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The Lead with Jake Tapper

FBI Says It Thwarted Potential Terror Attack In Michigan; Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, (D-FL) Is Interviewed About Judges Rule Trump Admin Must Cover Some SNAP Benefits; Court Docs: JPMorgan Chase Sent Suspicious Epstein Transactions To The Government Weeks After He Was Found Dead In Jail; New Documentary Follows Kinzinger's Final Stand Against Trump; CBS News Roiled By Rumors Amid Corporate Changes. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired October 31, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Before we go, just want to give a sincere thanks to our panel for joining us on this Halloween. And don't forget, you can now stream The Arena live or catch up whenever you want in the CNN app. You can just scan the QR code that's right there. You can also catch us by listening to The Arena podcast and follow the show on X and Instagram at thearenacnn. Jake Tapper is standing by for "The Lead." Hey, Jake.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Thanks so much, Boris. Happy Halloween. We'll look for more in "The Arena" next week.

SANCHEZ: Sounds good. Look forward.

[17:00:30]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: How close were these suspects to carrying out a Halloween terrorist attack? The Lead starts right now.

AK-47s, online chats and a pumpkin day reference. New details about what the FBI says could have been in an ISIS inspired terrorist attack coming on Halloween weekend. Plus, not one, but two federal judges weighing in on SNAP benefits such set to expire tomorrow because of the government shutdown ordering the Trump administration to use the contingency funds that are there to pay the needy families. The White House, however, is pushing back.

And following the money, Jeffrey Epstein's money, more than $1 billion in suspicious transactions flagged by a bank right after the death of the notorious pedophile. Why is this information coming to light only now?

Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. We start our national lead. The FBI today says it averted a potential terrorist attack. Sources tell CNN that one juvenile and four others are in custody after being radicalized online. The FBI's Detroit Field Office confirmed, quote, "The FBI in Michigan were present in the cities of Dearborn and Inkster this morning conducting law enforcement activities."

Two sources tell CNN that the plot was inspired by the terrorist group ISIS and unfolded online chat rooms. Officials further say that an undercover FBI agent infiltrated the chat in its early stages, then became concerned that the plot might be imminent around Halloween because of references to, quote, "pumpkin day." According to CNN sources this week, a group of the people who were being monitored went to a shooting range with AK-47s and other weapons and that's when the FBI jumped into action.

This follows another similar, though seemingly unrelated incident in Michigan back in May when a man was arrested after the Justice Department says he tried to carry out a plan to conduct a mass shooting at a U.S. military base in Warren, Michigan, also on behalf of the terrorist group ISIS. Our national security experts are here to discuss. John Miller, CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst, former Assistant DHS Secretary Juliette Kayyem and former FBI Special Agent Steve Moore.

John, what are you hearing from your sources about the details of this plot?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, they don't know about the details of the plot. And that's one of the reasons that they took it down today. Before, they would have wanted to, simply because they went to the shooting range. After the trip to the shooting range, where they fired lots of shots and did tactical reloads and things that made it look like they were getting ready to do something, something terrible, they upped the surveillance to 24 hours a day, seven days a week. That's the physical surveillance from the special operations team that would be following all of these subjects.

But they were already up on their electronics, they were already within undercover in the same chat groups with them. But they did have this gap where they could not guarantee that if there was some part of a plot that some members of the group were about to do over Halloween weekend that they weren't aware of, they could not afford to enjoy that risk anymore. So the decision was made, take them down last night, do the searches this morning, and start to question these people. I believe that two of them are going to be charged with material support of terrorism. The rest were being assessed by prosecutors to determine what they could charge them with.

TAPPER: And Juliette, two officials say this plot was inspired by ISIS. This year began with an ISIS inspired plot of a terrorist attack in New Orleans. What are the hallmarks of an ISIS inspired plot?

JULLIETTE KAYYEM, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: So ISIS inspired can mean a lot of things. It either means, you know, direct ISIS members are telling people in the United States to attack somewhere. It could be that they are sending them through these back channels, backdoor websites, information about how to perform a major terror attack and let the people here in the United States decide where they're going to attack. Or it could just mean a bunch of people here in the United States getting radicalized by ISIS, which is loosely defined, radicalizing them around potentially jihadist terrorism incident. We should say Dearborn is the area outside of Detroit with the largest Arab and Muslim population. [17:05:00]

And so concerns about foreign influence potentially driving this U.S. attack is obviously going to be part of the FBI's investigation. So ISIS inspired can mean a lot of things. And that's probably what made the FBI a little bit nervous, is they simply didn't know where the direction of this was going. TAPPER: And Steve, how common is it for undercover agents to be

present in these online chat rooms? And what sort of messages would rise to a level that would cause the conditions to make an arrest?

