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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Judge Halts Layoffs of Federal Workers During Shutdown; Labor Department Warns Trump Immigration Crackdown Could Put U.S. Food Supply at Risk; Hamas Says It Has Handed Over All Hostage Bodies It Can Access; Dad Charged with Killing Daughter's Accused Abuser Running for Sheriff; Woman Shot After Allegedly Ramming Agents Pleads Not Guilty; State Department Revokes Visas Over Comments on Charlie Kirk's Murder. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired October 15, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

ASHLEY ETIENNE, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR VP HARRIS: -- actions they would take against them now. But there's so much of the incentive in Congress has been flipped now. And in each of these individual members are individual entities. So, I just don't expect there to be an apology, because this is who the Republican Party has proven to be now.

(CROSSTALK)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Congressman, what do you think about the fact that J.D. Vance refuses to condemn this? He constantly brings up those horrific text messages from the attorney general candidate, the Democratic attorney general candidate in Virginia, which obviously have been condemned and we've covered on this show. But I don't understand the idea of why it all can't just be condemned as horrific.

PETER MEIJER, FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE, (R) MICHIGAN: Yeah, it should all be condemned as horrific, but I mean, J.D. Vance is making a great point that one or a bunch of random folks, yes, there were some state legislators in the chat, the worst things were coming from, you know, staffers and not a single person in this group had I heard of, but most of those folks have already either been fired or resigned, versus Jay Jones is sitting there running for office and not a single person has pulled their endorsement or support for him.

TAPPER: All right, Congressman Ashley Etienne, thanks so much, appreciate it.

Welcome to "The Lead." I'm Jake Tapper.

This hour today, a judge blocked President Trump from laying off any further federal workers during the shutdown, but what exactly does that mean for the employees in limbo. In moments, I'm going to talk to the head of the union representing more than 800,000 federal workers as they're all wondering when and if they're going to get paid or fired. Plus, a major case that could undercut the Voting Rights Act and have nationwide impacts going in front of the U.S. Supreme Court earlier today. What the justices comments are signaling about how they might rule and what that means for control of Congress.

And a father in Arkansas charged with murdering his teenage daughter's accused rapist. And now, as he's about to go on trial, he's also running for county sheriff and pledging to fix the system he says failed his child.

"The Lead" tonight, a federal judge is temporarily blocking the Trump administration from laying off thousands of federal workers during the government shutdown, calling the move unlawful. Today's order stems from a lawsuit filed by labor unions, including the American Federation of Government Employees.

This comes as the White House budget chief is warning layoffs will likely reach, quote, "north of 10,000." That's permanent layoffs, not just furloughs. The president of this American Federation of Government Employees Union, Everett Kelley, joins us now.

Everett, what is your reaction to the temporary block from this judge and do you think it will hold?

EVERETT KELLEY, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN FEDERATION OF GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES: Well, Jake, first of all, thank you for having me. And I am ecstatic. I think that the judge made the right call. The judge has declared that this is illegal, just as we have always said. It was illegal and we will continue to fight this if we have to. Do I think it will hold? I think that ultimately, in the end, you know, right will prevail because we're on the side of right. I think that it will.

TAPPER: What does this mean for the more than 3,500 workers who have already been permanently laid off? Will they get their jobs back?

KELLEY: Well, I think that what has happened, there was a rift notice sent out. The action hadn't been taken yet. So, I'm uncertain at this moment as to whether they're going to try to go through with those actions or let those actions lay in limbo until there was a final decision made here.

TAPPER: Earlier today, White House Budget Office head Russ Vought said layoffs are going to likely reach north of 10,000. That's permanent layoff he's talking about. What have you been hearing from federal workers who have already been impacted?

KELLEY: Well, federal workers is very upset. They're frustrated and they don't think that it should continue to be pawns in this game, you know, and so they want to come to work. They want to do their job and provide the services to the American people. That's what they want.

TAPPER: Yesterday, I spoke with Republican Senator Roger Marshall of Kansas about the permanent firings of government workers. Take a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. ROGER MARSHALL (R-KS): I value these people. I value the jobs that they're doing. I want to help them find another job. There's eight million open jobs across the country right now. But let's face it, the government has grown too big.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: He's saying the government's too big and these firings are necessary. What's your response?

