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The Lead with Jake Tapper

New York Times Reports, Trump Demands $230 Million Settlement From DOJ For Past Cases; Racist Text Message Report Threatens To Derail Trump Nominee; Weather Balloon May Have Cracked United Plane's Windshield; Indiana University Clashes With Student Paper Over Press Freedom. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired October 21, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.

This hour, Donald Trump is demanding $230 million from his own Justice Department. The president wants compensation, he says, for the federal investigations into him over the last few years. A former Trump attorney is going to join me live in moments to react.

Plus, growing backlash against a Trump nominee accused by Republican colleagues of sending racist and anti-Semitic texts and saying that he had a, quote, Nazi streak, and now Senate Republicans are urging that the White House withdraw the nomination of Paul Ingrassia to lead the Office of Special Counsel. But is President Trump listening?

Also, damning and heartbreaking revelations in a new memoir out today written by Epstein victim Virginia Giuffre before she died by suicide. Giuffre also leaving hints about others who were connected to Epstein and his horrific acts.

And new details today on what might have caused a cracked windshield on a United Airlines flight that injured a pilot and forced the plane to divert last week with more than 140 people on board.

Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.

Our Lead tonight, President Trump demanding that the Justice Department pay him close to $230 million to make up for the federal investigations into him. That's according to The New York Times, which President Trump confirmed in the Oval Office just minutes ago. $230 million, that's more than twice the estimated value of the stolen jewels from the Louvre.

But President Trump now says he has some charitable plans for the money if he is awarded the cash. Sources tell the Times that senior Justice Department officials, including those who have represented Trump and others in his orbit, may ultimately be the ones who will sign off on the settlement.

CNN's Chief White House Correspondent Kaitlan Collins joins me now. Kaitlan? KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, Jake. This is a story that broke just a few hours before we went into the Oval Office just a few moments ago with President Trump. And so multiple of us asked the president about this story that The New York Times is reporting that he is seeking $230 million from the Justice Department, and these are claims that were submitted and The New York Times describes them basically as a precursor to lawsuits. They were submitted, Jake, before he actually won back the presidency and before he returned to the Oval Office.

But you make a great point there that the reason this is notable is because it would now be his own Justice Department making this decision, a Justice Department that is staffed by a lot of people who previously served as his own former personal attorneys. And so we asked the president about that in the Oval Office, Jake, and this is what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: Because the New York Times is reporting that your legal team is seeking $230 million from your own Justice Department now in response to the investigations into you.

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: It could be.

COLLINS: Is that something you want your legal team to do?

TRUMP: I don't know what the numbers are. I don't even talk to them about it. All I know is that they would owe me a lot of money, but I don't, I'm not looking for money. I'd give it to charity or something. I would give it to charity any money. But look what they did, they rigged the election. And as you know, we had in one case, 60 Minutes had to pay us a lot of money. George Stephanopoulos had to pay us a lot of money and they already paid. You know, they paid me a lot of money because what they did was wrong, and, you know, when somebody does what's wrong.

Now, with the country, it's interesting because I'm the one that makes a decision, right? And, you know, that decision would have to go across my desk and it's awfully strange to make a decision where I'm paying myself. In other words, did you ever have one of those cases where you have to decide how much you're paying yourself in damages, but I was damaged very greatly, and any money that I would get, I would give to charity.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: So, Jake, the president, was referencing there lawsuits and settlements that he's had with private companies. Obviously, this would be different because it would be from the federal government, from his own Justice Department now, and that money that he said that he would donate to charity if he wins and if he gets this lawsuit, if it's approved by the DOJ, obviously, Jake, that would be taxpayer- funded money presumably. And so that raises the whole slew of questions of how this would go going forward and the ethics questions that such a settlement from his own Justice Department would raise. TAPPER: All right. Kaitlan Collins at the White House, thanks so much.

Don't miss Kaitlan on her show, The Source with Kaitlan Collins tonight. She's going to be joined by family members of Epstein survivor Virginia Giuffre, who died by suicide earlier this year. That's tonight at 9:00 Eastern only on CNN.

