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The Lead with Jake Tapper
Ousted CDC Head Says RFK Jr. is Putting Public Health at Risk; Trump Attends State Dinner in U.K. With King Charles; Democrats Threaten Shutdown Over Key Obamacare Extension. ABC: Network Pulls Jimmy Kimmel's Show "Indefinitely" After Comedian's Remarks About Charlie Kirk's Killer. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired September 17, 2025 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to the lead. I'm Jake Tapper.
This hour the fired CDC director making her case, what she says about her disagreements with the Health and Human Services secretary, RFK Jr., and why some Republicans insist that she is not telling the truth.
[18:00:09]
Plus, in an already politically charged climate, a black student in Mississippi was found dead, hanged. What authorities are saying about the death.
Also, President Trump's attempt to paint mortgage fraud claims on a top prosecutor who once prosecuted him. How's that going over?
And Superstar Dave Matthews is here on The Lead. Why he says he's singing for farmers at Farm Aid this weekend to make sure their voices are heard.
Our Lead tonight, ousted CDC Director Susan Monarez squared off with U.S. senators on Capitol Hill today, giving her side of the story about why she was fired just after 29 days after taking the (INAUDIBLE) story, which is at odds with the one being told by her former boss, HHS Secretary RFK Jr.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. SUSAN MONAREZ, FORMER CDC DIRECTOR: He told me he could not trust me. He told me he could not trust me because I had shared information related to our conversation beyond his staff. I told him, if you cannot trust me, then you can fire me.
ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., HHS SECRETARY: I told her that she had to resign because I asked her, are you a trustworthy person? And she said, no.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: While all of the Democrats in the Senate voted against confirming Monarez, it was Republicans who turned up the heat today. Not only did Republican Senator from Oklahoma Markwayne Mullin accuse the fired CDC director of being dishonest, he suggested that he had proof.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARKWAYEN MULLIN (R-OK): It was a recorded meeting. You've been really walking around the edges and not being truthful. So, did he ask you the question, can he trust you? And your answer was?
MONAREZ: He told me he could not trust me. And I told him if he could not trust me, he could fire me.
MULLIN: That isn't how that conversation went.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: The ousted CDC director also warned that her clashes with RFK Jr. over vaccine policies could have serious consequences for public health.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MONAREZ: I believe preventable diseases will return, and I believe that we will have our children harmed.
I worry about the ramifications for those children in illness and in death. I worry about our school systems. I worry about our medical institutions having to take care of sick kids that could have been prevented by effective and safe vaccines. I worry about the future of trust in public health.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: And that led to this heated exchange with Republican Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY): The burden is upon you and the people you wouldn't fire to prove to us that we need to give our six-month-old a COVID vaccine and that we need to give our one-day-old a hepatitis B vaccine. That's what the debate ought to be about. Not whether all vaccines are good or whether we live in Alice in the Wonderland.
MONAREZ: I actually agree with you and I was open to the science. I just would not pre-commit to approving all the ACIP recommendations without the science.
PAUL: Untrue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Joining us down to discuss, Republican Senator Roger Marshall of Kansas. He worked as a physician and obstetrician before being elected to Congress and was also at today's hearing. Thanks so much for being here, Senator. I appreciate you. So, you just. Senator Mullin say that there's a recording of this meeting that led to Dr. Monarez's ouster. He seems to suggest that he heard the recording. Have you heard the recording?
SEN. ROGER MARSHALL (R-KS): No, not at all. And I don't think that's the real reason she was fired. I think the real reason she's fired is that philosophically she wanted to go in a different direction than Secretary Kennedy. Look, Secretary Kennedy is not an anti-vaxxer, but he doesn't believe that every person needs every vaccine. But Dr. Monarez, as I listened to her today, is that she believes every person needs every vaccine, that every child needs all 76 jabs. And I think that's where the break is. It's more of a philosophical look at things beyond the who said, who said what?
TAPPER: You asked Dr. Monarez is if she agreed that her differences with RFK Jr. meant she wasn't the right person for the job, and here's what she told you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MONAREZ: So, I will stand behind scientific integrity with every decision I ever make. If I am put in a position of having to say, I will cede scientific integrity to retain my job, then I am not the right person for the position.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: So, what she said earlier that we ran the clip was that her mind was open to what Kennedy was talking about, but she just wanted to see the science before making any decisions. Don't you want that in a CDC director, somebody whose mind is open but also wants to make decisions based on science?
MARSHALL: Of course, and we wish that's what she was doing. But I think that she's continuing to contribute to the vaccine hesitancy out there.
[18:05:00]
TAPPER: You think she is?
MARSHALL: I do. I absolutely think the CDC is the problem here. They're the one that created the vaccine hesitancy starting with the COVID vaccines by lying to us about them, and then continuing the myth, whether it was monkeypox or them manipulating data on COVID vaccines and cardiomyotis (ph), those types of things.
I think that her insistence that every child needs all 76 jabs, that every child at one day of age needs a hepatitis vaccine, continues to create vaccine hesitancy. Of course, we want to follow the science, but they have no idea what the hepatitis vaccine is doing to the immune system of a one-day-old.
TAPPER: Well, RFK Jr. has been lying about vaccines for 20 years and saying things demonstrably untrue. So, I would argue that he certainly has contributed as well. But let's talk about what you just brought up, the hepatitis B vaccine, because you've questioned if every child needs every vaccine, including that.
