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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Shutdown To Last Until At Least Friday As Senators Leave; Sen. Markwayne Mullin, (R-OK), Is Interviewed About Government Shutdown; Vance Claims Dems Want Health Care For Undocumented Immigrants; Fact Checking Republican Claims Democrats Want To Give Free Health Care To "Illegal Aliens" Shutdown; No Clear Path Out Of Gov't Shutdown As Both Sides Dig In; Rep. Hakeem Jeffries (D-NY), Is Interviewed About WH Freezes $18B In Funding For NYC Infrastructure Amid Shutdown. Aired 5- 6p ET

Aired October 01, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Thanks to my panel for joining us today. Really appreciate it. Jake Tapper is standing by for "The Lead," which is live today from Capitol Hill. Hi, Jake.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Hey, Kasie. How are you doing? Thanks so much. We'll see you live in "The Arena" tomorrow.

HUNT: Have a great show.

[17:00:39]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: And welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper live on Capitol Hill. We start this hour with the breaking news in our politics lead. The federal government will be at least partially shut down through at least four Friday because senators just left Capitol Hill. They're off tomorrow for the Yom Kippur Jewish holy day.

This as the White House says, mass layoffs of federal workers are imminent because of the shutdown, which the Trump administration blames or blames on Democrats.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If this thing drags on for another few days or God forbid, another few weeks, we are going to have to lay people off. We're going to have to save money in some places so the essential services don't get turned off in other places. That is the reality of the government shutdown that Chuck Schumer and the Democrats have foisted upon the administration.

(END VIDEO CLIP) TAPPER: Republican leaders want a funding extension for the government for seven weeks with some additional money for security for the legislative, executive and judicial branches of government. So far, most Senate Democrats have voted to kill opportunities to even vote on the matter. Democrats are insisting on changes to health care policy, including extending Obamacare subsidies, which are set to expire at the very end of the year. In a few minutes, we're going to talk to the House Democratic leader, Hakeem Jeffries, Democrat of New York.

Meanwhile, tens of thousands of federal workers livelihoods are at stake. Thousands of federal workers working right now without pay. Thousands of others could even lose their jobs for good because of what you heard from Vice President J.D. Vance there. The White House Budget Office is threatening mass layoffs as a result of this shutdown. So what is President Trump doing about all this?

Well, a day after posting this AI generated depiction of Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries with a sombrero and a mustache, which Jeffries called bigotry, the president posted another similar video, AI of Jeffries with the addition of an AI version of multiple Trump's in mariachi outfits. Here's Vice President Vance's response when asked if these images are helping negotiations with Democratic leaders.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VANCE: Oh, I think it's funny. The president's joking. I mean, I'll tell Hakeem Jeffries right now, I make this solemn promise to you that if you help us reopen the government, the sombrero memes will stop.

Hakeem Jeffries said it was racist. And I know that he said that, and I honestly don't even know what that means. Like, is he a Mexican American that is offended by having a sombrero meme?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: I believe Leader Jeffries is offended because the notion of a sombrero and a big mustache perpetuate stereotypes of Mexicans. And also that this is part of a way Republicans are accusing Democrats of holding up the government funding bill because they want to provide health care for undocumented immigrants, which is something that we'll get into later in the show, but Democrats did not.

Anyway, where do the shutdown negotiations stand as of now? Let's go straight to CNN's Manu Raju, who is elsewhere on Capitol Hill.

Manu, any movement today from either party to end the shutdown?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: No, Jake. In fact, there are actually no negotiations that are happening. We are in the middle of a staring context between the two sides. The question is which side will blame first? And of course, the consequences so significant here.

The Democrats are demanding changes on health care policy. They want to reverse cuts under the Medicaid program that were enacted under the One Big Beautiful Bill Act. They also, in particular, are pushing for an extension of subsidies under the Affordable Care Act, those subsidies set to expire at year's end. Republicans say no negotiations on those issues at all until we reopen the government. And today, they put on the Senate floor their bill to reopen the government, but still fell short, five votes short, just three Democrats voted for it.

They need eight is a magic number to break a filibuster and to get this bill to President Trump's desk. They believe public pressure will build on Democrats who will ultimately support this plan. But I spent the day talking with Democratic senators, including ones who voted for a separate stopgap bill back in March. And I asked them if they are feeling the pressure back home, particularly in the aftermath of this threats for mass federal firings.