KELLEY: I think he needs to come back to the force, right? I think he's AWOL. I'm a soldier and an AWOL person needs to come back and get the job done.

You know, this Congress needs to be here in Washington, D.C., working these issues out because the government is not too large. You know, matter of fact, if you look at some of the agencies, they have so much on the staff, you know, until they have been reaching out saying, look, give us the staff we need to perform the services for the American people. I don't believe that the government is too large.

[18:05:00]

I think that this administration needs to fund the government so that they can perform the duties that they have signed up to do for the American people.

TAPPER: Everett Kelley, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Let's turn now to Republican Senator Katie Britt from the state of Alabama. She's joining us now from Capitol Hill. Senator, what's your reaction to what Everett [Kelley] just had to say? The president of the American Federation of Government Employees about the firings of federal workers.

SEN. KATIE BRITT (R-AL): It is Chuck Schumer and the Senate Democrats who are utilizing the federal workforce as pawns. When you think about this, it is critically important that we focus right where we need to. And that is that this shutdown should not be occurring.

Jake, we have put forth a clean CR to allow us to continue to fund the government while we work out any issues, primarily among them actually getting appropriations bills across the finish line. Unfortunately, Chuck Schumer and his colleagues have chosen to play politics. And they've done that, obviously, with the lives of federal workers.

When we're looking around the country and when we're talking to constituencies, whether that's pay for military, whether that's making sure the WIC program continues, or, you know, whether that's the VA services, I had a call about this today. We want to make sure people are receiving their paychecks, that we want to make sure that people are receiving these services. And it is Senate Democrats and Chuck Schumer that have chosen to play politics.

TAPPER: OK, but you understand that while that's going on, while the shutdown is going on, and I understand you blame it on Democrats and I understand why, but the White House budget chief Russ Vought is taking advantage of the shutdown to fire federal workers permanently. And he says layoffs, permanent layoffs during the shutdown are going to likely reach, quote, "north of 10,000." Do you support that?

BRITT: Look, Jake, what I support is opening back up the government. I mean, we should absolutely, we can walk and chew gum at the same time. Senate Democrats have chosen that they were going to halt all government services because they wanted to hold us hostage for a $1.5 trillion deal, which was actually just for four weeks of funding.

I think you look at this, you've got to take a step back, Jake. We spend $1.8 trillion in a year total. And the fact that Senate Democrats came up and said we want $1.5 trillion for four weeks is absolutely ridiculous. We need to get back to doing the work of the American people and actually open the government. These are things that you heard from the administration prior to this. And look, it's on Chuck Schumer and it's on Senate Democrats to say, let's get back to doing work and let's have these conversations simultaneously with that.

TAPPER: Earlier this month, the Department of Labor filed a new rule in the Federal Register because of the crackdown on illegal immigration. And they say it's -- this crackdown has exacerbated labor shortages in agriculture, which I know affects your state a lot, making agriculture prices go up. It could put the U.S. food supply at risk. The new rule essentially would help out farmers by lowering the pay for seasonal migrants working in agriculture under the H-2A visa program. Are you at all concerned about this immigration, illegal immigration crackdown, affecting agricultural work in Alabama and across the country?

BRITT: Look, I know that there are no greater supporters of President Trump than our farmers. And I know the farmers are the best among us. You mentioned it earlier, but farming and agriculture is about 20% of our jobs in Alabama. One in five, one in four, depending on what you're looking at, are connected to that.

We know that if you can't feed and clothe yourself, nothing else matters. I know that President Trump knows that. He has that front and center. He's making sure that when you look at the tariff issue and making sure as we look to onshore and reshore our critical supply chain and drive-up American wages, that we're also making sure that our farmers get a fair shake.

Look, there have been markets that have been unopened to our agriculture community for decades. And President Trump is saying, no, they need a seat at the table. And our farmers need to be able to send their goods, send their services, send those products across the globe.

So, I think that there are a number of different things here at play. And I know -- but what I do know is that front and center are making sure that we can feed and clothe not just America, but people across the globe. And President Trump's going to make sure that that's a reality. And so, Jake, you'll see a number of different tools being used and a number of different conversations happening to make sure that our agriculture community has what it needs to continue to do just that.