I want to play what Republican Senator and Chair of the Committee and also fellow physician Bill Cassidy said specifically about the hepatitis B vaccine.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BILL CASSIDY (R-LA): Now, fewer than 20 babies per year get hepatitis B from their mother. That is an accomplishment to make America healthy again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: His argument was that before the vaccine, before hepatitis B vaccine, it was a real problem. And then once the vaccine was introduced, the deaths from hepatitis and infection from hepatitis went down 20 percent. He's more of an expert on hepatitis B than anybody in this room that I know of, including you, even though you're a doctor. What's your reaction?
MARSHALL: Well, I think I'm more of an expert on during the pregnancy.
TAPPER: Sure.
MARSHALL: So, we test every pregnant woman for hepatitis antigens. And then we -- I get to know this patient. As long as they have a negative hepatitis screen, they're not doing I.V. drugs, they're not living with someone that has hepatitis, the chances of that baby having hepatitis are zero unless you're going to go put that baby in a sandbox where there's used I.V. needles.
There are people that need the hepatitis vaccine. I'm just saying not a one-day-old and not every baby does if we don't know the hepatitis status of the mom, if it's a patient that hasn't got prenatal care, it's a person that's doing drugs, of course, that baby needs the hepatitis vaccine. I have to have faith that a mom and a dad and a doctor can discuss every vaccine, the pros and cons and the risks and benefits of it. I just think that one day is way too early and probably don't need that unless like you're going into nursing or you're going into medical school. There needs to be a reason for it, that the benefits don't necessarily outweigh the risk.
TAPPER: I don't doubt that you, as an obstetrician in Kansas, knew very well what was going on with your patients. I don't doubt that for one second. But as a general matter, not every person who is an I.V. drug user is honest with their physician about it and this is proven to have saved lives. I mean, why would you go against what the American Academy at Pediatrics says? Why would you go against what the AMA says?
MARSHALL: Look, you know, we're doing random drug tests on mom. I'm getting to know these patients. Trust me, if they were doing I.V. drugs, I would know it by the end of their pregnancy.
TAPPER: I'm saying, I don't question your practice. I'm saying, but like this is a country of 350 million people. Not everybody knows what's going on with every patient.
MARSHALL: And then that's my point. So, if they're at risk, then give them the hepatitis vaccine.
TAPPER: But they know that they're at risk.
MARSHALL: Of course, you do. Absolutely, I know who is at risk.
TAPPER: I said, you do. I'm saying not every physician knows about every patient.
MARSHALL: If you have someone you, you don't know, of course that's the person that needs the hepatitis vaccine. But at some point in time we have to practice medicine. The CDC doesn't practice medicine. They make recommendations. But what we've gotten to is like the CDC is a gospel. And when you try to -- trust me, if you try to sit down with young parents today and tell them, this is why your child needs this hepatitis vaccine, it doesn't make sense to them, and then it creates vaccine hesitancy.
Look, I believe in the polio vaccine, MMR the DTAP, those have told the test of time. The benefits clearly outweigh the risk, but no one can really show me that the benefits of the hepatitis vaccine outweigh their risk to give to every single child.
TAPPER: Well, I think Dr. Cassidy, your fellow senator, would disagree with you very strongly, and he could probably show you. But that's all the time we have.
Senator Marshall, it's great to have you here.
MARSHALL: My pleasure.
TAPPER: Good to see you. We're going to turn to another major story in our World Lead where moments ago at Windsor Castle, President Trump and First Lady Melania Trump, dying at a state dinner hosted by the royal family. This followed a day of ceremonial events, including a carriage ride, a flyover by the Red Arrows, that's the Royal Air Force Aerobatic Team, and laying a wreath at Queen Elizabeth's crypt.
CNN's Kaitlan Collins is live for us in London. Kaitlan, tell us more.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jake, obviously a day full of pageantry for the president, no surprise there. But I should note that when it came to that inspection of the Guard of Honor earlier, one of the largest military ceremonies that has ever been had at that has ever happened at a state visit for a visiting head of state here in the U.K., and all of that is meant to impress President Trump.
[18:10:01]
And, certainly, you saw it ending with that lavish state dinner that happened tonight. Jake, we actually got a preview of that state dinner before the banquet got underway here tonight. There was about 160 guests who were in the room. And as we were walking around, looking at all the name cards, seeing who was seated next to whom with the president next to the king and next to Princess Kate, of course, and then across from him First Lady Melania Trump next to the queen and Prince William, one name that stood out to all of the reporters in that room was Rupert Murdoch, because, obviously, he's no stranger to state dinners.
But to have him in the same room at the same table with President Trump, as he is engaged in that major legal battle with him over The Wall Street Journal's reporting on Jeffrey Epstein and that birthday book was quite notable. I mean, Trump is suing him and wants $20 billion in damages, and also Rupert Murdoch's testimony, which so far his legal team has resisted. And so just some interesting dynamics here at play, Jake, as all of this is going on.
Obviously, the British prime minister is also at this dinner and he and President Trump will have their day tomorrow for all the business meetings, the agenda side of this, before holding a press conference to close out this visit here in the U.K.
