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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump Signals Interest In Trade Of Ukrainian Drones For U.S. Tomahawk Missiles, But Does Not Commit; Rep. Don Bacon, (R-NE), Is Interviewed About Ukraine-Russia Deal; Trump: I Think Putin Wants To "Make A Deal" On Ukraine; Prince Andrew Gives Up Royal Titles After Accusations Swirl About Relationships With Jeffrey Epstein And Alleged Chinese Spy; Stocks Close Higher To Wrap Up Volatile Week On Wall Street; Trump Cast Doubts On His Massive Threat Against China; Venezuela Mobilizes Troops As U.S. Ramps Up Presence In Caribbean; Key 2025 Races Set To Test Trump's Strength; Madagascar's President Toppled After Weeks Of Youth-Led Protests. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired October 17, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, thank you for being here with us this hour in The Arena. And thank you to my panel for being here as well.

Bianna Golodryga is standing by for "The Lead."

Have a great show, Bianna.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Pamela. We'll look for more next week in "The Arena."

[17:00:31]

Topics at the White House today, Tomahawks, drones and F bombs. The Lead starts right now.

Tension points at the White House. The Ukrainian president proposing a major trade while President Trump hits a striking tone on Venezuela. Plus, breaking in Britain, Prince Andrew dropping his royal title and trappings. The move in the wake of the Jeffrey Epstein scandal, just as Congress also adds a new chapter. And war story on Wall Street, the factors creating so much volatility that may be affecting your money.

Welcome to lead, everyone. I'm Bianna Golodryga in for Jake Tapper. We start with breaking news and our world lead. President Trump today weighing in on multiple global conflicts as timed with some choice language as well as he met with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy at the White House first on Russia's war in Ukraine. The president says he thinks he can convince Russian President Putin to end his war. And signaled interest in Zelenskyy's proposed trade of Ukrainian drones for long range Tomahawk missiles. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They're an amazing weapon. They're a very powerful weapon, but they're a very dangerous weapon. And it could mean big, you know, escalation. It could mean -- a lot of bad things can happen. Tomahawks are a big deal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: This as a second summit with Trump and Putin is on the horizon, this time in Hungary. Then there's Trump's explosive comments on Venezuela. After a series of U.S. strikes on suspected drug boats with ties to Venezuela, the president signaled that the U.S. could use multiple methods to pressure President Nicolas Maduro from power. Trump responded to reports that Maduro offered the U.S. access to Venezuela's natural resources in exchange for lowering the temperature by saying this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: He's offered everything. You're right. You know why? Because he doesn't want to fuck around with the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: Wow. Let's go to CNN's Kristen Holmes at the White House for us and Nick Paton Walsh in London.

Kristen, let's start with you. Zelenskyy just left the White House in the last hour. I know he was speaking with European colleagues now. And President Trump just posted about the meeting on Truth Social. What is he saying about it, Kristen?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and just to be clear, Zelenskyy is just outside of the White House gates doing a press conference now with reporters. He wouldn't answer questions. He actually started that press conference by saying he was not going to answer questions about the one thing that everybody was wanting to know, which was whether or not President Trump had agreed to give him Tomahawk missiles, although it seemed very unlikely that he was going to after the remarks we've heard from President Trump over the last several days, particularly after he spoke to Russian President Vladimir Putin for two and a half hours yesterday. So President Trump now has given his readout of the meeting. I think we can pull it up here.

He posted this on Truth Social just moments ago saying, "The meeting with President Volodymyr Zelenskyy of Ukraine was very interesting and cordial. But I told him, as I likewise strongly suggested to President Putin, that it is time to stop the killing and make a deal. They should stop where they are, let both claim victory, let history decide."

Unclear exactly what he meant in terms of Zelenskyy making a deal. We know that there have obviously been conversations about giving up land, giving up parts of Ukraine to Russia. There have been moments in which President Trump has said Zelenskyy will have to do that and moments in which he has said Zelenskyy shouldn't give anything up and should keep fighting.

One thing is clear, though, President Trump is waiting or appears to be waiting to do anything at all until he has this meeting in Hungary with Vladimir Putin. Now, President Trump said multiple times during the sit down with Zelenskyy that he thinks that Putin wants an end to the war, that he thinks Putin wants peace. That was something Zelenskyy routinely pushed back on, saying he doesn't think that Putin actually wants peace. He doesn't think that he wants an end to the war, but he's hoping that President Trump can help him bring an end to the war.

