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The Lead with Jake Tapper
White House Budget Chief Says, Federal Worker Layoffs Have Begun; Sources Say, A.G. Bondi Caught Off Guard With Letitia James Indictment; Trump Takes Questions In The Oval Office; Disgraced Oregon Doctor Indicted On 11 Felony Sexual Assault Charges; Candidates Clash In Only Debate Of Virginia Governor's Race. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired October 10, 2025 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.
This hour, the Grim Reaper has arrived. Today, on the tenth day of the federal government shutdown, the Trump administration has started firing federal workers as threatened.
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We're learning more about what agencies and which workers are affected.
Plus, 19 people missing and feared dead after a massive blast at an explosives plant in Tennessee. We're going to have a live report from the scene of that devastating accident.
Also, an update to a CNN investigation that we first brought to you on The Lead more than a year ago, dozens of women claiming that a doctor who cared for generations of families in Oregon abused them. Today, that doctor is facing charges for the first time.
And we're going to be joined by Actress and Comedian Maya Rudolph, this as former Vice President Kamala Harris just weighed in on her in her book on Rudolph's impersonation of her on SNL during the presidential race.
The Lead tonight, the tenth day of the government shutdown brings the federal worker firings at the White House has been threatening. Russ Vought, the director of the Office of Management and Budget, made the announcement in a social media post reading, the RIFs have begun, RIF, R-I-F, that stands for reduction in force or firings.
CNN has confirmed that a number of agencies whose personnel will be impacted, but details of how many employees, when, which ones that remains hazy. This, of course, all comes as bipartisan negotiations remain non-existent on Capitol Hill until next week, and hope for members of the military not missing a paycheck next week rests on the commander-in-chief.
CNN's Chief White House Correspondent Kaitlan Collins is standing by for us. Kaitlan? KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, Jake, what they are doing now is making good on this threat to lay off federal workers as this government shutdown has dragged on. And I think one thing to note here, the context of this, is the White House had been hoping over a week ago, actually exactly today, that they'd start to see other Senate Democrats start to fold, start to vote for that bill to reopen the government. They thought the numbers would continue to basically tick down until they had enough to do so. That hasn't happened, Jake, and Democrats have remained united in their opposition to this until they get a deal on those healthcare subsidies, which is chief among their demands.
And I think the White House moving forward with this threat shows how they are trying to increase the pressure on Democrats in a way that really has not shaken their unity on this over the last several days. But, of course, there are real consequences to this. Federal workers are being laid off. The one thing we don't know, Jake, is really how many and how big the scope of what the White House is going after here is. All that we've heard from the White House is that it is substantial and they've referred other questions about this to Russ Vought, the president's budget director, and so that is something to watch going forward here.
In terms of just how many people actually get these notices and just how large this is, given we've seen many Democrats, and some Republicans like Susan Collins criticize this. And one good point that my colleague, Jeff Zeleny, made, Jake, was a lot of those furloughed workers aren't even allowed to access their email accounts in this moment. So, they may not actually know yet if they are part of the people who are getting these notices.
TAPPER: Kaitlan, we've also learned more. About the Justice Department's role when it comes to the indictment of the New York attorney general, Letitia James, Thursday night. Tell us more about that.
COLLINS: Well, they didn't know about it, Jake. I mean, they were caught off guard when this happened. Obviously, there had been a lot of talk about them going after her. We knew there had been opposition inside the Eastern District of Virginia's Prosecutor's Office about actually indicting her because they thought the case was weak. That was the sentiment that was shared, we are told by the attorney general, Pam Bondi. And we're told though by our sources, my colleague, Kristen Holmes and I and our colleagues here at CNN, that they were actually caught off guard Thursday when that indictment came down for Tish James brought by Lindsey Halligan, someone who used to work inside the West Wing and was on President Trump's defense team before he won reelection and they were caught off guard by it.
And there's a real disconnect between main justice and what is happening with some of the president's handpicked U.S. attorneys. And there's really a bit of a division that we are seeing play out among some of the president's most loyal aides, from Pam Bondi, Todd Blanche, the deputy attorney general, and what we're seeing with Lindsey Halligan over in the Eastern District of Virginia, Ed Martin, Bill Pulte, these other officials who have been trying to make the case for these indictments. And the question is whether or not that division continues to deepen as the president has made very clear that he has other targets on his list.
TAPPER: All right. Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much. And later, Kaitlan's going to talk to New York's Democratic socialist candidate, a Democratic nominee of the mayoral race there, Mamdani, about the indictment on The Source with Kaitlan Collins. That's tonight at 9:00 Eastern on CNN.
Joining us now, Texas Republican Congressman Brandon Gill. Congressman, let's start with the indictment of New York Attorney General Letitia James. You said that she should be held to the same standards that she held President Trump. And back in 2018 when she was elected, here's what she said during her victory speech.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LETITIA JAMES, NEW YORK ATTORNEY GENERAL: We must do our job to ensure that the man currently occupying the Oval Office is held accountable to any and everything he has done.
I will be shining a bright light into every dark corner of his real estate dealings and every dealing, demanding truthfulness at every turn. And I will hold him accountable using the unbending power of the law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: So conservative commentator Eric Erickson writes in his Substack today, I said then that the prosecutions of Trump were persecutions, and this, meaning the indictment of Letitia James, this is the same. Two wrongs do not make a right. Do you have any issue if you think what Letitia James did to Trump is wrong, do you have any issue about what the Justice Department under Trump is doing to Letitia James?
