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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Ex-Trump National Security Adviser John Bolton Indicted; Trump Says He'll Meet With Putin in Budapest in Two Weeks or So; Arizona A.G. Threatens to Sue Speaker for Delaying Grijalva Swearing-in. Now: Virginia Attorney General Candidates Debate After Violent Texts Resurface. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired October 16, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.

And we are following major breaking news tonight. President Trump's former national security adviser turned adversary, John Bolton, has been indicted by a federal grand jury in Maryland. Bolton is charged with 18 counts of retaining and sharing classified information. According to the indictment, he shared, quote, more than a thousand pages of diary-like entries during his time working for Trump as national security adviser, including information that was classified as secret, top secret, the indictment says.

Bolton would be, of course, the third high profile political adversary of President Trump's to be indicted in just the last three weeks.

Let's get right to CNN's Katelyn Polantz. So, Katelyn, you're learning more about these charges and the judge who has been assigned to the case.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jake. The judge, Judge Ted Schwang, he is a federal judge in Maryland, he's appointed by President Barack Obama, and he is someone who has had to handle a couple very high-profile cases already in the Trump administration, and he has not sided with Donald Trump, at least in the opinions that I've read from him.

But let's get to this case specifically, Jake. There's a simple story that is told over many pages here describing very in detail what John Bolton was doing in the time, in the one year approximately, where he was the national security adviser for Donald Trump, throughout his day when he was traveling, when he was in the White House, he's writing down what's happening on yellow notepads. And then he rewrites what's on those notepads into what he calls diaries, sending them to himself, sending them to family members, according to the prosecutors.

And, ultimately, that information contains classified details. The prosecutors in the indictments say that, at times, Bolton was very specific about what his descriptions were. He's talking about a military briefing and writes, while in the Situation Room, I learned, dot, dot, dot. Some of the things in these documents, those 18 counts, essentially correspond to individual pieces of information that would be top secret, classified or individual documents. Those 18 counts reveal things like information about foreign leaders, intelligence to the U.S. was collecting about foreign attacks. One was revealing intelligence where a foreign country was considering specific force against another country, so really high level stuff there that the prosecutors say John Bolton should have known that he shouldn't have kept even to himself on an unsecured place, giving it to family members or on an AOL account, a Google account, or other messaging platforms.

But here's the statement from his attorney. This is Abbe Lowell, Jake. Abbe Lowell, John Bolton's attorney, writes, the underlying facts in this case were investigated and resolved years ago. These charges stem from portions of Ambassador Bolton's personal diaries over his 45-year career, records that are unclassified, shared only with his immediate family and known to the FBI as far back as 2021.

Like many public officials throughout history, ambassador Bolton kept diaries. That is not a crime. We look forward to proving once again that Ambassador Bolton did not unlawfully share or store any information.

We first, though, before we get to the meat of this case, are very likely to see him in court for an initial presentation as soon as tomorrow.

TAPPER: Katelyn Polantz, thanks so much.

CNN's Kaitlan Collins is standing by at the White House. Kaitlan, how is President Trump reacting to the news of the Bolton indictment?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, he is not exactly surprised, Jake. This has obviously been something that the president and has advocated for. I mean, remember he went to war with John Bolton when he was writing his book initially as when Trump was in the White House the last time. They were trying desperately to block it from being published, given they did not expect it to be a flattering version of his time working with President Trump. He had become quite critical of him during that period, after he left the White House.

And actually moments after John Bolton was indicted, after we had learned that, yes, these 18 counts had happened earlier today, as Katelyn was noting there, Kristen Holmes, my colleague, was actually in the Oval Office with President Trump and asked for his initial reaction to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I didn't know that you tell me for the first time, but I think he's, you know, a bad person. I think he's a bad guy. Yes, he's a bad guy. It's too bad, but it's the way it goes.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Do you have a case against him?

TRUMP: That's the way it goes, right? [18:05:00]

That's the way it goes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Now, Jake, obviously we'll see how John Bolton's defense team handles this, what the former national security adviser himself says. Obviously, this is a huge turn in the relationship that once went from, you know, when Trump was in office the first time, we used to see John Bolton walking down this driveway behind me, which is how we got an indication that he was getting that job as the national security adviser, and obviously it completely deteriorated after that. He became a huge critic of Donald Trump's. He did not vote for him in the election this year, and obviously not surprisingly there, given his criticisms of Trump's time in office. And this was something that the president has railed against.

