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The Lead with Jake Tapper

No Deal Between Democrat And GOP Leaders Leaving White House, Government Shutdown Looms; President Trump And Prime Minister Agrees On Peace Plan To End War In Gaza; Rep. Raja Krishnamoorthi Is Interviewed On The Looming Government Shutdown And Epstein Files; Weather Update On Two Weather Systems On The East Coast; 4 Killed ,8 Injured In Shooting At Michigan Mormon Church; Marine Veteran Charged In Deadly North Carolina Waterfront Shooting; Zohran Mamdani Reacts To Eric Adams Dropping Out Of NYC Mayoral Race; Judge Salas On Toning Down The Inflammatory Rhetoric About Judges. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired September 29, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

PATRICK MCHENRY, FORMER SPEAKER PRO TEMPORE: It's because the Democrats need this opportunity to fight the president, elevate themselves and elevate the issue of healthcare. That is the only thing they got so they have to go play that.

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yeah, but it's over a week. It's going a lot (inaudible) I think.

JOE CUNNINGHAM, FORMER SOUTH CAROLINA CONGRESSMAN: As long as polling comes back about the Virginia governor's race because there's a lot of people going to be impacted.

MCHENRY: Rossford (ph) has a plan

(CROSSTALK)

KASIE HUNT, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT & HOST: Right. Now we are actually out of time. Come back soon. Thanks to all of you. If you've missed it at home, you can always catch up on our podcast, but right now don't go anywhere. "The Lead" with Jake Tapper starts right now.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to "The Lead." I'm Jake Tapper and we're going to start with two major breaking stories in our "Politics Lead" today. Two momentous meetings at the White House today with major consequences at home and abroad. Earlier this afternoon, President Trump said that today would go down as one of the greatest days, quote, "ever in civilization."

After he met with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, he asserted that the leaders had solved thousands of years of conflict in the Middle East. We shall see, I suppose. A source now tells CNN that a new peace plan is in the hands of the terrorist group Hamas in Gaza. We'll explain more on that story in just a minute.

But first, moments ago at the White House, the president wrapped a meeting with Democratic and Republican congressional leaders. There are just over 24 hours to avoid a partial government shutdown. Democrats signaled that it's not looking good.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): We have very large differences. Their bill has not one iota of democratic input. That is never how we've done this before. Significant and meaningful differences remain.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Now, let's be honest. Washington, D.C. is quite used to flirtations with shutdowns. This one, at this point, does feel a bit different. The White House told federal agencies to start making plans for mass firings in the increasingly likely event of a shutdown. Also, a potential hurricane is rapidly approaching the eastern coast of the United States. A shutdown would likely disrupt storm response efforts there as well.

Still, President Trump had other priorities on his mind over the weekend. He posted about all the fancy gold that's been splashed all over the White House. He added that foreign leaders, quote, freak out when they see all this gold. It's an interesting thing to highlight, for sure, when his office is currently threatening to lay off thousands of federal employees for good. Let's get right to CNN's Manu Raju on Capitol Hill. And Manu, you've been talking to senators up there. What's the mood? Is this shutdown going to happen, you think?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It very much feels that way, Jake. The mood is very, very grim at this moment simply because it very much appears that the two sides are nowhere closer to cutting a deal in the aftermath of this meeting. Remember what the Republicans are calling for here. They want a straight extension of government funding until November 21st. That would not include any strings attached to it. They say let's negotiate any of the issues much later.

But Democrats have leverage in this fight because in the United States Senate you need 60 votes to advance legislation in the 53-47 Senate, Chuck Schumer, the Senate Democratic leader, has leveraged the demand what he wants. And what they are calling for here is to reverse some of the Medicaid cuts that were enacted as part of Donald Trump's signature domestic policy legislation, the One Big Beautiful Bill Act. And also an extension of Obamacare subsidies to help people pay for health insurance under that program.

