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The Lead with Jake Tapper
White House Demolishing East Wing For Trump's Ballroom; Rep. Pete Aguilar, (D-CA), Is Interviewed About White House East Wing Demolition, Shutdown, Federal Workers; Federal Workers Line Up For Food Bank As Shutdown Hits Week 3; Trump Cancels Anticipated Meeting With Putin, Says "It Just Didn't Feel Right To Me"; Ukraine: 6 Killed, Including Baby In Russian Aerial Onslaught; Trump Pick For Watchdog Lacks GOP Support, Withdraws Nomination. Aired 5-6p ET
Aired October 22, 2025 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
And just has to go after Mamdani directly. KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Yes, that's why he appeared here in The Arena,
actually. He was talking about the police in particular. And there are -- there are weaknesses, right? But it does not seem to have made a difference so far.
All right, guys, thank you very much for being here. I really appreciate it. Thanks to all of you at home for joining us as well. If you miss any of today's show, don't forget you can always catch up by listening to The Arenas podcast. Just scan the QR code, it's right there and you can follow along wherever you get your podcasts.
You can also follow the show on X and Instagram at thearenacnn.
Jake Tapper is standing by for the lead. Hi, Jake. JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Hey, Kasie. We'll see you back in "The Arena"
tomorrow.
HUNT: See you soon. [17:00:36]
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Did the residents of 1,600 Pennsylvania Avenue check with the homeowners association before tearing down the entire East Wing? The Lead starts right now.
Dramatic new images today showing that this iconic portion of the People's House is now rubble, even though President Trump had previously said the structure would not change with the addition of the ballroom. Plus, hey, how's that peace process going between Russia and Ukraine? Well, a Russian drone hit a Ukrainian kindergarten overnight, part of a large scale attack across the country this morning. And now NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte is huddling with President Trump working to drive an end to this war. I'll speak with Mr. Rutte fresh out of that meeting.
And Trump's push to double the ICE workforce has something of a problem. Apparently, one third of the new recruits probably couldn't pass your average high school gym class, that's according to a report in the Atlantic. One career ICE official telling the outlet, quote, "it's pathetic."
Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. We're going to start in our politics lead with new dramatic images of the White House East Wing, now mostly demolished, once home to the first lady's offices, being torn down before our eyes to make way for a 90,000 square foot ballroom. Something that the president himself insisted would not be sacrificed because of the new addition. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It won't interfere with the current building. It won't be. It'll be near it, but not touching it. And pays total respect to the existing building, which I'm the biggest fan of.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Well, the actions on the ground these last couple days, completely negating those words. The entire existence of the East Wing is going to make way for that ballroom. Preservationists are calling what's happening a historic mistake. They're urging an immediate halt to the work. CNN's Tom Foreman has filed this report on the growing outrage and the fate of the East Wing of the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As the historic East Wing of the White House is ripped down, outrage is piling up, with preservationists saying they are deeply concerned new construction will overwhelm the White House itself. And former First Lady Hillary Clinton posting, it's not his house, it's your house, and he's destroying it.
SHAWN MCCREESH, W.H. REPORTER, NEW YORK TIMES: The reader response has been overwhelming. I mean, people are e-mailing me every five minutes. There's something about these images that have really upset people.
FOREMAN (voice-over): The White House communications director is dismissing the worries as pearl clutching by losers. And President Trump has not even blinked.
TRUMP: You probably hear the beautiful sound of construction to the back. You hear that sound? Oh, that's music to my ears. I love that sound. Other people don't like it. I think when I hear that sound, it reminds me of money.
FOREMAN (voice-over): After planting massive flag poles outside the White House, slathering the Oval Office in gold trim, and paving over the legendary Rose Garden, Trump is relocating the office of the first lady and more, and demolishing the space to fulfill his longtime dream of installing a vast ballroom, bigger than a football field, able to hold about 1,000 people. In an architectural rendering, the $200 million add on looks like something from the French palace of Versailles, or, as many critics have noted, a salute to Trump's Florida home, Mar-a-Lago. Trump's allies seem fine with that. And on Capitol Hill, they echo the president's claim that the cost will be covered by private donors. REP. STEVE SCALISE (R-LA), HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER: It's not even taxpayer money. It's going to be a permanent renovation that'll enhance the White House for all future presidents.
FOREMAN (voice-over): Parts of the White House have been extensively renovated before, with the input of presidential families. But this time, the apparent lack of significant outside oversight, the shifting details, and Trump's open disdain for government itself is plaguing author Robert Arnold, who captured the feelings of many on threads.
ROBERT L. ARNOLD, AUTHOR "DEFIANCE TIL DEATH": It feels like the whole story of his goddamn term. Break it, sell it, lie about it, blame the press, move on before the dust settles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN (on camera): Put aside for a moment the fact that the government is shut down and there are deep economic worries for many people around this country who voted for Trump to address those worries. The bottom line was reflected in the comments of Mr. Arnold there and so many others. They keep saying this is the people's house, you, Donald Trump, are just a renter and you don't get to do all this. But there's no way for them to stop it right now. Jake.
[17:05:18]
TAPPER: That's right. Tom Foreman, thanks so much.
Let's talk about this with Lindsay Chervinsky. She's a presidential historian and executive director at the George Washington Presidential Library.
So the images we've seeing here are, first of all, shocking. There was notification this was going to happen. And they're also, to some people, disturbing when you think of a historical landmark like the White House. It is true presidents have renovated the White House before. What was your reaction when you saw these images?