But I do think one question that has to be raised, Jake, as we note all of the president's political opponents that have been indicted here is we've spoken to people who believe maybe there is more strength to this case than the ones we've seen against people like the former FBI director or the attorney general for New York, given the emails and the information that they have their hands on.

We don't know, Jake. Obviously, we'll wait to see how that plays out when John Bolton appears tomorrow and certainly expect them to mount a robust defense here. But, certainly, the president here is pleased to see something like this happen today. Jake?

TAPPER: All right. CNN's Kaitlan Collins at the White House for us, thanks so much.

Don't miss Kaitlan on her show, The Source with Kaitlan Collins. Tonight, Kaitlan's going to interview the president's son, Eric Trump. That's tonight at 9:00 Eastern only on CNN.

Let's bring in CNN's Senior Legal Analyst Elie Honig. Now that we've seen this indictment, how serious do these charges seem to you?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Jake, if prosecutors can prove these charges, that's always the big if, then John Bolton's conduct, to me, is more serious, certainly than we saw in the investigations of Hillary Clinton, of Mike Pence, of Joe Biden, and even more serious than the conduct that got Donald Trump indicted.

Let me tell you why. First of all, John Bolton didn't just mishandle this information. He didn't just keep it in a box, in a garage, or even scattered around a resort. He actively disseminated it to two people, according to the indictment, to family members, who were outsiders, who had no security clearance over AOL, which by the way was hacked.

Second of all, we are talking about the highest level of security. The indictment talks about information relating to military attack plans, to missile launches, to foreign leaders, to sensitive sources and methods. And third of all, Bolton's team was not exactly forthcoming about this. There came a point where they learned his email had been hacked by Iran. They notified the FBI, but they omitted the fact that John Bolton was using that account to communicate with these outsiders. So, I think if DOJ can prove this, this is big, big trouble for John Bolton.

TAPPER: When President Trump was indicted on federal charges relating to mishandling classified documents in 2022, Bolton said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BOLTON, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: In most offices, you would have a very clear segregation of the sensitive classified material locked in safes, handled very carefully, versus all the unclassified material. This, to me, is more evidence that Donald Trump didn't give much attention to the sensitivity of the classified information.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: The indictment contains numerous comments like that by Bolton about other people, including, I believe, although the indictment doesn't mention them, it says like public official one, public official two, but I believe Hillary Clinton and Pete Hegseth are also criticized. How relevant is that? Why are the prosecutors including those statements in the indictment?

HONIG: So, that's absolutely legally relevant. That's not just intended to rub it in Bolton's face or to show that he's a hypocrite. That's intended to show his criminal intent. Because when you have charges like this relating to mishandling or disseminating sensitive classified information, prosecutors have to prove that he acted willfully, meaning he knew he did it, it wasn't just by accident, and also that he knew it was illegal. And those statements by John Bolton make out a very clear case that he of all people understood how sensitive this information was and what the law required. So, that's going to be an absolutely relevant part of the prosecution's case here.

TAPPER: So, obviously, in just the last three weeks we've seen a number of Trump opponents, Trump critics indicted. We saw the New York attorney general, Letitia James, with alleged fraud having to do with mortgage. We saw the same thing happen to James Comey, the former FBI director, when it comes to statements he made to Congress that prosecutors allege were false. Do you see this indictment in the same frame, another Trump opponent indicted?

HONIG: I don't, Jake. I see this as different. There's no question. There's longstanding bad blood both ways between Donald Trump and John Bolton. John Bolton also will be able to make a motion to dismiss based on selective or vindictive prosecution. But I see a couple distinguishing factors. One, Donald Trump -- in contrast to Letitia James and Jim Comey, Donald Trump did not take to social media and explicitly order the attorney general to indict them. Bolton was not part of that social media post.

[18:10:00]

But more importantly, Jake, the reporting is, and the indictment seems to reflect, this investigation predates the current Trump administration. And if that's the case, if it goes back to the prior Biden administration, I think that's really going to undermine any malicious prosecution claim that John Bolton has.

