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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump, FBI Director Tout "Sweeping" Crime Crackdown; Apparent Hackers Take Over Public Address Systems In Four North American Airports, Broadcast Pro-Palestinian Messages; How The Pentagon Sidelined Lawyers While Testing The Legal Limits Of Military Action; Sources: At Least One U.S. Military Strike On Alleged Drug Trafficking Boat In The Caribbean Targeted Colombians; Soybean Farmers React To Tariff Fallout; Sen. Tim Kaine (D-VA), Is Interviewed About Judge Halts Layoffs Of Federal Workers During Shutdown; 2026 Democratic Primaries Put Younger Candidates To The Test. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired October 15, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: All right, thanks very much to my panel. Thanks to you at home for watching as well. And here is Jake Tapper standing by for "The Lead."

Hi, Jake.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Thanks so much, Kasie. Really appreciate it. We'll see you back in "The Arena" tomorrow.

HUNT: See you soon.

[17:00:34]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. We begin with some brand new reporting in our worldly today. This morning I spoke with President Trump on the phone for approximately 10 minutes. We mainly focused on complications having to do with the cease fire and the peace deal between Israel and Hamas. Right off the bat, the president told me, quote, "What's going on with Hamas, that'll be straightened out quickly."

He was referring to the very reason (ph) that Hamas does not appear to be abiding by Trump's 20 point agreement. Specifically 0.4, which states that, quote, "Within 72 hours of Israel publicly accepting this agreement, all hostages alive and deceased will be returned," unquote. As of this morning, all 20 of the living Israeli hostages have been returned, but only nine of the remaining 28 deceased hostages have been released.

I asked the president about images of Hamas shooting some Palestinians in the streets. He said, right now, Hamas is, quote, "going in and clearing out the gangs, violent gangs." When I asked if it was possible Hamas was executing innocent Palestinians, the president said, quote, "I'm doing research on it. We'll find out about it. It could be gangs."

Plus, 0.6 of the 20 point peace deal states that "once all hostages are returned, Hamas members who commit to peaceful coexistence and to decommission their weapons will be given amnesty. Members of Hamas who wish to leave Gaza will be provided safe passage to receiving countries," unquote. So I asked the president what happens if Hamas refuses to disarm. He said, quote, "I think about it. Israel will return to those streets as soon as I say the word. If Israel could go in and knock the crap out of them, they do that," unquote.

But when it comes to Israel's military actions in Gaza, one key thing that Trump also alluded to was that there has been some tension between himself and Prime Minister Netanyahu of Israel. The president says of the Israel Defense Forces and the Netanyahu administration, quote, "I had to hold them back. I had it out with Bibi," unquote.

That said, the president was clearly feeling very positive about long term prospects for peace, telling me, quote, "59 countries are part of this." He was referring to all the countries that were at the ceremony for the peace process and also those who have expressed support for the plan, quote, "We've never seen anything like this. Now it's all happening. They want to be part of the Abraham Accords, now that Iran isn't a problem," unquote.

We also talked about Russia's ongoing war in Ukraine. The President saying that he's working hard in resolving that conflict. He then wondered which would be a bigger accomplishment piece in the Middle East or the end of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. I did note to him that the Middle East conflict has been historically more difficult to solve. The President said "True. One's been going on for three years, the other 3,000.

True to Trump form, during our conversation, the president also took a moment to criticize the news media. Specifically, he took issue with Vice President J.D. Vance's recent interview with ABC News. He also said he hopes that CBS News will now -- will now become, quote, "fairer" with the new management run by the Ellisons saying, quote, "I don't expect CBS to become like Fox. Just fair."

I did of course take the opportunity to express once again CNN's desire to have a sit down interview with President Trump in person. He has refused to do so with CNN since 2016. He seemed to suggest he would think about it.

This afternoon Hamas admitted it has released all the hostages' bodies that they can access, they claim. They say they would need, quote, "special equipment to get to the rest." This as the gruesome videos surface showing what appear to be Hamas terrorists violently executing Palestinians in Gaza City. CNN's Jeremy Diamond reports on what we know about these public killings. And we want to warn our viewers some of the images we're about to show you are quite disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the middle of a public square in Gaza City, eight bound and blindfolded men are dragged out and forced to kneel. One by one, armed Hamas militants take up their positions behind them, aiming rifles at their heads before opening fire. All eight men fall to the ground executed. This is part of the grim reality of post ceasefire Gaza as Hamas forces say they are carrying out a, quote, "comprehensive security operation to root out those they accuse of collaborating with Israel." With these bodies, Hamas also reestablishing the element of fear it has used to rule Gaza for years as it looks to reassert its dominance over a decimated Gaza Strip.

