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The Lead with Jake Tapper
New Reports that Charlie Kirk's Assassin Confessed Crime on Discord; President Trump Claims Political Violence Comes from the Left; FBI Director Reveals New Details on Kirk's Shooter; President Trump Answers Question in the Oval Office; U.S. Strikes Second Alleged Venezuelan Drug Boat; Trump & Vance Repeatedly Blame "The Left" For Violence; Rep. Mike Lawler (R-NY), Is Interviewed About NY Governor Endorses Mamdani For Mayor. Aired 5-6p ET
Aired September 15, 2025 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[17:00:00]
KASIE HUNT, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT & HOST: All right. Thanks to all of you for watching. Jake Tapper standing by for "The Lead." Hi, Jake.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Thanks, Kasie. We'll see you back in "The Arena" tomorrow.
HUNT: Have a great show.
TAPPER: Did Charlie Kirk's killer confess in a Discord chat? "The Lead" starts right now. Quote, "I'm sorry for all this." A message reportedly from the suspected assassin in the Charlie Kirk murder. What else was written as the FBI director himself reveals new details about other evidence including DNA evidence.
Plus, exactly one month ago, President Trump and the American people literally rolled out the red carpet for Russia's Vladimir Putin. What the Kremlin is saying today about the chances of a next step towards Russia ending its war against Ukraine.
But first, the new deal just announced to save TikTok in the United States. How much different might the wildly popular social media app look just to keep its operations going in the U.S.?
Welcome to "The Lead," I'm Jake Tapper. We're going to start in our "Law & Justice Lead." The suspect accused of assassinating conservative activist Charlie Kirk appears to have confessed to the murder in an online chat before turning himself in. That's according to "The Washington Post" breaking news this afternoon. "The Post" reports that 22-year-old Tyler Robinson sent a series of messages to a small group chat on the online platform Discord.
One of them says, quote, "hey guys, I have bad news for you all. It was me at UVU yesterday -- that's Utah Valley University. I'm sorry for all this." "The Post" then says Robinson told the group that he would be surrendering shortly and he thanked the group for, quote, "all the good times and laughs." All this as FBI Director Kash Patel is revealing even newer details
about the assassin, the alleged assassin ahead of his court appearance tomorrow. Patel says there's a note that the suspect allegedly wrote and that the suspect's DNA evidence is connected to the gun, the rifle used in the killing. Patel also defended his initial social media post shortly after Charlie Kirk's murder saying that a suspect was in custody, a claim that he had to walk back less than two hours later.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KASH PATEL, FBI DIRECTOR: Could I have worded it a little better in the heat of the moment? Sure. But do I regret putting it out? Absolutely not. I was telling the world what the FBI was doing as we were doing and I'm continuing to do that and I challenge anyone out there to find a director that has been more transparent and more willing to work the media on high-profile cases or any case the FBI is handling.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Meanwhile, despite the fact that political violence has been targeting both Democrats and Republicans in recent months and years, President Trump said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: It's not on the right like some people like say on the right. The problem we have is on the left and when you look at the agitators, if you look at the scum that speaks so badly of our country, the American flag burnings all over the place, that's the left. That's not the right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Important fact, at least according to all studies that we know of, most political violence in the last several years has been committed by people on the right. We'll get into more of the political fallout and heightened security fears following Charlie Kirk's horrific assassination. Let's start with CNN's Danny Freeman who's in Utah where this investigation is centered.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Chilling new messages revealed by "The Washington Post" about the suspect in the Charlie Kirk assassination. Twenty-two year old Tyler Robinson reportedly writing, quote, "hey guys, I have bad news for you all." Going on to say, quote, "it was me at UVU yesterday. I'm sorry for all of this." "The Washington Post" reporting the message appeared to be a confession to friends in the social and gaming app called Discord and sent Thursday night just hours before Robinson's arrest.
The news coming as "The New York Times" reports that Robinson joked in Discord messages that a, quote, "doppelganger" was trying to get him in trouble when investigators released photos of the suspect. Also today, FBI Director Kash Patel announced DNA evidence connects Robinson directly to the crime scene.
PATEL: I can report today that the DNA hits from the towel that was wrapped around the firearm and the DNA on the screwdriver are positively processed for the suspect in custody.
[17:04:59]
FREEMAN (voice-over): But law enforcement officials are still working to understand what may have driven this young man to allegedly open fire on Charlie Kirk.
PATEL: My job as FBI director is not to speak to motive, is to speak to the facts. And that's what I'm going to do.
FREEMAN (voice-over): Investigators are focusing in on a potential note that Robinson may have written prior to the shooting. Director Patel says it was destroyed.
PATEL: We have evidence to show what was in that note, which is -- and I'm going to summarize basically saying, I -- the suspect wrote it out saying, "I have the opportunity to take out Charlie Kirk and I'm going to take it."
FREEMAN (voice-over): Another area of interest and help to authorities so far has been Robinson's roommate.
SPENCER COX, GOVERNOR OF UTAH: The roommate was a romantic partner, a male transitioning to female. This partner has been incredibly cooperative, had no idea that this was happening and is working with investigators right now.
FREEMAN (voice-over): Officials are still investigating whether the roommate relationship may factor into a potential motive. Robinson lived and grew up here in southwest Utah in a conservative family, acquaintances told CNN. According to the governor, Robinson moved very far left in recent years.
