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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Putin Envoy Visits U.S. For Talks After New Sanctions; U.S. Deploys Aircraft Carrier To Latin America As Drug Operation Expands; VA Secretary Urges Congress To Resolve Shutdown; Mafia Families At Center Of NBA Cheating Schemes; Letitia James After Arraignment: "I Will Not Be Deterred"; Game One Of World Series To Kick Off Tonight In Toronto. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired October 24, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[17:00:23]

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: All right, thanks to my panel. Thanks to all of you for watching. Jake Tapper is standing by for The Lead and he will be in the chair on Sunday with a great lineup. Hi, Jake.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: That's right. And after that, of course, the big Eagles-Giants game. Thanks, Kasie. We'll see you back in the arena next week.

HUNT: See you soon.

TAPPER: President Trump is sending an aircraft carrier strike group to the Caribbean. The Lead starts right now.

Massive developments today in America's involvement in conflicts around the globe as tensions rise with Venezuela. The USS Gerald R. Ford Strike Group is leaving Europe to head closer to South America. That news as a key ally to Vladimir Putin arrives in the U.S. for meetings with the White House. And that key Putin ally is going to join us live in moments.

Plus, on day 24, the federal government shutdown. Hundreds of thousands of Americans are not going to get paid. But you know who is getting their paychecks? The members of Congress who still can't reach a deal to reopen the government. Are we any closer to a compromise?

And one day after a massive gambling scandal rocked the NBA, we're learning more details about how the players and coaches and others involved allegedly worked with the mafia to steal millions of dollars from the Gambinos to the Luccheses. We're digging into the allegations against the powerful mobsters.

Welcome to The Lead on TikTok. We're going to start with our World Lead with President Trump leaving tonight for a summit in Asia facing a plate full of major global issues. While overseas next week, Mr. Trump will hold a big leader with Chinese leader Xi Jinping. The two rival powers looking to improve relations and trade negotiations. This as trade negotiations with a friendly power just took a nosedive.

President Trump announcing he's ending trade talks with Canada. Why? Well, he was angered by a Canadian TV advertisement. We're going to have much more on that this hour.

But one of the most pressing issues on Trump's plate is also trying to end the war between Russia and Ukraine. After a second planned Trump- Putin summit fell apart this week, the U.S. announced new sanctions on Moscow.

But today, Russia's top economic envoy, Kirill Dmitriev has arrived here in the U.S. for official talks on the U.S.-Russia relationship. A White House official telling CNN that Dmitriev will meet Trump's special envoy, Steve Witkoff in Miami tomorrow.

And joining me now is that Kremlin special envoy, Kirill Dmitriev. Mr. Kirill Dmitriev, we really appreciate your time. You said your visit was planned a while ago, but now you do arrive. Amid growing U.S. frustration over the Kremlin's refusal to take steps to end the war in Ukraine. What do you hope comes from meeting with Steve Witkoff tomorrow?

Are you going to ask for relief from these new sanctions? What are you going to tell him?

KIRILL DMITRIEV, KREMLIN SPECIAL ENVOY: No, Jake. First of all, thank you for having me here. And secondly, I think dialogue is important. Only through dialogue can conflicts be solved. I think it's important to understand Russian position, Russian security concerns. Sanctions are really not such a big issue. President Putin mentioned yesterday two points. He said Russia will never act under pressure. And secondly, those sanctions will just lift oil prices in the world, will result in high gasoline prices in the U.S. and Russia will be just selling maybe less oil at a higher price.

So I think the real issue is just how to continue dialogue, how to have a peaceful resolution to the crisis while really having realistic solutions rather than pushing forward unrealistic solutions.

TAPPER: So from President Trump's perspective, he has perhaps more than any other Western leader, been willing to work with Putin. He has praised Putin. He literally had the red carpet rolled out for him on U.S. soil in Alaska, that summit did not yield any real progress in terms of ending the war.

And now a second summit planned for Budapest fell apart. I want you to take a listen to President Trump's tone this week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Every time I speak with Vladimir, I have good conversations and then they don't go anywhere. They just don't go anywhere.

I don't want to have a wasted meeting. I don't want to have a waste of time. So I'll see what happens. (END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: President Trump does appear to be frustrated with Putin. What's your reaction?

DMITRIEV: Well, first of all, I think President Trump has done great successes in achieving peace deal in Gaza. And I think his big success is having dialogue with Russia. And by the way, we had the first stop of hitting on energy infrastructure of Russia and Ukraine because of President Trump.