[17:05:19]

Amid its ceasefire with Israel, Hamas is now putting on a show of force in Gaza's streets, attacking other armed groups, from gangs backed by Israel to powerful clans that have a history of clashing with Hamas. The Dughmush clan, which denies collaborating with Israel, has accused Hamas of killing nearly 30 members of its family in the last week. U.S. Central Command, which is monitoring the ceasefire, urging Hamas to "immediately suspend violence and shooting at innocent Palestinian civilians in Gaza." DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's going to hold up.

DIAMOND (voice-over): The violence is a reminder of unresolved issues at the heart of President Trump's plan to end the war in Gaza. Hamas' handover of power, the establishment of an international security force, and Hamas' disarmament all still being negotiated.

TRUMP: Well, they're going to disarm because they said they were going to disarm. And if they don't disarm, we will disarm them. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How will you do that?

TRUMP: I don't have to explain that to you. But if they don't disarm, we will disarm them.

DIAMOND (voice-over): The ceasefire deal already proving fragile. Hamas has only returned the remains of nine of 28 deceased hostages so far. Some are pending DNA testing. And Israel says one body Hamas handed over was not that of a hostage. Hamas says Gaza's destruction is complicating matters.

Israel has continued killing Palestinians, at least 15 since the ceasefire went into effect according to the U.N.'s human rights office. The Israeli military says it has fired on Palestinians who approached Israeli lines in Gaza. In the ruins of Gaza, an uncertain future and a long road ahead.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DIAMOND (on camera): And, Jake, we just heard from a senior U.S. adviser weighing in on the situation of Hamas' return of bodies. They said that they don't believe that Hamas is violating the deal. They said they are satisfied that Hamas has been returning deceased bodies of hostages every single day since this deal has been in place. And they acknowledged that it is a complicated situation on the ground, that they're working to get specialized teams to be able to sift through the rubble and retrieve more of the remains of these deceased hostages. And they said they are committed to getting all of the deceased hostages bodies back to their loved ones in Israel. Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Jeremy Diamond in Israel, thank you so much.

Coming up next, the secret operation that President Trump described just moments ago, revealing how his administration has disrupted widespread organized crime in United States cities. His announcement next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:12:03]

TAPPER: In our politics lead this afternoon at the White House, President Trump touted his administration's efforts to reduce violent crime.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Today we're announcing the results of a sweeping law enforcement effort known as Operation Summer Heat. We were in many cities that people didn't know about. The FBI has also destroyed or severely disrupted more than 170 organized criminal enterprises and gangs, 1,600 of the most violent gangs and confiscated over 6,000 illegal firearms. And they've tracked down and arrested four fugitives on the most wanted list.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: CNN's Kristen Holmes and Evan Perez are here.

Evan, Trump cited a 20 percent decrease in violent crime compared to last year at the same time. Do all these statistics he's citing check out?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, the reduce -- reduction in crime is a long term trend. As you know that the -- that the reduction in crime began a couple of years ago, obviously after the -- some of the peaks that we saw during the COVID era. And so this has been a long running story that the administration, the current administration doesn't want to really tell the full story and doesn't want to give credit to some of the reductions that happened before they took office. But there is no denying that a lot of these numbers are based on the fact that there is -- there is a lot more law enforcement presence and there's more of a surge by federal law enforcement. But they're also taking credit for some of these task forces that include local law enforcement around the country.

One of the things that they talked about in this press conference, Jake, was they talked about taking credit for the suspect who is going on trial for the Aby Gate, the Abbey Gate bombing during the withdrawal in Afghanistan. You remember, of course, that they just fired the top prosecutor who is doing that case.