STEVE MOORE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CONTRIBUTOR: Well, it's not uncommon at all. When you have some kind of Internet location where the FBI feels unlawful activity is going on to stiffen an informant or an undercover agent, whatever you're going to use from child sex rings and plots to terrorism, it's used commonly. And where you go with this, and this is the hardest part, and when you go with this is determined by what you hear and what you see. The FBI, by definition and by their practice, wants to go through, conduct an intricate investigation, tie up all the leads and get the maximum amount of charges against the people, get the maximum evidence. But when you start hearing dates, times, and actionable practices, then you can't wait until you've got the whole thing going.

And it can be frustrating. On September 10, 2001, if the FBI was watching it, what had they done? They had only gotten box cutters and airline tickets. So it is a very difficult decision to make.

TAPPER: And John, the people who were detained, do we know yet whether they absolutely had the capabilities to carry out some sort of attack?

MILLER: Well, that's the Venn diagram that we use. And I mean, Steve would know this from, you know, his FBI time, but it's intent versus capability. And we have people who have mad intent but aren't going to be very capable. We have people who have high capability, but their intent is not high. But in this case, once you see them going to the shooting range, once you see them expending ammunition, once you see them pushing to move forward with some attack and maybe around a holiday, that's where intent and capability cross to a point where, as Steve pointed out, your risk assessment is.

I could take that risk with my undercovers. I've had to make those decisions myself in similar cases. That's a calculated risk, but they know what they signed up for. But you can't take those kind of risks with the general public unless you have 100 percent controlling features, which I don't think they feel they had.

TAPPER: While there appear to be no relation to the current case, not that we know of, anyway, another Michigan man was arrested in May in Michigan for trying to carry out a plot on behalf of ISIS. Juliette, what do you make of there being at least two relatively recent Michigan based ISIS inspired terrorist attack plots, at least according to the FBI? KAYYEM: Yes, so, and this is the connectivity that the FBI

investigators will be looking at. Because what we don't know now, because we simply don't know the details of the second case, is what tipped them off to this second case.

And that is where the investigation -- how did this second investigation begin, we also need to look at and, you know, the sort of what is going on outside of this country that is pushing towards areas in Michigan in terms of what's the -- what are the connections? Are they connections based on faith, based on proximity, or is it more nebulous than that that it's not a direct tie? Those are all the things that we would want to look at in any FBI investigation.

This will now be global. When you say ISIS inspired, you have to assume that there is some foreign nexus. And we will learn those details from the FBI as it begins to sort of, you know, bring this case against people who are young, 16 to 20. So some of them are going to be put before federal courts on adult crimes. TAPPER: All right, John Miller, Juliette Kayyem, Steve Moore, thanks

to all of you.

Up next, the White House push back on court orders from two federal judges today, forcing the Trump administration to cover the SNAP or food stamp benefits set to expire tomorrow with the contingency fund that the Department of Agriculture has.

[17:09:33]

Plus, CNN on the campaign trail four days ahead of one of the hottest races to watch, the governor's race in the Commonwealth of Virginia. The one issue that we notice, Lieutenant Governor Winsome Earl-Sears, the Republican candidate, keeps bringing up and how the Democratic candidate, former Democratic Congresswoman Abigail Spanberger, consistently responds.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our politics lead, two federal judges say that the Trump administration is required to tap into the multibillion dollar contingency fund to help cover food stamps or SNAP benefits amid this government shutdown. Here's the top White House economic adviser reacting to these rulings this afternoon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEVIN HASSET, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL: We're about to use emergency funds from the Department of Agriculture because of a liberal judge ruling that we disagree in the law on. But then we don't have our emergency funds in case we have a hurricane or we have an emergency. (END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Now, in point of fact, up until September 30, the Department of Agriculture said that the money in the contingency fund could and would be used to offer release for the program called SNAP, even during a government shutdown.

Joining us now, Florida Democratic Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz. And Congresswoman, since September 30, the administration, the Department of Agriculture, reversed their ruling, but the judge upheld what they had originally had said they have until Monday to release the money. And while it appears from Kevin Hassett's interview earlier that it's unclear what they're going to do. What do you make of this legal back and forth?

