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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump Ramps Up Attacks On Free Speech; RFK Jr.'s CDC Advisers Vote To Drop COVID-19 Vaccine Recommendation For All Americans; Oversight Democrats Slam Acosta For Epstein Plea Deal Testimony; House Approves Resolution To Honor Charlie Kirk; Harris Reveals Why She Didn't Select Pete Buttigieg And Pennsylvania Governor Shapiro For Running Mate In New Book. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired September 19, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.

This hour, what President Trump just said moments ago about a top federal prosecutor, an appointee of his, who has not yet gone through with charging one of the president's political opponents.

Plus, a vigil happening right now at Utah Valley University in the wake of the gruesome and horrific Charlie Kirk assassination there nine days ago, we're going to go there live.

Also, what went down behind closed doors, as former U.S. Attorney Alex Acosta, testified about the sweetheart deal he brokered for pedophile Jeffrey Epstein. I'm going to talk to a lawmaker who was in the room.

And four-time Super Bowl champion Terry Bradshaw is going to be here. The big project the famed NFL broadcaster is now cooking up.

The Lead tonight, President Trump ramping up his attacks on free speech. Moments ago in the Oval Office, the president repeated his wild attempt at trying to apply reason as to why he should be allowed to use the power of the presidency to pressure networks over what is allowed to be said on their airwaves about him.

Let's go right to CNN Chief Whitehouse correspondent Kaitlan Collins. Kaitlan.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jake. These comments are just remarkable because the president is doubling down on what he told reporters on Air Force One just yesterday about punishment that he believes networks should face over what their late night hosts say about him, particularly how much negative coverage there is of the president.

And he was just in the Oval Office being questioned about this and also questioned about comments that Senator Ted Cruz, who is a huge ally of this president and this administration's made where he was likening the FCC Chair Brendan Carr, who for the president, has been touting as a patriot. Ted Cruz was likening him more to a mob boss. And the president just now was explicitly saying that he does believe if there is enough negative coverage of him on these networks, that their employers should face the consequences.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: They'll take a great story and they'll make it bad. See, I think that's really illegal, personally.

When somebody is given 97 percent of the stories are bad about a person, that's no longer free speech. That's no longer (INAUDIBLE), it's cheating.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Now, Jake, the reason why what the president just said there matters is he is going further than he went yesterday, where he was simply saying that people who speak too negatively about him should be at risk of losing their license. Yesterday, he was essentially suggesting it. Today, he's making it explicitly clear. But he is also saying there, Jake, that if there is a enough negative coverage about him that he believes, as he said, personally, that it is illegal.

TAPPER: Yes, saying that newscasts that are not sufficiently positive are a crime, shocking.

COLLINS: Or comedians talking about him, Jake, not just newscast. He is talking about late night hosts also here. I mean, obviously he doesn't like negative coverage in a newscast, but he is also talking about, you know, Jimmy Kimmel, Jimmy Fallon, Seth Myers. These are comedians who have late night shows. It's not even just a news broadcast. And he is saying that negative coverage of him, he believes, it should be illegal.

TAPPER: It is stunning to me that people in the conservative media are so shortsighted, they don't see how this is going to impact them when a Democrat wins the White House, and that will happen someday.

We should note this other fascinating and odd development. Trump also confirming that he wants to fire the U.S. attorney from the Eastern District of Virginia. And he said it was because the two Democrats voted to confirm him although it has been reported that it's because this U.S. attorney has not brought criminal charges that Trump wants him to against one of his political opponents.

COLLINS: Yes, or maybe multiple, because there's also questions about the former FBI director, James Comey, and the investigations that Trump wants carried out into him and potential charges there. And when you listen to what the president says here about the attorney, the U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia, remember, this is someone that Trump nominated to this job back in May. And just so everyone knows what he's talking about here, it's this blue slip custom where home state senators basically get right of first refusal on judicial nominees from their state. It's meant to make sure that there is bipartisanship, that obviously in regional areas they know the people who are in their states.

And this is something that I personally, Jake, have not heard the president raise before there were reports that were servicing where this U.S. attorney was saying that he could not get enough evidence basically to bring charges against Letitia James,

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I know that the U.S. attorney from the eastern district or from that district Virginia that he was approved by two Democrat senators who, in my opinion, are among the worst.

[18:05:11]

When I saw that he got approved by those two men, I said, pull it, because he can't be any good.