REP. BRANDON GILL (R-TX): Well, one thing that I'll say is I agree with Letitia James whenever she stated that no one is above the law. And what happened here is a grand jury determined that there is sufficient evidence to bring to indictment allegations of mortgage fraud against her. She's going to have her day in court. It's going to be about two weeks from today, and we'll see what the court decides.
But it looks like there is sufficient evidence here to reasonably say that she did indeed commit mortgage fraud, and if she did, she needs to be held to the same standards as anybody else would. I mean, this is somebody who tweeted whenever she was going after President Trump weaponizing the New York Justice Department against the president, that when powerful people cheat to get better loans, it comes at the expense of hardworking people. She needs to be held to that standard as well.
TAPPER: So you don't have a problem with the prosecution of Donald Trump then, because if it's all the same principle, it's all the same principle, right?
GILL: No. Listen, what she did against President Trump is entirely different. This is somebody who ran on going after President Trump with every single thing she possibly could, saying that she was going to get his name in the news. She was going to go after him. She was going to do her best to influence the results of the 2024 election by weaponizing the Justice Department. What we're finding out is now she is guilty of similar charges that she was trying to politicize against President Trump, and I think she needs to be held to the same standard.
TAPPER: All right. Republican Congressman Brandon Gill of Texas, sorry, so short, but President Trump speaking right now, so we're going to play what he's saying.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: -- I can tell you, Howard and I and Todd, we're all -- we're all -- Scott, we were all speaking about it before and it was -- we said, where did that come from? It was just -- that was out of the blue, right, out of the blue, they came up with this whole import/export concept. And nobody knew anything about it.
REPORTER: If they roll back their export controls, the new announcement, would you roll back?
TRUMP: Yes. Look, we're going to have to see what happens. That's why I made it November 1st. We'll see what happens here.
REPORTER: Mr. President, last time --
TRUMP: Go ahead, please.
REPORTER: What else besides software could be on the table in terms of export controls?
TRUMP: Oh, a lot more, a lot more. I mean, you have a lot more. We have airplanes, we have airplane parts. You remember that from last time. And we were just surprised at China. I have a very good relationship with President Xi, and they did that. This is not something that I, you know, instigated. This was just a response to something that they did. And they didn't really aim it at us. They aimed it at the whole world. The whole world is subject to it. So, I thought it was very bad.
But we have many things, including a big thing is airplane. They have a lot of Boeing planes and they need parts and lots of things like that. Steve?
REPORTER: How did he persuade Israeli prime minister to accept the Gaza deal? And what would be your message to the Knesset when you speak to them?
TRUMP: Well, he wanted it. You know, it's been a long time. He's been fighting a long time. He's been fighting hard. He wanted it. It's a great deal for Israel, but it's a great deal for everybody, for Arabs, for Muslims, for everybody, for the world. And as you know, on Monday, the hostages come back. They're getting them now. I mean, they're getting them now. They're in some pretty rough places, under earth. They're in some pretty rough places where only a few people know where they are in some cases.
So, they're getting them and they're also getting the bodies, approximately 28 bodies. And some of those bodies are being unearthed right now as we speak. I mean, they're working on it right now as we speak. It's a tragedy. It's a tragedy.
No, he was very happy with it. And I can tell you that I saw Israel dancing in the streets, but they were dancing in Qatar and Saudi Arabia and UAE and many, many countries.
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I saw Egypt, they were dancing. I'll be going to Israel. I'll be speaking at the Knesset, I think, early on. And then I'm also going to Egypt. They were terrific. But all of the countries were great. Indonesia was great. Jordan was great. They were all great. Everybody wants this deal to happen.
REPORTER: What happens in Gaza the day after the hostage release?
TRUMP: Day after what?
REPORTER: The day after the hostage release, what happens there then?
TRUMP: Well, hopefully, you're going to have great success for -- I call it everlasting success. I think you will too. I think I think you're going to have tremendous success and Gaza's going to be rebuilt. And you have some very wealthy countries, as you know, over there, and it would take a small fraction of their wealth to do that. But -- and I think they want to do it.
And we're also setting up, as you know, a Board of Peace. It's called the Board of Peace. I don't know if that's the final name, but the word peace is definitely in there. They have asked me if I chair it. We'll make sure things go well.
REPORTER: And how confident are you that the ceasefire will hold?
TRUMP: I think it'll hold, yes. I think it'll hold. They're all tired of the fighting. Don't forget you had October 7th, which was a horrible day, 1,200 people killed. But Hamas has lost 58,000 people. That's big retribution. That's big retribution. People understand that.
So, no, I think they're all tired of fighting. And this really gives the whole Middle East -- this is beyond Gaza. Gaza is very important, but this is beyond Gaza. This is peace in the Middle East. And it is a beautiful thing. You know, it's a term that you and I have been hearing since we were very young, right? And now we have a chance of really having that.
And as you know, most of the countries have passed all these resolutions. Every country's there. Iran came in. I was very happy to see that. I was very honored that Iran came in. They said they support it. Russia came in. President Putin, he supports it fully, very fully. So, I was happy to see. Even countries that weren't necessarily involved in the process, they all supported. I don't know of anybody that does it.
And I've never seen happier people than many of these places, not just Israel. Many of these places, they're all dancing on the streets. I've never seen anything like it.
Go ahead, please.
REPORTER: Thank you. And what guarantees did you give Hamas to persuade them that Israel will restart the bombing campaign once the hostages have been exchanged?