Also, I should add, the charges here against John Bolton are vastly more serious than the charges that have been made against Jim Comey and Letitia James. So, I see this as separate and apart from those.

TAPPER: But his attorney, Abbe Lowell, says this was already known to the FBI in 2021, and this had already basically been litigated. You don't think that that's true?

HONIG: Yes, I'm not sure where Abbe is basing that. I mean, look, in 2021, if Abby Lowell is referring to the incident where. John Bolton's emails got hacked by Iran and Bolton's team then contacted the FBI and told them about it, fine. But what he's leaving out of it is that they did not tell the FBI the key details, which was that John Bolton had long been writing down pages upon pages of sensitive information and then emailing it over AOL to these two outsiders. That's what really makes this indictment important. And if they left that out, when they contacted the FBI, then, no, that was not properly resolved.

TAPPER: All right. Elie Honig, thanks so much. I appreciate your insights.

Much more on our breaking news ahead, President Trump's former national security adviser, Ambassador John Bolton, indicted by a federal grand jury in Greenbelt, Maryland, this afternoon.

Plus, President Trump tonight teasing another possible sit-down with Russian president Vladimir Putin, this time it would be in Budapest, Hungary, just two months after Putin and Trump met in Anchorage, Alaska. How soon could this visit happen? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:15:00]

TAPPER: We have breaking news for you and our World Lead. President Trump just said that he's going to meet with Russian Leader Vladimir Putin in Hungary in the next couple weeks after a marathon two-and-a half-hour call with Putin earlier today. This comes less than two months after that ultimately fruitless summit in Anchorage, Alaska.

After that meeting, sources tell CNN Trump changed his mind and ramped up U.S. intelligence sharing with Ukraine. Trump also recently floated the idea of arming Ukraine with long range Tomahawk missiles. Tomorrow, President Trump meets with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, who just touched down in Washington, D.C.

CNN's Matthew Chance's live for us in Moscow. And, Matthew, what did Kremlin officials say about this call, specifically when it comes to the Tomahawk missiles Zelenskyy wants? MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Oh, well, they were very positive, Jake, about the call. They said it was constructive. They said it was positive. They said it was in an atmosphere of trust, I think is the phrase that was used in one of the Kremlin readouts that I saw.

In terms of the Tomahawks, well, look, I mean, first of all, the timing of this, you can't ignore it. I mean, the fact that this call was initiated by the Russian side, by the Kremlin, they called the White House, in other words, on the eve of that meeting between President Trump and President Zelenskyy where they were due to talk about and still are due to talk about the merits of giving Ukraine these long-range powerful Tomahawk missiles. That would've played in very strongly into the calculus of the Kremlin to make this call right now, to try and get in Trump's ear before he sits in the Oval Office, or wherever he is going to meet President Zelenskyy.

Putin told Trump what he's been saying publicly for some time, which is that these missiles, these Tomahawks, even though they've got a long range of more than 1,500 miles, even though they could potentially target Moscow and St. Petersburg, major Russian cities, they could help Ukraine target energy infrastructure locations around the country, at least in the new European part of Russia. Trump -- sorry, Putin saying he does not believe that these will have a significant impact on the battlefield.

What he does say and what he stressed to Trump, according to the Kremlin readout, is that these would be considered escalatory and they would damage the relationship between the United States and Russia. And that's something obviously that President Trump apparently cares very deeply about.

TAPPER: Tell me what you think the significance is of Budapest, Hungary, being the potential meeting place for this second proposed Trump-Putin summit.

CHANCE: Yes, it's an interesting choice and probably, obviously very carefully chosen. According to the Kremlin readout, again, a Budapest was suggested by President Trump initially, and President Putin immediately agreed. And there's a couple of reasons for that. One of them is that Viktor Orban, who is the leader of Hungary, is seen as a very right wing figure. He's very close to the MAGA movement, close to President Trump. He's also seen as relatively sort of pro-Putin. So, he is not one of the big critics of Russia and its war in Ukraine inside the European Union. It is a European Union country.

But, interestingly, Budapest or Hungary, rather, recently started the process of withdrawing from the International Criminal Court, which means it wouldn't be necessary for it to arrest Vladimir Putin if and when he arrives in Budapest for that summit. They started that withdrawal so they could host Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel. The fact is that it's now open country, I suppose, for Vladimir Putin to go there too.