COX: These are the facts that are being presented to us, family discussions, parents, this is what they're saying.
FREEMAN (voice-over): In Robinson's hometown Sunday night, his community mourned Kirk while processing that the suspected assassin was a neighbor.
SHERRIE STAHELI TATE, SOUTHERN UTAH RESIDENT: It's really hard. You just don't -- can't imagine someone from around here to do something like that.
FREEMAN (voice-over): Sherrie Staheli Tate's family has lived here for five generations and told us Robinson went to school with her daughter.
TATE: I said, well, how would you describe him? And she said, I would describe him as, you know those kids that are kind of too smart that they're not common sense smart.
FREEMAN (voice-over): Here, Sherrie and the community praying both for Kirk and the Robinson family.
TATE: I just felt it in my heart because that's just not what happens here. It's naive of me, but it's not what happens here.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FREEMAN (on camera): Now, Jake, all eyes are on tomorrow when we're expecting to hear for the first time really from prosecutors and also expecting to see Robinson make his first court appearance. And I'll say that Utah officials say that they expect a lot more information to be released to the public once Robinson is formally charged here in the state. Jake?
TAPPER: All right, Danny Freeman in Utah. Thanks so much. Let's bring in John Miller who is CNN's Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst and former FBI Deputy Director Andy McCabe. So John, "The Washington Post" put out these Discord messages which appear to show the alleged assassin confessing to having murdered Charlie Kirk. Tell us more about this and what your sources are telling you about the ongoing investigation.
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT & INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: So these messages come from a Discord chat server where the alleged shooter and his friends, some of them friends from high school, who played assorted games together would meet to do the gaming and, you know, shoot messages back and forth to each other. When the pictures of the shooter came out, you know, in that server, in that chat room, people said, hey, that looks like you, and he said, yeah, that was my doppelganger.
They kidded back and forth about it and there was some kind of good- natured play on his part. But just after his father contacted law enforcement after recognizing his son from the pictures and getting his son, we are told, allegedly to admit to being the shooter, he went back to the computer, went on with that group and said, you know, I some bad news for you. That was me at UVU.
That combined with other elements, Jake, whether it's the DNA that Kash Patel tells us is on the towel that the gun was wrapped on, or the pictures, or the other evidence, you know, all of these things come together to paint a pretty strong picture of what we believe prosecutors will present tomorrow in court.
TAPPER: And John, some of what we know about the shooter includes that he got good grades, he got a four-year college scholarship, he left after one semester, enrolled in a technical college for an electrical apprenticeship program. He seems to have come from a close knit family. Do we have any ideas of now what radicalized him to commit such a horrific act?
MILLER: No. In fact, Jake, one of the big intelligence gaps here in the picture is where did he go from being the kid that his family knew to being the individual who was behind that rifle allegedly last week. And as the FBI has a chance to go through his material including his electronic material, that means they're going to be able to interview a lot of people as we did interviewing people in his life who said things like he was mostly quiet and didn't let a whole lot out in terms of conversation or opinions except occasionally, but that will become a richer picture over time.
[17:10:01]
One of the things recovered from a hard drive that had been deleted was the note that Kash Patel referred to. The FBI's CART team, the Computer Analysis and Response Team, actually recovered the deleted document because it had not yet been written over in other data. So we'll keep learning as we go through that material.
TAPPER: Andy McCabe, today on Fox, FBI Director Patel defended his initial tweet shortly after Charlie Kirk was killed where Patel said that a subject was in custody. He's likely to face a lot of questions about his handling of this investigation when he testifies on Capitol Hill later this week. What do you think are the prognosis for Patel weathering the storm?
ANDY MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: I think he'll weather the storm. I mean, he still has -- we haven't heard any really particularly loud negative comments about him coming from the Hill, and so I think he'll weather that storm. But with respect to his really unconventional and unhelpful tweet early on in the investigation, I guess I heard his comments about it today and I guess my response would be, well, you wouldn't be on television defending having made that tweet if you didn't make the tweet in the first place.
The fact is, FBI directors of every administration, certainly every FBI director I've worked for, are very, very careful about the subjects they weigh in on. And I can't think of one who would ever have chimed in on releasing specific investigative updates about an ongoing case much less an ongoing case of this magnitude. It was really just poor decision making on his part. It did not go well. I think he's been rightly criticized for it, but I expect it will probably blow over.
TAPPER: And John, just two days after Kirk was assassinated, an incendiary device was found under a local Fox TV news van in Salt Lake City. It's about 40 miles north where Charlie Kirk was assassinated. Two people are now under arrest. Do you sense we've arrived at a place now where law enforcement agencies across the country are on high alert?
MILLER: I think we arrived there a long time ago, Jake. If you look at the kinds of things that have been happening starting on the first day of this year with the terrorist attack in New Orleans, school shootings in Minneapolis, politicians being gunned down in their front doors, the Charlie Kirk shooting. The pace of this, which used to be something that was every month or every other month, is now every week or every other week.
Something is definitely wrong with the idea that our public discourse has now become a discourse that is spoken in violent acts as opposed to discussions. TAPPER: All right. John Miller and Andy McCabe, thanks to you. Ahead,
overwhelming calls for more security due to increased threats in the wake of last week's assassination of Charlie Kirk. But first, some breaking news from President Trump who just confirmed a brand new strike on a boat that he says was carrying narcotics and drugs from -- through cartels from Venezuela headed to the U.S. We're going to show you the video he just released and talk about it next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:15:00]
TAPPER: President Trump is taking questions from reporters at the White House right now. Let's listen in.