TAPPER: And while the Trumps are getting the royal treatment at Windsor Castle, a pretty large crowd turned out in London to protest President Trump's visit.
COLLINS: Yes, no surprise there, Jake. I mean, we saw this in 2019 during his last state visit, which was happening at Buckingham Palace when the queen was still alive. I should note, though, it's not really clear how much of the protest the president has seen. We are sitting here at Windsor, just outside of London, to the west of London. There were some protests behind us earlier. They were loud at times, but, you know, inside the walls of Windsor, it's not clear that they could actually hear them. And I should note, you know, you saw those protests in London, the president and the first lady actually choppered here earlier today. So, it's not even clear that they really got to see those protests then.
So, yes, the protests had been all out in full force. Whether or not they've registered with President Trump is not totally clear, Jake.
TAPPER: All right. Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much. And Kaitlan's going to have much more from London on her show, The Source with Kaitlan Collins, live from foggy London Town this evening. That's tonight at 9:00 Eastern only on CNN.
A Democratic senator's going to join me next. Why she says, many Americans might see sticker shock on their healthcare premiums if her party does not hold the line. We'll let her explain what she's talking about, coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:15:00]
TAPPER: And we're back with live images from York, Pennsylvania, where authorities, including Governor Josh Shapiro, are due to give an update on a police-involved shooting in which multiple police officers were injured, according to a source. We're going to bring you that news conference as soon as it begins.
But until then in our Health Lead, Obamacare remains the key to dodging a government shutdown this month. And Democrats in Congress say they're going to hold the line and refuse to vote to fund the government unless Republicans extend Affordable Care Act or Obamacare subsidies that lower monthly premiums for millions of Americans and are set to expire at the end of this year.
Joining us now to discuss, Democratic Senator Jeanne Shaheen of New Hampshire. Senator, thanks for joining us.
So, Leader Schumer endured a lot of blowback from the party last time there was a government shutdown on the table because he voted to keep the government open when Republicans needed Democratic votes. Is it different now? Is Democrats are definitely going to risk a shutdown if these Obamacare subsidies are not part of the package to keep the government open?
SEN. JEANNE SHAHEEN (D-NH): Look, I think it's in everyone's interest. Republicans, Democrats, independents, the country's interest to keep the government open. But it's also in everyone's interest to ensure that those people who need healthcare can get the healthcare when they need it at a cost they can afford. And that's what we're talking about when we're talking about extending this program of what we call enhanced premium tax credits that's been in place since COVID, to help families be able to afford the cost of healthcare, to be able to be part of the marketplace under the Affordable Care Act.
And these credits are set to expire at the end of the year. We had a chance in the president's big, beautiful, what I call betrayal, where we kicked a bunch of people -- millions of people off Medicaid because of that bill, and we also said we weren't going to extend these subsidies to help families afford health insurance.
And so we just had a report come out from the Congressional Budget Office saying that there is urgency to do this. Because if we do it now, we're going to keep a million and a half more people from losing their health insurance. If we wait until December, not only is it going to be the 4 million that we're projecting now, plus the million and a half, it's going to cost the government another $10 billion.
And for the average family who's in the marketplace for the Affordable Care Act, they're going to see their premiums go up over 75 percent. So, a lot of people are going to lose, they're going to get off because they can't afford it.
TAPPER: So, about this effort from Senate Democrats, the Senate majority leader, Republican John Thune, told our colleague, Ted Barrett, earlier today, quote, we're trying to get this place back to normal and these guys are trying to take a hostage here to do a whole bunch of stuff that can't be done on a short-term funding resolution, unquote.
Both Senator Thune, the Republican leader of the Senate, and House Speaker Johnson say there's time after the funding deadline to address these subsidies, which will still be before open enrollment in November. What's your response to that?
SHAHEEN: Well, there are a lot of ways to get this done. We could, in fact, put it on a continuing resolution, if there was agreement to do that. We could do it as a separate piece of legislation as part of the addressing the premium tax credits. We could put it on the defense bill because that's moving. So, there are a lot of ways to get this done. The question is, is there a willingness and a commitment to get it done.
And I think. Well, many of my Republican colleagues are beginning to hear from is their constituents who are getting those rate increases projected from their insurance companies.
[18:20:04]
And, you know, we've already had two of the president's pollsters say, this is a real problem for the Republicans if they don't fix this.
TAPPER: Do you worry at all about the politics when it comes to Senate Democrats being blamed for a government shutdown, especially if the subsidies extension also fails to pass?
SHAHEEN: Well, as I said, there are a lot of ways to get this done. We're not negotiating this in public. We have a couple of weeks now between now and the end of this fiscal year to come up with an agreement. I would hope that saner heads will prevail and that we will be willing to sit down and negotiate an extension because it is not in anyone's interest, as I said, either to have a government shutdown or to have millions of people lose their health insurance.
That's not good for companies in this country who are trying to keep workers healthy and at work. It's not good for the long-term investments that we need to make in America. So, we need to fix this. We need to work together to do that.
TAPPER: Democratic Senator, pardon me, Jeanne Shaheen of the Granite State, the great state of New Hampshire, thank you so much.
And be sure to watch Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer on Erin Burnett Outfront right after this program coming up right in the next hour right here on CNN.