Those subsidies are set to expire at the end of the year. They wanted that as part of this deal as well. But the Republicans are saying there's simply not enough time to deal with that and they say this is not the right venue to negotiate. In the aftermath of this critical meeting, Mike Johnson, the Speaker of the House, made clear that the Democratic proposal is going nowhere.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON, HOUSE SPEAKER: The problem is that Chuck Schumer and Leader Jeffries refuse to acknowledge the simple facts. Let's review what the simple facts are. As the Vice President was saying, this is the common sense thing to do, this is the right thing to do, this is the simple thing to do. By way of review, the House is getting back to the way the regular appropriations process is supposed to work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: And Jake, this feels very different than what happened back in March. At that point, the Democrats also had similar leverage as they were facing a potential government shutdown. But Chuck Schumer then decided he could not afford to see the country go through a prolonged -- a potentially prolonged shutdown. Ultimately agreed with Republicans, voted for that legislation, encouraged other Democrats to go that way, and endured significant blowback from Hakeem Jeffries, the Democratic leader and other House Democrats. This time, Jeffries and Schumer are very much on the same page.

[17:04:58]

In fact, in a matter of minutes, Jake, they plan to answer questions from reporters about how they see this playing out in the days ahead. But at the moment, the view on Capitol Hill is that a shutdown seems almost certain to happen unless a miracle happens at the 11th hour.

TAPPER: All right, Manu Raju on Capitol Hill, thanks so much. Meanwhile, the White House put out a revised version of a 20-point plan for peace in Gaza which includes the release of all living hostages in Gaza, scaling up aid. It names Trump the head of a new board of peace that would institute a Trump economic development plan for Gaza. CNN's Kristen Holmes is at the White House for us, Jeremy Diamonds in Jerusalem.

Kristen, President Trump, it does seem got Netanyahu to take action when it comes to Qatar, one of the main mediators of the Israel Hamas war. Tell us more about that.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, that's right, Jake. So in this original 21-point plan, there had been a provision of it that essentially said that Israel would not strike Qatar again, given what we saw when they went after Hamas leadership in Qatar. That is no longer in those 20 points.

However, what is -- what we did see happen was President Trump and the White House releasing a statement saying that Benjamin Netanyahu, Prime Minister of Israel, had made a phone call with the White House, with President Trump, and with the Prime Minister of Qatar essentially apologizing for that strike, saying that they would not strike inside Qatar again.

President Trump later describing that as an emotional phone call. The reason why I think we really need to point one part of this out is that they clearly wanted to make a record of the fact that Benjamin Netanyahu had agreed to this on a phone call. Usually with these foreign leader calls now in this White House, they don't release these kinds of formal notes about the call, a formal readout that we've seen in years past. Instead, President Trump gets on Truth Social and writes off a quick

few lines about anything he talked to a various leader about. This was written out very deliberately of what was said on the call and what was promised by Netanyahu. So clearly, there it seems as though this played into why this point was taken off of the 21 points, but instead Netanyahu himself making this call in front of the White House, in front of President Trump.

And then both sides, Qatar also put out a readout of the same call, basically reiterating the same thing, of making their note that he had said this.

TAPPER: Jeremy, what stood out to you about this plan, and what do you think the leaders of Hamas will do?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well Jake, I'm told that the Qatari Prime Minister and the Egyptian head of intelligence actually presented in person this 20-point plan to Hamas' senior negotiators just this evening following this press conference. But looking at the plan itself, it seems very difficult to imagine Hamas being willing at this stage to agree to it.

There are several issues in here that are red lines for Hamas, including notably this issue of disarming without the establishment of a Palestinian state. There are also several things here that seem to be worse for Hamas than previous proposals, getting fewer Palestinian prisoners in exchange for those 48 Israeli hostages. Israeli withdrawal lines, not quite as far in the initial stage of this deal as previous proposals.

So those are some of the bitter pills that Hamas will need to swallow in order for this to actually move forward. But there's also something really interesting about this ceasefire proposal in that it really goes beyond the model and the framework that we've seen in the past because there is also a path here where even if Hamas rejects this proposal, there are key provisions in this 20-point plan that say what would happen next.

And what would happen next is that Israel would be able to carry out its full-scale offensive in Gaza. But critically, Israel has agreed here whether Hamas rejects or accepts this proposal to begin gradually handing over territory that it has conquered in Gaza to this international security force that the president is establishing here that would be staffed presumably by Arab soldiers.

