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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump Admin Vows To Fire Federal Workers, Cut Blue-State Funding; Sources: Out-Of-Office Messages Blaming Democrats For Shutdown Sent From Furloughed Fed Workers' Accounts Without Consent; Unions Sue Trump Admin To Block Firings Amid Govt. Shutdown; FDA Approves A New Generic Abortion Pill; New Film Spotlights Library Workers Standing Up To Book Bans; Report: U.K. Paid $67K To Replace U.S. Flags Ahead Of Trump Visit; Halloween Retailers Increase Pricing Amid Trump's Tariffs. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired October 02, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: All right. Thanks to my panel for joining us today. Really appreciate it. Thanks to all of you at home for joining as well. Don't forget if you've missed any of today's show or any of our shows, you always catch up by listening to The Arenas podcast, just scan that QR code below.

Follow along wherever you get your podcasts. You can also follow us on X and Instagram at the arenacnn. Don't go anywhere, "The Lead" with Erica Hill filling in for Jake Tapper starts right now.

[17:00:45]

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: The White House says shutdown related firings could be in the thousands. The Lead starts right now.

Shut down day two and neither side is budging. Democrats already signaling they'll block a vote to reopen the government as federal workers wait to learn just how this may go on. Plus, a synagogue attacked on Yom Kippur, the holiest day on the Jewish calendar. The attacker driving a car into a crowd and then stabbing them. The added sense of fear with anti-Semitic attacks on the rise in the U.K.

And the cost of candy decorations, the ghosts, the goblins, Halloween prices could hit a record this year. That's no treat. What one retailer told CNN is mainly to blame.

And welcome to The Lead. I'm Erica Hill, in for Jake Tapper today. We begin this hour with our politics lead and day two of the government shutdown. An update as well on the White House's warnings of that mass firings of federal workers are imminent. Well, the word now is that it's likely thousands will lose their jobs.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We're going to start looking across the board at layoffs and at agencies that we feel do not best serve the American taxpayer that may need to be halted or temper or permanently cut.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: So it is unclear at this hour what specific jobs, which programs the White House is looking to eliminate for good. But in part of an interview released last night, President Trump continued to blame Democrats for the government shutdown and then touted his ability to cut so called Democratic projects.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There could be firings and that's their fault. And it could also be other things. I mean, we could cut projects that they wanted, favorite projects, and they'd be permanently cut.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Earlier today, the president said he was meeting with the Office of Management and Budgets Director Russell Vought to, quote, "determine which of the many Democrat agencies to cut," calling this an unprecedented opportunity. Meantime, the shutdown standoff between Republican and Democratic congressional leaders remains in a deadlock. And while lawmakers of course do continue to get paid, tens of thousands of federal workers are not many of them of course still working but now with no idea when they will see their next paycheck. CNN's Arlette Saenz is on Capitol Hill.

So Arlette, Senate out today in observance Yom Kippur, but they will be back tomorrow. Is there any sign though of a willingness to end this shutdown, if not even tomorrow, perhaps over the weekend?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erica, all signs right now point to this government shutdown extending into next week. The Senate is expected to vote once again on that GOP seven week stopgap funding bill. But unless there's some dramatic change, it's unlikely that they will get enough Democrats on board with that plan. And then Senate Majority Leader John Thune said that it is unlikely that the Senate will be working over the weekend. Instead of giving senators time over the weekend to think about the consequences of this shutdown and hopefully vote on it again on Monday.

This now appears that the shutdown will at least last until next Monday. And right now what we have heard from Democratic and Republican leaders is really another round of blame games specifically around those White House threats to potentially lay off thousands of federal workers in the coming days. Hear some of the exchanges that we had with Democrat and Republican leaders earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), HOUSE SPEAKER: If they don't and if they keep the government closed, it's going to get more and more painful because the resources run out and more things have to be reduced and eliminated. Democrats are the ones who have decided to inflict the pain, not the president.