Let's bring in Criminal Defense Attorney and former Trump Lawyer Bill Brennan. Bill, first of all, go Birds, I want to start with your initial reaction to this news, given how truly unprecedented it is, a president asking for $230 million from his own Justice Department after also the unprecedented investigations into him.

[18:05:03]

BILL BRENNAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Jake, always great to be with you, and go Birds. But, Jake, it's unprecedented that we have a president who served four terms as president of the United States, then was citizen Trump for four years, and now is President/Citizen Trump again, but it's not unprecedented in our body of laws. We have a law on the books called the Hyde Amendment, and it emanated from a very unpleasant case in Florida many years ago where a young child went missing. And the local authorities under the theory that it's usually the parents fabricated evidence, surreptitiously taped them and just made a case where there was no case and a federal judge awarded, I think it was $2.9 million. Now that's 35 years ago. But the Hyde Amendment talks about compensation for prosecutions that are vexatious, frivolous and in bad faith.

So, there are laws on the books to compensate someone for a tort. A tort in the law is a wrongful act of somebody bangs into you with their car or, you know, hits you with a shovel, you know, that's a tort. But the second issue I heard you raise earlier was, you know, how do you -- he's citizen Trump and he's President Trump. How do you navigate those orders? And I can tell you from practicing criminal defense law in federal court for damn near 40 years they can work that out, similar to Mr. Comey's lawyer, Patrick Fitzgerald. They filed some papers, the government, about possibly excluding him. And the government will build a firewall. They'll build some type of failsafe system to make sure that it's decided fairly. And that'll have to happen here, most likely, if in fact DOJ officials, who had an affiliation with President Trump, are in on the negotiations, the settlement, whatever.

But it appears that all the president really has done is while he was citizen Trump from '20 to '24, he went through the process, as any citizen can do. He filed a claim. Now, he's President Trump. The claim is pending, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. The claim could be reviewed and it could be denied or it could be approved. But there's nothing wrong with -- look, he's only president for eight years. He's citizen Trump for 79 years. You have to give that precedence.

TAPPER: Sure. But let's talk about the two complaints that President Trump is making, according to the Times. The first complaint is he seeks damages for a number of purported violations of his rights, including the FBI and special counsel investigation into Russian election tampering and possible connections to the 2016 Trump campaign, according to people familiar with the matter. So, that's from 2015, 2016, that's from Crossfire Hurricane. Does that claim have merit, in your opinion, that his rights were violated during that investigation?

BRENNAN: Jake, I don't know enough about that fact pattern to give you an intelligent answer, but I can tell you in a -- you know, you're talking micro. In a macro sense, any citizen who feels he or she was wronged under, as I mentioned earlier, the Hyde Amendment, if they feel that the prosecution was vexatious, frivolous or in bad faith, and that's right from the statute, they can bring a claim. Maybe they win, maybe they lose. If it doesn't survive the settlement process, then they can file a lawsuit.

But we can't penalize the president because he's president. He's always citizen. It's kind of like a seventh grade math, sects and subsets. He's always citizen Trump for eight years will be the subset of citizen/president, but it would be unfair to Citizen Trump to penalize him because he is now President Trump.

TAPPER: I don't know that you're helping me understand it by introducing math just as a note. But the second complaint --

BRENNAN: That's about the limits of my math.

TAPPER: The second complaint says, quote, Trump's team accuses the FBI of violating Mr. Trump's privacy by searching Mar-a-Lago, his club and residence in Florida, in 2022 for classified documents, unquote. But, of course, when it comes to Mar-a-Lago, a judge saw grounds to sign off on a search warrant. I don't think there's really any dispute that President Trump had documents that the FBI was trying to get and that he wouldn't turn over. How could that be a violation of privacy?

BRENNAN: Well, Jake, here's the answer to that.

[18:10:00]

It's a step-by-step process. A judge or a magistrate judge on an affidavit of probable cause, it's a one-sided document by a law enforcement official said not he's guilty or he is not guilty, there's enough to at least give a search. You could make the same argument that President Biden, when they allegedly found classified documents behind is greenwood green 1967 Corvette Roadster had that issue. You can make the same argument that Mr. Bolton has that issue.