TAPPER: I'm sure I don't need to tell you that soybean farmers in the United States are struggling largely in part because of the trade war with China. China used to be the main purchaser of U.S. soybeans, and now they're getting them from other places such as Argentina because of the high tariffs. Argentina is a country that President Trump is trying to give a $20 billion bailout to.

What do you say to the struggling soybean farmers in Alabama who want free trade and don't want the U.S. to be helping its competitors in Argentina?

BRITT: Look, I think President Trump has our agriculture communities back. He understands the grit that our family farmers put in every single day, and they want certainty. He's going to make sure that he creates a space for them in markets across the globe, and he's going to make sure that they can continue to do what they're doing best.

[18:10:13]

Look, for years, we've seen Joe Biden turn a blind eye to our agriculture community. I remember at the end of last year, no one else would hit harder by Joe Biden and his policies than our ag community. When you think about input costs, they were absolutely through the roof. Whether it was fertilizer, whether it was workforce issues, you know, whether it was mechanics, whether -- no matter what it was, they were actually paying the price.

When you look at all of that and you look at the fact that they did not pass a farm bill, Jake, under President Biden's last administration, when Chuck Schumer was the lead of the Senate, we pass a farm bill every five years. Chuck Schumer failed to bring that to the floor. So, we had farmers that were having to deal with reference prices that were from 2012 research that had been instituted in 27, 2018 and had never been changed.

So, while their input costs were through the roof, Jake, they had actually been capped at what they can make. President Trump in the one big beautiful bill said, we see you and we are going to make sure that we change this. So, things that they had been waiting for, for what seemed to be years, actually came into fruition there in the one big beautiful bill.

So, as that continues to move forward and they're actually able to take advantage of the things in that bill, that's going to be a game changer. President Trump is looking to open up new markets for them. We have a lot of things that we have moving to make sure that our agriculture community has what it needs to feed and clothe America, because we know that food security is national security.

So, I would say to them, President Trump is on it. He knows how important and critical you are, not just to the United States, but to the globe. And he's going to make sure that you have the respect and ability to continue to do what you do best.

TAPPER: Republican Senator Katie Britt of Alabama, thank you so much. Really appreciate it.

BRITT: Thanks, Jake.

TAPPER: And don't miss a live CNN Town Hall event tonight. Independent Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont, Democratic Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York are going to join my colleague, CNN's Kaitlan Collins, to discuss the path forward and take audience questions. It's "Shut Down America: CNN Town Hall," live tonight at 9 Eastern.

New videos show the moments after some of the freed living Israeli hostages were reunited with their families, but the terrorist group Hamas has only handed over about a third of the remaining deceased hostages. So, is the ceasefire deal on thin ice? That's next.

Plus, we're going live to Chicago after the Trump administration claimed that Mexican cartels are trying to target federal agents on the ground in the Windy City. Stick with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:16:54]

TAPPER: And we're back with our World Lead, a stress test for the Israel-Hamas ceasefire. Today, Hamas returned two more bodies of killed hostages to Israel. Only nine have been returned in total. And there are no more to hand over, according to the terrorist group. They claim they're going to need special equipment to access any of the rest.

Remember, under the ceasefire agreement that Hamas agreed to, Hamas had 72 hours after Israel agreed to the terms of the agreement to return, quote, "all hostages, alive and deceased." That window, of course, has long since passed.

Today, a top White House adviser insisted that no one is going to be left behind, adding that they did not feel that Hamas has violated the terms of the ceasefire. The ceasefire plan also states, quote, "Hamas members who commit to peaceful coexistence and to decommission their weapons will be given amnesty."

Also today, CNN Geo located a video that appears to have taken place in Gaza City in the past few days, showing masked men in Hamas headbands executing eight blindfolded people in a public square.

Joining us now to discuss the latest in Gaza, David Miliband, former British Foreign Secretary, current President and CEO of the International Rescue Committee, or IRC.

Sir, how are you? What is the IRC staff telling you about conditions on the ground in Gaza right now? Is Hamas fully back in power?

DAVID MILIBAND, INTERNATIONAL RESCUE COMMITTEE PRESIDENT AND CEO: Good evening, Jake. The team that we have on the ground, 50 to 60 strong, Gazan themselves, many of them displaced by the conflict, are reporting that Monday was a good day. Aid flowed. That's critical medical aid, nutritional supplies, food, and also commercial traffic was strong on Monday. The last two days, much more difficult. 300,000 people have returned to their homes in Gaza City, including some of our staff, finding their homes are no longer there.