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY), MINORITY LEADER: They've been firing federal employees all along. That's a shame. These are hardworking public servants. They need to come to the table. We can go back to the White House or they can come up here and we can have a conversation to end this shutdown. They're hurting the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: Now there have been informal talks playing out between Republican and Democratic senators trying to map out potential ways out of this shutdown. But so far those conversations have not risen to a formal negotiation or to the leader level. House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries said that they have not had any contact with Republican leaders about conversations since that meeting with President Trump at the White House earlier this week. Senate Majority Leader John Thune this morning did not rule out the possibility that he could meet with his Democratic counterpart, Chuck Schumer in the Senate at some point before the weekend. But he said that any conversations would only -- would need to center around real progress to trying to make this shutdown.

[17:05:15]

And Republicans still believe that Democrats need to come to the table on that seven week plan while Democrats are holding firm on their demands relating to health care. Erica.

HILL: Arlette, appreciate the update. Thank you.

With no funding deal in sight, it means continued widespread uncertainty for the thousands of federal workers who still have bills to pay. Of course, they have families to provide for. Joining us now, CNN's Rene Marsh and Sunlen Serfaty as well.

So, Rene, let's first start with what we know, what we don't know, I guess, about the Trump administration's what they actually mean when they say mass firings are imminent. Is there a picture that's starting to emerge of who or even what is being targeted at this point?

RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No, I think that still remains unclear at this point. We know that this morning the president said that he was meeting with OMB Director Russ Vought and that they would be hammering out these sort of details on which so called -- he called it, these are his words, "Democratic agencies" where they would be cutting workers, where they'd be cutting programs and discussing whether they would be permanent cuts or temporary cuts. But we should point out that before the shutdown officially went into effect, vote had already gotten the wheels turning in this direction. In a memo to agency heads, he told them to consider mass layoffs for employees working on programs and projects whose funding will lapse. And there's no other source of funding available.

And it's also not aligned with the president's agenda. So those were the three criteria for people working in programs that they say they would cut. Right now, again, not clear which agencies will see these mass layoffs. We know that the White House said today that the number would be in the thousands. But what is also happening here simultaneously are cuts to programs that the Trump administration frankly does not like.

Vought announced on social media yesterday nearly $8 billion in funding for what he's calling the Green New Scam, which was essentially funding for clean energy products and projects in Democratic led states, they had been canceled.

What is worth noting here, Erika, is what's different with this shutdown in shutdown compared to shutdowns in the past. We're seeing the president out front and in center, not necessarily negotiating an end to the shutdown, but instead saying he'd use it as a, quote, "unprecedented opportunity" to really make things painful for the Democrats and ultimately continue to hollow out the federal workforce as he had been doing and eliminate programs that he doesn't like. And that is very different from what we have seen with past shutdowns, Erica.

HILL: Yes, it certainly is. And Sunlen, I know you also have some new reporting specifically regarding furloughed workers at the Department of Education. What have you learned?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Erica. Multiple Department of Education employees told me they're disturbed and feel violated, but something that they're seeing happen specifically to the out-of-office messages that they have sent out from their own e-mail. They say these out-of-office messages are being changed without their knowledge and without their consent. Now, the employees say they were originally instructed to post a generic out office message indicating that the shutdown is happening, that they would get back to them. But they say that the actual message that is going out when people e-mail them is not that, it's been altered, it's been changed, and it's been this very partisan hit at Senate Democrats in that message saying that they are to blame for the shutdown.

And that's causing a lot of anxiety among federal workers at the Department of Education because they didn't sign on to that. They, in fact one told me they went in twice today, went to rechanged the message back and then it was overridden two times. So this is an aggressive use of an out office e-mail to really hammer down the administration's point. Now, the Department of Education did just get back to me when I asked them for clarity about what was happening and why this is happening. All they said, Erica, is quote, "The e-mail reminds those who reach out to the Department of Education employees that we cannot respond because Senate Democrats are refusing to vote for a clean CR and fund the government.

Where's the lie?" And some federal workers I talked to, they raised concerns about if this is a violation of the Hatch Act, of course, that states federal government employees are required to perform their duties in a nonpartisan manner. Erica.

HILL: Yes, which was one of my questions as well. So it'd be interesting to see where that falls. And understandably there are concerns if they could be held responsible if they didn't actually change it. It's quite different, I know, from you're saying their initial was just a generic out office, right?