TRUMP: What did I do with respect to them? Well, you know, I spoke a little bit tough, and that's what would happen. I mean, you have to speak tough. It's -- that's a tough world. That's a tough, as they say, neighborhood. And they're tough people. They're very tough people and they're smart people. They're good negotiators. You know, they have a lot of things going. They put that to good use. They're going to be very, very successful. But they knew the retribution would be tremendous, unsustainable. It would've been unsustainable. Would've been -- it would've been complete obliteration. And they didn't want that. And nobody wants it at this point. They want to get on with, you know, rebuilding the entire Middle East. It's not only Gaza. It's going to be the entire Middle East. They're going to be able to live in peace.
Now, we have little hotspots, but they're very small. You know the ones I'm talking about. They're very small. They'll be very easy to put out. Those fires are going to be put out very quickly.
Yes, ma'am?
REPORTER: Thank you, Mr. President. Talking about the Middle East still, going to the phases that come after this first phase, is there a consensus on the additional points in your plan, or are the details still being fine tuned?
TRUMP: I think there is consensus on most of it and some of the details. Like anything else, it'll be worked out because you'll find out that when you're sitting in a beautiful room in Egypt, you know, it's easy to work something out, but then sometimes it doesn't work from a practical standpoint, so certain little things. But for the most part, there's consensus, yes.
REPORTER: Do you intend to hash that out when you're in Egypt?
TRUMP: I might, yes. I mean, I'll be there because I'll be going to -- I think we'll -- I'll go to Cairo. I think that's where we'll going as opposed to the place of the signing. And we have a lot of leaders from all over the world coming too. You know, they've been invited. And then I'm coming back. I believe it's Tuesday night for Charlie Kirk, a friend of mine, a friend of all of ours, a friend of a lot of the people right here. And we're giving him the Presidential Medal of Freedom, which is the highest honor you get outside of the Congressional Medal of Honor. One's military, one's civilian. But it's the greatest honor. And Erika, his beautiful wife is going to be here and a lot of people are going to be here.
So, you know, it's not easy for me to get back. It's a very quick trip. But I'll be making two major stops and then I'll be on the plane trying to get back in time for Charlie. They're going to have a great celebration at the White House, in the east room of the White House.
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REPORTER: Russell Vought said that the reductions in force have begun related to this shutdown. How many layoffs have you authorized for this first round and from which agencies?
TRUMP: And it would be Democrat-oriented because we figured, you know, they started this thing, so they should be Democrat-oriented. It'll be a lot, and we'll announce the numbers over the next couple of days, but it'll be a lot of people, all because of the Democrats. I mean, they want to give $.5 trillion to people that came into the country illegally. More important than that, because we all have a big heart, we want people to be taken care of. But, you know, we have zero people coming in. You know that Glenn, right? That's a pretty impressive number even for a successful governor. But we've had for the last four months zero people coming in illegally, coming in but they're coming in legally. They're coming in through a process that's really a really good process right now because we want people to come in, but they have to come in legally.
So, what we're doing is, as these different groups come due, we're going to make a determination. Do we want them all a lot (ph)? And I must tell you, a lot of them happened to be Democrat-oriented. These are people that the Democrats wanted that in many cases were not appropriate. We fought them at the time. It was ultimately signed in. And some of these people -- these are largely people that the Democrats want, many of them will be fired.
Yes, please, behind her.
REPORTER: Yes. The Nobel Peace Prize was announced this morning. Your thoughts?
TRUMP: Which one?
REPORTER: The Nobel Peace Prize, your thoughts?
TRUMP: Look, including a very big one, and I'm not sure, you know, when you say big, it's certainly, I think, to the mind of most, the most important deal ever made in terms of peace. But the one we just signed, it's been signed, sealed, and it's going to start taking place now. It's already started. Monday's going to be a very big day when the hostages come back.
But I made eight deals, transactions of wars. One was 31 years going on, 10 million people were killed. One was 34 years, one was 36, 37. One was ten, one was just starting. Two were just starting actually, but they were well on their way. In the case of Indian Pakistan, seven planes were shot down. It was a bad one.
And I did it largely through trade, I mean, that one, numerous of them. I talked tariffs. I said, look, if you're going to do that, we're going to put very big tariffs on your country. And they were both great. They stopped fighting and they were two nuclear powers.
So, you know, they're all big. They're -- every one of them big. You take a look at the Congo, you take a look at the Congo and Rwanda, 10 million people killed over a long period of time, got that one solved. We did a total of eight as of this -- two days ago, I would've said seven, which I did say, but the other one was signed up, sealed. As you know, the Israel signed it just now. They signed it and they approved it today, the parliament. And it's a great honor to be involved with so many.
So, the person who actually got the Nobel Prize called today, called me. And I said I'm accepting this in honor of you because you really deserved it. That a very nice thing to do. I didn't say then give it to me, though. I couldn't say -- I think she might have. She was very nice. And I've been -- you know, I've been helping her along the way. They need a lot of help in Venezuela. It's a basic disaster.
So -- and you could also say it was given out for '24 and I was running for office in '24. You know, all of the transactions that we did in terms of closing. But there are those that say we did so much that they should have done it, but I don't take -- I'm happy because they saved millions of lives, many millions of lives. And speaking of somebody that saves lives, don't ever play golf with him, because Keegan Bradley just walked in, one of the greatest golfers in the world, the captain of the Ryder Cup. And, man, I'll tell you, you did a good job. You almost came back. I turned on, I said, you know, I sort of turned off. It wasn't looking good. And then a little while later, I turned it on, I said, you guys might make -- that would've been the miracle. What a great job. He's respected by those golfers like nobody.