[17:05:06]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: But could blocking this make the crisis worse in your state?

SEN. MARK WARNER (D-VA): I'll tell you this, continuing for federal workers, for anybody that thinks continuing to simply say, oh, this is normal, let's just keep on rolling. There are obviously folks you must not have talked to many federal workers because that's not -- that's not what I've heard.

SEN. RUBEN GALLEGO (D-AZ): So using the threats of people they've been firing all year and treating like bad is not going to work on me, right? Give my people, the American citizens, the 24 million people that are going to have an unofficial tax hike happening to them starting November 1st, give them their tax premiums.

RAJU: Are you going to keep voting now?

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): Mistakenly assume that their position is popular with the American people.

RAJU: But you're going to keep voting now?

DURBIN: That's my plan.

SEN. MAGGIE HASSAN (D-NH): We need a bipartisan path forward in order to get to a deal that protects people health care and prevents their premiums from double.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: And those last two senators actually voted for that March spending bill. But you can hear their Jake, they are still no votes at the moment. So how long this drags out, it's unclear, but at least it's going to last till Friday, potentially through the weekend into next week as both sides are showing no signs of moving off their positions. Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Mana Raju on Capitol Hill, thanks so much. Joining us now to discuss Republican Senator Markwayne Mullin of Oklahoma. Senator, thanks so much for joining us. So we've talked -- CNN has talked to so many federal workers who are really, in addition to being upset that they're not going to be paid, which happens during government shutdowns, some of them are worried about these mass firings that are being threatened. Are you worried at all about the Republican Party getting any blowback?

SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN (R-OK): Well, it's the Democrats that's holding the American people hostage and these federal employees hostage. Keep in mind this -- what we propose is a clean CR. Meaning not one word has changed since the Democrats, Chuck Schumer and all those that voted no today a year ago voted on the same CR. They voted on the same CR in December. They voted on the same CR in January before President Trump was sworn in, and then all of them but 10 bailed in March.

Not one word of this has changed. So why is it now that they decide to hold the federal workers and the military hostage over it? I will say this, though, for all the military and the federal workers that are concerned right now, your -- the military pay went out in full today. Russ over at OBM made sure that was -- that was going to be happening. Also, all federal employees will be paid in full tomorrow.

Will this be -- will they be affected on the 15th and 16th? Yes, if the Democrats want to continue to hold them hostage. Because why? Because their hatred towards President Trump. Because what policy changes are they fighting against?

What is it that is so bad about this clean CR that they voted -- that they voted no against today? Why did they vote for it a year ago?

TAPPER: So, just to translate, CR means continuing resolution --

MULLIN: Continuing resolution.

TAPPER: -- just to translate from Senator Reese.

MULLIN: Thank you. Yes.

TAPPER: Continuing resolution, it's just a government funding bill. It means it's the same basic resolution as before.

What Democrats say they're fighting for is that there are these Obamacare subsidies that are going to expire at the end of the year and this is the time that they have leverage to force Republicans to pass them and otherwise people will lose health insurance.

MULLIN: Well, keep in mind, this -- this subsidy that they're supposedly talking about was a subsidy that -- that Democrats, when they were in control of the White House and the Senate and the House back in '21, voted to expire. This was a COVID subsidy. They always intended to expire. It was never supposed to be permitted -- permit. Keep in mind that they had full control.

If they wanted to make it permanent, they could have. But the sell to the American people to pay this tax bill, which was $350 billion, was to say, listen, this is just to help the insurance companies get over the hump because insurance is so expensive because of COVID going right now. Well, COVID's over and insurance companies are making a ton of money. Why do we need to keep the subsidy going? Why should taxpayers continue to fund subsidy for the insurance companies to get their premiums paid for?

TAPPER: So --

MULLIN: It's a hard position for them to explain.

TAPPER: So there are, as you know, no doubt, about 300,000 Oklahomans who use these subsidies that we're talking about, it helps them reduce their premium health care costs. Are you against extending them at all?

MULLIN: What -- what I -- what I'm against is continuing providing funding because it's not just the subsidy that they're trying to do away with. Keep in mind, they're also trying to strike the language, $1.5 billion to extend -- to extend government funding for four weeks. They want to -- they want the taxpayers to pay $1.5 billion, which by the way, is $600 billion over what our national defense budget is. And what they're trying to do is --

TAPPER: I think $1.5 trillion.