SERFATY: That's right. It was just a generic out office. And I have an example we can compare. This is the first out office message that they were originally instructed to put out. It says, thanks for your e- mail.

[17:10:04]

There's a temporary shutdown of the U.S. government due to a laps in appropriations. I'll respond to your message. That's just a brief cliff notes of it. But the changed message that, again, these employees did not approve and did not know was happening, it says, unfortunately Democrat senators are blocking passes of HR, that's the House bill in the Senate which has led to a lapse in appropriation. So again, just really speaks to the extraordinary measures this administration is taking to drill down on their message of who they believe is to blame for this.

HILL: Yes, certainly. Meantime, we -- we're also hearing from unions, Rene, the unions for federal workers. They're really trying to fight back and even blunt some of this in advance.

MARSH: Yes, they were and they are. AFGE, that is the largest union representing federal workers, we know that they filed a lawsuit calling these mass firings that the Trump administration says are on the horizon, they say that it's not legal. They are arguing that it is an abuse of power. But they also point out that this plan that Russ Vought wants for these agencies to make these plans for these mass firings would mean that workers would have to essentially perform work in order -- during a shutdown in order to carry that plan out. Pulling out a quote from the lawsuit, they say, the union says, it's a "cynical use of federal employees as a pawn in the congressional deliberations and that should be declared unlawful."

So the union has not been afraid to file these lawsuits. And this is the latest battle that they are going to bat for these federal workers saying that the law does not allow for -- in the midst of a shutdown for jobs to be eliminated. And truly that we have not seen anything like that in the past. Usually during a shutdown, workers are indeed furloughed. And once the shutdown is over, they regain their positions, they receive back pay.

But what the Trump administration wants to do is quite different. They want to actually use this as a moment to actually eliminate positions. Erica.

HILL: Yes, certainly a shutdown unlike any other in many ways. Rene Marsh, Sunlen Serfaty, appreciate the reporting. Thank you both.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sure.

HILL: Up next here, that deadly synagogue attack today in Manchester, England. What authorities are learning about the attacker who drove a car into a crowd they say and then later stabbed victims killing two. CNN's live on the scene. Plus, the rationale that President Trump is using in telling Congress to authorize deadly strikes on suspected drug boats. That's ahead.

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[17:16:48]

HILL: In our world lead a car ramming and stabbing attack outside a synagogue in Manchester, England, leaving two people dead and four hospitalized. The attack coming of course, in Yom Kippur, which is the holiest day on the Jewish calendar. Authorities calling the attack a terrorist incident. One suspect, identified by police as a 35-year-old British citizen of Syrian descent is dead. Three others have been arrested in connection with the attack.

CNN's Nic Robertson is on the scene, joining us now with more. I do want to warn you some of these images may be disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody out.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice-over): As the injured lay in the street, armed police shout at the alleged attacker, whom they say was wearing what appeared to be an explosive device, then shoot as he refuses to comply. The deadly events unfolding early Thursday morning outside a synagogue in the northern city Manchester, on the holiest day of the year for the Jewish community, Yom Kippur.

LAURENCE TAYLOR, HEAD, UNITED KINGDOM COUNTER TERRORISM POLICE: Two people have died. The attacker has been shot dead by the police. We have also made two further arrests. And based on what we know, counterterrorism policing has declared this as a terrorist incident.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): A little earlier, in a quiet residential street a quarter of a mile from the synagogue, a heavy police presence as two men, seen here in this exclusive CNN video, arrested and taken away. Events of the day, shocking witnesses.

VICKY, LIVES NEAR SYNAGOGUE: Our neighbor across the road, he goes to the synagogue and he was telling us what was going on. And it's just absolutely frightening because I'm scared for my own safety and my mom's safety.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Police also praising the public for their quick actions preventing even more bloodshed.

CHIEF CONSTABLE SIR STEPHEN WATSON, GREATER MANCHESTER POLICE: There were a large number of worshippers attending the synagogue at the time of this attack. But thanks to the immediate bravery of security staff and the worshippers inside, as well as the fast response of the police, the attacker was prevented from gaining access.

