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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Sources Say, DOJ Probe Of John Bolton Focuses On Notes In His Email; Man Pleads Guilty In Pennsylvania Governor's Mansion Arson Attack; Freed Hostage Eitan Horn Reunites With Family; Mamdani Joins Gov. Hochul For Event In Queens; A Mix Of Hope & Fear In U.S. Furniture Capital As Tariffs Arrive. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired October 14, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.

This hour, scary new images just released from the April arson attack on the home of Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro. The suspect pleaded guilty today, and Governor Shapiro's going to join The Lead for an exclusive interview in just a moment.

[18:00:03]

Also, we're hearing more from family members of the 20 freed hostages after yesterday's emotional reunions. The sister-in-law of Eitan Horn, one hostage who came home yesterday, she will join The Lead.

Plus, a possible abduction caught on a doorbell camera, a warning that you might find this video disturbing, a woman in Wichita, Kansas, forcibly taken by a man outside a home. Their identities remain a mystery, so police are asking for help from the public,

But we start with two breaking stories in our Law and Justice Lead. First, brand new details on the Justice Department investigation into former Trump's national security adviser, John Bolton, plus rare remarks from former Special Counsel Jack Smith, who investigated President Donald Trump in two separate federal investigations. Smith blasting the idea earlier today that politics would've played any role in his cases.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACK SMITH, FORMER SPECIAL COUNSEL, DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE: The idea that politics would play a role in big cases like this, it's absolutely ludicrous and it's totally contrary to my experience as a prosecutor from, again, the time I was a junior prosecutor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: CNN's Katelyn Polantz and Evan Perez are here to discuss their reporting. Katelyn, let's start with the Justice Department investigation into John Bolton, Donald Trump's former national security adviser. You and Evan have some new details as to what the Justice Department is actually investigating.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jake. What we're understanding now is more about John Bolton's AOL account, his email. In that email account, we understand from our sources is that John Bolton was making notes essentially in real time when he was serving as Donald Trump's national security adviser in the first Trump administration. And those notes, at one point, were described to me as sort of like a diary entry on some days. They might not be every day, but they're summaries of what he was experiencing.

And that is a big part of what this classified investigation of potential mishandling of classified records investigation around Bolton is it's not just the idea that Donald Trump was angry over his book and that he went through a classification process to make sure his book manuscript was okay to publish. There's this other thing, a driving force of this investigation for many years that make it a serious thing that Bolton could be charged with as soon as this week.

TAPPER: And, Evan, do your sources in the Justice Department think this is actually, possibly a legitimate investigation and case?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I think you see the difference between this case and some of the other ones that have been brought recently. Certainly in talking to sources in the Justice Department, you get the sense that career prosecutors are very much on board with this case, Jake. And part of it, you can see in the court filings where they describe the markings on documents that they recovered, including ones labeled secret and classified.

So, that's part of what is driving this case in a different way than what you saw in the Letitia James and the James Comey case.

TAPPER: And, Katelyn, let's go on to those rare remarks from the former special counsel, Jack Smith. What do you make of the fact that not only is he speaking publicly? He's saying on the record, politics did not play any role in his investigations into President Trump.

POLANTZ: Yes. He says it's absolutely ludicrous that politics would've played a role, and that is a classic prosecutor. That's what you would hear from nearly everyone who's come through the Justice Department.

TAPPER: I've never heard a prosecutor say anything but.

POLANTZ: Exactly. But it is interesting that he's out there talking about this because at this very moment we have the House Judiciary Committee, the chair, Jim Jordan, saying that they want to talk to Jack Smith. They want to bring him in for testimony in some way.

And so we are likely to hear this refrain over and over again. But the fact that he's speaking publicly for the first time and we're hearing him in a private setting with another former special counsel's office prosecutor, Justice Department Prosecutor Andrew Weissmann, that's a very different thing than going under oath and standing behind the work that he did, which they have. And also they've stood behind it in court as well.