And I just want to compliment you, Keegan. He has a incredible job right here. We have a lot of unfriendly, fake news media. But -- and he's not used to that. He's used to getting only good publicity, I think, Howard. These are all golfers. But you're some golfer, I'll tell you that, and some leader. Thank you very much, great job. Thank you.
REPORTER: Mr. President on China --
TRUMP: Yes, please.
REPORTER: On immigration, ICE are making arrests, target arrest at courthouses in New York City and around the country --
TRUMP: They're arresting criminals, that's right. Yes, go ahead. I'm happy about it. I want them to arrest criminals. And if you take a look at D.C., a year ago, D.C. was this -- our great capital was a very unsafe place. You know that. Some of you were mugged and talk openly about it.
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Some of the media was mugged. But right now, D.C. is one of the safest places in the whole country. The restaurants are booming. They're opening up new restaurants. The restaurants were all closing. Now, you can't get into a restaurant. They're opening up new restaurants.
It took 12 days for us. We sent in, not politically correct, military. We sent them in based on merit. You know, we won the case in the Supreme Court. Everything now is based on merit. Our country was founded on things based on merit, like Keegan Bradley's not going to be playing golf if he wasn't a great player. If he shoots lower scores, it's -- boy, there's no more merit system than that one, Keegan, right? You either -- if you miss a putt, they don't say, oh, that's okay, let's take it again, do they? No, it's based on merit. Everything's based on merit. And we're back to the merit system.
And when they saw that military -- that military is all about merit. They're big, strong people that want to -- they're patriots too. And you take a look at D.C., and now we're in Memphis. And Memphis was really crime-ridden. It was terrible, a lot of people being killed. And they say in 12 days, they can't even believe how much better it is. And it'll take probably a month over there. And we're heading to Chicago because we want to save Chicago.
Do you know they had over 4,000 people killed in Chicago over a short -- 4,000 people, and I have to watch this slob of a governor stand up and say that, well, everything's okay, we've got it under control. They had 4,000 people murdered over a very short period of time. It's -- there's not a city in the world, I don't believe, that can claim, you know, you hear so much about different, I won't, you know, embarrass anybody, like by saying Mexico City or by saying anywhere in Afghanistan. There's no place like that.
And then I have to listen to the mayor, who's got a 5 percent approval rate, maybe less. He's an incompetent man. And the governor's an incompetent guy. He is a guy that was thrown out of his family business like a dog and his -- I know his family very well, and now he's a governor. And when I watch him trying to say that it's okay, we have crime under control, listen, 4,000 people over a very short period of time over, I believe, it's like 6,000, 7,000 people were shot but didn't die, but 4,000 people died. And then he gets up and talks about how it's not a problem.
Or Portland, Oregon, I mean, every time I look at that place, the place is burning down. There's fires all over the place. When a store owner -- there are very few of them left. But when a store owner rebuilds a store, they build it out of plywood and they don't put up storefronts anymore. They just put wood up because they know it's going to be ripped down. And then I hear how wonderful it is. It's not wonderful. It's a disaster. That's almost an insurrection in that place.
So, we put our people in there and they do the job and they've really done the job. And the beautiful thing is we've done it. 12 days we had this place safe and now it's, I would say, within a month, it was beautiful. And it continues to be. That was three months ago. I'll tell you, D.C. now is one of the hottest places. Just like this country. We were a dead country, and you've heard me say it a hundred times, we were a dead country. The king of Saudi Arabia said it. Others say it. The emir of Qatar said it, many, UAE said it. The leader, great leader, UAE, all great leaders, they said effectively the same thing. One year ago, we had a dead country. Now we have the hottest country anywhere in the world.
I just want to thank everybody and I want to, in particular, thank AstraZeneca. What a great company you have, what a company you've built. You've been there a long time and done some job. It's an honor to have you. I assume you're going to build -- so it's $4.5 billion for a plant. That's a pretty big plant, isn't it? I was going to say, could he make it a little bit more. Well, we have a couple of them where they're going to spend $65 billion on one plant, you know, they A.I. All I know is it's -- you know, A.I. is based on information. I hope they're right about information. I don't know. You got to make a lot of money too. It is got to be a lot of information out there, but that seems to be pretty hot. But we have a lot. We're leading the world on information on A.I., as you know, by a lot. It's not even close. So, we're doing a job.
And I want to thank everybody, but in particular, Pascal, thank you very much. It's a great honor. Thank you. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Everybody have a good --
TAPPER: All right. That was President Trump. He took some questions in the Oval Office after announcing a new drug deal between the federal government and the pharmaceutical company, AstraZeneca, noting he has not formally canceled his meeting with Chinese President Xi Jinping despite reigniting a trade war this afternoon, slapping an additional 100 percent tariff on China on top of the preexisting 30 percent.
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He touted his administration's efforts to reduce crime in cities. He touched on the federal firings that started today making a rather bold claim about whom the firings were targeting.
Let's get right to CNN's Kaitlan Collins. Kaitlan, he said a lot, weaved in between topics, as is his want. What stood out to you the most?