The fact that a magistrate judge or a judge approved a search warrant is absolutely no indication that there was meat on the bone of the case. And if it turns out that the ultimate case was vexatious, frivolous or in bad faith. He's got a claim.

TAPPER: Vexatious, frivolous or in bad faith, All right, I got it. Bill Brennan, thanks.

BRENNAN: I just repeat it because that's the law. Somebody smarter than me wrote that law. TAPPER: I learned something vexatious, frivolous and in bad faith. That's like in my brain now forever.

BRENNAN: Hyde Amendment.

TAPPER: All right, Bill.

BRENNAN: Now, if you Google it, there's another Hyde Amendment regarding something else.

TAPPER: That's something else.

BRENNAN: Ignore that.

TAPPER: All right. Thanks so much, Bill. Good to see you, as always.

Key Republicans are now signaling that a Trump nominee does not have the support he needs ahead of a hearing for later this week, but will President Trump officially pull the nomination? I'm going to ask one of those Republican senators in moments.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:15:00]

TAPPER: Our Politics Lead now, another Trump nominee is now facing fresh scrutiny ahead of his confirmation hearing. Text messages obtained by Politico appear to show Paul Ingrassia, Trump's pick to lead the Office of Special Counsel, telling a group chat that he, quote, has a Nazi streak. He uses an Italian slur for black people to say that Kwanza, MLK Jr. Day, black history month, and Juneteenth should be eviscerated. He calls all of Africa an S hole, except not S. He pushes back when others tell him he was coming across as a white nationalist. It goes on and on.

A lawyer for Ingrassia did not confirm or deny the text's authenticity. CNN has previously reported on Ingrassia's history of racist rants and conspiracy. Several Senate Republicans are showing concern about his nomination. Majority leader John Thune says he hopes the White House pulls the nomination.

Let's bring in Republican Senator Ron Johnson from Wisconsin. Senator, always good to have you. So, you're on the Senate Homeland Security Committee, which we'll oversee Ingrassia's scheduled hearing tomorrow. What's your position on his nomination? What do you think should happen?

SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): Well, Jake, you know, you're trying to fill literally thousands of positions within the administration. You don't always bat a thousand. Sometimes you have nominees with issues, and, generally, when that happens, the best thing for everybody concerned, including the nominee, is just quietly withdraw that nomination. That's probably what should have been done in this case, probably what should be done now, do it quietly is a little more difficult. But that's certainly my recommendation.

TAPPER: But if they have the hearing tomorrow is there anything that he could say or do that might sway you to vote for him?

JOHNSON: No. I've already gone on the record. I will not support the nominee, others have as well. So, again, this is not a nomination that's going to be confirmed. And the soon the White House recognizes that, it'll be best for everybody, including the nominee.

TAPPER: You noted that it probably should have been pulled a while ago, and we should note that the story in Politico about text messages broke yesterday, CNN reported a while ago about Ingrassia's history of problems. He's vehemently defended conspiracy theorist Alex Jones. He co-hosted a podcast that called for martial law and secession after Trump's loss in 2020, quote, Ingrassia and his podcast's X account have also shared comments from notorious white nationalist and Holocaust denier Nick Fuentes. Ingrassia's argued publicly that straight white men are the most intelligent demographic group and should be prioritized in education, unquote. Besides that he's 30. He's a former intern at the White House. He admitted to the bar only last year. This position is meant to lead a 110-person department for five years, operate independently from the White House.

Still, even after what CNN reported weeks ago, the White House continued to support his nomination anyway. Why do you think that is? And why would he be nominated in the first place?

JOHNSON: I can't answer that question. All I can say is, you know, from my standpoint, I won't support the nominee and it would've been better to have pulled this quietly quite a while ago. Better to do it now than hold a hearing.

TAPPER: Let's move on. Senate Republicans were at the White House today. You joined the president for a cheeseburger lunch. Leader Thune told reporters that he thinks the White House will have something official to say about Ingrassia. I want to talk about other things that came up at the lunch, but, first, did this come up at the lunch?

JOHNSON: No.

TAPPER: What was discussed at the lunch? Are Republicans holding firm when it comes to demanding that Democrats join you on the continuing resolution and keep the government -- so as to reopen the government?