MULLIN: $1.5 trillion, yes, thank you. I appreciate you correcting me on that, $1.5 trillion, which is 600 billion over what our national defense bill is.

[17:10:06]

Now, let's think about what -- what that does. Basically what that strikes is all the fake -- all the fraud, waste and abuse that One Big Beautiful Bill went after. And one of the huge costs in that is funding taxpayer funding for illegal aliens. They're wanting the American people to continue funding insurance for those that should never have been in this country to begin with.

TAPPER: Well, so --

MULLIN: And -- and I know Chuck Schumer says that that's not --

TAPPER: No, no, no. I've looked into it, I know what you're talking about.

MULLIN: Yes.

TAPPER: I just want to explain to our -- our viewers. So there is a provision that the Democrats want to get rid of and part of it is Medicaid reimbursements, emergency Medicaid reimbursements to hospitals, some of which does go to undocumented immigrants using health care. They are to those hospitals. Some of it is also for people who are in this country legally but are not citizens, people who are refugees or people who have temporary protected status.

MULLIN: Well, actually it goes further than that because in the One Big Beautiful Bill it has a line saying cut and fraud, waste and abuse, specifically saying that Medicaid and Medicare benefits cannot go to an illegal alien. Underneath this CR, that it's going to cost the taxpayers $1.5 trillion to keep government open for four weeks, it specifically by line X's that part out.

TAPPER: Right. That's --

MULLIN: So it's more than just reimbursement. This has actually allows them to have Medicaid or Medicare inside if it's state funded or if it's federal funded. So it goes much farther than just reimbursement to hospitals.

TAPPER: Is there any off ramp here? Do you see -- are there any Democrats and Republicans talking about a way forward surely that they're cooler heads can prevail? There can be some sort of a coming together?

MULLIN: There's a lot of Democrats that would love to vote for a clean CR because they voted for it 13 times underneath Biden and they voted for, as I said, the same CR four times already. The problem is they're being held hostage once again by Chuck Schumer.

TAPPER: But if they got rid of the stuff having to do with undocumented immigrants and temporary protected status, et cetera, and it was just about the Obamacare subsidies, would you contemplate that?

MULLIN: I don't see where there's a point to negotiate when we're talking about a clean CR. It's not like there's language that we put in there. This is the same language that Joe Biden's administration approved. So what language is it that we have to adjust? Why is it that they're not OK with saying let's give our -- let's give Congress seven weeks, keep funding level, keep languages, everything exactly the same for seven weeks and give us time to be able to -- to try to finish appropriations, which we're not going to finish appropriations, we have 12 appropriation bills.

But the four appropriation bills, that's already out of committee and ready to be conferenced, those four bills alone takes care of 87 percent of our federal budget. And those could be -- those could be accomplished. So there's no room -- you know, my mama told me a long time ago, you can't negotiate with crazy. At this point, that's where I would consider Chuck Schumer, because he's so afraid of being primaried by AOC that he's holding the American people and his Democrat party hostage from us just simply doing something he's already voted for four times.

TAPPER: Senator Markwayne Mullin of the great state of Oklahoma, thank you, sir. Good to have you here.

MULLIN: Thank you, Jake.

TAPPER: Nearly 750,000 federal workers are furloughed right now across the federal government. Next, we're going to take a look at what it means for the government services that you rely on to keep you safe. Also ahead, House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries, Democrat of New York, will join me here as this shutdown wages on. We're back in a moment. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:17:49]

TAPPER: And we're back with our politics lead live from Capitol Hill. Day one of the government shutdown, how long is it going to last? I want to play more about that claim we keep hearing from Republicans about what Democrats are demanding.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: One of the things they want to do is they want to give incredible Medicare, Cadillac, the Cadillac Medicare to illegal immigrants. And what that does is it keeps them coming into our country.

VANCE: What they have done instead is to shut down the government because we won't give billions of dollars to health care funding for illegal aliens. That is what has actually happened.

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: While President Trump took action to lower drug prices and improve the lives and the care of American children with cancer, again, Democrats are fighting to give health care benefits to illegal aliens.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So is there any truth at all to what they're saying? Well, CNN's Daniel Dale is our resident fact checker.

Daniel, tell us more about this claim that Republicans are making about what Democrats are fighting for here.