TAPPER: All right. Matthew Chance in Moscow for us, thank you so much. In the last hour, we spoke with the House speaker, Mike Johnson. My next guest gave the speaker a deadline before vowing to take legal action against him. We'll explain why, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:20:00]

TAPPER: In our Politics Lead, Speaker Mike Johnson now faces a potential legal threat over his delay of the swearing in of Congresswoman-elect Adelita Grijalva. Grijalva won the Arizona special election last month to fill the Congressional seat that had been held by her late father. Last hour, Speaker Johnson told me that protests from Democrats over the delay of swearing in Grijalva were hypocritical.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): Well, I'm following the Pelosi precedent. When my dear friend and colleague from Louisiana, Julia Letlow, was elected under very similar circumstances in 2021, Nancy Pelosi took 25 days to administer the oath to Julia.

Now, we didn't have press conferences and go banging on doors and make a big thing of it because we understood that is the regular process and tradition of the House.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Arizona's Democratic Attorney General Kris Mayes joins us now. Attorney General Mayes, thank you for joining us.

So, we just learned that Democratic leader Jeffries is calling for Congresswoman-elect Grijalva to be sworn in tomorrow during the pro forma session. You sent a letter to Speaker Johnson's office two days ago, which says, in part, quote, you and your staff have provided every shifting, unsatisfactory and sometimes absurd stories as to why Ms. Grijalva has not been sworn in.

[18:25:10]

We ask that within two days of the date of this letter, you provide this office with your assurance of when and where that will take place, which must be immediate and prior to the date the House comes back into regular session, unquote.

Have you heard back from him and what did you make of his explanation made to me earlier in the show that this is the precedent already set by Speaker Pelosi?

KRIS MAYES (D), ARIZONA ATTORNEY GENERAL: Hi, Jake. No, we have not heard back from him except for on your show and on a few other shows. What he gave you is about the sixth or seventh excuse for why he refuses to swear in Representative-elect Grijalva. And, yes, time is up. I gave him two days and he continues to refuse to swear her in. And Arizona's 7th Congressional District, 813,000 Arizonans are now being taxed without representation. That's unacceptable. The state of Arizona is being actively injured by his refusal to swear her in, and there are no legitimate reasons for doing it. He should walk over to her office right now, Jake, and swear her in.

TAPPER: What legal action, if any, is Arizona able to take against the House speaker? Isn't this up to his discretion?

MAYES: No. I mean, the law is very clear that no speaker of the House has the right to deny a state the seating of a member of Congress. No speaker has the right to basically violate the Constitution. I'll tell you, I have lawyers downstairs right now drafting the litigation. We are not messing around. And the people of the state of Arizona hired me to be their lawyer and hired me to protect them. Obviously, this is a little bit unprecedented. I mean, I don't know that we've seen anything like this before where a speaker refused to swear in a member who was duly elected.

Let's remember, Jake, she was elected with 70 percent of the vote, and this was about three weeks ago that that special election happened. It's long past time for her to swear her in and we're going to do everything we can, including going to court to make sure that it happens.

And, quite frankly, I can't think of a single reason other than that she's not being sworn in, other than the fact that she is likely to be the final vote on the Epstein discharge petition. So, whatever the reason is, it's got to end now.

We have people in her district who are not getting services. We just had a flood down in Southern Arizona. She's not able to help those folks. She's not able to do other constituent services, like help people with their Social Security benefits or their veterans' benefits. Time is up, Jake.

TAPPER: Well, Speaker Johnson said that she's already hired a staff of 16 and she's able to do some of these constituent service actions, even if she has not been sworn in. That's not true?

MAYES: No, I mean, she doesn't even have an email address, Jake. I mean, she doesn't have an email address. She doesn't have access to phones, she doesn't have access to computers. And she is not officially sworn in as a member of Congress. She can't vote on matters. She can't sign on to that discharge petition. So, I mean, that is just laughable. It's also offensive. And he is lying to you and he is lying to the American people.

So, you know, look, I mean, obviously we're at a point now where we're going to have to take him to court, and I'm willing to do that to protect the 813,000 people and to vindicate their rights and to vindicate and protect their votes.