JOHNSON: Well, first of all, the lunch was really kind of a thank you to the Republican Senate Conference for kind of hanging together and supporting the president's agenda, which has been wildly successful. And the president took some time and went through all the accomplishments of this administration. It was kind of a big thank you, ushered us in the Oval Office. He's quite proud of what he is done with the Rose Garden. It's an excellent event space now. So, it was more just a moment of celebration. It was a beautiful day and it was just very pleasant meeting.

TAPPER: Where are you on the president's tariffs? I know you've expressed concern because, obviously, some small businesses in Wisconsin are hurting because of these tariffs. Are you still concerned about them? Are you expressing concern to the White House at all about them? JOHNSON: No. I've shared similar views as so many of my constituents, some of them are being harmed by the trade war, but they recognize what the president is doing has to be done. We need to insist on fair trade. So, you know, I am concerned, a lot of people are concerned. I'm sure the president's concerned, but he's also, you know, realizes that tariffs are a tool he can use to get fair trade.

From a standpoint, the overall generalized tariff, I think a lot of us have been proven wrong that, you know, I think we were concerned that was going to be more harmful than it actually has turned out to be.

[18:20:07]

We'll see how the Supreme Court rules on that case as well.

So, I still have an open mind, but I'm concerned. And what I've been doing and the administration's been very open to hearing the problems people are having, they're very open to it. They're very aware of it. But the president's doing what he feels is necessary and a lot of people, including me, don't necessarily disagree with generally what has to be done to obtain free trade and fair trade in this country.

TAPPER: Senator Ron Johnson, Republican from Wisconsin, thank you for your time today, sir. I appreciate it.

JOHNSON: Have a great night.

TAPPER: The company behind a line of weather balloons says its products might be responsible for cracking the flight of United plane windshield and injuring a pilot. Exactly what happened and how big of a threat could this be to other planes?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our National Lead now, a weather balloon may have been responsible for cracking a plane's windshield injuring a pilot last week, according to officials. The CEO of WindBorne Systems, which is a weather forecasting startup, said they are working with investigators to confirm their suspicions and prevent future incidents like this.

CNN's aviation expert, Pete Muntean, is here to explain. Pete, what exactly happened?

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: This was the big mystery on social media if you're a av geek on there for about the last week or so, and the photos of that smashed in windshield on a United Airlines Boeing 737 MAX 8 sparked all kinds of speculation. Was it a bird strike? Pretty unlikely at 36,000 feet. So, then came the theories about space junk, debris from a satellite reentering the atmosphere. It would've been a first, but we now know that United Flight 1093 was probably hit by a weather balloon.

This is the translucent balloon that comes from the company called WindBorne. It weighs about 2.4 pounds. We're talking about a few cans of soup in grocery terms. It gets lighter as it climbs. The company has launched thousands of these. And all to FAA standards, they say, including sending alerts to pilots and air traffic controllers. The instrument package provides better weather forecasts. It's pretty small. You can see the banana there for scale, but at four 60 miles an hour, it can clearly do some damage.

The likely collision happened last Thursday. And WindBorne CEO says, I learned it could have been one of their balloons late Sunday night, and he posted this on X. I find it extremely concerning and unacceptable regardless of what the official regulations are. It resulted in an injury to a pilot, which I'm simply not okay with. The NTSB now investigating this and it's keeping its windshield from this flight and its lab for analysis.

Very likely this is the first time the agency has ever investigated a possible weather balloon and airplane collision. You could really only find one other case of this. You have to go back to 1970 in the Soviet Union when an aero flight hit what's called a instrument package below a weather balloon that caused the plane to go out of control. 45 people died. Obviously, in this case, clearly not as calamitous, everyone was okay. Only the pilot received minor injuries.

TAPPER: I like how the CEO's handling it though, just the admission.

MUNTEAN: Yes, coming out with it.

TAPPER: Yes. No, you don't see that a lot in public life today.

As long as I have you, air traffic control issues are causing some problems today. What's going on?

