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The Lead with Jake Tapper
Manhunt Underway For Suspect In Charlie Kirk's Killing; Bloomberg: 18,000 Epstein E-Mails Reveal Secret Conversations; Stock Soar Despite Bad News On Inflation, Jobs; Charlie Kirk's Murder Shocks & Angers Conservative Media. Aired 5-6p ET
Aired September 11, 2025 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Pain, confusion, anger. And for the families who lost a loved one that day, that pain still so real 24 years later. But in that moment in 2001, America's leaders sought to unite us in our grief and not to divide us in our anger.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, 43RD U.S. PRESIDENT: Tonight, I ask for your prayers for all those who grieve, for the children whose worlds have been shattered, for all whose sense of safety and security has been threatened. This is a day when all Americans from every walk of life unite in our resolve for justice and peace. America has stood down enemies before, and we will do so this time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. "The Lead" with Jake Tapper starts right now.
[17:00:50]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. And we start with the breaking news. The FBI director himself, Kash Patel, now headed to Utah to help investigate the assassination of Trump ally Charlie Kirk as this manhunt intensifies. Kirk, the conservative activist, was fatally shot in the neck at a college event yesterday about 40 miles south of Salt Lake City.
The 31 year old leaving behind his wife Erika and his two young children. Sources tell CNN that Vice President J.D. Vance changed his plan from attending a 9/11 anniversary event commemoration event in New York to go to Utah instead. That way, Air Force Two can fly Kirk's remains to where he lived in Phoenix, Arizona.
Earlier today, the FBI released these two images of a man whom they say is a, quote, "person of interest." The FBI offering a $100,000 reward for any information that helps find Charlie Kirk's killer. Authorities announced earlier today that in the forest nearby near the shooting, they found a high powered bolt action rifle that they believe was used to kill Charlie Kirk. A number of scrawled writings on the rifle and ammunition were discovered. Sources tell CNN the topics ran from the transgender community to anti fascism, but sources caution that it's too early to assign motive.
Investigators are also scouring through hundreds of tips and videos, including this one taken around the time Kirk was shot. It seems to show a person running on the roof of a building fewer than 200 yards away from Kirk -- where Kirk was sitting. Unfortunately, Charlie Kirk's murder, one of the more horrendous chapters in a devastating cycle of political violence in this modern era. Some other recent examples include this past June when Minnesota Democratic State Representative Melissa Hortman and her husband Mark, were killed in a targeted shooting at their home just outside Minneapolis. A second Democratic lawmaker, State Senator John Hoffman, and his wife were also shot and wounded in a related attack.
In May, Israeli embassy staff members Yaron Lischinsky and Sarah Lynn Milgrim were shot and killed outside the Capitol Jewish Museum here in Washington, D.C. The 31-year-old suspect who shouted free Palestine was charged with murder and hate crimes. The month before that, in April, Pennsylvania Democratic Governor Josh Shapiro's home was burned in an arson attack. Last summer, of course, then candidate Donald Trump faced not one, but two assassination attempts during his 2024 campaign for president. We're going to take a look at this horrific rise of political violence in the United States.
But first let's go to CNN's Ed Lavandera who reports from Utah with the latest on the manhunt for the killer of Charlie Kirk.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): More than 24 hours after Charlie Kirk was killed on a Utah college campus, the manhunt continues. Investigators have focused intensely on this Orem, Utah neighborhood next to the Utah Valley University campus in the chaotic moments after the show shooting. Dispatchers had a description of the possible gunman.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wearing all black, black long gun, black tactical helmet, a black mask, possibly wearing a tactical vest and jeans.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): We met an electrician working near the university who says someone matching that description approached a co- worker at this job site.
DYLAN HOPE, CO-WORKER OF EYEWITNESS: He had black sunglasses. He had a black COVID mask and a black trench coat, black cargo pants and he was wearing a small backpack and he also had long, greasy black hair. The guy said someone's been shot.
LAVANDERA: Looking back on, did that person think that was the shooter now?
HOPE: The guy was already trying to leave and so he -- we were then shown a picture by the sheriff at the time and the excavator said that it matched. LAVANDERA (voice-over): The FBI also released images of a person of interest and posted up to a $100,000 reward for information leading to an arrest.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So there's somebody on the roof over there.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): And say they have what they call good video of the suspect.
BEAU MASON, COMMISSIONER, UTAH DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY: That individual appears to be of college age.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): That video has not yet been released. Investigators say they have also located the weapon they believe was used in the shooting.