DANIEL DALE, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Jake, these claims range from misleading to flat falls. So Democrats are pushing for an extension of enhanced federal subsidies for insurance purchased through the Obamacare exchanges that's scheduled to expire at year's end. But does that mean the Democrats are pushing for free health care for illegal immigrants, as the Trump team keeps saying, it does not. Undocumented people are banned from the Obamacare exchanges entirely, so therefore they're banned from the subsidies. Similarly, Democrats are pushing to reverse health cuts in the big bill Trump signed this year, notably including Medicaid cuts.

Does that mean Democrats are pushing for free health care for illegal immigrants? No, undocumented people are also banned from federal Medicaid insurance plans, though some states do provide some state funded coverage. Now, Vice President Vance keeps saying today, said in the interview, said in the briefing room, that people debunking this claim are wrong and the Trump administration is right. But listen to one misleading piece of supposed evidence he offered in that briefing room appearance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VANCE: If you're an American citizen, you've been to a hospital in the last few years, you probably noticed that wait times are especially large. And very often somebody who's there in the emergency room waiting is an illegal alien, very often a person who can't even speak English. Why do those people get health care benefits at hospitals paid for by American citizens? The answer is a decision made by the Biden administration that the Trump administration working with congressional Republicans undid. We turned off that money spigot to health care funding for illegal aliens.

[17:20:16]

The Democrats in their legislative text want to turn it back on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DALE: There are a lot of issues there, Jake. So first of all, hospitals have been required for decades under a law signed by Republican President Ronald Reagan to treat undocumented immigrants and anyone else who shows up in the ER with an acute condition, regardless of their ability to pay, regardless of their legal status. This was not a Joe Biden decision. Secondly, the federal money for this emergency care goes to hospitals to help them cover the cost of the ER visit, sometimes emergency care that stems out of that visit, it is not comprehensive health care for undocumented people. Third, Jake, the Trump law reduced this federal funding to hospitals, it did not eliminate it.

And fourth, and I think this is the biggest point, Democrats push to reverse this Trump move and give the hospitals back level of reimbursement would not give extra services or money to undocumented people. They would get the same emergency care hospitals have been required for decades to give them. Hospitals would just get more help, the old level of help in covering the cost of that treatment.

TAPPER: The vice president also referred to some immigrants as illegal aliens, even though they're not quite that they have permission to be in this country. Let's roll that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VANCE: Gave parolees, they gave asylum claims to people who weren't really claiming asylum. And when they waved the magic wand of amnesty, giving millions of people legal status even though they were in the country illegally, they also gave those people access to health care benefits.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So amnesty often refers to giving people citizenship. And that's not what the Biden administration did. But tell us more what you found on this.

DALE: Well, this is essentially the same thing we heard from then -- then Senator Vance, now Vice President Vance, during the 2024 campaign. You might recall that he insisted that Haitians who were in Springfield, Ohio, he wrongly suggested were eating pets were illegal aliens, even though they had some form of legal status in the country, a temporary protected status or humanitarian parole. And at the time, Republican Governor of Ohio Mike DeWine said that -- he said these are legal migrants. He said to say these people are illegal is just not right, you can't make up stuff like that.

So it is true that this big Trump bill took away some combination of Obamacare subsidies and Medicare eligibility from various immigrant groups, including many people with TPS or with humanitarian parole. It is true Democrats are trying to reverse those cuts among the broader cuts for Americans and other immigrants. But again, in this -- in this case, I think it's important to emphasize that these immigrants with parole with TPS have permission to be in the U.S., the vice president saying it's his opinion that they shouldn't have been given that permission, but they have been given it. That's simply a fact.

TAPPER: All right, Daniel Dale, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

Coming up, some of the federal jobs and services already impact as this shutdown hits day one. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:27:34]

TAPPER: We are back with our politics lead live from Capitol Hill. And we're going to talk now about the real life consequences of this partial federal government shutdown. Right now, tens of thousands of federal employees are working without getting paid. TSA agents, air traffic controllers, food safety inspectors, thousands of others are not working because they've been furloughed. That means they do not get paid and they do not work.

On top of that, there is a very real threat coming from the White House that some of these furloughed workers could lose their jobs for good. CNN's Rene Marsh breaks down the jobs and services that are already being hit by the shutdown.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RENE MARSH, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Anthony Lee leads the D.C. union chapter for FDA employees. He worked in the FDA's Human Food Program that oversees food safety and foodborne illness prevention. At least he did until today.

