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The Lead with Jake Tapper

DOJ Indicts Trump Adversary N.Y. A.G. Letitia James; Hostages May Be Released Monday Or Tuesday; Israeli Government Voting On Ceasefire Proposal; Legal Battles Challenge Trump's National Guard Deployments; New York A.G. Letitia James Posts Video Responding To Indictment; U.S. Citizen Detained By Ice During Mobile Patrol Speaks To CNN. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired October 09, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: And even if it was, you know, she sort of tried to rectify the problem.

A similar thing with Jim Comey is if there's a mere dispute as to a statement or if a guy is unsure about something that's just not going to be enough to get to reasonable doubt, the person has to be intentionally committing the crime.

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: All right. Well, it sounds like our news day just took a turn. Thank you all very much for being here. And CNN's breaking news coverage is going to continue right now with "The Lead" with Jake Tapper.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. And we start with some shocking breaking news in our law and justice lead. Just moments ago two sources telling CNN that the Justice Department indicted yet another one of President Trump's perceived political opponent. This time it was New York Democratic Attorney General Letitia James.

She was charged in a federal court in a grand jury in Alexandria, Virginia today. You will remember James brought civil fraud charges alleging financial fraud against Trump and his adult sons in his real estate business in New York back in 2022. A judge found them liable and ordered a $355 million fine, which Trump appealed. And this obviously comes in the context of President Trump demanding that the Eastern District of Virginia, the U.S. attorney there, carry out orders to go after his political opponents, James Comey, who has been indicted. Letitia James, who as of today has been indicted.

Democratic Senator Adam Schiff is the third that he mentioned in that public Truth Social post that the Wall Street Journal reports was accidentally posted publicly was meant to be a private message to his attorney general, Pam Bondi.

With me here in New York, CNN's Kara Scannell. We're going to start with CNN's Kristen Holmes who's live at the White House.

Kristen, you broke the story. What can you tell us? KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So earlier today, Lindsey Halligan, the U.S. attorney who was handpicked by Donald Trump to lead the Eastern District of Virginia after Erik Siebert stepped down, that was a man who had been in place and felt hesitant to bring certain cases against Letitia James as well as James Comey. Lindsey Halligan presented the case against Letitia James to a grand jury and they did vote to indict. Now, we are still waiting to hear what those charges are. But as you noted, this is part of a pattern and part of the reason that President Trump put Halligan into that role.

He wanted a loyalist, and he wanted a loyalist who would follow through on some of these cases against his political opponents. Again, we spoke to a number of sources in and around conversations within that U.S. attorney's office in Virginia who said the case wasn't strong enough to bring before a grand jury. Obviously, Halligan felt differently and did so, which led to an indictment. So we're still waiting on a lot of those details to come in. But as you noted, this is yet another person on a long list of political enemies that President Trump has -- that has wanted -- he has wanted to bring to court.

TAPPER: Kara, what are you learning about the specific indictment? I assume it's in the Eastern District of Virginia as Kristen Holmes just said. What do we know she's been indicted for, that might not actually even matter to President Trump, but it matters to the grand jury, presumably? KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. And we're still working to confirm exactly what the charge is. What we do know is that office has been investigating Letitia James for potential mortgage fraud or, you know, fraud in the process of getting a loan. And they've been looking at a couple of different properties. One is the Norfolk, Virginia, property where she underwrote a loan to help her niece buy the property.

Her lawyers have acknowledged there was a mistake in the papers, but they also had submitted documents to the Justice Department to try to ward this off, pointing out other instances where Letitia James said this was not her primary residence, that can change the mortgage rate. Any false statement to a bank, though, can be charged. They have to prove that it's done knowingly. And so her lawyers --

TAPPER: So, so if it's a mistake, that's actually relevant criminally. It has to be -- if it is a mistake and the person says, look, it's obviously a mistake, here's evidence, it's a mistake, then you can't prove intent and that's important?

SCANNELL: That's what they're trying to get at here. We don't know the scope of --

TAPPER: Yes.

SCANNELL: -- what they have charged, but for one of these examples, they've acknowledged, Letitia James, seems like there was an error on a power of attorney. But they also presented documents that showed Letitia James stating twice, once in all caps saying, this is not my primary residence, and another time checking a box indicating it was not her primary residence. They would try to argue that that was no intent of wrongdoing if she was presenting throughout. And the -- and the bank itself did not feel it was defrauded because they had the correct information despite one false document. That's one area that they know -- we know they were looking at.