TAPPER: And Kristen, Trump seemed a little surprised at his administration's focus on the crime crackdown, right? KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I mean, somewhat. But of course, Jake, we know that President Trump not only ran on this issue, he also ran on the issue of actually using federal law enforcement in a number of different ways, whether it was cracking down on crime, putting them in cities as well as with immigration. This is something that was written about in Project 2025. But he still did say seem somewhat surprised that they'd taken it this far. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I campaigned on crime, but I never thought we'd go into every city and take a really safe city that we've all been living with for years and make them safe. And now it's like a passion for me and it's a passion for the people behind me. So I didn't get elected. I did get elected for crime, but I didn't get elected for what we're doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Now part of the reason he's talking about this passion is because we've heard from a number of administration officials and White House officials that the White House believes this is a winning issue for them. They believe it is hard for Democrats to go up there and say we don't want help fighting crime, we don't care about crime. That's what their argument is in terms of a political issue.

[17:15:08]

We also know that Stephen Miller, the deputy chief of staff, has really been pushing this issue. And you heard President Trump in there essentially saying that he loves watching Stephen Miller talk about this on T.V. He loves what he's done with this issue. And it is Stephen Miller who has been pushing this issue of not only fighting crime, this idea of federalized fighting of crime, even in cities that don't necessarily want federal help.

TAPPER: All right. Kristen Holmes and Evan Perez, thank you so much.

Coming up next, the disturbing message heard in multiple airports in North America that appear to be a cybercrime. Plus, some new reporting from CNN on how leaders at the Pentagon sidelined lawyers while testing the legal limits of their own military actions.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:20:16]

TAPPER: In our national lead, four airports in North America yesterday had their public address systems hacked. Flyers at those airports, three in Canada, one at Harrisburg International Airport in the capital of Pennsylvania, heard unauthorized pro-Palestinian political messages praising the terrorist group Hamas and attacking President Trump. Let's bring in CNN's Josh Campbell.

Josh, how are authorities going to try to figure out who did this? JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is now a joint investigation. U.S. authorities and their Canadian counterparts trying to get to the bottom of who may have been responsible for this. I mean, all of us who fly, we're aware of that public address system. It tells you where to go, when your flight's boarding, when there's a gate change, security updates and the like. But what we're learning is that yesterday passengers in at least four North American airports heard this pro-Hamas messaging. Take a listen here to some of the audio that was played.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Netanyahu and Trump, Turkish hacker Cyber Islam was here. Telegram channel Cyber Islam, free, free Palestine. Free, free Palestine. Free, free Palestine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMPBELL: Now those messages certainly stopping people in their tracks. And authorities at this point, it seems to believe that this is more mischief than malice. There weren't any indications of threats that were made. But we do know that at least one location, a flight that was boarding, had the boarding halted, the flight was searched just out of an abundance of caution. Of course, this comes as we've been reporting on cyber hacks at various airlines as well as airline check in systems in recent days.

So something that authorities are certainly taking seriously. So worth pointing out that if they are able to identify who may have been responsible, this could potentially carry jail time. U.S. federal law provides that type of penalty for hacking, unauthorized use of devices to hack a system.

TAPPER: How concerning is it from a security standpoint? I mean, hackers being able to gain access to PA systems in four airports, I could envision that causing a lot of actual damage if it was a different message.

CAMPBELL: No, absolutely. And really two things here, there's the first, the PA system itself. Again, we can expect authorities are going to, you know, drop the hammer here, throw the book at whoever may have been responsible because those PA systems are also critical parts of airport security. If there's some type of emergency, if there's some type of God forbid attack and the like, it's those PA systems that tell people where to go, whether that's man made, whether it's, you know, natural disaster and the like. So if that's then clogged up with this type of messaging, that's something that they will probably pinpoint.

But also the whole idea of a cyber-system itself being vulnerable to this. Of course, the big question that is raised, we're talking now about a PA system, but what other types of computer systems at airports might also be vulnerable? Those are all the big questions on the table right now.

TAPPER: All right, Josh Campbell, thanks so much. Appreciate it. Now to our politics lead, a new CNN reporting today about how the Pentagon has sidelined officials who have raised concerns about the military testing legal limits concerning its actions and policy. CNN's Pentagon Correspondent Natasha Bertrand's here.

