lead anybody to know that when he was testifying that he was not telling the truth.

The governor of your home state, Washington State, along with Oregon and California, so a West Coast sweep there, you're now forming the West Coast Health Alliance as a way to coordinate public health guidelines separate from the CDC. Do you support them doing that?

CANTWELL: Yes. We have to have a strong voice. And if we're not going to get that from the CDC, although I applaud the individuals who've tried to stand up and say this is what this should look like. But when COVID hit, as I mentioned, and we were the first place --

TAPPER: Yes, I remember that nursing home in.

CANTWELL: Yes, in that Kirkland Nursing home.

TAPPER: Yes.

CANTWELL: Guess who we depended on, first and foremost? The University of Washington. We had to get the rules changed actually, so that the University of Washington didn't have to send every case down to the CDC and then find out the results and send it back. We all had to adopt, adapt, and move quickly, and that's what we did.

So, in this instance now, and the University of Washington is probably one of the highest NIH recipients in the country, and so they do know a lot about health and the whole -- I think the whole West Coast has a lot of institutions.

[18:10:06]

And if they want to speak to what science really represents, then, yes, I think people are going to listen to that science information because it's not being provided through Secretary Kennedy.

TAPPER: Are you worried at all about repercussions from the Trump administration pulling NIH funding from UDub, the idea that maybe there'll be some sort of punishment?

CANTWELL: I think what the president's choices are now, he can change course. He could direct Secretary Kennedy to restore the $550 million that should go to the next mRNA vaccination program. He could tell him to restore that. He could discuss with my colleagues, even the Republicans, the ones that are now vocally saying they have concerns about this lack of science approach to the healthcare delivery system and listen to what their suggestions are. He has options.

But pretending like this secretary is delivering on science when he can't even say that your accomplishments in the first Trump administration, when your own surgeon general said it saved 2 million lives, and you can't even confirm that, you can't even praise that effort. I think it was a sad day for his estimates about what science has done for our nation. TAPPER: It's so odd because, and I said it at the time, Operation Warp Speed was one of the greatest achievements in American medical history, period. President Trump gets the credit for that. Biden gets the credit for putting the shots in the arms. And you have a Health and Human Services secretary who has literally called it falsely the deadliest vaccine in history. I just -- it doesn't make any sense to me.

CANTWELL: Well, Jake, maybe you should go back and do a little bit of history revision on that and people -- so people understand. But it's not like we just pulled something off the shelf. We had to make a scientific discovery to make this happen as people were affected and dying.

And so the fact that that scientific achievement was made, the question is, why would you want to stop? And I think, you know, Bill Gates is great on this subject because he's done so much internationally with the Gates Foundation. But you got to be ready for the next one.

TAPPER: Yes.

CANTWELL: You got to be ready for -- so you can't just rest on your laurels. And that's what he's taking away. He's taking away the apparatus to do the work to be prepared for the next flu, major flu outbreak, the next major -- you know, something that could happen internationally. And why should we do that? Why should we disarm? Are we going to call Europe up and ask them for help? Is that what we're going to do, because we didn't make this investment?

TAPPER: Yes. Oh, I hear you. Democratic Senator Maria Cantwell of Washington State, thanks so much, good to see you.

The Trump administration is demanding information about voters, including partial Social Security numbers from dozens of states. Coming up next, I'm going to talk to a Republican elections official who is rejecting that request.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:15:00]

TAPPER: In our Politics Lead, President Trump's Justice Department asked two Missouri counties for access to their voting equipment used in the 2020 election. That equipment was made by Dominion Voting Systems, which has been a frequent target of wildly false conspiracy theories claiming Trump actually won in 2020, and, you know, that Dominion machines then changed the votes. All that nonsense coming out of Fox resulted in a $787.5 million settlement to Dominion because of all the lies.

Anyway, the news today coming just days after CNN learned that the White House has stepped up efforts to obtain personal information about tens of millions of voters across the country, including sensitive data, such as partial Social Security numbers. Joining us down to discuss is Pennsylvania's top election official, the secretary of the Commonwealth, Al Schmidt, who we should note as a Republican. Mr. Secretary, you rejected this request from the Trump DOJ in instead of offering to give DOJ officials access to the state's voter export. What is the voter export and why are you offering that instead?