LINDSAY CHERVINSKY, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Well, you're right, it is shocking. You know what makes the White House the best home field advantage in the world is that it has such incredible history in its walls. And that's why presidents love it, because they are standing in the space of Lincoln and FDR and Theodore Roosevelt. And so to see a space that has seen so many incredible visitors go through it and seen so much history in its walls torn down is a surprise.
TAPPER: When it comes to notification of the public or Congress, when it comes to planning that everybody knew about, how does this demolition of the East Wing compare to previous revamps also in scale and symbolism? CHERVINSKY: Well, it's pretty massive. The two biggest renovations, of
course, occurred after The War of 1812, when the White House was just a shell of itself after burning down from British troops. And then, of course, Truman's renovation. And this was important because when Harry Truman was in the White House, additional floors had been added without shoring up the strength of the walls. And so at one point, the Truman family piano was quite literally falling through the ceiling of the second floor.
So everyone understood that this was a renovation of necessity. And yet they were super to preserve every element of history they could, even taking apart a bulldozer and reinstalling it inside the building so they didn't have to tear down the walls.
TAPPER: The East Wing has, of course, historically been the first lady's domain, a space tied to diplomacy and culture and soft power. What's your reaction? Do you think it says anything about this presidency that the entire space is being torn down and replaced with a ballroom?
CHERVINSKY: Well, you know, Betty Ford referred to the East Wing as the heart of the White House because it was where most people come through. Even until just a couple weeks ago, if you'd had a tour of the White House, that was where you were going to enter the building. If you went there for a holiday party, that was where you would see the first Christmas decorations. And so it meant so much to so many people. That space was where most people had accessibility.
And so for the People's House to no longer have that element, it is a big change.
TAPPER: The White House has always reflected the individual president's vision of American power, from Jefferson's colonnades to Roosevelt's West Wing, what do you think this 90,000 square foot ballroom, in addition to the paving over of the Rose Garden to become something like a Mar-a-Lago patio, what do you think this says about Donald Trump's vision of the presidency and how he wants to be remembered?
CHERVINSKY: Well, I think that these spaces are obviously spaces for socialization, for hosting of huge events. And it does seem that is what the president enjoys doing the most. And it's not that other presidents haven't enjoyed having state dinners or having large receptions, but they always previously wanted to do so in the East Room because it called upon the ghosts of those who had been there before. And it was a reminder that the office is so much bigger than just one person. And I think these are a reflection that I think Trump really wants to be remembered as a person who changed the White House as opposed to the latest in a long line of presidents.
TAPPER: Lindsey Chervinsky, thank you so much.
Let's talk about this now with California Congressman Pete Aguilar. He's chair of the House Democratic Caucus.
Before I get into your opinion about what's going on, was Congress given any notification? Did you have any idea that the East Wing was going to be demolished?
REP. PETE AGUILAR (D-CA), HOUSE DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS CHAIR: No, and not to my knowledge that any committees of jurisdiction received any warning or advance notice. Obviously, as you mentioned, huge environmental concerns, historical concerns. These are things that should take time and months and should have reports and studies done. I'm a member of the Appropriations Committee. We're not authorizing any money going to this as was mentioned in your reporting.
But this is just absolutely shocking that critical events in our nation's history have been signed into law, special moments in our country's history all being demolished because this president has vanity issues and wants it to look like something else.
TAPPER: Now, it does seem as though, because of actions taken by Lyndon Johnson, the White House, the president had the power to do this without notifying anybody, without telling the public. But what is your reaction to the fact that this is happening against what the president said a few months ago? He said that the building was not going to be touched with the addition of the ballroom. That's obviously -- that's quite a touching that's going on.
[17:10:17]
AGUILAR: It's quite a touching that's going on. But is this surprising to the American public? This is a guy who said he would honor and cherish Medicaid and then the cuts up trillion dollars from it. So this is somebody who has a history of not telling the truth in the court of law as well as to the American public. So nothing is surprising at this point.
It's sad, but it's not surprising.
TAPPER: I want to talk to you about the government shutdown. It's now the second longest lapse in funding, 22 days. There are 1.4 million federal workers right now who are working without pay or they're furloughed. CNN heard from a number of them at a D.C. area food drive specifically being offered for federal workers. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROLANDA WILLIAMS, SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION EMPLOYEE: Can't believe I'm here. You know, because you always thought that getting a government job or, you know, a federal job, that that's security.
SUMMER KERKSICK, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE EMPLOYEE: With my rent due next week, I could take anything I can get at this point. I haven't gotten a paycheck this month. So the free groceries is very important, very helpful. Yes, you got to save every dime at this point. You know, with rent, car note, car insurance, student loans, those are not stopping.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Just a reminder, these are people who work for the federal government, gainfully employed, work hard now at a food bank because they're not being paid. When people call your office, whether your constituents or just because you're in Democratic leadership, what do you tell them? What are they supposed to do?
AGUILAR: We tell them the fastest way to help people to ensure that federal employees get their paychecks is to end this reckless Republican shutdown. And that means Republicans have to come to the table and they have to work with us on addressing the issues of the day, including this health care crisis that they've created. Our heart goes out and our heart aches for these federal employees. We've had service members, brave service members who have gone to food banks before this nightmare and before this shutdown. Service members who are having a tough time making ends meet.
That happens outside of Camp Pendleton. That happens all over this country.
TAPPER: Yes.
AGUILAR: Republicans continue to assault these food nutrition programs as well throughout the country in their big ugly law.
TAPPER: Just to push back a bit, it's Democrats that have caused the shutdown because Democrats in the Senate didn't vote for the continuing resolution. I know you're doing it because you want the Obamacare premiums to be extended past the end of the year. But is the pain we're seeing right now from these people worth preventing whatever pain you're trying to prevent in the future with the Obamacare premiums not being extended?