And more significant, perhaps, the restrictions on aid that have been imposed over the last 36 hours or so are putting a chill in the hopes that were established on Monday. In terms of the situation on the ground, it's not right to say that the whole of the Gaza Strip has been taken over or retaken over by Hamas. It's obviously a much more divided sector.

And so what we're looking for is for a continuation of the flow of humanitarian aid and commercial traffic that was started on Monday. Because it's critical that the overwhelming needs of civilians who are currently being forced to pay the price of the war, it's critical that their situation is addressed.

TAPPER: So, the U.N. says that Israel notified them that the reason that the aid is being reduced, that's allowed into Gaza, is because Hamas has not returned all hostage remains as they agreed to do so. Today, new satellite images show trucks lined up at the Gaza-Egypt border. Obviously, you disagree with Israel's actions, but couldn't Hamas just end this by turning over the remaining deceased hostages?

MILIBAND: Of course, this is not about who we agree with or disagree. This is about the conditions on the ground. 170,000 tons worth of medical supplies and food are waiting to be allowed in.

[18:20:08]

There is a U.N. plan, which has been coordinated across all the non- governmental organizations, all the humanitarian aid organizations that include us, to ensure that we get the priorities right, that water and sanitation is restored, that food is brought to those who need it, that medical supplies are distributed, and that those who are sick are tended to.

What we know is that there's nothing in the agreement that says civilians should be -- should pay the price of a dispute about who is or is not following the terms of the agreement. And as you rightly quoted the White House saying, it's not clear in the agreement that the age should be what's suspended when there is a dispute of the kind that you've described.

TAPPER: So, I asked President Trump today what he will do if Hamas doesn't disarm, which is what's called for in point six of the 20- point plan. The president told me in a brief phone conversation, quote, "Israel will return to those streets as soon as I say the word. If Israel could go in and knock the crap out of Hamas, they'd do that."

Basically saying that if Hamas doesn't follow through, the IDF will resume its military campaign. How likely do you think it is that this whole war restarts? And what might that mean for Palestinians, the innocent Palestinians in Gaza? MILIBAND: Yeah, well, obviously our overwhelming desire is that every party to the conflict fulfills every single one of the 20 points that are in President Trump's plan. The situation on the ground is beyond dire. It's impossible to overstate the degree of destruction and distress that exists in Gaza at the moment.

The flickering of hope after the ceasefire announcement, after the arrival of some humanitarian aid on Monday needs to be nurtured. If I had time with President Trump, I'd be begging him, let's make sure that it's not the civilians of Gaza who pay the price again for a dispute about the implementation of this. Let's make sure that your plan is fully implemented and that there's absolute attention to every detail of that.

TAPPER: Former British Foreign Secretary David Miliband now with IRC. Thank you so much, sir. It's always good to have you.

MILIBAND: Thanks for having me on.

TAPPER: Up next, how a father charged with killing his daughter's alleged rapist could soon become a sheriff.

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[18:26:41]

TAPPER: In our politics lead, meet Aaron Spencer. Aaron Spencer faces a second-degree murder charge in last October's fatal shooting of a man who had been accused of sexually assaulting Aaron Spencer's then 13-year-old daughter. But now Aaron Spencer is running for sheriff at this county.

CNN's Brynn Gingras takes us now inside his campaign to, in his words, restore trust in law enforcement.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AARON SPENCER, CHARGED WITH KILLING HIS DAUGHTER'S ALLEGED ABUSER: I'm the father who acted to protect his daughter when the system failed.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron Spencer is charged with murdering his 13-year-old daughter's accused abuser. Spencer pleaded not guilty. He's out on bail and about to go on trial for the crime while also running for county sheriff.

SPENCER: Through my own fight for justice, I have seen firsthand the failures in law enforcement and in our circuit court, and I refuse to stand by.

GINGRAS: Spencer is hoping to unseat the incumbent sheriff of Lonoke County, Arkansas.

JOHN STALEY: I'm John Staley, your Lonoke County sheriff.