TAPPER: Democratic Attorney General Kris Mayes from the State of Arizona, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

MAYES: Thanks, Jake. TAPPER: Some striking words today from the White House press secretary, Caroline Leavitt. Hear what she had to say about her views of the constituency of the Democratic Party.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:00]

TAPPER: Breaking news just into CNN, Trump's former national security adviser, John Bolton, moments ago released a statement after being indicted on 18 charges earlier today relating to allegedly mishandling classified documents.

Let's get right to CNN's Kaitlan Polantz. Katelyn, what does Mr. Bolton have to say?

POLANTZ: Jake, he's reframing this as weaponization of Donald Trump in the Justice Department. I'll read the statement for you. It's lengthy, but he goes through many of the allegations in this indictment. For four decades, I have devoted my life to America's foreign policy and national security. I would never compromise those goals. I tried to do that during my tenure in the first Trump administration, but resigned when it became impossible to do so.

John Bolton continues, Donald Trump's retribution against me began then continued when he tried unsuccessfully to block the publication of my book, The Room Where it Happened, before the 2020 election, and became one of his rallying cries in his reelection campaign.

Now, John Bolton says, I have become the latest target in weaponizing the Justice Department to charge those he deems to be his enemies with charges that were declined before or distort the facts. My book was reviewed and approved by the appropriate experienced career clearance officials. When my email was hacked in 2021, the FBI was made fully aware.

John Bolton continues, in four years of the prior administration after these reviews, no charges were ever filed. Then came Trump 2, he says, who embodies what Joseph Stalin's head of police -- head of secret police once said, you show me the man and I'll show you the crime.

John Bolton's statement ends, these charges are not just about his focus on me or my diaries, but his intensive effort to intimidate his opponents to ensure that he alone determines what is said about his conduct.

[18:35:01]

Dissent and disagreement are foundational to America's constitutional system and vitally important to our freedom. I look forward to the fight to defend my lawful conduct and to expose his, Trump's abuse of power. Jake?

TAPPER: All right. Katelyn Polantz, thanks so much. My panel is with me now. Karen Finney, I want to start with your reaction to the statement from John Bolton, now the third Trump adversary to be indicted in just the past few weeks, although legal experts have said this case does seem different from the others.

KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, yes. And, look, it's not any surprise, right, when we knew that this was coming, because Trump basically told us during the campaign in 2024, Mr. I Am Your Retribution, and we know that he has been on a retribution and revenge tour. So, I'd say Mr. Bolton's response, you know, meets that moment and, clearly, he believes he has a strong case.

I'll just point out the obvious irony here that Donald Trump was accused of the same. And we all have seen the pictures of the boxes, but we never got the opportunity to know the truth and to have that hearing. And, of course, that lawyer is now also, I think, being investigated, Jack Smith, if I'm not mistaken.

TAPPER: Jonah, what's your response to it all?

JONAH GOLDBERG, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'm bewildered, first of all. You're right, you talk to lawyers, this is a different kind of indictment than the other indictments, insofar as it's not being brought by a sort of a hack operative, you know, insurance lawyer, but by real prosecutors and it seems like they did due diligence and it's a real indictment, the facts alleged. Look, everybody's innocent until proven guilty.

I know John Bolton. I agree with him on a lot of things, including a lot of his criticism of Donald Trump, but it does sound like there's more meat on these allegations. And if it's true, I'm very disappointed for my friend because he's going to have a hell of a time fighting it on the merits if, again, these allegations are true. I find it so bizarre. He's such a sharp, accomplished lawyer and bureaucratic infire, the idea that he would do the things alleged, I find very, very shocking.

At the same time, I think his best case, all other, you know, day in court stuff notwithstanding, is that this is still -- he's still got a very good vindictive prosecution case because Trump is clearly vindictive. And, you know, he has an enemy's list that he is siccing the Justice Department on, and that can get a case thrown out even when you're guilty. And that's one of the reasons why whatever the -- I don't think there're much merits to the Letitia James or James Comey cases, but they could easily get thrown out simply for the selective or vindictive prosecution part of it. It's possible for this too.