Natasha, what did you discover here?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jake, I was really interested in exploring this question because so many of the Pentagon's policies over the last several months have really tested the limits of the law, according to many judge advocate general officers, military uniformed officers that I spoke to said. And that really shines through in one particular anecdote, which is the firing of the Army's top uniformed lawyer earlier this year, Lt. Gen. Joe Berger. We discovered that a few weeks before he was fired, he had been raising significant concerns about the use of Texas National Guard soldiers for immigration enforcement down at the border. He had significant questions about whether they were appropriately trained for that kind of mission. He had also been raising a lot of legal concerns internally about the mass firings of probationary employees across the Department of Defense.

In both instances, he was very much brushed off and brushed aside, according to sources that we spoke to. And then, of course, a few weeks later, he was fired along with the top uniformed lawyer for the Air Force. And sources that we spoke to said that they really viewed that as kind of a warning shot to the entire corps of uniformed lawyers in the Pentagon as the administration and the Pentagon in particular has sought to kind of test the boundaries of the law when it comes to a number of different issues, whether that's kicking all transgender service members out of the military, firing large swaths of employees across DoD and of course those U.S. military strikes that we have been seeing in the Caribbean, which many current and former uniformed lawyers across the Department of Defense told me seem patently unlawful. Jake.

TAPPER: And you also have some new reporting today about one of these recent military strikes on these boats in the Caribbean and specifically who was targeted.

[17:25:07]

BERTRAND: Yes. So we're learning that these U.S. military strikes actually go beyond. Just boats coming from Venezuela and carrying Venezuelans suspected of being members of Tren de Aragua, that criminal organization in Venezuela. We're told that at least one US military strike on September 19, the third publicly known U.S. strike that targeted Colombians, it targeted Colombians who actually had left Colombia. And so this really signals an expansion of the U.S. military's campaign in the Caribbean. It shows that they are not just going after one particular cartel or drug trafficking organization. And it's important to remember that they actually have a secret list, we're told that the Justice Department has compiled and said in this opinion that has not been made public the administration and the president has the authority to conduct lethal strikes against. And so this is a campaign that is far reaching. It's extremely broad and it doesn't have an end date as far as we know. And so I think that as we see this campaign continue to unfold, it's important to remember that it is really not limited in scope. It is not limited to one particular country even. And you know, just as one data point here in terms of the military buildup, we saw-B52 bombers operated by the U.S. Air Force flying for roughly four hours today right off the coast of Venezuela in what appeared to be a show of force.

Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Natasha Bertrand, thanks so much.

Coming up next, the financial crisis facing American farmers, especially those who harvest soybeans as they deal with foreign buyers getting their supply well beyond U.S. borders. Why they blame President Trump's tariffs. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:31:04]

TAPPER: In our Money Lead, soybean farmers across the United States are grappling with higher costs and lower demand as a result of President Trump's ongoing trade wars. Rather than pay the increased prices with tariffs, major markets such as China are looking elsewhere for the commodity, and countries in South America, well, they seem more than happy to step in and fill the void. That includes countries such as Argentina, whose president met with Trump just yesterday to discuss a possible $20 billion bailout, a move that farmers say will directly benefit their competition overseas. CNN's Whitney Wild traveled to Illinois to hear directly from farmers about what they need right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: What was it like growing up here?

JOHN BARTMAN, FARMER: Oh, it was wonderful. It's a wonderful place.

WILD (voice-over): John Bartman is a soybean farmer whose family has been working Illinois land since before the Civil War. Here in Marengo, a farming community where the land and sky feel endless, John sees a crisis on the horizon.

BARTMAN: So this is 4,134. That's roughly $40,000 worth of soybeans that we have harvested, and a couple of years ago, that was easily $60,000. It's what we do in this country. We export food, and we can't do that right now.

WILD (voice-over): The price of soy dropped under the Trump administration, largely the result of the Trump administration's trade war with China. John's crops, diligently planted, meticulously cared for, are losing their value.

WILD: Are you angry?

BARTMAN: Oh, yes. Oh, I'm totally mad. There's no reason for it. This is absolute stupidity. This is a man-made crisis caused by Donald Trump, period.

WILD (voice-over): Soybeans are the largest agricultural export from the U.S. Last year, the value was more than $24 billion. China bought 52 percent of those soybeans. Since May, the country has placed zero orders. Instead, China bought the bulk of its soybeans from South American countries like Brazil and Argentina. The cost to produce soybeans has also increased. Prices for fertilizer and fuel have also edged up as a result of Trump's global tariffs and higher international demand.