ROBERT BOHLS, FBI UTAH SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE: That rifle was recovered in a wooded area where the shooter had fled. It is a high powered bolt action rifle.
[17:05:06]
LAVANDERA (voice-over): According to sources with knowledge of the investigation, the rifle was scrawled with phrases related to cultural references.
BOHLS: Investigators have also collected footwear impression, a palm print and forearm imprints for analysis.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): And law enforcement officials say they have more details about the shooter's movements on Wednesday.
MASON: Starting at 11:52 a.m. the subject arrived on campus through the stairwells up to the roof, across the roof to a shooting location.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): Almost 30 minutes later at 12:20 p.m. Mountain Time, just as Kirk began to answer a question about gun violence, he was shot in the neck.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know how many mass shooters there have been in America over the last 10 years?
CHARLIE KIRK, CONSERVATIVE POLITICAL ACTIVIST: Counting or not counting gang violence?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Great.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get down, get down, get down.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): Shot from a distance of about 150 yards, according to CNN estimates. And law enforcement officials say they tracked the gunman's movements across the roof.
MASON: He moved to the other side of the building, jumped off of the building and fled off of the campus and into a neighborhood.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAVANDERA (on camera): And Jake, we are in this neighborhood that investigators have been focusing so intensely on. And one of the witnesses that we spoke to earlier said that he was told by one of the workers working in a construction job at house that the suspect or someone matching the description of the suspect might have very well come up this driveway you see behind me. If you go down this way, it gets down into a wooded area where we have seen investigators combing through that, taking in a great deal of investigative efforts and measurements and working through that wooded area. So we don't know exactly that's where the rifle was found, but there has been a great deal of activity there and all of that in this area just behind me on this -- in this neighborhood kind of overlooking the campus where the shooting took place yesterday. Jake.
TAPPER: All right, Ed Lavandera in Utah, thank you so much.
And just a bit more now on the cultural mentions that Ed referred to in that piece, this is the latest reporting from CNN. Preliminary report sent by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms and Explosives stated there were engravings on a spent cartridge and three chambered rounds inside that rifle that was found in the wooded area near the scene of the crime. The details in this ATF reporter unverified. Officials familiar with the investigation told CNN the initial report called the bulletin typically includes all information gathered in an investigation, but it's not always correct information. The ATF bulletin said agents found engravings they interpreted as, quote, "expressing transgender and anti-fascist ideology," unquote, on ammunition inside a weapon believed to have been used in the murder of Charlie Kirk.
Two law enforcement sources tell CNN that agents quickly ran an initial search one of the markings, including a series of arrows, which analysts initially interpreted to be a connection to the transgender community. But that information remains unverified and is still being investigated. Authorities have not yet determined a motive in the killing.
President Trump made remarks on his way to Marine One. And we're going to bring you those remarks as they come in, which should be any second. Let's roll that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you concerned about your own safety?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Not really, I'm really concerned for our country. We have a great country. We have a radical left group of lunatics out there, just absolute lunatics. And we're going to get that problem solved. I'm only concerned for the country. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you believe in -- UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, how do -- how do you want to see
your supporters respond to this, Charlie Kirk was a big advocate of nonviolence and free speech on campus. How do you want your supporters to respond, sir?
TRUMP: I think that way, he was. He was an advocate of nonviolence. That's the way I'd like to see people respond.
Say it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you speak with his family --
TRUMP: I did. I spoke to Erika, his wife, and we had a long talk and she's devastated. She is absolutely devastated, as you can imagine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you -- and sir --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Inaudible) have you any -- anywhere before the (inaudible) behind the Charlie Kirk assassination?
TRUMP: I don't know what you're saying.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think about the people --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, when -- Mr. President, are you planning to bring both presidents, the president of Congo, Felix Tshisekedi, and president of Rwanda to be at --
TRUMP: Yes, they're coming soon. They're coming soon. And as you know, I spoke to their foreign ministers. They were here a couple of weeks ago, as you remember, and they'll be coming soon. The presidents are coming very soon.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This week, Mr. President, eyewitness more than 60 people in DRC, Congo were killed. There is people affiliated with ISIS, terrorist group are taking advantage because of the situation going on, because of the war. So what is your word for Congolese people?
[17:10:11]
TRUMP: Well, we're going to be talking to them. As you know, we are talking to them. It's a very violent place. It's very, very violent. For a long time, it's been going on for 30 years, 35 years even, they say. But we're going to handle it. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, have they found the shooter?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Question on the growth (inaudible) recent growth in Poland, can you (inaudible) in Poland? Any reaction.