ROBERTSON: The attack so serious, the British Prime Minister cut short a trip to Denmark, returning in a hurry to the U.K. to chair a meeting of his top security officials. KEIR STARMER, U.K. PRIME MINISTER: I'm already able to say that additional police assets are being deployed to synagogues across the country and we will do everything to keep our Jewish community safe.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): For some, it will feel too little, too late. Across the U.K., anti-Semitic attacks have been on the rise, so too the fear that something like this could happen.

VICKY: We do have Orthodox people on this road, they're probably not safe now and we have lots of children for somebody to know today's Yom Kippur. I just feel this has been definitely planned.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON (on camera): Yes. And that's the impression that the police are creating, releasing new information now, saying that additional to those two earlier arrests or perhaps more details about the two earlier requests, two 30-year-old men were arrested and they say a 60- year-old woman for commission preparation and instigation of acts of terrorism. The police have also given details now about the attacker, naming him as Jihad Al-Shamie, a British national of Syrian descent. Erica.

[17:20:30]

HILL: Nic, appreciate it. Thank you.

Well, the FDA has just approved a new generic drug. Why that move is angering some conservatives. That's next.

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[17:25:04]

HILL: This just coming in now on the health lead, the FDA approving a new generic version of the abortion pill Mifepristone. Now, this isn't the first spinoff of the drug. The new approval, though, is already prompting some backlash and anger, frankly, from conservatives. CNN Medical Correspondent Meg Tirrell joins me now.

So, first of all, Meg, what are we hearing from the administration about the green light that the FDA just gave for this drug?

MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, they're noting that this is not an endorsement of the product itself and kind of pointing to some of the sort of obscure rules around how generic drugs get approved to explain why this got approved. They know that they have limited discretion in deciding whether to approve a generic drug and say, quote, "By law, the secretary of Health and Human Services must approve an application if it demonstrates that the generic drug is identical to the brand-name drug." They say, "Generic applicants are not required to submit independent evidence proving safety and effectiveness. They note HHS is conducting a study of the reported adverse effects of mifepristone to ensure the FDA's risk mitigation program for the drug is sufficient to protect women from unstated risks." But Erica, that last part is what makes this sort of awkward for the FDA to have just approved a new generic of mifepristone as it just disclosed in a letter to Republican state attorneys general that it was conducting the safety review of the drug itself.

HILL: Yes, it certainly is interesting timing, I guess one could say. There is already, as I noted, some pushback from some conservatives. What are you seeing?

TIRELL: Yes, I mean, Josh Hawley in particular, who has been really focused on this issue and pressuring the Department of Health and Human Services to take more action on mifepristone, put out a post on X today where he said, quote, "FDA had promised to do a top to bottom safety review" of what he calls the chemical abortion drug, "but instead they've just greenlighted new versions of it for distribution." He says, "I have lost confidence in the leadership at FDA."

We are also hearing from antiabortion groups like the Susan B. Anthony Pro-Life America, which called this a, quote, "reckless decision by the FDA to expand the availability of abortion drugs" and they called it unconscionable.

Erica, this doesn't necessarily change the picture for how people access abortion drugs or medication abortion, this had already had a generic version as you noted. But this action from the FDA, kind of an awkward move as it also says it's investigating the safety of this medication --

HILL: Yes, absolutely.

TIRELL: -- which by the way, decades of research have shown is safe.

HILL: I was going to say yes. That -- that we do know. Meg, really appreciate the update and the new reporting. Thank you.

Just ahead here, when the tension goes way too far, librarians across the country under fire, some of them receiving death threats. A new film now is spotlighting their fight and the consequences of keeping books on the shelves.

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[17:32:10]

HILL: In our National Lead, new warnings about the normalization of book bans in the United States. PEN America, a nonprofit group defending free speech, reporting in its annual survey that's just out, "book censorship in the United States is rampant and common. Never before in the life of any living American have so many books been systematically removed from school libraries across the country."