[17:05:00]

And I'm sure this conflict will have a diplomatic solution. So all those efforts will lead to a result. I think a very important solution that came out of Alaska is that it's not just about ceasefire, but about having a final solution to the conflict so that the conflict doesn't resume.

So the meeting between President Putin and President Trump will happen, but probably at a later date. And I'm sure that his diplomatic efforts will succeed because it's much better to have dialogue with Russia than like President Biden had no dialogue with Russia, wanted to have strategic defeat of Russia, and obviously that strategy failed.

TAPPER: In regard to those talks, that second summit in Budapest, Hungary, had Vladimir Putin ever agreed to meet with Trump there, or was the summit publicly announced before any firm commitments had been made?

DMITRIEV: Well, I'll just refer to President Putin's public comments, and he mentioned that actually President Trump open offered this meeting and then they wanted our foreign ministers and State Department head to work out the details. And maybe there was a solution that at this stage, all of the details have not been worked out.

So I think the meeting is more postponed and needs to be well prepared by our diplomats.

TAPPER: President Zelenskyy has agreed to freeze the lines of conflict where they are right now for a ceasefire. Why hasn't President Putin?

DMITRIEV: Well, I think Russia really wants not just a ceasefire, but a final solution to the conflict. And actually, President Trump made a truce post about this because ceasefire can always be broken. It's really a temporary solution. Many people can use it to do all sorts of rearmament and preparation for continuation of conflict.

Whereas I believe Russia and the U.S. and Ukraine are actually quite close to a diplomatic solution. It's a big move by President Zelenskyy to already acknowledge that it's about battle lines. You know, his previous position was that Russia should leave completely. So, actually, I think we are reasonably close to a diplomatic solution that can be worked out. TAPPER: So one of the things that President Trump has said in terms of

his frustration with Putin, he told a story before the Alaska summit about how he told his wife, First Lady Melania Trump, about how a good conversation he had just had with Vladimir Putin and then Melania said something along the lines of, oh, well, Russia just bombed a nursing home.

And this revealed the disparity between the words that Vladimir Putin says to President Trump and the actions. Can you understand why President Trump is frustrated?

DMITRIEV: Well, first of all, I think Russia military, and I'm not a military guy. I'm focused on economic and investments, as you know. But the position of Russian military, they really hit only military targets. And by the way, that's very different from some of the wars fought around the world where many more civilian casualties are happening.

So I think only now all of the complexities of the conflict are emerging. You know, I think it's very important to have the right narratives and understand that, for example, lots of Russian speaking people in the Donbas region were actually originally attacked by Ukrainian forces in the beginning.

So I think we all want this conflict to be finished diplomatically. I think we are finding those compromises that would work for all of the parties. And I do understand some of the frustrations. But I think there is also quite a bit of misinformation about what's going on. So thank you, Jake, for having me to at least share some part of the Russian position.

TAPPER: Well, sure, with all due respect, I mean, I've been to Ukraine since the war began and it's not only military targets. I've seen apartment buildings that were flattened. Just earlier this week, a kindergarten in Kharkiv was bombed. I mean, it is not true that Russia is only targeting military targets. There are civilian targets throughout Ukraine that are being targeted.

DMITRIEV: Well, of course Russia is not targeting kindergartens and our military needs to be asked about this specific situation. But there is lots of unfortunate and by the way, any casualty is a huge tragedy. And this is why we want to face finish this conflict as soon as possible.

TAPPER: So why not agree with ceasefire?

DMITRIEV: The Russian position is that military targets are being attacked sometimes Ukrainian air defense rockets, you know, hit their targets. But again, it's not my area. I'm not a military guy. I'm just working to have dialogue and make sure that the conflict is ended as soon as possible.

TAPPER: You recently proposed the construction of a Trump-Putin tunnel between Alaska and the Russian Far East. Similar ideas to physically connect the U.S. and Russia have been floated before, including in 1904 during the Cold War, to no avail. Although President Trump did tell reporters that your idea was

interesting. Has there ever been any actual conversation privately about something like this?

DMITRIEV: Well, I think this idea is important just to showcase, once we overcome political difficulties, what the future may look like.

[17:10:05]

And the origin of this idea is actually going back to almost 150 years ago when it was proposed by American business people to Tsarist Russia. It was discussed as Kennedy-Khrushchev Peace Bridge and Elon Musk has technology that can get it done. And there is lots of economic rationale to do it.