We are standing by to hear from authorities in Central Pennsylvania after a shooting involving police. A source telling us that multiple officers were injured. We are expecting the governor, Josh Shapiro, to also make remarks. We're going to bring you that when it begins.
We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TAPPER: Bringing you a live look from York County, Pennsylvania. Authorities, including Governor Shapiro, are about to talk about this shooting involving police officers. Let's listen in.
COL. CHRISTOPHER PARIS, COMMISSIONER, PENNSYLVANIA STATE POLICE: I'm going to address you this evening concerning a critical incident that has rocked the community here in York County this afternoon. The incident occurred in Codorus Township, York County. I'd like to preemptively say that there are many details, which at this point we are not prepared to release given the ongoing nature of the investigation. That having been said, we would like to advise the community that there is no current active threat.
The situation today involved law enforcement officers who were shot. I can confirm that the shooter is dead. I can confirm that there were five law enforcement officers who were shot today, three fatally, two that were transported here to WellSpan in York. They're currently listed in critical but stable condition.
The district attorney of York County, who is no stranger to this community or in collaborating with the Pennsylvania State Police, Tim Barker, I've spoken to him. The Pennsylvania State Police has been asked to convene a major case team to conduct the lead in this investigation with the assistance and in collaboration and in partnership with the York County district attorney. I can assure you that all of the resources of the Pennsylvania State Police are being brought to bear. There is still very much an active scene at Codorus Township, York County.
Later this evening, the district attorney will have more information to release. I can tell you that the Pennsylvania State Police have taken over calls for service for the Northern York Regional Police Department and we will continue to do so to support our partners. I can tell you that I've spoken to the special agent in charge of the FBI out of Philadelphia, our municipal partners and county partners here in York County, and we've received multiple offers of assistance from our fellow state partners to include New Jersey and York. But we have a very large investigative scene.
In being here today with our law enforcement family for the second time in 2025, I'd just like to say on a very personal note, our hearts and prayers go out to them, to the families of the deceased and the families of those officers who were wounded.
[18:25:13]
There are simply no words that I can offer to assuage the grief that this community has experienced and, unfortunately, will continue to experience. The grief will be unbearable, but we will bear it.
So, we stand here today united for our partners all across the law enforcement spectrum, and we will not rest until we've conducted a full, fair, competent, and thorough investigation into this matter.
Lastly, I would simply ask to the community here in York County and beyond all across Pennsylvania and all across our nation, if you could keep the families that were touched by this tragedy today in your thoughts and prayers, please give them a solemn thought. And to the women and men who are working diligently right now to push this incident forward and the investigation forward and the aftermath that will have to be dealt with and persevered through, our hearts and prayers are with them. Thank you very much. I'll now turn it over to Governor Shapiro.
GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO (D-PA): This is an absolutely tragic and devastating day for York County and for the entire Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Grieve for the loss of life for three precious souls who served this county, served this commonwealth, and served this country, and we continue to pray for the full recovery of those who are dealing with their wounds.
This, of course, is on the heels of just a few months ago when we lost another York County son, Officer Duarte, again, gave his life in the line of service.
I had the opportunity with the lieutenant governor and with Senator Phillips Hill, Representative Grove and your three county commissioners to spend some time with the families of those who've been impacted by this violence today.
I think it's important for you to know that these families who are dealing with, they're grieving right now and they're suffering right now, took time to tell us how proud they were -- how proud they are -- pardon me, how proud they are of their loved ones who put on a uniform to keep us safe.
It's an extraordinary thing that these law enforcement families do. They support the individual who puts on the uniform and runs toward danger. They're there for them when they leave in the morning, and they pray throughout the day that they will come home at night.
So, I hope as this community comes together, as I know it knows how to do, and praise that we think not just about those who wear the uniform, but those who stand behind and next to those who wear the uniform every day, these families are extraordinary and I hope you'll join me in prayer for them.
I had some time to spend with the law enforcement who are gathered here today who ran here because they knew that their brothers in uniform were in danger, or their lives were cut short. And I'll just share with you what I told them. The entire Commonwealth of Pennsylvania respects them and we have their backs. And we so appreciate the work that they do every single day when they go out to keep us safe, when they go out to protect our freedoms and our rights. This is something that, sadly, we only tend to share in times of tragedy. I think it is important that this Commonwealth knows that every day we appreciate those who put on the uniform and those who keep us safe.
There are others here at WellSpan who wear different kind of uniforms, and I want to say thank you to the doctors, to the nurses, to the staff here at this extraordinarily wonderful healthcare institution that sadly has seen too much trauma. But thanks to their extraordinary talents and their dedication to their neighbors, they're able to help people get back up on their feet. That's what you did today for these two brave souls who put on a uniform to keep us safe. As we appreciate those of you who don the white coat and the scrubs, those of you who support the work that they do, you truly are wonderful people and we appreciate you very, very much.
[18:30:03]
I want to let you know that attorney General Pam Bondi reached out directly to me and shared with me that we have the full support of the federal government. I know, as Colonel Paris indicated before, he has spoken to the lead of the FBI here in this region, we so appreciate law enforcement at every level, and we, of course, appreciate our federal partners. The general and I worked together when I was attorney general here in Pennsylvania. She was the attorney general in Florida, meant a lot to me that she reached out to offer her support and her prayers for the good people of Pennsylvania.