Going on to note that during the last school year, PEN America actually recorded more than 6,800 instances of book bans across 23 states and 87 public school districts. The rise in book bans and the political muscle and money behind them is the subject of the new documentary, "The Librarians." It's now screening in select theaters after debuting at Sundance. Here's a clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That was my office. These are two books that I was asked to be removed and I would not remove them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to pull books off the shelves. Stamp color purple.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yep. There's your nudity right there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get rid of them. Get rid of them. This book was banned.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Peabody award-winning filmmaker, Kim Snyder, is the director and producer of "The Librarians" and joins us now in the studio. Thank you for coming in today. So the level I was really struck by, we have done some reporting on it here at CNN, but the level of vitriol that we see in this film, the threats of violence against these librarians, it is -- it's jarring. Some of them receiving death threats and yet also wanting to tell their story with you. Why was it so important to you to tell the story?

KIM SNYDER, DIRECTOR/PRODUCER, "THE LIBRARIANS": It was important for us to really focus on "The Librarians," the siege on "The Librarians" themselves. We've been hearing, you know, a good amount of coverage about book banning, but to really focus on this very organized attack on these, you know, heroes, really, who are just trained and standing up for First Amendment rights was really shocking three and a half years ago to start to understand and work collaboratively with -- with them to -- to give them a voice.

HILL: It's interesting too, I mean, you see those pictures and -- and I, in watching the film, I see a library and the library to me was always a place of discovery and learning and for so many people, especially children, it can really be a safe place and we kept hearing that over and over again from "The Librarians." They are fighting to uphold that tradition at this point. Who is winning the fight though at this moment?

SNYDER: Well, it's interesting because you hear people talking so much about there not being a middle, but we've been across the country with this film and it's fascinating how much it is -- it is striking a nerve. I think that they stand up for not only our First Amendment rights, but for kids and as one of them so aptly put, there's no place for politics in the school libraries.

They know that sometimes these books save lives, especially marginalized kids whose -- whose stories are being erased, black history, anything with -- with queer characters in them. So it's just -- it's -- it's really heartening to -- to see them fighting that way.

[17:35:15] HILL: As you were making this film and even in your discussion since, as you noted, in traveling the country and doing screenings, this is overall, right, it's the story of this fight, but it's also -- it's about censorship. It's about people being uncomfortable with information, but not being comfortable with their option to not read it themselves, to turn off the television. They are so bothered by it that they want to make sure that people don't have access to it. In your mind, based on the people you spoke to, where does that fear come from?

SNYDER: You know, censorship is such a, I think, fundamentally un- American thing. I -- I think some of it is -- is racism and fear of other. But we always say that these words that are being thrown around, like indoctrination, it's really about representation. If you don't want, there's always been parental rights.

Every librarian I spoke to would say there's a process, there was a protocol. But back when we started chronicling this three and a half years ago, after this Crouse list, there was a complete unprecedented rise in the scale and a brazen breaking of every kind of protocol that we knew around this process.

So, yes, it's been unprecedented and I hope people take cues from -- from these people who are just so courageous and they're flanked by all these other people in the film that are standing up and saying no to censorship when they see it.

HILL: You've had, as you told me, a really -- a really great reaction to the film across the country, especially in this question of is there a million? You also have some big names who've aligned themselves with your film. Sarah Jessica Parker is one of the executive producers. Why did people want to get on board? Was it similar reasons for everyone or -- or were there, you know, slightly different nuanced reasoning that people wanted to be involved with the film?

SNYDER: Well, we were thrilled when Sarah Jessica came on fairly early, but that it was very organic. She's always stood up for libraries, librarians, and the right to read. So that was very organic. In terms of it, there was a real trust building that had to happen in the beginning. As you see, if you see the film, some need to remain anonymous. That's shocking in and of itself that we have librarians who fear to be -- to be known and seen. And the -- the question, sorry.

HILL: Oh, just in terms of what -- what brought people in and the reaction. I mean, you talked about this a little bit. It's -- it's a fight for them, right? And to fight for who they are and what they believe and what they represent as librarians. Real quickly, I don't have a lot of time, but you mentioned you just came back from a screening in London. Was there a different reaction in the U.K. to what you've seen in the U.S.?

