Return to Transcripts main page
The Lead with Jake Tapper
House Oversight Committee Release "Birthday Book" And Other Epstein Documents; Rep. Suhas Subramanyam (D-VA) Is Interviewed About Epstein's Birthday Book And Documents From Epstein's Estate; Deadly Stabbing In North Carolina Ignites A Political Contention; Shooting Attack in a Jerusalem Bus Stop Kills Six; Rep. Brad Schneider (D-IL), Is Interviewed About DHS Ramps Up New Immigration Operation In Chicago; Sources: Treasury Secy. Threatened To Punch Bill Pulte In Face; D.C.'s Homeless People Face Heightened Anxiety Amid Trump's Crackdown. Aired 5-6p ET
Aired September 08, 2025 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[17:00:00]
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: No. My Eagles is on a collision course with your Packers.
SCOTT WALKER (R), FORMER WISCONSIN GOVERNOR: I'll be at that game.
(CROSSTALK)
HUNT: Are you really? All right. Well, guys, thank you again for being here. And again, if you guys missed any of today's show back at home, you can always catch up by listening to "The Arena's" podcast. Just scan the QR code below, follow along wherever you get your podcast. Don't forget, you can also follow our show on X and Instagram, @TheArenaCNN. My fellow Eagles fan, Jake Tapper, he's really the OG CNN Eagles fan, let's be real. Standing by for "The Lead" E-A-G-L-E-S, Eagles was a great game.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Go Birds. And Dax, feet first. Thanks Kasie. We'll see you back in "The Arena" tomorrow.
HUNT: Have a great show.
TAPPER: What may be the most viewed page in a certain book today, "The Lead" starts right now. This doodle in the Epstein birthday book that has the White House playing defense showing a woman's figure the President denies drawing and signing his name at the bottom, the White House denies that he signed that name. I'm going to talk to a Democrat on the committee that made this page public.
Plus, the U.S. Supreme Court today allowing roving immigration patrols to continue in Los Angeles as the Trump administration launches a new operation in Chicago. But does it live up to the hype of what Trump wanted. And what sources are telling CNN about the shouting match between two top Trump officials that almost came to blows and went down to the exclusive club reserved for wealthy MAGA loyalists?
Welcome to "The Lead," I'm Jake Tapper. We start in our "Law and Justice" Lead. President Donald Trump swore he never drew a picture of a woman's torso for a book of occasionally bawdy letters celebrating Jeffrey Epstein's 50th birthday back in 2003. A book and drawing disclosed a few months ago, mid-July, but not shown by "The Wall Street Journal." Quote, "The Wall Street Journal printed a fake letter." Trump posted on social media back then. Here's some of what the president said when reporters asked him about this "Wall Street Journal" report.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I don't even know what they're talking about, now. Somebody could have written a letter and used my name, but that's happened a lot.
I don't do drawings. I'm not a drawing person. I don't do drawings. Sometimes people say, would you draw a building and I'll draw four lines and a little roof, you know, for a charity stuff, but I'm not a drawing person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: The president felt so strongly about it, he sued the "Wall Street Journal" and parent company News Corp for $10 billion alleging defamation. Well, today the republican-led House Oversight Committee obtained that birthday book included in documents from Jeffrey Epstein's estate that the committee subpoenaed. The "Wall Street Journal" obtained the picture, here it is. It was also posted by Democrats on the Oversight Committee.
The text reads voiceover, "There must be more to life than having everything, Donald. Yes, there is, but I won't tell you what it is, Jeffrey. Nor will I, since I also know what it is, Donald. We have certain things in common, Jeffrey. Jeffrey, yes, we do come to think of it. Donald. Enigmas never age. Have you noticed that? Jeffrey, as a matter of fact, it was clear to me the last time I saw you. Donald, a pal is a wonderful thing. Happy birthday and may every day be another wonderful secret." And it is signed Donald and as the journal wrote in July, the squiggly Donald signature is below her waist, which the journal interpreted to be a mimic of pubic hair.
A short time ago, White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt said this latest piece by the "Wall Street Journal," quote, "proves this entire birthday card story is false." Also on social media, White House aide Taylor Budowich says this is Trump's signature that you're looking at right now, but it's not the signature on that "Wall Street Journal" report, the piece of paper from the birthday book.
However, if you look at the signature on, from the birthday book which is on the left side of your screen and if you look at his signature on the right-hand side of screen which is from an executive order in 2017, well, that looks pretty similar.