(BEGIN VIDEO)
TRUMP: I started to scream when I got into a restaurant, oh, you know, something with Palestine. And said, well, I'm doing a great job for peace in the Middle East. I should get lots of awards for that, right? With the Abraham Accords and everything else. But a woman just stood up and started screaming. And she got booed out of the place, too. The people, there were a lot of people in the restaurant. I went there to show how safe, and it was safe. I mean, a woman is just a mouthpiece or she was -- she was a paid -- she was a paid agitator. And you have a lot of them.
And I've asked Pam to look into that in terms of RICO, bringing RICO cases against a criminal RICO, because they should be put in jail. What they're doing to this country is really subversive.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Yeah, I'm sure.
UNKNOWN: -- and one on Charlie Kirk. Well, you're potentially going into St. Louis. You mentioned you want to go to Chicago next. Could St. Louis be out to Chicago?
TRUMP: It's going to be around there someplace. Yeah, we got to save St. Louis. We got to save these cities. This isn't like, you know, we're going to do something. We have to save St. Louis. We have to save Chicago. I know all about Chicago. I have a great, beautiful building. I'm so proud of it. But, you know, you get less proud when you see all the crime.
When they announced two weeks ago, 11 people killed, this over a weekend, I think they said 38 people shot, 11 people dead. And then you watch Pritzker get up and say, we've got crime under control. And I will say that Kash and the FBI did a good job. With a very light force, they went in and for the about four months Kash, yourself (ph) --
PATEL: Yes, sir.
TRUMP: -- they've been working on keeping crime down. They have brought the numbers down a little bit. But those are the easy numbers. You know, the first 20, 25 percent are the easy numbers. That's where it gets. Then you have to bring in the big forces, right? Which is what we always intended to do. But I think the FBI did a very good job. In particular, Memphis and Chicago, they brought it down a little bit, like 20 percent and 25 percent, right? I guess it's not so little, but we have a long way to go. We think Chicago is going to be next and we'll get to St. Louis also.
UNKNOWN: And on Charlie Kirk's assassination --
TRUMP: And New Orleans we want to get to, too.
UNKNOWN: Your FBI is investigating the potential role of left-wing organizations in the assassination. I'm wondering if you think if Charlie Kirk's assassin worked alone or he worked with --
TRUMP: I don't know. I mean, I can tell you he didn't work alone on the internet because it seems that he became radicalized on the internet. That's just by watching what -- the same things that you're watching and hearing. It looks like he became radicalized over the internet. And it seems like he has wonderful parents, born in a wonderful neighborhood, smart guy, great boards, great marks, great student.
[17:20:00]
And then something happened to him over a fairly short period of time. It looks like he was radicalized over the internet and is radicalized on the left. He's a left. A lot of problems with the left and they get protected. They shouldn't be protected, as you understand, I think very well from the tone of your question. Thank you very much.
UNKNOWN: Venezuela, sir, and then on Israel. First on Venezuela, what can you tell us about this Venezuelan boat that was taken out? And do you plan to provide proof that these were narco-terrorists who were on their way to the U.S.?
TRUMP: Well, we have proof. All you have to do is look at the cargo that was -- like it spattered all over the ocean. Big bags of cocaine and fentanyl all over the place. And it was -- plus we have recorded evidence that they were leaving. We've recorded them. It's very careful because we know you people would be after us. We're very careful. The military has been amazing. And General Cain showed me a little while ago the clip, but you could actually see it, but you don't have to see it because we have recorded proof and evidence.
We know what time they were leaving, when they were leaving, what they had, and all of the other things that you'd like to have. But we have noticed that there are no ships in the ocean anymore. We're seeing that there's like no ships, no, you know, when -- the first one we went, there were hundreds of boats. Now there are no boats. I wonder why.
Meaning no drugs are coming across, probably stopping some fishermen too. I mean, to be honest, if I were a fisherman, I wouldn't want to go fishing. Just a nice -- let's take a little trip because I'd say, man, if they -- maybe they think I have drugs downstairs, I don't want that. I think the fishing business probably been hurt, but no -- there are literally no boats. This was a boat and we were surprised to see it.
Now, what does that mean? That means there's no drugs coming by sea, but they do come by land. And you know what? We're telling the cartels right now, we're going to be stopping them too. When they come by land, we're going to be stopping them the same way we stopped the boats. And you'll see that, but maybe by talking about it a little bit, it won't happen. If it doesn't happen, that's good. But they killed 300,000 people in our country last year and we're not letting it happen anymore.
UNKNOWN: And then on Israel. Did Bibi Netanyahu speak to you directly to alert you that Israel was going to be striking --
TRUMP: No.
UNKNOWN: -- Hamas sites in Qatar.
TRUMP: No. No, he didn't. No, he didn't. Yeah, go ahead.
UNKNOWN: How did you learn of it?
TRUMP: The same way you did. Go ahead, please.
UNKNOWN: You mentioned that the shooter was radicalized online.
TRUMP: I think so. You know, by the way, when I say that, that's my opinion. I think he was radicalized online based on what they're saying.