TRUMP: I can't understand.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President -- UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, what do you -- what do you think
about the media that justified the murder of Charlie Kirk?
TRUMP: I think it's terrible. They're going to be ashamed of themselves.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why haven't --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why haven't they found the shooter yet, Mr. President? Are you concerned that it's been 24 hours?
TRUMP: Well, I hear they're making big progress and we'll have to see what happens.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have any -- do you have any indication of the shooter's motivation, sir?
TRUMP: I have an indication, yes. But we'll let you know about that later. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are you going to do about the Russian (inaudible) in Poland?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe you spoke with Uzbekistani president, and this last Sunday you sent greetings to Kazakhstan. U.N. general assembly is upcoming, are you going to meet with the presidents of Central Asian countries?
TRUMP: President where?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Central Asian countries, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan?
TRUMP: I will be, yes. They're very good people and I will be doing that, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So you believe that killer was a trained assassin? Usually your instincts are always on.
TRUMP: I'd rather not say. I think progress is being made. He's an animal, total animal. And hopefully they'll have him and they'll get him. What he did is disgraceful.
Charlie Kirk was a great person, a great man. Great in every way, especially with youth. And what he did, what this man did was disgraceful. So hopefully we'll have him and we will deal with him very appropriately.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's your reaction -- what's your reaction to Russian drone incursion into Poland? TRUMP: Could have been a mistake. Could have been a mistake. But regardless, I'm not happy about anything having to do with that whole situation. But hopefully it's going to come to an end.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, in Brazil, in Brazil, Bolsonaro was just found guilty by the Supreme Court. You've been very clear that you would apply sanctions. Are you thinking further sanctions to Brazil because of this Bolsonaro?
TRUMP: Well, I watched that trial. I know him pretty well. Foreign leader who's a good -- I thought he was a good president of Brazil. And it's very surprising that that could happen. That's very much like they tried to do with me, but they didn't get away with it at all.
But I can always say this, I knew him as president of Brazil, he was a good man and I don't see that happening.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, Mr. President --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, I'm very sorry for your loss, for everybody's loss.
TRUMP: What are you saying?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm very sorry for your loss, first of all.
TRUMP: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How do you think Israel's attack in Doha will affect the hostage deal?
TRUMP: You better say it a little bit. Where are you from?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. I'm from Israel. Channel 14, it's like (inaudible).
TRUMP: OK. Go ahead, do it again. Do it again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. How do you think Israel's attacking Doha will affect the hostage deal?
TRUMP: Well, hopefully it won't affect it at all. We want the hostages out and we want them out soon.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President --
TRUMP: Hopefully it won't affect it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, my condolences to the -- my condolences of Charlie Kirk. May I ask (inaudible), how are you holding up over the last day and a half days?
TRUMP: I think very good. And by the way, right there you see all the trucks, they've just started construction of the new borough for the White House, which is something they've been trying to get, as you know, for about 150 years. And it's going to be a beauty. It'll be an absolutely magnificent structure. And I just see all the trucks, we just started. So it'll get done very nicely and it'll be one of the best anywhere in the world (inaudible).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you so much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: President Trump speaking to reporters outside the White House moments ago as he left the White House for Marine One, the helicopter that was providing all that loud ambient sound behind him. President Trump said he has spoken with the widow, Erika Kirk, the widow of Charlie Kirk, referred to the Kirk killer as a, quote, "total animal." Let's bring in CNN's Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst John Miller. Also with us, CNN Senior National Security Analyst Juliette Kayyem.
John, what are your sources telling you about the latest in the manhunt for Charlie Kirk's killer?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, inside the investigation, they'll tell you, you know, they had two people in custody in the very early hours, both of those people washed out, nothing to do with the shooting. Not uncommon in a -- in a fast moving case. What they've done since then is they've had other people they've picked up, they've had other people they've questioned, they've had other people that they have had on the radar. But the big development today is what you're looking at, the release of the photographs that they have obtained, photographs that they have, video that they have not released yet. But that -- this gives them the great advantage of crowdsourcing, which is there are millions of people who are seeing these pictures.
[17:15:14]
They're getting lots of tips about who that might be. It's the kind of picture where if you didn't know him, you wouldn't recognize him. But if you knew him well, you might well recognize him from these photos.
The second piece is the recovery of the gun found in that wooded area, wrapped in a towel, that gives them multiple opportunities. Perhaps there's a print on the gun, perhaps there's skin cell DNA that was transferred on the gun. Obviously, the ballistics matter. What I'm told from my sources are, is that the round that was the shot that was fired at Charlie Kirk, the shell casing is still inside that gun with three additional rounds. So he fired the one shot, didn't even eject the shell casing, walked off, discarded that weapon and kept going.