Democratic Congressman Suhas Subramanyam of Virginia is on the House Oversight Committee and joins me now in studio. So this happened today. What has the committee received from the Epstein estate? REP. SUHAS SUBRAMANYAM (D-VA): We've received a lot of documents like
this. I think what we're trying to do is go through them all right now. We have our lawyers on our committee going through them. We're meeting tonight. And I think we're going to find more interesting things like this. But it's pretty amazing that even pretty early on into the review of these documents, we've catched the president in a lie already, right?
And so I just want to know what the FBI has? What does the DOJ have? What are they withholding from us at this point? Because they've so far only selectively released documents.
[17:05:02]
We want answers. That's -- the people want answers. That's what this is all about.
TAPPER: So we should know just for fairness, 2003 when this birthday book was written. This is before Jeffrey Epstein had been arrested for anything having to do with his crimes.
SUBRAMANYAM: Oh, it was while he was committing crimes though, let's be clear. He started at least in 1996 according one victim.
TAPPER: Absolutely, although it's not clear who knew in 2003 about those crimes. "The Wall Street Journal" reports that the so-called birthday book from 2003 is among the documents the committee received. As you noted, this afternoon the journal published what it says is the contribution from Donald Trump.
Trump has previously denied doing it. He sued the paper over its reporting earlier this summer. You have this? The committee has the birthday book and this drawing?
SUBRAMANYAM: Yeah. We subpoenaed -- the Democrats on the committee have been pushing and pushing and pushing to get answers and only when they're backed into a corner have the Republicans and Congress around the committee responded. And in this case, they agreed to subpoena the estate, right? So that's why we have this in the first place. We have a lot of other things too. So a lot of other people that were subpoenaing to come in and actually talk to us, like Alex Acosta next week. I was pushing for that, and we're finally getting him.
So I think the more we push, the more we're getting answers. And that's what this is about. We want to make sure that no matter how powerful, how rich you are, you are not above the law. You cannot run criminal enterprises like Jeffrey Epstein did. So that's why we're not going to stop pushing.
TAPPER: Alex Acosta for those watching was the U.S. attorney who in 2007, 2008 allowed Jeffrey Epstein to enter into a real sweetheart deal for his disgusting crimes. Obviously, this is about much, much more than Donald Trump and whether or not he told the truth about this birthday book. It's about who participated in these crimes. In the whole birthday book, is there -- what can you tell us about who else contributed? Are there any allusions to anything, you know, criminal or seedy?
SUBRAMANYAM: Yeah, yeah, it's tough because, you know, there's people who would sign a birthday book and there's people who participated in the crimes, so those might be separate. But just generally, I think we want to get -- the more we have, the more information we get about Epstein's associates and their relationship with him and what they aided and abetted, I think the better the picture we have about what was going on.
Remember, the FBI, I think, stopped a lot of their investigation when Epstein, you know, killed himself in prison, right? And we have doubts that the FBI really did a thorough investigation began with. That was part of the problem. The victims, when we spoke to them, said that they've been let down over and over again by this government, whether it was FBI, whether it was DOJ and prosecutors.
And so they're coming forward again, right? And so we don't want to let them down this time. We want to get to a place where people can trust this federal government and this Congress, that we will actually get the truth.
TAPPER: You just referred to Epstein killing himself in prison. Are you confident that he did kill himself in prison and there was no other foul play?
SUBRAMANYAM: No, I'm not confident. And again, the more information we get, the better. We have a lot more questions. I would say, though, that what I'm most interested in, though, is how he was able to operate this ring. Why was he given that sweetheart deal in 2007? And who was involved, including the president? And if there's Democrats involved, we need to know that, too. But we've been asking for answers for a while.
I mean, even J.W. Wasserman Schultz in 2019, a Democrat, asked for the release of the files then and was ignored by the first Trump administration while Alex Acosta was employed by that Trump administration. So we've been asking for answers for a long time and I think people deserve the truth.
TAPPER: Right, Acosta was the Secretary of Labor until the scandal reopened after Julie K. Brown wrote a fantastic story for the "Miami Herald" and U.S. Attorney Jeffrey Berman arrested Epstein. Of the documents from the Epstein estate that the Oversight Committee got, you said you referred to other documents. Can you go into any more detail?
I mean, are there business records indicating -- I mean, this guy was a multi-millionaire and he had dealings with all these really wealthy people none of whom have gotten in any sort of trouble although anecdotally, we've heard that there have been a lot of settlements paid to the victims. I mean, any indication as to who some of these individuals are who might have actually been the people who are part -- who -- the rapists who are involved in the trafficking?