We also know they were looking at her home in Brooklyn, New York. Ed Martin, who is -- has bears four titles at the Justice Department, including the Weaponization Working Group director, was outside of her home there taking a look at it. They're looking there.

[17:05:00]

Again, these are, you know, issues within documents. That one has to do with the number of dwellings that are in this multifamily home.

Anything that's false in a statement to the bank is problematic and it's a serious crime. It can carry up to 30 years maximum in prison if convicted. But we are still working to understand exactly what specific document or what specific loan they have charged as being one that was fraudulent.

TAPPER: And just to be clear, because people -- people heard you just say the Weaponization Working Group at the Justice Department, and they might have misunderstood because it sounds as though he's in charge of weaponizing the Justice Department from that title. But actually, even regardless of what -- how one interprets what is happening to Letitia James today, he's there to go against the weaponization of the Justice Department, at least theoretically, right?

SCANNELL: Exactly. And this also points directly to this long standing feud between Donald Trump and Letitia James.

TAPPER: Yes.

SCANNELL: She brought that civil fraud suit against him where he was found liable. The -- the judgment in that was reversed, but he is still liable as committing fraud. And Trump has long said that she weaponized her powers --

TAPPER: Right.

SCANNELL: -- against him. And so when he took office, he pledged to look at her and others. And that is ultimately where we see this today with this indictment against her and the one against James Comey.

TAPPER: OK. Kara Scannell, thanks so much.

We're going to bring in our senior legal analyst, Elie Honig, who was a former Assistant U.S. Attorney in the Southern District of New York. Also with us, former Trump attorney Tim Parlatore.

Elie, what do we know about these charges and how they came about?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Jake, the key question, assuming this is in fact a mortgage fraud case, is whether Letitia James intentionally and specifically made a false representation. So as Kara said, it appears -- and by the way, we have a good amount of info on this because it came from an official referral from the Federal Housing Finance Agency. So based on that referral, we know that in 2023, when Letitia James was Attorney General of the State of New York, she purchased a home in Norfolk, Virginia. In at least one of those mortgage documents, apparently she certified that that home in Virginia would be her primary residence. People sometimes do that if they're trying to commit a fraud because you can get better tax rates or better interest rates.

However, as Kara said, Letitia James' attorney has already publicly said that there are many other spots in the mortgage file where Letitia James makes a point of saying that home in Virginia is not going to be my primary residence. So prosecutors, look, they got this case through a grand jury, it's a low standard of proof, it's probable cause, but it's not nothing. Now, they're going to have to prove their case to a jury eventually beyond a reasonable doubt. And if this is a mistake or something that was done inadvertently, that's not going to be enough to support a criminal charge against Letitia James.

TAPPER: Tim, how -- how strong of a case do you think the Justice Department has? And -- and separately, but relatedly, Lindsey Halligan, who is the acting U.S. attorney, the Eastern District of Virginia, she is bringing indictments that -- that -- it sounds as though people in the Eastern District of Virginia thought would be difficult to prove in a court of law. That is -- that is a higher standard than bringing an indictment. How big a task does she have ahead of her? TIM PARLATORE, FORMER TRUMP ATTORNEY: Well, look, mortgage fraud is something that's been used in many circumstances in other political cases. You know, you got to remember we sent Bernie Kerik to jail for four years because he made a mistake on his mortgage application. So there is certainly precedent for this. And it's particularly interesting when Letitia James brought an almost identical case against Donald Trump, you know, in the -- in New York in a civil context. And so I do think that when you certify that something is true and there's something in there that's false like that, I mean, you would expect that the Attorney General of the State of New York would be more careful in what she's putting on those applications.

And so, I'm sure that they have some kind of context to put those other documents into, you know, whether those were things that were, you know, put in after the fact, after it was discovered, you know, whatever it is, we'll find out, you know, soon enough.

You know, but Lindsey Halligan is somebody that I worked with before. I think she's a very smart lawyer. And, you know, she's bringing these cases, you know, presumably because there is good evidence for them. There is a grand jury that the process has been gone through, and a grand jury, not a prosecutor, decided whether there's probable cause to proceed.