TAPPER: And, Evan, Smith also spoke about some of the current actions of the Trump Justice Department. Let's roll some of that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SMITH: Nothing like what we see now has ever gone on. This case in New York City, where the case against the mayor was dismissed in the hopes that he would support the president's political agenda, I mean, just so you know, nothing like it has ever happened that I've ever heard of.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: What do you make of that, Evan?

PEREZ: Look, I mean, I think this is the strongest criticism you've ever heard from him of what the current Justice Department is doing. One of the things he talks about, again, he makes reference to the Comey indictment. And he says that what is happening under the New Justice Department under Pam Bondi and the current Trump administration is outcomes-based. Basically, prosecutors are going after a certain out outcome.

[18:05:00]

They're not following the facts in the law, which is what he says all prosecutors are supposed to be doing.

And he points out, you know, the fact that you have career prosecutors who basically are saying, we don't think it's there, and then they're bringing someone else in to do this case, which is what has happened in the Eastern District of Virginia. And, again, it's a bit of a contrast from the Bolton case that we're watching that could happen again later this week.

TAPPER: All right. Evan, Katelyn, thanks so much.

To another major story in our Law and Justice Lead today, the man who tried to kill the governor of Pennsylvania and his family by setting fire to the governor's mansion in Harrisburg in a chilling, arson attack in April, pleaded guilty earlier today to the attempted murder of Governor Josh Shapiro, also to various counts of terrorism, 22 counts of arson, aggravated arson, burglary, aggravated assault, 21 counts of reckless endangerment, loitering and more. Cody Balmer is his name. He was sentenced to 25 to 50 years in prison. He declined to address the judge about the crime.

And joining us now to talk about it all is Pennsylvania's Democratic Governor Josh Shapiro. Governor Shapiro, obviously, luckily, no one was physically hurt from this attack back in April during the Passover holidays. Today has to be a trying, challenging day for you and for your family emotionally. Do you think that justice was served with this plea deal and how are you and your family doing?

GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO (D-PA): Yes, thank you, Jake. Justice was served and there was real accountability here. My family and I support the plea that was worked out with the district attorney. And I think it is important that we're showing here in America that there is going to be accountability, there will be consequences for this type of political violence. I will tell you just on a personal note as to how my family and I are doing. It's a work in progress. I mean, I'm here at the governor's residence right now, just feet away from where Balmer was, where he set that fire. And so on the one hand, our family feels relieved that we can somewhat close this chapter now and know that there is accountability, but on the other hand, it's a constant process of trying to heal through this.

And I'll just say on a very personal note, Jake, not even as a governor, but just as a dad, the notion that doing the job that I love so much, right, serving my fellow Pennsylvanians, that that would put my kids' lives at risk, that would put my wife's life at risk, let alone my own, that's a hard thing to work through. And, yes, I'm not going to be deterred from doing this work. I'm not going to be deterred from fighting for the good people of Pennsylvania every day but this is not without its toll.

There are example after example, sadly in this country of people walking around with the physical toll of political violence, like Paul Pelosi or Gabby Gifford's. But there's an emotional toll as well, and that is something my family and I continue to work through.

TAPPER: Yes. Look, from covering horrible acts of violence in this country or from wars, I know that I've seen that the psychological scars can last decades, if not a lifetime. And I know you have four kids.

SHAPIRO: Yes.

TAPPER: And extended family that was there because it was the Passover holidays. So, I'm not going to probe anymore about that, but I'm sure we're all praying and thinking of your kids and your wife during this time.

On the matter of this investigation, we're now seeing for the first time the security video from the Dolphin County District Attorney's Office from the moment that the perpetrator set the governor's mansion ablaze. And that too has to be really triggering, knowing, watching that video, and knowing Lori, your kids other members of your family were inside that building.

SHAPIRO: Yes. You know, Jake, I've been trying to unsee that video for the last six months. And today, really, for the first time, Pennsylvanians, Americans saw that video. They saw just the way in which he lied in wait on the grounds of the governor's residence, the way he smashed with a metal hammer the window and threw a Molotov cocktail and ignited a massive fire here, the way he used that same hammer to break in and the way he used that hammer to try and bust through the doors that are literally right behind the camera I'm talking to you on right now, where if he was successful at getting through those doors, he would've been in the living quarters here at the governor's residence and been just steps away from my family and I. It is hard for us as we walk through these halls to know that he was in here as well.