SUBRAMANYAM: Again, we're going through them all but I'll say there's address books, right? There's logs of people who visited. There's logs of business dealings. I'll say that this was someone -- Jeffrey Epstein was someone, you know, there's business and then there was his friends and then there was his crimes, right? A lot of that blurred together from time to time. Sometimes he would use his crimes as part of his business dealings to get business, right?
Some of his friends, again, these were favors to his friends to bring them to commit these crimes. And so it's really important that we know all the business dealings he did. We know all the friends he had, right, including Donald Trump, and how close they were. It'll help us get a picture of the crimes as well.
TAPPER: All right, Congressman Suhas Subramanyam, thank you so much. Good to see you. Really appreciate your time.
[17:09:58]
Coming up, the murder of Ukrainian refugee in Charlotte, North Carolina and how this case has become a political and policy flashpoint.
And the interesting remark from President Trump today that some say sounded like he was trying to minimize domestic violence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Things that take place in the home they call crime. You know, they'll do anything they can to find something. If a man has a little fight with the wife, they say, was a crime, see?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: We're going to play for you a little bit more context and we'll let you decide what he meant.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TAPPER: In our "Law and Justice Lead," a horrifying crime in Charlotte, North Carolina, now has the attention of the Trump White House. The August 22nd murder of Irina Zarutska, a 23-year-old refugee who came to Charlotte from Ukraine was stabbed to death on a commuter rail train. Police arrested a man shortly after charging him with first-degree murder. He has an extensive criminal history and reportedly had previously been diagnosed with schizophrenia causing many in North Carolina and beyond to wonder why was this man roaming the streets to begin with.
[17:14:57]
As CNN's Jason Carroll is about to show us, delayed release of this video showing a deadly attack now has turned this into a political and policy flashpoint. And we should warn you, up front, some of the scenes you're going to see in Jason's report are quite disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The images captured on surveillance video begin routinely enough as Irina Zarutska boards the Blue Line train in Charlotte, North Carolina on August 22nd. She takes her seat. We stop the video here because of what happens next. Unprovoked, the man who was sitting behind her identified as Decarlos Brown Jr. fatally stabbed Zarutska.
According to police, the train travels for approximately four and a half minutes before the suspect pulls knife from his pocket, unfolds the knife, pauses, then stands up and strikes at the victim three times. Zarutska was 23 years old. Her family described her as a gifted and passionate artist.
According to her obituary, she emigrated from Ukraine with her mother, sister, and brother to escape the war. And she quickly embraced her new life in the United States. While that attack happened last month, The Charlotte area transit system released the surveillance video this past week, reigniting concerns about violent crime.
UNKNOWN: I don't feel safe riding public transportation, but I got to go to work.
UNKNOWN: Obviously, you know, you see, you get your few people here and there that may cause some type of concern. Like yesterday, I did get followed actually on the train.
CARROLL (voice-over): The suspect is in custody and charged with first degree murder. He has an extensive criminal background. Court records show he has 14 previous arrests in Charlotte alone. He served at least five years in prison for robbery with a dangerous weapon. In January, police arrested Brown for misusing the 911 system after he called saying manmade material controlled when he ate, walked, and talked.
His mother telling CNN, Brown struggled with mental illness and was living in a homeless shelter. When she heard about the arrest, she said, I didn't think it was him. A judge has ordered Brown to be evaluated for 60 days in a local hospital. And while numbers show violent crime in Charlotte is down 25 percent in the first half of this year, the attack has become a political flashpoint with Republican leaders attacking the state's Democrats for being soft on crime.
U.S. Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy saying, "This monster had a track record longer than a CVS receipt. By failing to properly punish him Charlotte failed Irina Zarutska and North Carolinians." The president also weighing in today.
TRUMP: I just give my love and hope to the family of the young woman who was stabbed in Charlotte by a madman, a lunatic. She's just sitting there. So they're evil people. We have to be able to handle that. If we don't handle that, we don't have a country.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CARROLL (on camera): And Jake, Democrats have also been weighing in. Charlotte's mayor released a statement in the days following the incident offering her condolences saying the following, saying, "This is a tragic situation that sheds light on problems with society safety nets related to mental health care." She also posted on X on Saturday calling what happened a senseless and tragic loss saying, "She has been thinking about -- is thinking hard about what safety really looks like in our city."
Also, the Democratic governor of North Carolina also weighing in on this issue today. Governor Josh Stein saying the following, "We need more cops on the beat to keep people safe. That's why my budget calls for more funding to hire more well-trained police officers." Jake?