So it is at a high pitch. There was a press conference planned today that was postponed, they said, because of activity in the investigation. That's usually a good sign that it's moving forward, not backward, because they didn't have time to talk about it, that means things are going on. TAPPER: And Juliette, law enforcement officials have stressed that as each hour ticks away and the shooter is not located, the search becomes more difficult. Now FBI Director Kash Patel is on his way to Utah. How do you think the FBI has handled this investigation so far?
JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: So there's two FBI. One is obviously the FBI in D.C. in terms of the national FBI. And then -- and then what we -- there are the field divisions or the field directors, which is generally and typically how these things are run. You have an FBI SAC, as we call them, Special Agent in Charge, and that person is the face, the investigator. And because they represent the community, the FBI in Utah has worked with local law enforcement, state law enforcement, other players in the community.
And so there's been a tradition in which you would have almost all the activity coming out of Utah. We saw some mistakes yesterday in which Patel not only got made mistakes, but the very fact he was tweeting a live investigation is just not -- it's not good. I mean, it's not good for a variety of reasons, but it's really not good when you have the wrong people because you're going to have the public focus one way. Oh, it's this kind of person. It's an Arab-American, it's an old crank, and not in the way you want them to.
So now the crowdsourcing appears to be running out of Utah. That is good. Someone in the community may know the individual and hopefully come forward. Like John, I think a canceled press conference is probably good. And I don't think Patel adds anything.
His presence adds anything and could also distract from what is necessary at this stage, which is they have to catch him. It's not just because for the Kirk family and for the -- his -- the people around him, for us, I mean, you cannot let a political assassin not be found --
TAPPER: Yes.
KAYYEM: -- because then they generate oxygen and people like them. And that's horrible. Got to find him.
TAPPER: Yes. No, look, he's a desperate killer on the loose. That's dangerous. Juliette Kayyem, John Miller, thanks to both you.
CNN is also live in Phoenix where there is a growing memorial for Charlie Kirk at his Turning Point USA headquarters. The White House plans to honor the activist, ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:22:53]
TAPPER: In our national lead, Vice President J.D. Vance canceled plans to be at ground zero in New York for 9/11 commemoration events and instead flew to Salt Lake City to meet with Charlie Kirk's family. Vance was a close friend of Kirk. He's escorting Kirk's body as well as his widow Erika and other Family members aboard Air Force Two today. CNN's Meena Duerson is at the Phoenix airport awaiting that arrival. Meena.
MEENA DUERSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we are here in Phoenix at the airport where in a few hours, Vice President Vance is expected to arrive with Charlie Kirk's family and with his remains. Vice President Vance has spoken about how he and Charlie Kirk were very close, that, you know, he not only helped him advocate for him to become the vice president, but that he helped deliver the state of Arizona for President Trump and also has helped staff much of the White House. Charlie Kirk moved his headquarters for Turning Point here in 2018. So he's been a fixture, you know, here in Arizona since then. And his wife was a former Miss Arizona.
So this is, you know, where they're coming. And we expect him to be here in just a few hours.
TAPPER: And Meena, as you mentioned, Vance, the vice president, was a close friend of Charlie Kirk. Do we know how the Kirk family is doing? Obviously, horrible, horrible situation for them, for Erica, his widow, and also two very young children.
DUERSON: I mean, my understanding is that they are devastated. I don't think that there has been really any more word on how they're doing other than, you know, they will be traveling back here with the vice president. But obviously, just very stunning, devastating news from everyone in the Turning Point community, you know, sharing their condolences for the family. You know, this was like a, a very dedicated family unit. And I think people are, you know, sending their outpourings of support to his wife as well as, you know, their very young children, as you mentioned.
TAPPER: Meena Duerson in Phoenix, Arizona, thank you so much.
[17:24:47]
Coming up, the British ambassador to the United States was fired today because of his past ties to Jeffrey Epstein. What a new Bloomberg report revealed after the news organization obtained a trove of Epstein e-mails.
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TAPPER: In our law and justice league, the downfall of the highest ranking official to date in the Epstein saga. Today, the U.K. fired its ambassador to the United States, Peter Mandelson. First, his name popped up in that Epstein birthday book that was released this week, which includes a note apparently from Mandelson describing Epstein as, quote, "my best pal," unquote. Then there was more, much more. Mandelson's name came up over and over in a collection of Epstein e- mails published today by Bloomberg.