AGUILAR: The American people are facing pain. This health care crisis is pain. When they're getting these premium notifications this month, this week, this hour, when they go to their mailbox saying that their prices are going to go up, that their health care is going to go up by $1,200, that's pain. What we're trying to do is help the American public. We're looking out for our communities.
This is a health care crisis that we have to address. The American public is frustrated by this. We understand that we need to lower the costs. And in order to do that, Republicans need to come to the table and work with us.
TAPPER: All right, Congressman Aguilar, thanks so much.
Let's go to the breaking news. President Trump is meeting right now with the NATO Secretary General, Mark Rutte. They're in the Oval Office. Let's listen in. MARK RUTTE, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: Basically, the weapons from the
U.S. being delivered to Ukraine, paid for by allies, and Europeans coming together to discuss how can we sustain Ukraine post the peace deal. All of this is evidence of your leadership of pushing the Europeans and the Canadians to do more to deliver and to equalize in spending with the U.S. So on all of this, and today, we will talk more on how we can really bring Ukraine to the next phase and get this terrible war and all the bloodshed ended. TRUMP: And as you know, we are going to be making a big trip next
week. Some of you are going with us. We'll be going to Malaysia, South Korea and Japan. In South Korea, I'll be meeting with President Xi of China. We'll have a pretty long meeting scheduled.
We can work out a lot of our questions and our doubts and our tremendous assets together. So we look forward to that. I think something will work out. We have a very good relationship, but that will be a big one. We canceled the meeting with President Putin. It just -- it didn't feel right to me. It didn't feel like we were going to get to the place we have to get, so I canceled it. But we'll do it in the future. But next week, we'll be with many of you in those locations that I told you then it's back to Washington.
So thank you very much, everybody. Yes, please. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, can you tell us a little bit about
why you're elevating sanctions against Russia right now? What's the -- what -- TRUMP: I just felt it was time. We've waited a long time. I thought
that we'd go long before the Middle East.
[17:15:01]
And Mark, as you know, we did the Middle East plus seven. So we did seven --
RUTTE: Yes.
TRUMP: -- different wars from --
RUTTE: Absolutely.
TRUMP: -- Pakistan and India to so many.
RUTTE: Azerbaijan, Armenia --
TRUMP: Which was --
RUTTE: Africa.
TRUMP: -- which they said was impossible to do.
RUTTE: Yes.
TRUMP: All these wars I did. And the one that we have left, we have one left, it will be nine. We have one left. And I think we'll get that done, too. I think we're on our way to getting it done.
RUTTE: Absolutely. We have to.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President. Mr. President.
TRUMP: Please.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, do you have a timeline for when you think the story is going to be over because of your leadership?
TRUMP: No, I don't have a timeline. You can't have. In war, it's hard to have a timeline. You know, so many things happen in war.
Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What about Tomahawk missiles? Putin is definitely -- TRUMP: Well, the problem with the Tomahawk that a lot of people don't
know, it'll take a minimum of six months, usually a year, to learn how to use them. They're highly complex. So the only way a Tomahawk is going to be shot is if we shot it, and we're not going to do that. But there is a tremendous learning curve with the Tomahawk. It's a very powerful weapon, very accurate weapon, and maybe that's what makes it so complex.
But it will take a year -- it takes a year of intense training to learn how to use it. And we know how to use it. And we're not going to be teaching other people. It will be -- it's too far out into the future.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, Mr. President --
TRUMP: Yes, please.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Inaudible) Mr. President that you said as recently as yesterday that you still believe that Putin wants to end the war.
TRUMP: Yes, I do. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then today, he took this step to ratchet the
sanctions and put more pressure on him.
TRUMP: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What else are you going to do to encourage him to get there? Or can you explain why you do believe that he wants peace?
TRUMP: Yes, that's a good question. Today is a very big day in terms of what we're doing. Look, these are tremendous sanctions. These are very big. Those are against their two big oil companies.
And we hope that they won't be on for long. We hope that the war will be settled. We just answered having to do with the various forms of missiles and everything else that we're looking at. But we don't think that's going to be necessary. We would like to see them just take the line that has been formed over quite a long period of time and go and let's -- you know, go home.
Last week, they had almost 8,000 soldiers killed. Many Russians were killed last week. Many Ukrainians were killed last week. We think it's ridiculous, and we'd like to have it end.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why do you think he want peace, though? Why do you still believe that?
TRUMP: I think they want peace. I think they both want peace at this point. It's been -- you know, it's almost four years. You're going into four years. And if I were president, it never would have started. But, yes, it's time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President -- UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, on the shutdown, will you -- do
you plan to meet with Democrats before you head to Asia? And if not --
TRUMP: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- why not meet the Democrats? TRUMP: Well, I think it's a shame that it's shut down because we have
the greatest economy. As you were saying before, we have the greatest economy in the world right now, by far, the United States. We have almost 18, now -- we're 17, now it's $18 trillion being poured into our country and it's no time for shutdowns. I don't think it's affecting what we're doing, but it's too bad for a lot of people. We have a lot of good people that aren't working right now that should be.
And it's because the Democrats want to try and renegotiate a deal that they had negotiated. They want $1.5 trillion given to illegal immigrants who came into the country. And it's going to hurt the healthcare of citizens of our country that have been paying into it, that have been working hard for it, that really deserve it. So we're never going to do that. It's not going to happen.
And I will tell you, there are a lot of good Democrats that really want to make a deal. And I think -- all we need is five Democrats because we have great support on the Republican side. So I think we need five Democrats and there are a lot of them that want to make a deal. So I think at some point, at some point common sense will prevail.
