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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump On Doha Attack, Decision Not Made By Me; Some Republicans Downplay Epstein Birthday Book Revelations; Michigan Judge Dismisses Charges Against Fake Electors; Tariffs Overwhelm NC Company Reliant On Global Imports; MAHA Report Warns Of Dangers Of Synthetic Opioid "7- OH". Aired 6-7p ET

Aired September 09, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. This hour, President Trump is trying to distance himself from an Israeli strike in Qatar, which Israel claims targeted Hamas leaders. But Qatar has been a key mediator in the Gaza ceasefire talks. So, what does any of this mean for any hope for a ceasefire deal?

Plus, a striking warning from the head of the CEO of JPMorgan today that new economic data may signal that the U.S. is headed for a recession. We're digging into the numbers and their real world impact ahead.

Also a judge today throwing out charges against the fake electors who signed papers claiming Trump won their state in 2020 when he didn't. In moments, I'm going to get reaction from the attorney general who brought the charges against these 15 people.

And today, Health and Human Services Secretary RFK Jr.s unveiled his new plan aimed to, quote, making our children healthy again. So, what's in it? Is it realistic? Does it make sense? Our medical experts are breaking it all down ahead.

The Lead tonight, where does the United States relationship with Israel stand after Israel tried to obliterate Hamas' negotiating team inside the bustling capital city of Doha, Qatar, while working on U.S.-backed efforts to end the war in Gaza. President Trump said this afternoon he feels, quote, very badly that the strike happened in the city of Doha. He noted he did not make the decision to strike.

Qatar has been a key player in the negotiations for a hostage and ceasefire deal, a version of which was accepted by Hamas on August 18th. Israel says the attack involved more than ten fighter jets and was, quote, months in the making, but was sped up in recent weeks, according to Israeli sources.

People in Qatar's biggest city, Doha, ran from the blasts, which targeted housing for several members of the Hamas political bureau. Qatar's prime minister says it was, quote, state terrorism, while Hamas says the strike killed five of its members, but did not take out the negotiating delegation. The chief negotiator, Khalil al-Hayya, is still alive, but his son was killed along with a Qatari security official.

CNN's Clarissa Ward is in London. Clarissa?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So, Jake, we're learning now, according to the Qataris, that President Trump actually made a phone call to Qatar's emir, expressing in their words strong solidarity and also issuing strong condemnation for this attack on sovereignty of Qatar. He went on to effectively say that Qatar is a strategic, trusted ally and really urging, Jake, the Qataris to continue this pivotal role that they have been playing for quite some time now in terms of facilitating these talks.

There's a little bit of a question mark as to what happens with the talks we heard earlier from the prime minister of Qatar, who's also the foreign minister who was visibly really, Jake, angry and emotional during this press conference. He was not pulling any punches. He called it state terrorism. He had some choice words also for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, calling him effectively barbaric.

He did say that Qatar will continue its role in the region, but then he also made a comment saying nothing is valid after such an attack. And that's fueling suspicions that at least four, on a temporary basis, these talks appear to be dead in the water with all the potential fallout that that entails. Jake?

TAPPER: And, Clarissa, just before the strike, Israel ordered a full evacuation of Gaza City. Prime Minister Netanyahu says, in the past two days, Israel has, quote, taken down, 50 terrorist high rises, unquote, there, and warned this is only the beginning. What is Israel's goal for Gaza City?

WARD: Well, if you ask Israel, it will say its goal is to completely dismantle and destroy Hamas' capabilities and to bring back the hostages. If you talk to Palestinians or most other people in the region, they will say that this is the continuation of a genocide against the people of Gaza.

I think one thing we can say very clearly is that this is not a step towards peace, rather the reverse. An estimated hundreds of thousands, possibly up to a million Palestinians who are living in Gaza City in the worst of conditions, this is where a famine has been declared, the leaflets that were handed out by the IDF urging people to go to the Mawasi humanitarian safe zone, as they call it. Well, you talk to any humanitarian or aid organization that's present in Mawasi and they will tell you it is neither safe nor humane. Jake, just last week, five children were killed while they were queuing up, lining up for water in Mawasi. Jake?

TAPPER: All right. Clarissa Ward in London, thank you so much.

Joining us now live in studio, former Israeli Prime Minister and current opposition leader Yair Lapid. Mr. Prime Minister, good to see you. Thank you so much for being here.