GINGRAS (voice-over): The same man who was in office when authorities arrested Spencer last October for shooting 67-year-old Michael Fosler. At the time of the murder, Fosler was out on bond, already charged with 43 criminal counts of sex-related crimes against Spencer's daughter. Spencer's wife, Heather, says the family woke one night to find their daughter missing.

"In that moment, we realized that she may have been taken, but it's the middle of the night and everything is happening in seconds, and every second counts," she wrote on social media.

Despite Fosler having a no-contact order, court documents show Spencer found the two inside Fosler's truck. Spencer forced Fosler's truck off the highway. After an altercation, Spencer called 911 to report that he had shot Fosler.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We feel very confident that this community is going to come to Aaron's side.

GINGRAS: An online petition has already collected more than 350,000 signatures with supporters urging the second-degree murder charge to be dropped, many calling Spencer a hero.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Every one of them would have done the same thing for their child or their neighbor's child or a member of their family.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GINGRAS: Yeah, a lot of reaction to this story, Jake. We're going to have to see how this all plays out.

Now, Spencer's trial begins in January. The primary for that sheriff's race is in March, with the general election, of course, being in November. If he does, you know, is convicted of this crime, of course, he can't continue to campaign or run for election. So, again, we'll have to see how this all plays out. Jake.

TAPPER: Fascinating story. Brynn Gingras, thanks so much, appreciate it.

The Trump administration is confirming that it has revoked the visas of multiple foreigners that the administration claims celebrated the murder of conservative activist Charlie Kirk. And that's next.

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[18:33:19]

TAPPER: In our law and justice lead, a woman shot by a federal agent after allegedly ramming a law enforcement vehicle with her car near Chicago. Well, this woman was back in court today. Marimar Martinez appeared for an arraignment on the charge of assaulting federal officers. Her lawyer says body cam video can prove that she did not do it.

CNN's Omar Jimenez is in Broadview, Illinois, outside the ICE facility that's been the epicenter of tension in the Chicago area related to the Trump administration's crackdown on illegal immigration. Omar, what happened in court today? OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, so for starters, she pleaded not guilty to essentially the government had accused her of impeding and assaulting law enforcement officers here, federal law enforcement officers. And one of the main disputes just talking to her defense attorney is whether she actually did ram this vehicle. The defense attorney is claiming that he has seen body camera video that shows an agent turning the steering wheel to the left when she is next to the -- when she would have been right next to the federal vehicle just before the impact.

We have not seen the body camera video as it's still under court seal, but that is what the defense attorney has claimed to this point. And then on top of that, as, you know, we sort of look at what happened afterward is after the impact was when an agent got out and the government claims defensively he fired his rounds at Martinez hitting her five times when the defense attorney says that this was unnecessary. This constituted essentially up to a minor traffic accident at the end of the day and not this big ramming incident, as has been alleged to this point.

[18:35:00]

So, that's what will be fought over in court, obviously. But today was that first step of essentially saying not guilty and fighting the charges that way.

TAPPER: Omar, the Department of Homeland Security is making a remarkable claim about what they say is happening in Chicago. They're alleging that Mexican cartels are working with what DHS calls domestic extremist groups to target federal agents. Is there evidence of this? Tell us more.

JIMENEZ: Well, they are citing, quote, "credible evidence." That is what they are using. Claiming criminal networks have issued explicit instructions to those sympathetic to that cause against ICE agents to carry out violence against folks.

Now, what that specific evidence is, we have not seen. You know, there is a case on the books of a man accused of being a Latin Kings member who allegedly put out a bounty on Gregory Bovino's life. The -- the commander and leader in Customs and Border Protection.

Sorry, the folks beeping are beeping in support, I guess, against ICE. So, that's what you might be hearing here. But again, as to what specifically they're talking about in their release, we don't quite know.

One dynamic, though, to keep in mind is to this point, we have seen a slight difference between what DHS puts out in press releases and what actually makes it into court. In the Martinez case, for example, the initial press release talked about her being armed with a semiautomatic weapon before being shot. Well, her attorney says that one, she's a concealed carry license holder and that the weapon was never accessed, still in a holster underneath a strap there.

But also that claim, even though it was in the press release, never actually made it into the indictment. So, we're still looking for more details on what DHS is putting out today.

TAPPER: Yeah, it's not against the law to lie in a press release. It is against the law to lie in court. Omar Jimenez in Broadview, Illinois, thank you so much.