TAPPER: Let's turn to another story. Earlier today, the White House press secretary, Caroline Leavitt, went on Fox and she reacted to Fox's interview with New York City mayoral candidates around Mamdani, in which he basically didn't express an opinion on whether Hamas should lay down its arms. Here is the White House press secretary.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: This interview proved that the Democrat Party's main constituency are made up of Hamas terrorists, illegal aliens, and violent criminals. That is who the Democrat Party is catering to, not the Trump administration and not the White House, and not the Republican Party who is standing up for law-abiding Americans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: This comment does come at a time when there have been several actions, violent actions, against people in public life, liberals, conservatives, others. What was your reaction when you heard this?

FINNEY: You know, I'll just say obviously as a Democrat, but also as a black woman in the Democratic Party, we are who is part of the 92 percent in the backbone, obviously, that does not describe who we are as a critical part of the party.

But you know what, Jake, here's my main reaction consistently. Obviously, the violent rhetoric has to stop. It won't, obviously. But I've never seen an administration so openly hostile to the 75 million people, not all of them Democrats, but still 75 million people voted against Donald Trump. They voted for Kamala Harris. And we are Americans too. And when you're the president, you're supposed to be the president for everyone.

And so in addition to the danger around that kind of rhetoric, it's really just a horrible turning point in our country to know that my president hates me simply because I'm a Democrat.

TAPPER: Well, it was the press secretary, not the president. We should say that. But, Jonah, what was --

FINNEY: Sure, although he said -- yes.

[18:40:00]

TAPPER: Well, just to be clear, who we're talking about. Jonah, your response.

GOLDBERG: Yes. Look, I should just get it in there that I think Zohran Mamdani's position on Israel and Hamas is opportunistic garbage and indefensible, it doesn't mean that the Democratic Party is a domestic enemy that should be treated like a terrorist network. You know, Ron Brownstein and myself and a bunch of other people have been saying since Trump's first term that he wants -- that Trump likes a wartime presidency, but he is the adversary in his wartime presidency where he invokes wartime powers and wartime authority are other Americans. And that's grotesque, you know?

And when you had Pete Hegseth do that infomercial with the generals, talking about how lethality is the American military's calling card, that's defensible. I mean, I don't think the American military has a lethality problem, but, okay, I get the point. But then to have the commander-in-chief follow up and talk about how we're going to train this lethal army in American cities, it sort of points to the kind of climate that Donald Trump wants to be president in. I think it's grotesquely irresponsible. It's working a little more than I would like so far in for his political objectives, but it's fundamentally un-American.

TAPPER: Jonah Goldberg, Karen Finney, thanks to both of you. I appreciate it.

The two candidates for attorney general of Virginia, a race we don't often pay too much attention to, they're facing off in a debate right now, just days after it was revealed that the Democrat in the race sent pretty horrific text messages years ago, 2022, suggesting that he would want a Republican colleague shot and killed and his kids as well. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

In our Politics Lead, a live look at the stage right now in Richmond, Virginia. This is a debate between the two candidates running for attorney general of the Commonwealth of Virginia, the incumbent Republican, Jason Miyares, and Democratic challenger Jay Jones.

[18:45:01]

The candidates wasted no time using their opening statements to address Jones' violent, disturbing text that he wrote in 2022.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JASON MIYARES (R), VIRGINIA ATTORNEY GENERAL: Jay Jones had said that he wanted to piss on the grave of his political opponents. And what did he want to do to Todd Gilbert? Two bullets to the head. Why? Because he didn't like his politics.

JAY JONES (D), VIRGINIA ATTORNEY GENERAL: Let me be very clear: I am ashamed. I am embarrassed, and I'm sorry. I am sorry to Speaker Gilbert. I'm sorry to his family. I'm sorry to my family. And I'm sorry to every single Virginian.

I cannot take back what I said, but you have my word that I will always be accountable for my mistakes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Let's talk about this race with two of our favorite Virginians. Democratic Congressman Suhas Subramanyam, and Marc Short, the former chief of staff to Vice President Mike Pence.

I should disclose I love all Virginians, but you know, you two are -- you two are good -- you are good enough.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: Congressman, Democrats -- Democrats have condemned the texts, but only Republicans have called on Jones to drop out of the race after the murder of conservative activist Charlie Kirk. You said on social media, quote, political violence is deeply disturbing and has zero place in this country. Why haven't you called on jones to drop out of the race, considering that he has suggested privately but still, that somebody he disagreed with should be shot and their kids should be killed?

