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The Lead with Jake Tapper

FCC Chair Credits Local T.V. Stations For Kimmel Suspension; Trump Suggests Networks' License Could Be Pulled If They Air Mostly Negative Coverage Of Him; FCC Chair Defends Satire In 2022" "Important Form Of Free Speech"; ABC Suspends Jimmy Kimmel After FCC Pressure Over Kirk Comments; Indiana Gov. Says State Could Face Political "Consequences" If It Doesn't Move Forward With Redistricting Push; CDC Advisers Postpone Vote On Some Vaccine Recommendations; Dr. Sanjay Gupta Answers Your Questions On New "Kissing Disease". Aired 5-6p ET

Aired September 18, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: All right, thanks to my panel for being here. Really appreciate all of you. Thanks to you at home for watching as well. If you missed any of today's show, you can always catch up by listening to our podcasts. Scan the QR code before below.

You follow along wherever you get your podcast. You can also follow us on X and Instagram. We are at thearenacnn. Phil Mattingly is standing by for "The Lead." Hi, Phil.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Kasie. We will see you back in "The Arena" tomorrow.

HUNT: Have a great show.

[17:00:45]

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So, should other T.V. hosts be worried after Jimmy Kimmel's suspension? The Lead starts right now.

Did we just get a new veiled threat from the FCC chairman today? President Trump also weighing in suggesting network licenses could be pulled if they air what he views as mostly negative coverage of him. Was the Kimmel move really just a business decision? Plus, breaking this hour, RFK Jr.'s new vaccine recommendation panel set to take a controversial vote this hour. Could it drastically impact your health and what disease you and your family are protected against?

Also, breaking, brand new details about that ambush in Pennsylvania that took the lives of three police officer and left two other officers critically injured.

Welcome to The Lead. I'm Phil Mattingly in for Jake Tapper. We're starting with the politics lead and the outcry, the fallout over Disney's ABC suspending Jimmy Kimmel's late night show indefinitely. That after his Monday night monologue, specifically a joke about the Republican response to the assassination of Charlie Kirk. Listen to a bit more of that for context here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY KIMMEL, AMERICAN HOST: We hit some new lows over the weekend with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them and doing everything they can to score political points from it. In between the finger pointing, there was grieving. On Friday, the White House flew the flags at half-staff, which got some criticism. But on a human level, you can see how hard the president is taking this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My condolences on the loss of your friend Charlie Kirk. May I ask, sir, personally, how are you holding up over the last day and a half, sir? DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think very good. And

by the way, right there, you see all the trucks? They've just started construction of the new ballroom for the White House, which is something they've been trying to get, as you know, for about 150 years. And it's going to be a beauty.

KIMMEL: Yes, he's at the fourth stage of grief, construction.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Now that monologue led FCC chairman Brendan Carr demanding ABC and its affiliates, quote, "take action frankly, on Kimmel." Now on a podcast hosted by Turning Point USA contributor Benny Johnson, he said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRENDAN CARR, FCC CHAIRMAN: We can do this the easy way or the hard way. (END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Just a few hours later, two of the affiliate owners, Nexstar and Sinclair, preempted Kimmel's show. ABC soon followed suit, suspending the program altogether. Now free speech advocates are expressing outrage. The ACLU calling out the Trump administration saying, quote, "This is beyond McCarthyism." And in England today, President Trump denied Kimmel's suspension was an attack on free speech at all. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Well, Jimmy Kimmel was fired because he had bad ratings more than anything else. And he said a horrible thing about a great gentleman known as Charlie Kirk. And Jimmy Kimmel is not a talented person. He had very bad ratings and they should have fired him a long time ago. So, you know, you can call that free speech or not.

He was fired for lack of talent.

(END VIDEO CLIP) MATTINGLY: Those comments followed a short while later on Air Force One with Trump threatening other networks, saying, quote, "I read someplace that the networks were 97 percent against me. They give me wholly bad publicity. I mean, they're getting a license. I would think maybe their license should be taken away."

Now, for Kimmel's part, he has stayed silent about his show's suspension. Neither Disney nor ABC have shared any details since the controversy erupted. The FCC chairman, on the other hand, well, Brendan Carr went on the Scott Jennings show this afternoon saying this was a marketplace decision by local T.V. station companies.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARR: There's no untoward coercion happening here. The market was intended to function this way, where local TV stations get to push back. But what happened was companies like Disney, like Comcast, they have amassed so much power over the years that they coward these local T.V. stations, they felt like they couldn't push back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: And that interview is where we're going to start today because Scott Jennings is here with me now.