SNYDER: Well, that's the thing. We just were in London and have rolled it out across Europe. And that message is not being lost. The day after our Librarian of Congress was fired, we received an e-mail from the German National Library saying there are hundreds of German librarians that are standing in solidarity. Please come to Berlin with this film. So it's so much bigger than the books. It's so much bigger. It's kind of been a Trojan horse kind of an issue.

But in reality, we -- we know that -- they said to me four years ago that they were the canaries in the coal mine, these librarians. And now we're seeing an attack on freedom of expression in our museums and our institutions, you know, in higher education. And they're -- they're standing up and they won't waver. So we're growing a movement.

HILL: It's great to have you here. Thanks for taking the time to come in and best of luck as you continue on with the film. Thanks so much.

SNYDER: Thank you.

HILL: "The Librarians" does begin limited screenings in the U.S. this month, so before -- be sure to check it out.

Just ahead here, the 66 hand-sewn flags that reportedly had to be replaced last month in the U.K. when President Trump came to town.

[17:39:59]

Plus, how the current government shutdown could be having a major impact on Election Day for millions of Americans in a mere 33 days.

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HILL: A colorful story in our Politics Lead. The U.K. we're learning have to replace 66 hand-sewn American flags for President Trump's visit last month because they were the wrong shade of red. The U.K. government's official flag supplier telling "The Telegraph," the Americans decided that the red we use, which is called R01, wasn't right for them and that they wanted a cherry red instead, so we had to buy all new flags for this visit. He says U.K. taxpayers actually footed that bill, estimated to be more than $67,000.

My panel is here. So, listen, to be entirely fair here, the flag supplier had also explained sometimes being in storage, being flown in the sun, that can cause the colors to change on the flags. The authorities of Azerbaijan apparently had a similar issue during a visit last year. Xochitl, that is a hefty cost for U.K. taxpayers. What do you think of it?

XOCHITL HINOJOSA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That is a hefty cost for taxpayers. And I did a little bit of research about this and talked to some former government officials. And what they said is that the American flag uses a very specific red that is only made in the United States. And oftentimes when there are overseas trips, and especially with our allies, what happens is that advanced staffers go and they travel with the American flag that is made in the United States with our color red.

In some instances, our allies and whoever the President is visiting at the time, they can't get the kind of red that matches our red, and that is OK. We are usually being welcomed. There's -- our ally is spending a lot of money on the President visiting, and -- and that doesn't bother a president normally, and so they normally let it go.

[17:45:02]

What is interesting here is the U.K. is one of our allies, and that the Trump administration would be asking for them to replace the flags, which is just a waste of money. And so this is something that we normally don't do with our allies. They're already footing the bill for a visit.

They're already spending a lot of time and resources on such a visit. And there are other things that you want to talk about with our allies, not this.

HILL: Shifting gears here, if we could. Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker, not shy when it comes to pushing back against President Trump, specifically, as we know lately, his call for troops to crack down on crime in Chicago. I was struck by some recent comments, though, this week. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. J.B. PRITZKER (D-IL): It appears that Donald Trump, not only has dementia set in, but he's copying tactics of Vladimir Putin, sending troops into cities, thinking that that's some sort of proving ground for war. There is something genuinely wrong with this man, and the 25th Amendment ought to be invoked.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: So I just want to note what else stood out to us here, is that there's actually been a noted uptick in searches on CNN's digital platforms for the 25th Amendment. So just to remind people, Section 4 of the 25th Amendment, that declares that if the Vice President and a majority of the cabinet believe that the President is no longer able to perform their duties, they could then submit that belief, of course, to Congress, have the Vice President replace the President, the President could oppose the declaration, Congress can vote. Just a reminder, that way you don't have to do the search, friends. T.W., when you hear that language from Governor Pritzker, what are your thoughts?

T.W. ARRIGHI, VICE PRESIDENT, PUSH DIGITAL GROUP: A massive, massive eye roll emoji. Where the heck was this guy for four years of Joe Biden when we have documented evidence of mental decline? Look, Joe Biden quite literally needed hints at naming who the Democratic leaders, who he was standing in front of, and remember their name. J.B. Pritzker being one of them. Look, J.B. Pritzker wants to move the topic away from crime in his city.