AL SCHMIDT, PENNSYLVANIA SECRETARY OF THE COMMONWEALTH: Well, there really wasn't much of a decision to make our laws in Pennsylvania and our Constitution in Pennsylvania prevent us from sharing voters personal information, like Social Security numbers and like driver's license numbers. So, we very respectfully declined the request from the Department of Justice to provide the personal information of 8.8 million registered voters in Pennsylvania.

TAPPER: I'm not sure that the Justice Department or President Trump are familiar with the fact that in this country states run their elections, not the federal government. Have you heard back from the Justice Department about your offer?

SCHMIDT: We have not yet heard back. I expect we will. But I really want to stress this is not a partisan issue. This is a question of our Constitution, entrusting states to run elections, federal or non- federal, in our country. And I don't think you're going to see much of a difference between red states and blue states as has been reported from South Carolina to Utah. This isn't just Maine and California here. This is a question of states protecting their voter's information as they're required to by law.

TAPPER: Why do you think the Justice Department wanted this sensitive information about the voters of the great Commonwealth of Pennsylvania?

SCHMIDT: I don't know. But what I do know is that it seems to be a somewhat unprecedented attempt to consolidate election administration at the federal level, which is concerning. And one thing that I think Pennsylvanian should be very encouraged by is that Governor Shapiro has made clear that nothing and no one are going to, in any way, interfere with election integrity in Pennsylvania.

TAPPER: If the Justice Department asked Pennsylvania county clerks for access to their voting equipment, as they did with two counties in Missouri, I assume they would ask you what they should do for guidance. What would you tell them to do?

SCHMIDT: Well, we've had issues in Pennsylvania, as you've reported in other in other jurisdictions, where third parties have sought access to election systems.

[18:20:09]

Every voter in Pennsylvania votes using a paper ballot. Whether it's a hand-marked paper ballot or whether it's a ballot marking device, we have a voter verifiable paper ballot record of every vote that's cast that's used in two audits after every election. And elections in Pennsylvania have never been more free, fair, safe, and secure than they are now.

TAPPER: The secretary of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, Al Schmidt, thank you so much. Good to see you again, sir.

SCHMIDT: Likewise, top tech leaders are heading to the White House this evening. Elon Musk will not be there. We'll tell you his reason why, and we'll also tell you who's attending. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our Tech Lead, it's raining on President Trump's parade, or rather the debut event and his newly renovated Rose Garden.

[18:25:03]

Trump's dinner for tech leaders has been moved inside due to bad weather here in Washington, D.C. That's too bad. The dinner is a bit of a tech bro reunion. Some were also at Trump's inauguration in January.

CNN's Kaitlan Collins and is here. And, Kaitlan, we should note the tech bro of bros is not going to be there.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: But he was invited. Elon Musk is who you are referring to for those who aren't paying attention.

It is notable that he was even invited though. He wrote today that he had been invited. But my understanding is this was kind of put together at the last minute. It was because the first lady, Melania Trump, posted an A.I. event at the White House earlier. That's why so many of these leaders are in town. Elon Musk says he's not coming, but he is sending a representative.

But you're going to basically see everyone there who is there at the White House today, but also who was in attendance at Trump's inauguration, who is sitting around him. The head of Google, Meta, Mark Zuckerberg, all of those figures are going to be at the White House tonight. We may actually see them because Trump often has a fondness for calling the press and when he is hosting a group of tech leaders like this one.

One interesting name that I just heard that is going is Jared Isaacman. And he is the tech billionaire who had actually been nominated to run NASA. He was a huge ally of Elon Musk.

TAPPER: Yes. And then it turned out he had like given donations to Democrats in the past.