But I think it's more importantly not just the project itself, but once the political difficulties are overcome, we believe there is lots of economic cooperation that can happen. And this economic cooperation can be the foundation of peaceful relationship between Russia and the U.S. and we need that foundation because the security of the whole world depends on it.

So we are seriously studying this project and by the way, it's feasible and it can be done. But we also understand that political difficulties need to be overcome first.

TAPPER: Before you go, sir, just a quick question. Can you explain why there were Russian drones over Poland several weeks ago? That really was distressing for many people who believe in the NATO alliance because Poland obviously is a member of NATO.

DMITRIEV: Well, again, I'm not a military guy. Some of our military guys say it's actually not our drones, it's provocation. So I don't have specific information on this. I think it's very important to have people discuss specific incidents. And I know Russia is open. If there are any questions about specific incidents, Russia is open to discuss.

To my understanding, nobody reached out to Russia to have investigation of this and Russia is open to an investigation on this.

TAPPER: Kremlin. Kremlin special envoy Kirill Dmitriev, thank you so much. Good luck in your conversations with Steve Witkoff. I think we all would love for this war to end.

DMITRIEV: Thank you so much, Jake. Thank you for having me.

TAPPER: President Trump ordered an aircraft carrier strike group to move closer to Venezuela. As CNN is learning the administration is considering plans to target cocaine facilities and drug trafficking routes inside the country. How big of an escalation would that be? Well, I'll ask former Defense Secretary, next.

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[17:15:52] TAPPER: Breaking news in our World Lead, the secretary of defense, or as he likes to be called, Secretary of War Pete Hegseth today ordered the world's largest aircraft carrier strike group to the Caribbean region. The U.S. is continuing to escalate its campaign against what they say are narco drug terrorists, striking at least 10 suspected drug boats since last month, including one overnight that Hegseth said killed six people.

But President Trump has also been weighing strikes inside Venezuela itself as part of a broader strategy aimed at weakening the leader, Nicolas Maduro. Three U.S. officials telling CNN today that while President Trump has not ruled out a diplomatic approach, he is considering plans to target cocaine facilities inside Venezuela.

Let's discuss this all with Leon Panetta, former defense secretary and CIA director for the Obama administration. Thank you so much for joining us, Secretary Panetta. How serious is this? Do you think we could really see the U.S. strike inside Venezuela or potentially even having American boots on the ground?

LEON PANETTA, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY, OBAMA ADMINISTRATION: Well, look, there's no question, Jake, there were. We're dealing with a very serious deployment of our forces right now. We've had B1 bombers going near Venezuela. We've had B52s, F-35 squadrons now in place. I think there's something like a submarine that's been in place, eight warships that are already in place, Reaper drones, and now this carrier group.

That's a lot of men and American men and women in uniform that are being put in harm's way. And in order to kind of make sense of this so we don't just find ourselves by accident in war, I think it's really important that the president had better present a strategy to the American people and to the Congress as to exactly what are the objectives here. Is this about regime change? Is this about narco trafficking? Is it about something else?

Because when you're deploying that many men and women in harm's way, you are, in fact, putting their lives at risk. And you better have a damn good explanation for that.

TAPPER: If the U.S. did strike inside Venezuela, what kind of retaliation might we see from Nicolas Maduro and what might it look like?

PANETTA: Well, I don't think there's any question that if you're going to conduct land attacks and you're going to start throwing bombs in Venezuela itself, that they are going to defend themselves and they're going to try to strike back. And that means that we could lose lives.

And it's for that reason that I think it's really important that the President of the United States take some time here to try to understand just exactly what are the objectives. You can't just do this by the seat of your pants. That's too much firepower. And one accident, one misplaced target, could result in a small war with Venezuela. TAPPER: So the Trump administration is asserting basically that the

war powers that any and every president have had since the authorization of use of force after 9/11, that those powers that President Obama used, for example, when you were in the Obama administration to attack Al Qaeda in Yemen, for example, he is now using those powers. He's declared the traffickers to be terrorists and he's now using them to attack drug traffickers. Do you buy that argument?

PANETTA: Well, as a lawyer, I find it really difficult to see the justification of that argument, because drug traffickers are criminals. They are not combatants, they're not in war, they haven't attacked us. And for that reason, we're dealing with criminals.

I think we should, by the way, I think we've got to deal with drug trafficking, but it is more a law enforcement problem than it is a military problem.