TAPPER: Elie, we have been talking about the James Comey indictment. He pleaded not guilty. And we suspect that he's going to try to get the case dismissed, alleging that this is a political prosecution. And exhibit A, I would imagine, is that Truth Social post from September 30th where President Trump in a post to the attorney general, Pam Bondi, a post that the Wall Street Journal just reported was accidentally posted on social media. It was meant to be a private message calls for the prosecution of Letitia James, James Comey and Adam Schiff.

[17:10:03]

How damning is that in terms of the attempt to get these -- these indictments, these of kinds. James Comey and Adam Schiff. How damning is that in terms of the attempt to get these indictments, these cases dismissed because they will be called political prosecutions.

HONIG: Well, that social media post will be Exhibit A when Jim Comey moves to dismiss. And it will also be Exhibit A, when Letitia James moves to dismiss. There is this doctrine called selective or vindictive prosecution. And it means if you can show as a criminal defendant in federal court that you've been singled out for political reasons or other improper reasons, the judge can throw the case out before it gets to a jury.

Now, it's really, really hard to win those motions. Defendants bring them all the time, they almost never win. But that's because you don't have a public posting where the president of the United States says it explicitly, like right there. And I know that we -- we're hearing, look, Letitia James, there's no question, it's a fact. She politically targeted Donald Trump.

She used her power as attorney general to bring a ridiculous lawsuit against him, which has now largely been vacated by the court of appeals. That said, that does not excuse or justify bringing a retributive criminal prosecution.

TAPPER: Elie Honig, Tim Parlatore, thanks to both of you.

More breaking news. All eyes on Israel right now as that country votes, that's a leader's vote, on what could be the very next step in this very fragile cease fire plan with Hamas. A deal so monumental even Democrats are giving President Trump props for the cease fire hostage release deal that we're all hoping it goes through. We're live with what needs to happen next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:15:31]

TAPPER: We have some breaking news in our World Lead, Israel's full cabinet, 25 ministers are meeting right now before taking a final vote on the cease fire proposal. The ministers include the entire Israeli security cabinet, which already approved the plan. If this vote passes, a simple majority is needed. As expected, a cease fire will officially begin in Israel's war against Hamas in Gaza.

This would mark the official start of a larger peace deal rooted in President Trump's 20 point plan, first presented to Netanyahu last Monday in the White House. CNN's Diplomatic Editor Nic Robertson is in Egypt right now.

Nic, there's -- there's much to praise, but still a lot of work remains to be done.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, even down to the wire on just this current phase of the deal, the cease fire, hostage release, prisoner release. Today, Hamas have been in meetings with negotiators about the names of some of those prisoners to be released. We know they've also been talking about the details that they know where all the living hostages are, but not the remains of all the deceased. So even down to the wire on this very simple phase one first step and then you get into the sorts of things that will be on the mind of the cabinet right now voting on this phase one. They'll be looking at phase two and saying, OK, Mr. Prime Minister, where are your guarantees that Hamas is actually going to be disarmed when we go on a cease fire?

Who's going to do that? Is it us? Is it this international state stabilization force? When is the stabilization force going to be coming to play? When will it be ready?

Who will be there? How much involvement will we have? All those questions. And Hamas themselves today saying that they took the steps they took to save the killing, to save the displacement, to save the starvation, all of that. But of course, clear that Hamas wants to keep as many weapons as possible, wants to have a political future.

And we're not into any of those details yet. So when President Trump gets here Monday, signs a document here alongside President Sisi of Egypt, whomever else, maybe the details in there may give us insights. But frankly, at the moment, these -- these are the big open questions in the region that are causing the people I'm talking to say, OK, just how long is this phase one and cease fire really going to last? TAPPER: All right, Nic Robertson in Egypt, thank you so much.

Joining us now to discuss, the former U.S. ambassador to Israel during the Biden administration, Tom Nides.

Mr. Ambassador, first your reflections on this historic day. It seems like a very big achievement for President Trump. Just the first part of this 20 part plan alone, the cease fire hostage release deal seems -- seems really significant.

THOMAS NIDES, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO ISRAEL, BIDEN ADMINISTRATION: Absolutely, Jake. And listen, I -- you know, I give the President credit and Steve Witkoff and Kushner and the whole team, listen, just think about this. We are going to get these hostages home. That's first and foremost. The families can get reunited.