Scott, actually, just to start with, we played that one clip and I want to dig into that in a second. But from your perspective as a, you know, coming up through the ranks of free market establishment Republicans, what was your takeaway from this interview with a government official who also came up through those ranks in a very similar way and is now moving in this direction?

[17:05:17]

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, he very much makes this to be a local affiliate decision and he really disputes that his commentary on this, which has been obviously circulating for the last several hours, had anything to do with it at all. He says Sinclair and Nexstar, they have these affiliates and they're getting complaints and they have to enforce or look out for what's called the public interest rule at the local level. They have the FCC broadcast licenses.

Also in the interview, he sort of educated people on the difference between broadcast stations and cable stations, but he has no love for these national programmers that put out these programs. And he seems to be, you know, really tilting towards wanting more power in the hands of local affiliates who have to deal with the fallout when things like Monday night happened. MATTINGLY: He also mentioned that it could be worth it to probe "The

View." I mean, I think a lot of people heard that as kind of a not so subtle, hey, keep your eyes open here, I'm watching this. What did you make of it? JENNINGS: I asked him if there were other programs that were bothering

him in the way that the Kimmel program was on Monday night, he mentioned "The View." He brought up this idea of shows being designated as bona fide news shows. And if you're a bona fide news show, you get an exemption. You don't have to do equal opportunity. And so he said, I think it was -- he says, worth looking at whether they actually qualify as bona fide news shows.

But I had brought up "The View." But I also asked him about Jimmy Fallon and Seth Meyers who are on MAC because President Trump has mentioned those shows. So I gave him a chance to opine on that. And he was, you know, I think, talking out loud a little bit about this concept of whether shows should be able to maintain the designation of big bona fide news shows.

MATTINGLY: The president today, were talking earlier about how he went further. He's kind of said the quiet part a lot louder than kind of the process and government operational view that was conveyed to you on the show from the FCC chair said, "I read someplace that they're -- the networks for 97 percent against me. They're 97 percent against. They give me wholly bad publicity. I mean, they're getting a license. I would think maybe their license should be taken away."

Don't play this game as often as perhaps a lot of people do. But it does raise the question, like if a Democratic president said that about a conservative network, how would people respond?

JENNINGS: Well, I actually asked him about, you know, do you feel like this is pressure coming from, you know, a conservative administration? How should conservatives be reacting to this? And he went and rattled off a number of examples where previous Democratic administrations had used their influence and power and leverage against what were perceived as conservative outlets. So he didn't really, you know, have a -- have much to say to that particular argument.

Regarding just the marketplace, you know, President Trump mentioned the ratings today of Kimmel and said that's primarily why he got fired. Carr brought that up as well. As part of the overall business decision, he said, we're in a marketplace, the ratings are bad, the network affiliates have, you know, things to say about this. You know, these network T.V. stations are -- you know, the local guys are facing very big financial pressures right now. These late night shows may not be working for them and they're losing money, they're under enormous pressure.

And of course, at the same time they're having to lay off people like, you know, local journalists. And so, one of the arguments I expect to hear being made is that if you allow these local T.V. stations to do something more profitable at night, they may be able to actually make more money and keep more local journalists on the payroll. So, there -- you know, there's -- there's a lot of things at play here, but it's all around the idea that the local guys need more power and the marketplace needs to be respected. And that's really where I think Brendan Carr was coming from today.

MATTINGLY: Can I follow up just real quick before I let you go? The point you're making at the start of your answer there, which was he kind of rolled off a number of examples that he cited related to what Democrats had done to conservative related entities in the past. You know, there has been, I think, a post from X that's been circulating in 2022. He tweeted the "Political satire is one of the oldest and most important forms of free speech. It challenges those in power while using humor to draw more people into the discussion. That's why people influential positions have always targeted it for censorship."

The point you made or that he was making to you about examples that he had seen targeting conservatives up to this point, how important do you think that is to his decision to kind of take a more robust path here?

JENNINGS: Well, he rejects that he's doing anything new or that they're actually taking any action. He firmly puts this on the affiliates and the owners of the affiliates, Nexstar and Sinclair. And he believes they should have the power to push back on these network programmers. That's number one.