ANTHONY LEE, FURLOUGHED EPA EMPLOYEE: The majority of employees under HFP doing food safety work have been furloughed.

MARSH: So ultimately, what does this mean for food safety?

LEE: Whether it's a recall or a foodborne illness or outbreak, we need those experts there at the FDA to be able to quickly take calls and give guidance and answers to what should happen to make sure that a foodborne illness doesn't spread.

MARSH (voice-over): Workers across federal agencies face two furloughed, meaning no work and no pay or working without pay in roles deemed critical. About 750,000 federal employees will be furloughed each day of the shutdown, according to one estimate, amounting to $400 million in pay withheld each day. At the Department of Education, most staffers are being furloughed, although student loans and Title 1 grants will continue to be processed. At the FDA, limited work responding to emergencies but no new drug applications and some drug monitoring will be impacted, the Department of Health and Human Services, which oversees the FDA, tells CNN, quote, "Mission-critical, FDA activities will continue." On the other hand, most Homeland Security employees must keep working with no interruption for ICE and immigration enforcement or National Guard deployments to cities like Memphis and Washington, D.C.

Also still working without pay, TSA screeners, customs and Border Patrol and air traffic controllers, which could trigger travel disruptions, as it did in the 2018, 2019 shutdown when missed paychecks led to a sick out.

NICK DANIELS, AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLER AND UNION PRESIDENT: Add these difficulties, this unnecessary distraction into the mix, it puts controllers in a very difficult position. It does weaken the national airspace system.

MARSH (voice-over): Social Security and Medicare benefits will continue. Meanwhile, food banks like this one in Kansas City are preparing for a potentially lengthy shutdown that could impact SNAP, the federal food assistance program that serves millions of low-income Americans.

ELIZABETH KEEVER, HARVESTER FOOD BANK: If a funding decision is not made by mid-October, we do risk those November payments that people would expect to see in their SNAP and WIC benefits being impacted.

MARSH (voice-over): National parks will generally remain open, but operate on skeleton crews.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Due to a lapse in federal appropriations, Joshua Tree National Park will have limited services.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're obviously going to do less business. No people, we're not going to be doing any business. So it's just really a matter of how -- how long this is going to last.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARSH: Well, in the private sector, Jake, businesses deciding whether to hire or fire likely will not have the benefit of crucial economic data like inflation and the jobs report, because remember, employees at the Bureau of Labor Statistics also on furlough. Jake?

TAPPER: It's -- it's worth pointing out, Rene, though, that members of Congress, members of the House and Senate, they continue to be paid during the shutdown.

MARSH: Yes. And one of the federal workers who I spoke to, that really angered him, that they're at home or they're working with no pay, but the members of Congress who couldn't get the deal done continue to get paid. So the federal employees know it, and they're not happy about that either.

TAPPER: Well, you want to get rid of government shutdowns, make it the law that members of the House and Senate don't get paid during shutdowns. And I -- I -- my guess is that we wouldn't have any more. Rene Marsh, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

The jaw-dropping scolding that one Republican-appointed judge just gave President Trump. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:36:24]

TAPPER: And we're back with the Politics Lead live on Capitol Hill. It's day one of this government shutdown. Kate Bedingfield is with me. She was the White House communications director under President Joe Biden. Also with me, Adam Kinzinger, who up until 2023 was to be deep in the mix as a Republican congressman from Illinois.

Kate, from your former position as White House communications director, do you think the White House and Republicans are winning the political argument right now?

KATE BEDINGFIELD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't think that any time the conversation is focused on what Trump and the White House are not doing to bring costs down for people that they're winning. So no, I don't think they're winning because I think the American people understand that Republicans have repeatedly said that they will not negotiate.

Trump said he essentially will not negotiate with Democrats on this -- on this healthcare subsidy issue. So -- so no, I -- I think that, look, I will say I think long term, I think the brutal reality is that the long term impact of the shutdown, we're going to live a thousand political lifetimes between now and the midterms. I don't think it's going to have a particularly long tail either way to be totally honest with you.

But I do think that as long as Democrats stay tight on this message about healthcare costs and continue to lay that at the feet of Republicans, I think that they are -- that they are helping themselves.