God knows the bodies of those who are fallen also in Gaza will be hopefully returned. We then can start surging humanitarian resources into Gaza, which is exceptionally important. And so this is phase one. As -- as Nic said on your -- on your shot just a minute ago, there's a long, long road, but we need to celebrate the fact that we're to get these hostages home. Humanitarian resources are going to be pushed into Gaza, which is desperately needed. So I'm -- I'm -- I'm fully supportive and certainly hope that we can get this done as quickly as possible.

TAPPER: So it does seem as though there is an only Nixon can go to China aspect of this. The idea that President Trump, because he is so popular in Israel, was able to push Netanyahu to do something that he didn't seem to want to do. Yair Rosenberg, who writes for the Atlantic, wrote, quote, "Trump did not intervene as the first cease fire helped broker in January fell apart. But in recent weeks, he seems to have latched onto the issue with renewed vigor, willing to insert himself into the negotiations, bully both Netanyahu and Hamas, and leverage his relationships with regional leaders to finally end the war," unquote. Do you agree that Trump bullied, as Yair Rosenberg writes, Netanyahu, and that -- that it worked?

NIDES: Well, listen, as someone who spent quite a bit of time with the prime minister, you know, he only reacts to aggressive behavior. As, by the way, as Joe Biden learned.

[17:20:08]

Listen, Joe Biden was exceptionally popular in Israel after the first Iran attack. And the support when he -- I remember when Joe Biden came to Israel and he looked at the camera, said, you don't have to be a Jew to be a Zionist. I mean, he was popular.

But it's clear that Donald Trump's negotiating style is not for everybody. But in this particular case, it is effective to try to get this war stopped. And I -- I, for one, you know, I don't spend a lot of time praising the administration, but I, for one, I feel that if we get these hostages home, he deserves all the credit he's getting.

TAPPER: Barak Ravid from Axios and CNN was on last week when we talked about this, you were on the show that day, too, and noted that President Trump is much more popular in Israel than Prime Minister Netanyahu. That had to have played a role here, too.

NIDES: Oh, absolutely. Listen, you know, Bibi understood that he didn't really have any choices here, right? The president has done what he's done vis-a-vis the Iran attack, the Hezbollah, the support, by the way, as Joe Biden did as well. And I think at this point he was out of options. So, do I think that the prime minister's intention was to agree to this deal at the timing that was agreed to?

Personally, I don't think so. But that said, I don't care. What I care about is hopefully by Monday or Tuesday, these 20 hostages will be out of Gaza and hopefully the humanitarian assistance will be surged into Gaza. That's what matters right now. We'll do a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking how we got there and how it happened for a long period of time.

But right now, let's celebrate, hopefully, that these families will be reunited.

TAPPER: Former U.S. ambassador to Israel, Tom Nides, thank you so much, sir. Appreciate it. And we should disclose that Mr. Nides is married to a CNN executive. That has nothing to do with why he's on the show.

As this deal plays out, the politics here at home for President Trump, are Democrats willing to give him the credit for pushing for peace? We're going to talk more about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:26:30]

TAPPER: Back with our world lead, top Democrats today clearly at least a little bit willing to give President Trump some credit for the promising first phase of the cease fire plan in Gaza.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): We are on the precipice of a monumental and historic achievement and President Trump deserves a measure of credit for it, so do others. And there'll be time to assess where that credit should go.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Do you think that Trump deserves credit for this?

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): Yes, if it works.

RAJU: There are people on the right calling for him to get the Nobel Peace Prize. What do you say to that?

DURBIN: Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Let's not get ahead of ourselves says Dick Durbin. Joining us now, editor in chief, The Atlantic, Jeffrey Goldberg.

The magazine has a special issue out now that revisits America's founding era on this 250th birthday of the United States. I'm going to get to that in one second. But you know so much about the Middle East. You've forgotten more about the Middle East than I'll ever know.

President Obama issued a statement on Twitter talking about the deal. He didn't mention Trump once in his post. It starts with, quote, "After two years of unimaginable loss and suffering for Israeli families and the people of Gaza, we should all be encouraged and relieved that an end to the conflict is within sight."

Now, I get that the cease fire part of this, which is only points one through five of a 20 point plan and 20s coexistence and like, you know, we're in early days, but still, this is pretty huge.

JEFFREY GOLDBERG, EDITOR IN CHIEF, THE ATLANTIC: Yes, it's a big deal. I mean, Dick Durbin's right, let's not get ahead of ourselves. Nothing's actually happened yet and it's the Middle East, so the only thing that -- that can go wrong is everything. But, yes, I mean, he did -- he did bring us to this point because he does have an acute understanding of the relationship between power and threats and diplomacy. And he basically told Netanyahu, as no other real friend anymore, right, --

TAPPER: Yes.