REPORTER: So, you want him fired, you want him out?

TRUMP: Yes, I want him out. Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So, Senator Tim Kaine and Mark Warner approved this nominee. But, again, Jake, this is the president who nominated him to this job. When he's talking about it bothered him that Democrats voted, yes, the president picked him for this role just a couple of months ago back in May, I believe, based on what I was just looking at of when this nomination went up. So, this is the president's pick to be the U.S. attorney in this position, as presidents have the right to do and pick their people for those roles. And he is complaining about him, essentially, because of the lack of charges, as the reporting. The president there is blaming it though on the two approvals from the home state Democratic senators.

TAPPER: Yes, it doesn't -- that just doesn't make any sense. You don't want to remove somebody because they get bipartisan support in Congress. It seems much more likely it has to do with what has been reported elsewhere that the president wants him to be bringing criminal charges against his political opponents, even though apparently there isn't the evidence.

Kaitlan Collins in London, thanks so much. Kaitlan's going to have much more on her show, The Source with Kaitlan Collins. That's tonight at 9:00 Eastern only here on CNN.

Let's bring in CNN Senior Justice Correspondent Evan Perez and former District Attorney for Westchester County, New York, Mimi Rocah.

Evan, the Eastern District of Virginia, we should note for those who aren't legal nerds like you two and me a teeny bit, that's a big district. They handle a lot of major cases, terrorism. Tell us more about who this U.S. attorney is.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Look, I mean, this is a very important U.S. attorney's office. It's one of the highest profile ones because it is the one where a lot of national security cases are done, it is known as the rocket docket, Jake, and it is known for being one of the places where if you want cases, if you're a federal prosecutors and you want a case done quickly, this is the district that you want to bring it to. And Erik Siebert has been serving there.

And, by the way, the president -- the idea that he's bringing up this blue slip thing now, when he nominated. Erik Siebert, he would've known that the Democrats supported his nomination. That is how the system works, right? And our reporting indicates that, internally, what has been the problem is, more recently, in recent weeks, has been some questions inside that office about the evidence that they have against Letitia James. That is the case that is at the crux of this. There's a couple other disagreements, but that is the one that has the president really angry about, the lack of progress and certainly people inside the Justice Department, at least some people inside the Justice Department, believe that this case should be brought forward. And so the dissatisfaction with that is where is why this is now happening.

Now, Siebert is also sitting there still today in the office. It may well be that by Monday he will not be serving in that office anymore, but as of now, he's still in that office. And the question remains, Jake, who are they going to find next? And when they do find someone to fill that office, does it damage some of the cases that are pending, including, of course, the investigation against James Comey, who is being investigated for possible perjury and a number of other cases that are important to the president.

TAPPER: So, Mimi, we should note you were for formerly a former assistant U.S. attorney in the Southern District of New York, which is probably the biggest of all the districts. So, what do you make of all this?

MIMI ROCAH, FORMER WESTCHESTER COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Well, it's very disturbing. And, you know, I wish I could say surprising, although even in the sort of interference, the world of Trump administration interference in DOJ this maybe at the top of the list right now.

And the reason for that is, first of all, you know, the president doesn't get to decide and his administration what is and isn't a crime, that someone has committed a crime. They -- you know, in certain worlds, they can make referrals, et cetera, but it's the facts and the law, that as determined by trained career prosecutors and agents that decide whether something is a crime. And they announced that she had committed a crime before they even knew what the evidence was and before a prosecutor had looked at the evidence.

And it's kind of a through line to this idea that, you know, the president can announce that, you know, criticizing him on T.V. is a crime. They don't get to make the law what -- you know, decide what the law is.

[18:10:02]

And so the idea that a career prosecutor here who the president picked, he can't allege this is part of some deep state conspiracy, but that he said there's not enough law and facts here.

TAPPER: Yes. ROCAH: And the president's going to fire him for that is outrageous.

TAPPER: And just as an observation, I have yet to meet a prosecutor who wouldn't love to take down a politician. I mean, those pelts, they love to put them in their office. I can't imagine that this U.S. attorney wouldn't want to go after Letitia James. I mean, that's just my observation, but like it does seem to be something that prosecutors like to do, Mimi. Am I wrong, if the evidence is there?

ROCAH: No, you're totally right, 100 percent. If the evidence is there, it doesn't matter what party they are, you know, where they're from if they're charging an elected official is for, you know, one of the like crowning achievements of most prosecutors' careers, frankly.