TAPPER: So the -- the -- the Republican argument, as you've heard, is basically, one, the Democrats are doing this for a lot of reasons that don't have to do with the American people, Chuck Schumer's politics and healthcare for undocumented immigrants. And also, hey, we voted for the clean continuing government resolution that, you know, which Democrats have voted for 18 different times. Do you think that they have the upper hand here?

ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't know. I think, look, had the Democrats started messaging this two months ago, I think they would be in the upper hand position. That message very simply would be, hey, you have all of government, you know, fund it. If you need our help, we're happy to chat. But, you know, there'll be a cost.

But right now, I mean, the Republicans, I -- I would say maybe a touch in terms of like if I had to be a betting man on who kind of takes the blame here, that it would be the Democrats. But it'll be interesting to see. I mean, it's so fun to me to watch a lot of folks coming on T.V. and arguing just to vote for a clean C.R. when these are all the people that I was begging to vote for a clean C.R. in the GOP, you know, back in the day. So hypocrisy is a thing that is pretty much all over the place here.

TAPPER: Yes. And Kate, we've seen how much the Republican Party has changed under Trump. What do the politics of the shutdown say about how much the Democratic Party has had to evolve and -- and has to keep evolving?

BEDINGFIELD: You know, I think there's no question that the Democratic base across the country has -- has said very clearly since Trump was inaugurated that they want to see Democrats stand up. This is obviously a point in the process where Democrats have some leverage. They aren't in control of any of the branches of government. So this is one of the few places where they have some leverage.

And there's clearly a desire, a hunger from the base for them to stand up. But I actually think that -- that picking this specific fight on healthcare is -- is good for Democrats across the board. I think this, you know, I see Republicans trying to paint this as, you know, Chuck Schumer is being led around by the left of his party.

Well, that's -- that's actually simply not the case. I mean, across -- across the country, healthcare has consistently been an issue since Trump came down the escalator 10 years ago. It's been an issue that Democrats have been able to effectively use against him.

Obviously, you remember his attempts to overturn Obamacare, which Senator McCain, of course, worked to prevent from happening. This is a place where -- where Trump and the Republicans are vulnerable, but Democrats have to keep driving and they've got to be disciplined on the healthcare message.

TAPPER: Aside from the Hill drama, the Trump administration received a scathing review from a senior judge, William Young, in Massachusetts, in an opinion that is 161 pages long. The Reagan appoint judge -- a Reagan appointed judge rebuked the Trump administration for trying to deport non-citizen professors and students who have protested the Israeli government's actions in Gaza.

[17:40:15]

Judge Young called it a, "full throated assault on the First Amendment." His review touched on masked immigration agents saying, "ICE goes mask for a single reason, to terrorize Americans into quiescence." He went on to, "can you imagine a masked marine? It is a matter of honor and honor still matters to us. Masks are associated with cowardly desperados and the despised Ku Klux Klan." Do you think that that rebuke has any impact at all on President Trump or Attorney General Bondi? KINZINGER: No, no. I mean, I don't think so. I think --

TAPPER: Even though it's from a Reagan appointee?

KINZINGER: No, I mean, look, the thing that's kind of really concerned me is that there's been this, you know, the country is so divided that there's almost nobody that can be convinced either way, right? You have your bases. And so I think the Trump administration has basically laid their argument and placed their bets on the fact that they have enough people in America that'll support them no matter what.

And, you know, short of the Supreme Court coming down and saying, you're violating this by that. That's maybe what -- what it also will have to come to. It couldn't embarrass them. I'm sure. But I don't think it's going to change anything. I do think the idea of agents wearing masks, not identifying themselves, there's going to be a day when somebody is going to pretend to be an ICE agent or a day when an ICE agent is misidentified as somebody who's an attacker and something bad is going to happen. It's a frightening situation, I think.

TAPPER: All right. Adam Kinzinger and Kate Bedingfield, thanks to both of you.

House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries just arrived to our set here on Capitol Hill one day into the shutdown. Does he -- does he see any exit ramp here, any plan for this to end? We're going to ask him next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:46:00]

TAPPER: And we're back with our Politics Lead, the government shutdown, the spending talks still made here in Capitol Hill. Democrats so far not willing to bend on their demands for Obamacare subsidies to be extended and more. Here with me now is the leader of the Democrats in the House, Minor -- Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries, Democrat of New York. Thanks for being with me, Leader Jeffries.