Yes, go ahead. You can finish up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On the drug boat strike in the eastern Pacific --
TRUMP: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- can you explain to us what that was about, how it was conducted?
TRUMP: Yes, sure. Well, they had one today in the Pacific. And the way I look at it, every time I look, because it is violent and it is very -- it's amazing that the weaponry, everyone -- you know, they have these boats that go 45, 50 miles an hour on the water. And when you look at the accuracy and the power -- look, we have the greatest military in the world. We have the greatest weapons in the world.
And you see a little bit of it there. One shot, everyone dead center. And the only way you can't feel bad about it is you realize that you won't feel badly about it is you realize that every time you see that happen, you're saving 25,000 American lives.
Every one of those boats that gets knocked out is saving 25,000American lives, not to mention the torn up families all over the country. And whenever I see that, I say to myself, I just saved 25,000 lives. I will say that there are very few boats traveling on the water right now. Actually, that includes fishing boats, that includes any other kind of boat, but there are very few boats traveling underwater. So now they'll come in by land at a lesser -- to a lesser extent, and they will be hit on land also.
(CROSSTALK)
[17:20:14]
TRUMP: Go ahead in the back, please.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible) illegal authority (inaudible) --
TRUMP: Yes, we do. We have legal authority, right? We're allowed to do that. And if we do buy land, we may go back to Congress. But we have -- this is a national security problem.
They killed 300,000 people last year. Drugs. These drugs coming in. They killed 300,000Americans last year. And that gives you legal authority.
We have a national security. Really, I will say, when you look at the people we're dealing with and we know them, we know the people coming in, we know the boats, we know everything else, we're allowed to do it. It's international waters. If we don't do it, we're going to lose hundreds of thousands of people.
Now they'll be coming in by land a little bit more because they're not coming in by boat anymore. There are no boats in the water. There are no more boats. We know the boat almost immediately. You know, it's pretty unusual when you see somebody with a fishing rod and five engines on the back of the boat, you know, you don't need that to go fishing.
Wait, wait, wait. And we will hit them very hard when they come in by land. And they haven't experienced that yet. But now we're totally prepared to do that. We'll probably go back to Congress and explain exactly what we're doing when we come to the land.
We don't have to do that. But I think, Marco, I'd like to do that. You may respond to that if you want.
MARCO RUBIO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, I mean, the question is, bottom line, these are drug boats. If people want to stop seeing drug boats blow up, stop sending drugs to the United States.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But does it matter if it's in the United States?
RUBIO: Well, these are all in international waters. The boat --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you do a strike in the United States or if there was a -- RUBIO: Well, that's a different matter. Now you're talking about a law
enforcement matter. In this particular case, they are people traveling on international waters headed towards the United States with hostilities in mind, which includes flooding our country with dangerous, deadly drugs. And they're going to be stopped. And that's what's happening.
And in the case last week, you saw there was a submarine. It was a submarine. It was a submersible. That's a drug boat all the way through. We know what these boats are.
The President just said it. We tracked them from the very beginning. We know who's on them, who they are, where they're coming from, what they have on them. And you know, if you're running drug boats, you're in -- you're in grave danger.
TRUMP: And drug usage is way down. And drug usage coming from the sea, they call it ocean drugs. A little term that they use, the ocean drugs, is very close to nonexistent right now. I wouldn't want to be in one of those boats heading away. You know, they're driving happily to destroy the lives of people and they end up -- that's the end of them.
So the ocean drugs and the sea drugs, drugs by sea, they call it also, that's almost down to nothing, as you can imagine. So they continue to come in by land at a little bit less because they see something is going to happen. They don't like it. They see something -- and they're right. Something very serious is going to happen, the equivalent of what's happening by sea.
And we're going to Congress just to tell them what we're doing, just to keep them informed. But we have to do it for national security. We have to do it to save lives.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Secretary Bessent said that Vladimir Putin had not been honest and forthright in his talks. Just wondering if you could tell us a little bit more about your feelings about that. And also, if I may, to Mark Rutte, just your thoughts on whether Ukraine should get Tomahawks. Thank you.
TRUMP: Well, I think that in terms of honesty, the only thing I can say is every time I speak with Vladimir, I have good conversations. And then they don't go anywhere, they just don't go anywhere, so in that sense. But now, look, he's fighting a war. He's in a war that's two very competent sides and that's the way war is. You never know with war.
But I would say that it's time, it's time to make a deal. A lot of people are dying. You know, they're not Americans, but they're people, they're souls. And they're dying by the thousands. Worst since World War II.
And we really should stop it.
RUTTE: To your other question, the -- TRUMP: Yes, please.
RUTTE: Sorry. To your other question, this has been consistent from this president. When we first met again after your reelection in Mar- a-Lago in November, you said we have to stop the killing. This is close to your heart --
TRUMP: Yes.
RUTTE: -- and this is your vision. That's why this war needs to end. When it comes Tomahawks, whatever system is up to individual nations to decide whatever they want to supply to Ukraine. NATO doesn't take a position. But I can assure you this, when the president called me in July and said, we want to again send weapons into Ukraine, paid for by our allies, the Canadians and the Europeans, that was an important moment.
And that is taking place. And the ambassador myself, we are working hard at this already a couple of billion dollars of weaponry into Ukraine from the U.S. paid for by allies. So, I'm not going to comment on the Tomahawks. But when it comes to the U.S. and all the support for Ukraine, it is there and it is close to the president's heart and I noticed.
[17:25:07]
TRUMP: I will -- I will say this, and you know, Mark can say it better than anybody, the European nations and Canada have really pulled together, and it's beyond even that. I mean, it's --
RUTTE: Yes.
TRUMP: -- it's really beyond that.