Let's bring in Jason Leopold, a senior investigative reporter of Bloomberg who helped publish this report today. Thanks for joining us, Jason. Give us a sense of the type of e-mails that mentioned former ambassador Mandelson.
[17:30:11] JASON LEOPOLD, SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, BLOOMBERG: Sure. Thanks for having me on Jake. So these e-mails are about 100 of them between Mandelson and Epstein. And it covers a five year span between 2005 and 2010. Importantly however, there are maybe about 80 or so that span the two years in which Jeffrey Epstein was charged with sex crimes in Florida and -- and following through, through 2008 when -- when he was trying to fight back against the federal investigation.
TAPPER: Mandelson --
LEOPOLD: And within those e-mail --
TAPPER: Keep going.
LEOPOLD: Yes. Within those e-mails you -- you see, you read Mandelson, you know, supporting Epstein to the point where he -- he brings up by using the art of war a Sun Tzu's art of war to -- as a tactic to way to fight back against these allegations. There's another e-mail just a day before Epstein reported to prison in 2008 in -- in which he said that, you know, this is something that just couldn't happen in Britain. It was essentially a grave injustice what was happening to Epstein.
TAPPER: That's true. It didn't happen in Britain. Prince Andrew obviously was named in the scandal. Mandelson told the British tabloid "The Sun" that he found his words, quote, very embarrassing. He said he regretted falling for Epstein's lies. Did you find it notable that -- that Mandelson is not denying that he wrote these e-mails?
LEOPOLD: Yes. I do find that notable. But, you know, the -- the e- mails speak for itself. And, you know, for the -- for your listeners out there, you know, we have a separate story that are a brilliant team of data reporters and engineers put up just to explain how we vetted these e-mails.
So it was very clear that, you know, that -- that it would -- it would be hard to essentially deny, you know, what -- what we were presenting here. And as I mentioned there are, you know, there are, you know, there's a trove. But in the ones that we that -- that we reported on you really get to see how that relationship between Epstein and Mandelson was going and -- and how it was very close to the point where, you know, Mandelson was trying to help him trying -- trying to help him beat back these charges.
The federal investigation and, you know, essentially going to work for him lobbying to some extent or at least that's what Epstein asked him to do to assist him.
TAPPER: You also note in the e-mails that you obtained that Epstein and his ex-girlfriend, Ghislaine Maxwell, who's in prison right now exchanged e-mails about trying to discredit the women who raised allegations against them. Tell us more about that.
LEOPOLD: Sure. So this is another story that we published this morning. And this is based on 650 e-mails that Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein exchanged. And it really gets to, you know, you get -- you get to see how close their partnership was. And within those e- mails there are discussions that -- that, you know, that's taking place in which Maxwell you get -- you get the sense that the, you know, the -- the heat is turning up on Maxwell.
And she is discussing with Epstein how they can discredit -- discredit ultimately Virginia Giuffre. And she asked him for, and this is in 2014 by the way, in an e-mail, can you give me whatever your attorneys have the files on -- on Virginia. And basically within those files whereas it appears to be some sealed documents, confidential documents.
And sometime later a story pops up in "The New York Daily News" related to what was in those confidential files.
TAPPER: Fascinating stuff. Jason Leopold of Bloomberg, thank you so much. Appreciate it. Great reporting.
LEOPOLD: Thank you Jake. Appreciate it.
[17:34:35]
TAPPER: A big day for Wall Street. The Dow, the S&P and Nasdaq all closed with record highs last hour. So how does that square with the economic alarm bells we heard earlier today. We're going to try to make some sense of it, next.
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TAPPER: Our Money Lead now, record highs today for all three major U.S. stock exchanges. The Dow rallied more than 600 points to close above 46,000 for the very first time. This came despite new economic red flags. Consumer prices rose at an annual rate of almost 3 percent in August. As Donald Trump insists, President Trump insists his tough tariff policy and is not having any sort of impact. And while we see a slowdown in job hirings, Wall Street veteran, Art Hogan of B. Riley Wealth joins us now.
Thanks so much for joining us, Art. So JPMorgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon said yesterday he isn't sure if the economy is just slowing or if it's going into a recession. What do you think?
ART HOGAN, CHIEF MARKET STRATEGIST, B. RILEY FINANCIAL: Well, I would tell you this. Jamie Dimon has done a pretty good job of always being the person that is the most concerned about economic data and the pace of economic growth. He runs the largest of the money center banks, so that's kind of his role to take on that sort of cautious tone. So he's been pretty consistent with that. But I think if you look at JPMorgan's results and the fact that they had record results and the fact that they're seeing very little credit card default at the bank, as are the other money center banks like Bank of America and Citibank and Wells Fargo.