GOLDBERG: -- like you're going to do this. And he also told Hamas, and this is the key, he told Hamas and Qatar. Hamas' essentially its sponsor, said, look, if you guys don't do this, I'm just going to tell Netanyahu to eliminate all of you.

TAPPER: Right.

GOLDBERG: You know, so it's like -- this -- this is like -- this is diplomacy, but it's also Donald Trump's very, let's say New York understanding of the way you get things done.

TAPPER: Yes. Netanyahu's response today, this Twitter post, AI image of Donald Trump being awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. Interesting idea that it would be this giant medal and Netanyahu would get to put it on him.

GOLDBERG: Yes.

TAPPER: That's not an Oslo image that I can imagine -- GOLDBERG: No, that's more like Flavor Flav meets, the -- meets --

meets the Nobel Peace Prize, but whatever. I mean, it's -- everybody's getting way ahead of themselves on this.

First of all, look, if he gets the hostages out, if Donald Trump, then God bless him.

TAPPER: Yes.

GOLDBERG: Right? If he brings some level of quiet to the families of Gaza, God bless him. But peace, this is not --

TAPPER: Right.

GOLDBERG: -- this is not peace. This is --

TAPPER: Well, let's hope -- let's hope this is the first step that goes -- that leads to coexistence.

GOLDBERG: Coexist, really? I mean, you know, here you have a situation. This is why people are getting ahead of themselves. Hamas is doctrinally committed to the --

TAPPER: Elimination.

GOLDBERG: -- annihilation of --

TAPPER: Yes.

GOLDBERG: -- Israel. It doesn't recognize that it even exists. So it's not going to -- [17:30:00]

TAPPER: I know, you know, you want to talk about The Atlantic's new special issue.

GOLDBERG: I do.

TAPPER: Yes. "The Unfinished Revolution" it focuses -- there's a cover beautiful painting. It focus on, quote, measuring the success of the American experiment two and a half centuries later against the lofty dreams and designs of the founding generation.

It does feel particularly applicable to this era we're in, where it does seem as though norms and the ideals of those gentlemen and a couple ladies in that image, whether or not they're being fulfilled.

GOLDBERG: Yes, we are. I mean, one of the great achievements, for instance, of the founding father, George Washington, maybe his greatest achievement, was that he went home. They wanted him to be essentially a king. It's very interesting. America overthrew a tyrant, a monarch. And there was so much love and respect for George Washington that people were like, why don't you just stay president forever? And Washington was like, that's not the point of what we just did.

And we've had presidents for two and a half centuries who've understood that principle. Go home.

TAPPER: YEs.

GOLDBERG: Let somebody else do it. We now have a president, the one with the big Nobel Prize around his neck, in theory, who has shown no interest in modeling himself after George Washington in that respect. So we are in a challenging moment in terms of our understanding of what the founders wanted. And we believe at The Atlantic that if you study what the founders said also, by the way, Founders, very flawed people, obviously, in lots of different ways. Slavery, most notably.

TAPPER: And you have an acknowledgment of one of George Washington's slaves --

GOLDBERG: Yes. Yes.

TAPPER: -- standing behind him.

GOLDBERG: Yes, very much. But here's the thing about the founders. They were flawed men. Their ideas were very good ideas. The ideas that are encapsulated in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution are great ideas. And that's what we're asking people to live up to.

TAPPER: All right, happy 250th United States. Go check out the issue right now. The Atlantic magazine, one of the finest magazines known to man. Thank you so much.

GOLDBERG: Thank you. TAPPER: Good to see you, Jeffrey. Next, the test of President Trump's power. Can he put National Guard troops in two major U.S. cities even though the mayors and the governors don't want them there? The two court cases playing out to answer that question right now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:36:23]

TAPPER: In our National Lead, today, two major legal battles over President Trump's National Guard deployments to Chicago, Illinois and Portland, Oregon. City and state leaders are arguing that President Trump is exceeding his authority. They do not want the troops in those cities. The Trump administration says the troops are there because they're needed to fight against, quote, ongoing and sustained violence, unquote, aimed at federal ICE officials.