[17:20:00]

And that is the confusion that rains right now. In the very least, the president should go to the Congress, explain what he's trying to do, and I believe he should get authority from the Congress to do what he believes is necessary. That's the way it should be done, right, rather than doing it by the seat of your pants.

TAPPER: Former Secretary of Defense and CIA Director Leon Panetta, thank you so much, sir. As always,.

On day 24 of the government shutdown, there's not much Republicans and Democrats are agreeing on. Both sides do agree that veterans are suffering because of the shutdown. So how is the Trump administration working to alleviate that suffering? That story's next.

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DOUG COLLINS, VETERANS AFFAIRS SECRETARY: It's time for my friends across the aisle to vote to open the government. Just like they've done 18 times while I was there and others. And then have the discussions you need to do on policy. Quit holding my veterans hostage right now.

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[17:25:02]

TAPPER: That's Veterans Affairs Secretary Doug Collins on Wednesday at a veterans hospital calling on Congress and specifically Democrats to end the government shutdown now in its 24th day, while most health care and benefits for veterans remain funded by advance appropriations. In a letter to Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, Secretary Collins warns that, quote, more than 35,000 V.A. employees are either furloughed or being forced to work without paying, and vital support functions such as transition assistance, education call centers and outreach to veterans have been suspended, unquote.

Joining us now is the Secretary of Veterans Affairs, Doug Collins. Mr. Secretary, thanks for joining us. So right now you say that veterans still have access to health care and they're receiving disability payments and pensions, but how long before the shutdown impacts those services?

COLINS: It won't be affected by that, Jake, and I appreciate you asking. That's really something I want to make sure that we cut through very quickly because in all the chaos, so many times veterans hear things that I don't want them to hear or it affects them getting their care. They're going to get health care, they're going to get our clinics are open, our hospitals are going to stay open, the disability payments are going to be made, suicide prevention, all of those kind of things, the MyVA 411 line, the 988 line, the veteran crisis lines, all will stay continually open as we go forward in this and the Veterans Appeals Board is working.

Those are the kind of things that will continue. And I want to make sure that they understand that, because I don't want anybody to think with the chaos in Washington, that they're not able to get their critical health care needs that many of them depend on.

TAPPER: You expect to have to furlough more V.A. staff next week. If the shutdown continues, what impact will that have on veterans?

COLLINS: It really, again, it'll affect the backside of what we know is already happening. Our regional offices, we don't have are able to process people coming in and getting the answers quickly to questions because we're having to use staff in a much more shutdown fashion. In other words, very few of them coming in. So it's just a little bit longer to get.

One of the big areas, though, Jake, and I think it's something that you've talked about before and you and I have talked about is getting that transition assistance coming in for veterans who have gotten out of the military. They're trying to get started again in a career. And our VR and E, our vocational rehab and education is shut down right now. So they're not able to get payments for school. They're not able to get their job placement tools together.

This is stopped altogether. So those will just continue to pile up. We could be -- we could have a much of a backlog of over 10,000 plus by the end of the month if the way this thing's continuing.

TAPPER: So we reached out to Leader Schumer's office for a reaction to the letter you sent him urging him to end the shutdown. He got this response, quote, if Secretary Collins truly cared about veterans, he'd tell his party to stop the reckless purge of VA workers, end the shutdown and restore the care and dignity our veterans earn. Democrats will keep fighting for veterans, and when Republicans are finally ready to do the same, we'll be here ready to work, unquote. What's your response, sir?

COLLINS: Well, I wish Senator Schumer and his staff would learn how the word lie is a part of the American dictionary and quit lying. There's been no purge at VA. And Senator Schumer, if that's the way you feel, you need to resign. That is just a lie that is permanently affecting how veterans view the VA.

We've purged no one at the VA. There's a problem right now, Jake, and that's this. Chuck Schumer will not allow Democrats to vote to fund the government. It's five or six more Democrats. All they got to do is vote to open the government. Our people get paid tomorrow, everybody goes back to work, and then they can have their discussion on anything else they want.

Remember, it was Schumer and others who put this in place just a few years ago when they decided to sunset the Obamacare subsidies. This is their problem. They're making political hay out of it now. But that's just abysmal attitude from Senator Schumer to say we're purging the VA. That's just terrible.

TAPPER: Well, can I just ask you about that? Because it's possible he was referring to the DOGE staffing cuts at the VA. Didn't DOGE --

COLLINS: There were none, Jake. There were none. Jake, there were no staffing cuts. We had some probationaries that were let go, but were all brought back. And every bit of the -- our downsizing we've had, we had about 30,000, all came from early retirements, people choosing voluntarily to decide that they wanted to take part in a early retirement program.