MUNTEAN: Well, the new things are delays at Houston Hobby, a big Southwest hub, 90-minute delays, Newark, which has not been estranged to issues, 32-minute average delays. The problems are air traffic control staffing. And remember that air traffic controllers are not getting paid during this government shutdown, and the number of sick calls has gone up, according to Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy. We will likely see this continue to happen as the shutdown now drags longer and longer.

And so the big thing now is how do we pay these air traffic controllers next Tuesday? They will get their next zero paycheck.

TAPPER: Yes. Again, congratulations to Congress. I really appreciate it. Pete Muntean, I appreciate it.

The harrowing posthumous memoir by Virginia Giuffre now on bookshelves as of today, it details the abuse that she suffered at the hands of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell and others. We're going to talk about whom else she may have implicated in Epstein's circle. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:00]

TAPPER: In our Law and Justice Lead, Virginia Giuffre posthumous memoir, Nobody's Girl, is out right now. It was published today. It gives an unflinching look into the vast and terrifying world of Jeffrey Epstein's sex trafficking ring and describing the alleged manipulation by Epstein and his associate, Ghislaine Maxwell, Giuffre writes, quote, I was groomed to be complicit in my own devastation. Of all the terrible wounds they inflicted, that forced complicity was the most destructive.

Epstein survivor Jess Michaels joins us down to discuss. Jess, before I ask you questions about Virginia Giuffre, let me always just note, I know this is not fun to have the worst part of your life discussed, whether it's in a private room or on international television. How are you doing?

JESS MICHAELS, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: Thank you for asking, Jake, and thank you for having me back. It isn't fun. It's not for attention. It's not for the things that I see on social media, the people that really don't understand what survivors are having to do and kind of forced to do every single day, but it has a greater purpose and we all really believe in that purpose wholeheartedly. And Virginia was the brightest light in teaching us how to overcome the fears and the grief and the trauma of it. And so I am honored to be here and I'm honored to be talking to you about this topic, specifically, her book.

TAPPER: Jess, don't read the comments on social media. I don't even know how many of those are actually people, but --

MICHAELS: It's true. It's true.

TAPPER: Please just read the stuff to make you happy. Don't read the comments.

Let's talk about Giuffre's book. At the beginning of it, it says it's, quote, dedicated to my survivor sisters and to anyone who has suffered sexual abuse, unquote. Now, in order to end sex trafficking, Giuffre believed it was important for people to talk about it rather than treat it as a secret. And I found the part of the book in which she talked about her own complicity, like groomed into her own complicity, which she said, was the most destructive, forced complicity. Talk about that if you would, because I think you and I talked about this last time, how people don't understand it's not women or girls kept in a dungeon. It's people groomed to think that they need to do such a thing. Talk about that, if you would.

MICHAELS: Yes, and it's groomed in this idea of hope for one thing that it initially starts out as hope. But I think what's going to happen with this book is it's going to be sex trafficking 101 for the wealthy, how to get away with it. I think it's going to be a book that I hope parents read and learn from. But I hope law enforcement, attorneys, justice systems, justices, criminology classes actually use this book as a way to try to understand the victim's perspective.

[18:35:06]

But I also think -- I loved that you pulled that quote because I wanted to talk a little bit about grooming. People think grooming is just about manipulation and coercion. It's also a weeding out process. It's a weeding out process to see how much someone can be exploited, what their vulnerabilities are, how do they get the most, how do they zap the most out of that human?

It is repulsive. It is inhuman, and I hope you remember that whenever you see the name Ghislaine Maxwell or Jeffrey Epstein, it's that they literally weed out people that they could suck the most out of, and almost always, almost always, like in rampant percentages. It is victims of childhood sexual abuse.

TAPPER: Yes, of course.

MICHAELS: People that have been abused before that have had their defensive system in their body hijacked to a degree that they don't see red flags. And that's where Jeffrey and Ghislaine were master manipulators. They looked for those, they specifically looked for those characteristics in someone.

TAPPER: Yes. In her memoir, Giuffre acknowledges why she does not name all the men to whom she says Epstein trafficked her, quote, while we need to be brave about naming our abusers, we also must protect ourselves. She added, quote, while I have been a daughter, a prisoner, a survivor, and a warrior, my most important role is that of a mother. First and foremost, I'm a parent and I won't put my family at risk if I can help it, unquote. Obviously, she took her own life. She died by suicide in April.