CRAIG SWARTZ, FARMER AND COOPERATIVE BOARD MEMBER: Farming is the biggest poker game they've ever created.

WILD (voice-over): Craig Swartz is a fifth-generation farmer. He sells soybeans, corn, and wheat.

WILD: When you're driving this and you're spreading all that fertilizer, are you just hearing, like, ching, ching, ching, ching, ching, ching?

SWARTZ: Oh, yes, yes.

WILD: Money going down the drain?

SWARTZ: Yes, and yes, for sure. And when we're not in it, you see all of them driving around the countryside, and it's like, oh, my gosh, look at all the money that's going out.

WILD (voice-over): Craig says he's using less fertilizer and hoping for trade relief.

SWARTZ: I'm hoping that our leadership in Washington, D.C., whether it's Republicans or Democrats, can come together and put a plan together and get us straightened out.

WILD (voice-over): As Craig squeezes every dollar, researchers are stretching soy's potential.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: See how strong this material is.

WILD (voice-over): At Northern Illinois University, students at this innovation lab are developing new uses for soy in an effort to increase demand.

SARA JEAN BROWN, MECHANICAL ENGINEERING STUDENT AT NIU: So these films are designed to be completely edible. So food packaging, we're going to develop it into a spray coating as well.

WILD (voice-over): The multimillion-dollar research is funded by the Illinois Soybean Association.

WILD: What would you tell the president right now if you could sit down with him? Like you and I are talking, what would you say?

MARK READ, DISTRICT 5 DIRECTOR FOR THE ILLINOIS SOYBEAN ASSOCIATION: I say let's pay some attention to agriculture. I think it's a political game, and I think he thought he had more of the cards than what he has.

WILD (voice-over): President Donald Trump insists farmers will win the trade war. Posting on Truth Social October 1st, we've made so much money on tariffs that we are going to take a small portion of that money and help our farmers. I will never let our farmers down.

READ: Farmers don't want free aid. We want free trade.

BARTMAN: Bailout's not going to do it.

WILD: Once you lose a customer like China, can you ever get them back?

BARTMAN: I sincerely doubt it. Why would they?

WILD (voice-over): Whitney Wild, CNN, Chicago.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: Whitney Wild, thanks so much.

[17:35:03]

A major ruling on this day 15 of the federal government shutdown. Federal judge is now blocking President Trump from firing any additional federal workers. But a top Trump administration official says future layoffs will reach north of 10,000. Those are permanent layoffs. How is this government shutdown standoff going to end? We're going to talk to senators from both sides of the aisle coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: And we're back with the Politics Lead. The government shutdown is in its 15th day and Democrats on Capitol Hill are still refusing to back down from their demands that Obamacare subsidies be extended before the government can be reopened. The Trump administration is now projecting permanent layoffs that could impact more than 10,000 federal employees. Although a federal judge earlier today halted the layoffs, calling them unlawful.

[17:40:15]

Let's bring in Virginia's Democratic Senator Tim Kaine. Senator Kaine, thank you for joining us. So in light of all this layoff news today, are Democrats in the Senate still feeling strong about your strategy on the shutdown?

SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA): Jake, I -- I think we are feeling strong because of what we're hearing from our constituents. The Senate is in. We -- we've never gone out. The House hadn't been here for weeks. But I do on weekends. I travel around Virginia. The last three weekends I've been in all parts of the state. And what I hear from people is they appreciate the position that we're taking, that we -- we need to stop their health care premiums from dramatically spiking between now and the end of the year, which is a natural effect of the reconciliation bill that President Trump and Republicans passed over the summer. They want us to stop their health care costs from going up.

They're seeing too much price inflation on food and building supplies and farmers having to pay more for fertilizer. They don't want to pay more for health insurance. And we're hearing that from constituents everywhere. And then there's the second issue that's really important in this is we have to get an agreement from the White House that a deal really is a deal, that they won't do a deal and then just fire more people next week or cancel more economic development projects hurting Virginia and other states or taking back more public health money. So those are the two issues. Let's fix health care and let's assure that a deal is a deal.