COLLINS: Probably those comments, Jake, about who is getting laid off from the federal government. That was something that had been a threat that had been kind of looming over this government shutdown. His budget director said today that the layoffs are coming, known as reduction in force, where everyone's getting notices of whether or not they'd been laid off. But what the president did there was not really make the argument that we've heard at briefings or from White House officials, which is that the federal government doesn't have any money because it's not funded by Congress right now, because the government is shut down and that's why they have to make what they have described as a painful decision to lay people off.
The president didn't seem to describe it as too painful right there. He was basically saying it's meant to inflict pain on Democrats, and he said that it's going to be a lot of Democrat-oriented federal workers that are going to be laid off. And he didn't say how many people it would be, Jake, but he did say it's going to be a lot of people.
And, basically, what he was trying to underline and emphasize is that the reason they're doing this is to inflict pain on the Democratic lawmakers who are fighting to keep the government shut down over that fight for the healthcare subsidies right now. And he was just making it clear and plain of why exactly they are doing this. I think there's still a lot of questions, Jake, of what that's going to look like, so that remains to be seen.
One other thing that stood out to me though in addition to the president suggesting that meeting with Xi is not canceled and also saying he thinks the ceasefire and Gaza will hold because people are tired of the fighting. He didn't get asked about the Tish James indictment that just happened about 24 hours ago, despite the fact, Jake, that we know behind the scenes, he is privately very pleased with it.
TAPPER: All right. Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much.
Trump also, as you noted, spoke about the hostage bodies in Gaza saying that they were, quote, being unearthed, as we speak. He says he thinks the ceasefire deal brokered will hold, as Kaitlan noted.
CNN's Clarissa Ward is in Tel Aviv, Israel, for us. Clarissa, what are you hearing about the potential condition of the returning living hostages? There are about 20 estimated who are still living.
CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So, Jake, what we have heard essentially is that two of those 20 living hostages who are expected to be released now in the next 60 hours ostensibly are in poor health conditions. There are a number of hospitals across Israel that have been prepping for their arrival. One can expect, of course, as well that the other 18 hostages, while they may be in stronger physical health, will also be suffering from the trauma that they have experienced over the last two years.
And we heard earlier Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu effectively saying that it may take longer to find all of the 28 deceased hostages who are supposed to have their remains released as well as part of this 72-hour window, sort of paving the way there ostensibly for a potential delay in how long that takes. We know that Hamas is working alongside the Red Cross to retrieve the remains of those hostages. But, again, there's some delicacy around that because some of them have been moved multiple times, locations have been attacked, et cetera. And so the expectation is that that could take a little bit of longer time.
One other thing I just wanted to say that stood out to me during President Trump's comments that we just played or took live was this idea that there's consensus on most of the 20 points of this plan, but that some of the details are still being worked out. And I do think this is a really important point, Jake, that's being reinforced by my reporting based on conversations with officials in Qatar, in the United Arab Emirates. I've been talking to a defense official about those CENTCOM troops who are already arriving here in Israel, who are basically forming this international stabilization force who will. Essentially be trying to fill the vacuum effectively after, now that the IDF has pulled back to the yellow line and assuming that the withdrawal continues.
But there are still so many questions as to what phase two and onwards of this plan actually looks like. And all of these officials that I talked to, Jake, they say the same thing. Listen, we have just got to get through phase one. There are a lot of balls in the air. The momentum is there. We will make it past it, but we can't even begin to really talk about hammering out the details or stringing out a timeline or a structure for what the future phases look like until we get past the 72-hour window. One U.S. defense official telling me effectively we are building the plane while we're flying it. Jake?
TAPPER: Yes, indeed. Clarissa Ward in Tel Aviv, thank you so much for us.
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Joining us now to discuss, Atlanta Council Senior Fellow Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib, who grew up in Gaza. He's an outspoken critic of both Hamas and Netanyahu. Ahmed, thanks so much for being here.
So, we're seeing videos, thousands of Palestinians are returning to their neighborhoods or what's left of them. Some tell CNN There's a lot of heartbreak as obviously so many homes have been destroyed by bombs. As a Gazan, tell us how you're feeling as you watch this.
AHMED FOUAD ALKHATIB, SENIOR FELLOW, ATLANTIC COUNCIL: Well, I'm heartbroken myself. I got images of our destroyed family homes. I've asked some of my cousins to go and retrieve some of my pictures as a child in Gaza. That's the only thing that connects me to my childhood.
And so I'm very relieved that there is some reprieve from the fighting. I'm very concerned, nevertheless, that the war can resume at any moment after phase one is complete if we're not careful, if we're not as enthusiastic to pay attention to the fact that Hamas is still very much so in control. I want to see more details about who's going to truly be a part of the governance apparatus. I want to see some of those details, not just for me as Ahmed, but so that the people of Gaza can be inspired for a hopeful future.
TAPPER: The 20-point plan is very ambitious. Right now, we're in like the points one through five, getting the hostages back, Palestinian prisoners being released, Israel pulling back. Point six is Hamas militants lay down their arms, or if they're not willing to lay down their arms, leave the country, leave Gaza, leave Palestine. That is a really tough point. I have a very difficult time imagining getting to point seven. Point six is -- I mean, these are terrorists. These are people who do not want to lay down arms. These are people who do not want to go off to Oman or UAE and live a life of luxury. They want to not only govern Gaza, they want to destroy Israel. ALKHATIB: Precisely that. And unlike what we saw in the early 1990s when the PLO renounced violence as a philosophical and a political decision, we're seeing none of that with Hamas. We're seeing them double down on the idea of armed resistance. We're seeing them essentially declare victory, if you will.