But, I mean, I think this also does explain why a lot of people have not named the many, many men who were -- beneficiaries is the wrong word, but who were part of this disgusting operation.

MICHAELS: Yes. Something that I say all the time in my advocacy is that people keep asking survivors, you know, to report to say names and my question to you is, who's making it safe for us to do that? No one.

TAPPER: By the way, Virginia Giuffre named all those names that she did name in the book to the Justice Department. They have them right now.

MICHAELS: Exactly.

TAPPER: They could interview whatever this prime minister is right now.

MICHAELS: Survivors have done the right thing. They have put in FBI statements. I've made a victim statement. We have done -- we've gone above and beyond what is expected. And now it is the Justice Department's turn.

And believe me, I know that some people feel this is political. It's becoming -- it's become more political. It should never be political. It's justice and it's personal for a lot of us. So, I think that what we need people to remember is we need the people that are the ones that are supposed to be protecting us. They are the ones that are supposed to be working hard right now, not us.

TAPPER: Yes. Jess Michaels, always an honor to have you. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. MICHAELS: Thank you so much for having me.

TAPPER: We're just two weeks away from a crucial election in the Commonwealth of Virginia. And next we're going to go live to a rally happening tonight for one of the main candidates. Our political panel's going to break down what's at stake in that race.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:00]

TAPPER: In our Politics Lead, you know, it's election season, so you know what, I like the election jams. It's nice. Somebody out there put words to it, you know?

Two weeks from tonight, polls will be getting ready to close in the high-stakes gubernatorial race in the Commonwealth of Virginia. The most recent polls show that the Democrat, former Congresswoman Abigail Spanberger, holds a lead just outside the margin of error. Spanberger is about to hold a rally in Charlottesville, the Jefferson Theater. That's where we find our own Jeff Zeleny.

Jeff, what's the feeling on the ground with two weeks to go there?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, a year after the last presidential election, the races in Virginia and New Jersey always are a test of the political mood. And so far talking with so many voters here tonight, really, over the past few weeks, Democrats are feeling optimistic, at least here in Virginia. They believe that the 708,000 people who have already cast early votes is going to be beneficial for them.

However, Democrats are also very well aware that they are in a rebuilding era. They believe that Abigail Spanberger, a former congresswoman, she ran in 20 18, one of the examples of that blue wave that came in after the first Trump midterm back in 2018, they believe that she is well-positioned to be elected governor.

Interestingly, up in New Jersey, the only other state to have a governor's race in this off-year election, Mikie Sherrill, a member of Congress, she also won back in 2018. Both women have, national security credentials, a helicopter pilot service in this CIA, they are trying to effectively shape the Democratic Party going forward.

Of course, Republicans are trying to show that the Trump policies actually are doing well. But, Jake, here in Virginia, a wild card perhaps that could not have been scripted is the federal government shutdown. Some 300,000 federal workers live in Virginia. Of course, many more government contractors, military members as well, that is playing a significant role in this race.

So, for all of the attempts to sort of downplay the White House has tried to distance itself from the Virginia race, there is no distancing itself from the federal shutdown. So, two weeks from tonight, the first election results will be coming in, as you said, and Democrats feeling optimistic, at least here in Virginia, a tighter race in New Jersey. Jake?

TAPPER: All right. Jeff Zeleny in beautiful Charlottesville, Virginia, thanks so much.

My panel joins me now. And, former Republican Congressman Charlie Dent, speaking of the White House trying to distance themselves from the Virginia governor's race, President Trump appeared to throw his support behind the Republican nominee, Lieutenant Governor Winsome Earle-Sears.

[18:45:16]

It was this weekend, but it did -- it was not an official endorsement. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think the Republican candidate is very good, and I think she should -- she should win because the Democrat candidates are a disaster.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Why not give a full-throated endorsement?

CHARLIE DENT (R-PA), FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: Well, probably because she's not going to win. I mean, that's the -- full stop. It just strikes me that that race is likely to go to Spanberger. I just don't see how she loses it at this point, particularly in the middle of a government shutdown where I suspect more people in northern Virginia and probably the Tidewater region are probably blaming the president more for this shutdown than they are the Democrats.