REP. SUHAS SUBRAMANYAN (D-VA): Yeah. You know, let's be clear. I mean, what he said was horrific and has no place in politics. It was a private text message four or five years ago. It wasn't a direct threat. If it was a clear and present danger, I think it should have been reported then and not two weeks before an election.

But let's also take a step back. This debate, I've been watching it, really what's on the ballot in two weeks is we have a president who is weaponizing the A.G.'s office and weaponizing federal agencies and law enforcement against political opponents and weaponizing to protect his own corruption, protect pedophiles and the Epstein case.

And so that's what's on the ballot. And that's what's really happening right now. And that's what most of the debate is about, is we have Jason Miyares who has been complicit in what the president is doing, and you have, you know, Jay Jones, who is actually been pledging to fight back against it.

TAPPER: You heard Jay Jones apologize there at the top of the debate for the text. I want to play part of his response to an attack by his Republican opponent. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: I was held accountable by my party, and I deeply, deeply respect that. But what about when Donald Trump used incendiary language to incite a riot, to try to overturn an election here in this country? What about when Winsome Sears use violent language about people who disagree with you and her, and your extreme position on abortion?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Marc, what's your response? What are your thoughts on that?

MARC SHORT, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO VP MIKE PENCE: Well, look, I still remain shocked that not one national Democrat has called for Jay Jones to step aside in light of conscience, calling for assassination of a political opponent, but also his family. Jason Miyares family has lived and fled political persecution. His family fled from Castro's Cuba. He knows perfectly well the dangers of political persecution.

And Jason is somebody who was -- who has served our -- his constituents in Virginia Beach, but also the state as attorney general honorably. And I think that he's going to continue to do a great job when he gets reelected as attorney general of Virginia.

TAPPER: In a "Washington Post" poll that was taken just before the reports of Jones text messages surfaced, has -- it has the Democrat with a slight lead, 51 percent over Republican incumbent Jason Miyares at 45 percent, 4 percent said neither or no opinion.

Marc, how significant are these texts, do you think for voters? Do you -- do you think they're going to actually play a role in the election?

SHORT: I absolutely do. I think Virginia has pretty much become a Democrat state now. I think the Republicans need kind of a perfect storm like Terry McAauliffe created for Glenn Youngkin a few years back. And I think that this is this is something that is horrific enough that I think it's broken through to most Virginians.

And I think Virginia does have a history of even when they elect Democrats at the top of the ticket, electing Republicans to serve in a law-and-order job like attorney general. And Jason is an incumbent who's done a fantastic job.

And so that poll that you cite was from the end of September, I think it predates most of the controversy around the Jay Jones texts. And I think most recent polling shows that Miyares has actually pulled ahead. And so, I think that actually Jason will get reelected. And I think this has broken through to most voters across Virginia.

TAPPER: Congressman, in the governor's race today, former President Obama issued an endorsement of the Democratic nominee for governor, former Democratic Congresswoman Abigail Spanberger.

Her opponent, Republican Lieutenant Governor Winsome Earle-Sears, was asked about that on Fox. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. GOV. WINSOME EARLE-SEARS (R), VIRGINIA: The question is, did he endorse Jay Jones? No, he did. And by the way, doesn't he think -- Obama, don't you think that Abigail should talk to her opponent? To Jay Jones and say you need to get out of the race? Don't you think that needs to happen?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: I get that Winsome Sears is trying to tie Jay Jones with Congresswoman Spanberger. Spanberger has maintained a lead in the polls. You know, Virginia politics better than most of us.

Does Obama's involvement in endorsing Spanberger suggests that there are some fears that Democrats are getting worried?

SUBRAMANYAN: You know, I ran as a former Obama staffer when I got elected. He's still popular in the state, and he gets involved in Virginia politics often. And so, I would just take this as him, one of many Democrats all supporting the ticket and supporting Spanberger.

I'll say this, what people are talking about in Virginia is this federal workers and contractors being furloughed and fired all the time. They're talking about the way this administration is treating Virginians and how its raising costs on every single person. How about a food pantry today? They have a 5,000 percent increase in demand for new people wanting assistance, food assistance.

So that's what people are talking about right now in Virginia. I think, you know, we all talk here about, you know, what happened in those text messages. But in the end, people want to vote based on how they're feeling and how -- what's happening in D.C. is affecting their everyday life. I think the entire ticket is actually going to win the Democratic ticket.