TAPPER: All right, Jason Carroll. Thank you so much. Horrible story. Just absolutely awful.
Coming up next, what Israel is saying today about a deadly terrorist attack at a bus stop in Jerusalem that sent people running for their lives. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:20:00]
TAPPER: In our "World Lead," at least six people have been killed after a pair of Palestinian terrorists attack a bus stop in Jerusalem today. As CNN's Jeremy Diamond reports for us, the attack sparked an immediate Israeli military operation targeting Palestinian villages in the occupied West Bank.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Amid pops (ph) of gunfire, this crowded Jerusalem bus stop is thrown into chaos, sending terrified Israelis running for their lives. Israeli authorities say two Palestinian gunmen opened fire here, killing at least six people during rush hour. More than a dozen others were wounded in what authorities called a terrorist attack.
ELAZAR TOLEDANO, WITNESS: Suddenly I started hearing a burst of gunfire, at first small and then it intensified. People were looking at each other, trying to understand what was happening, but no one understood. Only maybe after two or three seconds someone suddenly shouted, attack! And people started running.
DIAMOND (on camera): This bus was damaged when the Israeli police say two terrorists opened fire on this crowded bus station in Jerusalem. You can see some of the bullet holes that are still left in this bus, what authorities say is the deadliest terrorist attack in Israel in nearly a year.
UNKNOWN: It was so hard to see all the people laying down in the street and their blood -- bleeding.
DIAMOND (voice-over): Police are hailing an off-duty soldier and several armed civilians for returning fire almost immediately, killing the shooters. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, vowing Israel will deliver a harsh response and won't be deterred.
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, PRIME MINISTER OF ISRAEL MICHELLE MILLER (through translation: These murders, these attacks on all fronts do not weaken our resolve. They only increase our determination to complete the missions we've taken upon ourselves.
[17:25:00]
DIAMOND (voice-over): Within hours, Israeli security forces began raiding several Palestinian villages in the occupied West Bank that were home to the attackers. Israeli police also arrested a resident of East Jerusalem for suspected involvement in the attack.
In Jerusalem, six families have joined this region's long list of mourners. But at this bus stop, shards of glass are swept up, blood is washed away, and people return to their daily lives.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DIAMOND (on camera): And Jake, while Hamas did not claim responsibility for this attack, it did praise the attackers for carrying it out. Meanwhile, the Palestinian Authority issued a statement condemning any targeting of Palestinian and Israeli civilians. It said a two-state solution to this conflict would ultimately be the only way to end this cycle of violence. Jake?
TAPPER: CNN's Jeremy Diamond in Tel Aviv for us. Thank you so much, Jeremy.
Today the Trump administration launched a new crime operation in Chicago, they said, but it doesn't quite align with President Trump's recent threats about what he was sending to Chicago. Is this just round one?
Plus, the controversial Supreme Court decision today allowing immigration officials to conduct what the Los Angeles mayor once called racial profiling.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:30:39]
TAPPER: And we're back with our Law and Justice Lead. And two major actions on the immigration front today. First a controversial ruling in the U.S. Supreme Court in which a six to three majority sided with President Trump allowing what are described as indiscriminate stops masked and armed immigration agents pulling people aside who appear to be Latino questioning their immigration status. Some people interrogated in this case included some U.S. citizens.
In his concurrence, conservative Justice Brett Kavanaugh wrote, "to be clear apparent ethnicity alone cannot furnish reasonable suspicion. Under this court's case law regarding immigration stops, however, it can be a relevant factor when considered along with other salient factors."
Justice Sonia Sotomayor the courts very first Hispanic Justice led the dissent. She wrote, "we should not have to live in a country where the government can seize anyone who looks Latino speak Spanish and appears to work a low-wage job."
Today's decision deals with seven counties in Southern California. Will it serve as a roadmap elsewhere? We may soon find out. The other major action today on immigration is the Trump administration launching a new federal operation in Chicago focusing -- focusing on deportations the Department of Homeland Security calls it Operation Midway Blitz. They say it targets criminal illegal immigrants.
What this operation is not is a National Guard deployment targeting widespread crimes such as what we've seen here in D.C. and what the president has been pushing for weeks now floating that option even again today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We'd love to go into Chicago and straighten it out. You know, Washington, D.C. you'll be happy to know is a free and safe zone. And I don't know why Chicago isn't calling us saying please give us help.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Let's bring an Illinois Democratic Congressman Brad Schneider who represents Chicago's northern suburbs. So Congressman, what are you learning about the immigration enforcement operation that is reportedly underway right now in Chicago? What's the scope and is this just the beginning?