So I will not accept anybody saying that we fired, did anything else to anybody at the VA. And Chuck Schumer supposed to be the leader of the Senate, he ought to know that.

TAPPER: On Wednesday, I want to ask you, there was this unanimous 9-0 ruling by the court of Appeals for Veterans Claims that rejected an effort by the Trump administration to delay veteran's benefits during the shutdown. The Military Times reports that the judges led by a Trump appointed judge called it quote, a significant and extreme request and the secretary has failed to demonstrate that such sweeping relief is appropriate, unquote. What was your reaction to that decision?

COLLINS: I'm just getting used to this court being a little extreme in their own right and also being very hostile to this administration. If you read their language of decisions in the past few months they are seemingly very unfriendly to this administration actually in my opinion as a legal person not even following the law.

[17:30:00]

But here's the sad part about this Jake is this same request was made by the Obama administration in 2013. And guess what? This same court approved that so that we don't have to bring in employees and run the risk of Anti-Deficiency Act because we're having employees come to work who are not scheduled and not able to come to work to keep up with this court. And they're really, they're just duplicitous attitude. Again, why was it OK for you to do it during Obama, but not OK under Trump? That shows you sort of what we're dealing with.

TAPPER: The secretary of Veterans affairs, former Congressman and veteran, Doug Collins. Thank you so much, sir. Appreciate your time.

COLLINS: Thanks, Jake. Appreciate it.

TAPPER: Yesterday, he showed us how people can cheat at poker with special tools. Sal Piacente is back after the break to show us some of the other technology that was allegedly used in this massive cheating scandal involving mobsters and NBA players and coaches. Stay with us.

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[17:34:59]

TAPPER: In our Law and Justice Lead, at the center of the two massive FBI probes into the gambling and sports rigging schemes announced yesterday. At the center is the mafia. Dubbed Operation Nothing But Bet and Operation Royal Flush, these investigations examine allegations of insider information used to place bets on NBA games and rig underground poker games. CNN's Brynn Gingras has more now on who exactly is holding all the cards in these schemes.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a cheating scandal that's rocked the NBA. And at the core members of New York City's most notorious crime families.

JESSICA TISCH, NEW YORK CITY POLICE COMMISSIONER: Gambino, Lucchese and Genovese crime families.

GINGRAS (voice-over): Spook, Flappy, Juice, The Wrestler, some of the nicknames of men allegedly tied to the scheme, all reminiscent of a scene straight out of Hollywood.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Better check.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't rush me, sunshine. You're rushing me all -- night.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, he didn't study this hard in school.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cry me a river. Three beautiful kings.

GINGRAS (voice-over): La Cosa Nostra is the nickname given to the Italian-American mob. Their lore dates back decades to when the families ran criminal enterprises in New York City, often in competition with each other. This court paperwork alleges, though, the mob families are not a thing of the past. And for one gambling scheme, they teamed up, adopting new technology to rig poker games, allegedly taking nearly $2 million from a single victim.

TISCH: And when people refused to pay, these defendants did what organized crime has always done. They used threats. They used intimidation. And they used violence.

GINGRAS (voice-over): As part of the investigation, authorities scanned thousands of hours of surveillance video, at one point spotting these men, including one dubbed, Big Bruce. Court documents show this group already ran illegal gambling operations backed by the Bonanno crime family when they got involved in the poker scheme.

Same goes for a defendant who went by the name Flappy, who in text messages confirmed his illegal ring was backed by the Gambino crime family.

CHRISTOPHER RAIA, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR IN CHARGE, FBI'S NEW YORK FIELD OFFICE: This alleged illegal gambling operation hustled unwitting victims out of tens of millions of dollars and created a financial pipeline for La Cosa Nostra to help fund and facilitate their organized criminal activity.

GINGRAS (voice-over): Defendant Robert Stroud, referred to as Black Rob, allegedly supplied, along with other defendants, rigged shuffling machines to the operations.

SAL PIACENTE, PRESIDENT, UNIVERSAL GAME PROTECTION DEVELOPMENT, INC.: That shuffle machine is altered to transmit to an earpiece to tell the people who were going to win.