So, you congratulated Israel's military and Shin Bet for this, quote, exceptional operation. [18:05:04]

But you later posted, quote, the Israeli government needs to explain how the IDF operation will not lead to the killing of the hostages. Do you think Israel should have waited until the hostages were out of Gaza before striking in Qatar?

YAIR LAPID, FORMER ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: I think you cannot isolate the strike. I mean, the strike is impressive. We've shown our ability to strike everywhere in the Middle East, which is a good thing. People should know that terrorists all around the region might wake up one day not waking up, so to speak. But this has to be planted into a strategy.

And right now, the strategy should be bringing back the hostages, which is the main thing we all care about, and the stoppage of the war. And right now, it is too early to say whether or not this contributed to the real goals or the real strategy of the country.

TAPPER: Earlier in the show, we had on Beth Sanner, the former deputy director of National Intelligence here in the U.S., and she basically suggested that she thinks Prime Minister Netanyahu wants this war to last as long as he can have it last because it enables him to hold on to power. Do you agree?

LAPID: Well, I'm not going to analyze the prime minister in international television. I would say the following. People need to remember there's a difference between the government of Israel and the people of Israel. The government of Israel is a minority government right now, and it's also a minority in terms of what the Israelis wants and what the Israelis want.

TAPPER: Israeli people want the war to end.

LAPID: the war to end, and the hostages to come back home. The children are under the underground suffering and dying slowly, and we need to bring them back and this is the main goal of the country.

TAPPER: Do you think Netanyahu wants them back?

LAPID: I think whether he wants them back or not, he doesn't conduct the war the way it should be conducted. What we need to do is to figure out who's going to run Gaza on the day after.

Now, I suggested Egypt will come and be on the lead on this one. We will bring the Saudis, the Emirates, the Moroccan, and the Palestinian Authority with them, the Palestinian Authority only on the civil side. If Netanyahu has a different idea, he should present it to the world and to the American administration.

TAPPER: Do you think that Netanyahu is undermining United States' efforts for a ceasefire and a peace?

LAPID: I think the efforts that are made by Witkoff and the president itself are admirable. I think they're really into it for the right purposes. And I think -- I mean, right now everybody's asking themselves, which is not a good thing, whether or not Israel and the United States are lockstep on the issue.

I cannot tell you how strong of a power it is to walk into, as an Israeli prime minister or foreign minister, to any room in the region when everybody understands that the United States and Israel are fully coordinated.

TAPPER: It doesn't seem to be the case right now.

LAPID: And so it should be the case. This is what we should -- we must make sure that is always the case because this is part of our strengths, this coordination and the fact that we are -- we have a bipartisan support, which I'm not sure we have right now, in the United States Senate.

TAPPER: The mother of an Israeli hostage, Natan Zangauker, said the strike serves as a death sentence for her son, adding that Netanyahu, quote, essentially executed him. And I want you to listen to the brother of a hostage, Evyatar David, on CNN earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ILAY DAVID, BROTHER OF ISRAELI HOSTAGE EVYATAR DAVID: We're just so confused, so confused. I don't know if it's good or bad. To be honest, I have no idea. I hope it'll bring something good. But, again, those were the people that, as I understand, were the people that Qatar used in the negotiations. So, right now, I don't know who Israel is going to negotiate with.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: What's your message to the hostage families?

LAPID: I think everybody's message should be the same. We will never leave you alone. We will never give up on your brothers and sisters and children because they are ours. I think every leader in the world and everybody who has a stage or a camera should speak about this constantly until they're home.

This is a tragedy that started on October 7th. I can tell that our enemies now are trying to forget the fact this war has started with October 7th. I know, Jake, that you've been down south in Israel for many times, and you remember. But so many people are trying to act like it never happened.

We are in the midst of an existential war, and the only victory I can think of is the return of the hostages to their families.

TAPPER: Is there going to be an election at any point?

[18:10:01]

Is there any going to be any challenge to Netanyahu or is this just going to last in perpetuity?

LAPID: No. Right now, common knowledge says we're going to go into election in November, and then the election will be in March. Now, I've been wrong before, but this is what even people in inside Likud are telling me these days, and they're going to lose and we're going to have a different government. And this is why I keep telling people, you have to remember that the friendship is with the people in the country, not the government. The foundations are there and we need a different approach to the region, to the country, to democracy, even to the bipartisan friendship with the United States.