I did read his quote back to him. I also read the quote from Jimmy Kimmel. I said, is this what you found objectionable? And he said, where's the joke? You know, this wasn't satire.

[17:10:02]

He doesn't believe Jimmy Kimmel was making a joke when he went on television and I think lied about, you know, implying that this shooter was, you know, part of the MAGA movement. And so, you know, you're hearing that from a lot of conservatives today, frankly. They didn't see Kimmel's commentary as jokes or satire, they saw it as a willful attempt by someone on the left to mislead the American people about the motivations of the shooter in a case obviously that's getting worldwide headlines.

MATTINGLY: Scott Jennings, appreciate you, man. Thank you.

JENNINGS: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: I want to bring in CNN Media Correspondent Hadas Gold and CNN Political Director David Chalian.

Hadas, I want to start with you. Late night, you know, Scott made this point, hasn't exactly been thriving for a few years now. Jimmy Kimmel's contract is set to expire soon to the point that has been made by the president, by the FCC chair, this is business, this is an economic decision. How much of an economic reason do you think was behind this?

HADAS GOLD, CNN MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: I mean, well, listen, when some of the biggest T.V. station owners are saying they're not going to run your program, you're going to lose a lot of advertising dollars. And according to iSpot TV, which tracks some of this, they said that last year Kimmel brought in something like more than $76 million worth of advertising dollars. And we don't know exactly how much it costs to air and run Jimmy Kimmel. These shows can be expensive. But he also -- when you look at the ratings, his ratings have been down slightly.

Just like across all linear T.V. has been down slightly over the last two quarters. But when you compare him to other late night T.V. shows, he's doing better than, for example, Jimmy Fallon is. And when you look at his YouTube subscribers, for example, so many of these clips, they go viral online. He has more than 20 million subscribers on YouTube.

But let's be real here. This is not about the ratings. This is not about the economics, at least not in this moment. This is about big business transactions. Nexstar, this big T.V. station owner, is trying to buy TEGNA, another big TV station owner.

They need government approval to do so. And in fact, as all this was going on, they were filing paperwork with the SEC saying they were going to file all of their final paperwork by September 30th. This is happening right now. I think National Review's Philip Klein said it best. He said, ABC and its affiliates may have pulled the trigger, but they did so with FCC guns pointed at their own heads if they did not. MATTINGLY: David Hadassah makes such a great point here, which is the

threat or the potential of what an administration could do, I think has been animating feature of much of the last eight months --

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes.

MATTINGLY: -- as we've seen kind of corporate titans who usually have no issue ignoring, criticizing any number of things, any administration -- CHALIAN: No. It's having a desired effect, though. I mean, so the

threat itself is accomplishing the goal for the Trump administration in a whole host of arenas. And I think, you know, looking at how corporations like ABC, Disney, how institutions like law firms or -- or universities respond to this moment, I mean, that's going to be a big part of the history that gets recorded of this Trump administration.

The threat, I know the chairman was trying to say this all happened independent of him. You cannot remove his stated goal, his stated pursuit yesterday from the events that occurred. I understand he didn't take an action, but the threat seemed to achieve what it wanted to achieve.

MATTINGLY: Yes, Hadas, just to that point, and the idea here is that he has the power. He has made clear that he or he has a really key lever of power here, he's made clear he's willing to utilize it in a way it's never been used before. But the way the law is written, he probably can. That's not nothing here. That's not -- that has to weigh in on these -- these decisions.

GOLD: I just find it so funny. I mean, it's like walking around, I don't know, with a weapon and saying, well, I didn't use this weapon against you. But you're standing there and you're looking at the weapon and you feel very, very threatened about it. There's a lot of these business deals. We have seen it with other -- with other major networks who feel very threatened, and then they end up settling or they end up doing other things.

I mean, look at Skydance and Paramount and CBS, what happened there. It is very kind of funny and ironic to hear him saying, well, there's no action related here. And you just look down the timeline of what happened, what Jimmy Kimmel said, what Brendan Carr said, and then the actions taken by the affiliates, and it's kind of hard not to put two and two together.

MATTINGLY: Yes. Also the emojis that he kept sending media reporters last night celebrating what had happened. Like, come on, like, we get -- we know, like, you know, it all lines up, whatever he says.