Now, he was asked, President Trump pressed on this idea of why do you think that Putin wants peace now? And he didn't really have answer for that. So a lot of questions here. And particularly I think, Bianna, the big question is what exactly does President Trump think he's going to get out of another one-on-one meeting with Putin without Zelenskyy there, given that he didn't get anything that he wanted out of the last one in Alaska.

[17:05:09]

GOLODRYGA: Yes. And we know that his Secretary of State is set to meet with Russian officials before that Trump Putin meeting in the weeks to come.

Let me turn to you, Nick, because earlier in the week there was a sense of optimism that Zelenskyy could even walk away with a commitment from the U.S. to provide these Tomahawk missiles. Putin, as we've just been reporting, may have succeeded in preventing that from happening, at least for now, with that phone call yesterday. And you and I have spoken before, Tomahawks may not be game changers on the battlefield right now, but how is today's meeting going to be interpreted in Ukraine and in Russia?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we've just heard from President Zelenskyy. He was asked whether or not he was optimistic or pessimistic about the delivery of Tomahawks and said that he was realistic. Having earlier said he didn't want to discuss the details of their talks around Tomahawks, the U.S. didn't want an escalation.

Look, it's important to remind everybody the U.S. doesn't have a huge number to spare. There are two million per missile fired. So you have to be very cautious about the targets you select with that. And they would likely take months to get into Ukrainian hands. This is not a sudden overnight fix, but it was clearly a psychological move intended by the Trump administration to potentially buoy the Ukrainians.

But maybe also think, important to remember this, think inside the Kremlin that the United States is now talking about military force delivered via proxies, sure, but as military force as part of their negotiating strategy here. Now, clearly Putin has no problem meeting Trump repeatedly again in Budapest. No date set for that.

But it's also important to remember that we now see a President Zelenskyy who survived pretty much this Russian summer offensive. They have not taken key towns like Putin clearly wanted to. And maybe that puts a little extra pressure on Putin. Yes, he may think he can do a war of attrition for years going forwards, but his resources are potentially in peril. But then, you know, moments ago we see that Truth Social posting where essentially we have again Trump pressuring Zelenskyy and Putin to come to a deal.

I think it's pretty fair to say if Zelenskyy felt he had the security guarantees and the backing for the front lines to remain as they are right now, he'd probably take that, frankly. It's the concept of Ukraine being asked to concede land further to get a peace. That's always been tough for him to handle. But notably Zelenskyy giving very little away there about his phone call with European leaders. He said they talked about security guarantees, drone production, yes.

But I think he may have emerged from this meeting disappointed to have not got a clear public statement about Tomahawks. Probably not really thinking that would come that fast anyway. And possibly hoping that what we see in Budapest is yet again Trump disappointed and then Trump increasingly hardened against a Kremlin who nine months ago, he felt deeply positive towards. Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: And lot of -- a lot of fast moving developments there. Nick Paton Walsh and Kristen Holmes, thank you so much.

So let's discuss with Republican Congressman Don Bacon of Nebraska. He's a retired Air Force brigadier general.

Congressman, good to see you. So President Zelenskyy made it clear this week that Ukraine --

REP. DON BACON (R-NE): Thank you, Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: -- that Ukraine needs these and wants these Tomahawk missiles. His chief of staff, he himself calling them a game changer. But that optimism came just before Trump's call with Putin and then now the announcement of this Budapest summit. The president didn't make any commitments about Tomahawks now. Should he have?

BACON: I think he should have made commitments. And if he couldn't do the Tomahawks right now, say we will down the road as they're available. But if we can't give you these right now, we'll get you more ATACMS, more modernized F-16s and so forth.

You know, what bothers many of us is the president has been brilliant when it comes to Israel, Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah. I think he's done a great job and I praise him for it. But he's not that same person when it comes to Russia and Ukraine. It seems to me that Putin hoodwinks him at every step. He taps him along, as has been said by others.

And I don't know why the president falls for it. It is clear to 95 percent of the people out there, I mean, the vast majority, that Putin is a bad guy. He's killed his, you know, his opponents. He invaded Ukraine. He's behind killing the POWs of Ukrainians and bombing the cities.