TAPPER: Yair Lapid, always good to have you. Thank you, sir. I appreciate it.

LAPID: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

TAPPER: Today, a judge dismissed the charges against 15 fake electors who signed papers claiming that Trump won their state in 2020, which he had not. The attorney general who brought those charges joins me live to react. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: I wanted to get your reaction to the release of the Epstein estate documents.

REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): I haven't looked at them yet.

REPORTER: Are you concerned about President Donald Trump's birthday book?

[18:15:00]

REP. DERRICK VAN ORDEN (R-WI): Clearly, the birthday note for President Trump is a fallacy. It's just not true, and that's a leftist talking point. It's horrible.

REP. JAMES COMER (R-KY): The president says he did not sign it. So, I take the president at his word.

I don't think the Oversight Committee's going to invest and look it up something 22 years ago. We're going to look --

MANU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So you're just going to take the president at his word, that this is not his?

COMER: What does it have to do with anything?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Today, several House Republicans, including the chairman of the House Oversight Committee, downplayed the President's alleged drawing and signature in Jeffrey Epstein's so-called birthday book from 2003. President Trump vociferously denies ever drawing and signing this picture of a woman's torso. The image went public after the House Oversight Committee released a trove of documents subpoenaed from the Epstein estate. Trump had previously claimed that no such drawing even existed. He's continuing with his lawsuit against The Wall Street Journal, which reported on this months ago.

CNN's Kaitlan Collins is at the White House for us. And, Kaitlan, how is the White House handling the fallout from this drawing from the Epstein birthday book?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, they faced a lot of questions on this today at the press briefing after the Republican-led House Oversight Committee released those documents last night.

And when it comes to the birthday card that you just showed there that, of course, the White House insisted did not exist and is actually part of the president's legal strategy, his attorneys have argued in court that it is non-existent, they said both that signature that you see there at the bottom of your screen and also the one on that novelty oversized check that Jeffrey Epstein was holding that also bears Donald Trump's name, they said that is also not the president's signature, basically implying that both of them were forged with Karoline Leavitt talking to reporters about the president's signature being as famous as it is.

Of course, Jake, you have to remember, these are documents from more than 20 years ago that were part of Jeffrey Epstein's estate that were handed over by that estate, two members of Congress last night that then were made public, of course. And when the White House was asked about this argument that we have heard from the president and several of his top aides that all of this is just a hoax when it comes to the Jeffrey Epstein saga and how they could argue that given the documents that are now in the hands of Congress, this is what Karoline Leavitt told reporters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The hoax is the Democrats pretending to care about victims of crime when they do not care about victims of crime, when they have done nothing to solve crimes, when they have done nothing to lock up child pedophiles and child rapists across the country. And when they are now using victims as political props to try and again smear the president of the United States and drag on this bad story about him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Now, Jake, that is a question that Democrats have faced, why they were not talking about releasing this, you know, during the four years that President Biden was in office. But it's not just Democrats who are trying to make more information public here. Republicans are also part of this and have signed onto that discharge petition, as it's known on Capitol Hill, to try to get them to release more documents. That includes Thomas Massie, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Lauren Boebert, and Nancy Mace. They're still trying to get other Republicans to sign onto that. But, obviously, this is still something that is dogging the White House as they are facing these questions.

And, Jake, remember last week when Marjorie Taylor Greene said that she had personally suggested that President Trump meet with the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein that had been up on Capitol Hill in recent days, today, the White House was asked twice if that is something the president is planning to do. They didn't directly answer, Jake. They just said there's no meetings for that on the president's schedule as of right now.

It was conservatives, it was the Trump campaign, it was Pam Bondi and Kash Patel, J.D. Vance, they were the ones talking about releasing the Epstein information.

All right, Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much. And don't miss Kaitlan on her show, The Source with Kaitlan Collins, tonight. She's sitting down with Independent Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont. That's tonight at 9:00 Eastern only on CNN.

Today, a judge dismissed the charges against the so-called fake electors in Michigan who signed papers claiming that Trump won Michigan in 2020 when he clearly had not. So, is that the end of this legal saga? I'm going to ask the attorney general who brought those charges next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:20:00]

TAPPER: Surprising news in our Law and Justice Lead. Today, a Michigan judge threw out criminal charges against the 15 men and women who had been accused by the state of trying to falsify and falsely certify President Trump as the winner of that key swing state in 2020 in the presidential election. It's a state that President Joe Biden won by about 154,000 votes.