TAPPER: Yes. No, they love to put those trophies in their case.

Mimi Rocah, Evan Perez, thanks so much.

A vote moments ago by that much talked about new CDC Vaccine Advisory Board, the members of which were put together by RFK Jr., you will want to hear what this board decided about the future of vaccines, the COVID vaccine, and others that will unquestionably impact you and your family.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:15:00]

TAPPER: Breaking news on our Health Lead now over vaccine decisions that indubitably will impact you and your children. Today, the group of advisers handpicked by Health and Human Services Secretary and vaccine skeptic and liar RFK Jr., this group voted to drop the COVID vaccine recommendation for all Americans. They're no longer recommending the COVID vaccine. They say it should be a personal choice.

President Trump weighed in just moments ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: So, I don't know exactly what the final determination is, but I had the vaccine. I was very happy with it. Here I am, right? I'm right here.

REPORTER: Have you had --

REPORTER: Bobby Kennedy seems to be undoing what you did with Operation Warp Speed.

TRUMP: No, I put him in there because I want to have opposite views. That's okay.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Joining us now, Dr. Fiona Havers. She worked at the CDC for more than a decade. She left in June citing concerns about the changes to the agency's vaccine process under RFK Jr.

Dr. Havers, there's a lot actually that this panel decided today. But let's start with the COVID shot. RFK'S advisory panel said you're going to need to talk to your healthcare provider but you don't need a prescription. Now, people are already struggling to get this shot ever since the FDA limited who is allowed to get it. How might this impact people financially and also health-wise?

DR. FIONA HAVERS, FORMER CDC INFECTIOUS DISEASE EXPERT: I do think that the recommendation that was made today is going to add confusion to who is able to get the vaccine. So, normally, if there's a routine recommendation, for example, everyone over 65 should get the COVID shot, anyone in that age group can walk into the pharmacy and get the shot without a prescription, and insurance will definitely cover it.

What they voted for was essentially what's called a shared clinical decision-making process, which means you have to like talk to your provider, which doesn't sound bad, but actually puts up a bunch of barriers to access and adds confusion to acquiring vaccines.

TAPPER: Do you think that all these decisions in tandem are downplaying the impact and potential of contracting COVID? And I understand now that because so many people have been vaccinated in the past, and also because there is much more herd immunity because of the years of vaccines that maybe the risk isn't as bad as it was, but what do you think?

HAVERS: COVID is still a major public health problem even though this last year we didn't see as many hospitalizations as we'd seen in the past. Still, the CDC is estimating that between 42,000 and 60,000 Americans died of COVID since last October, and there were hundreds of thousands of hospitalizations. Most of those occur in older adults.

So, what we're seeing right now is that COVID has kind of settled into a severe respiratory illness, kind of has been on par with influenza if you look at a 12-month period. So, getting Americans vaccinated against COVID, particularly in vulnerable groups, and that would be older adults and then very young children, children between, you know, 6 months to 23 months, like children under two. Those people in the extremes of age are at the highest risk for COVID hospitalization. So, getting people vaccinated in those groups and people with underlying medical conditions is really critical.

TAPPER: Very quickly, if you could, the panel also wants to restrict access to the measles mumps, rubella, chickenpox vaccine, MMRV. They don't want it to be given to children under the age of four. They also don't want the federal program, which includes low-income families to cover the cost of the vaccine. Quickly, if you could, what do you make of that?

HAVERS: Yes. So, they have basically just removed a choice for parents who -- to give that vaccine. It will no longer be covered and is no longer recommended. So, parents who want to choose to give that vaccine, and that is a vaccine that would allow one shot that would cover measles, mumps, rubella and chickenpox be given together instead of separated into two shots, that is no longer an option for parents, essentially, is what happened by them voting for that.

And I will say there wasn't any clear reason why that was removed. Like they -- this is a longstanding recommendation. The safety data has been thoroughly evaluated. But it is clear that RFK Jr. wants to make changes to the childhood vaccination schedule, and this was his first salvo into chipping away at it, I think, is what happened.

TAPPER: Dr. Fiona Havers, thank you so much.