[17:15:15]

REP. DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ (D-FL): By the way, Jake, thanks for having me on. As a senior member of the Appropriations Committee, I can tell you as soon as we actually pass fiscal year '26 appropriations bill, that contingency fund gets replenished. So what they're saying is complete baloney, that the -- that the funding would be gone, never to be seen again. That's what it's for. When there's a lapse in funding in an emergency situation, ensuring that people don't -- that 42 million people don't go hungry unnecessarily, that's why Congress appropriates funds into a contingency fund.

And so I certainly hope they comply with both court orders that very clearly underscore that when there's a lapse in funding, these funds must be spent to ensure that seniors, children and veterans don't go hungry across this country.

TAPPER: This money will only fund SNAP for the next two or three weeks before the government will either need to reopen or members of Congress, administration, whomever will have to find another solution. President Trump was asked about the possibility of moving around funds to find money to fund SNAP, such as the way the administration is doing right now to pay the military. Here's what President Trump had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, there always is, but all the Democrats have to do is say let's go. I mean, you know, they don't have to do anything. They don't have to agree. All they have to do is say the government is open.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: You know, that's not actually the case. Senate Democrats would have to vote to reopen the government along with Senate Republicans. Do you stand by what Democrats are doing right now, continuing to vote against reopening the government to fight for Obamacare subsidies, even if it does mean ultimately delaying SNAP benefits?

SCHULTZ: What I am absolutely supportive of, particularly as we close out Breast Cancer Awareness Month and Jake, you know, I'm a breast cancer survivor, is making sure that women like me, who thankfully had health insurance when I found the lump that I found when I was 41 years old and was able to go right to a doctor. I was able to have mammograms and screenings to determine that I had breast cancer.

And if we don't make sure that people's tax credits who are lowering health care costs for those Obamacare policies don't explode, then you're going to see women like what I went through die instead because they will be diagnosed at much later stages and people will have to use the emergency room as their primary access point for their health care.

If you don't have your health, I learned very early, you don't have anything. And we have to make sure that people's health care remains affordable. And we're going to continue to fight for that because it's all of the above. We have to sit down and finish negotiating the end of the year fiscal spending plan and negotiating extending the tax credits so we don't have people's health care costs skyrocket out of control.

TAPPER: I reported earlier today that there were pollsters that introduced data in a meeting yesterday for House Democrats that the Democratic whip, Katherine Clark organized, in which basically the case was made. House Democrats, Democrats in general, are winning the argument when given a choice, according to polling, which is more important, opening the government or fighting for health care for 20 million Americans who might be priced out of it, the vast majority was with fighting for health care. Is that the prevailing mood among House and Senate Democrats that this is a fight worth having even with the government shutdown?

SCHULTZ: Jake, yes. We believe that we should cancel the cuts, that we should lower people's health care costs, and we should save Americans health care. And we believe that because of people like man who reached out to my office, who has five kids, and if we don't extend those tax credits, his premiums are going to go up for his family by $1,200 a month. That's a 297 percent increase.

The top 10 congressional districts that for Obamacare signups in the country are all in Florida. The top 17 out of the top 25, we have four million people who have Affordable Care Act policies here in Florida, 203,000 in my district will see their health care costs explode if we don't extend this health care. And those costs, you know, Jake, gets shifted to everyone. It's not just folks who will see explosive health care costs increase that are on Obamacare policies. Those costs get shifted to all of us because when people go without, they end up in the emergency room and they aren't able to get basic access to health care and catch illness early.

When it's less expensive, it ends up being much more complicated and much more expensive and much more devastating in its result.

TAPPER: Democratic Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz of Florida, thank you so much.

[17:20:00]

We're heading to Virginia next, where no matter the results, voters will elect the commonwealth's first female governor ever. A consistent message from both women four days out from Election Day. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Cue the election music. Nice. Still waiting for one of you to write lyrics with us. We're just four days out from Election Day as the candidates in two major gubernatorial races, New Jersey and Virginia, are sprinting to the finish lines. CNN's Eva McKend is on the campaign trail in Midlothian, Virginia, following Democratic hopeful Abigail Spanberger, looking to give her party a big win after Democrats were swept out of power last November at the federal level.

[17:25:03]

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Jake, we're at a community college just outside of Richmond, Virginia, and we heard Abigail Spanberger again narrowly focus on the cost of living and affordability. She has long identified that issue as the most urgent concern of most Virginians. And it comes at a time when the lieutenant governor, Winsome Earle-Sears, a Republican candidate, has tried to pull Spanberger off of her talking point on that issue and engagement her in a conversation about trans children in public schools and the rules that govern them in terms of bathroom policies and school sports.