So you maintain Democrats are ready to come to the table anytime with anyone at any place on any spending agreement. Vice President J.D. Vance today said the President is open to coming to the table on healthcare once the government is funded. Where are we at negotiations right now?

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY), HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: Well, we haven't heard from the White House since the White House meeting on Monday. President has been behaving, you know, somewhat erratically in an unconventional fashion in the context of the government shutting down. Clearly, they wanted to shut the government down. Unfortunately, we're ready to work together to bring it back open, but to do it in a way where we enact a spending agreement that's bipartisan, that meets the needs of the American people, while at the same time addresses the Republican healthcare crisis that is devastating everyday Americans all across the country.

TAPPER: So you said erratic and I believe you used the word unhinged the other day.

JEFFRIES: I did.

TAPPER: Are you trying to draw a line between President Trump's acuity, his mental state, and what's going on here with the shutdown?

JEFFRIES: No, no, no. I'm actually referring to some of his social media posts, which didn't seem to make a lot of sense.

TAPPER: The sombrero and the mustache?

JEFFRIES: Correct. Well, it would seem to me that as the president of the United States, on the brink of a government shutdown, if you actually wanted to bring everyone together to try to get to a resolution in a common sense, bipartisan way, that's not the type of behavior that we would see.

So hopefully, moving forward, whether it's President Trump or Vice President Vance, Speaker Johnson, Leader Thune, that we'll actually come together to have a conversation to figure out how we can get the government reopened immediately, stop this pain that Trump is inflicting on hardworking American taxpayers, and at the same time resolve the Republican healthcare crisis, particularly as it relates to the Affordable Care Act and their refusal to extend the tax credits, which is going to result in tens of millions of Americans experiencing dramatically increased premiums, copays, and deductibles.

TAPPER: So right now, J.D. Vance says he's talking to other Democrats in the Senate. Three Democrats, or three people to caucus with Democrats, Angus King of Maine, John Fetterman of Pennsylvania, Cortez Masto of Nevada, they voted to proceed -- to -- for the continuing resolution. They only need five more Democrats. Are you worried at all about the more moderate Democrats caving?

JEFFRIES: Not at all. In fact, what I think, constructive conversations are positive. I don't know that these conversations have been constructive because for the last several months, what we've seen from the Trump administration is that they've adopted a my way or the highway approach. Now, if you adopt a my way or highway approach, and then you drop on us a partisan spending bill that continues to gut the healthcare of the American people, then the reality is they are going to drive us toward the government shutdown.

TAPPER: The partisan spending bill, is that the one big beautiful bill or the continuing resolution? Because this continuing resolution just funds the government at the current level.

JEFFRIES: Well, actually, the continuing resolution that they have presented to the Congress is a partisan bill. House Democrats voted against it in March because it hurt veterans, hurt seniors, hurt children, hurt child care affordability, hurt housing affordability, and hurt healthcare, which is why we opposed it.

TAPPER: You're saying that Chuck Schumer then voted for a Republican partisan bill because he voted for that so did nine other Democrats in the March. JEFFRIES: Well, Chuck Schumer did explain his views on the merits of that bill at the time. I don't think he ever disputed that there were challenging parts of that legislation. The partisan bill is the one that's before us now. A bipartisan agreement on spending had actually been reached in December, bipartisan majorities in the House and the Senate. Joe Biden signed it into law. Then President-elect Donald Trump blessed it as well.

[17:50:13]

TAPPER: So let me ask you about a provision that the Republicans are talking about quite a bit. I know you want to talk about, and Democrats want to talk about, extending the Obamacare subsidies, which expire at the end of 2025. But they talk about the provisions, and it's right here, Subtitle E, and this has to do with the repeal of healthcare subtitle changes --

JEFFRIES: Yes.

TAPPER: -- and specifically what it is. They -- they're -- how they characterize -- characterize it is, you want to give health insurance to undocumented immigrants. I understand that's not really an accurate depiction, but what it does do is --

JEFFRIES: That's a lie.

TAPPER: It's a lie. But what you support does bring back funding for emergency Medicaid to hospitals, some of which does pay for undocumented immigrants and people who don't have health insurance. And also there is this provision, and it's not about undocumented immigrants, it's about people with asylum seekers and people with temporary protected status, et cetera, et cetera, but about their ability to get Medicaid. So they're non-citizens, they're not undocumented, they're not illegal. Why even include that in a bill, knowing that they're going to seize right upon that and use that to message? I understand that when you retake the House, you can get whatever you want passed, but at this point?