When he was directly confronted with the statistics about the drop in violent crime in Washington, D.C. under National Guard, you know, in presence, he said that, well, crime is just a fact of life in big cities. That's not a good enough answer, and he needs to answer for the 342 murders to date that he has in Chicago. Look, he wants to talk about the 25th Amendment. We just had four years of Joe Biden. That's falling on a lot of deaf ears right now and looks foolish. HILL: So do you think if there were strong signs of mental decline from President Trump, given the criticism that has been there for some time from the Republican Party when it comes to Joe Biden, do you think this current administration, the Vice President, members of the Cabinet, would actually invoke the 25th Amendment?

HINOJOSA: Absolutely not. Their loyalty is to Donald Trump. Their loyalty is not to the American people. And you have J.D. Vance, who wants to run for president, and he needs MAGA's support in order to get the nomination. And so I don't see this happening anytime soon. And you're right, Republicans were calling for -- to invoke the 25th Amendment during -- during Biden's presidency. The reality is, though, is that Donald Trump is the oldest elected president in history.

And so people should be asking questions about his health. He should be getting regular checkups. He should be sharing health information with the American people. And I think that -- and I don't think that he is. And I'm not sure he would be transparent about his health. But there should be questions and people should be worried about his health.

What I will say, though, is that on violent crime and his actions recently, whether it is posting unhinged social media posts or whether it is sending our military against Americans on U.S. soil, I think all of these things are worrisome. Do I think they're going to invoke the 25th Amendment? I do think we should be asking questions about his health.

HILL: I also want to take a look at Virginia. So early voting is actually underway in the state of Virginia for the gubernatorial election there. Virginia, of course, is home to more than 300,000 federal workers. So you've got this contest here between the Republican lieutenant governor, Winsome Earle-Sears, and the former Democratic Congresswoman, Abigail Spanberger.

There are some questions about whether or not this could be a referendum on the shutdown itself. T.W., what do you think? How much do you think that will come into play?

ARRIGHI: It could come into play a lot. Look, Lieutenant Governor Winsome Sears has an uphill battle in front of her. And yes, there's a lot of federal workers and military members in Virginia. This was going to be a very tough race one way or the other. This absolutely adds a tough component for the lieutenant governor. But let's see if her message on more macro issues and the direction of the country can win out the day.

HILL: To T.W.'s point, is this an opportunity then, Xochitl, for Abigail Spanberger?

HINOJOSA: Well, I think that with not only the government shutdown, but with layoffs, with DOGE layoffs, with what Trump is threatening in terms of mass layoffs in the federal government, and with the way that Donald Trump has treated federal workers and our military, I do think that this is an opportunity for her. But I will say that this is also potentially eye-opening for Donald Trump. [17:50:08]

I could see him potentially coming to the table, knowing that you have Virginia and New Jersey critical races for Democrats and Republicans this year, if he knows that this could potentially play.

ARRIGHI: I'm not so sure you'll see that. But these are going to be tough races. It's always tough in an off year. But we have work to do in the federal government. I think that's where the President's focused.

HINOJOSA: One could hope that -- that -- one could hope that Donald Trump comes to the table.

HILL: T.W., Xochitl, good to see you both. Thank you.

Halloween is right around the corner. We can say that because now it's October. Turns out Americans could be spending a record amount on the holiday this year. One retailer telling CNN it's very clear the reason for that. What's getting the blame, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:55:15]

HILL: In our Money Lead, the countdown to Halloween. It's getting a little spooky for your wallet. Trump's tariffs are having what we're learning is a terrifying effect on some of these Halloween prices. According to the National Retail Federation, spending this year on Halloween costumes, decorations, candy and greeting cards could top a record $13 billion. CNN's Natasha Chen spoke with retailers who say customers should be prepared. Higher prices and less variety are on the menu.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We do have a kid one right up here.

NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For Halloween, Reyna Hernandez's six-year-old, wants to dress as Carl from "The Walking Dead."

REYNA HERNANDEZ, SHOPPING FOR A HALLOWEEN COSTUME: It's just ridiculous. We cannot even afford this at all.