Turning to our politics lead right now, the State Department says it has revoked at least six visas from people from Argentina, South Africa, Mexico, Brazil, Germany and Paraguay, claiming that these individuals celebrated the murder of Charlie Kirk. Here are a few of the alleged comments.

The State Department says an Argentinian national said that Kirk, quote, "devoted his entire life spreading racist, xenophobic, misogynistic rhetoric. It's hot as F where this man currently is and it's deserved," unquote.

The State Department also says that a Paraguayan national said, quote, "Charlie Kirk was a son of a B and he died by his own rules," unquote.

Conor Fitzpatrick's an attorney at the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression, a free speech group. Conor, thanks for joining us. So, the U.S. State Department also says that it continues to identify visa holders who they say celebrated Kirk's murder. Are you allowed to kick people out of the country for saying offensive things that are covered under free speech?

CONOR FITZPATRICK, SUPERVISING SENIOR ATTORNEY, FOUNDATION FOR INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS AND EXPRESSION: No. And the Supreme Court was clear about this 80 years ago in a case called Bridges v. Wixon, where it held that noncitizens are entitled to freedom of speech. So, the idea that the government can just throw everyone out of the country that expresses an opinion they disagree with, it is not only wrong, but it betrays America's commitment to freedom of speech.

TAPPER: Are foreign visas predicated in any way on the users not saying anything that could offend people, that it could express delight in murder, that sort of thing?

FITZPATRICK: Absolutely not. The reason that so many come to our country, especially to our colleges and universities, is because we respect freedom of speech and freedom of the press, and that you shouldn't have to fear a midnight knock on the door from a government official because you expressed a view that the government doesn't like. So, what this administration is telling noncitizens is very scary.

What it's saying is that you better watch what you say, because if the Secretary of State or someone in the Trump administration doesn't like it, we might put you on the next plane out of the United States. And that is no way to respect free speech.

TAPPER: Can these foreigners who have their visas revoked, can they take any legal action? Do they have any legal standing to be in the United States?

FITZPATRICK: So, if the State Department and the Department of Homeland Security attempt to remove them from the country, and it sounds like there's already been a visa revocation, there are avenues in the courts and the immigration courts that they can pursue where they can make constitutional arguments. But that can be a very long, arduous, and expensive process, and something that these folks should simply not have to deal with because they made a joke on social media that the government doesn't like.

TAPPER: I don't know if they were jokes, but they certainly were speech that the government didn't like. I'm looking at the list of countries here. Argentina, South Africa, Mexico, Brazil, Germany, Paraguay. I'm having a difficult time imagining any of these countries taking this up with President Trump or retaliating in any way against the United States. What do you think?

[18:40:10]

FITZPATRICK: Well, of course, the irony in all of this, Jake, is that the Trump administration early on lectured our European allies like Germany on the issue of free speech. And has lectured countries like Sweden and the United Kingdom about how they don't respect free speech.

But here on our shores, domestically, they are betraying our commitment to free speech by excluding and deporting foreigners who express views that they don't like. They talk the talk when it comes to free speech, but they don't walk the walk.

TAPPER: Conor Fitzpatrick, thanks so much. Appreciate your time.

A major challenge to the Voting Rights Act in front of the U.S. Supreme Court today. CNN's Chief Supreme Court Analyst was inside the high court for today's arguments and is breaking down every detail of what happened. That's next.

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TAPPER: In our Law and Justice Lead, we're now seeing the greatest challenge in more than a decade to the 1965 Voting Rights Act, which bans racial discrimination in voting. Today, the justices heard a case that centers on Louisiana's congressional maps, specifically the state's 6th congressional district, which even Chief Justice John Roberts once described as a snake.

[18:45:10]

The district stretches from one end of the state to the other, trying to connect mostly black populations who traditionally vote for Democrats.

Let's bring Joan Biskupic, CNN's chief Supreme Court analyst.

And, Joan, you were in court for arguments today and picked up on Justice Brett Kavanaugh, who appeared to be trying to send a message with his line of questioning.