[18:10:00] That said, I must tell you that we're not willing to live in fear. We're not willing to succumb to that fear. And we have found strength from so many people in this commonwealth and across this country who have reached out to us, who have prayed for us, who have really helped us find light in the midst of this darkness. And that strength has allowed us to persevere and push through this. We're not going to be captive to the fear and we're not going to allow ourselves to be victims. We're going to continue to plow forward and do this work that we love. Obviously, we want to do it in a way that keeps us safe and most importantly our children safe, but there's no question that we're going to keep plowing forward.

TAPPER: The district attorney said that the perpetrator told investigators he was concerned about the war in Gaza. He said, quote, I'm not crazy about having to take a life, but I will if it's because of the millions in danger, unquote.

Now, I know that Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, is in your jurisdiction. I'm pretty sure that you don't play any role when it comes to what's going on in Gaza. Do you and investigators think that you were targeted just because you're Jewish?

SHAPIRO: Look, obviously as governor of Pennsylvania, I don't have foreign policy in my job description. But, clearly, the district attorney thought that this was a material fact. He read it in court today. It was part of the evidence that he wanted introduced and on the record when he laid out the rationale for this stiff sentence when the defendant accepted and pled guilty to all of the charges before him.

Clearly, this was a motivating factor. And it goes back to what I was saying before. Whatever is motivating this political violence in this country it needs to stop, whether it's targeting me because of my faith, whether it's targeting someone else because of their ideology, it is not okay. And I think we need all leaders to speak and act with moral clarity, to call it out, to condemn it and to try and take down the temperature so we don't end up in situations like this where public officials are targeted because of their faith or their feelings or their ideology. It's not okay.

TAPPER: So, after the attempted assassination on then-candidate Trump last year in Butler, Pennsylvania, you called for the temperature come to come down for the political violence to stop. This incident against you and your family was in April. And since then, we've seen assassinations of Democratic politicians in Minnesota, we've seen the assassination of conservative activist Charlie Kirk in Utah.

And just from where I'm sitting as a journalist, I see a lot of political violence all over the map, left wing against right wing, right wing against left wing, people targeted for their faith, people targeted for their ideology. Sometimes the perpetrators, you can't even really discern if they are on the political map as much as just nihilistic. And yet I have to say the Trump administration only talks about left wing violence. They do not talk about right wing violence.

I don't even know whether the guy that went after you is left wing or right wing because the anti-Semitism is so prevalent on both sides right now. But talk a little bit, if you would, about that because we hear President Trump faulting the left for political violence and yet you and your family are victims of it as well.

SHAPIRO: Yes. Just a few points, I think it's an outstanding question and it really gets at the heart of this. And you correctly note that we have seen violence against people on the political left and right and violence perpetrated by people who have left wing ideology and right wing ideology.

And you correctly noted that for many of these people, remember, they're picking up a weapon, they're trying to take someone's life. These are not rational thinkers, and so they don't think in a linear way. And so they've got views that are all over the map. And so to suggest that the responsibility of political violence exists on just one side of the aisle or another is absolutely wrong, and I think it is proven to be wrong.

I think it is also important to note that after Butler, I was there calling it out as were others. And what that is, I think, indicative of is my view that we need political leaders to call out the violence that we're seeing, you know, in the political violence that we're seeing. We need leaders to call it out no matter who is perpetrating it or no matter who is a target.

[18:15:03]

And the third point here related to the president is the president has been a victim of this violence and he should know better. He should want to bring down the temperature, and yet he's been cherry-picking which violence he wants to condemn and which violence that he's going to let pass.

You cited numerous examples just sadly in the last few months. It was horrific what happened to Charlie Kirk. And the president was right to call that out. But it was also horrific what happened to Speaker Hortman in Minnesota just a few weeks prior. He should have called that out as well. Just cherry-picking which violence we're going to condemn ends up actually ratcheting up the temperature and making some people feel like there's a past that a little bit of political violence is okay as long as it's directed in a certain way or against a certain type of person.