COLLINS: And Trump pulled his nomination, citing that even though we had been told that he had disclosed that. So, the White House actually was aware of it whenever they were nominating him because he knew it would come up at his confirmation hearing. They pulled it though still regardless. But he is going to be there tonight, which I thought was interesting, so Elon Musk on the list and Jared Isaacman as well. TAPPER: Very interesting. And we should note there's this, the Rose Gardens of it all is also interesting. The Rose Garden is really not --

COLLINS: The rose patio?

TAPPER: Yes, the rose patio. This renovation, there it is, look right there, I mean, that's not what it used to be, a lawn there. I think Jackie O set that up and now it's completely different.

This renovation's a big deal to Trump. I got to imagine he's a little bummed that they had to move it inside.

COLLINS: Well, and also remember, Melania Trump did a huge undertaking of renovating the Rose Garden when he was in office the last time. There were serious issues from all the events that they hosted out there with irrigation and whatnot. She put a lot of effort into it, but obviously Trump has transformed it. It looks a lot like the Mar-a-Lago patio. For people who have not been, this is what it looks like.

And I had been told a few weeks ago that the president wanted to host a huge event out there when it was a beautiful sunny day here in Washington. Obviously, they thought that would be today, but it rained here so they're changing it. But the president has been getting good use out of the patio.

One thing he does at Mar-a-Lago, we know, when he was out of office is he has this iPad and he'll basically play his favorite songs on it very loud. He controls the volume --

TAPPER: YMCA.

COLLINS: -- and the playlist, everything you hear at his rallies.

TAPPER: Right, you can't always get what you want. They put speakers out on the Rose Garden, so he's been doing that in the last few days. When we're at the White House, you can hear the music from where we do our live shots in front of the White House. You can hear it being played out in the Rose Garden. But, obviously, they will not have the opportunity to do so tonight.

TAPPER: I thought I heard some poison in the background --

COLLINS: From over here.

TAPPER: -- when we were doing a live shot the other day.

COLLINS: Some Les Mis.

TAPPER: Yes, but he always -- yes, he loves the Les Mis.

Anyway, Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much, always good to see you.

Don't miss Kaitlan on her show, The Source with Kaitlan Collins. That's tonight and every weeknight at 9:00 Eastern only here on CNN. We visited a Smithsonian Museum to look at some of the specific exhibits that the Trump White House deems too woke. We're going to show you those exhibits from our field trip, and we're going to talk to the museum's former director to weigh in on what we found.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:00]

TAPPER: In our National Lead, Smithsonian Secretary Lonnie Bunch has now responded to President Trump's demands for a complete review of all Smithsonian Museum exhibits, according to reports from The New York Times and The Washington Post. Bunch reportedly wrote to staff that he has assembled a small internal team to handle the White House request, but said he told Trump in person, quote, our independence is paramount, unquote.

Trump has targeted the Smithsonian saying, quote, everything discussed is how horrible our country is, how bad slavery was, and how unaccomplished the downtrodden have been, nothing about success, unquote.

Is that an accurate description of the Smithsonian? Well turn in your permission slips. We're going to take you on a field trip to find out.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: We're here at the Smithsonian today to go in and see exactly what the White House is talking about.

So, this exhibit is about Title IX and girls and women's sports. It starts with Naomi Osaka, the tennis star, and Sam Mewis, the soccer star, and then it turns to Leo Baker, the skateboarder, and it says, quotes, Baker who identifies as trans, non-binary, decided not to compete, and Team USA lost a potential medal winner, quote, Baker refused to conform to a gender they did not identify with, and the Title IX exhibit turns into trans rights or human rights.

So, this exhibit is called the Electric Dr. Franklin, and the White House issue is not that Benjamin Franklin is noted here, but that there are so many mentions of Franklin enslaved people, perhaps as many as seven. And there's just such an emphasis, the White House says, on the enslaved individuals, nothing here. But here it says, missing from this image of the people whose labor freed, Franklin to conduct his research. The women indentured servants and enslaved people who maintain his household assisted him or made or operated equipment.

We should note that the Smithsonian has literally thousands of exhibits, and most of them, there is absolutely nothing controversial about.