Coming up, what Alex Acosta said today behind closed doors, as lawmakers questioned him about the deal he negotiated for pedophile Jeffrey Epstein. My next guest can weigh in with firsthand knowledge.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:20:00]

TAPPER: Our law and Justice Lead now, we've got some new details about the testimony from Alexander Acosta. That's the former U.S. attorney from Florida, and the former labor secretary who negotiated Jeffrey Epstein's sweetheart plea deal back in 2007, 2008, a deal that led to the now notorious pedophile serving only 13 months in prison, barely at that because he had work release for state prostitution charges despite his involvement with underage girls.

The House of Oversight Committee chairman, James Comer, now saying in a statement that Alexander Acosta cooperated with the questions today and his answers will advance the investigation.

Joining us now, Texas' Democratic Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett, she's a member of this House Oversight Committee. Thank you so much.

So, tell me, were you able to press Acosta on why he gave Epstein what a lot of people think was a sweetheart deal?

REP. JASMINE CROCKETT (D-TX): Yes. So, I was trying, but obviously there were a lot of members in the room as well as a number of attorneys for both sides. And so I probably could have sat with him alone myself and dug for days, but I specifically was also listening to him.

[18:25:01]

So, at one point in time he was talking about, they were basically gauging the strength of their case, which is not abnormal. That is what prosecutors are always going to do. And basically he said, as a team, they came to the conclusion that the case was just too weak and it would be better if they had a guarantee of getting him into prison, as well as being able to make sure that he was going to be a registered sex offender.

They did say they did not know about the work release or he said he didn't know about the work release and that wasn't part of the agreement. He says that, you know, he also -- well, let me back up. I basically wanted to know why is it that the case was weak, in your opinion. He said that he felt like there were going to be impeachment issues with the witnesses.

TAPPER: That the witnesses weren't credible.

CROCKET: And so then I was saying, tell me what the impeachment issues were going to be. Because it's one thing to throw it out there, it's another thing when I'm breaking it down to you, because I understand what is impeachable and what's not. And so he's like, well, some of them didn't want to testify. I said, well, that's not impeachment evidence at all. And has there ever been a situation where you've brought a witness forward who did not want to testify? What other evidence was there, there.

And if you felt like the case was weak, and most of us have rules where if you've got a statement from a witness and because of fear, maybe because of threats, because he said some of them were fearful, some of them allegedly had been threatened, all kinds of different reasons, man, there's ways to work around this. I say, let me tell you something. I have tried these cases on the other side.

TAPPER: Yes.

CROCKETT: And I can tell you that we have had people come forward with hardly any evidence because we have what we call a one witness rule in this country, which says that if you believe this one witness beyond a reasonable doubt, then that is enough.

TAPPER: Right.

CROCKETT: And so -- and it really comes because of sex cases, because a lot of times, who else can testify about what happened in that room?

So, I was really getting at him and he said, well, 2006 was a different time. You know, it was a lot different as it relates to the movement and what was going, I said, let me tell you something. I've been practicing law since 2006, so I know what was happening in 2006.

TAPPER: Right.

CROCKETT: So, I was really ready to tear in and really get down to some other things because I've dealt with child sex cases, and based on the little information that I know about what he had back then, in my opinion, he had more than enough evidence, but he was arguing that he didn't.

And I said, well, let me ask you this towards the end of the time that I was going to be there. I asked him, I said, normally, prosecutors consult with the victims. And there are some cases that I've had to go to trial on not because the prosecutor necessarily wanted to, but after they consulted with the victims, the victims were saying, no, I want my day in court. And whatever happens happens.

TAPPER: Yes.

CROCKETT: But that didn't happen, and that's why you had a problem. And so he gave all these excuses about --

TAPPER: And also they didn't alert the victims --

CROCKETT: Correct.

TAPPER: -- that there was a plea deal.

CROCKETT: No. He was telling us about all these conversations he was having, but he wasn't having the conversations with the people that were a part of the case.

TAPPER: Yes. This is -- it's such a cop out because, obviously, if you are going to prosecute a drug dealer, most of your witnesses are going to be drug users. If you're going to prosecute a pimp, most of the witnesses are going to be prostitutes. If you're going to prosecute a pedophile, most of the witnesses are going to be children.

CROCKETT: So, I don't know how he became a whole U.S. attorney.

TAPPER: Well, that's my question because --

CROCKETT: And did not know that.

TAPPER: So, I'm not an attorney and I know that.

CROCKETT: Well, listen, I've been in the court and I've dealt with enough cases. In fact, I mentioned to him that I once had to defend a serial rapist. And, frankly, he specifically went after very vulnerable women. He went after drug addicts and went after --

TAPPER: They always do. They always go after the weakest.