And so I think that President Trump, the Arab countries and the mediators owe it to the Palestinian people, to the world, really, to come out and be transparent about how are we going to bridge that gap. We heard President Trump talk about consensus, about the different points. There might be consensus amongst the negotiators and amongst the U.S. and other allies except with -- except that there's no consensus within Hamas itself on this point.
TAPPER: And the Arab League has said that Hamas cannot play a role in the future Palestinian state, which is a remarkable thing for the Arab League to say. But what can the Arab League do to make that happen?
ALKHATIB: Well, they said that statement during wartime. They need to actually say that now during peace time. We saw today Hamas start deploying its police forces all over the Gaza Strip to assert its presence. And so we need the Arab world in their region to rapidly come out and say, we've made an agreement. You are not to have a role in this transitional period, and we need you to commit to what you agreed to by allowing the international transitional force, by allowing the technocratic committee that you said yes to. Only then can there be hope for a true transformation in Gaza.
TAPPER: Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib, thank you. Come back. We're going to keep covering this.
ALKHATIB: Inshallah.
TAPPER: Yes, inshallah. I hope it happens. We all hope it happens.
We're also following this horrible breaking news out of Tennessee. At least 19 people are dead, at the very least, they're missing right now after this earth-shattering explosion at an explosive plant. We're going to take a look at the scene just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:35:00]
TAPPER: The breaking news today on our National Lead, officials say 19 people are either dead, or at the very least, they're missing after this devastating explosion this morning at a military explosives plant in the state of Tennessee.
CNN's Isabel Rosales just arrived there. Authorities just gave an update, Isabel. Anything new on what happened?
ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. What we saw, Jake, was a visibly upset and emotional sheriff here of Humphreys County, Chris Davis, as he shared the heartbreak that his community is going through, and then that staggering number, 19 people dead or missing. Now, we have these stark before and after images of this explosives facility, the blast happening shortly after 7:45 A.M. local time. It actually woke people up miles away who felt their homes rattling. They thought -- some people thought that it was a lightning strike or a car had hit their home. And then it also set off second smaller explosives.
And you can see from these aerial images, these photographs, you can see the scale of devastation of what looks to be a mound of dirt, debris scattered all over the place. And we heard from the sheriff that the debris was found as far away as a half square mile.
Here's what else the sheriff had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS DAVIS, HUMPHREYS COUNTY SHERIFF: We do have 19 souls that we're looking for.
Can I describe the building? There's nothing to describe. It's gone. It's gone. Again, it's the most devastating scene that I've seen in my career.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROSALES: And there were three people with minor injuries from the explosives who have had medical treatment. Two of them were released. There's one who's still being treated at the E.R.
Now, the cause of this is not known. The sheriff is urging people to have patients with this. He says that they're going to be out here for several days, again, 1,300 acres. This is one of the gates leading into this facility that had contracts with the military, with the Department of Defense.
[18:40:05]
And they had here military explosive, things like TNT, C4, PETN, RDX, so major explosives. Obviously, a community here that's so, heartbroken, hoping to get some answers, as this is still a very active site. Jake?
TAPPER: All right. Isabel Rosales in Tennessee, thank you so much.
We're going to bring you now an update to a CNN investigation that we told you about on The Lead more than a year ago. A doctor is today facing charges after dozens of women came forward accusing him of abuse. It's a story you first heard last September on The Lead. That story is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TAPPER: In our National Lead, a court appearance in the last hour for a disgraced former Oregon doctor who was accused of sexually assaulting more than 150 women and children under the guise of providing medical care. [18:45:10]
David Farley was indicted on 11 felony counts, including sexual abuse.
CNN's Meena Duerson first told you about this doctor on the lead last September. Here's her update.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MEENA DUERSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A former Oregon. Doctor accused of abuse by more than 160 of his patients surrendered to authorities on Friday.
David Farley was arraigned on criminal charges including nine counts of felony sexual abuse. It was a dramatic turning point in what has been a more than five-year journey for the women who say he took advantage of his role to abuse them and have been pushing for justice.
NICOLE SNOW, FORMER PATIENT OF DOCTOR DAVID FARLEY: I saw him over 40 times from the age of 15 to 18.
DUERSON: Over 40 times.
SNOW: Over 40.
DUERSON: That's a lot.
SNOW: It's a lot. And in those 40 times, he was able to sexually, sexually abuse me multiple times a year.
DUERSON (voice-over): Nicole Snow was one of Farley's patients. She says the abuse she suffered changed the rest of her life. We sat down with her and several other former patients last year. Many of whom met Farley through the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. They say he was seen as a leader in their tight knit Mormon community.
KATIE MEDLEY, FORMER PATIENT OF DOCTOR DAVID FARLEY: He had a really good ability to make you feel like you're special.
DUERSON: Were there experiences that you had in his office that you now look back on differently?
MEDLEY: One of the main things for me is frequency of penetrative exams. I think I had 11 penetrative exams in four years, and I trust him. Right? He's an ecclesiastical leader at church. Layer of trust. He's a physician layer of trust.
DUERSON (voice-over): Farley was first investigated in 2020, when patients started filing complaints with the Oregon Medical Board and local police alleging sexual abuse, excessive unnecessary breast and pelvic exams on underage patients, ungloved exams, and that he had taken naked photographs of minors for what he claimed were educational purposes.