We're here in the Hall of the American people. And we're not exactly sure what the White House issue is with this exhibit. It is a Statue of Liberty replica except with an agricultural worker holding a tomato. This is from a protest for higher wages from 25 years ago by the Immokalee people, which are the Seminoles.

So, this is a big exhibit about democracy in America. And the Trump administration has issue with two parts of this. One is this assertion that some individuals, some voting places changed voter registration requirements and Election Day rules and attempts to minimize the political power of newly enfranchised groups by stating that as a fact and not an analysis or interpretation.

[18:35:05]

The Trump White House is saying that this is a leftist narrative.

This exhibit on demonstrations also aroused the ire of the White House because they say these historical representations of protests passed are only leftist causes. They certainly are mostly, but they're not only. I mean, there's give me liberty or give me debt and forced busing is a no-no, and secure our borders now and stop abortion now. We just saw demonstrations of a Klan rally in that television as well as a gun rights rally, so not completely accurate, their complaint.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: As the electric doctor, Ben Franklin, himself once wrote, historians relate not so much what is done, as what they would have believed. Out of thousands of Smithsonian exhibits and programs, some do seem indeed presented with perhaps a more left-leaning framing, and historians should continue evaluating and debating how to tell the stories of our past as fairly as possible.

Let's begin that process right now. Joining us now as Brent Glass, who was a director of the Smithsonian National Museum of American History from 2002 to 2011. Thanks so much for being here.

Let's start with the electric, Dr. Franklin. So, we see signs in here. We see information about their labor help to build his fortune, talking about the slaves that Ben Franklin had. And the White House says it's just too much emphasis on Franklin's owning of slaves, not enough on Franklin. What do you think?

BRENT GLASS, FORMER DIRECTOR, SMITHSONIAN'S NATIONAL MUSEUM OF AMERICAN HISTORY: Well, I think that the independence of the Smithsonian is most important and I think this internal review that you just referenced will look at all the exhibits within the museum. And if more research is needed or a correction is needed, that will come out.

TAPPER: Well, I don't think anyone's saying that what they have here is incorrect. I think it's a question of whether or not it needs to be -- this is the Trump view, not -- I don't want anyone to think that this is my view. The idea is like, how many times do you need to mention that Ben Franklin had slaves in this exhibit about Ben Franklin. I mean, I think that's their point.

GLASS: Right. And you want to know what I think about this exhibit?

TAPPER: Yes. GLASS: I think that the need to inform the public is really important and keep them informed, and the public trusts the museum. That's an important part of all this. They trust what they see at the Smithsonian and the Smithsonian trusts the public. And I think that exchange of information is really what's most important. I have not done the research on --

TAPPER: On this specific one, yes.

GLASS: That a curator has done, or on the others that you've referenced. These are exhibits that have recently been installed.

TAPPER: Right. You left in 2011.

GLASS: Right. But I can talk about some of the exhibits. Well, for example, the political signage.

TAPPER: Yes.

GLASS: Exhibits are something that we regularly -- when there was a protest or a march on the National Mall, our curators went out and collected, as you pointed out, from all different points of view. And I think that's a really important element. When people come to the American History Museum to learn about democracy, one of the ways they learn about it is the participation of everyday people on issues that they care about.

TAPPER: The White House had said that all the signs in this exhibit were from the left, and that isn't true.

GLASS: Right.

TAPPER: As we pointed out just right here, you can see one about somebody concerned with the debt, which tends to be a conservative issue.

GLASS: Right.

TAPPER: It is true that most -- that a majority of them were from the left. On the other hand, I don't even know if the protest movement in this country has generally been from the left. I don't know.

GLASS: Well, every year there was the annual Roe v. Wade march in January.

TAPPER: Right.

GLASS: And there were always signs, and I believe you showed one of the signs about --

TAPPER: There was an anti-abortion sign.

GLASS: An anti-abortion sign.