UNKNOWN: Do social media companies bear any responsibility for that? And how --
TRUMP: I'm going to have to ask. I don't know. I'd ask Pam that question. I don't know if you or Todd could give an answer that somebody has to bear some responsibility.
PAM BONDI, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY GENERAL: You know, and President Trump, I've always told parents, you've got to watch what your kids are doing on the internet, what they're doing online, what they're listening to, what they're reading. They're all online. They're all on their phones all the time. Parents have got to monitor that because this starts when you're young. This starts when you're young when you listen to these groups, when you watch these shows and parents have got to just be vigilant.
So sure, that's part of it and they're meeting kids online who they think are kids and they can be anywhere in the world and talking to them and yeah, they are being radicalized.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: You know, he went bad and he just went bad very quickly in a sense because he sort of led a very normal life, a life of, you know, great education, schools, everything else, but somewhere along the line something happened. Yeah, please.
UNKNOWN: Thank you, Mr. President. How will you send the National Guard into Chicago without cooperation of the governor and mayor?
TRUMP: Well, if they do cooperate, that's good. If they don't, it's not going to matter to us at all. You know who wants to help us? Police department. They have no respect for the governor. They have no respect for the mayor. They respect us. And we found that in Washington, you know, we haven't had total support in Washington from government, as you know, from everybody. I don't want to say the mayor because she was better than most, but we haven't had great, great, but we have had great support from the Metropolitan Police.
They're like brothers of these people. They're really like brothers, you see that. They work together. And so if the governor wants to support, as I said to Bill, it's going to be his proudest moment, what he's going to do to the governor of Tennessee, what's going to happen with Memphis. And three, four weeks we'll stand together and we'll say, look at this, the crime has almost disappeared, maybe completely disappeared.
I mean, Washington, they don't even know how to record it because it's down so much. You know, they've never heard -- I heard 87 percent is down. I said, really? Who are the 13 percent? Because it's more than that. It's actually more hard to believe, right? You're going to have the same results in Chicago. And we hope we have the governor's help, but if we don't, we're doing it without him.
[17:25:02]
(CROSSTALK)
UNKNOWN: Mr. President, you the framework (inaudible) re-tune TikTok for example. Will China continue to have a stake in the company or will --
TRUMP: Well, we haven't decided that, but it looks to me, and I'm speaking to President Xi on Friday for confirmation of that, and you know, frankly, more importantly, a big deal. And we've had very good meetings. As you know, we were in Europe, our people, Scott Bessent and Jamieson, or Jamieson Greer and others, and it was a very big meeting with China.
And you know they're treating us with respect. We treat them with respect too. But it was very successful. And on top of it, we have what could be a very good deal. Don't forget, I've had more people say, could you try and keep TikTok alive? I use TikTok. I mean, I have to admit it in the election and look how I did with you. No Republicans come close. I blew everyone away. You know, if you look back not so long ago, Romney, he got like 7 percent of the youth. I got like eight times that amount. I got tremendous numbers of views.
By the way, I want to say Charlie helped me. And Charlie was the one -- get on TikTok. He used to say to me, get on TikTok. Charlie was unbelievable. So, probably -- and I did, I had somebody named TikTok Jack, and he put that camera, he said, just a real quick statements are like 10 seconds or less. They didn't like anything over 10 seconds, but it worked. But Charlie is the one that really, and my son Barron also. And I have to say, Don, Eric, the whole group, it's important.
And he can maybe even bring us closer to China. We had a very good meeting with John, I was surprised. I didn't expect it to that extent and I'm going to speak again with President Xi on Friday and I think that will confirm things up.
(CROSSTALK))
(END VIDEO)
TAPPER: All right, President Trump there, paying homage and remembering Charlie Kirk, the MAGA activist and podcast host who was a big supporter of his, talking about how Charlie Kirk helped him with TikTok. This after President Trump from signed a presidential memorandum established a task force to send federal enforcement agencies into Memphis, Tennessee. It is unclear when that stepped up enforcement will begin. We will continue to monitor the president's comments and if there's any news, we will bring that you, but let's get to the breaking news of the president reference in our "World Lead."
You heard him there. He was asked about his announcement of the U.S. military hit, exploded, hit with a missile presumably a boat allegedly being used by Venezuelan drug cartels. This is the second one in recent weeks. The president posting this video appearing to show the moment that the U.S. military hit this boat. CNN national security correspondent Natasha Bertrand is here with me. Natasha, this is now the second such strike by the U.S. on alleged drug cartel vessel. Tell us more.
NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: We really don't know a whole lot. Just like the first strike, we don't know, for example, what kind of munition was used. We don't know for sure how the U.S. was able to get the intelligence about who was actually on this boat and whether they could know for sure who was operating that boat and whether they were in fact even members of a drug cartel.
There is a lot that still needs to be disclosed about these military operations against these boats that are in the Caribbean because even when they were briefing Congress last week, the Department of Defense, they were not able to definitively tell lawmakers and staffers that the targets of these operations were definitively members of that drug cartel that the president has designated as a foreign terrorist organization, Tren de Aragua.
The whole argument that the administration is making here is that because These are alleged members of that drug cartel and because they were designated as foreign terrorist organizations, the president therefore has the authority to carry out operations against them. But we don't know even from President Trump's tweet today or his post on Truth Social, just who these people were in this boat. But the U.S. military has said repeatedly, and so has President Trump, that these operations are going to continue. The U.S. just sent 10 F-35 fighter jets down to Puerto Rico. They're
conducting exercises with the Marine Corps down there as well. Clearly, a lot of attempts to send a message here to the Venezuelans as well, but as you can see, this kind of kinetic action has not stopped and there are a ton of questions surrounding the legality of that particularly because as of right now, the president is really leaning on his Article II authority as president to carry out these kinds of attacks.