Here now is the Michigan attorney general, Dana Nessel, who was bringing the charges. So, Attorney General Nessel, thanks for joining us.

There were multiple efforts to seek accountability for the corrupt efforts to steal the 2020 election. And then Trump pardoned the January 6th rioters. The state case against Trump and his allies in Georgia is gone. The federal case led by Jack Smith against Trump for trying to steal the election is gone. What do you say to Americans out there who say the system is protecting the bad guys here?

DANA NESSEL (D), MICHIGAN ATTORNEY GENERAL: Yes. I think that we ought to be very afraid for the future of Democratic elections here in the United States. If you can't hold these people accountable for what was clearly such a brazen attempt to overturn the will of the people in our state and in states across the country. Then I'm very concerned as to whether or not we're going to continue to be a functional democracy.

TAPPER: So, earlier today, the judge who ruled against you said she did not, quote, believe that there's evidence sufficient to prove intent, unquote. Is she wrong?

NESSEL: Yes, I would reject the statements made by the judge. I think that we submitted significant evidence. And just to review some of it, if you don't mind, the State Board of Canvassers certified the election for Joe Biden. No recount was ever requested by the Trump campaign at all. There were a number of lawsuits that were filed. Some of the plaintiffs on those lawsuits were these same electors. They were literally laughed out of court.

[18:25:00]

All of the challenges legally were rejected. Our speaker of the House, our Senate Majority leader, put out public statements saying that in the legislature, they were not going to disturb the election results. And then these 16 people go into Michigan GOP headquarters, into the basement, they turn over their phones, they swear an oath of secrecy, and that's when they, you know, draft this document and they falsely state that they are the true electors, that Donald J. Trump won the election, and I think most outrageously that they're signing the document in the Michigan State Senate at 2:00 P.M., and they had to know those things weren't true.

And I'll say further, I mean, let's look at who these people are, right? These are clerks, they are lawyers, they are mayors. You had the chair of the Michigan Republican Party. Many of these people, it's hard to call them dupe (ph), some of them had actually been electors in the 2016 election. So, they of all people should have known the difference.

But yet they still submit this document. They submit it to the National Archives. They submit it to the United States Senate with the hope that Mike Pence will count this false alternate slate of electors instead of the true legitimate slate of the 16 Biden electors. That is what happened. It doesn't change the facts. You have communications between these individuals indicating that they know that Joe Biden actually won the election and they did it irrespective, and it's outrageous.

TAPPER: Is there anything you can legally do in the case, or is it just over because she dismissed the charges?

NESSEL: Well, we're evaluating the case for an appeal. We think that if this case had gone to a jury that the jurors would've been able to make a decision that these individuals were guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. And I think that's the real travesty here, is that a jury will never even hear the facts of this case and they'll never hear the evidence.

And, you know, the fact that no one is going to be held accountable up and down the chain of an effort to overturn an American election, this is a coup, let's just call it what it is. And the fact that these are 15 more people here that are going to get away with it, I think, is incredibly disturbing and should make us fear for the future of this country.

TAPPER: Michigan's Democratic Attorney General Dana Nessel, thanks so much for joining us. I appreciate it.

NESSEL: Thanks for having me. TAPPER: She was a Democrat in the U.S. Senate, then she became an independent, and now Kyrsten Sinema is calling herself the Republican whisperer. She's going to join us live next to discuss how she's working with the Trump administration to advance some particular causes about which she is passionate. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:00]

TAPPER: Our Politics Lead now, former Democrat turned independent U.S. Senator from Arizona Kyrsten Sinema still making waves, from the most vibrantly dressed member of the upper chamber to advocating for research into the benefits, the health benefits of psychedelics, along with a plethora of different policy issues that affect Arizonans and Americans, from taxes to artificial intelligence with a flair for being a quote Republican whisperer, according to The Wall Street Journal's recent profile. And former Senator Sinema is with us now in studio. So great to have you here. Thanks for being here.

FMR. SEN. KYRSTEN SINEMA (I-AZ): It is great to be here. But I got to tell you, I think The Wall Street Journal is the first time anyone has ever mentioned that I whisper. I'm not known for whispering.