CNN's Shimon Procupez is in Portland. CNN's Omar Jimenez is near an ICE detention facility outside Chicago. Shimon, do you first, did the appeals court appear skeptical at all over the president's effort to send in the National Guard to Portland?

SHIMON PROCUPEZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Now, in listening to those arguments and the questions by at least two of the two judges on the three judge panel for the Ninth Circuit, they seemed more inclined to allow the president to bring National Guard troops. You know, this is really a question about the power of President Donald Trump.

And based on the questioning, I mean, these judges were really focused on what has happened here in the past. You know, much is being said about how things seem to have come down here. Things have quieted down, including from the lower court judge who used that as part of her arguments, as part of her decision to put this temporary restraining order in place. Well, these judges were not really buying that.

I mean, two of the judges were bringing up issues that were going on here back in July, in June and August and September, when some of the protests were more heated and the government here, the Department of Justice was arguing that they have already brought more resources here, more federal officers, but that's not enough. Those federal officers are being pulled from different duties. Their jobs are being strained and they need help. And that is one of the reasons why they need National Guard here.

And right now, based on these arguments that we heard, it seems like they're going to allow this to happen, Jake.

TAPPER: Meanwhile, National Guard troops from Texas are already in Chicago. Omar Jimenez, how did today's hearing over Illinois lawsuit against President Trump for deploying these troops, how did that go?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Well, after a break, they are just getting back into session right now. And what we're watching closely for is really what the judge will actually rule on, whether the presence of National Guard troops here, particularly from Texas, is legal.

Now, throughout the day, I should say Judge Perry seemed skeptical, at least on a few fronts. But one of the things that was really interesting was that for all of the rhetoric about Guard troops coming here and the reasons for them being here, the judge really tried to dial in on what the legal arguments were here from the federal Trump administration.

For example, she asked whether the National Guard troops could be seen not just at federal properties, but out in neighborhoods or around schools. And the DOJ responded saying, well, this would specifically be if there were federal agents or properties out in those areas. She also asked, would the National Guard be part of solving crime in the city, since the implication of the Guard being here is that it would help drive down violent crime.

And they said, well, to an extent, but again, in a federal protective capacity. And it led to the judge even concluding at one point saying, if the administration's position was that the Guard was needed here to help solve problems on federal property, we would be in a very different place. But that is not where we are.

And so that is why we are watching very closely. Again, as court just got back into session a few minutes ago, where we are here in Broadview, just outside Chicago, outside this ICE detention facility.

[17:40:00]

There have been a few protesters that have come throughout the day. You might be able to see that big sign that says no troops in our streets. The numbers have been small, but we have observed members of the National Guard sort of patrolling the area outside the federal detention facility, but nothing really beyond that. And things have remained relatively calm here. But we will see what the judge rules potentially today or if we'll get something little bit later, Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Shimon Prokupecz in Portland, Oregon. Omar Jimenez just outside Chicago. Thanks to both of you. We're getting new reaction just in from New York Attorney General Letitia James, the Democrat who was indicted today by President Trump's Justice Department. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:45:02]

TAPPER: Just in a video statement from New York Attorney General Letitia James, a Democrat and perceived political opponent of President Trump's who was just indicted by the U.S. Justice Department.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LETITIA JAMES, NEW YORK ATTORNEY GENERAL: This is nothing more than a continuation of the president's desperate weaponization of our justice system. He is forcing federal law enforcement agencies to do his bidding. All because I did my job as the New York State Attorney General.

These charges are baseless, and the president's own public statements make clear that his only goal is political retribution at any cost.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Let's bring in our political panel, Chris Gallant, who is running for Congress in New York as a Democrat. New York, wonderful. And Maura Gillespie, former press adviser to Republican House Speaker John Boehner.

Chris, first to you. Your reaction to this indictment of yet another Trump political foe.

CHRIS GALLANT (D) NEW YORK CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: I think that this is just a distraction. That's always kind of what it's been. We're just distracting from what the real issues are. I feel like Washington is broken right now. There's, like, a lot of issues that we need to focus on. It comes down to working families and making sure that we can help working families here. This is just another distraction over and over again.

TAPPER: Maura, does it -- does seem like this is the second political adversary that the president mentioned in that Truth Social message that the Wall Street Journal reported was accidentally posted publicly. It was supposed to be a private message to Attorney General Bondi. Comey was indicted. Now, Letitia James, what do you think?