I mean, he shut down two airliners where his army has. This is not a good guy. He's not -- Russia is in the wrong spot. We should be so clear that we stand with Ukraine, the free people of Ukraine, a democracy, free market, a country that wants, they want to come our direction. They want to be part of the E.U. and NATO. And we should be so clear that we're with them and doing what we can to help them win, but also going after these other countries that are propping up Russia's war economy. If we did that, this war would end sooner.

GOLODRYGA: Right.

BACON: Putin only knows a fist, right? And we got to show him the fist that we're not going to back down. But he thinks he could just play our president along, and it's very disappointing.

[17:10:03]

GOLODRYGA: Yes. President Trump seems to care more about the attrition of Russian troops than Vladimir Putin does, at least publicly. We know now that there's potentially going to be another meeting between these two men, this time in Budapest, Hungary. Yes, a NATO member, but with a leader who was quite close with Vladimir Putin.

You seem rather skeptical about this summit. You're not alone on that. As you post on X that Putin is continuing to bomb cities, bomb hospitals, do you think this is going to be a mistake for Trump to meet with Putin yet again?

BACON: I think it's -- you know, we have -- we have sort of a joke but it's not a joke, it's actually sort of sad, two more weeks and that's been the common refrain from the White House. And to me, this just looks like another opportunity to kick the can down the road a couple weeks and do nothing. Meanwhile, Russia bombs cities every night and is trying to do a war of attrition against Ukrainian civilians. And so I'm pessimistic that this will turn out well. And it is a shame that it's going to be in Hungary.

My mom was Hungarian, so I'm a pro-Hungarian person, but I'm not a pro Hungarian in their behavior with how they've been acting in this past year or two. They're -- they've been resistant to Ukraine getting in the EU and have really been a sympathizer to Putin. And that's a shame. Hungary fought the Soviets in 1956, and really, I had so much pride in what they stood for. We had the -- you know, we had the Wall, the Berlin Wall back then and Soviet Union, and to see where they're at today, it's a -- it's a shame.

But again, I ask our president stand on the side of freedom, have moral clarity, who is the invader and who is the bad guy in all of this. And let's start acting that way.

GOLODRYGA: All right. Republican Congressman Don Bacon of Nebraska. I learned that you and my husband share a common Hungarian heritage. Great to learn that. Good to see you.

Thank you so much.

BACON: Bye-bye. GOLODRYGA: Also breaking today, Prince Andrew just gave up his royal

titles. How they reignited the Jeffrey Epstein scandal that may have contributed to this move. And later the day in court for John Bolton, why this case is so much different than others against the president's perceived political foes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:16:13]

GOLODRYGA: Two major developments today in the Jeffrey Epstein saga. The House Oversight Committee dropped a transcript of last month's interview with Alex Acosta, the former top prosecutor in Palm Beach County, Florida, who negotiated Epstein's controversial 2008 plea deal. Acosta says other attorneys advised that taking Epstein to trial have been a crapshoot, saying, "If we go to trial and we roll the dice and we do the crapshoot and we lose, what kind of signal does that send? That says that he got away with it and that you can do that more. And so we thought it was very, very important to send that signal.

And that's why there's one reason -- that's one reason we favored the negotiated plea."

Meanwhile, over in the U.K. today, Prince Andrew announced that he's dropping his royal titles, saying accusations against him are a distraction. Let's bring in CNN's Royal Historian Kate Williams from London.

So, Kate, Prince Andrew vigorously denies all allegations against him. But take us through the relationship between Epstein and Andrew that's drawn such criticism in the past.

KATE WILLIAMS, CNN ROYAL HISTORIAN: This is very serious, as you say, Bianna. We really, we just scroll back to 2019, nearly six years ago when Prince Andrew gave an interview to the BBC in which he was asked all about Epstein. Apparently, he thought it went brilliantly, but really what he admitted was that he'd friends with him, he knew Virginia Giuffre, he'd known her, he claimed he hadn't done anything particular, done anything with her, but he knew her. And all of that interview, it was a huge fallout. He had to step back from royal duties.

And then when Ms. Giuffre opened a civil course against -- court -- civil case against him in 2022, then he had to lose his HRH title. And now as we approach the publication of Ms. Giuffre's memoir, it is being published next week, there has been extracts already in newspapers in the U.K. in which she talks about how he -- how he abused her and how he thought he was entitled to her body. And now we have Andrew giving up his title of Duke of York. This is very serious. This has been going on, there's conversations about Andrew have been going on with the king, with the Royal family, with the royal household and finally he has agreed to give up his title of Duke of York.