And so this is the first time that we have seen Israel publicly agree to any kind of mechanism that it would see it withdraw from Gaza and hand over territory to some international force. It will be much easier to implement that if Hamas actually agrees to this proposal and this transitional mechanism can take shape. But notable to see that commitment here from the Israelis to an eventual post-war Gaza plan, something they've really refused to discuss over the course of these two years of war, Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Jeremy Diamond in Jerusalem, Kristen Holmes at the White House thanks to both of you. As the nation inches closer to a possible partial government shutdown,

are Democrats willing to budge at all? I'm going to talk to a key member of Congress about what he's hearing within his party. And later, the disturbing new details about the gunman behind that horrific church attack yesterday in Michigan and the driver who then rammed the car into that scene earlier today.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:10:00]

TAPPER: Back with our "Politics Lead." Top Democrats and Republicans from Congress placing blame on each other for an increasingly likely partial federal government shutdown after meeting with President Trump at the White House earlier today. Take a listen to Republican Senate Majority Leader John Thune of South Dakota just moments ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): It is totally up to the Democrats because right now they are the only thing standing between the American people and the government shutting down. We're all in favor of funding the government and this is something that's been done routinely 13 different times by the Democrats when they have the majority. So it's -- to me, this is purely a hostage-taking exercise on the part of the Democrats.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Joining us now, Democrat from Illinois, Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi. Thanks for joining us, Congressman. What's your reaction to Senator Thune? He says if the government shuts down, this will be your party's fault.

REP. RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI (D-IL): That's absurd. They control all branches of government, and they just have to do one thing, which is try to make sure that millions of Americans don't see their health care costs explode.

[17:14:58]

As you know, premium tax credits for Obamacare are about to expire, sending about four million people into tremendous distress. And right now, all we're asking is that these people be spared triple-digit increases in their premiums.

TAPPER: I want you to take a listen to Speaker Johnson. I had him on "State of the Union" yesterday. This is his warning as to what will happen if, in his view, Democrats force a shutdown by not voting for this continuing government funding resolution. He's specifically talking about what will happen with nutrition assistance and health subsidies. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNSON: The WIC program is something that we all champion for women, infants and children nutrition. That would be held up. The Obamacare subsidies is a policy debate that has to be determined by the end of the year, December 31 -- December 30th, not right now. Chuck Schumer is doing this for one reason. He is trying to get cover from the far left base of his party because they've been hammering him for not fighting Trump. So he's going to try to show that he's fighting Trump, but he has absolutely no logical basis for doing so here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: What's your response?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Well, I think this is the first time that I've heard such emotional appeals from Speaker Johnson about the importance of WIC. You know, remember, what they call the Big, Beautiful Bill, I call the large, lousy law, is about to cut SNAP assistance for millions of Americans and cut health insurance from 17 million Americans. So at this hour to pretend like everything is okay, the status quo is fine, is unacceptable.

We need a change. We need for people to be able to be spared these health insurance premium increases that could triple and leave millions of people uninsured, millions more people uninsured at the end of the year.

TAPPER: Switching topics, as long as I have you, because you're a member of the House Oversight Committee. I want to ask you, you've been deep in dealing with the Epstein files. On Friday, the committee released a small batch of documents that mention Prince Andrew and Elon Musk and Bill Gates and Peter Thiel and Steve Bannon.

We should note, none of these men have been charged with any crimes related to Epstein or any wrongdoing at all. The Republican Committee spokesperson said that your party is cherry-picking documents to try to politicize the investigation. You're purposefully withholding the names of democrats in the files, what's your response?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: I think we should see all the files and we should know exactly who's in those files. Unfortunately, this president is not willing to produce all of them. He's produced them in drips and drabs from the Justice Department in response to a bipartisan subpoena from the Oversight Committee. We are within one vote of passing a discharge petition that would in law require the production of all files, but we need them now.

I met with the survivors of this Epstein sex trafficking ring and basically for them, they need justice, but we also need to prevent this from ever happening again. There are more than a thousand victims, as you know, of this sex trafficking ring. The fact that they haven't had justice in 20 years speaks to just how powerful interests are covering up what's happened and preventing it from -- preventing justice from occurring.

TAPPER: Democratic congressman from Illinois, Rajah Krishnamoorthi, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer is speaking right now about this possible shutdown. We're going to monitor his comments and bring you any updates.