MAURA GILLESPIE, FORMER PRESS ADVISER TO REPUBLICAN HOUSE SPEAKER JOHN BOEHNER: I think Trump getting them indicted in and of itself is the win for him. Whether he loses these cases or not, I don't think he really cares. I think dragging people through the mud who he promised to hold accountable is a win for him. I'm not saying that's a good thing. I'm saying that's probably what he's viewing as a victory for himself.

TAPPER: Let's turn to the government shutdown. Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene, Republican of Georgia was on CNN this morning, was very clear on who she thinks is to blame for this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): I see the shutdown completely different from maybe my party leadership. And I'm not putting the blame on the president. I'm actually putting the blame on the Speaker and Leader Thune and the Senate. This should not be happening. And I don't think, look, as a member of Congress, we already have a low enough job approval rating. This shutdown is just going to drive everybody's approval rating that much lower.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: I'm actually pretty surprised to hear her blame Speaker Johnson and Leader Thune. Most Republicans, almost every other Republican I've heard from are blaming the Democrats. GILLESPIE: What's interesting is that she's taking the opportunity to

blame them, but making a point not to blame the President. I think it's really a clear delineation there. But she's not wrong in the sense that this is a problem that is going to see itself play out in the next few weeks. Because the health care conversation, yes, Republicans are going to say that they have this bill. They want to get it done.

It reminds me of 2013. Barack Obama refused to talk to Republicans and my former boss until the shutdown was over to negotiate anything. He refused to negotiate anything until the shutdown threat was off the table. And so I understand that the Democrats feel as though if they do go to the table after ends the shutdown, what happens? Those health care subsidies, the leveraging chip I think that they have right now, they worry that it won't get resolved.

And Marjorie Greene is pointing out to the fact that her constituents are very concerned about the cost of living, including health care costs that isn't being addressed currently. But to say that she doesn't blame the president for any of this, I mean the cost of living hasn't gone down as promised. So I don't know how she can avoid that entirely.

TAPPER: Chris, this is something you can relate to. You're a former Blackhawk helicopter pilot. You're a volunteer firefighter, air traffic controller also. Is that something that you have done or do you do that now?

GALLANT: So I'm still currently a Black Hawk pilot in the Army National Guard. So I still fly currently. I was --

TAPPER: Your colleagues not getting paid, right?

GALLANT: I was a former FAA air traffic controller. They are not getting paid. And it really just adds to the continued stress that the FAA really has or that air traffic controllers have. They're working 10 hour days, six days a week. That last day when they're home for just a couple hours, you know, just for 24 hours there, they just want to sit down and just not think.

To add the stress of working paycheck to paycheck is just not fair to them. It's not fair to the military members either that are going to, you know, possibly have their pay not come in on the 15th.

TAPPER: Yes.

GALLANT: It's just -- it's an all around thing. Nobody wins during a government shutdown. And the biggest problem here is really when it comes down to health care, our health care really for working families is a priority. And it's super important to make sure that we get these things addressed and fixed. And in order to do that, you have to bring Congress people back to work and figure it out.

TAPPER: So you're running for Congress. If you were in Congress right now, you would not have to be in Washington because Speaker Johnson has adjourned. And he appeared -- Speaker Johnson appeared on C-SPAN this morning to take questions from callers, and a military mom called in. Take a listen.

[17:50:06]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And as a Republican, I am very disappointed in my party and I'm very disappointed in you because you do have the power to call the House back. My kids could die. We don't have the credit because of the medical bills that I have to pay regularly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: She's talking about medical bills that she's not going to be able to afford because they're not being paid.

GILLESPIE: I think this highlights that in a shutdown. I've been through three in my time in Congress. The American people are the ones who lose. There's no winner in a government shutdown. There really isn't. And so what needs to happen is actual conversations, members being there physically showing the American people that they're doing the work, that they're trying to resolve something to open the government and to continue conversations, not just to have a one all stop, but just to continue these conversations too.

TAPPER: Chris, last word.

GALLANT: You know, regardless of any kind of shutdown, no military member should ever have to worry about their pay period. They're already paid nothing.

TAPPER: Correct.

GALLANT: And for a military member to have to work paycheck to paycheck is just completely unacceptable.

TAPPER: Can you imagine being like a special operator in Somalia right now or something and you're not getting paid and your wife and your kid can't afford groceries for the kids. Unbelievable. Chris and Maura, thanks to both you. Appreciate it.