RUTTE: Australians and New Zealanders --
TRUMP: Right.
RUTTE: -- Japan, they're all want to help.
TRUMP: You want to really add them up, we could really add them up. But NATO, basically, European and Canada and a lot of other nations, they've really band together. They are not happy about what's happening with Russia and Ukraine. They're not happy at all. Neither am I.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President --
TRUMP: Jeff.
JEFF: Sir, just changing this topic slightly. I see you've got the --
TRUMP: Yes.
JEFF: -- model of the White House and the ballroom. Many people were surprised that the entire East Wing is being demolished because you had said initially that the ballroom would just touch or would not.
TRUMP: Yes. Well, certain areas are --
JEFF: What happened?
TRUMP: Yes. Certain --
JEFF: Can you tell us what happen?
TRUMP: Certain areas are being left. We determined that after really a tremendous amount of study with some of the best architects in the world, we determined that really knocking it down, trying to use a little section. You know, the East Wing was not much. There was not much left from the original. It was over the course of 100 years, it was changed.
The columns were removed, and it was a much different building. Then a story was added on. In 1948, 1949, there was a story added on which was not particularly nice. And the building was very much changed from what it was original. It was never thought of as being much.
It was a very small building. And rather than allowing that to hurt, a very expensive, beautiful building that, frankly, they've been after for years. You have that, I brought these along so people could see. But it's, you know, there's a relative -- nobody has actually seen anything quite like it. I think it will be one of the great ballrooms anywhere in the world.
It's about $300 million. It's set to do many, many things, including meetings of foreign leaders, including the honoring of foreign leaders. You can see this. This is a plan. If it's got tables, so that you honor a foreign leader, we have a proper space.
Right now we have a space that, with tables, holds about 79 people. And this is a proper kind of a thing. Now, what the White House was doing, as you know, as they were putting tents out on the lawn, this is an interior shot of the ballroom. I think there will be nothing like it. And it's being paid for 100 percent by me and some friends of mine, donors to it.
The government is paying absolutely nothing. We're also working with the military on it because they want to make sure everything is perfect. And the military is very much involved in this. They want to make sure everything is absolutely beautiful.
You can see the kind of interiors that we're talking about. That's an interior of the ballroom and it's the highest level. And you see it goes beautifully with the White House. I mean, the mix is beautiful.
So over the years, many presidents have made changes. This obviously would be the biggest change, but this was something they've wanted for at least 150 years. Many of you have gone to the events where they had, as an example, President Xi or they had, you know, a leader of one of the countries, including the King and the Queen from your favorite country --
RUTTE: Absolutely.
TRUMP: -- frankly. But where they'd be honored and there'd be in a tent out on the lawn and it would rain and it was a disaster. Brian's shaking his head, you know what I'm talking about. And so I thought I'd bring this out because this is going to be probably the finest ballroom ever built. And we're doing it. No cost to the country. It's being put -- the money is being put in by me and donors. Very great patriots, actually. And the spirit on the building of it is amazing. We are using little sections of footings and various other things, but that's sort of irrelevant. In order to do it properly, we had to take down the existing structure.
The way it was shown, it looked like were touching the White House. We don't touch the White House. That's a bridge, a glass bridge going from the White House to the ballroom. Then you get into the lobby of the ballroom and then you go into the magnificent, the main room. And it's something that has gotten incredible reviews.
JEFF: Just quickly following up on that -- just quickly following up on that, sir. I just want a quick follow up on that question. Your response to people who said that you why haven't been transparent enough about this?
TRUMP: I haven't been transparent?
JEFF: That some of your --
TRUMP: Really? I've shown -- I've shown this to everybody that would listen. Third rate reporters didn't see it because they didn't look. You're a third rate reporter, always have been.
JEFF: I just --
TRUMP: So third rate reporters didn't look. But anybody that asked, these pictures have been in newspapers. They've been all over the place. And you know, we're very proud of it. It's gotten great reviews. It's gotten really great reviews.
I think we've been more transparent than anybody's ever.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why do you believe, Mr. President, that the sanctions that you're announcing today will push Putin to the next --
TRUMP: Well, I don't know that they will. I think that they'll certainly have an impact. They're massive sanctions and sanctions on oil.
[17:30:02]
TRUMP: Well, I don't know that they will. I think that they'll certainly have an impact their -- their massive sanctions and sanctions on oil. The two biggest oil companies, among the biggest in the world. But they're Russian. They do a lot of oil. And hopefully it'll push -- hopefully he'll become reasonable and hopefully Zelenskyy will be reasonable, too. You know, it takes two to tango, as they say. And we're going to find out. They've had -- they hate each other. These two people hate each other. You know that better than anybody.
And it makes it more difficult than it should be. This should be easier to do. But the level of hatred between Zelenskyy and Putin is very substantial. TAPPER: All right, President Trump and the NATO Secretary General speaking there in the Oval Office, taking some questions on the White House renovations. U.S. boat strikes against individuals in the Caribbean, notably making some news on Russia and Ukraine. CNN's Kristen Holmes is at the White House. Matthew Chance is in Moscow for us. And Kristen, President Trump just mentioned new sanctions on Russia. He said he canceled the meeting with Putin because it just didn't feel right. He also expressed frustration that Putin would say something to him and then it wouldn't actually happen in terms of a cessation of hostilities.
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And Jake just to reiterate why this is so remarkable in this moment is that he's been saying this kind of back and forth for months now where he talks about Putin. He says he wants to end the war, which he also actually did say just now, but then grows frustrated, says that maybe he will give Tomahawks to Ukraine, maybe he will impose sanctions.