Meanwhile, the police chief in Michigan today called yesterday's church attack that killed four people an evil act. What authorities are revealing about what led to the attack is coming up. But first, the hurricane intensifying just off the U.S. East Coast and tropical storms churning not far behind it. The brand new update just in on both. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:20:00]

TAPPER: We're back with the breaking news in our "National Lead" and a brand new update that came in on Hurricane Humberto as well as Tropical Storm Imelda. Two systems where even the slightest change could have a huge impact on the East Coast of the United States. Let's get right to meteorologist Chris Warren. Chris, what is new in the 5:00 p.m. East Coast time update?

CHRIS WARREN, METEOROLOGIST: Jake, we're getting closer to having two hurricanes off the U.S. coast here. Hurricane -- still a major Hurricane Humberto and Imelda here. And as we look at Hurricane Humberto, it is still a Category 4. Again, that is a major hurricane with the trend will be going down. So it's going to take a while for these to wind down.

Meanwhile, Imelda here does have signs that it is getting stronger, even though the clouds look they're condensing, that's actually part of it. Right in here, this is only 10 miles away, 65 mile per hour sustained winds getting up to 74, you're going to have a hurricane. So we're getting close to having two.

Now the path for this, one going around Bermuda, Imelda is going to be going possibly right over Bermuda. So hurricane watches posted there and Jake, when I put this in motion here, you can see how this kind of look like they're kind of working together as they go past. So, in this sense, Humberto, is helping to pick up Imelda and take it away from sea. It could have been much, much worse.

Just a few days ago, it looked like the heart of this one was going to go right into the southeast coast with the heaviest of rain now staying well offshore. So this right here is going away from the U.S. when it looked like it could have been going inland. So this has been a positive trend that is continuing because we did not want all of this to be going in this direction.

[17:24:58]

So this very heavy rain which would have been a very serious situation for the Carolinas, possibly even Georgia, is staying offshore. However, Jake, with the big winds and possibly two hurricanes out here, we're looking at some very rough surf and life-threatening rip currents as well up and down the East Coast.

TAPPER: All right, meteorologist Chris Warren, thanks so much. Coming up, CNN talks to one man who spoke with the Michigan church attack gunman just last week, and he shares the shocking term the shooter used to describe Mormons. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:29:52]

TAPPER: I'm our "National Lead," this morning you can see a man being handcuffed after he drove through a police barricade at the site of yesterday's deadly attack at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints chapel in Michigan. At this hour investigators are still trying to determine a motive after a 40-year-old Iraq war veteran began shooting at and setting the church on fire, killing four people, injuring eight others.

CNN's Leigh Waldman has the latest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Evil. This was an evil act of violence.

LEIGH WALDMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Congregants and residents shaken after at least four were killed in a deadly attack at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Grand Blanc Township, Michigan.

CINDY WALSH, GRAND BLANC TOWNSHIP RESIDENT: Everybody in my neighborhood, they're so devastated.

BRANDT MALONE, MEMBER OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS: My wife and my daughter were just up here on Saturday night for a youth activity. So it's a really raw thing to see it.

WALDMAN (voice-over): A Sunday service interrupted when a gunman drove a vehicle into the church, began shooting, then sent it ablaze, authorities say.

MALONE: A lifetime of memories is just gone.

WALDMAN (voice-over): In an exchange of gunfire, officers killed the gunman they identified as Thomas Jacob Sanford, a 40-year-old Iraq war veteran from a nearby city. Complicating the investigation On Monday, a 21-year-old drove a sedan through a barricade at the scene and was quickly apprehended by police. Photos taken by a CNN crew show what appears to be a long gun in the front seat of the car.

Authorities have not provided additional details about the individual or the motive.

CHIEF WILLIAM RENYE, GRAND BLANC TOWNSHIP POLICE DEPARTMENT: We are still in the process of investigating that incident whether or not it's related or not.

WALDMAN (voice-over): The motive in the attack remains unclear. Kris Johns, a candidate for a Michigan city council, told CNN he spoke to the alleged shooter a week ago while door knocking on the campaign trail. KRIS JOHNS, BURTON, MICHIGAN, CITY COUNCIL CANDIDATE: He did make the

statement that Mormons are the Antichrist, which is a shocking statement. This is somebody you're just meeting for the first time. He had very strong opinions. Nothing that was related to violence that would indicate violence. Just somebody who had a very, very strong held belief that really he had maybe a philosophical animus but not necessarily a desire to do what he did.

WALDMAN (voice-over): Eight people were injured in the attack and everyone's been accounted for, officials say.