Tell us more. JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN CHIEF SUPREME COURT ANALYST: Sure. And you're

right. This is a huge battle because of all the redistricting fights that are going on across the country, both on racial lines and also partizan lines. And you know, that district you showed jake was created only after lower court judges found that the map that Louisiana had used had so diluted the votes of blacks in the state who have a one third population. And that they had only gotten one of the six districts, that was, they were forced to draw a second black majority district, and that's what they drew. The state legislature that drew it had taken into consideration incumbent protection also.

But what Brett Kavanaugh said, you know, looking at that district and looking at race based remedies, is that this courts cases in a variety of contexts have said that race-based remedies are permissible for a period of time, sometimes a long period of time, decades in some cases. But they should not be indefinite and should have an end point.

Now, Jake, he was referring to the context of school integration plans and campus affirmative action. But here these kinds of districts, when they're created, majority black districts, are responding to a violation of the Voting Rights Act in present time, where they've been found to be vote dilution of Black or Hispanic voters.

So, he was raising a concern that the liberal justices and the lawyer from the NAACP legal defense fund really tried to push down. I don't think they're going to curtail all race based remedies here, but were just as Kavanaugh also had an issue is when lower court judges can actually declare vote dilution and then when a remedy would kick in. So, there are a couple of different ways that the justices could go and a couple of different offramps.

Justice Brett Kavanaugh was the key vote in Alabama case two years ago, Brett -- two years ago, Brett Kavanaugh was the key vote. Jake, when they allowed the Voting Rights Act to stand in that Alabama case, and he might be the person who either tips it over, over to end it or preserves it in some way this time -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Joan Biskupic, thanks so much.

Let's bring in my political panel. Congressman Peter Meijer, still with us. Also with us, Elliot Williams.

Elliot, what do you make of Justice Kavanaugh's positioning here and his apparent skepticism when it comes to this case?

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Right. He's expressed skepticism about using race in matters like voting for quite some time. And I think it's fair on paper, certainly, we aspire to be a race-neutral country. But as Joan had sort of talked about, we are still talking about the vestiges of how the country was founded, quite frankly, and how we vote today.

Jake, if you look at a map of, frankly, where black people are in Louisiana on up to North Carolina, it basically tracks where cotton and tobacco were grown and where how districts are formed, you know, over time, they've been carved up to dilute the strength of black people even today.

And so, there's probably some remedy that's still under the law needs to needs, needs to, to exist. And I guess it's just up to the court to struggle to figure out what that might be.

TAPPER: So, Congressman, in 2017, during Trump's first term, Democrats retook the house in a sweep. But with all of the redistricting going on, all of the mid-decade redistricting, the gains that Republicans will be able to make could make that kind of Democratic conquering or retaking of the House impossible, theoretically. What do you make of the politics here?

PETER MEIJER (R), FORMER U.S. CONGRESSMAN: Yeah. I mean, every state is going to be different when we're looking at it from redistricting standpoint. But obviously the states that are a little bit closer where you're trying to carve districts, that may be, you know, go from a Republican plus ten average to a Republican plus two, you know, because you're breaking down a Democratic district that kind of cracking and packing, that can lead to actually some pretty wild swings because if the wave goes in the opposite direction, you know, now you have lost that margin of safety from a partisan standpoint.

In my home state of Michigan in 2010, there was Republican redistricting. You know, that led to a map that, you know, we had a I think it was a net for Republicans within the congressional seat by the end of the decade. Post that 2018 wave, there were more Democrats than Republicans serving in the delegation.

So that can easily turn back the other direction. You know, if there is a partisan backlash.

TAPPER: A Florida judge issued a restraining order against Republican Congressman Cory Mills of Florida. He faces allegations that he threatened to release sexually explicit images and videos of an ex- girlfriend after their breakup.

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The speaker of the House was asked about this today. Here is what Speaker Johnson had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: You have to ask Representative Mills about that. I mean, he's been a faithful colleague here. I know his work on the Hill. I mean, I don't -- I don't know all the details of all the individual allegations and what he's doing in his outside life. You have to ask him about that.

Let's talk about things that are really serious.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Let's talk about things that are really serious. Congressman Meijer, what did you think of that? MEIJER: Well, I watched that clip earlier before he has that -- that

lead in. He's mentioning the fact that, you know, this is up to the Ethics Committee. This is something that the ethics committee and congress should be looking at. The restraining orders, the first kind of tangible thing among all the salacious details have been floating out in the media about Cory Mills.