GINGRAS (voice-over): And in one case, allegedly helped carry out a robbery to steal one. S getting real in NYC, a text read after the alleged heist. Federal prosecutors have asked that some of the dozens of defendants be detained on the new charges, citing their mob ties, like Angelo Ruggiero Jr., a member of the Gambino family who allegedly once boasted in prison about being tight with former boss John Gotti Sr. and that he had shot a man in the chest. Some defendants have entered not guilty pleas and in some cases have even posted bail.

Brynn Gingras, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: And our thanks to Brynn Gingras for that report. Joining us now for an encore performance, casino -- casino game protection and cheating expert, Sal Piacente.

Sal, welcome back to The Lead. So yesterday you showed us how folks can read -- rig card shuffling machines, which is something alleged in the court documents.

The allegations also include X-ray tables that read cards that are faced down, which we talked about. But I understand you're going to show us today how some of that technology works.

PIACENTE: Well, every interview I've done, everyone asks about the X- ray table, the X-ray table. I cannot talk about the table that they use because I have not seen them. I don't know exactly what table they use. I don't know who supplied the tables for them.

But the table they talked about yesterday, the cameras that I know of are built into the table and they are filmed underneath. So that way, when the cards are dealt onto the table, the cameras can see the faces of the cards. However, when everyone talks about X-ray, they think, can you see through the card? Well, I'm going to show you something and you're going to see this technology.

You're going to see the device I have is older. This is not new. But if you look right here, you look at this light. Now, don't ask me anything technical about how this works because I don't know. I just know a guy. I get these things. They tell me it works and I know it works. I know it's been used.

This thing looks like a light board. It's on. How do I know it's on? Because I plugged it in. It doesn't light up. It doesn't emit any light. It doesn't emit any heat. I don't know, but it's on. So what does this do? This projects an image. Now, if I take a regular card here, just a regular poker card and lay it onto this.

Now, when I put this camera overneath that card, this camera will see through that card and project it to this image. I am going to shut the lights here because the reflection of the chandelier, but you should be able to see that card.

[17:40:11]

TAPPER: That's a three of clubs. Is that what that is?

PIACENTE: Correct. Yes, it is. As a matter of fact, let's -- three of spades.

TAPPER: Three of spades, sorry. Yes.

PIACENTE: Let's put another one up. We'll put a different brand. We'll put -- We'll put a different brand up there.

TAPPER: OK. You tell me what that is because -- that's a two of clubs. That's a two of clubs. Yes.

PIACENTE: Exactly.

TAPPER: OK.

PIACENTE: Exactly. Now, this is built into -- into the table. And if I put this felt over it or this poker layout, you're going to see that that light goes right through it and you can still see that card.

TAPPER: Oh my God. Even with the felt.

PIACENTE: -- with no problem.

TAPPER: That's incredible.

PIACENTE: Even with the felt, yes. And it's a regular deck of cards.

TAPPER: And you could, I guess, so thye're -- they're constructing entire card tables with -- with that little light box thing and the felt.

PIACENTE: With those lights in each spot where the cards will be dealt and the camera is -- is either in a chandelier. I've seen them in pool hall lighting structures. They could be in smoke detectors. The camera just has to be above. That's all.

TAPPER: I won't ask you how it's -- how it's done technically. And even if you explained it, I wouldn't understand it. How often do people get caught trying to use -- use -- trying to use this kind of technology?

PIACENTE: It doesn't get caught that much, as far as I know. Like I have a lot of surveillance footage of poker cheating being done in casinos. But you got to remember, we only look at footage of the people that got caught. There's absolutely no way that we know how many people are they using it.

However, I will tell you, I know of three crooked gambling manufacturing companies within the United States that supply crooked gambling equipment. I know these things are being sold quite a bit. So I know it's out there. So all I can tell you is your viewers have to learn how to protect themselves.

TAPPER: I -- I -- I -- is it illegal to manufacture or sell this -- this crooked gambling stuff?

PIACENTE: No, no. Entertainment purposes only. This is not to be used for illicit purposes.

TAPPER: Right.

PIACENTE: They would -- they would never hear of that.

TAPPER: Right. Oh, my God. Great stuff, Sal Piacente.

PIACENTE: No, it's not illegal.

TAPPER: Yes. All right. We're going to have you back again soon. I just love that. This should be a daily segment on this show. Even with -- even without a news hook. I don't care. Just teach us new fun stuff like that. Sal Piacente, thank you so much. Really, really appreciate it. And send my love to your sister.

As one Trump foe appears in court today, the potential case against another appears to have hit a bump in the road. Why prosecutors have been hesitant to bring charges against Democratic Senator Trump nemesis, Adam Schiff. Stay with us.