SEN. ELISSA SLOTKIN (D-MI): It doesn't matter what party you're from, this kind of thing just chills you to the bone.

WALDMAN (voice-over): Michigan Senator Elissa Slotkin surveyed the scene on Monday. It's near her home.

SLOTKIN: No community can ever believe that they would be on the receiving end of an attack like this.

GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER (D) MICHIGAN: This place has been shattered by bullets and broken glass. And this might be a familiar pain, but it hurts all the same every time. We cannot keep living our lives like this.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WALDMAN: And although they're not searching for any more victims inside of that chapel that's been utterly destroyed here, Jake, we do know that it's a specialized team with the ATF is here working alongside the FBI, state and local police trying to dig through to find anything that could shed any kind of light on the gunman's motivations before he carried out this utterly devastating attack here. Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Leigh Waldman, thank you so much. Appreciate it. Also, in our National Lead, a first court appearance for the U.S. Marine veteran charged in the mass shooting Saturday night. This in Southport, North Carolina, just south of Wilmington, North Carolina.

Police say 40-year-old Nigel Edge approached a waterfront bar on a boat and opened fire on the crowd. The shooting killed three people and injured eight others. Authorities arrested Edge Sunday. He's a Purple Heart recipient who served in Iraq and who changed his name from Sean DeBevoise. In the past five years, he has filed at least 10 lawsuits, many filled with ramblings and conspiracies, including a lawsuit against singer and actress Kelly Pickler, who Edge escorted to the Country Music Television Awards in 2012.

He alleged that Pickler tried to poison him that night and most recently against the Department of Veterans affairs that was filed just last Wednesday. Here now to discuss both of these shootings, former FBI special agent and professor of criminology Bryanna Fox. Thanks for joining us.

So in recent weeks, the shooter, the Michigan shooter, is reported to have said Mormons are, quote, the Antichrist, obviously offensive, bigoted, horrific thing to say. Authorities have not publicly stated a motive, but that seems rather significant, no. Given the fact that this was an attack on a Mormon church.

BRYANNA FOX, PROFESSOR OF CRIMINOLOGY, UNIVERSITY OF SOUTH FLORIDA: Hi, Jake. Yes, absolutely. This falls under a certain designation where it's clearly ideologically driven targeted violence. And obviously this is something that we've been seeing a lot over and over again across this country, whether it's a political affiliation, but most importantly, if it's a religious group that can actually bring certain types of investigations and specifically like the ATF and the FBI getting involved.

TAPPER: There is an image of this Michigan shooter, the alleged shooter, social media account. It shows the suspect in a Trump2020 shirt. It's a photo from2019.

[17:35:00]

There was also a Trump Vance sign outside the suspect's home. We don't know who placed it. I think that I want to make sure that I'm noting that this is not suggesting that Trump had anything to do with it, but the idea that this person came from the left, this might undermine that, given the fact that there has been so much political violence, including from the left, in recent weeks and months.

I assume all of this is what, you know, is among what the FBI is looking at when they try to determine the motive.

FOX: Yes, absolutely. The FBI will be looking at everything. Things that seem maybe innocuous, like a yard sign that could have been for another family member or placed there, but it could have been relevant to motive.

But more importantly, is going to be things like his Internet search history. Back when I was studying the motivations and radicalizations of mass shooters and homegrown violent extremists, the FBI, that was something that really was difficult to do. To really get radicalized on the Internet, you had to really search it out.

Even taking out library books today, even with the advent of ChatGPT and other AI technology, this can happen remarkably quickly, so fast that sometimes people that know that person don't even know how extreme they've gone radicalization wise, until it's really too late.

TAPPER: Today, when the FBI special agent in charge of the investigation in Michigan was asked whom he believed the target was, take a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REUBEN COLEMAN, FBI DETROIT ACTING SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE: As this is an ongoing investigation, what I would say is when I say targeted violence, I mean targeted within our state and within our community.

(END VIDEO CLIP) TAPPER: How significant is it the FBI has taken the lead in this investigation? And can you explain what this designation of targeted violence means?

FOX: Right. Well, it's interesting that what wasn't said was that it was targeted at a religious group. And there could be a variety of reasons why that was not specifically stated. Maybe they are waiting for official confirmation of motive.