But Spanberger has really been reluctant to take the bait, talking instead about the aggressive federal cuts that have come from the Trump administration. It's of most importance to Virginians, hundreds of thousands of them relying on the federal government, working for the federal government.

And then also we are in the midst of a government shutdown. She speaks to those concerns as well. What's remarkable about this contest, no matter if Spanberger or Earl Sears wins, either one would be the first governor in the commonwealth's history. And we're going to see Spanberger get a big boost on the campaign trail when President Barack Obama joins her tomorrow in the Norfolk area. The campaign viewing that as really important as a mechanism to drive out turnout, get people excited about the entire Democratic ticket.

Spanberger has long led in public polling, but they don't want voters to take this contest for granted. They still want them to come out and participate tomorrow on the last day of early voting or if they haven't voted yet, vote on Tuesday. That is the latest from the campaign trail. Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Eva McKend, thank you so much.

You can't see but CNN's John King is standing just a few yards away from me shellacking the magic wall, getting it all ready for Tuesday. You can watch live as the final votes come in and we find out which party has the momentum. Look for CNN special coverage kicking off Tuesday evening, 5:00 Eastern here on CNN, not to mention streaming on the CNN app.

Next tonight on The Lead, the billion dollars worth of suspicious bank transactions flagged just weeks after Jeffrey Epstein's death. Why are they coming to light now?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:31:21] TAPPER: In our Law and Justice Lead, just weeks after Jeffrey Epstein died in a New York City Jail, JPMorgan Chase sent the government thousands of records that they believed could be linked to sex trafficking. JPMorgan Chase identified more than 4,000 instances of suspicious financial activities, totaling more than $1 billion, billion with a B. The transaction records revealed not only the amount of money moved by Epstein, but also the individuals involved.

Let's discuss this and more with CNN's Kara Scannell as well as royals historian, Andrew Lownie. Kara, what exactly makes this financial activity suspicious and why are we only learning about this now?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, these records were unsealed as part of a previous lawsuit involving the U.S. Virgin Islands and JPMorgan. Jeffrey Epstein had one of the Virgin Islands, a private island, a Little St. James that he owned and after his sex trafficking came out in the public with those federal charges, a lot of litigation ensued.

So this suspicious activity report came out as part of that litigation. It was filed a few weeks after Epstein was found dead by suicide in the jail awaiting trial. And it identifies, as you said, 4,000 plus transactions going all the way back to 2003. They are highlighting essentially any transaction that is deemed to be potentially suspicious and they're identifying in this a lot of the boldface names that have been associated with Epstein for years.

Now, there are no details in this -- in this report about what these transactions were, why they would have been suspicious. Other than that, it could have been connected to Epstein because they were highlighting this to the Treasury Department as they're required to do by law to say that there are suspicious transactions here because of who Epstein is as a person.

And that does not mean that any of these people that are included on this, including some well-known Wall Street names, had done anything wrong or were engaged in any illegal conduct with Epstein. But they're -- they still do identify some long known associates of Epstein, including Leon Black, a big financier on Wall Street, a hedge fund manager, Glenn Dubin, whose wife was a former girlfriend of Jeffrey Epstein, and Les Wexner, who Epstein had a long financial relationship with.

Now, we did hear from some of these folks, you know, they said that all the transactions that they have ever had with Epstein were legitimate. Leon Black said that there was an exhaustive investigation by an outside law firm that determined that these transactions were legitimate and that Black paid Epstein for tax and estate planning advice.

But he also said that -- statement also said that Black had fired Epstein because his fees were excessive. Now, as far as the Dubins, they say that during the 16-year period there were 12 transactions, which were related to charitable giving, personal gifts, or business matters. And all of them have said that the conduct that they were aware of with Epstein, they knew nothing about. And for Wexner, we couldn't reach him today, but previously he has said that Epstein had swindled him out of some large amounts of money over the years. But this all coming out because of this past lawsuit, and as the banks and other financial institutions are under fire, as people are trying to understand more about Epstein's, have a number of House Democrats and Senator Wyden asking the bank for more information.

They suspect the bank had turned a blind eye toward Epstein's activities in order to make more fees off of holding millions of dollars in his accounts. So that is kind of the context in which all this is coming out, Jake.