But this is the first time we're seeing him actually go through with this step. The Treasury Department post -- posting about these imposing sanctions on Russia's two largest oil companies. And these are not just secondary tariffs, which was the original threat that it was going to be sanctions on -- on countries like China or India who buy their oil from Russia. No, he is actually sanctioning the Russian oil companies.
He's saying that he hopes that this helps Putin come to his senses, that it hopes it helps him be reasonable. Now, it's still unclear why he believes why he says he believes that Putin wants an end to this war. But I do want to note one other part of this that was pretty striking because it's the first time that he's acknowledged that he told Zelenskyy that he would not be giving him those Tomahawk missiles, those long range missiles into Russia, saying here that it would be a minimum of six months to train somebody on how to actually use those missiles, saying the only way that we could actually utilize them would be for the United States to shoot them. And that was not something the United States was going to do.
This has obviously been a point of contention and was a huge point of contention in the meeting last Friday between the Ukrainian president and President Trump to the point where White House officials were not giving details about what happened in that meeting, other than some officials telling me background that it was very tense and at times uncomfortable.
So this is really the first time we've seen him take action on Russia. We've seen him threaten time and time again. Now he's actually gone through with that.
TAPPER: And Matthew, President Trump also reiterated that he thinks Russian leader Vladimir Putin wants peace. What are Russian officials saying about this proposed summit between the President and Putin in Budapest? And do you think these sanctions will change Putin's calculation in any way?
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, first of all, there's no question that Vladimir Putin wants peace. He wants an end to this war. The problem is he wants an end to the war on -- on his terms. So he wants all of the territory that is demanded, the four regions of Ukraine, including all of the Donbas, and he wants a certain amount of control over the foreign policy of Ukraine in the future.
And so it's a negotiation for what the terms of that -- of that piece are. I mean, certainly when it comes to the face to face meeting that was proposed a few days ago now was it by -- by President Trump in Budapest. The Russians have been very positive about it. I mean, they've got nothing to lose. I mean, every time Putin stands on the same stage as Vladimir -- as -- as Donald Trump, as President Trump, it's a diplomatic win for him because he can argue, he can show his own people, he can show the world that Russia's diplomatic isolation is -- is over or it's not real.
And so obviously he's going to go for a diplomatic meeting. The question is whether, you know, President Trump is the question that is now being answered. Is President Trump going to do something like he did in Alaska where he rolled out the red carpet? I was there. I saw this, as were you, and got virtually nothing in return from -- from President Putin. It seems that now the White House has reassessed that position. They're putting some pressure on -- on Putin by sanctioning the two biggest oil companies in the country. Oil, of course, is the most part of Russia's economy.
It's -- it's the lifeblood of the -- of the Russian war in Ukraine. It's what supplies all the cash for it. The other question about whether that will have any impact? Well, it certainly going to have an impact, but, you know, Russia has a track record of finding ways to get around sanctions. We don't know specifically what's being sanctioned, or at least I don't know specifically what's being sanctioned in these latest measures.
[17:35:16]
But, you know, Putin -- you know, Russia is one of the most sanctioned countries in the world and it finds a way of making it work. And so, you know, in the past, excuse me, sanctions have not changed policy. And, you know, they may not change policy on this occasion either, Jake.
TAPPER: All right. Matthew Chance in Moscow. Kristen Holmes at the White House, thanks. We're going to go to Ukraine for a new report. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TAPPER: And we're back in our World Lead. President Trump announcing moments ago that he has officially scrapped his summit with Russian leader Vladimir Putin. And remember, it has been two months since the U.S. literally and figuratively rolled out the red carpet for Russian leader Vladimir Putin in Anchorage, Alaska. We continue to see the Russian leader ignore President Trump's attempts to get a ceasefire. Ukrainian President Zelenskyy warned that Russia's massive attack on Ukraine today shows that Russia is not feeling sufficient pressure to take any steps to end the war.
[17:40:06]
Ukrainian officials say the wide scale drone, missile and fighter jet attacks killed six people, destroyed homes, knocked out power. Children were carried out of a kindergarten in Kharkiv after a Russian drone severely damaged the building, according to Zelenskyy. Zelenskyy says one person died there and the children were taken to shelters. In Kyiv at least two people were killed, 10 had to be rescued after drones bombarded a 16 story building.
In the Kyiv suburb of Brovary, a woman and her 6-month-old daughter and her 12-year-old niece were killed after Russian strikes engulfed their house in flames. Joining us now from the southern Ukrainian city of Kryvyi Rih, Aiden Stretch. Aidan is a writer for the Free Press. Aidan, obviously this war is taking a toll on virtually every Ukrainian, but specifically the cost when it comes to children is just horrific.
A baby and a 12-year-old were the victims of last night's Russian strikes. A kindergarten was hit. There are an estimated tens of thousands of Ukrainian children who have been essentially kidnapped by Russia. Tell us more about what you're learning about these kids.
AIDAN STRETCH, WRITER, FREE PRESS: It's great to be with you, Jake. And you're right, there's about 35,000 Ukrainian children currently being held in Russia. That's the upper bound estimate. And there's been an extremely effective lobbying campaign on behalf of the Ukrainian government to engage foreign partners on this issue, not only American counterparts, but foreign ministries in South Africa, Qatar, the Vatican to negotiate on this issue.
The problem is though, according to the people working closest on this matter, is that it's one thing to galvanize international support on -- about these children, it's another to actually locate and bring that -- bring them home. And that's becoming an increasingly challenging issue for several reasons. The first is that when we're talking about the kidnapped Ukrainian children in Russia, there's really three different groups. One is orphans or people who are held in Ukrainian orphanages who have now been transferred to Russian equivalent state owned facilities.