So, I think that the curators are very conscious of including the story of America from many points of view. TAPPER: Yes. So, this one was an exhibit on Title IX, which is girls and women in sports, and about a third of it was about a trans individual in sports. And it ends with this, and I guess the Trump's issue -- the Trump White House's issue was this should be just entirely about girls and women in sports and also that this wasn't about the controversy or the disagreement about trans women in sports, et cetera. It was just presenting one political narrative.

GLASS: Again, I think that the work and the deep research that the Smithsonian does on all these subjects needs to be respected and they need to be independent.

TAPPER: Well, let me just ask you as -- because I was a history major in college, which maybe doesn't mean much, but like I don't think it's like a secret that a lot of academics lean to the left.

[18:40:05]

It seems that way. And is it possible that there is some correction that could be done for that, just for a more universal audience?

GLASS: I think so. But, you know, I was a graduate student in history and I think we learned to think critically. I don't think that means thinking from the left or right. But very often, people will say, well, if you're thinking critically about Benjamin Franklin, that must be a left wing ideology. And I don't subscribe to that at all.

TAPPER: No, neither do I.

GLASS: But I think that when we select an exhibition topic, for example, just going back to my time on the 50th anniversary of the polio vaccine, we did an exhibit about Dr. Salk and about the discovery of polio, the polio vaccine. It was an exhibit many people thought, who will be interested in that? And, in fact, there was tremendous interest in it.

I'll just give you more example because today is the day that Joseph McNeil died. Now, might not mean anything, but he was one of the Greensboro Four. And we had the Woolworth's lunch counter at the American History Museum. And on the 50th anniversary of that event, we had three of the surviving Greensboro Four members, the Greensboro Four come to a program at the Smithsonian. And it's telling those stories over and over again that I think is the most valuable contribution.

TAPPER: And it shows the striving and how this country continues to strive to be what we set out to be.

Brent Glass, thank you so much. It's great to have you here.

Some breaking news just in on Trump's plans to rename a major cabinet agency, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:45:35] JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: And we're back with breaking news.

There are new details on the president's plans to rename the Department of Defense. Let's get right to CNN's Kristen Holmes at the White House.

Kristen, what would the new name be?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, it's not surprising. President Trump is going to sign an executive order tomorrow, renaming the Department of Defense the Department of War. Now, just to be clear, this is actually a reverting to the original namesake. The Department of War was established by President George Washington when he was creating the Army and then later changed under a military reorganization under Truman in 1949.

Both President Trump and the Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth have hinted that they wanted to do this name change. Now, tomorrow, President Trump will make it official when he signs that executive order.

TAPPER: All right. Kristen Holmes, thanks so much.

Back with me is the panel, David Axelrod joining us.

It's interesting this this comes as all these national guard troops are being deployed to major cities, having nothing to do with war, theoretically.

DAVID AXELROD, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. No. We have an active military now, and they're landing in American cities.

Listen, I -- we were just talking about this before we came out here. I think the president is really intent on turning the clock back to the 19th century, right? So the Department of War and tariffs and spheres of influence, where countries just grabbed their neighbors and gobble up their territory, and we do away with the civil service and so on, you know?

I mean, but I think he likes the sound of it as much as he likes military parades. The whole militarism thing is, he thinks is a good reality show.

TAPPER: Yeah. And he -- I mean, he is a big fan of William McKinley.

JONAH GOLDBERG, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah. Well, who isn't really. I mean, the one place where the 19th century thing kind of breaks down a little bit is like in the 19th century, they actually took the posse comitatus law pretty seriously, and about the idea of deploying troops on American cities. Was kind of frowned upon, I will say. I -- as I was saying in the last hour, a lot of this has more to do with appearances he wants. It's like changing, changing the name of the Department of Defense, the Department of War sounds really macho and costs almost nothing, right?

TAPPER: Well, it probably will cost millions of dollars. GOLDBERG: But politically, you know, it's just -- it's easy, right?

And I think there's a lot of these things that Trump -- what makes it difficult is Trump definitely wants to sound like a dictator and seem like a dictator, but he actually falls short often from actually crossing the lines like he's not portrayed the Supreme Court yet. His flag burning amendment thing was actually a nothingburger if he actually read the text.