TAPPER: Have you and your Democratic colleagues lobbied Republican senators to support extending the Obamacare premiums, the Obamacare subsidies? Would there be more than 50 votes for that in the Senate?

KAINE: Yes. We -- we believe there is. It's -- it's a little bit of a timing issue. But, Jake, I know you follow this. Many Republicans, and not just a few, have said, you're right, we have to fix this -- this premium issue so people's premiums don't spike. They -- they get it. They say they know they need to fix it.

And we're saying, let's -- then let's go ahead and fix it now. The one ingredient that is missing right now is a President who's engaged. The Democrats put an alternative on the table on the 18th of September. He told the House, write a budget that -- and don't deal with Democrats. But we put an alternative on the table and asked to meet with the President. As you know, he finally agreed to do it the day before the shutdown deadline and then just ridiculed the Democrats with A.I.- generated videos of them wearing sombreros and speaking words that they didn't really say.

He's not taking it seriously. He met with the president of Argentina yesterday to give him $20 billion when Argentina is now making money because China won't buy our soybeans, but he won't meet with congressional leaders to find an off-ramp. Once he engages, this thing will get solved in 48 hours.

TAPPER: Virginia, as I know you know better than I, Virginia is one of the states or commonwealths with the most federal workers in the country --

KAINE: Yes, yes.

TAPPER: -- nearly 150,000 in September of last year, according to the Office of Personnel Management, although that was before the DOGE cuts. You must have employ, you know, constituents who are federal employees who are not being paid right now --

KAINE: Yes. TAPPER: -- and are frustrated and maybe aren't confident that this is the right approach.

KAINE: Well, I -- I certainly, in the last three weekends when I was traveling around Virginia, I was everywhere and not just talking to Democrats. But the overwhelming message from Virginians is Donald Trump started to punish us the day he was inaugurated, and it's time to stand up and get the punishment to stop. It -- it -- I'm not hearing the message, you got to give in to the bully. They're -- they're saying, we're tired of it.

We're tired of the layoffs. We're tired of canceling economic development projects and having funds pulled back from the state. It's time to draw the line and stop it. So you're right. I -- I think I have the second most federal employees. California has more, but we probably have the most per capita.

And -- and it's painful. But I'm meeting people everywhere I go who have lost a job or their spouse might lose a job, but they are saying, stand up, show some backbone. The President can't say we're only going to do a budget and not deal with Democrats at all and expect Democrats to vote for it.

Let's fix this health care problem, which -- which affects Republican parts of my state, frankly, more than the blue zones of my state. Let's fix it together. And let's get a President who will just agree that if we make a deal, he'll honor the deal.

TAPPER: "Politico" ran a story yesterday making a lot of waves. It was about a shocking group chat with leaders of a young Republicans organization. And in the messages were vile bigotry and filth talking about loving Hitler, full of racial slurs, musings about putting enemies in gas chambers, sexually assaulting them, flip references to Hitler.

[17:45:08]

Vice President Vance was asked to comment on that today. And in response, he cited these text messages that have rocked the attorney general's race in Virginia. Democratic Attorney General candidate, Jay Jones, had written some pretty horrific messages a few years ago, 2022, about a Republican legislator and his family. Take a listen to Vice President Vance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A person who is very politically powerful, who is about to become one of the most powerful law enforcement officers in the country, that person seriously wishing for political violence and political assassination is 1,000 times worse than what a bunch of young people, a bunch of kids say in a group chat, however offensive it might be. That's just the reality.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So you have condemned what Jones wrote in those text messages. KAINE: Yes.

TAPPER: But you, and there are no Democratic officials in Virginia who have called for Jones to drop out of the race and Democrats are seizing that -- on that as a political opportunity and basically saying, hey, Senator Kaine, you don't have the moral high ground here. What -- what do you think of that?

KAINE: Well, and -- and look, the Republican gubernatorial candidate in Virginia has said some vile things and we haven't called on her to drop out of the race. The voters are going to make this decision. The Jay Jones texts were abhorrent and they are indefensible, but I also have known Jay Jones for 25 years and I put that knowledge on a scale and it weighs more than one really indefensible set of texts.