But experts are saying, look, we're not in an armed conflict with Tren De Aragua, with these drug cartels, so what really is the authority there to conduct these kinds of lethal operations against these people?
TAPPER: Yeah. You heard the president talk about how drugs have killed so many Americans and the other day I think he even used a figure like 300 million Americans which of course would be almost every American dead. Obviously, he misspoke. But beyond that is the question about the legal authority. Does that count in the kind of combat that Article 2 authority is supposed to be for? Natasha Bertrand, thanks so much.
[17:30:22]
Let's bring in Professor Rachel VanLandingham, retired U.S. Air Force JAG officer or military attorney. She's now a co-associate dean at Southwestern Law School in Los Angeles. Professor, I guess the simple question is, are these strikes legal? Who determines who's on these boats? It's not like he's taking out a military group that is posing a direct threat to the United States as we traditionally understand it.
LT. COL. RACHEL VANLANDINGHAM, AIR FORCE (RET.): Thank you, Jake. Thanks for having me. The lack of transparency by the administration when they're using lethal force in the American people's name in a very unique manner is deeply troubling. It sure looks like the President on his own accord is deciding to kill people extrajudicial -- judicially extrajudicial killings outside of an armed conflict, outside of war.
And there are really -- there's a binary here. The President can use lethal force, can kill people, either because they're posing an imminent deadly threat against Americans or -- or American interests, or we're at war and the --t he President has properly identified them as being a member of an armed group, either a military or some type of terrorist organization for which he has authority to -- to designate that we're at war against from Congress, and is killing them based on their status. And we really don't see evidence of -- of either.
He has declared that these individuals were -- were members of some narco terrorist organization, which is a criminal organization. And he's not applying criminal law that is the standard law enforcement use of force regarding why not just arrest them? Why not detain them and prosecute them in the U.S. court of law.
TAPPER: Right. Although the President did declare, Tren de Aragua, a terrorist group, a narco terrorist group in February, I suppose that that would be the justification for treating them the way that we, the United States treated ISIS or al-Qaeda. Obviously, we discussed a lot of issues like this during the Obama years, when he increased the use of drones to strike individuals like Anwar al-Awlaki, who the American born, I believe he was al-Qaeda cleric.
President Trump says the strike was in international waters. What is the jurisdictional argument there? Could he make the same argument anywhere in the world?
VANLANDINGHAM: Well, he can make an argument that we're at war against this group, but Congress didn't give him the authority just simply because he declared them a foreign terrorist organization that were actually in an armed conflict and therefore using law of war authorities.
There are peacetime law authorities that -- that exist and he's ex -- and he's exceeding those. That the authorization to use military force that Congress passed in the wake of 9/11 was stretched by -- by concurrent administrations, but it was stretched against groups such as ISIS that were engaging kinetic lethal operations against U.S. allies and U.S. interests.
These drug cartels, there's been no evidence that they're -- that yes, the -- the drug problem and fentanyl poisoning of the American people is atrocious, it's a national security threat, but it's a criminal problem. If we start just killing our way out of criminal problems, I don't see an end to that whatsoever.
And so the President cannot make up authorities whether or not it's here in the United States or internationally. Peacetime law enforcement authorities applied in those international waters unless we're at war. And I have not heard Congress say that we are at war against this organization, despite President Trump's labeling of them -- of them as such.
They can be arrested, prosecuted, but not just murdered in cold blood. And that's what the President is doing in our name.
TAPPER: All right. Very interesting stuff. Fascinating debate. Professor Rachel VanLandingham, thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate it.
Also in our World Lead, it's been exactly 30 days since the Trump- Putin summit in Alaska. The Kremlin today said there's been no progress, none toward a new trilateral summit among Russia, Ukraine, and the United States. You might recall 30 days ago, the red carpet was literally rolled out by our service members for Vladimir Putin in Anchorage. President Trump warning ahead of time of serious consequences if Putin did not agree to an immediate ceasefire.
Not only did Putin not agree, since that red carpet, Russia had bombed Kyiv on August 28th, the second biggest aerial attack on the Ukrainian capital since the start of the war, 23 people killed, including three children. Buildings belonging to the European Union were hit.
Then on September 7th, Russia launched its largest ever drone assault in Ukraine, hitting government buildings for the first time. And just last week, of course, Russia drones flew into Poland, which is a member of NATO. They were shot down by NATO fighter jets and air defenses.
All this as Russia claims that it is making gains on the front lines in the Donetsk and Zaporizhzhia claims that Ukrainian President Zelenskyy calls, quote, misplaced. Let's bring on Ivo Daalder, former U.S. ambassador to NATO and current senior fellow at Harvard's Belfer Center.
[17:35:12]
Ambassador Daalder, in his statement today, the Kremlin spokesperson indicated not only has there been no progress towards a meeting among the U.S., Ukraine and -- and Russia, he said there was a, quote, pause in the negotiation process regarding the war. Do you think this is ever going to happen?