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[17:47:28]

TAPPER: Our Politics Lead now. CNN has learned that prosecutors have been investigating, but have been hesitant to bring charges against Democratic Senator Trump nemesis, Adam Schiff. The charges would center around allegations of mortgage fraud, which would then theoretically lead to an indictment. President Trump was asked if he knows about a pending indictment for Schiff yesterday at the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, you know, I'm not going to comment on that. I would just say, Adam Schiff is one of the lowest forms of scum I've ever dealt with in politics. He's a horrible human being. Very dishonest person. I have no idea what's going on. I hope it's true, but I don't know anything.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: My panel joins me now. So Joe, let me start with you. So former FBI Director James Comey has already tried to get his case thrown out by claiming this is vindictive prosecution because of President Trump's personal vendetta against him. Comments like this do not help the case if he actually wants -- if there's actually anything there.

JOSEPH MORENO, FORMER GOP STRATEGIST: Historically, getting a case dismissed on the grounds of vindictive prosecution is actually pretty tough.

TAPPER: Right,

MORENO: Because prosecutors are given a lot of latitude. If they see something wrong, short of bribery or something, they're making up evidence, they're allowed to bring the case. It rises or falls as it -- as it may. Things like this, this is almost like a case written for dismissal, for vindictive prosecution, where you have the President just basically saying, I don't care, I want him charged with something.

So whether it's the installation of the U.S. attorney in Virginia, whether that was defective, whether it was vindictive prosecution, or if you get past the process problems, the case against Comey is really weak on the merits. So one way or the other, I do not see this going the distance.

TAPPER: Another person's drawn Trump's ire, New York Attorney General Letitia James, who has been indicted. She was arraigned in a Virginia courthouse today. She pleaded not guilty to mortgage fraud charges. Outside the courthouse, she had this to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LETITIA JAMES, NEW YORK ATTORNEY GENERAL: I will not be deterred. I will not be distracted. This is not about me. This is about all of us and about a justice system which has been weaponized.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Now, when she ran for attorney general in 2018, she promised that she would, essentially promised that she would bring charges against -- against President Trump. And in fact, you can go back and then-citizen Dan Goldman, now a congressman, was talking about this same issue in "The New York Times," vindictive prosecution.

[17:50:00] So there is an issue here about whether or not what's good for the goose is good for the gander, whether or not she's just getting what she medded out. What do you think?

SABRINA SINGH, CNN COMMENTATOR: Yes, I -- I think you described it right. You know, it's now all the waters are a bit murky, and we're sort of looking at it now from this 30,000-foot view, and everything just doesn't seem to be aligning. But regardless, I think she did make a point here, is that the justice system is being weaponized.

The indictment that was signed was signed by a political appointee, which is unusual. It's usually signed by a career prosecutor. So I think with some of the comments that have been made, to your point that you're making earlier about Comey, you know, some of these cases, I think there's grounds for dismissal, because there is prejudice already injected into the system from the highest person in government, which is the President himself.

So I think there's a lot that remains to be seen here. But I think she makes a valid point that Donald Trump is using the levers of power and trying to go after his so-called perceived political enemies.

TAPPER: So speaking of extraordinary times, former Trump Svengali, Steve Bannon, today hinted that President Trump might run for president again, even though the U.S. Constitution doesn't allow for such a thing, in 2028. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEVE BANNON, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF STRATEGIST: He's going to get a third term. So Trump '28, Trump is going to be president in '28. And people just ought to get accommodated with that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So what about the 22nd Amendment?

BANNON: There's many different alternatives. At the appropriate time, we'll lay out what the plan is. But there's a plan, and President Trump will be the president in '28.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: There is this kind of wacky theory that J.D. Vance will run for president with Trump as his vice president. And then J.D. Vance gets into office and flips it. But do you think Bannon actually believes this? Or is just this just trolling? I think he was with "The Economist" there.

MORENO: Trolling is the word I would use, Jake. I mean, I don't know any serious smart conservative that listens to Steve Bannon. I mean, he's -- he's -- he's a crazy person. I think this is a troll. I think they love trotting this story out every few months between the 22nd Amendment and the 12th Amendment, which says if someone's not eligible to be president, they cannot be eligible to be vice president. It's going to get blocked.

And the states control who's on the ballots. You have states like California and Colorado who will just not list Donald Trump on the ballot as a presidential candidate in 2028. And that'll be the end of it. So I think they love laughing at people and getting everyone all riled up. But at the end of the day, it's not going to go anywhere.