Here's the last thing I want to say, and I'll turn it over to lieutenant governor. This kind of violence isn't okay. We need to do better as a society. We need to help the people who think that picking up a gun, picking up a weapon is the answer to resolving disputes. We can do better when it comes to mental health. We need to do better when it comes to looking out for those who are in need so we don't have to deal with tragedies like this. We got to do better as a society. I know everybody up here believes that, and everybody up here works hard to do that every day.
I just think as a community, it's time for us to work hard to heal from this and to make sure that those whose lives were lost today, it's something constructive can come from that in their memory that stops this kind of violence in the future. It protects those people that put on those uniforms for us. It makes it so these trauma surgeons don't have to patch this many people up. We got to do better as a society. I know we're all committed to doing that work. We've got to do even more. Now is the time for this community to come together and to do this important work.
And so on behalf of a grateful commonwealth, I say to those who wear the uniform of law enforcement, thank you. To those who wear the uniform of healthcare, thank you. To the elected leaders up here, thank you for the work that you have done and know you will do to keep our community safe. And to Colonel Paris and the entire team at the Pennsylvania State Police, I know you will have every resource you need to make sure that this investigation's conducted fully and thoroughly and that whatever steps need to be taken will.
May God bless your county and the entire Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. May God bless and watch over those families that are suffering right now. Lori and I join you in prayer, and I think prayer is a particularly important thing at this moment here in York County and all across Pennsylvania.
LT. GOV. AUSTIN DAVIS (D-PA): Thank you, Governor. I share your thoughts in prayers for the officers that were lost today, the officers who were injured and every law enforcement person across this great commonwealth. We are, unfortunately, here again in York County because of gun violence, the issue that brought me to public service, I want everyone to know today is not just a devastating day for this community in this region, it's a devastating day for our entire commonwealth. My wife, Blair, and our entire family join in the prayers of I believe 13 million Pennsylvanians who are praying for the officers and their families today.
You know, we ask a lot of police officers in our communities and they always run towards danger. I think we all have a responsibility to continuously do our part, to make our community safer. I know I'm going to continue to do my part, and we are consistently grateful for the commitment and the sacrifice that our law enforcement officers make. We're grateful for the healthcare professionals who run towards danger to aid folks in their time of need, and we're so grateful for the work that they've done today.
It's my pleasure to introduce Dr. Carney from WellSpan Health who will provide an update from the medical perspective.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, we received two gunshot wound victims from the scene. We immediately took them to the O.R. They are both in critical but stable condition currently. Trauma centers are a resource for the community. We're here when you need us and we enjoy the support of the both the local government, state government, and our administration. Thank you.
PARIS: So, at this point I would open it up to a few brief questions, however, prefacing that with the fact that the information we can provide is extremely limited.
[18:35:00]
Sir?
REPORTER: Did you say this was -- the officers involved are from Northern York --
PARIS: I did not say, and that was intentionally done so. Obviously, we know who they are and who they work for. Our concern is that there are some investigative steps that we're taking right now, and at the request of the district attorney, we're withholding that information.
REPORTER: Do you know the district attorney has released?
PARIS: I've spoken to District Attorney Barker. I know there are a lot of things going on right now, but at some point I know he will brief the media. Sir?
REPORTER: The circumstances surrounding while this officers were there, was they were serving a warrant of some sort of (INAUDIBLE)?
PARIS: So, they were there to follow up on an investigation that began yesterday. The general heading of that investigation, I would say, would be domestic-related. But beyond that, the facts and circumstances of we have more information, but pending the search warrants that we're currently typing up and serving, we want to hold that information any more specificity.
REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE) department they were with the officers?
PARIS: No, I did not. So, we're going to, at this point, say that the five law enforcement officers in York County, and we're going to leave it there, and I'm going to defer to the district attorney, Tim Barker.
REPORTER: I just want to be clear. So, there were five law enforcement shot, three of them killed, two in critical here in this hospital, but then the shooter was also killed. Is that correct?
PARIS: Correct. Those numbers are correct, sir.
REPORTER: Are there any other suspects involved?
PARIS: At this point we believe that the community is safe, but we're leaving no stone unturned and we're going to run every lead down, but I don't have that for you.
REPORTER: SWAT was called in?
PARIS: I'm not prepared to release that. Like I said, I'll defer to the district attorney. Sir?
REPORTER: Have you heard anything as far as weapons or what exactly happened when they arrived?
PARIS: No. I mean, we have, but not that I can confirm with any specificity that I would be concerned, we would have to backtrack on later. So, we're very much processing a large scene. I will confirm that it is a large scene. Members of the PSP Forensic Services Unit are down there mapping it right now. It's still very much an active scene. It is secure and we believe, just to reiterate, there's no threat to the community.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A couple more questions here.
REPORTER: Was he shot by police or did he shoot himself?
PARIS: He was shot by police.
REPORTER: Can you confirm the address or the block number at the scene?
PARIS: No, not at this time.
REPORTER: Governor, can I get your thoughts on earlier today you were at Chester trumpeting the fact that violent crime had actually been reduced there, how you would sum up your day after that, and then here you are now?
SHAPIRO: Well, look, this isn't about me or my emotions. I think this is just about a grieving community and I wanted to be here with this community. I want law enforcement to know how much we care about them and respect them. I want this hospital team to know how much they matter in this community. And most importantly, I want these families to know that we're all grieving with them and praying for them, and that they're not alone.