MEDLEY: You know, we thought it was just us. We had no idea that hundreds and hundreds of women were experiencing, almost literally the exact same thing.
DUERSON (voice-over): Through his attorney, Farley has consistently declined to comment on the allegations against him. The medical board revoked his license in 2020, but in 2022, a grand jury declined to indict him on criminal charges.
The women blamed a botched investigation and begged the state attorney general to reopen the case.
DUERSON: What are you hoping for?
LISA PRATT, FORMER PATIENT OF DOCTOR DAVID FARLEY: I'm hoping that they will put him in prison, hoping that they will take a second look and realize that like he -- a mistake was made and we have the opportunity to right that wrong, and we have the opportunity to save so many women and children.
DUERSON (voice-over): This week, they found out they would finally get their day in court. Sources confirmed to CNN that a confidential grand jury had heard testimony and issued an indictment. One of Farley's former patients, speaking anonymously out of caution over the legal proceedings, told us the relief that ran through my body is indescribable. Just to know that finally something is being done brings peace in my life. May the hands of justice move swiftly and with intention to bring an end to this horrific man.
In court Friday, Farley appeared by Zoom as the charges were read against him. He was released to Utah, where he's since moved on bond. His lawyer could not be reached for comment.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DUERSON (on camera): And, Jake, the judge did say today that if he posts bail, which they set at $500,000, he is free to go home to Utah, which left some of the women who came to see this day in court, left them in tears in the courtroom. And he's due back in November. So we'll keep you updated.
TAPPER: All right. Meena Duerson, thank you so much.
Remember those text messages with violent rhetoric from the man who is now Virginia's Democratic nominee for attorney general? Well, they featured rather prominently in Virginia's one gubernatorial debate. We're going to bring you the heated moments, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:50:58]
TAPPER: In our politics lead, fireworks in Virginia in the first and only debate between former Democratic Congresswoman Abigail Spanberger and Republican Lieutenant Governor Winsome Earle-Sears. Both are running to become the commonwealths first commonwealths first female governor.
And as Eva McKend reports for us now, one main debate topic was the violent text messages from another candidate, not even on the stage.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A fiery face-off in Virginia, setting the stage for the final weeks of a closely watched race for governor.
WINSOME EARLE-SEARS (D), VIRGINIA LT. GOVERNOR: I want to ask this first question is, Abigail, when are you going to take Jay Jones and say to him, you must leave the race?
MCKEND (voice-over): From the opening moments of Thursday night's debate, Republican nominee Winsome Earle-Sears repeatedly pressed her Democratic rival, Abigail Spanberger, over newly disclosed text messages from the party's candidate for attorney general, Jay Jones, suggesting a Republican colleague should be shot.
FORMER REP. ABIGAIL SPANBERGER (D-VA): The comments that Jay Jones made are absolutely abhorrent. I denounce them when I learned of them.
MODERATOR: We just want to clarify. You know, what you're saying is that as of now, you still endorse Jay Jones as attorney general.
SPANBERGER: I'm saying as of now, it's up to every voter to make their own individual decision.
EARLE-SEARS: You have little girls. Would it take him pulling the trigger? Is that what would do it? And then you would say he needs to get out of the race, Abigail? You have nothing to say? Abigail?
MCKEND (voice-over): For her part, Earle-Sears declined to criticize President Donald Trump's recent remarks that he hates his political opponents.
EARLE-SEARS: So, I'm responsible for my behavior and what I've said. I've just said I wouldn't say that. I would not speak that way.
SPANBERGER: When violent rhetoric comes from her side of the aisle, she refuses to denounce it.
MCKEND (voice-over): Another flashpoint in the off year election, transgender policies in schools.
MODERATOR: Should transgender girls who are biological males be allowed to use girls' bathrooms and play on girls' sports teams in K- 12?
SPANBERGER: In cases across Virginia, I think it's incumbent upon parents and educators and administrators in each local community to make decisions locally.
EARLE-SEARS: No men in locker rooms, that's what this is about.
MODERATOR: Ms. Earle-Sears?
SPANBERGER: There should never be nude men in locker rooms. EARLE-SEARS: Oh, my goodness --
MCKEND (voice-over): Spanberger seized on Earle-Sears' past comments about same sex marriage.
SPANBERGER: My opponent has previously said that she does not think that gay couples should be allowed to marry. She has said that she --
EARLE-SEARS: That's not discrimination.
(CROSSTALK)
SPANBERGER: -- quote/unquote, morally opposed same sex marriage.
EARLE-SEARS: That's not discrimination.
(CROSSTALK)
MCKEND (voice-over): The differing debate approaches, Spanberger play it safe style, and the frequent interruptions by Earle-Sears reflected the overall dynamics of the race, with less than a month to go.
Spanberger enters the closing stretch as the clear frontrunner, with a recent "Washington Post" poll showing her holding a 12-point advantage, nearly half a million Virginians have already cast their ballots, with this voter saying the recent controversy over Jones' text did not stop them from voting for the entire Democratic ticket.
HELEN LAROCCO, VIRGINIA VOTER: We've been overwhelmed with so many news feeds, with what's been going on in the world that I think that whole text thing was not that impactful to us.
MCKEND (voice-over): Eva McKend, CNN, Norfolk, Virginia.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TAPPER: And our thanks to Eva McKend in Norfolk, Virginia, there.
Let's talk about all this with my panel. We have with us, Ashley Etienne, and also former Governor Asa Hutchinson.