All right, Hadas Gold, David Chalian, thank you guys very much.

Well, up ahead, the power of the local TV station groups. How much weight do they actually have here? We'll go beyond the headlines and follow the money.

[17:14:32]

Plus the vote expected soon that could determine who can get certain vaccines and when. We'll get a unique perspective from the doctor who helped lead the COVID response in Trump's first term. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: We're back now with the politics lead and a closer look at Nexstar Media and Sinclair Broadcasting, two of the largest T.V. groups in the nation. Together they own 450 local T.V. stations and together were a key factor influencing ABC's decision to pull Kimmel's show off the air. But how? CNN's Tom Foreman follows the money and breaks down the power and the politics.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KIMMEL: Many in MAGA land are working on the murder of Charlie Kirk.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The takedown of Jimmy Kimmel started with the nation's biggest name in local T.V. Nexstar Media owns or partners with more than 200 stations, many of them ABC affiliates. It has a $6.2 billion expansion, up for approval by communications commission. And reason to listen when the FCC head suggests stations everywhere could risk their licenses for putting Kimmel on the public airwaves.

CARR: These companies can find ways to change conduct, to take action frankly on Kimmel or, you know, there's going to be additional work for the FCC ahead.

FOREMAN (voice-over): In short order, Nexstar declared Kimmel's comments offensive and insensitive and yanked his show. All just business? Hard to say. Open secrets found Nextar CEO Perry Sook has donated to both political parties, but much more often to Republicans. The corporation has a more balanced donation profile.

[17:20:04]

Yet a few years ago, channel drew complaints from some staffers who said management was pushing them to favor the political right. Still, Sook recently said, there is no thumb on the scales.

PERRY SOOK, NEXSTAR CEO: I do not dictate content. No one in the organization dictates any content. We work together on group projects, but no one's handed a script and said, here, read this and. And it goes across all of -- all of the markets in which we operate.

FOREMAN (voice-over): Smaller than Nexstar, but still a powerhouse, Sinclair Television, with a long standing conservative bent, preempted Kimmel's show and called on him to issue a direct apology to the Kirk family and make a meaningful personal donation to that family and to the conservative action group cofounded by Kirk. It all seems to have been too much for ABC, owned by Disney, which turned the lights out indefinitely on Kimmel's show with little comment and too much for some critics as well.

ANNA GOMEZ, FCC COMMISSIONER: And what you're seeing here is this administration is increasingly using the weight of government power to suppress lawful expression. Not because it glorifies violence or breaks the law, but because it challenges those in power and reflects views they oppose.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOREMAN (on camera): It's worth noting here also that as much as they keep talking about local stations and answering to what the local audience wants, this has not been left by these corporations up to each individual station to say whether or not we want to keep the show. These are great big corporations saying to another great big corporation, we don't like what you're doing. All in what seems to be an attempt to curry favor with the White House.

MATTINGLY: Yes, critical context. Great reporting. Thanks, Tom.

Well, brand new information just coming in about that deadly ambush in Pennsylvania that killed three police officers. What we've just learned about those officers. Where the shooter was hiding. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:26:03]

MATTINGLY: In our law and justice lead, police officers ambushed. That is how officials are describing yesterday's deadly shooting in York County, Pennsylvania. Three police officers were killed, two others injured as they tried to serve an arrest warrant for a man accused of stalking his ex-girlfriend. CNN's Gabe Cohen is in Pennsylvania with the new details.

GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Phil, we've now learned the identities of those three fallen officers. They are Detective Sergeant Cody Becker, Detective Mark Baker and Detective Isaiah Emenheiser. All three ambushed as they entered this York County home by a gunman with an AR15 rifle who was waiting just inside the front door.

That shooter, now identified by Police as 24-year-old Matthew Ruth. Police say his ex-girlfriend lives in this house with her mother and the two of them had called police in recent days to report that Ruth was stalking the residence, seen in the driveway wearing camouflage, peering into windows through binoculars and even seen carrying a rifle. Police obtained an arrest warrant and they were actively searching for Ruth when they came to this house on Wednesday. They expected, though, for the house to be empty because the family here had fled for safety. Instead, Ruth had found his way into the home and was waiting just inside the front door with his rifle.