We need the leader of this country to speak out against all political violence as I try to do every day, and I know as others try to do. And that is how we're going to help bring down the temperature. When people feel as though it's unacceptable no matter what, that's when we can begin to heal and that's when we can begin to repair this nation.

TAPPER: I have a lot of political questions for you, but today's not the day. Will you please come back, Governor Shapiro, so that I can ask you ones that don't have to do with such a traumatic incident to you and your family? And I am personally sending love to your thanks family and everybody touched by the horrific incident in Harrisburg back in April.

Governor Josh Shapiro, thank you.

SHAPIRO: Thank you.

TAPPER: You may find the following video disturbing, but police do need your help in solving this mystery. This is a woman in Wichita, Kansas, seen here being forcibly taken away by a man outside a home, but no one seems to know who they are. We're going to bring you the latest on that investigation.

Plus, the sister-in-law of one of the 20 freed hostages will join the lead to discuss yesterday's emotional reunion between two brothers both taken hostage, one of them released earlier this year, the other released yesterday.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:20:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I returned home, but the truth is only today I am free.

Only now when my little brother, my beloved brother, Eitan, finally returned to us, my heart, our hearts, is whole again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Two brothers reunited. That was Iair Horn, a former hostage held by Hamas. He was released in February. That's him speaking in Tel Aviv earlier today. His brother, Eitan, was among the 20 living hostages who were turned home only yesterday. Eitan had been visiting yet Yair's home when they were both kidnapped by Hamas on October 7th, 2023.

Joining us now to discuss is Iair and Eitan's sister-in-law, Dalia Cusnir Horn. And, Dalia, just to clear it up, you are married to Iair and Eitan's other brother. There's a third brother. How's Eitan doing now that he's back home?

DALIA CUSNIR HORN, SISTER-IN-LAW OF ISRAELI HOSTAGES: So, Eitan is home and I think that's the only important thing because. He's alive and all the rest we can, you know, take care of. He suffers from many things. He's just going through medical tests and exams since yesterday. He lost a very big amount of weight and he suffers from a few things. I think the major part is going to be the mental journey, and it hasn't started yet. But the fact that he's home after a bit more than two years, once again, it's the most important thing.

The first thing he asked once he was here at the hospital was what about all the rest. And he understood that not all the agreement was fulfilled, and we still have hostages, the bodies of the deceased hostages that are not here yet. And we all understand that this is what we have to do right now. But we're joyful and grateful and we thank President Trump and all the U.S. administration and Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner for all that's done for us.

TAPPER: Eitan's the second homecoming that your family has experienced. Your other brother-in-law, Iair, was also a hostage. He was released in February. How does it feel now that they are both back home, they're both safe? Can you and your brother -- I mean your husband, the third brother, can all the kids and anyone else in your family, can you exhale? Can you sleep? Is there any sense of relief?

HORN: This morning was the first time that someone came across by me. And I said, good morning. And I felt like a really mean it, like it was good. And then we had a coffee, me, my husband and Eitan and Iair, and it was the first coffee we had we didn't felt guilty for that, you know? So, the family is whole again, you know, and it's something that we waited for so long.

So, beyond words, you hear all the testimonies and the horrible things they went through, and the torture and the starvation and then he is here.

[18:25:09]

And it's hard to believe that he actually survived it. He's a hero. All of them are. They're superheroes.

TAPPER: Iair, as you might know, was on my show earlier this year and he told us about Eitan. He told us about the guilt he felt that his brother was still a hostage while he had been freed and that it was keeping him from healing. It was keeping him from being able to recover. What does Eitan's safe return mean for Iair's ability to heal himself?

HORN: You know, yesterday, all the family and friends and the entire, you know, people around us send text messages and saying that they're so happy for us and they're glad that we finally got Eitan home. And I told them yesterday we got Eitan and Iair home. It was released to yesterday, eight months after he actually came back from Gaza.