TAPPER: Yes, that's true. You're much louder in the best possible --

SINEMA: Definitely project.

TAPPER: People hear you.

So, let's talk about this, because this is really interesting. You were introduced to a plant with psychedelic properties. It's called ibogaine.

SINEMA: Ibogaine.

TAPPER: Ibogaine, after a former staffer of yours used it to treat a traumatic brain injury. Tell us about how your colleagues experience sparked your interest in the drug and why you decided to use it yourself.

SINEMA: Yes. So, I had -- I knew nothing about psychedelic medicine. In fact, I was like, oh, drugs are bad, drugs are horrible, we should stay away. And then a former staffer of mine who was a retired Green Beret had suffered numerous traumatic brain injuries during deployments over the course of, you know, nearly 18 years of service. And I remember he told me one day he was going down to Mexico to do ibogaine treatment. I never heard of it. And I was like, you got to tell me what this is.

So, a week or so later, I saw him again after the treatment. He looked totally different, like ten years younger. And I said, what was this? It turns out it's a plant from Gabon, West Africa. And while we don't know a lot about how it works, we know that it has neuroregenerative properties, which means it actually heals the brain matter inside your brain. So, people with traumatic brain injuries, people with dementia, Parkinson's, all have used ibogaine and actually regrown brain matter and reversed brain aging.

TAPPER: That's fascinating.

SINEMA: It's incredible.

TAPPER: So, it's currently a schedule one drug in the United States.

SINEMA: That's right.

TAPPER: As is marijuana. In August, President Trump privately told donors that he was going to look into rescheduling marijuana, which would lead to greater access to research, safer, more regulated products. Have you spoken with the Trump administration about the rescheduling of ibogaine or marijuana? What are you hearing?

SINEMA: Well, I think better than just asking for ibogaine to be rescheduled, the better, smarter move is to go through the clinical trial process to get it approved by the FDA. Now, once a medicine is approved by the FDA, it automatically gets rescheduled. In fact, the law says you only have 90 days to reschedule after FDA approval.

But ibogaine is a very serious medicine. It's not something you just take at home because you've got a headache or you don't feel good. It is serious, and it's got to be administered appropriately by medical doctors under the supervision of nurses. You've got to ensure that you're addressing the potential arrhythmic risks. It could have some heart risks.

Now, if taken care of appropriately in a good medical setting, it's very safe and, of course, incredible healing properties.

TAPPER: But you took it?

SINEMA: I did.

TAPPER: When and for what?

SINEMA: I did. I traveled to Mexico in May of this year and underwent ibogaine treatment. You know, my, my grandmother passed away during COVID after a years-long battle with dementia, and dementia runs in my family.

[18:35:00]

And, Jake, it probably won't surprise you when I tell you that my number one fear is losing my brain power, right? And --

TAPPER: So, you took it for that?

SINEMA: Yes. The research shows that one treatment of ibogaine reverses brain aging by an average of 1.5 years, just one. So, your brain actually gets younger and heals.

TAPPER: But you did it under medical supervision?

SINEMA: Oh, yes. TAPPER: Okay.

SINEMA: So, this is legal in Mexico and there are a number of clinics with doctors and nurses, very, very strong professionals, very safe, very secure. And that's how I underwent the treatment.

TAPPER: Another topic that you're really interested in and, in fact, invested in is artificial intelligence. You launched the Spark Center with Arizona State University from which you have four degrees where you've taught with a focus on supporting neurodivergent learners. What do you make of President Trump's posture on A.I. and what are you guys doing over there?

SINEMA: Yes. So, you know, there are folks who have lots of various opinions about the Trump administration, but I got to say on A.I., they are knocking it out of the park. David Sachs, who was appointed as the A.I. and crypto czar, knows the stuff inside and out.

As you know, just a couple weeks ago, the administration came out with their A.I. action plan. It is well-reasoned. It is well-thought. It is ambitious. I mean, it really strikes a path for us to win the A.I. race against China, which I think is of national security importance, but also kind of an existential threat that we face as a country.

TAPPER: Where do you think A.I. -- I've heard, I was talking to a doctor just earlier today, about the ability to use A.I. to come up with medicines.