IVO DAALDER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO: I'm afraid it's going to be a long time before we see serious negotiations. I think the mistake, original mistake, was made by President Trump to invite Vladimir Putin to come to the United States to meet him with the red carpet on U.S. soil. This is an indicted war colonel who's been indicted for removing 20,000 children from Ukraine. He met him. He sat down with him for three hours.
He said there were all kinds of agreements and major breakthroughs. But what we really know happened is that Vladimir Putin took a measure of Donald Trump and said, Trump is not going to hurt me. He's not going to impose sanctions. He's not going to help Ukraine. I can continue to do this war in the way that I want to do. And he has escalated ever since.
You mentioned the escalation, the drone strikes on the European Union headquarters, drone strikes and missile strikes on a U.S. factory, the way into the west of Ukraine, the targeting of the prime minister's office and other government offices, and then, most astonishingly, sending, with full intent, 19 drones across the border of a NATO country, Poland, in order to test the alliance whether it could defend itself, which it did.
And secondly, and probably more importantly, whether it could -- would remain united. And it didn't, because the President of the United States said this is probably a mistake. It was no mistake. And I think that -- that Putin has decided he can fight this war and the United States will let him.
TAPPER: And -- and President Trump, in fact, in -- in recent social media posts, has said that the war was Biden's and Zelenskyy and also suggested that Ukraine started the war. Poland today suggested that NATO establish a no-fly zone over Ukraine to protest against Russian drones. This, obviously, after the Russian drones went into Polish airspace last week and were shot down. What -- what do you think of that idea of a no-fly zone over Ukraine?
DAALDER: I think the idea of NATO protecting itself far forward to make sure that whatever missiles and -- and drones are coming towards it, that those be hit over Ukraine is a good idea. I think the time has come for NATO not only to defend itself against those missiles and those threats, which we now know possibly can hit NATO territory, but at the same time to provide some kind of protection to the Ukrainians who are facing massive barrages of missiles and drones each and every night against their -- their cities, killing civilians and all kinds of things.
Defending against those drones is not getting involved in a war against Russia. It is just helping Ukraine, making sure it can defend itself against an attack, against the war that was started not by Mr. Zelenskyy, not by Mr. Biden, not by anybody else except Vladimir Putin. He started it. He knows how to end it. It can end tomorrow if he stops shooting it and withdraws his troops from Ukraine.
TAPPER: And a reminder, an open invitation to not only President Trump and Vice President Vance, but to Secretary of State Rubio and Secretary of War Pete Hegseth to come on the program to give the different point of view from what we just heard from former U.S. Ambassador to NATO. Ivo Daalder, thank you so much, Ambassador.
[17:38:48]
Moments ago at the White House, we heard President Trump speak about the suspect in that horrific assassination of Charlie Kirk. He said the 22-year-old in custody appeared to have been radicalized online. We also need to discuss the heightened security environment for lawmakers in the wake of the killing. We're going to do all that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TAPPER: Back with our Politics Lead, in the partisan fallout after the Charlie Kirk assassination. We have guests from both parties here. Gentlemen, I want to note here that Vice President J.D. Vance hosted the podcast of his friend, Charlie Kirk. I want to play something that the Vice President said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And while our side of the aisle certainly has its crazies, it is a statistical fact that most of the lunatics in American politics today are proud members of the far left.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: All right, so I was curious as to what he was referring to. And the vice president's office sent me this YouGov poll that suggests it says, it's true that liberal Americans are more likely than conservatives to defend feeling joy about the deaths of political opponents, 16 percent of liberals say it's unusually or always acceptable, 24 percent of those who say their ideology is very liberal, 10 percent who are very liberal -- not very liberal. So it's and it's only 4 percent of conservatives, 7 percent are moderate. So that's what he was referring to. I should also note just in the definition of what most of the lunatics in American politics means that if you look at a 2021 study in criminology, criminal justice, law and society, the overall prevalence and deadliness of far right extremism, far -- far outweighs that of the far left. And same thing with the 2022 study from the Maryland Department of Criminology and Criminal Justice, that right wing and Islamic extremists are a bigger threat in the United States. So I guess it all just depends on how you define lunatics. Does this serve anybody to be talking about which side is worse?
CHUCK ROCHA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: No, I'll tell you this. I've done this for 35 years. I've run campaigns a long time. I've earned all this white hair on my face and I'll promise you, I'll promise the Americans out there, there's been crazy folks out there for a long time, but the Internet has really amplified it to a whole another level. It's my job. People pay me money every day to beat Republicans.
[17:45:07]
That means I don't want anything to happen to my friends, Shermichael. It's my job to have a debate about policy and try to hope my side wins. What you're seeing on the Internet and I think what the Vice President is alluding to is there's people out there that I don't think are associated with either party, but factions of something on the Internet that are saying hateful and horrible things on the Internet that they should not be saying. And we should have an open debate.
And what disappoints me the most is that the Vice President can take this opportunity to say, let's figure out what we have in common and talk about that.
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, I'm a bit surprised by the number of people that I have seen on social media, hell, even my own personal social media applauding the murder of Charlie Kirk.
TAPPER: People you follow?
SINGLETON: Oh, yes. And I have unfollowed people, unfriended people on Facebook. And look, everybody -- everyone's entitled to their freedom of speech. But -- but to celebrate someone being murdered is just disgusting and gross to me. And -- and I think people sometimes forget, Jake, the idea of freedom of speech isn't to just defend the freedoms or the words that you like or the opinions that you like.