But I'll tell you this, Jake, it's interesting to know Jay Jones has earnestly and sincerely apologized and said he made a grievous error. What did you hear from J.D. Vance? Did he say any of these texts were wrong? I didn't hear any condemning of the texts. I didn't hear him having any concerns about what was said. So look, I think people in public life, when they make mistakes, they ought to apologize at a minimum. And I've heard that from Jay and I certainly haven't heard it from J.D. Vance.

TAPPER: Well, I don't know Jay Jones, but I know you a little bit and I cannot imagine you ever saying anything like that. Is it possible you don't know him as well as you thought you did?

KAINE: Well, that -- that -- look, you read these and it's -- it's shocking. It is -- it is shocking. I do know him well. I've known him since he was a teenager. I ran against his father for lieutenant governor in a Democratic primary in 2001. It's been 25 years ago. I think I know him pretty well. This was clearly a very -- he was very worked up about something at the time and shared thoughts in a way that shouldn't come across your mind, much less get put into a test.

The voters are going to have to figure that out. But knowing him for 25 years gives me a vantage point on him. And that's why I'm still supporting him. But again, on the political story about these texts, I don't -- I don't know. I haven't heard any contrition coming out of the folks that were involved. Maybe I -- maybe I've missed it. I've been -- I've been here working on trying to get this defense bill done and get government reopened again.

TAPPER: I think there has been some contrition from some people, some players, but perhaps not enough from the Republican Party in general. But then again, I'm sure they would say the same about Jay Jones and the Democrats. Senator Tim Kaine of Virginia, thank you so much. Really appreciate your time today.

KAINE: You bet.

TAPPER: In just a few minutes, we're going to get a Republican senator's point of view on the shutdown stalemate. And this big programming note, a live CNN town hall is going to go down tonight. Independent Senator Bernie Sanders and Democratic Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez are going to join with CNN's Kaitlan Collins in a town hall to discuss the path forward, to take audience questions. It's Shutdown America: A CNN Town Hall. It's live tonight at 9 o'clock Eastern, only on CNN.

[17:48:56]

Next here on The Lead, the new candidates jumping into some hotly contested races and renewing a debate over age in politics.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. This hour, a judge blocking President Trump's planned layoffs of federal workers during the shutdown, ruling that they're unlawful. But what exactly? Let's bring -- let's brought -- bring in the panel right now to talk about politics. We have with us Ashley Etienne and former Congressman Peter Meijer.

Gentleman or gentlelady and gentlemen, let's start -- start right now with the fact that Congressman Seth Moulton, who's 46, has launched a new campaign to replace Senator Ed Markey, who is 79 years old. Here's a little bit of his announcement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. SETH MOULTON (D-MA): With everything we learned last election, I just don't believe Senator Markey should be running for another six- year term at 80 years old. Even more, I don't think someone who's been in Congress for half a century is the right person to meet this moment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So, what exactly do you think about this, Ashley? This is the second notable Senate campaign launch this week. The other in Maine is a little different. It was Governor Janet Mills launching her bid. She's 77 years old. She's going to be up in the primary against a 41- year-old candidate named Graham Platner, who's a Marine Army veteran and oysterman. Are Democratic voters ready to take a chance on younger candidates, do you think?

ASHLEY ETIENNE, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR VP HARRIS: I mean, I definitely hope so. I mean, you look all -- all over the country and young people are coming out in big numbers, electing younger elected officials. Here's the thing, though. You know, I think our -- there's old members in both parties. Do I think it's time for a generational shift in change and leadership on the Democratic side? Absolutely. But I do think that the critique should be less about age and more about effectiveness.

[17:55:06]

We have a lot of young leaders in the Democratic Party now that are proven not to be very effective. So, I remember when Seth Moulton was trying to run against Speaker Pelosi when I was working for her. And he made the argument that she was too old and she didn't need a -- didn't deserve a second at bat in terms of the speakership. And that was her best performance of her entire career, the Trump 1.0.

So, I do think that we need to really focus more on whether or not these elected officials are effective. And I think my advice to Seth Moulton would be to focus on his own record, what he's been able to do to really drive the point that we need new leadership, because we need new ideas and we need effective leaders.

TAPPER: We have seen, Congressman, other Democrats launching primary bids and -- and the older incumbents, Jan Schakowsky in Chicago, Gerald Nadler in New York, ultimately announcing that they're not going to run for re-election. What dynamic do you see in play with the Massachusetts Senate race?