CROCKETT: And I was like, and he got a lot of time. That's all I can tell you.

So, I'm like, you know, obviously, I did my part as a defense attorney, but, I mean, it wasn't making sense. And even when I pressed him on impeachment, he never really got to impeachment issues.

TAPPER: Impeaching the witness.

CROCKETT: Impeaching the witnesses, the victims, yes, he never really got there.

TAPPER: What did he say when people asked him about any pressure that might have come to bear from wealthy men?

CROCKETT: He's saying that he never really talked to anyone else really outside of this, and then he's saying that he never really got into the minutia because my questions were more so like I wanted to skip ahead and be like, why was it not a sweetheart deal? Because he was explaining that he doesn't feel like it was a sweetheart deal. He felt like even today, looking back, that this deal was a good deal.

So, I wanted to find out --

TAPPER: It's so preposterous. What about the non-prosecution --

CROCKETT: I'm just telling you what the man said.

TAPPER: I know. I'm not faulting you. I'm not faulting you. But it's --

CROCKETT: So, I said, as you sat at this table, take us to the table and you're having these conversations. I said, are you not asking questions about how you can make the case better? Are you not asking, did you go and interview any of Epstein's employees?

TAPPER: Yes.

CROCKETT: And you know, there was this whole conversation about the laptop.

[18:30:00]

There was a lot of conversation about the fact that there had been a charging memo that recommended 53 different counts.

TAPPER: Yes.

CROCKETT: And he's like, yes, I know that that happened, but, you know, I called in these child experts.

And I also brought it to his attention that we have experts that typically come in and testify in these cases to explain away why a child may be inconsistent, because a lot of times the trauma that they have experienced at such a young age, their little minds may block out certain things.

TAPPER: Sure.

CROCKETT: And so I was like, I've had that happen a number of times, because I've also dealt with child sex cases. So, I mean, talking to him, I think if you've never done this work, maybe --

TAPPER: But he was a U.S. attorney.

CROCKETT: Yes.

TAPPER: Were there tough questions asked by both sides?

CROCKETT: We missed the first half, which was the Republican half because we were on the floor voting. By the time we got to the second hour, it was the Democratic hour, and so that's where we were participating, and then I had to leave and then it swaps back and forth.

TAPPER: A busy job, it's a busy job.

Texas Democratic Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett, always great to have you here. Thank you so much for sharing that. That was fascinating stuff.

My next guest news all about Jeffrey Epstein's actions. She's a victim of his crimes, survivor. We'll get her reaction to today's news next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:35:00]

TAPPER: We're back with our Law and Justice Lead, and the key testimony earlier today from the former U.S. attorney for Florida, Alexander Acosta, on Capitol Hill behind closed doors about that controversial plea deal he negotiated from Jeffrey Epstein back in 2007, 2008.

Here now with me is one of Epstein's many survivors, Liz Stein. She's now an advocate for the National Anti-Trafficking Movement. Liz, thank you so much for joining us. And as always, I'm sorry that we're talking about the absolute last thing you want to talk about. Before I ask you anything. How are you doing?

LIZ STEIN, JEFFREY EPSTEIN VICTIM: Well, I think we're all holding up. This is very difficult, so I appreciate you acknowledging that, but it's also very important for us to be talking right now, and that's really what's getting us through.

TAPPER: Yes. All right, well, let's talk about it. because house Democrats coming out of this transcribed testimony say, Acosta said that he, quote, didn't have the minutia of the case. And there was a lot of stuff he said he didn't recall. What do you make of that?

STEIN: I think that's incredibly disturbing that the man who was in charge of this case didn't have the minutia of it. It begs me to wonder why he wasn't involved in the minutia of this case. And, quite frankly, I don't know. I guess none of us know what he remembers and what he doesn't remember.

TAPPER: Yes. Democrats are slamming his demeanor during the testimony. Congressman Maxwell Frost of Florida said, Mr. Acosta, at least to us in this deposition, essentially said, he didn't have faith in the victims, their stories and their ability to tell their own story and their own testimony. It seems like Mr. Acosta really had no idea about what was going on in his own office during this investigation, unquote. And you just heard Congresswoman Crockett say that Acosta didn't think that the witnesses would hold up in court.

Why do you think that is? Is it because the victims were young, vulnerable, poor, trafficked, teenage girls? What do you think was his justification?