REP. BRAD SCHNEIDER (D-IL): Thanks Jake. The fact is we don't know this administration isn't telling anybody anything about this other than what they put out on social media. They haven't talked to the governor. They haven't talked to the mayor of Chicago. They're not reaching out to the congressional delegation.
What we've read is they announced this Midway Blitz to -- to target and if they're targeting hardened criminals, they're targeting people who are dangerous to the community, our communities will work together with the administration to get people who are a threat off our streets. But what they've been doing in other cities, they've been targeting families, even young kids, American citizens have been deported. That's not what we need.
So we're -- we're very concerned about what the administration is doing. I'd much rather they came up with an operation safe neighborhoods than an operation to scare people and terrify them.
TAPPER: So when ICE launched this Chicago operation, they said they were doing so in honor of Katie Abraham who they say was killed in a drunk driving accident caused by a criminal illegal alien in Illinois this year. Her parents talked about it in the Department of Homeland Security video in which the mom said it's our understanding that he, the drunk driver, was deported in 2016.
And then as her husband stated, he came back using a fake alias. Why do these people who break these laws who are not U.S. citizens deserve due process? Because again, Katie got nothing, Katie got death. The dad says we want to build a country on migrants, probably not the guy you want to stand behind, unquote. Do you think it's worth at all revisiting some of the local sanctuary policies if the case is as the Department of Homeland Security describes and this undocumented citizen got out of prison and was not turned over to ICE and then went out and -- and killed Katie Abraham, I'm sure there are a lot of people with even progressive views on immigration that might think that that's not a good idea.
SCHNEIDER: Sure. I don't know the details of this individual's case. I do know that every day we're losing too many people to drunk drivers and we need to take steps. Every place in this country takes steps to reduce fatalities and injuries from drunk driving. That's one issue that we should focus on.
We also need to strengthen our border security. There's no question about that. And so someone who is deported from this country, whenever the case may be, whether it was last year or five years ago, we need to have a border security that we can identify and track when those people are trying to get back in. We've been trying to work on reforming immigration as long as I've been in Congress more than a decade now. We need to find a path to fix our broken immigration system, to fix our broken asylum system, and make sure that we have smart, strong border security.
[17:35:09]
That's what Democrats have been trying to do. The New Democratic Coalition, which I'm privileged to chair, just put out our framework for immigration reform. We're ready to work with anyone and everyone who will be smart about it, serious about it, and willing to find a bipartisan solution. That's not what this administration is doing, though.
TAPPER: So as I understand Sanctuary City policies, one of the reasons that local authorities are told to not cooperate with federal immigration authorities is, for example, they don't want to have to turn in an undocumented immigrant who goes to public school, or an undocumented immigrant who calls the police about a crime, or an undocumented immigrant who goes to a hospital seeking medical care. But this would be different because if an undocumented immigrant commits a crime and is arrested, don't you think it makes sense to then turn that individual over to federal immigration authorities before they commit another crime?
SCHNEIDER: And I think that's the standard operating policy across the country. If someone commits a crime, and -- and Governor Pritzker talked about this over the weekend, if -- if the federal government has an arrest warrant for someone who they believe has committed a crime, there's nothing prohibiting the -- the local authorities from cooperating and collaborating. This is true in my district. It's true throughout the country.
That's different than these random searches of -- of people wearing masks, hiding their identity. We don't know whether they really are police or not -- not police, who they're associated with, picking up random folks off the street. I disagree with the court's decision. I am the grandchild of immigrants. I have been here long enough that I don't speak with an accent. I don't look like I might be from another country that is in the crosshairs of -- of this administration, and so I may not be targeted.
But because my grandparent was born here, I shouldn't be treated any differently than my colleague whose grandparents might have been from Latin America or from Africa or anywhere else around this country. We've got to work to bring people together rather than dividing them. We've got to work to make sure that our immigration laws bring in the people who are going to make our country stronger, those who are willing to work, those who are willing to bring their creative resources and talents to create the next new company or provide services to the -- the family down the street.
We are a country of immigrants. We should be proud of that tradition, proud of our history, and we shouldn't be trying to divide people, as this President and his administration are trying to do.
TAPPER: Democratic Congressman Brad Schneider of Illinois, thanks so much for your time, sir. Appreciate it.