He is a long term friend of Epstein. He said in his interview he just, you know, hung around with Epstein because he knew famous people. But we've also realized that's been another lie. He told the BBC in 2019 that he didn't see Epstein after 2010, after the allegations of Epstein became -- came out. But recently it has been discovered that he actually did e-mail Epstein and say, you know, we're in this together and play again soon, apparently.

So it is very, very damaging. Andrew is very damaged, totally damaged by this. We think about in the state visit from President Trump when there was a big picture of Epstein broadcast up on Windsor Castle, that is tainting the royals. Andrew is tainting the royals. His long term friendship with Epstein, went to his island, went to his houses, stayed with him, claimed he had to stay with him in New York because there were no other places to stay in a city with many, many hotels and all kinds of apartments to stay in, so really, Andrew's terrible, ill-advised friendship with Epstein and some -- and the acts that he engaged in while he was friends with Epstein have ensured that he's toxic to the royal brand and he needs to be out of the royal family because the backlash against him is huge.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, well, just to give a sense of how damaging this has been for him, he has not been involved in public life since 2019, but we do know he's going to remain a prince because he's the son of Elizabeth II. What exactly does he mean when he says he's foregoing the use of other titles and honors and how does the Royal family expect it will help them publicly? [17:20:03]

WILLIAMS: Yes, well, Andrew has already given up HRH. He's given up his military titles in 2022 after there was a big petition by many members of the army and the armed forces in the U.K. saying we don't want this person to be associated with the army or the armed forces. And now he's no longer using the title of Duke of York that he has had to give up, and also Knight of the Garter, really the only royal titles he has left. As you say, Bianna, he cannot give up the title of prince. He's the son of the queen and that is the way it goes.

He is still prince but everything else has been conferred on him by the Royal family as an honor is now taken from him. And I think very much this is a signal that he's already stepped back as a working member of the Royal family. But we will not see him in family events. We are not going to see him when there is a big celebration for King Charles's 80th birthday in a couple of years, Andrew is out of the fold. And I -- well, the question is this enough to stop the backlash overall tainting the Royal family?

And Andrew has a huge property he lives in near Windsor Castle. It's a grace and favorite property for a royal person. Is he I think going to be increasingly pushed to give up that beautiful giant mansion he gets to live in on pretty much taxpayer's money? That's going to be the next question because I think that although the Royal family are trying to separate themselves from Andrew, the question is, is giving up Duke of York enough? And when Ms. Giuffre's memoir is published next week, I think it's going to be very, very damaging to Andrew.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. And if he isn't scandal plagued enough, he's also facing scrutiny over links to a reported Chinese spy. That's for another conversation.

Kate Williams, thank you so much.

Well up next, the major investments in artificial intelligence. How much did it contribute to all of the turbulence this week on Wall Street? We'll talk about it coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:26:03]

GOLODRYGA: In our money lead today, the U.S. stock market closed higher after a volatile week on Wall Street. The Dow, S&P 500 and NASDAQ all ending the day in the green after all three slid yesterday. And President Trump's trade war with China, trouble brewing in the banking industry and slower job growth are just a few of the concerning jitters. Economic -- economist Jason Furman joins me now to help explain all of it.

And I mean all of it, Jason. So let's talk about the reasons why volatility returned to Wall Street this week. What are the top economy related factors in your view?

JASON FURMAN, PROFESSOR, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: Yes, I mean one thing that was notable about this week is we're starting to think and talk about something other than Donald Trump. What's going on in the tech industry in many ways is more important both for economic growth and for the stock market, both up and down than anything Donald Trump is doing. But that themselves was quite important and last week that was certainly the big story.

GOLODRYGA: Well, I think you're talking about and hinting at the so called AI bubble that some are concerned the billion dollar investments keep pouring in and raising expectations about its impact. You noted last month, I'll recall that the U.S. economic growth in the first half of 2025 was almost entirely driven by investment in data centers and information processing technology. How much do you think AI and data centers are propping up optimism? And is that in fact worrisome? Are we over indexing on AI? FURMAN: Right. There's two parts to it. One is right now there is an

enormous amount of demand coming from the AI sector and it's building these data centers. It's building the energy to supply them. Second, there's inflated stock prices.