Thanks for being here. Appreciate it.
So, the Virginia Republican Party slammed the Democratic nominee, Abigail Spanberger, for refusing to call on Jay Jones to drop out last night, saying if Abigail Spanberger can't tell someone who fantasizes about murdering children to drop out of the race, she does not e to be our next governor.
Just tell me what the reasoning is here. She's up by significant points. The text messages are gross. We can all agree. Why not say I wish he would drop out of the race? Or why not retract the endorsement?
ASHLEY ETIENNE, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER FOR SPEAKER PELOSI: I mean, I think it's a fair question, especially given that she made the point that we all run individually.
[18:55:04]
Like I'm not responsible for him.
TAPPER: Yeah.
ETIENNE: He's not on my ticket, right? I didn't choose him. That the voters -- it will be the choice of the voters, which I thought was a really strong answer from her. So, I mean, I think that's a fair question. I can't answer it. I asked it myself when I was watching it.
But what I do think is the top takeaway for me is that Democrats still have vulnerability around transgender issues and even abortion now. I mean, the fact that the answers we haven't formulated a strong answer on either of those two issues when they were big drivers in the November election, really raises some questions for me because we're investing heavily in this race. I mean, the DNC is racing, you know, investing more money than they ever had in any gubernatorial race, $3 million, in fact.
So, the fact that we've got so much is riding on these two races and we've not figured out that issue, I think puts us in a vulnerability going forward.
TAPPER: So, Governor, a recent "Washington Post" poll shows Spanberger with a 12 point over Winsome Earle-Sears. I personally am very skeptical of polls. And in a state like Virginia, that is purplish blue, I don't know that anybody would be 12 points ahead of anybody else.
But do you think that what happened last night might actually have an impact on closing the gap?
ASA HUTCHINSON (R), FORMER ARKANSAS GOVERNOR: Absolutely. I think Sears seized the momentum last night. The Republican candidate went on the attack. It's the only debate that they will have in the closing days of the campaign. I think she did gain momentum.
I think the Democrat candidate, Spanberger, played it too safe. But you have momentum, and that's what you measure at this point. I think the unknown element is going to be in northern Virginia. The reaction to the government closure and how that's going to play out and who's going to be held responsible for that? That's the unknown ingredient here that will impact those votes. But I think that right now, Sears has got the momentum.
ETIENNE: And what's shocking is Spanberger never pivoted or transitioned to the shutdown and the impact of the shutdown, the impact of Republican economic agenda, failed economic agenda on Virginians. I found that to be really, really shocking that she didn't get on the offensive.
HUTCHINSON: She was not prepped well for that debate.
TAPPER: She was very cautious. And sometimes being cautious can be smart. Sometimes it can be a liability. I guess we'll see in November, which this was.
Speaking of governors, Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker did a little skit of sorts on "Jimmy Kimmel Live" on ABC last night, making fun of the Trump administration, saying that that troops are needed for out of control crime in Chicago. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. J.B. PRITZKER (D), ILLINOIS: This is J.B. Pritzker reporting from war torn Chicago. As you can see, there's utter mayhem and chaos on the ground. It's quite disturbing. The Milwaukee Brewers have come in to attack our Chicago Cubs.
We've seen people being forced to eat hot dogs with ketchup on them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: What do you think? Is that -- is that a risk? I mean, you know, there is crime in Chicago.
HUTCHINSON: It's a very serious issue. And humor is always good. He looks a little bit better than Governor Dukakis does in military gear, but it's a serious issue.
And the question as to whether the troops should be called out in crime in Chicago is something that he's addressed vigorously. And it's been in court. I think that his humor is okay. That's enough of that. Let's get back to the real issue of crime in Chicago.
TAPPER: Is it a risk for him? I mean, to be seen? I mean, I get it's a comedy show. It's funny.
ETIENNE: Sure.
TAPPER: But --
ETIENNE: No, I think -- I think right now, Pritzker and Newsom and others are really setting the blueprint on how you really attack and go after Donald Trump.
They're really doing it in three ways. One, they're having a little fun turning the mirror on Trump. Two, they're fighting him, fighting him literally in the courts through legislation, through executive order to protect Democratic principles. And third, I would say what they're doing really is setting a message framework for the Democrats to really lay out the case for how he's, you know, were on a fast track to -- you know, this authoritarian regime and rule a dictatorship, I should say so the word that I was leaving.
So anyway, so I say that to say that, that the Democratic Party needs to take notes from these guys. They're doing on three different fronts, which is both fun and both serious.
TAPPER: Very quickly, do you think -- do you agree with Governor Stitt, that conservative Republican governor of Oklahoma, who said, we believe in the federal system that states rights Oklahomans would lose their minds if Pritzker and Illinois sent troops down to Oklahoma during the Biden administration? Just on a precedent level, do you have an issue with troops going to Illinois?
HUTCHINSON: I do. I think Kevin Stitt expressed it perfectly that we would never allow in a Biden administration troops being sent from Illinois down to Oklahoma. We would be protesting it. Governors and the president should work together on joint issues to the greatest extent possible.
TAPPER: Thank you so much, Governor. Thank you, Ashley. Appreciate it.
Coming up Sunday on "STATE OF THE UNION", Democratic Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona, Republican House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jim Jordan, that's Sunday morning at 9:00 Eastern and again at noon here on CNN.
You can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, Threads, Bluesky, X, and on TikTok @jaketapper.
"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now. Have a great weekend.