But he kind of counts that his biggest fans and his biggest foes will take the bait and take him at his word. And that creates a whole politics that are to his advantage.

TAPPER: So something I want to ask you about, Ashley. According to a Justice Department official, the leadership of the Justice Department is considering right now after the shooting in Minnesota, if they have the authority to, quote, declare that people who are transgender are mentally ill and can lose their Second Amendment rights to possess firearms, unquote. I find that flabbergasting on several different levels, including the fact that, that is clearly a violation of the Second Amendment.

ASHLEY ETIENNE, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS: Well, I mean, to add to that, I mean, it's more flabbergasting, given the fact that the large majority of the people who commit mass murders are white males. So, the question is, should we take guns from those individuals as well? If were really trying to get to the root of the problem?

But here's what I think this is all about. It's just additional red meat for his particular base to distract from the fact that that his economic agenda is failing, that the tariffs are raising prices, that inflation is up, that there's now more people seeking jobs and there are jobs available.

So, for me, that's what this gets back to. It's no different than any of these other issues that were -- right.

AXELROD: I think you're right. I mean, you say you're flabbergasted. He wants you to be flabbergasted, and he wants Democrats to react sort of in Pavlovian fashion. Take this very seriously. It's -- you know, he's targeting transgender people. They're -- he's learned that there's currency, cultural currency in targeting them. But so -- it has to be seen through that lens.

TAPPER: Sure.

AXELROD: The president wants these fights because on the things that he actually got elected on, particularly the economy, it's not going very well right now.

[18:50:03]

GOLDBERG: There's also an aspect to it. I mean, this is not the best example of it, but like if you told somebody from the NRA back in the before times that the federal government could just simply declare a class of people -- forget transgender, any class. TAPPER: Manic depressive.

GOLDBERG: Yeah. People diagnosed with PTSD, just any, just random category of people that they can have preemptively their Second Amendment rights taken away, the NRA would lose its mind.

TAPPER: The old -- the old --

GOLDBERG: The old NRA would lose their mind.

TAPPER: Thirty years ago.

GOLDBERG: And part of one of the things Trump likes to do is see how much he can force the various sort of ideological constituencies of the right to take one in the neck and to --

AXELROD: Surrender their --

GOLDBERG: Surrender and say, well, because Trump wants it, it's okay. Like RFK.

TAPPER: And we should just note, "USA Today" recently quoted a researcher who had looked at more than 1,000 mass casualty events with firearms and found that, quote, you can count on less than one hand how many of those were perpetrated by a transgender individual? This isn't based on any data. This isn't based on any research. This is just based on cruelty.

ETIENNE: Well, that -- but then in addition to that, I think it's a little of what Axelrod was saying. Which is that box in a box in the Democratic Party in an incredible way, because he understood -- I think Trump understands that this is a tension point within the Democratic Party. But then I think he also understands that this was critical and key to him actually winning this last election. And that is just really a divide within our party on where we should -- where we stand on this issue of transgender rights. So, I think he's also using it to create this wedge and further this wedge within the Democratic Party.

TAPPER: So "CBS Sunday Morning" is out with a preview clip of their interview with Supreme Court Justice Amy Coney Barrett, who is President Trump's most recent Supreme Court appointment. Here is what Justice Barrett had to say about the court reversing decisions about, for instance, same sex marriage, which has been hypothesized that maybe they're going to try to take away legal same sex marriage. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NORAH O'DONNELL, CBS HOST: You wrote in the book, the court has held that the rights to marry, engage in sexual intimacy, use birth control and raise children are fundamental, but the rights to do business, commit suicide and obtain abortion are not.

AMY CONEY BARRETT, U.S. SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: Right. I'm describing the doctrine. I want Americans to understand the law and that it's not just an opinion poll about whether the Supreme Court thinks something is good, or whether the Supreme Court thinks something is bad. You know what the court is trying to do is see what the American people have decided.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So Hillary Clinton has suggested that the court would send same sex marriage back to the states, as they did with abortion, if they could. And there is certainly that Justice Thomas footnote that suggests that maybe it would be up for discussion. What do you think?