TAPPER: Congressman, Marc, thanks to both of you. We'll be right back.

SHORT: Thanks, Jake. Thank you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:55:25]

TAPPER: In our pop culture lead today, sketch comedy actor in 1980s film star John Candy, is the subject of a new, heartfelt, lovely documentary called "John Candy: I Like Me", which is now streaming on Amazon Prime. The film features interviews with the actors, children and friends and colleagues with intimate reflections on the impact and legacy of the incredibly talented comedian who died too soon after a heart attack. He was only 43.

Here, now, talking to us about it is actor and the director of the new documentary, "John Candy: I Like Me", now streaming on Amazon, Colin Hanks.

Colin, thank you so much for being here.

So, you interviewed some of the most iconic names in comedy, Bill Murray, who's not only hard to interview, it's hard to even get in touch with him. Martin Short, Steve Martin, Conan O'Brien, Catherine O'Hara, just to name a few.

Tell me, what was one of the most surprising stories that you heard from them about working with John Candy?

COLIN HANKS, DIRECTOR, "JOHN CANDY: I LIKE ME": You know, I think what was most surprising was how sort of shy he was initially, when he first started at Second City. You know, keep in mind this is very, very early in his career, and, you know, while all of the scripted part of that stage show, he was very comfortable with, once they went into the improv, he was uncomfortable. It wasn't quite, you know what he was good at, and it took a while.

So I loved hearing that both Bill Murray and John Candy were bad at something. And then progressively, obviously became legends.

TAPPER: So wait was obviously a source of anxiety for John Candy. You interviewed your dad, Tom Hanks, who co-starred with Candy and a couple great films from my childhood, "Splash and Volunteers". Here's a little clip from your film.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM HANKS, ACTOR: When he would be doing Julia Child, or he would be doing Pavarotti, the only time he saw a big man doing stuff like that was like Jackie Gleason or Lou Costello. It had to be like literally a guy making jokes about his size, and he simply didn't.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: His father also died young from a heart condition at age 35.

How did Candy cope with whatever insecurities he had about his girth?

HANKS: Well, I think he was a people pleaser, you know? I think he was the kind of person that didn't want the other person to be uncomfortable, regardless of how uncomfortable they made him. He was always putting everybody first. And I remember having a conversation with Chris Candy very early on and he said, look, he took my dad, took care of everybody except himself.

And I think, you know, a lot of the stuff that we remember about John Candy, the things that we love, those were all coping mechanisms from a very, very early age. And towards the end of his life, those kind of stopped working. And anxiety sort of came into play.

But, I mean, John was just an incredible human being more than anything else.

TAPPER: He had a special relationship with the king of '80s films, director/filmmaker John Hughes.

Here's another clip from your documentary.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN HUGHES, FILMMAKER: I could do a script and give it to John., and John could -- he do the final check on it and you know, that was -- as a director, that was a great gift. You know, he really didn't allow me to make a mistake.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He wrote characters for him. "Uncle Buck," it was written for John. I mean, that's quite a statement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Hughes and Candy worked together, not only "Uncle Buck," but "Planes, Trains and Automobiles," home alone. In fact, the subtitle of your film, "I Like Me," comes from that line that Candy says to Steve Martin towards the end of "Planes, Trains and Automobiles", what do you think was John Candy's lasting -- most lasting impact on entertainment?

HANKS: I think his kindness. I think there was something about his eyes. I think everybody who watched him identified with him and they latched on to that kindness. They just felt, that's a good man right there. Who also made everybody laugh, you know, and, you know, there's not a person I've met when I've told them that, you know, about the John Candy and this documentary, they all say the same thing, the first thing out of their mouths.

I love John Candy. It's just that's just what the man, just exude. TAPPER: Yeah. There's that great moment in the Steve Martin

documentary recently where he just. He chokes up just thinking about his friend that he lost long, long time ago.

John Candy, I like him. He is now streaming on Amazon Prime.

Colin Hanks, thank you so much. Really appreciate it.

HANKS: Yeah. Thanks, Jake. Thanks for having me.

TAPPER: You can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, Threads, Bluesky, X, and on the TikTok @jaketapper. You can follow the show on X @TheLeadCNN.

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