SINEMA: Yes, that's actually already happening. I'm actually working with a company that uses AI to identify gaps in kind of the pharmaceutical industry and look for orphan drugs that have been left behind, or diseases where we could use existing drugs to apply to other diseases. I mean, the potential of A.I. to transform all of our lives is incredible.

But the Spark Center for Innovation and Learning that I launched at ASU is something I'm really excited about. I am launching a global challenge for folks around the world, much smarter on A.I. than you or I. Well, actually you might be a genius. I have no idea.

TAPPER: Yes, you were right the first time.

SINEMA: Okay. To utilize A.I. to develop tools to support neurodivergent learners. So, these are kids who are autistic or have ADHD or dyslexic and who maybe are falling through the cracks in the school system or whose parents don't know how to help them, like get to their full potential. We're going to use A.I.

TAPPER: To identify them?

SINEMA: Not just identify, but actually develop tools that help them throughout the lifelong learning process. So, maybe someone will help us with early identification. Maybe someone will make an app that helps an autistic kid transition to college and live independently. Maybe there'll be an app that helps dyslexic students take in information differently than in a traditional classroom. I mean, the opportunities are endless and I'm so excited for this center. We're partnering with OpenAI and we're going to do a competition, and then financially and with mentorship, help these companies actually get to the market.

TAPPER: I have so many more questions, but we're out of time. Will you come back?

SINEMA: Yes, I will come back.

TAPPER: Okay. Good to see you. Former Independent U.S. Senator from Arizona Kyrsten Sinema, so good to see you.

SINEMA: You too.

TAPPER: Thanks so much.

This afternoon, the Trump administration released its report aimed at making children healthy again. We're going to break down what's in it, how realistic the plan is with a top doctor next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:00]

TAPPER: In our Health Lead, HHS Secretary RFK Jr. this afternoon released the Trump administration's plan to make America's children healthy again. It includes investigating vaccine injuries and pharmaceutical practices. It stops short of any new regulatory action for now.

The 20-page report contains a lot of initiatives aimed at restructuring the federal government's response to what Kennedy says is a childhood chronic disease crisis, specifically targeting poor diet, chemical exposure, lack of physical activity and chronic stress, and what it terms overmedicalization, basically doctors prescribing too many pills to kids.

Joining us down to discuss is Dr. Jonathan Reiner. Dr. Reiner, thanks for joining us. So, what stands out to you in this 20-page report?

DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: I think the lack of methodology. I mean, it was very heavy on goals, a lot of ambitious goals, really. Many of them are really easy to get behind, but not much on the strategy for doing that. Kind of like a state of the union, you lay out this sort of broad, you know, plan but without a lot of meat.

What stands out is that two major factors that affect children's health were notably absent. One is food insecurity. You know, the secretary of HHS has been -- and you can hear his voice in this when I read this report, I can hear RFK Jr.'s voice. These are some of the topics that he's been talking about now, you know, for a decade. But there are two major areas that are absent.

You know, one is nutritious, affordable food for kids. You know, he talks a lot about, you know, the epidemic of ultra processed foods and also obesity in kids. But he doesn't mention that one of the drivers. Of childhood obesity, which is fast food, is dictated by how cheap it is and how affordable it is for folks who don't have, you know, significant economic resources. You know, large parts of, you know, D.C. where I live, you know, don't have places where you can just tell folks to go and buy a salmon. And people don't have the resources to just do that. So, this omits that.

And another major piece that this, you know, report completely skips is one of the leading killers of kids. The second leading killer of children is guns or are guns, and that is notably absent.

TAPPER: Yes.

REINER: So, it seems like, you know, some of these sort of, what are called woke topics, were left out of that, but these play a huge role in children's health.

[18:45:02]

Guns kill more kids every year in the United States than cancer does.

TAPPER: Yeah. One of the things --

REINER: And yet, that's absent from this report.

TAPPER: You note that it talks about ultra processed foods and how too many people, too many kids in this country eat too many of these ultra processed foods.

And amen on that. He's completely right.

REINER: Right.

TAPPER: But as I learned from Peter Jennings back in 2003 when he did a report on why this was happening and why it continues to happen, it's a really complicated issue having to do with farm subsidies and decisions by the manufacturers of ultra processed foods. I don't want to name them right now, but we all know the brand names. We see them in the supermarket, and I didn't see any action items on how to do that.