PETER MEIJER, FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE, (R-MI): No, I -- I think it makes perfect sense to be looking at especially a Senate seat and say, hey, you know, I believe Senator Markey is 77 years old. You know,. what's -- what's that going to look like six years from now? This was the argument as well during the presidential campaign, you know, around whether or not Joe Biden had the fitness to continue on. I mean, the reality is that within Congress in the past two decades, the number of septuagenarians and octogenarians has quadrupled.

It is a bipartisan problem, for sure. Democrats are a little bit worse at it. But a lot of that's just because you are, you know, have parties and outside organizations that are supporting incumbents, that are supporting the people that they know. And then the challenge becomes, you know, the United States Congress was not intended to be a retirement facility.

The number of members who end up dying in office, I mean, you would think it's an incredibly dangerous profession up there with logging and, you know, deep sea fishing. How many folks end up dying in that line of work simply because they don't know when to let go. You have Eleanor Holmes Norton. She is, you know, representing Washington, D.C. as a non-voting delegate. I mean, she's 88 years old and was kind of nowhere to be seen with all of the issues going on between the Trump administration and the District of Columbia.

I mean, the question of effectiveness is a very valid and legitimate one. But I think oftentimes that is the exception rather than the rule when you have folks who in any other industry would have been forced to retire decades prior.

TAPPER: A story in "Politico" yesterday exposed an astonishingly hateful group -- group text of leaders of young Republican organizations earlier this year. To sum it up, "Politico" writes that these individuals, quote, referred to black people as monkeys and the watermelon people, mused about putting their political opponents in gas chambers. They talked about raping their enemies, driving them to suicide, and lauded Republicans who they believed supported slavery. Two of the individuals have now offered apologies.

"Politico" says at least one of them has lost their job. Several prominent Republicans have condemned the messages. The Vice President has also reacted, not so much with condemnation. Here is what he said earlier today on "The Charlie Kirk Show." (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VANCE: The reality is that kids do stupid things, especially young boys. They tell edgy, offensive jokes like that's what kids do. And I really don't want us to grow up in a country where a kid telling a stupid joke, telling a very offensive stupid joke, is cause to ruin their lives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: We should -- we should note that, I don't know why he's calling them kids. The individuals in this organization range anywhere from 18 to 40 years old, the Vice President is 41, so I don't know if he considers himself a kid. What -- what was your response to this when you first heard about this, Ashley?

ETIENNE: And I should also note that some of those folks in that chain were elected officials. They weren't just random individuals within the Republican Party. They actually had leadership roles and were elected to office. I mean, I wasn't surprised. I don't know who's surprised that Republicans talk like this on the record and off the record. This is how they talk and it's part of their DNA. It's who they are from the top, all the way down to the bottom. J.D. Vance included in that.

So I'm not really surprised by this. I don't expect anyone on the Republican side to disavow any of the language. I mean, some at the lower level, but I don't expect anyone in leadership to do it because this is who they are and it's regrettable. You know, there was a time when I started on Capitol Hill when, you know, things like this would happen and you would have members of -- of a particular party that said this isn't who we are, and ask people to step down, either remove them from their -- their committee assignments, you know, not support their fundraisers. I mean, all kinds of actions they would take against them now.

[18:00:01]

But there's so much of the incentive in Congress has been flipped now. And -- and each of these individual members are -- or individual -- individual entities. So I just don't expect there to be an apology because this is who the Republican Party has proven to be now.

TAPPER: Congressman, what do you think about the fact that J.D. Vance refuses to -- to condemn this? He -- he constantly brings up those horrific text messages from the attention attorney general candidate, the Democratic attorney general candidate in Virginia, which obviously have been condemned and we've covered on this show. But I don't understand the idea of why it all can't just be condemned as horrific.

MEIJER: Yes, it should all be condemned as horrific. But I mean, J.D. Vance is making a great point that one are a bunch of random folks. Yes, there were some state legislators in the chat. The worst things were coming from, you know, staffers and not a single person in this group had I heard of. But most of those folks have already either been fired or resigned. Versus Jay Jones is sitting there running for office and not a single person has pulled their endorsement or support for him.

TAPPER: All right, Congressman, Ashley Etienne, thanks so much. Appreciate it.