Thank you all very much.
TAPPER: I'm joined by CNN Chief Law Enforcement Analyst John Miller, as well as Senior Law Enforcement Analyst Charles Ramsey.
So, just to recap what we heard from the Pennsylvania police commissioner and Governor Josh Shapiro, five law enforcement officers were shot in Codorus Township in York County, Pennsylvania, York County on the Maryland line and Codorus Township is on the southern part of that. Three of the five officers were killed. Two of the officers are in critical but stable condition at the hospital in York County and the shooter is also dead. John Miller, your reaction to this tragic news.
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well. When you consider that this is the second officer killed in a -- I mean, the second incident in which officers were killed in York County, and, you know, Jake, you know better than I do, you know, York County is a place where things like this are not supposed to happen, and certainly not more than once. But if you then magnify this to say three officers killed, two others in critical but stable condition, this is going to tear at the heart of a quiet community that is, you know, marked by farmland and neighbors who know each other.
Details of what was going on behind this are going to emerge slowly, but we've been working on records associated with the name of the individual who was killed in the shootout with police. There was a charge of stalking and criminal trespass that was filed today, September 17th, 2025, in York County. So, as the facts come together, it appears that the arrest team was on their way to pick him up at the house.
It appears, and, again, this is very fluid and, you know, this information will morph and change over time, but it appears he may have been the only person in the house.
[18:40:01]
And this is a farm community on both sides of the street but it's a long road where you can look in any direction and see anything coming from a mile away.
It also appears from what we are told by sources about how quickly the shooting began with the arrival of law enforcement that he was laying in wait and that this may be characterized as an ambush and that he opened fire contemporaneously what they're getting there, as far as we're told.
TAPPER: Yes, this horrific news. And, Chief Ramsey, you led the police departments here in Washington, D.C., and also in Philadelphia, not far from York County. You heard governor Josh Shapiro there talking about the families of law enforcement officers and what they go through knowing that their loved ones every day go off to work with the very real risk that something could happen, that they are the first line of defense.
CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes. First of all, my condolences to the families of the officers who were killed and critically wounded today. You know, it brings me back, unfortunately, whenever I hear these things, I've dealt with a lot of line of duty deaths in Philadelphia for an example. During the eight years I served, I lost eight officers in the line of duty. Five was shot to death, two died responding to priority one calls, one struck by a drunk driver driving the wrong way on I-95.
It's absolutely horrible. And to see what the families go through at the hospital, as they're learning for the first time that their loved one has been killed, it's just unimaginable. And that entire community and certainly that entire department, and it may be more than one department, he didn't really give us the names of the departments, and in a region like that, you can have many agencies in the area, you know, respond together. So, we'll find that out a little later on.
But it is absolutely horrible. And, you know, I talk to the families of the officers that I lost. Every time they hear this, it brings them back to that day. And so it is a tragedy that goes beyond just today. And I think that people just need to stop and think about the kind of sacrifice the police officers make every day. You know, when you're out there and you're working the street, you're not thinking about the danger or the possibility of not coming home. You just don't think about that. You don't focus on that sort of thing. But it is a reality. And things like this remind you of that.
And there's nothing I can say other than the fact that I just -- I pray for them and they'll find a way to get through this, but it'll never be the same. Believe me.
TAPPER: Former Police Commissioner Charles Ramsey and John Miller, thanks to both of you.
Again, the breaking news, police in Pennsylvania confirming five law enforcement officers have been shot. Three of those officers were killed. The two others are in a hospital. They are in critical but stable condition. The shooter is dead as well. Our condolences to the family.
We are going to bring you more information about the shootings when we get it. We are also involved covering right now some major breaking news involving the FCC and the ABC network and comedian and late night host Jimmy Kimmel, who has been suspended indefinitely.
We're back with that news next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:47:31]
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Breaking news in our pop culture lead. Disney and the ABC network are taking "Jimmy Kimmel Live" off the air indefinitely. This follows a controversy over comments the late-night comedian made Monday night about Charlie Kirk's suspected killer and the MAGA movement, and their reaction to the assassination.
Let's get straight to CNN's chief media affairs correspondent, Brian Stelter.
Brian, what is going on? BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: That's right. This is fast
developing this afternoon, Jake, amid pressure from the Trump aligned FCC and in the past few minutes, ABC confirmed to CNN that Kimmel show will be off the air indefinitely. We have not yet heard from Kimmel or his representatives. That's how quickly this has been developing.
But let's back up and look at what Kimmel actually said on the program that has caused controversy. This is from Monday night in his Monday evening monologue, Kimmel suggested that the alleged killer of Charlie Kirk might have been a pro-Trump Republican.
He said, quote, "The MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them, and doing everything they can to score political points from it. He said in between the finger pointing, there was grieving."
Kimmel was expressing what we've heard some other liberals say in recent days that the motives are unclear and that maybe the suspect in this case was a Republican or was some sort of far-right fringe figure. Of course, there has been a lot of discussion about that in recent days. There's a lot of evidence pointing in other directions about the suspect, but Kimmel was on the air talking about this, making a very serious commentary amid his jokes in his monologue Monday night.