Those are related to the expectation that this is going to deliver in terms of supply, productivity growth and the like in the future. That second one is a much bigger question mark. The breakthroughs we need to be much, much better than ChatGPT5 to justify this. It's not like a couple extra $20 a month subscriptions. It will pay OpenAI back for the hundreds of billions of dollars it's spending on these models.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. That's why some of these CEOs are having to temper expectations for that very reason. OK, let's talk about China now. Because President Trump cast doubt on his own tariff threat against the country which was to slap 100 percent tariff on Chinese goods next month. And that is already on top of the 30 percent rate in effect.

Let's hear from the president. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: It's not sustainable, but that's what the number is. It's probably not, you know, it could, and -- but they forced me to do that.

I think we're going to be fine with China, but we have to have a fair deal. It's got to be fair.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: So he's saying it's not sustainable, but that's sort of the way it is and we have to be fair. How do you interpret this?

FURMAN: Look, this is someone who went up to 145 percent tariff threat on China and then went back down, dropped it, you know, almost 100 percentage points. He hasn't backed down with any other country in the way he does with China. And that's because I think he understands and the market is sending the signal strongly that the economic relationship with China is really important to the U.S. economy. And in some ways we are more dependent on China and need them even more than they need us.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. Xi Jinping clearly aware of that as well. They potentially could be meeting in the next few weeks. We'll see.

Jason Furman, thank you so much.

FURMAN: Thank you.

GOLODRYGA: Well, President Trump today revealed new details about the sixth U.S. strike now targeting suspected narco terrorists.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: That was a drug carrying submarine built specifically for the transportation of massive amounts of drugs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[17:30:03]

GOLODRYGA: But unlike other strikes, not everyone on this vessel was killed. What we know about the survivors, that's up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GOLODRYGA: In our world lead right now on a U.S. Navy ship, the U.S. is holding two survivors of a U.S. strike on an alleged drug-filled submarine in the Caribbean. That's according to President Trump. It would be the sixth known strike, the first that didn't kill everyone on board.

In the same week, Trump publicly declared he authorized the CIA to operate inside Venezuela to crack down on drug trafficking and migrants. This afternoon, the president had this colorfully worded message for the Venezuelan strongman leader, Nicolas Maduro.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[17:35:06] TRUMP: He's offered everything, you're right. You know why? Because he doesn't want to fuck around with the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: So joining us now is retired U.S. Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton. I won't ask you about that language from the President, but I will be asking you about what the United States is doing. The U.S. Navy is deploying about 4,000 more Marines and sailors to patrol waters around Latin America and the Caribbean.

Maduro is rolling out a new defense plan, reportedly mobilizing his own military police and militias. Could movements like this mean that both countries are preparing for potentially a larger conflict?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, Bianna, that unfortunately is often historically the case that when countries mobilize their forces, here we have some Marines getting ready for a training mission and here we have the Venezuelan National Guard and they are moving into what looks like a training mission as well.

So these are the kinds of things that we have to watch out for because as troops deploy to areas, we've got about 4,000 U.S. troops in and around Venezuela right now. That could be a telltale sign that they're trying to do something. And once those wheels are set in motion, sometimes it's very hard to stop them.

GOLODRYGA: So let's zoom out for a minute here because Trump says Venezuela is, quote, feeling heat. Can you explain for our viewers why this focus specifically on Venezuela?

LEIGHTON: So there's several different factors here, Bianna, but one of them is Tren de Aragua. This is a group that President Trump talks a lot about. They started in Venezuela, but they are in many other places. They also operate here in the United States. One of the things that they do is very clearly and very badly human trafficking. They also do target migrants as part of that human track -- tracking effort.

Money laundering is also one of the key elements that they do. And probably most importantly to the U.S. administration is drug smuggling. So that's one aspect of it right there. Then you've got the military aspect. There are many air bases that the Venezuelans have, but these are two of the main ones, El Libertador and Lieutenant Vicente Landaeta Gil Air Force Base.

They are in -- this part of Venezuela, and what they have are F-16s, American-made F-16s, and Russian-made SU-30s. So there is military power in Venezuela, and part of it is, of course, supported by Russia and also by Cuba.