So, I think that's the best description, the fact that there are no more living hostages in Gaza, the fact that the entire, you know, Israeli society and Jewish population, and I think the entire world and the U.S., we have so many people who support us, we can actually know that our people are not held at gun point any second underneath the ground anymore.

TAPPER: Please tell Iair I've been thinking about him ever since that interview. I have a brother too and I can't imagine what he's been through, our love to your family, especially Iair and Eitan and strong prayers for a speedy recovery.

Dalia Cusnir Horn, thank you so much for your time.

HORN: Thank you. Thank you for the support and the love. And thank you. TAPPER: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:00]

TAPPER: Breaking News in our National Lead, police in Wichita, Kansas, say they have found the woman seen in that terrifying doorbell video that we showed you earlier in the show. A warning, the video may be hard to watch. Let's show it again.

CNN Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst John Miller has an update that we just got from police in Wichita. What are they saying, John?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: What they're saying is that around 3:00 today, they were contacted by a 35- year-old woman who said, I am the person in that video. They sent detectives immediately out to pick her up. They brought her to police headquarters where they debriefed her. What they're saying now is they are confident that that is her, that this incident involves what they believe is a domestic violence situation.

But here's the bind they were in, Jake. I mean, it was 2:00 in the morning on Sunday night when a woman is dragged away, literally kicking and screaming into the night. They had to figure out whether they had an abduction and attempted murder. And as we came to Tuesday with no reports of a missing person, they were getting more and more concerned.

Their system though of putting out this video, putting it out again and again, adding a reward, doing multiple press conferences worked, because it is likely that people who knew her called her and said, is that you, and suggested she comes forward, or she just saw it enough times but the strategy succeeded.

So, now we know, A, she's okay, B, they're investigating what happened, and, C, they can end their search for this woman in this very disturbing and violent situation.

TAPPER: All right. John Miller, thank you so much for the update.

Just ahead, I'm going to talk to an American citizen and Army veteran who was arrested during an ICE raid. Hear what the Department of Homeland Securities accusing him of doing and his response to their charges, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:35:00]

TAPPER: In our National Lead, George Retes is a 25-year-old U.S. Army war veteran who served in Iraq. He's an American citizen. In July, border agents arrested Retes during an ICE raid that quickly turned into a protest at a legal Southern California marijuana farm where Retes worked. Retes says he spent three days locked up. He was not given any access to an attorney, and then he was released, never charged with any crime.

Since then, Retes has written articles about his arrest, which he calls wrongful. Then came the assault accusations from the Trump administration. The Department of Homeland Security claims that during his arrest, Retes, quote, became violent and refused to comply with law enforcement. He challenged agents and blocked their route by refusing to move his vehicle out of the road, unquote.

George Retes joins us now. George, as of now, you still haven't been charged with any crime. One would think that if you actually had done what they're accusing you of doing, they would've charged you with something. What is your response to the allegations against you and how did you first find out about what they were saying?

GEORGE RETES, AMERICAN CITIZEN AND ARMY VETERAN DETAINED BY ICE: My response is just if that's just the hill they're willing to die on, then they stand fully behind what they're saying, they should have no problem going to court and addressing what happened if that's like what they believe.

And what was the other question? I'm sorry.

TAPPER: How did you find out about what they were saying?

RETES: Oh, I found out what they had said because my attorneys had called me right away the moment they said something and they just read me what they said. And it was just -- it was so unbelievable. Honestly, it was just crazy to hear them say that because like, there's so much footage and just so much evidence of what they did. And so the fact that they would try to like misconstrue what happened and try to lie to the public and like paint me as the villain, and like make these false accusations against me and spread them is crazy.

TAPPER: So, just to be clear, you deny that you were violent in any way or that you refused to comply with law enforcement in any way, that you challenged agents?

RETES: I never did anything wrong. I complied with --

TAPPER: Yes.

RETES: I complied with everything they said. I was never aggressive. I never assaulted agents. I never refused to move my vehicle. I followed everything they said. I got back in my car. I moved my vehicle out of the way. They left me alone at that point. And all their vehicles passed by and then. They completely left my car alone while I was sitting there trapped in my car with tear gas.