REINER: Right, because I think they're really tiptoeing around, the farm and agriculture, industries. So, you know, the report is, is plays, you know, is a very politically sensitive. So it didn't talk -- it didn't talk at all about that.

And the other thing I sort of -- that bothers me a little bit about this, the whole theme of the project is that he called this is the sickest generation of kids. And I think there's -- there are a lot of things to do in terms of, of dealing with obesity and diabetes. I'm completely behind improving food both at home and in schools.

But America -- what I -- what I like Mr. Kennedy tell me, is when was America healthier?

TAPPER: Right. That's just crazy.

REINER: When he was born in 1950 -- when he was born in 1954, the average life expectancy in this country was 68 years. And in 79 years now. So we've gone a long way in improving health and longevity. And this is a great -- this would be a great time to double down on efforts to do better and to improve many of the things that he says in here.

But the whole tone of his report back in May, when he laid out in excruciating detail the problems with health in this country, have nothing -- it basically paints a picture that were basically, you know, this is, you know, the 14th century and the black death is upon this country.

TAPPER: Right. No, I know.

REINER: So --

TAPPER: Walk through any cemetery that goes back a few hundred years and see how many graves there are to one- and two-year-olds. I mean, that is what health used to be like. We're much healthier now, although, as you note, a lot of work to be done.

Dr. Jonathan Reiner, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

New in our money lead today. Today, the U.S. Supreme Court agreed to hear arguments over President Trump's tariffs, planning to hear the case in November. President Trump wants the justices to overturn -- overturn that lower court ruling that found his administration acted unlawfully in -- by imposing tariffs without explicit authority from Congress.

You can -- coming up right now, we're going to have with us a business leader named Samuel Fish. Stay with us. We'll bring him right in.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:52:02]

TAPPER: Let's get back to our "Business Leaders" series, where we talk to small business owners about the impact of Trump's tariffs.

Shield Security Doors makes custom residential security windows, doors, and panic rooms.

Shield founder Samuel Fish joins me now to talk about President Trump's tariffs.

Sam, thanks for joining us.

So, when you started shield in 2013, you manufactured everything in Europe, 12 years later you have set up shop in North Carolina. This is exactly what President Trump wants. He wants to bring manufacturing back to the United States.

How are tariffs impacting your business? SAMUEL FISH, FOUNDER, SHIELD SECURITY DOORS: Thanks for having me,

Jake.

The short answer to your question is that tariffs are having a negative impact on our business. And that's coming through in a couple of different ways. First, it's driving up the costs on components that we need to import for our security doors. And second, it's creating a competitive disadvantage for us when it comes to exporting our doors and selling it in other countries.

Now, as you mentioned, we've done exactly what the administration wants, exactly what President Trump says is the goal of tariffs, because after over a decade of manufacturing in eastern Europe, we've brought new manufacturing to the U.S.

My late father, Aaron Fish, employed over a thousand people right here in North Carolina manufacturing keys and locks. And he instilled in me the principle of, whenever possible, make your product where you sell it. So, this is why in mid-2024, well before the election, I started the process of moving our production from Eastern Europe to the U.S. I didn't have a crystal ball. I didn't know President Trump would be reelected and that we would have tariffs.

I was simply guided by that principle of make your product where you sell it.

TAPPER: So, I understand you source your locks from Italy. Some components from China and your steel from Sweden. In June, Trump increased the tariff rate on steel coming from Sweden into the U.S. to 50 percent. Is it possible to source the parts of your products that you're getting from overseas? Is it possible to source them domestically? And if not, how are you dealing with the impact on costs?

FISH: So, looking at our business on paper, you would think were the biggest fans of tariffs. But as you're getting at, in order to produce world class security doors, we need world class components like those multi-point locks from Italy. And like that very specialized bulletproof steel from Sweden.

So as an American security door manufacturer, we still rely on a global supply chain because there's no one in the U.S. who makes a lot of these components. And as a result, tariffs are driving up our costs on those imported components.

[18:55:01]

And that's averaging out to about $500 per door. So, now, there's a second element to tariffs -- go ahead.

TAPPER: No, no -- you go.

FISH: There's a second element to tariffs that gets a lot less attention. And that's the impact that it's having on American exporters. When our government imposes tariffs on goods coming from other

countries, they typically do the same to U.S. So, when we sell security doors in Canada, it costs our customers 30 percent more than it did a year ago because of Canadian tariff -- new Canadian tariffs on American products. And that makes it very difficult for us to compete internationally against security door manufacturers in other countries.