Coming up next, what a witness told CNN about a heated exchange, curse words and all, between Trump's Treasury Secretary and the federal housing official who gave President Trump those mortgage fraud claims about a Federal Reserve Board member and others. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:41:51]
TAPPER: In our Money Lead, new details about some sort of shouting match between two top Trump administration officials that got so heated it almost came to blows. This one was last week at a private dinner with Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent and found -- federal housing official Bill Pulte. He's the top housing regular -- regulator. The story was first broke by Rachael Bade at Politico with sources telling CNN that Bessent threatened to punch Pulte in the face.
CNN's Kristen Holmes is live at the White House. And Kristen, you spoke with somebody who -- who witnessed the whole thing. Give us the play-by-play.
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jake. They told me it was one of the most insane things that they've ever seen. So the way that they describe it is essentially this dinner was at the Executive Branch, which is a members-only MAGA club. It is a very expensive club, social club in Georgetown. They were having one of their first dinners.
And during the cocktail hour before dinner even began, this shouting match erupted between Bessent and Pulte. Now, Bessent was angry at Pulte. He accused him of bad-mouthing him to President Trump, something that we were told by the sources he was, in fact, doing, was talking negatively about him to President Trump. He said that he was going to punch him in the face. At one point, he said that if he didn't get out of here, that if he didn't leave, he was going to -- if Pulte didn't leave, he was going to leave. And it grew incredibly heated. The founder, one of the co- founders of the Executive Branch, actually had to step in. At that point, Bessent told Pulte they should take it outside.
I am told that Pulte seemed surprised and actually pretty flabbergasted when Bessent approached him. And during this fight, one of the things that we were told is that afterwards, Bessent disappeared briefly, but then later, both of the men were at a -- at the dinner. They sat down, but they didn't sit anywhere near each other.
Now, one of the things to keep in mind here is that Bessent is somebody who President Trump has repeatedly praised, even as recently as Friday night. And Pulte is somebody who has been really having a stock trading high within MAGA World and with President Trump because he has helped lead this effort against the Federal Reserve. And he's the one, of course, who brought the allegations against one of those Federal Reserve governors.
TAPPER: So, is it possible we'll see them in that UFC cage match at the White House? Never mind. That's just a -- I'm just floating it. See what they think about it behind you. I should note, this isn't the first time the Treasury secretary has -- has had some sort of physical confrontation with somebody inside the President's circle, at least according to Steve Bannon.
HOLMES: Yes, and according to sources that I talked to about that event as well, that was with Elon Musk, who at that time was working daily with President Trump. And we know that there was an altercation in the White House, in the halls of the White House, over who was going to lead the IRS. Now, again, we are told that that altercation got incredibly heated. There were sources who said it got physical, others who said it was just a screaming match between these two men, again, all over who was going to lead the IRS.
What's interesting about this, of course, is that if you ever listen to Scott Bessent, the Treasury secretary, he is one of the most soft- spoken members of the administration of the Cabinet. So, clearly, as my source told me, it seems as though he has a short fuse.
[17:45:08]
TAPPER: All right. Kristen Holmes at the White House, thanks so much.
Here now is our panel. And Shermichael, Kristen mentioned that clash between Bessent and Elon Musk. Here's what the Treasury secretary told Bloomberg last month, quote, Bessent won't say whether the matter came to blows, but notes with a touch of deadpan humor, I can 100 percent say I did not give him the black eye. Remember, Elon Musk had a black eye at one point. And now the Treasury secretary almost, you know, coldcocked Bill Pulte, what do you make of that?
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, look, I like Bessent a whole lot more because if you're working with a colleague and the colleagues going to the boss and bad mouthing you and talking crap about you, then you need to go and check that guy and say, what in the F are you doing? Like, we're both trying to do our jobs and execute very well to bring to fruition the President's agenda and the American people who voted for him.
And yet you're trying to jockey for power by -- by talking trash about me. So like most guys, I think most guys would go to another guy and say, cut this BS out or we're going to have a problem. And Bessent handled it like a man. And I personally respect him for it.
TAPPER: So we should also note, just give this gives us an opportunity to bring up Bill Pulte. He's -- he's the he's the federal housing official who sent criminal referrals against Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook, saying that she illegally listed two different homes in two different states, both of them as principal residences on mortgage applications.
Reuters is now reporting that Bill Pulte's dad and stepmom filed similar housing claims, "since 2020 they have claimed so-called homestead exemptions for residences in wealthy neighborhoods in both Michigan and Florida, according to the public records." Now, Reuters didn't reach Pulte's relatives for comment, and obviously they don't work for the government. What do you think about that?