TAPPER: All right. And Andrew, this -- this scandal also has huge fallout in the U.K. The monarchy stripping Andrew of his prince title, a source telling CNN that Andrew is expected to stay in his Royal Lodge through the holidays. Is that, do you think, to avoid awkward conversations during Christmas dinner?

[17:35:04]

ANDREW LOWNIE, HISTORIAN: Yes, I think possibly. I mean, remember this is a large mansion. It's going to take time after 25 years to -- to move out. But yes, clearly he has been distanced from the family and it would be embarrassing if he was there at Sandringham. I think it'll be interesting to see where the children go if they decide to stick with the royal family or stick with their parents.

TAPPER: Virginia Giuffre's brother, Sky Roberts, called for a meeting with King Charles today in hopes that he might be able to get justice, help get justice for Virginia Giuffre, who -- who took her own life earlier this year. Has a member of the royal family, Andrew, ever provided legal assistance for a prosecution against another royal? Has that ever happened?

LOWNIE: No, and I think this is a ridiculous request. It's up to the law authorities here to investigate Andrew. I mean, there's an attempt for a private prosecution at the moment. I think the public pressure on the Metropolitan Police and the National Crime Agency have, I think, persuaded them to reopen their investigations, which, frankly, were -- were not particularly good before.

I -- I actually put in a request to even see if they had investigated Prince Andrew. So I think we need to leave it to law enforcement to follow this through. But I -- I do think that there are grounds for Andrew to be investigated. I think there is a good chance that he may well be charged and that, indeed, he may be convicted.

TAPPER: All right, historian Andrew Lownie and Kara Scannell, thanks to both of you.

A vocal Republican you see often here on CNN, former Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger revealing some alarming threats behind the scenes when he tried to hold folks accountable for the January 6th Capitol attack. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:40:56]

TAPPER: In our Pop Culture Lead, a new documentary streaming on Apple and Amazon Prime Video and elsewhere now, it's titled "The Last Republican." It follows a familiar face here on CNN, former Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger of Illinois in his bold decision to buck President Trump and most of his party after Trump tried to overturn the 2020 election. Here's a little look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADAM KINZINGER, FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: It's not about a political view. It's about what it is to turn against everything you've ever belonged to because of some red line you can't cross.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: And joining us now are the Kinzingers Adam and his wife, Sophia. Adam, so this is titled "The Last Republican." I should note there were 10 Republicans who voted to impeach Trump in the first term, and there are still a handful that occasionally call out the current Trump administration. Senator Rand Paul, for example, on the alleged drug boat strikes. Do you really feel there are no Republicans left who aren't, quote, cowards, as you put it?

A. KINZINGER: I mean, look, do I want to say there's none left? No, it's just hard to find them. And yes, some speak out occasionally. That's great. The thing is, you need to be speaking out more. And I think what concerns me is, you know, I get called a rhino. I'm told I don't belong to the party. I'm told I left the party. And like what I believe and what I say is still the same as what it's always been. And so it feels like the party has moved on for me.

And so that's, I think, why the title that they gave it feels appropriate, because it's kind of like the last man standing with old school Republican values.

TAPPER: Yes. Sophia, you were -- you were pregnant with your son during the first January 6th hearing that your husband was actually, you know, obviously a participant in. People were calling his office, making death threats against both of you. What was it like watching all this unfold as you were about to bring a child into the world?

SOFIA KINZINGER, ADAM KINZINGER'S WIFE: It was so hard to watch, especially because January 6th was so -- we had just gotten married before January 6th. It was my first actual moment realizing how threats are real. We had experienced several threats following the 2020 election.

And that day, honestly, had so was so transformative in the way I saw the role that I played as a spouse. And going back to that hearing and reliving everything, knowing that I obviously was pregnant and how my life would have been so different if things would have ended, I guess, more tragically than they did. It was so moving. And -- and -- and even watching the documentary still pulls me back to that day. And it's so much still that I think still needs to that I need to process and sort of yes, still -- still working through it, I guess.

TAPPER: Yes. Adam, you described the moments after January 6th. You thought this was going to be a huge reckoning for Republicans, for Donald Trump. And instead, then Speaker Kevin McCarthy, who you then considered a friend, he went to -- he went to Mar-a-Lago, gave Trump something of a lifeline. You reflected on that, saying, "you can always fix a hangover by starting to drink again."

Do you still feel that that's the state of the Republican Party now that all the January 6 participants have been pardoned? And, you know, even prosecutors get punished in the Justice Department if they even mention the Capitol Hill riot?