So, I don't think that the Republican candidate has a shot at winning this thing. I really don't. And, and that's why Trump is keeping his distance.

TAPPER: So, Obama, President Obama did endorse Spanberger. And whenever I bring up Mamdani as the future of the Democratic Party, people like Rahm Emanuel immediately change the subject to Mikie Sherrill and Abigail Spanberger, more moderate women with a national security credentials.

Do you -- do you think the Democratic Party is more Spanberger or Mamdani right now?

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: I think that New York is it's own place, and I think Rahm Emanuel, when he, you know, pivots to centrist, there's -- there's a reason for that.

I just want to say, rule number one in campaigning is you don't ask someone to come in like Barack Obama and campaign for you if you don't think it's going to help. And to the flip side, you know, I actually think in the Virginia race, Trump may also be helping Spanberger because he may be turning out Democrats to vote for her. TAPPER: Speaking of the debate over the future of the party, there is

this interesting Democratic senate candidate in Maine named Graham Platner. But this video surfaced. It appears to show him shirtless. Well, it definitely shows him shirtless, but he appears to have a Totenkopf symbol tattooed on his chest. If for those of you who don't know what that is, it's the particular image of a skull and crossbones. I think, as well, used by the SS.

He was asked about this on "Pod Save America". His response was, I am not a secret Nazi. This campaign, by the way, is still cleaning up resurfaced Reddit posts where he spewed offensive views on Black people, other social media posts.

He's talked about like how he had PTSD after he got back. He's a -- he's a veteran.

Will he survive this, do you think?

XOCHITL HINOJOSA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'm not sure he will, but he does need to look himself in the mirror and just figure out whether or not he wants to continue. There's a lot at stake when it comes to the Senate. And I feel like Senate candidates are very different than gubernatorial candidates.

We that -- it -- it could potentially mean that whether or not Democrats take a hold of the Senate next year. And I think that one lesson from this is voucher candidates. And if you have not done the opposition research and dug up all the things on yourself, then --

TAPPER: You don't have to dig if it's just a Nazi tattoo on.

HINOJOSA: Yeah. I mean, yeah, you don't really have to. You don't -- you don't have to look in the mirror. You don't have to dig much, right?

But we are a year out from this race. Democrats do not want to be talking about this person as their nominee in one year. I can guarantee you. And so, I think Democrats really need to think through. Is this the -- is this the money we're going to put behind? Is this man or do we need to find an alternative at this point?

TAPPER: Yeah, I will say that the any time you have to look up German insignia, symbols on Google, that's not -- that's not a good sign.

HINOJOSA: That's not good for Democrats.

TAPPER: "The New York Times" is reporting that the president wants the Department of Justice to pay him $230 million in compensation for all the criminal cases brought against him. He was asked about this in the oval office not long ago. He said maybe the money would go to the new ballroom. Maybe he would give the money to charity. This was a complaint that he made when he was a citizen, not a president.

What do you think?

DENT: Well, I'm almost speechless that the president of United States is asking that taxpayers pay him nearly a quarter billion dollars for legal fees? We were talking earlier. Maybe Jim Comey is going to ask to be paid, too, after his case gets tossed. And every other person who's ever been prosecuted by DOJ and was not convicted might ask for the same thing.

But it just takes a lot of cheek to ask the people who work for you to approve a quarter billion dollar payment to the president. I mean --

TAPPER: Yeah.

HINOJOSA: Not even the people that work for you. It's potentially even the law firm, the people who wrote the matter for the complaint before the Justice Department. Yeah.

TAPPER: His former attorneys now run the Justice Department.

HINOJOSA: And you all know how this works. Whenever you have an attorney and they are filing something like this for you, they get a cut of the check, too. And so, I think that there is a real question about why hasn't Todd Blanche recused himself?

[18:50:03]

GANGEL: Right.

HINOJOSA: And also, would he get a cut of this payment if the Justice Department actually decides to pay him this money?