But typically, if there appears to be targeted violence specifically towards a religious group that now invokes different federal offenses, such as a hate crime, that means that enhanced penalties. So this wouldn't just be considered a violent offense. A lot of people don't know that just because there is a horrific crime like a mass shooting, it doesn't automatically put it under the FBI's jurisdiction. That would still be a state violation. Unless and sometimes this does happen, the state will choose to invite the FBI to help with the investigation, but it still will not be prosecuted federally.

However, if there is a federal hate crime that occurred and that would be investigated by the FBI, then they could charge that person federally.

TAPPER: All right, Bryanna Fox, thanks so much. Appreciate your time. Coming up next, the frontrunner in the New York City race for mayor, what he's telling CNN just one day after the current mayor, Eric Adams, dropped his bid for reelection.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:42:26]

TAPPER: In our Politics Lead, a brand new CNN interview with Zohran Mamdani, the self-proclaimed democratic socialist who is the democratic nominee for the mayor of city. And as of today he seems to have a much better shot at winning with the current mayor Eric Adams and independent suspending his campaign.

CNN's Aaron Burnett spoke with Mamdani just a few minutes ago.

And Erin, you asked him, Mamdani, about Trump's criticism, his attacks on him. What did he have to say?

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR, ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT: Yes, you know, Trump has obviously made this race a national race and tried to make Zohran Mamdani the face of Democrats or as Trump would say, the face of Communism. There are many in the donor groups of New York and outside New York, Jake, as you know, who are playing in this race. Adams was struggling to race money. Andrew Cuomo, who Trump clearly prefers, has a lot of money waiting on the sidelines that now may rush in. And that's the big question, what this means for Mamdani.

But Trump has made this about Trump, and he has made it not about Zohran Mamdani as the Democratic nominee or a Democratic socialist, but as a Communist. And I asked Mamdani about that. Here's that exchange, Jake. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: So the New York Times reported that Trump spoke with Cuomo on the phone, actually, last month, and about the mayoral race. Now, Cuomo's denied this conversation took place, but this is the New York Times reporting.

And as I pointed out a few moments ago, Trump has been very clear on who he backs. But it actually goes farther than that, right? He has attacked you personally and publicly like this.

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: He's not a socialist. He's a communist. OK? This is not a socialist, man. This is a communist.

I don't like to see a communist become mayor, I will tell you that. I call him my little communist. He's my little communist mayor.

We should never be in a position where we're talking about a communist. We're going to end up with a communist. It's not even believable. My beautiful New York. I think if a communist takes over New York City, I think that's. That's a gift to the Republican Party.

BURNETT: Last time you were on this program, you were unequivocal in saying you do not like capitalism. But Trump just, in those remarks there, I counted called you a communist eight times. Are you?

ZOHRAN MAMDANI (D) NEW YORK MAYORAL CANDIDATE: No, I'm a Democratic socialist. I've said that time and again. And I think it reflects the fact that whereas those critiques, whereas that identity would have been enough for Donald Trump in the past, now he doesn't even want to use that because he knows that the message of my politics is one that is connecting with New Yorkers across the five boroughs. It's a message of dignity in each and every person's life.

And what we're seeing in these clips and what we're seeing in what Donald Trump says is he's going through the many stages of grief. First, it's denial that this could ever take place. Now it's acceptance. And still, through it all, he is looking to use every tool at his disposal to help Andrew Cuomo become the next mayor of the city.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[17:45:05]

BURNETT: And Jake, you know, it's very fascinating to see what happens because as I was, you know, indicating, there is a lot of money that has been sitting on the sidelines that did not want to go big money. You know, some of the big hedge fund people, Bill Ackman, others, right, they don't want Zohran Mamdani for a variety of reasons, whether it be his economic policies, whether it be his policies on Gaza. They don't want him.

So they've been waiting for Adams to come out because they didn't see Cuomo as viable. Now all of a sudden, this money is going to flow in and it's really going to be important to watch because it is a national race. Barack Obama had a conversation with Zohran Mamdani about a month ago. New York Times reported on it saying Obama said how you run the greatest, the biggest city in this country is really going to matter. People are going to be looking to find anything wrong in what a democratic socialist is.

So -- but obviously Trump, we'll see what he said today, already weighing in saying thinks this is good for Andrew Cuomo. He'll have a lot more to say.

TAPPER: All right, Erin Burnett, thanks. Thanks so much.