He shot and killed those three detectives before engaging in a firefight with other officers, injuring two of them before he was eventually shot and killed. This afternoon, an emotional press conference from authorities as the local district attorney said that the actions of all of those officers yesterday undoubtedly save lives.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIM BARKER, YORK COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: We have two lives of the residents there that are saved today. Had they arrived home and not Northern Regional Police Department officers arrived, they would have been killed immediately by the actor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: And a powerful moment late last night as residents across York County lined the streets for a procession in honor of those fallen officers.

Phil, this is a community that is grieving right now that just a few months ago lost another officer shot and killed during a hostage situation at a local hospital, now once again dealing with an immeasurable tragedy.

MATTINGLY: Gabe Cohen for us on the ground, thanks so much.

Well, CNN's John King hit the road because that's what CNN's John King does, once again, to see an issue up close that's roiling American politics. What he discovered when he went deep into the heart of redistricting country?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:33:00]

MATTINGLY: In our Politics Lead, President Trump claiming a big victory in Texas as the race to redistrict spreads to other states ahead of next year's midterms. In his latest all over the map series, CNN's John King takes us to the Lone Star State and speaks with Democrats in two areas most dramatically impacted by the new congressional map.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MANUEL RIZO, TEXAS VOTER: There's got to be some sort of a change.

JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Manuel Rizo is a Democrat in Texas on the losing side again.

RIZO: Intentional gerrymandering in order to control the vote.

KING (voice-over): Rizo keeps private jets flying. This airport in Pflugerville currently in a solid blue congressional district. But not for long. Texas Republicans drew new maps for the midterms and the Austin area gets a dramatic makeover. KING: This is Kyle, Texas, about 20 miles down Interstate 35 south of Austin. As of today, this is the 35th congressional district, one of two solidly blue seats in the Austin area. But when Texans vote in next year's midterm elections, the map will be dramatically different. The 35th moved south, east of San Antonio, to Republican country. The 37th made more compact right there in Austin. The result, two Democratic districts become one. And tens of thousands of Texans, now represented by Democrats in Congress, dispersed into more rural and Republican districts.

KING (voice-over): Rizo doesn't think it will impact business if this hangar is suddenly in a red district. But it does impact his top political priority. Rizo's nine-year-old niece Jackie was among the students gunned down in Uvalde. The Republican whose district will pick up Pflugerville does not share Rizo's views on gun safety legislation.

RIZO: These politicians are afraid to go against their party, even when it involves something to prevent a child from dying in the school.

KING (voice-over): Gretchen Pruett is also angry at being moved. She likes her wine red, but her politics blue.

GRETCHEN PRUETT, TEXAS VOTER: When I was in public service in the government, I could not speak out, but I'm now retired and unmuzzled, and so I have a voice and I'm going to use it.

[17:35:02]

KING (voice-over): Pruett is a retired library director. She has studied the new map lines, understands the math, promises to keep fighting, even if she can't stop the Republicans in 2026.

KING: Is it about Texas or is it more about President Trump?

PRUETT: I do believe it's about President Trump. There was no talk of this until the President suggested it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: And Phil, you mentioned at the top other states are doing this as well. Missouri just did it, probably pick up one Republican seat. Indiana may do it by the end of the year, early next year, several other states. What angers Democrats in Texas is Trump won with 56 percent of the vote.

Greg Abbott won re-election two years before. That was 55 percent of the vote. If this plan succeeds, Republicans will have 80 percent of the House districts in Texas. So Democrats say, we get it. To the victor go the spoils. They view this as disproportionate.

But Governor Abbott and President Trump say, we won. We have the power. Too bad.

MATTINGLY: Can I ask you about Indiana? Just broaden it out a little bit. You mentioned Indiana. They might do it. There has been kind of a slow evolution of Indiana Republicans being like, no, we're not -- no, definitely not. OK, maybe we might have to because of this. Listen to what Governor Mike Braun.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. MIKE BRAUN (R-IN): I think the Trump administration for what it's trying to do, if you're not kind of getting involved as well as you can on the political side, you probably are not going to be the first call when it comes to the benefits of just like we're one of five states now that has the Agriculture Department moves its bureaucracy into the interior.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: That's a polite way of saying the administration says you will not get aid. We will not take your phone calls. We may primary your members if you don't do what we want. And so you mentioned they were initially very reluctant. There are still traditional conservatives out there who say, we'll do this right after the census, but then we're not going to do it again. We're not going to do it every two years. We're not going to do every five years. That was the initial reaction. Maybe we'll look at this after the next census, maybe.