[18:40:01]

And for some reason, after all their vehicles passed by and I was out of their way, they re-approached my car. I don't why they re- approached my car, but for some reason they did. TAPPER: So, the Department of Homeland Security assistant secretary tells CNN that the U.S. attorney's office is reviewing your case along with dozens of others for potential federal charges related to the execution of the federal search warrant at the place where you were working as a contract security guard. You're not concerned though, because you don't think you did anything wrong?

RETES: No, I'm not concerned in the slightest. I'm just ready to start this whole process and get over this six-month waiting period I have of these claims and ready to get justice and find out the truth and get the truth for everyone, honestly.

TAPPER: So, the Department of Homeland Security also denies that any U.S. citizens are being wrongfully arrested by ICE, but I'm sure you disagree.

RETES: 100 percent, I disagree. I mean, I'm not blind to see what's happening out there in the world. I'm not stuck in a bubble. It happens. I mean, it happened to me. It is happening to other people, and so it could really happen to anyone.

TAPPER: George Retes, thank you for your time and thank you for your service to this nation.

RETES: Yes, no problem. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

TAPPER: Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene isn't just defending her political attacks on the leadership of her party, she's amping those attacks up, calling Republican men in Congress, quote, weak. That story's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:45:21]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. KATHY HOCHUL (D), NEW YORK: Among my many conversations with Assemblyman Mamdani, we've also talked about the need for affordable housing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: In our politics lead, today, 21 days out from election day, that's New York's Democratic Governor Kathy Hochul sharing the stage with the winner of the New York City Democratic primary and the frontrunner in the mayor's race, Zohran Mamdani. This was Governor Hochul's first public event with Mamdani since she endorsed the Democratic socialist last month.

Here in the studio is the panel.

And thank you so much for joining us.

So, Kathy Hochul is not going to be on the ballot until next year. She's going to face, Republican congresswoman Elise Stefanik in the governor's race, in all likelihood.

But a recent Siena poll asked registered voters in New York which direction they think the state is headed in. Just 54 of -- 54 percent of Democrats, 27 percent of Republicans and 34 percent of independents or others say that New York state is headed in the right direction. Those are not good numbers for Governor Hochul.

Republicans have made inroads in the state, but they have not elected a Republican governor since George Pataki was reelected in 20 -- in 2002.

Do you think that Mamdani could hurt Hochul with voters on Long Island and Upstate? Or do you think maybe hell help motivate voters to turn out in Manhattan? It will be a wash.

What's your take?

BRAD TODD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, Lauren Gillen and Tom Suozzi, two Democratic congressmen, have already distanced themselves from their mayoral nominee. So, I think that tells you what you need to know.

The state party chairman, Jay Jacobs, of the Democratic Party, has distanced himself. So I think Kathy Hochul is beginning to be on an island.

And the election she will run in won't be decided in New York City. It will be decided on Long Island and Upstate. That's where the swing voters are.

TAPPER: Interesting. What do you think?

KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I mean, I think its a long way out. I wouldn't put too much stock in polls a year out. I think I would even agree with that. But look, I think every Democrat or Republican who is on the ballot anywhere unless you're in a gerrymandered district, should run like your life depends on it, run like you really care what the voters have to say.

I mean, I think one of the things Hochul and those Democrats who have decided that they're going to endorse have realized that what people like about Mamdani is that he's going to try to get caught trying. I mean, he's talking about affordability.

I'm not saying I agree with everything he stands for, but I think voters are saying we want somebody who's going to cut through the red tape and is focused on getting things done.

TAPPER: Right, but obviously, I've never seen anything like this in terms of a New York mayoral candidate. The Democratic candidate has not been endorsed by Chuck Schumer, the leader of the Democrats in the Senate, or by Hakeem Jeffries, the leader of the Democrats in the House.

Here is Jeffries on CNN's "INSIDE POLITICS". Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): I haven't spoken to Zohran since the shutdown started. I do look forward to having a conversation with him before early voting starts in New York later on this month.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So there's a reason why Jeff -- I mean, Jeffries is not. He'll have that seat as long as he wants to have that seat. That House seat, presumably. Why is he not endorsing Mamdani?