The other thing about Venezuela is they have oil, and one of the key elements of that is what is called the Orinoco Belt. There are several different factors here. Venezuela had a lot of oil in the Maracaibo region off to the west here, but they also have a lot of oil potentially in these parts, plus they also have a potential dispute with Guyana in the Essequibo region.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, it used to be one of the richest countries in the world given their oil reserves. I do want to ask you and get your take on the head of the U.S. Southern Command stepping down. This is Admiral Alvin Holsey, who led operations in the Caribbean for only a year, and sources are telling CNN that he and Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth did not see eye to eye. This is a high-profile resignation during an incredibly tense time, as you've just laid out. How -- how unusual is that?

LEIGHTON: It is very unusual. Usually when tensions ramp up in a particular theater of, you know, theater potential conflict, the person in charge of that combatant command, in this case Southern Command, would stay on in the job and see things through.

But what clear -- what is clear to me about Admiral Holsey step -- stepping down is that there must be some policy disagreement going on here, and one of the key factors is that these attacks against the -- the little ships that we've seen off the Venezuelan coast, they may not quite fit in with the construct of the laws of war, and that's a key factor and could have resulted in his early retirement.

GOLODRYGA: All right. Colonel Cedric Leighton, thank you so much. Good to see you.

LEIGHTON: Good to see you too, Bianna.

[17:39:03]

GOLODRYGA: Well, with 18 days until Election Day, next we're looking at President Trump's influence on some major races.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GOLODRYGA: In our Politics Lead, 17 days until Election Day. Two states will choose new governors, New Jersey and Virginia. And while President Trump's name is not on the ballot, these races will be a test of his influence as both parties look towards next year's pivotal midterms. CNN's Jeff Zeleny has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JACK CIATTARELLI (R-NJ), GUBERNATORIAL NOMINEE: If she gets a flat tire on the way home today, she's going to blame President Trump. There's nothing she won't blame on the President.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Both sides are counting on President Trump in the biggest campaigns of the fall.

REP. MIKIE SHERRILL (D-NJ), GUBERNATORIAL NOMINEE: This is what is being attacked by Donald Trump in Washington.

ZELENY (voice-over): A year after winning back the White House, voters in New Jersey and Virginia are electing new governors, a test of strength for the president and for Democrats scrambling to rebuild their party.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is not Trump's race in New Jersey. It's Jack's race.

ZELENY (voice-over): In New Jersey, Republican Jack Ciattarelli.

CROWD: Jack, Jack, Jack.

ZELENY (voice-over): And Democrat Mikie Sherrill. Invoke Trump's name often, hoping to appeal to those who love him and those who don't. And in Virginia, the government shutdown is looming large in the fight between Democrat Abigail Spanberger and Republican Winsome Earle- Sears. The Trump effect is playing out in T.V. ads in both races.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: MAGA Republican Winsome Earle-Sears.

CIATTARELLI: New Jersey's a mess, and all Mikie Sherrill wants to talk about is President Trump. Come on.

ZELENY (voice-over): And on the debate stage.

CIATTARELLI: I'd certainly give the President an A. I think he's right about everything that he's doing.

SHERRILL: I think that tells us all we need to know about who Jack Ciattarelli's supporting. I'd give him an F.

ZELENY: You had a Trump conversion. You once said he was unfit for office, and now you gave him an A rating. How did that happen?

CIATTARELLI: J.D. Vance said things a whole lot worse than me, and today he's the vice president. I think the President has done a whole lot in his 10 months in office, particularly things that have been very good for New Jersey.

[17:45:05]

ZELENY (voice-over): Sherrill is casting Trump's actions in a different light, including the decision this week to stop one of the nation's largest infrastructure projects.

TRUMP: It's terminated.

ZELENY (voice-over): A $16 billion commuter rail tunnel between New Jersey and New York.

SHERRILL: Trying to take away jobs here in New Jersey when he says he's going to terminate the gateway tunnel right now, almost 100,000 good union jobs.

ZELENY (voice-over): Trump made significant gains in both states last November, but the strongest shift came in New Jersey, which he lost by 16 points in 2020, but only sixth in 2024.

ZELENY: Why was that, and is that instructive to your race at all? SHERRILL: I think it was because he told people to drive down their costs. He was pretty clear that he was going to do that, and I think a lot of people feel very let down that he's done nothing but raise their costs.