You know, the law enforcement investigations kind of didn't go anywhere. So, you know, I think Speaker Johnson is absolutely correct in saying, hey, this is something that should be the purview of the House Ethics Committee to look at, to see if there's any violations, if there's any, you know, potential penalties or recourses, you know, from a House standpoint.

TAPPER: Yeah. Just for the record, we haven't mentioned Cory Mills incident here, until the restraining order for the reasons that you just suggested.

Elliot, does legal action ever automatically warrant an ethics investigation in the House or any type of punitive action in Congress?

WILLIAMS: No. Not necessarily. And as Congressman Meijer knows, you know, the house is free to police anybody. It wishes if there is some serious allegation, I think you do have that here at a minimum, the allegations themselves are quite damning. And you have a judge saying that there was at least the preponderance of the evidence, that it's more likely than not that some of these things happened.

So, certainly, you know, the House polices itself and polices its own members, and it's up to them to decide what kinds of conduct they find impermissible. This really ought to be the kind of thing you can't go to jail for it. It's not a conviction, but certainly the kind of thing that ought to have some at least questions asked by colleagues.

TAPPER: Today, journalists at the Pentagon handed in their press credentials as Secretary Hegseth's new policy not allowing press access unless you agree with the notion that you can only report that which the Pentagon has signed off on, even non-classified matters.

And CNN, along with the networks, NBC, ABC, CBS and more conservative media, Fox, "The Daily Caller", Newsmax, all declining to comply with this policy, which, frankly, is just anti-journalism.

Elliot, free speech advocates say that this policy infringes on the First Amendment. Is there any sort of legal case here?

WILLIAMS: No, I don't think so. You know, certainly, the -- look, the Defense Department can restrict or maybe restrict is not the right word, put limit parameters around the access that people have, but, you know, not to get too lofty, Jake, but this is, you know, the Defense Department, our armed services fight for the right to write critically about organizations like the United States Department of Defense. And it is sort of silly to be restricting access of reporters in the way that they can.

Now, look, reporters aren't allowed to be anywhere, any -- at all times. However, you know, they ought to be able to do their jobs freely. And so, I think it would be an uphill climb for the Defense Department to credibly say that they, you know, they're legally entitled to prevent people from reporters from having access to their sources.

TAPPER: Congressman Meijer, I'm just trying to think about how then Fox News weekend co-host Hegseth would have responded if Biden's secretary of defense, Lloyd Austin, had instituted such a policy.

MEIJER: Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, this is not going to have any real bearing on journalism. I mean, if anything, I think the DOD is making it harder for them to get their message out because they're not having those journalists be in those briefing rooms where the Department of War's line is getting propagated, right?

If anything, it's going to push the conversations to the sidelines. It's going to push that towards the leakers and not have that same level of access towards kind of the official sanctioned Department of War staff.

TAPPER: All right. Congressman Meijer, good to see you. Elliot Williams, thank you so much.

Speaking of the secretary of defense, Pete Hegseth, or secretary of war, as he likes to be called, his plane had to make an unscheduled landing today. That story next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:58:43]

TAPPER: Our last late start in our health lead. South Carolina is reporting five new cases of measles as part of an outbreak in two schools. This comes after more than 150 unvaccinated children had to quarantine in Spartanburg County outside Greenville, South Carolina. The health department says these new cases are in people who were already quarantining.

In our national lead, newly released dash cam video shows the moments leading up to a tragic crash in August that killed South Carolina trooper Dennis Ricks. Ricks is seen at two in the morning approaching a motorist who admits to watching a TV show while driving. A minute later, the man behind the wheel of a box truck hits Ricks, who was wearing a reflective vest. The driver of the box truck remains behind bars.

In our world lead, Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth's plane made an unscheduled landing in the United Kingdom today due to a crack in the plane's windshield. The Pentagon says everyone on board is safe. Hegseth was returning to D.C. after a meeting of NATO defense ministers in Brussels.

In our law and justice lead, a Florida judge has temporarily blocked the planned transfer of land in Miami for President Trump's future presidential library. This ruling comes after an activist claimed a local college violated the law when it gifted the land to the state, which then transferred it to the foundation for the planned library.

You can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, Threads, Bluesky, X, and on the TikTok @jaketapper. You can follow the show on X @TheLeadCNN.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now. Take it away, Erin.

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