STEIN: I think that what we see in a lot of sex trafficking cases are people's implicit biases against the victims of these crimes. And so I think that it's really concerning to me that there were around 32, I think, survivors who gave sworn statements to the FBI in this matter.

And not every survivor is going to feel comfortable coming forward or testifying, but I'm hard pressed to think that there wasn't something credible in all of those statements that they could have used. And I think that, you know, something that I've been talking about quite a bit in the media is that this is a sex trafficking case, right? And we're losing sight of that. And we really need to reframe how we look at people who are exploited sexually and take the blame off of them and put the blame on the people that the -- where the blame belongs, the people who are the perpetrators and the people who are the purchasers or the buyers of people who are exploited. And, you know, I think that it's really just maddening the way that we treat survivors.

I will tell you, Jake, that none of us would be talking about this if we didn't have to, but it's so important for us to be doing so right now because we're not lying. We are telling the truth about what happened to us. And we are going to be relentless in pressing that point because I just don't feel like Mr. Acosta is being completely truthful about what he knows and what he doesn't know. It would be highly suspect for someone in his position to not have more knowledge than he's claiming to.

TAPPER: The chairman of the House Oversight Committee, James Comer, talked to reporters before this hearing today. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JAMES COMER (R-KY): And so you know it, according to the victims and the survivors of Epstein, there was a lot of warning about the crimes that Epstein and Maxwell were committing, but yet it appears the government let the victims down and they didn't prosecute. So, Acosta was a major player in that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: What specific alarm bells ring when you think about the various ways that this deal, this sweetheart deal, let down the victims, the survivors of this Epstein-Maxwell trafficking?

STEIN: I think that it's important to point out that A. Marie Villafana, who was the line prosecutor after doing the investigation, wrote an 82-page memo and really suggested that Epstein be prosecuted.

[18:40:17]

And in anticipation of that happening, wrote a 53-page indictment that was never filed because of this sweetheart deal.

And so I think that there were some people in our government that saw the evidence and really understood the need for this crime to be prosecuted. And so I'm just wondering why other people in our government didn't pay as close attention or didn't see the value in what she uncovered.

TAPPER: Yes. Liz Stein, always, I thank you so much for this difficult interview and talking about something that is something that I'm sure you would like to erase from your memory. We really appreciate your courage.

STEIN: Thanks, Jake.

TAPPER: Coming up next, former Vice President Kamala Harris, in her new book, revealing a distracting phone call she got from her boss just before she walked out on the debate stage to debate Donald Trump.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:45:05]

TAPPER: In our politics lead today, the House of Representatives voted 310-58 in favor of a resolution to honor the late Charlie Kirk. Ninety-five Democrats joined Republicans in supporting it, 58 Democrats opposed it, 38 Democrats voted present, 22 Democrats didn't vote at all.

A vigil is happening right now at Utah Valley University, where conservative activist Kirk was shot and killed nine days ago.

CNN's Nick Watt is live for us in Orem, Utah, just north of Salt Lake City. Outside the vigil -- Nick.

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Jake, it's religious, it's somber. It's mourning, it's remembrance. But crucially, this is being billed as a vigil for unity. The watchwords unity, peace and respect.

The choir is singing let there be peace on Earth. We heard a Saint Francis of Assisi quote where there is hatred, let me sow love. You know, there was division on this campus before kirk got here. A lot of kids did not want him to come. A lot of kids did.

Since Kirk's murder here. There has been unity in. Just decrying his death. And you know, Jake, in some senses, this is a local story. I was talking to one woman in there, and as I was talking to her, she was tearing up. She said, you know, we were in a little bubble. We didn't think this kind of thing happened here. We've now been exposed to what happens elsewhere in the world.

And one way that they've been exposed to security, were not allowed to broadcast live from inside. No ones allowed to take in a bag. There are long lines for the security.

On the unity, I want to tell you about one guy and a MAGA cap. Red tie, inside. He and I were chatting.

He said, we need to figure out what we have in common. We need to treat others as we'd like to be treated ourselves -- Jake.

TAPPER: And, Nick, Charlie Kirk memorial service is taking place Sunday in Glendale, Arizona. We're expecting some very high-profile guests.

WATT: Sure. Yeah. The president, the vice president, Pete Hegseth. Marco Rubio, Tulsi Gabbard, RFK, Jr., Stephen Miller, Tucker Carlson, you know, it's going to be interesting to see, Jake, how the vibe -- if the vibe is different Sunday than what we're seeing here today, because today is unity, is mourning, is, I would say, love.