TAPPER: Fascinating stuff.

And you can shop for Shield Security Doors on their website at shieldsecuritydoors.com.

Samuel Fish, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

In our national lead, a notable mention in today's new HHS MAHA or Make America Healthy Again report, it warns about a synthetic opioid known as 7-OH and a need to educate the public about the dangers of 7- OH, which is derived from the kratom plant. I believe I'm pronouncing that correctly, but maybe not.

As CNN's Danny Freeman reports, some praise its growing popularity. Others worry the plant's new form can be abused.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sean Zamorano does not want to go back to his old life.

SEAN ZAMORANO, OWNER, PHILL KRATOM: I found myself in this place where I was feeling very hopeless. And, you know, for me, my first thing that I wanted to do was reach for the drugs.

FREEMAN: Through the 2000s, Sean was in and out of homeless shelters, having run ins with police, hooked on opioids and other drugs until he discovered kratom.

ZAMORANO: For me, you know, when I tried kratom and I found that the compulsion went away, it was just this unbelievable weight lifted off my shoulders.

FREEMAN: So really, for you, kratom was a godsend.

ZAMORANO: Yeah. Kratom changed my life.

FREEMAN: Kratom is a tropical tree native to Southeast Asia. The leaves are often dried and crushed and consumed in drinks like tea or taken as tablets. The FDA says these products are usually used to self-treat conditions such as pain, anxiety, opioid withdrawal, and more.

Sean and his wife now sell kratom online in Philadelphia, but he and others are concerned that spin offs of kratom that look like this are ruining the market and may be harmful.

ZAMORANO: It's more than polluting the kratom industry. It's really about keeping consumers safe.

FREEMAN: Kratom regulation is a mixed bag. Some states have banned it. The FDA has not signed off on any medical uses for it, and even warns consumers not to use kratom because of the risk of serious adverse events.

And this summer, public health officials began sounding the alarm about exactly what Sean was worried about, a derivative of kratom known as 7-OH.

JIM O'NEILL, FORMER DEPUTY SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICESE: We've seen a disturbing rise in reports of overdoses, poisonings and emergency room visits linked to products containing 7- OH.

FREEMAN: The FDA says 7-OH is a concentrated byproduct of the kratom plant that can be more potent than morphine.

O'NEILL: These substances are often sold online or in convenience stores with no quality control, no dosage control, and no warnings. This is a recipe for public health disaster.

FREEMAN: In Pennsylvania, poison centers are seeing increased call volume around both kratom and 7-OH consumption, something the rehab center 70 miles northwest of Philly, has seen firsthand.

DR. ADAM SCIOLI, CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, CARON TREATMENT CENTERS: As we get further away from the leaf, we know less and less about what's in it.

FREEMAN: Dr. Adam Scioli is the chief medical officer at Caron's Addiction Treatment and Rehab Center in Pennsylvania. And he says in recent years, he's seen an increase in patients coming in, addicted to 7-OH.

SCIOLI: It's remarkably similar to what you would expect to see with an opioid use disorder. So classic signs and symptoms of opioid withdrawal. You're talking about sweats, runny nose, irritability.

FREEMAN: And sometimes, packaging makes 7-OH seem just like an opioid.

SCIOLI: Part of the dangers involved with this substance are the marketing strategies that are being used, the accessibility and the lack of regulation right now.

FREEMAN: Kirsten Smith is an assistant professor at Johns Hopkins who studies all forms of kratom.

DR. KIRSTEN SMITH, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR, JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY: At this point, it's fair to say that anything under this umbrella that we call kratom has some abuse liability or addiction potential.

FREEMAN: But Smith hopes more research can be done with all types of kratom consumers to make sure lawmakers and public health officials make informed decisions. SMITH: Like with anything, there's potential benefits and there's

potential harm and risk. And those are still being figured out in all different forms of kratom right now.

FREEMAN: Danny Freeman, CNN, Philadelphia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: And our thanks to Danny Freeman there. After the FDA's warning this summer, the holistic alternative advocacy group called Recovery Trust told CNN, quote, the FDA needs to hear from researchers, toxicologists and addiction science experts and from the American people. They say cutting off access to kratom helps no one, but will hurt many.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now. I'll see you tomorrow.