Here's where it became interesting earlier today. The FCC chairman, Brendan Carr, went on a far-right webcast and condemned Kimmel and urged ABC to suspend him. He also talked about possible regulatory punishments of Disney because there are lots of different stations that have licenses with the FCC.
Within the past hour, we've heard from a big owner of stations that have affiliations with ABC, a company called Nexstar saying that they were going to suspend Kimmel's show on their stations. So, in other words, about two dozen stations were refusing to air Kimmel's show tonight as a result of this controversy.
And then following word that some of those stations were basically revolting against Kimmel, Disney, the parent company of ABC, decided to yank the show entirely.
So that's all we know at the moment. We know Kimmel will not be on the air tonight or for the foreseeable future, because the network says the show has been yanked off the air indefinitely.
[18:50:05]
TAPPER: But, Brian, just to take one issue -- your interpretation of what Kimmel said, I think is the one that Brendan Carr had and the one that the individuals at Nexstar have, but what he said specifically was, quote, "The MAGA gang is desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them and doing everything they can to score political points from it." That can be read in several ways. That could be heard in several ways.
STELTER: Yes. TAPPER: It could also be interpreted -- it could also be argued, he's
saying that what the MAGA gang is doing is just trying to make sure that they don't have any ownership of it, not necessarily that that this killer, this horrible person, was part of them. I mean, I just think --
STELTER; I think you're making a very important point. You're making a very important point.
TAPPER: Yeah, I --
STELTER: And let's take a little bit step further. This was all on Monday night. Nobody seemed to notice this yesterday, Jake.
This all erupted in the past few hours when the Trump aligned FCC chairman decided to point at it. I've heard from him in the past few minutes. Brendan Carr thanking Nexstar for doing the right thing by yanking the show. He has not yet commented on ABC, yanking the show altogether across the entire country.
But let's remember that when Stephen Colbert show was canceled over the summer, what did President Trump say? He said, next up will be an even less talented Jimmy Kimmel. It is clear that pro-Trump allies have been trying to target ABC over Kimmel for several weeks now, and tonight, they've prevailed.
TAPPER: Yeah. Brian Stelter, thanks so much for that breaking news.
Let's go right to the panel. And let me first start by showing I wondered what was going on earlier today when I saw this pop up on Twitter. This is the FCC chairman, Brendan Carr, on a far-right podcast talking about what Kimmel's comments were. Let's roll that tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRENDAN CARR, FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION CHAIRMAN: You know, when you look at the conduct that has taken place by Jimmy Kimmel, it appears to be some of the sickest conduct possible, obviously, there's calls for him to be fired. I think, you know, you could certainly see a path forward for suspension over this. And again, you know, the FCC is going to have remedies that we could look at.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Joe, are you -- are you comfortable with the FCC playing this role?
JOSEPH MORENO, FORMER GOP STRATEGIST: I don't -- I don't think this is a legal issue. I don't think this can be pointed to the FCC or the Trump administration and say, well, this is about them going after Kimmel because of what he said. Personally, I think it's more of a cultural issue.
And I got to tell you I'm about as moderate a Republican as you can get. I'm from New York. I have not been comfortable watching late night television for 15 years because when you have conservative leanings and you're constantly mocked and you're constantly feel like you're doing something wrong. You shut it off, you don't watch it anymore.
And then what happens is its circular. If the host doesn't have that audience. The host doesn't worry about keeping an audience like that. It goes in circles. And at some point, you get things like this where you say things -- and that wasn't the full quote. The further quote was that he mocked President Trump for flying the flags at half-staff, in remembrance of Charlie Kirk and said it's like grieving for -- of a four-year-old, as a four-year-old grieves for a goldfish.
TAPPER: No, no.
MORENO: That was the full quote.
TAPPER: Well, the full quote was, I think he ran the clip of a reporter asking President Trump how he was doing with the death of Charlie Kirk. And President Trump said, I think I'm doing okay. And then he proceeded to talk about the ballroom that was being built on the White house grounds. I think that was -- that was the full context.
Again, I didn't say any of this. I'm just trying to present as accurate a picture of what did happen.
Elie, this is the FCC commissioner. We -- I don't think we have seen an FCC commissioner this aggressive in our lifetimes. What do you think of it all?
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: So to the point of whether there's a legal element here, I think Joe's right, like the First Amendment says Congress shall make no law, which means. You can. Only enforce the First Amendment against the government.
So, can Jimmy Kimmel sue? No, he can't. He can't sue ABC for making a decision to remove him. That's a private entity.
But what Donald Trump is doing repeatedly is he's expanding his executive power in two ways. One, I would say is precedented. That's the traditional stuff. I have more authority to hire and fire executive branch officials. I don't have to respond to Congress, that kind of thing. He's fighting that out in the court. Weve seen that before.
What's unprecedented, however, is the way Donald Trump is using official power from the FCC on to go after universities, law firms and media companies that he disagrees with on policy or on politics.
That is new. We've not seen that from any president before.
TAPPER: This is actually cancel culture. I mean, that's what this is. The chairman of the fed -- Federal Communications Commission, Brendan Carr, added on Benny Johnson's podcast that the broadcasters, including ABC, have a license granted by us at the FCC, and that comes with it an obligation to operate in the public interest. Elsewhere in the interview, Carr attacked Kimmel as talentless and suggested the late-night comedian's comments displayed some sort of, quote, desperate irrelevance.