The people of Utah. Maybe teaching the rest of us how we can, how we should do it -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Nick Watt, thanks so much.

And to Charlie Kirk's family and to his friends, we again send our deepest condolences on this horrific assassination.

With me is the panel.

And, Bryan Lanza, let me start with you, because President Trump and Vice President Vance are both set to speak at Sunday's service. What kind of tone would you like them to set?

BRYAN LANZA, SENIOR ADVISER, TRUMP 2024 CAMPAIGN: Maybe this is where I differ from most people in the MAGA space. I would like unity, right? You know, I had a friend ask me, administration friend asked me just after the shooting, you know, what would you do? If you're in this office, what would -- you know, if you're -- if you're part staff, you know, what advice are you giving the president?

And you know, somethings got to be an off-ramp like this is -- this escalation. I come from rough neighborhoods. Violence begets more violence and then gets more violence. And so, I told a friend, a colleague, senior adviser said, listen, if I'm Trump and I want to have a moment, that sort of breaks the Internet and captures everybody's attention. I invite George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, Biden to the White House. And let's just have a debate, a conversation to show people that we can have differences. But at the end, we're still Americans. And there's something unifying about those differences, not dividing.

TAPPER: That's a lovely sentiment. And again, before I move on to something more enjoyable, perhaps to talk about, may his memory, may Charlie Kirk memory be a blessing.

So. All right, Alex, you have a copy of it right now. Kamala Harris's book, "107 Days", which comes out next week. There's a lot of juicy stuff in there. She reveals that Pete Buttigieg was actually her first choice to be her running mate, but she thought -- these are her words, not mine -- that a ticket of a black woman and a gay man, not to mention the black woman being married to a Jewish man, that that would be too big of a risk.

On Governor Josh Shapiro from Pennsylvania, "The Washington Post" reports, quote Harris worried that he would quote, that he would be unable to settle for a role as number two and that it would wear on our partnership. She told him that on every day she was president, shed have, quote, 99 problems, and my VP can't be one.

What do you make of it all?

ALEX THOMPSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: She's the most withering of Josh Sshapiro of all those people. She goes on for two pages about all the little things that she that he did that basically made her, you know, I think she came into that meeting thinking he was the frontrunner to be VP. And Doug actually really liked Josh Shapiro. But she came out of that meeting just feeling that he made faux pas after faux pas, including asking about being a little bit presumptuous, asking about like, what art he could get from the Smithsonian in the VP's office, asking details about the Naval Observatory.

She also says that Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona, she basically felt was not ready for prime time, that felt that he had never really been in a tough political scenario and a tough political race, and didn't think he had it. What it takes on the national stage. She goes through systematically several of the 2028 -- potential 2028 candidates that she could run against.

She sort of takes the kicks the chair out from under them, including some people, allies of Pete Buttigieg think that even though she was complimenting him as the frontrunner, that actually it was sort of -- he's not electable.

[18:50:05]

TAPPER: Interesting. Yeah. Wow. I can't wait to read this. This is good stuff.

She also takes a swipe at President Biden. A few of them. But this story was really interesting. Apparently, he called her right before she was about to step out on stage to debate President Trump in their one and only debate. She -- he was calling to say that he had heard from his brother that she was badmouthing him, and there were some power brokers in Philadelphia that weren't going to -- weren't going to help her because of that.

And "The New York Times" quotes her -- the book saying, quote, I just couldn't understand why he would call me right now and make it all about himself, distracting me with worry about hostile power brokers in the biggest city of the most important swing state. And he also said that his debate performance against Trump had not hurt him with voters.

What do you make of that?

MEGHAN HAYS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I mean, she is entitled to write her narrative. Everybody's been writing books, including you two, who've been writing books and telling her to --

TAPPER: By the way, let me say, kudos for writing a candid thing. I thought it was going to be boring. Keep going.

HAYS: For writing her narrative, I wish she'd be using her platform here to be fighting back against Donald Trump and his disastrous economic policies, and not taking swipes at other Democrats. I think we have not learned our lesson that we should probably keep our infighting and not air our dirty laundry outside of the family.

It's disappointing to see this in book form, but again, she's entitled to write her opinion. It's her choice. I just don't think this helps her with voters.