[17:40:22]
So I think that there is a reason to be cautious. I just don't think that we're on the on the edge of a cliff here. I just think we've seen a slowdown in both jobs creation and certainly a consumer that is becoming very choiceful.
TAPPER: It seems if you go through the inflation report today, it seems like there are Trump policies, specifically tariffs written all over it. The cost to repair your car is up a record 5 percent in a month because of tariffs on auto parts. Coffee prices up because of tariffs on -- on coffee from Brazil. How can the administration continue to claim the tariffs aren't raising prices?
HOGAN: I'm not sure how the administration can continue to make that claim. What I will tell you about the report, and I think you're right, if you look at core goods that are imported, there's certainly upward pressure on inflation and -- and that 2.9 percent on the headline and 3.1 percent on the core are nowhere close to what the Fed would like to see for their inflation target.
But the offset to that has been a bit of a pullback in energy prices and certainly a pullback in shelter costs. So when you look at the basket of goods, it's not accelerating as much as the core goods are accelerating. So you're right to highlight those things that are clearly tariff influenced core goods that we import are certainly going up.
The -- the way the Fed will likely look at this and say this is going to be a one-time event. These core good prices are going to go up by whatever that amount is that the trade war finally settles at. And that's in limbo right now. And there's nothing monetary policy can do about that one time price increase. But at the same time, their other mandate for full employment is clearly being challenged right now with the slowdown in jobs creation.
TAPPER: The report on first time claims for jobless benefits came in at an almost four-year high after hiring came to something of a standstill in the summer. Why do you think employers are so concerned about hiring right now?
HOGAN: Yes, so employers are in the same place that you and I are about trade and tariffs and what that will mean for the economy. So I think employers look at this and they've been very slow to fire, but very slow to hire. And that's why we're seeing the average nonfarm payroll number of jobs creation on a monthly basis has gone from something like 75,000 a month down to 30,000 a month.
We don't know how many jobs we need to create to keep unemployment in check, but unemployment has moved up from 3.9 percent to 4.3 percent over the course of the last year. I would tell you, I think if I'm running a company right now and there is still unknowns about where we land on this trade war highway and what the actual rules of the road will be, I'm still going to pull back and not make big decisions about creating new jobs.
I think once that clears, whenever that happens to be, if it gets out of the courts, you know, through the month of October or if the administration has to go to plan B on this, that uncertainty is going to keep us from creating a lot of jobs on a monthly basis.
TAPPER: Fascinating. Art Hogan, thanks so much. Appreciate it. [17:43:06]
From sorrow to anger, the wide reaction to the assassination of Charlie Kirk. My next guest has an interesting take on Kirk's influence in American politics. Stay with us.
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TAPPER: In our Politics Lead, a bit of what we heard from prominent voices in conservative media reacting to the assassination of conservative activist, Charlie Kirk.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MEGYN KELLY, HOST, THE MEGYN KELLY SHOW: The most important voices that we've had in my lifetime on the right.
BEN SHAPIRO, HOST, THE BEN SHAPIRO SHOW: We're going to pick up that bloodstained microphone where Charlie left it.
STEVE BANNON, HOST, BANNON'S WAR ROOM: But we have to have steely resolve, right? Charlie Kirk's a casualty of war. We're -- we're in this country. We are.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Those were Megyn Kelly, Ben Shapiro, and Steve Bannon. Of course, here now joining us, New York Times staff writer, Robert Draper, who spent a lot of time with Charlie Kirk before publishing an in-depth profile on him earlier this year. That I highly recommend for those out there who may -- maybe don't understand why there is such -- there's such an outpouring from the Republican Party. In your profile, Robert, first of all, thanks for being here. I appreciate it. I know it's going to be a rough day. Anytime anybody you spend a lot of time with gets assassinated, it's horrible. In your profile, you know, Kirk wasn't just interested in getting conservative leaders elected. He wanted to transform culture. That's how the peace ends.
ROBERT DRAPER, AUTHOR AND STAFF WRITER, THE NEW YORK TIMES: That's right.
TAPPER: And he saw young Americans as key to doing that. Tell me why you think his death is so significant.
DRAPER: Sure. I mean, I think, for one thing, his youth is key. If he was 57 years old or something and had achieved what he had achieved, it would be one thing. But he, at the tender age of 31, was a leading conservative influencer, had to be in the top three or four, was a very, very important campaign organizer, particularly on campuses.