TAPPER: Sure.
SINGLETON: It's also for the most abhorrent if it is your perspective that someone else's view --
TAPPER: Yes, of course.
SINGLETON: -- it's to defend that as well. And -- and the question for me becomes for many of the people that I've seen on social media, if you -- if you want to say certain conservatives shouldn't have a right to certain phrases or certain themes, orally speaking, that is, in terms of defending that --
TAPPER: Yes.
SINGLETON: -- then what's to stop someone 10 years, 20 years, 30 years in the future to say, you know what? Your progressivism goes too far.
TAPPER: Right.
SINGLETON: And people don't consider that.
TAPPER: Without question, there's a lot of just insanely hateful stuff of people celebrating the -- the murder --
SINGLETON: You see it on X.
TAPPER: -- of a fellow -- of a fellow human being. On the subject, though, of being able to speak your mind, I mean, I guess freedom of speech is not freedom of consequences, right?
ROCHA: Sure.
TAPPER: So people say things and they get fired. There are two people in the media that I just want to talk about. "MSNBC" fired political analyst Matthew Dowd and issued an apology after he said on air, quote, hateful thoughts lead to hateful words, which ultimately lead to hateful actions, basically seeming to, although he later apologized and -- and denied he meant to say this, seeming to blame Charlie Kirk for what happened to him.
And Karen Attiah, says "The Washington Post," fired her as global opinions editor for a series of social media posts, one of which said, quote, part of what keeps America so violent is the insistence that people perform care, empty goodness and absolution for white men who espouse hatred and violence.
She hadn't referenced Charlie Kirk by name, but she also said to a commentator that, quote, refusing to tear my clothes and smear ashes on my face and performative mourning for a white man that espoused violence is not the same as violence. "The Post" declined to comment on personnel.
SINGLETON: I don't even know why that was necessary to say. Just -- just don't say anything. If you have nothing positive to say about Charlie Kirk, maybe you do not like any of the positions that he took and argued for. That's -- that's perfectly fine. Our system permits that. But don't say anything. This is a guy who was literally murdered for giving his opinions.
TAPPER: Yes.
SINGLETON: And again, I go back to my initial premise. What's to stop someone else from saying her writings went too far or Matthew Dowd's commentary?
TAPPER: Well --
SINGLETON: Or my commentary on CNN goes too far.
TAPPER: But they both --
SINGLETON: -- stop someone from saying that.
TAPPER: Well, I mean, obviously people thought they went too far because they both got fired.
SINGLETON: But I mean, committing violent --
TAPPER: Right, right. Which obviously no one wants.
SINGLETON: You certainly don't want.
TAPPER: Right.
SINGLETON: But again, I beg to question if you're going to open this Pandora's box of saying this person's words went too far, who's to stop the next person from saying your words go too far? Just no one's considering.
TAPPER: And just to clarify, you're saying words go too far. Therefore, violence is coming --
SINGLETON: Correct.
TAPPER: Yes. Not consequences in terms of firing. Chuck, it isn't just people in the media. Obviously, we've been seeing this all over teachers, nurses, this and that, Delta Airlines, American Airlines, United Airlines have suspended workers for social media posts about -- about Charlie Kirk being assassinated. On Saturday, the secretary of transportation, Sean Duffy posted, quote, American Airlines pilots who were caught celebrating the assassination of Charlie Kirk have been immediately grounded and removed from service.
We heal as a country when we send the message that glorifying political violence is completely unacceptable. American Airlines simply says hate related or hostile behavior runs contrary to our purpose, which is to care for people on life's journey. What do you think?
ROCHA: I think it's a fine line. I disagree with everything that Charlie Cook stood -- Charlie Kirk stood for. And I talked about it for an hour on my podcast of how you could do that. He did what was right. Charlie Kirk did. He would go to the square of a university or a town square and have debate with people, not have fist to cuss, but have word debate. Let's talk about your difference in your opinion of mine.
What these private companies are doing, though, with folks who I think that what these folks are saying is deplorable in every sense of when you celebrate somebody's death. But again, I am not a scholar of the Constitution, but I'll tell you that there's been a lot of conservatives in my life, no matter what outlandish things conservatives might have said online would defend free speech. That's why I think this is a slippery slope. SINGLETON: I mean I would defend free speech, but I would also say when you see teachers, nurses, doctors taking these positions, if you're a conservative, then conservatives are now wondering, well, if I go in to see my medical professional, will they give me the same care? If I'm sending my children to school to be educated, will I assure that the educator is going to be objective and not biased and educating my child over the child of a liberal parent? That's what conservatives are considering here.
[17:50:17]
TAPPER: Yes. The other thing is it puts their employers in a tough spot because they're a corporation with a public brand, whether it's a school or an airline.
ROCHA: Yes.
TAPPER: Stick around, we're going to have you back in the next hour to continue the conversation. I want to continue the conversation with a congressional Republican. He's been in on meetings about security in the wake of Charlie Kirk's assassination, and we're going to bring him in on this next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TAPPER: We're turning to our Politics Lead, at long last a big-name Democrat, statewide Democrat in New York, is endorsing New York mayoral nominee, Democratic nominee Zohran Mamdani. The governor of New York, Kathy Hochul, came out for Mamdani over the weekend, writing in "The New York Times" quote, affordability has long been my top priority as governor, and it is the number-one concern I share with Mr. Mamdani. Like we said, Hochul is the very first big-name New York Democrat to back Mamdani.