JEFFRIES: Well, what we're doing is fighting to protect the healthcare of the American people against the largest cut to Medicaid ever, 14 million American citizens are going to lose their healthcare as a result of what Republicans did.

TAPPER: We're not talking about the subsidies again, but I'm talking about the non-citizens.

JEFFRIES: No, no, no, no, I'm talking about the Medicaid cuts that document that you just showed me, that was the one big ugly bill, 14 million Americans are going to lose access to healthcare. Their hospitals, their nursing homes, their community-based health clinics are closing because of what the Republicans have done.

These are hard-working American taxpayers. And the Republicans know they're lying about this issue. By the way, current federal law is clear, taxpayer dollars cannot be spent on Medicaid or Medicare or the Affordable Care Act related to undocumented immigrants, and not a single Democrat has raised the issue of trying to reverse that federal law. What we are trying to do is save the healthcare of the American people, lower their costs, and cancel these cuts.

TAPPER: Do you not think that the provisions that provide healthcare for non-citizens muddies that message?

JEFFRIES: No. You're referring to emergency care --

TAPPER: Yes.

JEFFRIES: -- that some states might administer based on state law. We're talking about federal law. We don't have the ability to change state law.

TAPPER: So let me ask you about -- about this threat from Ross Vought, the Director of the Office of Management and Budget. He announced that the White House was, Vought, I'm sorry. He announced that the White House was freezing roughly $18 billion in New York City infrastructure, "due to unconstitutional DEI principles." He added, "that's going to impact the Hudson Tunnel project and the Second Avenue subway." I doubt it's a coincidence that you and Leader Schumer are both from New York, probably even occasionally ride that subway or use that tunnel. What's your response?

JEFFRIES: Well, it's an attack on working-class Americans. It's an attack on good-paying union jobs. It's an attack on teachers and social workers and nurses and firefighters and police officers who are going to rely upon the transportation that will be enhanced by those projects, not just in New York City, but in New York State as well as in New Jersey and in Connecticut.

It's interesting to me. I wonder why Mike Lawler or others haven't said anything. It's going to have an adverse impact on his constituents. But this is the type of thing that we've seen from the Trump administration. These people are obsessed with retribution, as opposed to actually doing what they promised. They promised, Jake, to lower the high cost of living on day one.

But costs aren't going down in America. Costs are going up. Inflation is going up. America's too expensive. The Trump tariff are -- is making life more unaffordable for millions of Americans who are paying thousands of dollars more a year because of the erratic Republican policies. And now they actually are going after these economic development job-creating engines to hurt not Democrats or Republicans, to hurt hardworking American taxpayers.

TAPPER: One last thing before you go. I know you said you thought it was racist and bigoted, that sombrero and mustache A.I. image that -- that President Trump put out.

JEFFRIES: That wasn't simply my characterization. That was a broad characterization by a broad number of people.

TAPPER: J.D. Vance said he thought it was funny. Vice President Vance said he thought it was funny. And he said he didn't understand why you thought it was racist, because you're not of Mexican heritage. JEFFRIES: It was a xenophobic stereotype, which is why we've heard from many Latino organizations denouncing what took place. But the broader issue, I'm not going to dwell on the President's erratic behavior in terms of the meme or the A.I. deepfake videos. The broader problem is it's deeply unserious. And this is a serious moment. We need to reopen the government.

[17:55:05]

We need to enact a spending agreement that's bipartisan, that actually meets the needs of the American people. And we need to address the Republican healthcare crisis.

TAPPER: Democratic Leader of the House of Representatives, Hakeem Jeffries of New York, thank you so much.

JEFFRIES: Thank you.

TAPPER: Good to see you as always.

JEFFRIES: Good to see you.

TAPPER: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. I'm live on Capitol Hill. The breaking news and the lead tonight, nearly one full day into the partial federal government shutdown and the political blame game is going on in full force right now. Democrats refusing to budge. A vast majority insisting they will never vote for a clean funding bill that the Republicans have put up unless Republicans agree to tack on subsidies that would help Americans afford Obamacare coverage as well as if they agree to reverse deep cuts to Medicaid -- Medicaid that were part of Trump's one big beautiful bill.

[18:00:02]

Republican leaders insist this would grant healthcare to undocumented immigrants. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They want to give healthcare --