I think that you can make the argument, Kirk certainly did, that his organization was instrumental in helping to deliver the youth vote in Wisconsin, for example, and -- and thus allowing Trump to win that. But on top of that, he was like a key and discreet inside advisor. Again, surprising for someone his age, who -- who the entire Trump family felt very close to, beginning with Don Jr., who hired him in 2016 to be his personal assistant, but extending ultimately to the president, who I think really viewed him as a kind of adopted son.
TAPPER: You just heard Steve Bannon say that Charlie Kirk was a, quote, casualty of war.
DRAPER: Yes.
TAPPER: On today's "New York Times" podcast, "The Daily," you said, "Kirk was, in a sense, killed in the line of duty." How do you see his death influencing the conservative movement? Because, boy, there are a lot of people in the conservative movement who not only hurt, not only upset, but really angry.
[17:50:07]
DRAPER: Yes.
TAPPER: And I'm not saying they shouldn't be. But like really, really to see it tangibly, the very man.
DRAPER: I think you're right, Jake, and I don't think there's any reason -- there -- there's nothing that would indicate to us that the conservative movement will cool its passions as a result of this assassination. I don't think that this is going to stir a kind of unifying theme. To the extent that there's any unity, it will be unity against the left. And we have seen, you know, really from the moment his assassination was confirmed, people using third-person plural, they. They did this to Charlie Kirk in the way that we heard frequently after the assassination attempt on Trump and Butler. So they're viewing this, the conservatives are, as an us-versus-them moment.
TAPPER: And lastly, Republican Congressman Tony Gonzalez of Texas posted, "I signed on to a letter to Speaker Johnson calling for a statue to be put up in our nation's capital honoring Charlie's contributions to our great nation." Was he really that -- that influential, a statue on Capitol Hill?
DRAPER: I mean, I do think that this kind of almost hyperbolic, if well-intentioned, gesture is indicative of the times we're in. You know, in the sort of attention economy where people are always out doing each other, whether it's to praise or to condemn. I have no doubt, again, that Gonzalez means what he says about this.
But, no, I mean, Rush Limbaugh, who Kirk modeled himself after, got the Presidential Medal of Freedom while he was alive. And Charlie, it sounds like, will get it posthumously. He didn't get a statue.
TAPPER: Yes. Robert Draper, great stuff. And I do recommend people go back and read his piece not just today, but his piece back in February, I think it was, in "The New York Times Magazine."
President Trump just announced that he is going to posthumously award Charlie Kirk the Presidential Medal of Freedom, as you just heard Robert say. He was quick to point blame for Kirk's murder. Here's part of a video message the White House released last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: For years, those on the radical left have compared wonderful Americans like Charlie to Nazis and the world's worst mass murderers and criminals. This kind of rhetoric is directly responsible for the terrorism that we're seeing in our country today. And it must stop right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: And my panel is here. T.W., your response to that, to what you just heard from President Trump?
T.W. ARRIGHI, VICE PRESIDENT, PUSH DIGITAL GROUP: Yes, I think it's the way a lot of conservatives feel. This is a very scary time in our nation's history. And I saw something online on Twitter, ignoring all the horrible stuff I did see, which said they couldn't beat him in a debate, so they shot him. And that really stuck with me.
I was reminded of a time when I studied in London, and along my jogging route was Speaker's Corner of Hyde Park. And I always thought it was very quaint and antiquated that people would gather there and talk amongst themselves and talk about obscure policies or movements. But it's what our founders envisioned change to look like, and it's what Charlie Kirk did.
He saw on campuses across America conservative voices being stifled. And instead of looking at anger and violence and inciting mobs and destruction and shutting things down, with a smile on his face and a sign that said, prove me wrong, he reached out to people who he disagreed with and looked for dialogue and debate. And isn't that what we want? Isn't that what we want in change movements and political leaders? Because I think it's what I want, and I think it's what the most of Americans want.
TAPPER: Karen?
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: So, I think there's a couple things. I think in this moment we should not let ourselves off the hook. And, you know, there's a tendency to say this isn't who we are. I think we have to say this is who we are.
TAPPER: The American people, you mean.
FINNEY: Yes.
TAPPER: Just as there's political violence against the left and the right.
FINNEY: Well, but it's not who we have to be. And that's what this moment should be about. If we decide as America that this is not who we have to be, then I don't care if you're left or right. What matters is political -- there's no place for political violence, period, full stop.
You know, you don't have to have agreed with Charlie Kirk or been a fan of his to say two kids woke up today without a dad. TAPPER: Yes.