TAPPER: You're a communications professional. We can tell, staying on message, but what she should do. Speaking of the debate, former Biden chief of staff Jeff Zients from

the White House testified yesterday behind closed doors, closed doors at the House Oversight Committee about his mental decline.

Here's what the chair, James Comer, said they learned. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JAMES COMER (R-KY): Well, he went very far in admitting that Joe Biden was in decline. He admitted that, you know, the debate was a disaster. He said that he thought the president should have had a cognitive test after the debate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: We should note we reached out to Jeff Zients to get his view, and he was not talking. How big of a problem for Democrats do you think this issue, Biden, is going forward, or do you think it's kind of old news now?

LANZA: First of all, it's jarring to hear the accounts of the chief of staff to President Biden say that this guy basically checked out at 3:30 in the afternoon, and that the first lady is saying, let's not add too much to his schedule, like this is a very demanding job. And for them to perpetrate this fraud and say everything's fine, I think it's a problem.

You've got Buttigieg, who is a cabinet member. You've got Harris, you've got several people who are cabinet members who witnessed this decline and did nothing, and they're going to have to atone for that. And the voters don't -- voters right now, they have no answer, and they're not going to have an answer in the near future, because it's a very dangerous precedent. And there will be more investigations and more hearings to make sure that we never have this again.

TAPPER: Alex, before you go, you have a big story. I was fascinated to read about a big decision facing Democratic Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. This is the decision, run for president or run for Senate. How likely is it that she's going to run for president?

THOMPSON: Well, I think there's a really significant chance. And her team is actively pursuing steps to give her the option to do that. They have basically spent more money this year than almost any other Democratic politician on building up her email lists, her social media following so that she could end up being one of the biggest grassroots fundraisers in American politics.

Basically, one person put it to me, it's like, you know, she would raise $100 million, be one of the top candidates. And a lot of people that, when they have that option, usually run for president.

Now, she could end up running for Senate instead, challenge Chuck Schumer, who's up for reelection, 74 years old in 2028. And she's been doing town halls upstate, which is actually similar to what Chuck Schumer did when he ran for the Senate many decades ago. TAPPER: And she's also been touring the country with Bernie Sanders,

who likely is not going to run for president again. And perhaps she'll inherit some email lists from him, too.

Thanks to all.

We're getting some breaking news now about a Black Hawk helicopter crash in Washington state. The Army now says it believes four U.S. soldiers were killed in this crash. We're going to have an update on this next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:58:19]

TAPPER: We have some sad news in our last leads and our national lead. The Army, the U.S. Army now says four soldiers involved in a Black Hawk helicopter crash are believed to be dead. The crash happened Wednesday night in Washington state near Joint Base Lewis-McCord, just south of Seattle. The Army has not released the identities of the soldiers who were killed, or what might have caused this crash.

Also in our national lead and also in Washington state, investigators believe they have found the remains of Travis Decker. That's the man accused of killing his three daughters. Police say bone fragments were among the remains found, as well as closed, similar to what Decker was last seen wearing. The discovery was in the Washington cascades, less than a mile from where his daughters remains were found.

Back in June, the crime lab is now testing DNA to confirm whether this was actually Decker.

In our politics lead, the Senate today failed to advance either a House passed plan or a Democratic alternative to avoid -- avoid a government shutdown on October 1st. The short-term spending bill passed in the House, 217-212, with Republican Representatives Thomas Massie of Kentucky and Victoria Spartz of Indiana breaking with their party to vote against the bill, joining Democrats. Democrat Jared Golden of Maine voted for the bill, joining Republicans.

Coming up Sunday on "STATE OF THE UNION", a packed lineup of key newsmakers. The list includes Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer of New York, Republican Senator Markwayne Mullin of Oklahoma, Democratic Senator John Fetterman of Pennsylvania, and Democratic Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett of Texas. That's Sunday morning at 9:00 Eastern and again at noon only here on CNN.

Don't miss the big Farm Aid concert coming up tomorrow night here on CNN at 7:00 Eastern tomorrow night. John Berman and Laura Coates got the sweet gig on that one. They're going to be hosting.

You can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, Threads, Bluesky, X and on the TikTok @JakeTapper. You can follow the show on X @TheLeadCNN. If you ever miss an episode of THE LEAD, you can listen to the show, whence you get your podcasts, all two hours just sitting right there.

My good friend Erin Burnett starts her excellent show, "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT", right now. Have a fantastic weekend.