CHEN (voice-over): This hat would work as part of her son's costume, but it costs $30 alone.

HERNANDEZ: I'd rather just do it ahead of time, little by little, you know, paycheck from paycheck.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The show is starting.

CHEN (voice-over): The Halloween and Costume Association says roughly 90 percent of Halloween products contain at least one component made overseas, most often in China. Because of tariffs imposed on most Chinese imports, suppliers and retailers say this Halloween's products will cost a little more and you'll see less variety.

CHRIS ZEPHRO, PRESIDENT, TRICK OR TREAT STUDIOS: We're all kind of on edge, but we're trying to stay positive.

CHEN (voice-over): Chris Zephro's business, Trick or Treat Studios, designs and produces all things scary and fun.

ZEPHRO: Horror is not necessarily Halloween. It's really a lifestyle.

CHEN (voice-over): But the real-life horror flick for him has been the overnight jump in cost this year. In April, President Trump increased tariffs on most Chinese goods to a whopping 145 percent. That made a lot of people cancel production orders right then and there.

Then in May, when tariffs on Chinese goods fell to 30 percent, some production in China resumed. But the stoppage had already caused a delay or shortage of items for the season. All told, Zephro's tariff bill --

ZEPHRO: Upwards of almost $800,000.

CHEN (voice-over): -- meant he had to lay off 15 employees.

ZEPHRO: It was one of the worst days of my life.

CHEN: There's a trickle effect. Importers like Trick or Treat Studios, who design and supply costumes, props and masks, are paying an extra 30 percent for everything coming in from China, which they then have to share with their retail customers.

Like Phantom Halloween, who then sells the products to customers. And the owner here is also making a tough decision about how much of the extra cost to absorb and how much to pass on.

RYAN GOLDMAN, OWNER, PHANTOM HALLOWEEN: The majority of kids' costumes have probably gone up $3 to $4. The majority of adult costumes have probably gone up $5 to $8.

CHEN (voice-over): Ryan Goldman's family started Phantom Halloween stores in the 1980s.

GOLDMAN: The idea is to hold as many prices as we can.

CHEN (voice-over): Some items made in Mexico, Vietnam, India or the U.K. won't see a price hike. But anything involving plastics or textiles is predominantly made in China.

GOLDMAN: I'm not that political, so we just are dealing with the aftermath of it. The aftermath isn't pretty.

CHEN (voice-over): But Zephro is clear about who's responsible.

ZEPHRO: I would love to have a conversation, closed doors, with -- with Trump. Because if you really want manufacturing to come back here, you have to look at why manufacturing left and start there. CHEN (voice-over): Policies and regulations, he says, that have made manufacturing in the U.S. extremely difficult and inefficient. For now, both he and Goldman have stopped bringing in items made too expensive due to tariffs.

CHEN: If it's $150 more for you, how much more is that for the customer?

GOLDMAN: At least $300. And that's the reason why he didn't get reordered this year.

CHEN (voice-over): And there are certain products, like 1-6th scale action figures, that Zephro won't even produce.

ZEPHRO: No one's going to spend $400 for an action figure.

CHEN (voice-over): The only ones available in his warehouse came in before tariffs.

CHEN: So what you have here is it?

ZEPHRO: That's it until maybe the midterms.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHEN: A White House spokesperson told me, "real prosperity is good jobs and thriving communities for everyday Americans, not cheap Chinese imports." He also says President Trump pledged to use tariffs to level the playing field and address fentanyl smuggling.

Now, Erica, the most in demand costume this year, K-pop Demon Hunters characters. And because it's such a quick turnaround to produce those outfits, the phantom Halloween store owner tells me the cost of doing that quick turnaround plus flying it in and the tariffs, those costumes will cost parents about 70 or 80 bucks. Erica?

HILL: Wow, that is something. All right. I'm kind of glad my kids are told to trick or treat. Natasha, thank you.

[17:59:57]

Welcome to The Lead. I'm Erica Hill in for Jake Tapper. This hour, the government is shutdown still for a second day and we find ourselves at an impasse as both sides continue to dig in. The White House says shutdown related layoffs are likely to be in the thousands --