SINGH: Well, you know, you mentioned that this is a -- this is a crazy person that no one listens to. And yet this is a person that has a huge platform that people actually do listen to. I think --

TAPPER: A lot of people in MAGA world listen to Steve Bannon.

SINGH: They do. And I think --

TAPPER: Whether they should is another matter.

SINGH: Exactly. Exactly. And I think, you know, even though all the case that you outlined and why Donald Trump cannot be on the ticket are all the reasons, I mean, this is not constitutionally possible. I still think you have to take it seriously. I mean, they are bending the levers of power and the courts and the legal system to their benefit.

And I mean, I -- I don't -- while I don't think a Trump third term is possible, I still think it's something that Democrats should take seriously.

TAPPER: I think after January 6th, you got to take it all?

SINGH: Yes.

MORENO: Seriously.

[17:52:57]

TAPPER: All right. Thanks, guys. Appreciate it. Leaves are changing. Temperatures are dropping. And it's time for the fall classic. We're live on the field in Toronto ahead of the first game in the World Series. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Our Sports Lead. Well, the World Series kicks off tonight in Toronto, Canada when the Blue Jays face the Los Angeles Dodgers. The Dodgers are the defending champions after taking home the Commissioner's Trophy last year, while the Blue Jays have not won a World Series since 1993. A series I would rather not talk about.

CNN's Andy Scholes is on the field at Rogers Center in Toronto for us. Andy, what is the atmosphere in the park ahead of tonight's game?

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Jake, I mean, it's electric here at the Rogers Center as the fans are filing in for game one. You know, the -- the last World Series pitch here in this stadium was when Joe Carter hit that walk-off home run in 1993 over the left field fence.

Yes, unfortunately against your Phillies. I know you remember that series quite well. But the Blue Jays, they will be underdogs this time around as they take on Shohei Ohtani and the Dodgers. And the last time we saw Ohtani on a baseball field, he had what people are calling the greatest game ever in the history of baseball. He hit three home runs at the plate and then he had 10 strikeouts on the mound in that closeout game in the NLCS against the Brewers.

You know, Ohtani, I mean, he hits balls out of stadiums. He throws 100 miles per hour. I mean, he saves cats that are stuck high up in trees. I mean, Ohtani, he just does it all. And I talked to some of Ohtani's teammates and I just asked him if they can even put into words how amazing he is at the game of baseball.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAX MUNCY, DODGERS 3B: He's expected to hit these monster home runs and do these incredible performances on the mound. And very rarely does he disappoint in that -- in that sense. And when you're able to accomplish that in a game that's based on failure, it's truly incredible.

FREDDIE FREEMAN, DODGERS 1B: I just don't understand. Sometimes you just like make sure it's a -- it's not a machine under there sometimes. He's special and I'm just -- I'm just glad that I'm alive and in this generation that I get to see Ohtani play baseball.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHOLES: Now, Ohtani's going to lead off the World Series and he's likely going to be on the mound pitching in game four when the series shifts back to L.A. And the Dodgers, they are favored trying to become the first team to win back to back title since the Yankees won three in a row back in 2000. Now the Blue Jays, meanwhile, they're back in the World Series for the first time in 32 years. They showed so much grit to get to this point. They came back time and time against the Mariners to win that series. And I spoke to the team, I asked them just what would it mean to bring a title back to this city and to the country after so long?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VLADIMIR GUERRERO JR. BLUE JAYS 1B, ALCS MOST VALUABLE PLAYER: I was not even born when -- when they went in the World Series, you know.

SHANE BIEBER, BLUE JAYS PITCHER: I don't know if you can put that into words, right.

GEORGE SPRINGER, BLUE JAYS DH HIT WINNING HR IN GAME 7 OF ALCS: The city, the fans, you know, the country has been kind of, you know, they -- they -- they wanted this for a long time. So for us to be here, it's -- it's an absolute honor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[17:59:54]

SCHOLES: And while underdogs, Jake, the Blue Jays do have a little bit of history on their side, this is the fifth World Series where one of the teams is coming in after sweeping an LCS, while the other team is coming in after having to go seven games to win the LCS. In each of the four previous times that's happened, the team that needed seven games won the World Series. So the Blue Jays and their fans all here in this stadium are certainly hoping the history repeats itself.

TAPPER: All right, Andy Scholes in Toronto, thanks so much.