But the administration has been relentless in pushing these red states. If you can do it, do it. And there's sort of an implicit or else. That's what the government was getting at.

MATTINGLY: Your sister is a --

XOCHITL HINOJOSA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: -- state rep, yes.

MATTINGLY: -- of the legislature there. From a Democrat perspective, I mean, we talked to a bunch of them in The Lead up and you're just kind of like, I mean, we can't actually do anything here.

HINOJOSA: Yes, they're powerless. I mean, we were just talking about how, John and I were just talking about how Texas Democrats used to, about 30 years ago, we had a governor. That was the last time we had a statewide office in Texas. It is largely believed that because of the demographics in Texas and the large Latino population and the growing Latino population, that Texas could eventually turn blue.

And Republicans see that. And that is why they've taken the actions that they have. The reality is what's happening here is that this is not partisan gerrymandering. This is racial gerrymandering. And what's happening in these districts and I saw that you talked to Latino voters in particular, is these Latino voters elected Latino representatives to represent them in places like Austin and Houston and South Texas, where it's like about 90 percent Latino.

Now, because of these redistricting efforts, you no longer have Latinos or you will not after the election have Latinos representing the Latino community. And that is a problem. And people are angry about it in Texas, whether or not that translates to votes. I think that's a different story. And I think Republicans are also banking that Latinos are going to vote for them because they voted for Trump in the last election. But that's not the case anymore. His approval rating with Latinos is going down.

MATTINGLY: Can I ask you again, trying to broaden it out a little bit, what we heard Governor Braun say, the White House's ability, not unlike what we're seeing right now with an FCC chair who can allude to some things, claim he's not alluding to some things and then get immediate results, like this White House has utilized the threat of government or the threat of their political power to bring people in line on things that they don't necessarily want to do and aren't necessarily where Republicans would have been prior. But the party moves in their direction.

T.W. ARRIGHI, VICE PRESIDENT, PUSH DIGITAL GROUP: Perhaps. I think when humans are in control of gerrymandering or drawing districts, you're going to get gerrymandering. That's just part and parcel to the human element of it. I think if you look at states, and this has been done already, if you look at states with one -- with the proportionality of one party vote in a presidential compared to congressional seats that they represent, blue states lead the way.

Look at our home state of Massachusetts, right? Always consistently in the mid-30s, there is not one out of the nine congressional seats that even sniffs competitiveness. In fact, I think one of the worst gerrymandered seats is Massachusetts' fourth district. It's horrifically gerrymandered. So look, I think that it is a two-party problem. Democrats have it as well. Republicans are just recognizing it and acting on it.

MATTINGLY: The idea, I was trying to thread it together and then you had like an encyclopedic knowledge of Massachusetts districts. He's right. I know -- I know you're right, but I do -- I wanted to ask you about kind of their -- the -- the Trump team's ability as we've seen in the last 24 hours with the Jimmy Kimmel situation, like using that authority or the threat of that authority, which has been a through line of the last seven or eight months. What's your response to what's happened there with an FCC chairman?

[17:40:21]

ARRIGHI: With the -- with the Kimmel portion. Well, first of all, let's just pull back. So Jake did a great thing on his Instagram and Twitter where he broke down that Nexstar wants to buy another company, which would put them over the threshold to own more stations across the nation than is currently allowed by federal law, right? Jimmy Kimmel makes $15 to $16 million. Dave Portnoy said this great.

Is the juice worth the squeeze? He has lost 42 percent of his viewership since Donald Trump came into office. It's a shrinking market, no doubt, but he's poured gasoline on that fire. So for their company, is it worth the squeeze to keep poking the bear? Johnny Carson once told Mike Wallace in the 70s on "60 Minutes" that he didn't understand why late night comics even got into political comedy. He didn't see the need for it. He said, I work for a business. Why would that business want me out there trashing half the country? You're seeing that play out now. It's a free market at work. KING: No, it's the free market at work with a nudge though.

HINOJOSA: Yes.

KING: We have the chairman saying we can do this the hard way or the easy way. That's essentially what President Trump or his political operation is telling Governor Braun. It's the same thing. We can do this the hard way or the easy way. So you're using the powers of government to nudge the marketplace.

MATTINGLY: Real quick.