[17:55:11]
Neither House Democratic leader, Hakeem Jeffries, nor Senate Democratic leader, Chuck Schumer, are yet on board. Joining us now is New York Republican Congressman Mike Lawler. Congressman, I presume you're not here to endorse Mamdani. What do you make of what you're seeing on the Democratic side in your state ahead of the New York mayoral election? Why do you think Gillibrand, Schumer, Jeffries have not endorsed Mamdani?
REP. MIKE LAWLER (R-NY): Well, in the case of Leader Jeffries and Leader Schumer, I think it's because they recognize in swing districts in New York and across the country, and in the states that will determine control of the Senate, Zohran Mamdani will be a uniquely unpopular face of the Democratic Party as mayor of New York City.
I mean, he will make Bill de Blasio look like Margaret Thatcher. So the fact is, you have people like Tom Suozzi already coming out and saying they will not support Zohran Mamdani, even though he represents a district that includes part of Queens in New York City.
And, you know, obviously, pushing back against the idea of having a socialist, and that's not my words, that's his words, he calls himself a socialist, who espouses views of defunding the police, shutting down prisons, wanting government-run grocery stores, banning private property ownership. These are, you know, stated policy positions. Now, he may try to backpedal and softpedal some of these positions in the final stretch of the mayoral campaign, but these are clear positions and views that he has long espoused and talked about extensively during his time in elected office.
TAPPER: Let me take the opportunity to extend an invitation to Mr. Mamdani to come on The Lead. We've been trying to get him on now for quite some time. Come on in, the water's warm. Moving on to other issues, Congressman. Obviously, after the horrific assassination of Charlie Kirk, I have to imagine there are a lot of security concerns in addition to just the emotion, the fraught emotions so many people feel. What is the mood like up on Capitol Hill?
LAWLER: Well, first, let me express my condolences to his wife, Erika, and their two beautiful children. You know, I have a three-year-old and a 10-month-old, and last week when I watched the video and -- and saw what happened, I mean, it really just made me nauseous on a human level, but, you know, also as a father to -- to see that these two children are not going to have their father, all because he was allowing for and promoting the free exchange of ideas and robust debate in the public square.
That is what our country was founded on. That is the view and the ideals that this nation was built on, to allow for a free exchange of ideas, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and he was murdered for it, brutally assassinated in the public view. And every American, regardless of your political affiliation, should be outraged by that, in the same way we should be outraged at what happened in Minnesota with the death of the former speaker or the attempt to burn down the governor's mansion in Pennsylvania or the assassination attempts against Donald Trump. It is unacceptable.
And, you know, to all of my colleagues, you know, the old adage goes, when you point the finger, there's three pointing back at you. All of us have a responsibility to recognize our own rhetoric and the -- and the words that we use to describe the opposition. You know, right now, obviously, Republicans have complete control of Washington. And some of the words that have been used from fascist to racist to we're at war and we need to fight it in the streets with weapons. I mean, enough, enough.
Everybody has to recognize, duke it out on the merits of the ideas. Duke it out at the ballot box. Stop dehumanizing each other to the point where individuals are taking action because you tell them that if they don't take action, our democracy is over. It's enough already. It's got to stop.
TAPPER: I mean, we -- I have heard, and I don't feel like I need to get into any names other than President Trump, but I -- I have heard a lot of Republicans saying that this is entirely a left wing problem. You just obviously pointed out that it's not with the attempted killings of Governor Shapiro and the successful horrific killings in Minnesota of the legislators there. What are your thoughts on the fact that there are a lot of big name Republicans saying that this is entirely a left wing problem when -- when obviously it's not.
[18:00:06]
This is seems, it's -- it's first of all, it's a -- it's a problem on the extremes. It's radicals on the right and left. But second of all, this really does feel like a -- like a national problem given just the sick celebrations of Charlie Kirk's death we're seeing online as well. LAWLER: Look, I think obviously you can go incident by incident and each side can point the fingers and say the other is responsible. My point is that across this nation we need to do a better job of uplifting the debate and the discussion. Every elected official in this country, from Congress to the President to every, all the way down to dog catcher, has a responsibility with the words that they use and the way that they talk about these issues and the way that they talk about the debate.
We need to have robust debate. That's why we have a democracy. That's why we have a constitutional Republican. If we all agreed on everything, then there would be no reason to have this type of government. You could just have a dictatorship. But that's not what we, the American people want. And so we duke it out. And sometimes your side wins and sometimes it doesn't. But the bottom line here is everybody needs to take accountability.
And I would just implore all of my colleagues and yes, Republicans right now are in the majority. And so Democrats feel this -- this urge to obviously speak out and push back against this decisions that are being made here. But all of us collectively have a responsibility to recognize the words that we use. Stop calling everybody a fascist, stop calling everybody a dictator. Duke it out in the -- in the public domain with respect to the ideas and the policies and then take it to the people for a vote.
But beyond that, stop with these calls for, you know, violence or action or we're at war and we need to use, you know, weapons at the bar fight. If you go look at some of the rhetoric that has been used over these past nine months, it's horrific. It's got to stop.
TAPPER: Congressman Mike Lawler, Republican of New York, thank you so much for your time, sir. Appreciate it.
LAWLER: Thank you.