FINNEY: You know, I don't -- I don't know the answer to that question. I mean, I know the politics of it is.

TAPPER: Well, why do you think? Tell me the politics of it.

FINNEY: Sure. The politics are -- people are afraid of the Democratic socialist label, which I think is ridiculous. I think we should not. That is playing on somebody else's turf.

I think we should reject that premise and talk about the fact that Zohran Mamdani is running in New York City. He is running and he is doing some things that are very smart. He is realigning the electorate. He figured out, let me get more young people, let me get more working-class folks of color. Let me figure out, let me register new people.

It's a strategy Barack Obama used. It's a strategy Donald Trump used. So, I think -- and he's talking about what they care about. And I think you can be for some of the things he's talking about and be intrigued by that without having to say that you're painted with the whole broad brush.

TAPPER: Why do you -- why do you think?

TODD: Well, Zohran Mamdani, the word "socialist" gets thrown out a lot in politics, but he's the bathtub gin version. He's the straight stuff. He wants to seize the means of production.

TAPPER: He doesn't like capitalism. He said so.

TODD: Right, exactly.

TAPPER: And so, that's not going to play well in the suburbs. Hakeem Jeffries is trying to win the House majority for Democrats. That's all going to happen in the suburbs of New York, for the New York seats. He's trying to avoid becoming the cancer on his ticket that he knows Mamdani is going to be.

FINNEY: But I just think this, you know, this is what people hate about politics. I'm sorry, in that you -- again, you can have a conversation with someone and obviously people will say, oh, my God, that means he's endorsed and the media will go crazy. But it can also just be you had a conversation with the guy.

[18:50:01] TAPPER: You think I'm going crazy?

FINNEY: Not you, Jake.

TAPPER: Okay.

FINNEY: Of course, not you.

TAPPER: Let's turn to some Republican on Republican violence. Marjorie Taylor Greene has already blamed Republican leadership for the government shutdown. In an interview with "The Washington Post," she doesn't seem inclined to stop.

She said, quote, "My district knows I ran for congress trashing Republicans. They voted for me because they agreed with that. My district is not surprised."

What do you think of this?

TODD: Well, Marjorie Taylor Greene is the outlier. When I say the outlier, I mean of the Republican conference in the U.S. House of Representatives, she is the one she wants to be against. Mike Johnson on everything. She tried to vacate the chair.

I don't know that that means she represents north Georgia. Well, I think it means she represents her own fundraising page well, and her own Twitter account well. She wants to be a national celebrity to people who are discontented with everything. And that's her attempt.

TAPPER: So, she's also blaming Republican leadership for treating, in her view, other Republican women in Congress unfairly. She said, quote, there's a lot of weak Republican men, and they're more afraid of strong Republican women. So, they always try to marginalize the strong Republican women that actually want to do something.

She's defending also being one of four Republicans to sign the discharge petition to release the Epstein files. There are three women and one man who have signed that that are Republican. I think for a few of us, me, Nancy Mace and Lauren Boebert, it's such a disgusting issue that we're like, we don't care if we get attacked.

What do you think?

FINNEY: Well, I certainly agree on the Epstein files, and I wish Johnson would you know, let the last vote come in so that we could get that discharge petition done.

TAPPER: Congresswoman-elect Grijalva.

FINNEY: Congresswoman Grijalva. Look, I think she's -- it seems like she's trying, I don't know what her -- you know, where her mind is going. I'm not going to get into the Marjorie Taylor Greene, but clearly, she's --

TODD: If you get a clue on that, let us know.

FINNEY: I will, I promise.

She's clearly trying to tack out, you know, this sort of maybe, you know, maybe a John McCain style -- I'm just saying. She's trying to be --

TAPPER: I don't know about that.

FINNEY: It seems like.

TAPPER: She's -- well, trying to be independent.

FINNEY: Well, not just independent, but, you know, the maverick.

TODD: Unpredictable, I think, might --

TAPPER: Unpredictable.