HINOJOSA: Yes. And I agree. And I think that this is the difference between Trump one and Trump two. Trump one felt like he did not -- he did not use his powers. Now he's using them.

MATTINGLY: Yes. It's been remarkable to watch district breakdowns, quoting Tapper and Portnoy.

ARRIGHI: We're covering all bases here, man.

HINOJOSA: We've got it all. We've got it all.

MATTINGLY: We're covering all bases. Thank you guys very much. Great piece as always.

Well, breaking details just in about RFK Jr.'s new CDC advisory panel. What we're learning about delayed votes on key vaccines that could impact your family's health.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:46:16]

MATTINGLY: Breaking news in our Health Lead. Just moments ago, a group of advisors handpicked by Health and Human Services Secretary RFK Jr., postponing a series of votes on vaccine recommendations that could impact your children. CNN's Meg Tirrell is at a CDC site in Atlanta. Meg, what happened here?

MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Phil, well, this day just went really, really long. So essentially, a planned vote on the hepatitis B vaccine universal dose that's given to newborns. That is the current recommendation of the CDC. They are suggesting a recommendation to change that to essentially test all pregnant women for hepatitis B and for moms who are found to be negative for the virus to delay that first dose until the baby's at least one month of age and still allow for the option to get the vaccine earlier if parents and doctors decide that's the right thing to do. So that vote was scheduled for tonight. But because this has gone so late, and you can see folks are now filing out of this meeting, which just wrapped up, that vote is now going to be tomorrow morning, Phil.

MATTINGLY: OK, so important context. I don't want to make it sound like there was some shift in plans. Just a very long day, which is why we appreciate Meg hanging out with us. What did they vote on today? TIRRELL: Yes, so they also did take a vote on the measles, mumps, rubella and varicella, which is chickenpox combination vaccine. And what they ended up doing is changing the recommendation so that kids under the age of four, they say, should not get the combination vaccine. They should get the MMR vaccine and then separately the chickenpox vaccine for under the age of four. And that's because there is a small but slightly elevated risk of febrile seizures or seizures after fever for kids if they get that combination vaccine at the age of about one. And so that does change the recommendation for that vaccine.

And there were some experts here who argued that that takes away parent choice. But that is a change. And in terms of the hepatitis B vaccine, there's a lot of debate about that, too, as well, Phil. And so we're going to see how that vote goes tomorrow.

MATTINGLY: Yes, the vote. I think there's other things on the agenda that are important as well. Meg Tirrell, great reporting as always, my friend, from the CDC in Atlanta, thanks so much.

I want to bring in now Dr. Deborah Brix. She served as White House COVID response coordinator in President Trump's first term. Dr. Brix, really appreciate your time. Just to kind of start with the -- the run through that Meg gave in terms of when it comes to the recommendations related to MMRV vaccines. How do you view what's happening right now?

DR. DEBORAH BIRX, PHYSICIAN: So I think what they're saying is we're using the science and the data to find these rare instances of this difficulty with the combination vaccine. Now, remember, MMR is already a combination vaccine for measles, mumps and rubella. And they're saying, let's separate them. Let's go back to where we were several years ago and separate those vaccines to ensure that no child has that rare reaction.

With the hepatitis vaccine, I'm really thrilled that they're focusing on the moms. We're not paying enough attention to the moms. We don't want any mom to have hepatitis and not -- and go on treatment -- untreated. And there's now treatment for mothers in the third tri- semester. So public health should be both the mommies and the babies and potentially the partners. So let's make public health what it's supposed to be and comprehensive.

MATTINGLY: And as a father and a husband who -- who has been watching over the course of the last couple of months, and to be honest, a mixture of concern, but also not totally sure what I'm supposed to think about the CDC vaccine advisors who are handpicked by the Health and Human Services Secretary. They -- they're taking a look at COVID- 19 vaccine recommendations. What's your sense of the direction of that right now?

[17:50:02]

BIRX: Well, you know, I think we haven't presented the data well. Most of the European countries stopped vaccinating children under five for COVID in 2021. And we haven't even talked about that. So to your listeners, go to the Green Book, COVID-19 U.K., and you'll see well laid out the data and why they made the decisions to stop vaccinating children under five. It was very well laid out.