CHUCK ROCHA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I think that he's out there stirring up a lot of stuff. And when he did it on Bessent, he had had enough of it. What you've seen in the reporting out there is that there's people now looking at everybody's housing records going back to, I saw something on the national secretary of public defense and some other folks that were out there. Tulsi Gabbard is --
TAPPER: Yeah, yeah, yeah. The director of national intelligence.
ROCHA: Right. Tulsi Gabbard was out there. And I think that what I would -- I would ask a friend of mine today about this housing thing, I've only got one house choker (ph) here. I didn't realize that you could have to and claim multiple houses, but that it was very common and that the banks tell you to do this.
But what this guy's trying to do is get in good with the boss and say, hey, let me tell you about some Democrats and what they're doing with their housing. But when he did on Bessent, I think that was the final straw with those.
TAPPER: Yes. So, Tulsi, we should just know for the record. So DNI Gabbard declared her residency in Texas, but voted in Hawaii.
ROCHA: That's what I was thinking.
TAPPER: That's -- it's a little different. ProPublica reported that Labor Secretary Lori Chavez-DeRemer, "in her financial disclosure form, listed two mortgages on personal residences, both obtained in 2021." One was at home in Oregon, the other in Arizona. A spokesperson for the Labor secretary dismissed the report. But I want to change the subject, if I can.
So President Trump -- President Trump, do you want to say something about this?
SINGLETON: No, no, no.
TAPPER: President Trump took some credit for bringing down crime in D.C. I want to play something else he said earlier today at the Museum of the Bible. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They said crime's down 87 percent. They said, no, no, no, it's more than 87 percent, virtually nothing. And -- and much lesser things, things that take place in the home, they call crime. You know, they'll do anything they can to find something. If a man has a little fight with the wife, they say this was a crime. See? So now I can't claim 100 percent. But we are -- we are a safe city.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Yikes.
ROCHA: Yeah, you're going to see that -- you're going to -- you're going to see that on T.V.
SINGLETON: Look, I mean, I definitely don't think the President is literally saying if a man has beaten his wife, that that's OK. I think, no, no, I think -- let me just sort of interpret what I think he's trying to say.
ROCHA: All right. All right.
SINGLETON: I think what he's trying to say, if you have a verbal argument with your wife, a woman could call the police. And oftentimes a man could get arrested for that. If the wife says, hey, I felt threatened or he was too aggressive. So I'm going to bet that that's what the President was intending with those comments.
TAPPER: Chuck?
ROCHA: With the lipstick all over that pig, it is still a pig. I'm going to tell you right now that you're going to see that again, because when you talk about trying to figure out motivating factors to show up for a midterm electorate that you have to motivate because it's the midterms, it's not a presidential election. There's no Biden. There's no Trump. Just a bunch of congressmen and senators, Democrats will run that ad.
SINGLETON: Come on, Chuck. How many people out there really believe that Republicans believe in beating their wife?
ROCHA: Because they said it. That's all. It is not --
SINGLETON: That is not -- that is not what he meant by that. Come on.
ROCHA: That's all right.
TAPPER: So one other thing. So over the weekend, the White House marked the fast and furious nature the President Trump has been signing executive orders during the second term, noting that, "no president has signed 200 executive orders this quickly since President Franklin D. Roosevelt." And there you see a picture of him with 200 behind him. This is not, generally speaking, what conservatives have said is a good way to be president of the United States. And in fact, here's President Trump in 2015, 10 years ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I don't like executive orders. That's not what the country was based on. You go, you can't make a deal with anybody, so you sign an executive order. You really need leadership. You have to get people into a room and get something that's -- that's good for everybody. And that hasn't happened under President Obama. So now he goes around signing executive orders all the -- all over the place, which at some point they're going to be rescinded or they're going to be rescinded by the courts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[17:50:19]
TAPPER: So I just wanted to say he does, President Trump have a very compliant House and Senate led by Republicans?
ROCHA: Yes.
SINGLETON: Yes. I mean, does he know Jake? I mean, Republicans can't agree on much of anything. I was surprised we got the big, beautiful bill passed. I think the President's realizing the realities of politics, even when you have a majority, some may call it a super majority, you're going to have factions within your own party that make it very, very difficult to get things done. And so President Trump is doing what every other president's -- predecessor has done before him. And then I just say, you know what, if Congress can't do it, we have to go around them to get something done.
ROCHA: That's fine if everything is going good. But when prices start going up and things ain't going good and you have Latino nannies getting arrested and things ain't happening the way it's supposed to, folks can point this to oligarchy and kings and all the other things that you see folks out there building movements around. I go back to the midterms because you're motivating people to show up to vote.
SINGLETON: Yes, but you guys aren't making that argument.