There's also Ukrainian children who are now in education or indoctrination camps across Russia. And then the third group is Ukrainian children who have been militarized and are now undergoing Russian military training. And so getting a hold of and cycling through all of this data and understanding which group different children made it into Russia through is an extremely challenging problem for the Ukrainian government and its counterparts.
TAPPER: As you know, the First Lady Melania Trump has been focusing on this. She recently secured the release of eight Ukrainian children by working directly with Vladimir Putin. But she didn't mention anything about them being abducted, rather, she used terms like displaced. The executive director of the Yale Research Lab says, while it's great that the First Lady is so focused on this "it is 35,000 kids, not seven or eight. It is kids who were taken as a war crime and kids who are being militarized and were abducted by a state not lost in the war. Language matters."
I -- I would imagine, I can't speak for the First Lady, I would imagine maybe she's using diplomatic language because she's trying to get more kids released. What do Ukrainians think of Melania's involvement? And what do you think about the language she uses?
STRETCH: It's -- it's extremely delicate issue here because you have, on the one hand, Melania Trump's diplomatic triangle with Vladimir Putin. You also have a bill introduced to the U.S. Congress that calls on Ukrainian abducted children being returned to their home as any component of a viable ceasefire. And so I think what you're seeing with the difference between Melania Trump's language and congressional Republicans and where Ukrainians are at on this issue, is that they want this to be very central to a ceasefire effort, even if it comes at the cost of Trump's efforts to bring Vladimir Putin to the table.
And so there's definitely a bit of a disconnect that you're seeing here between Ukrainian officials that have lobbied not only congressmen in the United States, but Christian evangelical organization, and then the White House, which has its own negotiating strategy.
TAPPER: So Volodymyr Zelenskyy discussed his conversations with Trump about freezing the front lines where they are, and obviously, that's very controversial, as you know. What do Ukrainians think about where the border should be?
STRETCH: So, right now, the -- the most recent statistics that we have are that 69 percent of Ukrainians favor a immediate ceasefire, maybe along the lines that you're describing, but some sort of negotiated settlement. That's up from 22 percent from when this war first began. Now, when I put that statistic in front of Ukrainian officials, soldiers, civilians, the response is always the same, which is, of course, we want an end to the bloodshed, we want an end to this war, but not on Vladimir Putin's terms, such that he would regroup, rearm and reinvade again.
[17:45:11]
And so the trouble that they see is a negotiated end to the settlement that doesn't involve pressuring Vladimir Putin more than Trump already has.
TAPPER: Aidan Stretch with the Free Press in Ukraine, thank you so much.
Trump is demanding that the Justice Department pay him $230 million for its past investigations into him. If the Justice Department pays that money, who actually is picking up that bill? That story's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TAPPER: Our Politics Lead now, lawmakers are now responding to Trump's claim that the U.S. Justice Department owes him $230 million for their past investigations into him. That $230 million bill, by the way, would be shouldered by you, taxpayers. Earlier today on Capitol Hill, our Manu Raju asked North Carolina Republican Senator Thom Tillis about this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): I think it's terrible optics, particularly right now we're talking about a quarter of a billion dollars transferring maybe to the President when we're in a shutdown posture. So it's at very best bad timing. But I think it's horrible optic.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Not all Republicans share Senator Tillis' concerns. Here's Alabama Republican Senator Tommy Tuberville.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TOMMY TUBERVILLE (R-AL): Taxpayers pay for a lot of things up there, about $2 trillion more than they should every year. But, you know, that's politics.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: My panel joins me now. Bryan Lanza, who do you agree with, Tillis or Tuberville there?
BRYAN LANZA, FORMER SR. ADVISER, TRUMP 2024 CAMPAIGN: I think it's pretty clear it's Tillis. I mean, it's -- the optics are terrible. The timing is terrible. I certainly see the case, you know, I was just on a flight yesterday with Mike Flynn. So I certainly see the case where some of us who went through the Smoller experience feel that we need some type of, you know, compensation for -- for in essence was someone's views as fake investigation.
I understand that. But at the time, you don't talk about $230 million as you're laying people off as the government is shut down. It's nothing I would recommend right now.
TAPPER: Democratic Senator John Fetterman of Pennsylvania. He's now responding to a report that the Democratic Party is plotting to primary him and have him replaced when he runs for reelection in 2028. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[17:50:01]
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN (D-PA): I really could care less about a race that's years away. How much more -- I'm only primarily concerned about the 2 million Pennsylvanians that depend on SNAP to feed themselves and their families. I'm absolutely worried about paying the military and Capitol Police and -- and opening our government open, and that's what I'm really concerned about.
(END VIDEO CLIP) TAPPER: What -- what's your take on the plan to oust Fetterman, who is certainly a thorn in the side of his party sometimes, although I think he votes Democratic, like, 90, 95 percent of the time.
KATE BEDINGFIELD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, I think plan to oust is a little strong. I mean, look, the Democratic Party is in a moment where it is searching for identity. It is thinking about reinvention. I'm actually somebody who doesn't think that competitive primaries in this moment are a bad thing for the Democratic Party. I think if there are others in Pennsylvania who think they would better represent Pennsylvania's interests, then they should run against him.
I think there's reason to have some concern about when we've seen staff, former Fetterman staff, talk about their concerns about his health. So I don't -- I think -- I think it is perfectly appropriate for Democrats in Pennsylvania to -- to decide to -- to run in primary. And -- and may the best man or woman win.