Coming up, U.S. citizens detained by ICE agents in California. One man said he had his passport in his hand when he was being arrested. What's going on here? That story's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:55:37]

TAPPER: In our National Lead, a series of incidents in the Los Angeles area where U.S. citizens say they were detained by ICE agents because of their race. That's what they're saying. This comes one month after the U.S. Supreme Court backed President Trump's push to allow mobile immigration enforcement patrols in Southern California, or what critics are calling roving patrols. CNN's Veronica Miracle spoke with one man detained who said he had his U.S. passport in hand.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VERONICA MIRACLE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So where exactly were you arrested?

JAVIER RAMIREZ, U.S. CITIZEN ARRESTED THEN RELEASED BY ICE: One of them pretty much points me out, like, hey, get him. He's Mexican. So that's when they threw me down to the ground on this side.

MIRACLE (voice-over): Javier Ramirez says he was carrying his U.S. passport the moment federal agents entered his family tow yard in a suburb of Los Angeles. Even then, Ramirez says agents violently arrested him.

RAMIREZ: If it wasn't for the cameras, something else would have happened, pretty much.

MIRACLE: What did they say that you did?

RAMIREZ: They said I bit and spit a federal agent, and that's totally false because you can see clearly in the cameras that I'm not doing anything.

MIRACLE: Ramirez is a U.S. citizen born in San Bernardino, California, and he was the only person from the tow yard taken into custody by Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's an American citizen, bro. Come on.

MIRACLE: So they accuse you of doing something you didn't do. You're a U.S. citizen. How does it feel to have to go through this whole process?

RAMIREZ: It's scary. It's scary because you don't even know what's going on.

MIRACLE (voice-over): Ramirez spent four days behind bars accused of assaulting, resisting, or impeding an officer. He was released and the charge was dropped.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The whole experience in general, was very traumatic.

MIRACLE (voice-over): Ramirez's attorneys say he's one of five U.S. citizens in Los Angeles who filed tort claims against the federal government. All of them claim in separate incidents, they were racially profiled by ICE agents.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Show your face.

MIRACLE: Across California and the country, some U.S. citizens say they're living in fear, scared of being targeted by ICE because of the color of their skin. One top border official, Gregory Bovino, openly spoke about these tactics to a radio reporter in Chicago, saying, intelligence informs where they look for undocumented individuals and went on to say -- GREGORY BOVINO, CHIEF PATROL AGENT, EL CENTRO SECTOR: then obviously, the particular characteristics of an individual, how they look. How do they look compared to, say, you. What's your name again?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chip.

BOVINO: Chip. You or other folks, how do they appear in relation to what you or other people look like?

MIRACLE (voice-over): That's according to an opinion by conservative Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh. ICE agents can stop people at least partially based on their apparent race or whether they can speak English, as it contributes to reasonable suspicion when considered with other important factors. That's according to an emergency ruling by the Supreme Court.

Governor JB Pritzker says these types of detentions are happening in Illinois.

GOV. JB PRITZKER (D) ILLINOIS: Bovino even admitted on the record that they are making arrests based on how you look. That's the baseline. They're not targeting violent criminals or gang members. They're arresting tamale vendors.

MIRACLE (voice-over): In a new interview with CNN, Bovino denies the use of racial profiling and says it's a combination of factors that can lead to an arrest.

BOVINO: Perhaps you look scared. Perhaps your demeanor changes. Perhaps you're gripping the steering wheel so tightly that I can see the whites of your knuckles. There's a myriad of factors.

MIRACLE (voice-over): In Los Angeles, where immigration officials have been targeting scores of businesses since June, many U.S. citizens who aren't white tell me they're terrified. Like activist Francisco Moreno.

FRANCISCO MORENO, ACTIVIST: I carry my passport card. I am U.S. citizen. I am Mexican citizen. But now I don't feel, you know, comfortable without this on my wallet. We don't feel safe. America at this point is not the dream for the immigrants.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MIRACLE: And Jake, we reached out to the DHS about Javier Ramirez, they say he was detained for interference but release once they determined that he was a U.S. citizen with no outstanding warrants. Well, Ramirez tells us that he still hasn't gotten his passport back from ICE. He now carries around two copies of his birth certificate in case he is questioned again. Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Veronica. Miracle. Thank you so much for that.

[18:00:00]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News. TAPPER: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. We are following

breaking news on multiple fronts today. New York Attorney General Letitia James --