[18:55:06]
Is that -- is that what we want the FCC chairman to be doing?
CHUCK ROCHA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: There's a very slippery slope. And there's a pattern. We keep talking about it like it's not happening and it just keeps happening over and over and over again with folks he disagrees with.
I'm a Democrat. I'll say, what happened to Charlie Kirk is disgusting. We should have a court. If he did it, he should be prosecuted to every extent of the law. We shouldn't have to say that. That's just common sense.
But we also should say the First Amendment matters to everybody, whether they agree or they disagree. And I just think that what we're going through right now is unprecedented. It's unseemly. And I think that that it's really getting out of hand because it's just happening more and more and more with folks who disagree.
TAPPER: We should let -- we do have the clip that Jimmy Kimmel said Monday night. Let's -- obviously, this is not the entire 8 or 9 minute monologue. This is just one clip of it. But this is what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMMY KIMMEL, LATE NIGHT HOST: We hit some new lows over the weekend with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them, and doing everything they can to score political points from it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Now, the way that Fox covered what he just said there was Kimmel suggests Kirk assassin was one of the MAGA gang, despite reports of leftist leanings. I don't know that I think that that is an accurate description, but they have the First Amendment to write what they want to write.
HONIG: Yeah. The job of the FCC is not to regulate and police content. It's not -- do we like this? Does this make us comfortable or uncomfortable? I don't like anything about what Jimmy Kimmel said. Frankly, I agree with Joe. I find his comments reprehensible, but it's not the FCC's job to say, do we like this or do we not?
And FCC, of course, is a government actor. And I'm thinking sort of off the top of my head here. But if ABC wanted to fight this, clearly, they don't, because they've made the decision to dispatch or suspend Jimmy Kimmel.
If they wanted to fight this, they might have a basis to go into court the same way that law firms have gone into court. And Harvard, among other universities, have gone into court and said this is an overextension of government power, of executive power. This violates the First Amendment.
And again, they can bring that because the FCC is a government actor. But Jimmy Kimmel cannot do anything against ABC because it's private.
TAPPER: So one other thing that the fed -- that the FCC commissioner, Brendan Carr, did in that interview with Benny Johnson, who, by the way, has said plenty of things that a lot of people find objectionable is he suggested, actually, the exact course of action that happened. He said what could happen is local affiliates could complain to ABC about the content, and then those local affiliates could say they're going to refuse to air "Jimmy Kimmel Live".
And that's actually what happened. Nexstar, which owns a bunch of ABC affiliates, they were the first ones to say in a statement, and a variety broke this news, we're not going to -- we're going to preempt this show. Is there any coming back from this, do you think?
MORENO: Well, I don't think ABC is canceling him because they're afraid of the FCC. I think they're afraid that they're going to lose whatever audience he has left, because that's such an offensive thing he said. As far as -- look, there's so much media alternatives at this point. So, I think the FCC, the range of authority they have is less and less because there are so many other outlets to reach out to.
So, if Kimmel wants to reappear somewhere else, he will. I think the point is, though, that again, when you alienate a part of the population who at some point just stops watching, then you have no incentive to keep whatever left of that audience as there is. And then, you know, it just kind of goes down the drain.
TAPPER: Let me ask you a question. Do you think that we are holding late night comedians to a standard for speech and decency, that we do not hold our elected leaders, including the president of the United States, to?
MORENO: I guess, who's we? I mean, you're talking about audience watchers or citizens?
TAPPER: The American people, the government of the -- of the United States, as of now, are we demanding that our late night comedians behave in a more upright and more conciliatory, insensitive way than we demand that our president act?
MORENO: Well, I think it's not so much demanding. It's if you don't like what Kimmel saying, you turn it off. If you don't like what Trump is doing, you don't vote for him. So I think that's the power you have. And so, I don't know that there's any kind of --
TAPPER: But we're not turning off Jimmy Kimmel. Theres being pressure applied to have him canceled.
MORENO: That's ABC's choice though. They don't have to cancel him.
ROCHA: But they feel the heat. Thats why they do it. Everybody who gets in the line of fire of this administration feels the heat. And they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We don't want any heat here. This is the big boys. And they all back down.
HONIG: Yeah, I'm actually surprised. Look, we've seen law firms back down. Most -- many law firms settled. I was surprised. I was disappointed by that. We've seen many colleges, including Columbia, settle, right?
And it's, I think, noteworthy and alarming to note how many free actors in private in the private sector have decided to give in to settle rather than to stand up and fight. There are some counterexamples. There are law firms that have fought Harvard and other universities have fought. But that's a decision that every private entity has to make for itself based on the bottom line.
MORENO: There's also a plethora of district court judges all across the country that are more than happy, though, to fight again, to push back against Trump administration actions.
HONIG: They've lost most of those lawsuits, though, the Trump administration.
MORENO: Deservedly.
TAPPER: All right. Thanks one and all. Appreciate it.
You can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, Threads, X. and on TikTok @jaketapper. You can follow the show on X @TheLeadCNN. If you ever missed an episode of THE LEAD, you can listen to the show whence you get your podcasts. Look for much more on the breaking news front. It just never stops breaking.
"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now.