It's clear that children are not at the same risk that they were before. And they tested children. So they actually did the science and the data, got antibody titers on their children in kindergarten and found out that they -- majority 95 percent plus already had antibodies. So it's using science and data to be practical. And that's what I hope that we're doing. I understand the birth toll. A lot of that was about us failing to identify the moms that are -- that have hepatitis. Let's make sure that we're concerned about the moms and the babies and the dads.

MATTINGLY: What about folks that are older? The idea of recommending moving COVID-19 shots from 65 years old to age 75?

BIRX: Yes, so if you go to that same Green Book, they lay out every tier. And so their top tier for immunization is people over 85 and then 75 and then over 65. And I think what got lost in the shuffle of the mandates is we ended up not being successful in immunizing the most at risk populations. And that hurts me from a public health standpoint.

That's the group we should have concentrated on, those with underlying conditions and those over 65. Please look at the Green Book. It's laid out so well. And I don't know why we don't put out information like that. It would really reassure the public and establish more trust.

MATTINGLY: It's a really great point. Dr. Deborah Birx, really appreciate your time. Thank you so much.

BIRX: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: Well, we're staying in the Health Lead. And Paging Dr. Sanjay Gupta on the kissing bug disease. He's answering viewer questions. And I have some, next.

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[17:56:33]

MATTINGLY: In our Health Lead, Dr. Sanjay Gupta is back to answer your questions about a new kissing disease that's spreading across the country. Sanjay, you told us all about this on Tuesday. Now, Deidre wants to know, what's the treatment for the kissing bug disease?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so -- so keep in, first of all, so many questions about this. It's amazing how some things just sort of enter the consciousness. But it's a parasitic disease. So this is different than bacteria, different than viruses. So you want to use an anti-parasitic.

And it turns out there are a couple that are really effective. A couple caveats. You got to be diagnosed early with this. So if you're suspicious that you might be dealing with Chagas disease, you've been bit, you're having symptoms, get tested early. It's a blood test. If it comes back positive, you can try one of these anti-parasitics. Phil, it's a commitment. It's 60 days of treatment. So, you know, a pretty significant amount of time. It's not cheap, hundreds of dollars for that treatment. But it is very effective. So, you know, if you can get it detected early, you can get it treated early.

MATTINGLY: The next question is from Fatima in Miami. Wants to know, can it affect pets? Also, would mosquito repellent help in keeping them from biting?

GUPTA: Yes, so it can affect pets. And this is really interesting. It can affect animals. And that's usually one of the first signs that this particular disease, this kissing bug disease, Chagas, is entering an area. And again, you know, there are certain places now in the United States where you're seeing significant numbers of human infections being contracted in the United States.

Previously, a lot of the patients who had Chagas in the United States, they were imported, meaning they got infected somewhere else then came back to the United States. But it can affect cats and dogs. Cats tend to be more carriers. So carry the parasite without necessarily getting sick. But dogs, they can get quite sick from this, just like humans can. They can develop lethargy. If untreated, it can affect their hearts and their GI system. But just like humans, they can be tested and they can potentially be treated as well.

As far as I think the second question about mosquito repellent, again, not so effective. These are not mosquitoes. These are -- these -- these kissing bugs. It's the type of bug that carries this parasite. So DEET might have some benefit to -- to actually controlling it, but not much.

MATTINGLY: Last one, Stacey from Little Rock asks, will these bugs go away when colder weather arrives? Also, what are some of the early symptoms?

GUPTA: OK, so with regard to the first question, some good news there. Yes, part of the reason we're seeing this in the United States is because overall the temperatures have become warmer. So what were previously, quote unquote, tropical diseases have migrated to the north. You can see on the map there, mostly the southern states. But as the weather gets cooler, the incidence will go down. In fact, they say when it gets around 62 degrees or so, low 60s, transmission almost drops down to zero.

Now, as far as early symptoms, it can be a little bit hard to tell sometimes. I mean, fever, for example, rash, headaches, things like that. These are somewhat vague symptoms. But eyelid swelling, and you may remember, Phil, when we talked about this before, it's a parasite that gets into the skin. It's usually starting on the face. So take a look at that eyelid there. That's swelling. It's called Ramona sign. And that's very characteristic of Chagas disease.

Again, something we see a lot in rural Mexico, Central America, South America. But if you see that in the United States, that's the parasite that you're probably dealing with.

[18:00:08]

MATTINGLY: Dr. Sanjay Gupta always appreciate you, man. Thank you.