TODD: Kind word you're looking for.

TAPPER: Thanks to both of you. Appreciate it.

President Trump says new tariffs could help revive America's furniture industry. We are hearing from manufacturers, however, who are afraid those tariffs might do more harm than good. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:56:21]

TAPPER: In our money lead, President Trump says his massive tariffs on foreign goods should help revive America's beleaguered furniture manufacturing industry.

But CNN's Dianne Gallagher explains many business owners in North Carolina, which is the capital of this nation's furniture industry, fear that these tariffs will actually do more harm than good.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALEX SHUFORD, CEO, ROCK HOUSE FARM FURNITURE: We are third generation, sawdust in our veins, North Carolina furniture manufacturers.

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Dubbed the furniture capital of the world, years after outsourcing sent more than half the jobs overseas, North Carolina still produces more furniture than any other state.

Custom-made couches, chairs and tables helped Rock House Farm Furniture in Hickory survive.

SHUFORD: We're seven different brands and 1,700 people.

GALLAGHER (voice-over): Though he'll likely benefit, Alex Shuford is worried President Trump's plan to bring the industry back could backfire. SHUFORD: There's certainly segments of the industry here today that

some form of tariffs can help protect, but we've got to be really careful that the effort to save us doesn't do more damage than good.

GALLAGHER (voice-over): In effect, as of Tuesday, our 10 percent tariffs on softwood lumber and timber and 25 percent tariffs on kitchen cabinets, vanities and upholstered wooden furniture. Those are set to increase on January 1st.

On their own, these new tariffs could be positive, says Dickson Mitchell, the CEO of Fairfield in Lenoir.

DIXON MITCHELL, CEO, FAIRFIELD: That specific tariff on imported upholstery probably helps us. I think my concern, and I think many in our industry are concerned, is, is this a short-term policy or is this going to be sustained over a period of time, long term policy?

GALLAGHER (voice-over): Manufacturing creates stability, and the Trump administrations trade policy has been anything but.

MITCHELL: Extremely difficult to plan for. You know, it's 170 percent, then down to 30 percent types of things like that.

GALLAGHER (voice-over): Shuford says that 80 percent of RHF sales are from North Carolina-made furniture, but it still imports certain materials and uses some foreign labor. He's already absorbing steel and country specific tariffs.

SHUFORD: An industry where profit margins are typically four or five percent, we've been eating half of the global tariff rate for now, five or six months, and we simply don't have the margins to do that. So eventually, that's why this gets passed along to the customer.

GALLAGHER (voice-over): Retailers feel it first.

MITCHELL: Furniture demand is I mean, for the home, it's a discretionary purchase.

GALLAGHER (voice-over): But even if Trump's tariffs do instantly increase demand, there's another obstacle.

SHUFORD: Probably 50 to 75 job openings at my company right now for upholsterers and seamstresses and finish technicians and woodworkers.

MITCHELL: It takes three years to become a above average upholsterer.

GALLAGHER (voice-over): If the president would take a slower approach, industry experts say tariffs combined with investments in training could eventually realistically revitalize the furniture capital of the world.

SHUFORD: My fear is we don't want the medicine that's intended to help us to end up causing so much harm that in the end, it ends up killing us.

GALLAGHER (voice-over): Dianne Gallagher, CNN, Hickory, North Carolina.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: In our last leads today, the pop culture lead, Grammy-winning artist D'Angelo has died after a battle with pancreatic cancer. D'Angelo helped define the sound of neo soul. He rose to fame in the 1990s with his debut album, "Brown Sugar". His breakout hit was called "How Does It Feel?"

(MUSIC)

TAPPER: Known for that risque, mostly nude music video. D'Angelo's real name was Michael Archer.

In a statement, his family called him a shining star. They expressed gratitude for the legacy of the music that he's leaving behind. He was only 51 years old.

You can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, Threads, X, Bluesky and on the TikTok @jaketapper. You can follow the show on X @TheLeadCNN. If you ever miss an episode of THE LEAD, you can listen to the show all two hours whence you get your podcasts.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now. Take it away, Erin.