As he's raising their costs, he's making billions of dollars, and so that is really, I think, speaking to people and saying, look, this is not some guy that has my interest at heart.

ZELENY (voice-over): Ciattarelli is trying to thread a delicate needle of tapping into the MAGA movement while avoiding being seen by some as too aligned with Trump.

CIATTARELLI: They know that this race is about New Jersey. It's not about the president.

ZELENY (voice-over): The outcome could hinge on cities like Paterson and the surrounding county, where Trump's improved showing last year is a fresh worry for Mayor Andre Sayegh, a Democrat.

ANDRE SAYEGH, MAYOR OF PATERSON, NEW JERSEY: It's not a year ago. Now he's in. Now he's in, and people, quite frankly, may have voters' remorse, and we're banking on that, voters' remorse.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZELENY: So we will see if there is any voters' remorse in the race. But, Bianna, so interesting, this race is certainly hinging on Republicans trying to fire up the Trump base. Democrats are trying to use Trump to unite their own base and motivate them. These races will tell us a lot about the direction of the Democratic Party and the strength of President Trump.

GOLODRYGA: You'll be following them all for us. Jeff Zeleny, thank you.

Here now is the panel. Welcome both of you. T.W., let me start with you because President Trump is backing the Republican nominee Ciattarelli in New Jersey's governor's race, but he's been silent in Virginia. Is the President giving up on that specific race? Why isn't he working to make it more competitive?

T.W. ARRIGHI, VICE PRESIDENT, PUSH DIGITAL GROUP: Well, I'm not so sure he is. Just last week, he was going after Abigail Spanberger for her refusal to ask Jay Jones to drop out of the race and calling into question her fitness for office. Look, there is, gubernatorial races are their own animal when it comes to national politics versus local politics, and each one has its own flavor.

The -- the Virginia race has tightened dramatically, and if you were taking a pick a few weeks ago between the two races, you would easily say the New Jersey race is more winnable. But now, given the self- inflicted wounds by the Democrats, there's a real chance in Virginia, and we'll see what happens these next few weeks.

GOLODRYGA: Well, sticking with New Jersey, Mo, the chair of the Democratic National Committee, Ken Martin, told "Politico," quote, New Jersey is the best place probably for Donald Trump to actually stop the Democratic momentum, but still believes the Democrats in New Jersey and Virginia would, quote, win handedly. Why is this race in New Jersey so close?

MO ELLEITHEE, FORMER SENIOR SPOKESMAN, 2008 HILLARY CLINTON CAMPAIGN: Well, I think there are a number of reasons, not the least of which is New Jersey has a history of electing Republican governors on occasion. It tends to be much more competitive at the state level. But I do think that some of the Republican self-inflicted wounds are going to end up hurting the Republican candidates in both places. Jeff mentioned in his report, the President's sort of retribution against Democrats by shutting down important projects is probably not going to be very popular in New Jersey.

And if the Republican candidate is embracing the President, that's a problem. And in Virginia, he -- Jeff referenced the shutdown. The problems there started long before the shutdown. It started with DOGE and with the White House rhetoric about federal workers, when the two most populous regions of that state, Northern Virginia and Norfolk, are so dependent on the federal economy.

They are so -- they have so many government workers and contractors. I don't see why the Republican candidate would even want the President's endorsement. She apparently does. But there's a reason why Donald Trump's numbers continue to -- continue to struggle in states like Virginia.

GOLODRYGA: T.W., how do you want to respond? I mean, do you think that the shutdown is negatively hurting the Republican candidates here?

ARRIGHI: Well, that remains to be seen. I think Mo rightfully pointed out that there's a lot of government jobs here in Virginia. But look, Winsome Earle-Sears, this is going to be a Virginia-centric race. There's a number of issues beyond just the government shutdown and DOGE that are going on there.

[17:50:09]

You've seen Jack Ciattarelli embrace DOGE and give Donald Trump an A. That's also reflective of how Donald Trump performed in both those states, going way above expectations. And you've also seen increases in GOP registration in those states, especially New Jersey.

Look, if you look at the polling, let's take New Jersey, for example, Jack Ciattarelli only lost four years ago by about three points. He's already four points stronger this go-around than he was then and gaining. And you can always tell how a candidate feels that they are doing down the stretch when you hear their attacks.