TAPPER: So you know what, hold the phone. Stay there. We're going to bring you back. Great panel. Stick around.
The President said his federal operation in D.C. is also trying to get homeless individuals off the streets. We're going to show you a little bit of what that looks like in reality, at least for one specific man who told CNN that he's taking some extreme measures as a result of this operation.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [17:55:39]
TAPPER: In our National Lead, we return to our Homeless in America series, where President Trump's order to make Washington, D.C., beautiful means more than just cleaning up trash on the streets. As shelters fill up and resources run dry, advocates say the federal government has abandoned some of its most vulnerable citizens.
CNN's Brian Todd met one man who decided to go across state lines just to get a night of sleep.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Jeff Padgett is on the move.
JEFF PADGETT, HOMELESS RESIDENT OF WASHINGTON, D.C.: All right, girl, here we go.
TODD (voice-over): The 60-year-old, who says he's been homeless on the streets of D.C. for about eight years, steps at a fast pace with his two chihuahuas, Puppet and Luna, along for the ride.
Padgett made his daily stop at a drop-in center for the homeless in Washington to pick up a meal, and is hightailing it across the Potomac River into Virginia to find a safe place to sleep and hide from law enforcement.
PADGETT: Because I will harassed, or locked up, or -- or given -- given an ultimatum, you either leave town, go to jail or going to psych ward. I'm not committing any crimes, I'm not cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs.
TODD (voice-over): Padgett has kept moving since President Trump's law enforcement surge began last month, and authorities have swept homeless encampments.
PADGETT: You don't know where -- what they've been through, where they came from, nothing. And then you're throwing what little they do, have, what little respect they have in the trash can.
TODD (voice-over): Padgett is not alone. Other homeless people tell CNN as Trump pledges to, as he calls it, make the nation's capital beautiful again, the police sweeps have them staying out of sight.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sleeping in wooded areas, underneath bridges and woods.
TODD (voice-over): Some homeless people, a stigmatized population, didn't want their names or faces revealed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Basically, I've been sleeping on the bus, and, you know, even sleeping on the bus isn't easy because there is transit police everywhere, and then I'll sleep in, like, playgrounds and certain areas where there's not really much police activity.
TODD (voice-over): Homeless advocates, like Claire Wilson of D.C.'s Georgetown Ministry Center, reluctantly offer this advice.
CLAIRE WILSON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, GEORGETOWN MINISTRY CENTER: Either leave this community or make yourself invisible. It's a terrible message to deliver to an individual.
TODD (voice-over): Stick together in pairs, advocates tell them. Don't engage with police, and don't linger in public places like the doorways of shops, restaurants, and apartments. Andy Wassenich from the homeless services provider Miriam's Kitchen says his group is struggling to maintain contact with clients.
ANDY WASSENICH, POLICY DIRECTOR, MIRIAM'S KITCHEN: So we give people flip phones so they can stay in touch with us. We've lost, you know, touch with about 25 people, but could be more.
TODD (voice-over): Shortly before he announced a federal takeover of the D.C. Police Department, President Trump posted, "the homeless have to move out immediately. We will give you places to stay, but far from the Capitol." His press secretary followed up.
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Homeless individuals will be given the option to leave their encampment, to be taken to a homeless shelter, to be offered addiction or mental health services, and if they refuse, they will be susceptible to fines or to jail time.
TODD (voice-over): But about a month into the law enforcement surge, homeless advocates say this.
WILSON: To the best of my knowledge, there have been no new mental health services put online, and certainly none offered to our guests.
TODD (voice-over): And advocates say the Trump administration has not provided places to stay as promised. The D.C. government has scrambled to provide some additional shelter beds, but that's a short-term solution some unhoused residents don't consider safe.
Jeff Padgett reached his destination, a thatch of woods on the Virginia side of the river. Out of necessity, he's disappearing from view. But the issue of homelessness isn't going away. What Jeff hopes will disappear is the way the public views those who are unhoused.
PADGETT: Don't judge anyone by where they're at until you know where they came from, their circumstances, why they were there.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (on camera): A critical challenge for the homeless people we spoke to is how long they can ride this out, how long they'll have to hide. Jeff Padgett says he's on a wait list for subsidized housing, but he says that could take months. So Jeff and others like him might have to keep using those tactics of evasion until this law enforcement surge ends. Jake?
TAPPER: And our thanks to Brian Todd for that.
[17:59:57] Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. This hour, the infamous Epstein birthday book is now in the hands of Congress. And the page allegedly from President Donald Trump is now public.