BURNETT: Thanks Jake.

TAPPER: Can't wait to see the whole interview. It's right after this show, right after The Lead on Erin Burnett coming up at 7:00 Eastern right after this show. Let's bring in the panel. I'm sorry I sneezed. It's so cold at this right section of the studio. Am I wrong? It is this arctic frost.

Anyway, back to the story. Today, President Trump threatened to withhold federal funding from New York City if Mamdani wins. He wrote on Truth Social, quote, he is going to have problems with Washington like no mayor in the history of our once great city. Remember, he needs the money from me as president in order to fulfill all of his fake communist promises. He won't be getting any of it. So what's the point of voting for him?

I wonder if you think, Ashley, that this actually might help Mamdani. New Yorkers don't go --

ASHLEY DAVIS, FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY OFFICIAL, GEORGE W. BUSH ADMINISTRATION: What to do. And especially the Democrats are, especially Mamdani's Democrats are going to really come out because of that. And listen, there's two things that I'm watching here. One, if he wins, the person that's going to benefit the most from that is Elise Stefanik. She's going to announce her governor right after the race for governor. And I think that if there are bad policies that New Yorkers do not like, that's going to help her at the end of the day.

Second is you have people like John Castillamigas, who is one of the biggest Republican operatives in New York who came out today. He's been in for -- the president asked him to like kind of broker this deal to get everyone out of the race and --

TAPPER: Including the Republican.

DAVIS: No, that's what I was going to say.

TAPPER: Curtis Sliwa. Yes.

DAVIS: Today, what he said was to Curtis and he's been friends with Curtis for a long time and he said, listen, if Curtis doesn't think he's going to win in a week or two, he should probably get out. And that was the first time that he's ever said something, you know, that.

By the way, I -- there was a dinner I had the other week that with governor -- with the current mayor, excuse me, and he was not going to get out. So this was a fast track.

TAPPER: Interesting.

DAVIS: Yes.

TAPPER: Interesting. So, you and I just to go back a couple weeks before Adams ended his bid, a CNN poll, a recent poll showed Mamdani a clear lead, 45 percent. Then with Andrew Cuomo running as an independent with 26 percent, Sliwa, he's the Republican 15, Eric Adams says 9 percent.

You and I -- I think you and I talked about this, right. We assumed that there, that everybody who wasn't Cuomo or Mamdani would just split those voters. But it actually turned out, no, they all went among --

XOCHITL HINOJOSA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: They all got Mamdani, which I find fascinating in this. And I think this is Mandani's race to lose. I think he will ultimately pull it out. I think what Cuomo will try to do is, as Erin said, he will try to raise a bunch of money from the anti-Mandani movement and then he will also try to go after black voters.

He's always thought that he has a strength with black voters. I don't know if they will go to Cuomo, but he will ultimately try.

The fascinating part of all of this is that Trump wants Cuomo to win. And what I think is interesting about it is, yes, they've had a relationship in the past, but Trump's own Justice Department, which has been very political lately, has started investigating Cuomo. And they announced that earlier this summer.

TAPPER: Right.

HINOJOSA: And so I find it interesting that while Trump is kind of pulling for Cuomo --

TAPPER: Yes.

HINOJOSA: -- he has Pam Bondi also investigating him for what he was doing with around COVID when he was governor, an investigation that Trump has started back in the day when he was president. There was no there and they have reopened it.

So I just find it interesting that this is all playing out when Trump at the same time is trying to put his thumb on the scale.

DAVIS: I think you think is lesser of two evils but yes, I think -- I actually think Trump loses on this one but also this is like the movement of that Trump has. The Mamdani movement is just really like we don't like what government's doing. We don't like the establish doing. This is what Trump ran on and this is one and I actually think Mamdani just has listen he's been brilliant as messaging. He's been brilliant. Whether you like him or not doesn't matter.

HINOJOSA: Yes. DAVIS: He's just been same thing with Trump. They're brilliant at their messaging.

HINOJOSA: He knows how to play Trump's game.

[17:50:00]

TAPPER: And the other thing that's interesting is the democratic socialism. There's certainly plenty that people might criticize about it, but what he presents as democratic socialism, you know, free bus rides, grocery stores that the city runs in food deserts. It doesn't really sound like, you know, what we think of when we think of socialism. Right. I mean, like, but I guess we'll see what Cuomo does with that.