Abigail, sorry, Mikie Sherrill, in their last debate launched a very, very false attack against Ciattarelli, blaming him for opioid deaths. "The New York Times," just this week, said it was completely bunk. That shows the Democrats are very worried. Ken Martin also said as such. I think you're going to see two races down to the wire and a Republican victory in New Jersey and very, very close in -- in Virginia.

GOLODRYGA: Well, President Obama is weighing in now and he's formally endorsed Mikie Sherrill in a campaign ad. Here's just part of it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Now I want to talk to you about my friend Mikie Sherrill. Mikie is a mom who will drive down costs for New Jersey families. As a federal prosecutor and former Navy helicopter pilot, she worked to keep our communities safe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: So, Mo, this coming just a day after the former president endorsed Spanberger in Virginia, in a similar video, we should note, what do these two races say about your party ahead of next year's midterms?

ELLEITHEE: Well, I think two things, right? Democrats need strong turnout amongst the base. President Obama is a great motivator for the Democratic base. So clearly that's part of it. But if you listen to the message there, right, he's going right at two perceived weaknesses for Democrats in the last election, cost of living and public safety. And Democrats are starting to flip the script on those two issues against Republicans.

You know, this notion that Donald Trump promised to bring down costs has not done it. And the Democratic candidates for governor will is a way to sort of try to flip that script. So it's a smart ad, it's a smart message here in the final weeks, but the proof's going to be in the pudding and we'll know in a couple of weeks.

GOLODRYGA: T.W., I mean, there's a lot of question about the direction the Democratic Party's headed in, but if they're focusing on the cost of living in the economy does that even matter for Republicans?

ARRIGHI: Well, I think Republicans also need to be focused on affordability. I think it's always the economy's stupid. Look, many in the Democratic establishment are hoisting up these two candidates as a projection of what they want future candidates to be, namely not Zohran Mamdani in the socialist left of their party.

The problem with that is the true energy of the Democratic Party is on the far left, is on the socialist fringes. And that's something they're going to have to contend with in lots of elections going into the midterms.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, we didn't even get to the mayoral race here in New York. Hopefully we can talk about that in the next hour. Thank you both. Don't go far. We'll talk soon.

[17:53:17]

Well, up next, the political uprising led by Gen Z protesters that just pushed out one country's president.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GOLODRYGA: Back to our World Lead, a Gen Z resistance movement in Madagascar toppling the president after weeks of protests. Well, he's now in hiding. The military has taken power. This youth-led uprising is a mirror image of a number of others this year against rulers in other foreign nations, as CNN's Larry Madowo explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Cheers and celebrations in the capital of Madagascar after weeks of protests against the government. The military announcing it had taken charge of the island following the impeachment of embattled President Andry Rajoelina after he fled the country. His current whereabouts are unknown.

COLONEL MICHAEL RANDRIANIRINA, MADAGASCAR MILITARY LEADER (through translator): We made the decision because as I have explained several times, nothing is working in Madagascar. There is no president, no president of the senate, no government. Nothing is working. So we have to take responsibility. That's it.

MADOWO (voice-over): The protests, which have largely been led by Gen Z, first erupted weeks ago over water and power shortages and quickly evolved into an uprising of a broader issue in the government, like corruption and lack of basic services.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): In 12 years, no one has ever listened to us, which is why we are now insisting on the president's departure and not on dialog.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We don't want to wait any longer. We don't want propaganda and all that. We want him to resign.

MADOWO (voice-over): The anger and frustration that boiled over in Madagascar mirrors other recent Gen Z protests around the world, in countries like Peru, Morocco, Nepal and Kenya. The demonstrators in Madagascar have also adopted the symbols of other youth-led movements, with many sporting t-shirts and flags bearing a cartoon skull and straw hat from the Japanese manga series "One Piece", an emblem of Gen Z resistance. But even as they celebrate their apparent victory, Madagascar's young protesters say the fight is far from over.

STYVE RAZAFINDRAINIBE, STUDENT PROTESTER (through translator): It is only the struggle on the ground that is over, not the struggle at the negotiating table. And that is where the change of system, the desire to change the system takes on its meaning.

[18:00:07]

MADOWO (voice-over): From Madagascar to Indonesia, Gen Zs are redefining political action and forcing all the leaders to pay attention or get removed.

Larry Madowo, CNN. (END VIDEOTAPE)