AXELROD: Well, no one joined him in that footnote. Look, I think this -- this is a time when its hard to discern exactly where the courts going to land. But I -- it's good fodder, though, and I think it's a fear that is justifiable enough. And it will -- it will excite and inflame a lot of people in this country.

TAPPER: What do you think?

GOLDBERG: I don't think they have the votes. I mean, flat out, I don't think the votes, the reliance interests on gay marriage, I don't think they're there. I don't think Kavanaugh has a taste for it. I don't think Amy Coney Barrett has a taste for it.

AXELROD: No one joined Thomas.

ETIENNE: But here's the thing -- I mean, I wouldn't put anything past the Supreme Court. I mean, everything's up for grabs. I mean, affirmative action, Roe v. Wade. So, you know, they've sort of plotted out -- plotted this thing out. So, I can imagine that this could be on the chopping block.

TAPPER: One and all, thank you so much. Good to see you all.

The NFL season kicks off tonight. And all I got to say is "Go Birds". We're headed to the sidelines in Philly, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:57:41]

TAPPER: In sports lead, the NFL returns tonight. The reigning Super Bowl champions, my beloved Philadelphia Eagles, are going to take on that other team from Dallas at Lincoln Financial Field.

CNN's Coy Wire, a nine-year NFL veteran, is on the field at the Linc.

Coy, I just had to Google how many teams have won back-to-back Super Bowl. The answer is nine. Youve been speaking with fans before kickoff tonight. How excited are my Philadelphia brethren?

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Oh, they are just bubbling over with excitement. This is a new season, Jake. New hope. Some things never change.

We're out here right now. You got Jalen Carter, Jordan Davis, your boy Saquon Barkley is out there, catching passes getting all lathered up. And these players, Jake, let me tell you, they're nervous. I played in big games, NFL playoffs.

And no matter how much you want to be calm, use your brain training techniques. Smell the flowers, cool the soup. They didn't sleep much last night. Their hearts are racing. It's almost game time.

Another thing that hasn't changed, Jake, and that a lot of these Philadelphia fans are upset about is the Dallas Cowboys keep calling themselves America's team. Well, I went around and asked some of these Philadelphia fans, shouldn't it be Philly who is America's team? Birthplace of America? All that, defending Super Bowl champions? Maybe they should be. They're like the Philly cheesesteak of teams. A little messy, little greasy, but authentic with layers. It's time to get rowdy.

My parents refused to wear my jersey when I was a Atlanta Falcon player in this stadium, Jake, I said, why mom and dad? They said, son, we don't want to have beer spilled on our head again.

So, I have a plan for tonight. Jake, I'm going to go undercover, baby.

TAPPER: There you go.

WIRE: Just for you. Im going to rock this. I got me a Philly cheesesteak.

TAPPER: Nice, nice.

WIRE: And I'm going to fit right in. I'm in a good place, buddy. Good luck to you. Good luck to your Eagles tonight. It's going to be a good one.

TAPPER: It's very -- it's very exciting. We should point out no matter what happens tonight, the Birds were the overwhelming best team winning the Super Bowl handily. At one point the score was 40 to 6 or something like that against the Chiefs. And -- but our season started off 3-3. Its season started off 3-3.

WIRE: Yeah, yeah. So don't get frustrated, upset, disheveled and distressed tonight. If they get down a little bit it's okay, Jake, it's a long season.

TAPPER: Yeah.

WIRE: They are big favorites tonight. More than a touchdown.

TAPPER: No, no, no, no, don't say that. Don't say that. Don't say that. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, don't say that. Don't say that.

WIRE: I don't want to jinx it.

TAPPER: A real Philadelphia fan says, inevitably, we're going to lose tonight. A real -- that's -- if you really want to blend in. We're going to lose tonight. That's how you do it.

All right. Coy --

WIRE: I'm good. I wear cheesesteak for like the fourth time today. So I'm winning.

TAPPER: All right. Coy, thanks so much. Go Birds!

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now.