FINNEY: And that's wrong. And I wish that I was not surprised by the President's remarks. I was disappointed as an American because I wish that there had been more of a call to let's come together and say this is wrong. I think we saw a lot of people on the left and the right trying to do that with their platforms. And I think anybody, you know, you never know who's listening or watching to what you say.
And we have a responsibility in moments like this. I mean, I'm angry, too. And, you know, and I, you know, but these statements, they push you into your corners. And this is a moment we've got to try to not get in our corners and say we just can't stand for this.
TAPPER: So when the President spoke, he did not mention any examples of political violence against progressives or Democrats. We should note that there has been. I mean, in June, a gunman shot and killed a Minnesota Democratic state lawmaker and her husband and had a hit list of 45 other Democrats.
[17:55:11]
In April, President, I mean, Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro's residence was set on fire. The suspect said he planned to beat the governor with a hammer. But instead of mentioning them, President Trump said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: From the attack on my life in Butler, Pennsylvania, last year, which killed a husband and father to the attacks on ICE agents, to the vicious murder of a health care executive in the streets of New York, to the shooting of House Majority Leader Steve Scalise and three others. Radical left political violence has hurt too many innocent people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: That's true. But there's also been radical right political violence. And doesn't it seem to you T.W. that we should be just like condemning it all because it's all horrible. I'm not letting anybody off the hook.
ARRIGHI: All political violence is wrong. Charlie Kirk said it right when he said we stopped -- when we stopped talking to each other that's when violence happens. Be the change you want to see in the world. Let there be peace on Earth. Let it begin with me. Each one of us has a cross to bear in this and we ought to take that seriously.
FINNEY: I agree.
TAPPER: I'm into that. Thanks to both of you. Appreciate it.
In our National Lead today marks 24 years since the September 11th terrorist attacks that killed nearly 3,000 innocent Americans. Attacks that to this day families fight to get accountability for to all those who lost loved ones on that day or from complications since then, may your loved ones memory be a blessing.
A new documentary follows the untold story of two steam fitters who, like many brave New Yorkers, risked their own lives to aid their fellow Americans in the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks. Here's a little clip from five days on the pile.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We had already discussed we were going to go in the next day, no matter what. We were going.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They only have 72 hours to survive without water.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We knew we could help cutting steel, whatever. Whatever they needed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Chris Wagner and Ralph Red Anderson saw firsthand the destruction wrought in lower Manhattan and the resolve of the community to come together and help each other -- other in a time of need, a decision that had a resounding impact on their lives, both emotionally and physically.
And joining me now is 9/11 volunteer responder, Chris Wagner. Chris, you mentioned several times where you and Red skip lines and sneak your way back into the pile. What drove you to go to such lengths to go back every day?
CHRIS WAGNER, 9/11 VOLUNTEER RESPONDER: We just wanted to help. And it was -- in the first two days, it was chaotic. And then they wanted you to go and register. And by the time you registered, it would be 10 o'clock, 11 o'clock in the morning. So we would just go down there and just find -- we knew where to go. And we found our way through the financial center. And we went through the window to climb out onto the pile.
TAPPER: You talk about these lines of volunteers who would remove bodies from the pile. And Red mentions how he saw people leave his line because -- because they couldn't take what they were seeing. Why do you think you were able to push through?
WAGNER: Just keep your head down and just get the job done. You know, we had to cutting torches -- cutting steel to get the bodies out. Just shut your mind down and get it done.
TAPPER: And you were constantly repeatedly assured by the government that the air was perfectly safe to breathe. We know now, of course, that was not the case. If you had been told that there were potentially dangerous chemicals in the air, would you have still gone to help?
WAGNER: Yes, sir.
TAPPER: Why? WAGNER: Just, you know, we just felt that they needed the help. And they did need the help in the first few days. Like I said, very chaotic, as you can imagine. So we just went in, went to work. But yes, to answer your question, had I known, I still would have went in. TAPPER: Amazing. In the film, you go back to ground zero for the first time in 20 years. What was it like to go back there after all this time?
WAGNER: It's very powerful because now you're seeing where you made your way in, which of course now is completely rebuilt. And I actually got a little confused as to where we entered at first. Yes, I had never gone back until you see on the documentary that day.
TAPPER: Chris Wagner, thank you so much for talking to us today. We really appreciate it.
WAGNER: Thank you. Thank you for having me.
[18:00:01]
TAPPER: And welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. The breaking news this hour, manhunt, the manhunt is on for Charlie Kirk's assassin, still very much --