GANGEL: And one thing we know, Todd Blanche, is not going to say no to Donald Trump. I spoke to a former very senior justice official earlier today who said he really thinks that this may already be in the works. And to your point, it's not always public.

HINOJOSA: Yeah. The only way to learn of this is through a FOIA request. And so, if there is a settlement, the Justice Department won't say anything. Trump may potentially he can't hold anything in. And so, he may potentially say something. So, the only way to move forward with this and to actually make it public is through FOIA.

One example of this is through the child separation matter. There were a number of complaints that were filed in claims against DHS, the Justice Department settled those claims. Those were not public matters. Some of the attorneys came out and said, yes, we have received money from the federal government, but these claims are normally behind closed doors and not public.

TAPPER: Always interesting. Thanks, guys. Appreciate it.

What on earth is going on at Indiana University? A new task force is being launched after the school decided to stop printing the student newspaper, and the school fired the newspaper's advisor. Hear how the school's leaders are trying to defend themselves against allegations of censorship.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:55:53]

TAPPER: In the national lead today, a dispute between Indiana University and its student newspaper is raising concerns of censorship. This year, I.U. cut funding for the print edition of "The Indiana Daily Student", except for certain special editions.

Ahead of the homecoming paper, administrators told the advisor to the paper, Jim Rodenbush, to direct students to not publish any news articles in the paper. Rodenbush chose to not comply. Then the university fired him.

The university barred "The Daily Student" from releasing its planned homecoming edition, and then it cut future special publications. A statement from the Indiana University chancellor says the school, quote, "has not and will not interfere with their editorial judgment, unquote." The university says that the print paper is being cut as part of a shift to digital, with student journalists still able to publish news online.

Joining us now is Gary Green from the Student Press Law Center.

Gary, the university is framing this as an economic decision to try to transition "The Daily Student" from paper to online. They're quite adamant that this is only about method of delivery. If students still have a place to publish news, investigations, sports, editorial content and more, why do so many students affiliated with the paper feel that there's something more nefarious happening here?

GARY GREEN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, STUDENT PRESS LAW CENTER: Jake, I appreciate you bringing attention to this story. The timing of this is really what's at issue. The fact that they have told the students they can't have any news in their newspaper. And when the students push back on that, they fire their adviser and cancel the rest of their pre-agreed upon publications for the rest of the semester. That's what the real issue is here.

Yeah, they have access to publish their news on their website, but the university can't -- cannot tell them what they can and cannot put into their printed products.

TAPPER: On Tuesday, the media school dean announced the formation of a task force, which Indiana university says will bring together faculty, staff, students and alumni to develop recommendations, ensuring both the editorial independence and financial sustainability of student media at I.U., unquote. They have not yet announced who's going to be on the task force.

What recommendations do you have for I.U. to ensure that current and future students are satisfied with the direction of the student paper, of student media independence and no censorship there?

GREEN: We recommend that they absolutely must include "Indiana Daily Student" student leadership, professional staff journalism faculty, alumni, and maybe even they include Mark Cuban, who's been very vocal about his donations to the student newspaper to make sure that his donations are being used the way he intended. You've got to have outside key stakeholders as part of that conversation, but it's got to include the "Indiana Daily Student" staff leadership as well.

TAPPER: "The Indiana Daily Student" did publish a special edition last week, but they didn't do it by themselves. The publisher for Purdue University's fully independent school paper, "The Exponent", shared on Twitter that their paper stepped in to print and deliver special editions to the I.U. campus last week in the name of student journalism solidarity. Obviously, Purdue and I.U. have a long-standing rivalry.

What do you think it signals about the future of student journalism? That these students decide to put aside any rivalry to support the mission?

GREEN: I think it shows that student media is absolutely under attack, and they're trying to stand together and support each other. Many of these student newspapers are producing really high-level accountability journalism on their own institutions. And because of that, they've -- they have drawn the ire of their administrators. And so, it's great to see these two rival news organizations stand up and support each other so they can continue this really important work.

TAPPER: Keep up the good fight, student journalists out there. We see you.

Gary Green, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

You can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, Threads, X, Bluesky and on TikTok @jaketapper. You can follow the show on X @TheLeadCNN.

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ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now. We're going to give you a little extra time there, Erin.