DAVIS: Yes, I just -- I mean, listen, Cuomo hasn't been great with being accessible to people. And you're right. I mean, he is, you know, you didn't say this. I'm saying he is an unlikable candidate as well. And so really, this is against the groundswell of people that are sick of government against rich --

TAPPER: Yeah.

DAVIS: -- New Yorkers.

HINOJOSA: Yes.

TAPPER: All right. Thanks to both you. Appreciate it. Coming up, a courageous judge who lost her son, almost lost her husband when her family was targeted. Next, her words of wisdom as the nation tries to calm political rhetoric.

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[17:55:08]

TAPPER: Now back with our National Lead with the rise in political violence in the United States, judges are on the front lines, increasingly facing death threats. The U.S. Marshals Service already tracked more than 540 threats against all federal judges this year, surpassing all 12 months of the previous year. Threats against state judges aren't even tracked.

A father involved in a custody case, for example, sent this graphic simulated attack video depicting a murder with an axe of a Florida judge. He's now behind bars for 15 years. He was convicted of making several threats.

We're joined by US District Judge Esther Salas, who was physically targeted in a deadly attack at her house that tragically killed her son Daniel and seriously wounded her husband. She's brave enough to join us today as a guest. Thank you so much, Judge Salas.

Judge, what do we need to do as a society tone down the dehumanizing rhetoric? JUDGE ESTHER SALAS, U.S. DISTRICT JUDGE, NEW JERSEY: You know, I think

that the Utah governor, Governor Cox, has said it best. We have to learn to disagree better. We have to have our political leaders from the top down begin to be responsible with the language they use to describe judges, their rulings and the justice system.

We need to start agreeing to disagree, and it really starts at the top, on down, Mr. Tapper. We need to really cut down this inflammatory rhetoric when we're talking about judges because it can lead to people believing that they need to take matters into their own hands.

And, you know, we can see the devastating impact that, you know, people are now doing all across this country in resorting to violence to address some, you know, anger they have. I think we all have to be impeccable with our word.

TAPPER: Yes.

SALAS: That's what we need to start doing.

TAPPER: Yes, we saw and it's from all -- from all sides. It's right and left and center and people that don't have any political ideology behind their insanity. It's so upsetting for me to even have to describe this, but your fellow judges received pizza deliveries with your son's name on the order. And whoever ordered the pizza was undoubtedly trying to terrify your colleagues by telling them, essentially, we know where you live and invoking his name. Have they been able to track down those individuals?

SALAS: You know, unfortunately, Mr. Tapper, I don't have a lot of information to share with you. I mean, we started seeing a rise in these threats to judges by the way of pizza deliveries that when you hear it sort of does sounds nonthreatening but these are pizzas that are going to judges houses at odd hours of the night and in 20 instances they bared the delivery bore my son's name, Daniel Anderal on it.

Those judges are being told we know where you live. We, you know, some of these pizzas were going to their children's homes and now, you know, 20 of them had Daniel's name on it. What does that say?

TAPPER: Yes.

SALAS: Those are acts of intimidation. Those are threats. And by the way, pizzas are being delivered to state court judges too, Mr. Tapper. The problem is we don't know how many threats state judges are getting because there's no central repository for this information. That's why Speak up for Justice, a group that I'm a nonpartisan group that I'm part of, we're trying to call shed light, not heat on the issues facing state all throughout this country.

TAPPER: You just had a middle school named after you in Union City, New Jersey. Tell us about how that helps you continue the legacy of your son Daniel.

SALAS: Well, I'm so proud of that moment. In Union City, the Esther Salas Academy had opened its doors to close to 800 students, seventh, eighth and ninth graders. And there judges will hopefully visit and teach the children about civics, teach the children about why we need to respect the three branches of government co equal branches of government.

We'll tell the children there that without an independent judiciary there is no rule of law. And we have to start telling the children and we have to teach civics because right now there's so much misinformation that our justice system isn't working, that judges are rogue, that we're out of control. Our justice system is working and judges indeed are following their oaths.

And it starts with us beginning to teach students about the rule of law, about the Constitution and about democracy. And so we hope to continue the civics lessons all across this country so that we all can start understanding why judges are -- why it's so important and critical for us to have an independent judiciary.

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