TAPPER: Embattled Trump nominee Paul Ingrassia withdrew his nomination for that top watchdog position after he failed enough -- failed to garner enough of Republican support in the Senate. He, of course, has come under scrutiny in recent weeks. We brought you that report yesterday about these unearthed racist texts that "Politico" uncovered accusations against him of sexual harassment as well. His past is -- is costing him a Senate approved job, Bryan. But the White House apparently is going to keep him on as a staffer, even though he talked about having a Nazi streak. That's his own words in this text chain conversation. And -- and I mean, he was losing. I mean, the reason his nomination is withdrawn is because Republican senators were like, no.
LANZA: It's too much.
TAPPER: Yes.
LANZA: Listen, I'm shocked, you know, that both parties right now are dealing with this conversation of Nazis. You have a Senate candidate in Maine who tattoos a very popular Nazi image on his chest. We have Republicans who are involved in tweets in -- in New York talking about this. I -- I really want to return to the time where, you know, this isn't part of our daily conversation.
TAPPER: Nazis?
LANZA: Absolutely. I'd love -- I'd love to --
TAPPER: For the record, we did you talk about that Nazi tattoo of the main Democratic --
LANZA: Of course. How do you not talk about that?
TAPPER: Yes. Jamie, in terms of Ingrassia, how embarrassing is this for Trump? What does it say about Republicans being willing to stand up, if not directly against him, against one of his nominees?
JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: So two things. This is now, I think the 49th withdrawal, which is a record that you do not want to hold.
TAPPER: Is that right --
GANGEL: That's that 49, according to, you know, Trump likes everything bigger. I don't think this is embarrassing because when you have to withdraw to, you are losing. And Donald Trump doesn't like to be a loser. I do think it's interesting and let's see if it's a trend or not that Republican senators are standing up.
TAPPER: Yes. So we also learned today that the entirety of the White House East Wing is going to be demolished. The President has the power to do this. You can thank LBJ for that. I don't think that there was a lot of notification. I did not know this was happening. The President earlier this year said that this ballroom was not going to even touch the White House, which he loves, he said, you work there. What -- what do you think?
BEDINGFIELD: The images are shocking. I think they're -- I think they're shocking to people who maybe would have, if you told them in concept this was happening, they wouldn't have had any sort of emotional reaction to it. But I think people seeing those images of the East Wing of the White House being torn down by a backhoe actually has had -- there's been sort of an emotional response. I mean, look, there are renovations to the White House, obviously. Jackie Kennedy very famously redid the White House.
It's not that there isn't a process to renovate what is functionally a very old building. But, you know, watching him just violate all the rules, tear it down and tear it down as part of a process to build a ballroom that is really in service of his ego, I think is -- is -- is tough for people to --
TAPPER: You don't buy it, Bryan?
LANZA: Many presidents have complained about the lack of space for these ceremonies. So it's not -- it's not -- it's not ego. It's actually President Trump showing the executive action to do something when everyone else did not have that action. And not only that, I will find it that he did find private donors to do that. It wasn't taxpayer money that's handling this.
TAPPER: Yes, the taxpayer dollars is for the Justice Department settlement. Private donation is for the ballroom. I hope so. All that gold. All good adds up. Thanks, everyone. Appreciate matters.
[17:54:38]
Last week, two people on board is suspected drug boats survived a U.S. strike. CNN's David Culver spoke with one of them. That story is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TAPPER: In our World Lead, earlier this hour, President Trump confirmed that the U.S. Military carry -- carried out yet another lethal strike against a suspected drug boat yesterday, killing both people on board. This one happened in the Pacific, unlike the previous seven strikes, which happened in the Caribbean or the Atlantic.
Over the weekend, the U.S. released two survivors from one of last week's strikes. They were returned to their home countries of Colombia and Ecuador. CNN's David Culver is in Ecuador right now and he spoke with the family of one of those survivors. And David, we've heard the President call the people on these boats terrorists. We've heard the administration call them narco terrorists. From what you've seen on the ground, who are they?
DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I sat with his sister, who lives about two hours from where we are, Jake, on a coastal town. It's a very small fishing village. And I said, do you consider your brother to be a terrorist? And she said, absolutely not. She pushed back on that. She doesn't even consider him to be a criminal. Now, the fact is he is a criminal because in 2020, he was convicted of drug smuggling in the U.S. off of Mexico's coast.
But you've got to build context as to who this individual is. And the reality is he's certainly not one of the higher level cartel members. In fact, many of these individuals are simply fishermen who have either been lured into this coerced, some of them threatened, others are doing it for the money, and -- and they admit that.
Now you're seeing some of the images here of us going into a very humble, modest home, and his belongings are -- are still there, his mattress on the floor, his clothes. Interestingly enough, his sister said that when he left several months ago, he told her, I'm going to work, I'm going fishing. He was desperate for money in mountains of debt, yet he left behind his fishing gear. So that was obviously suspicious to her at the time.
Still, Jake, she stands by saying that he is not a criminal and that he is just being sucked up in what is a really difficult system.
TAPPER: And, David, you spent more than two weeks this year following the narco trafficking route through Ecuador. The Trump administration says these new strikes are aimed at stopping drugs from flooding into the United States. Are -- are they hitting the right targets?
CULVER: I guess the question here is, Jake, you know, what are the targets? Because if you're looking to stop drugs that are causing overdoses in the U.S. that's fentanyl. I've spent weeks in Mexico before following that route, all the way up across the border, most of it carried over by U.S. citizens, according to law enforcement on the U.S. side of things.
And so if they're trying to then stop drugs coming out of South America, particularly places like Colombia and Venezuela, they're talking about cocaine, Jake. The vast majority of cocaine, however, comes out of Ecuador, where I am. More than 70 percent leaves here.
[18:00:10]
TAPPER: All right. David Culver in Ecuador, thank you so much.