A. KINZINGER: Well, to torture that analogy, I feel like they started drinking again and now they're into hard drugs and it's Wednesday and they started that last Friday. So, look, I mean, I felt like after January 6th, like it was kind of like one of those mornings where we're like, what in the world happened? And I think we were close to doing that, Jake. This is the crazy thing is there was that you remember this.

There was a three or four-week period where there was nothing but silence from the GOP trying to figure out what was going on. You heard nothing from Donald Trump. And then that moment, that second that that picture of Kevin McCarthy and Trump popped up, that changed everything. Trump was back in and McCarthy made a deal that I will embrace Trump to make sure I become speaker. And my answer to that is congratulations. You were speaker for eight months, but congrats.

[17:45:19]

TAPPER: Adam, you say you really didn't want to be on the January 6th committee, but you felt like you had to serve. If asked, do you have any regrets about that time?

A. KINZINGER: No, not at all. And, you know, I didn't want to do it when I -- when I got, Nancy, actually, Nancy Pelosi actually kind of announced me on it before she called me. But I -- I just knew, though, that I couldn't like I don't want to get choked up, but I couldn't look at my son and tell him, you know, what it means -- what it means to do the right thing if I'd have said no. You know, if I'd have just been like, no, it's too hard.

Like this is a moment in history that for whatever reason, you know, I was in a position to do something and I have no regrets. And I think history will reflect January 6th accurately and reflect what it was.

TAPPER: Sophia, I'm sure you're proud of your husband. But was there any time that you thought, please, don't be on that committee, please, let's just -- let's just be quiet for the next period?

S. KINZINGER: No, you know, that that first hearing by the end of it, it felt so right. Like it felt so -- that Adam was at the right place at the right time. It was so moving for us to -- and -- and people remember that one that we got, I mean, Adam got a chance to speak directly to all those the Capitol Police and -- and the D.C. Metro police that were so traumatized. It just felt so good to be there, to remind them how the amazing job they did and validate what they went through, because nobody else from the party was doing that.

And it felt right. It felt the right time also for us as a family, even though looking back crazy times. But no, there's no regret. And in a weird way, we were -- we never I guess I -- I never questioned Adam. And I guess Adam never asked me for if I would be on board because he knew from the start I was. It was something very -- it just flowed. And we were together and never look back. And still we feel we -- we -- we both don't have regrets about anything.

TAPPER: Former Congressman Adam Kinzinger, Sophia Kinzinger, thank you. And congratulations on the streaming release of the film.

A. KINZINGER: You bet. Thank you.

TAPPER: In our money leave the rapidly changing media landscape. Variety reports that star anchor Gayle King is expected to depart CBS Mornings next year, but that seems to be news to King, who told TMZ earlier today, "What I'm hearing in the building is not what I'm reading in the press." It's the latest example of uncertainty and instability and rumors spreading like wildfire stemming from billionaire David Ellison's recent takeover of Paramount and his decision to appoint Barry Weiss as editor in chief of CBS News.

Ellison has also been exploring taking over Warner Brothers Discovery, CNN's parent company, I should note, although Reuters reports that Netflix might want in on WBD studio and streaming businesses. Let's discuss all of it with Matt Belloni, co-founder of Puck News. And Matt, when you look at the scope of changes coming to the media landscape as of late, seismic -- seismic seems to sum it up, don't you think?

MATT BELLONI, FOUNDING PARTNER, PUCK: Absolutely. And we kind of all knew this was coming. The Internet has completely disrupted the television business. Netflix is on the rise. Prime Video, all the tech companies are now in the media business. But it's really come to a head lately and we're going to see some consolidation.

TAPPER: When it comes to the part of this that has to do with news. How much of the change do you think is a direct result of the Trump administration taking, let's say, a vocal litigious occasionally approach to how news is covered or -- or not covered?

BELLONI: Well, I think that's a great point, because clearly these large media companies are reacting to Trump. They're changing their policies. They are, in some cases, paying him off. In the case of Amazon, they're making a $40 million documentary about Melania Trump that she is participating in and that will air on Prime Video.

But I think it really went into high gear with the Ellison family. Larry Ellison, who is a founder of Oracle, one of the richest men in the world, is a very close relationship with Trump. And Trump has been very friendly to CBS since the transaction closed and the Ellison's now own CBS. We see news today that Trump is going to sit down with 60 Minutes for an interview for this Sunday. This is a news broadcast that Trump was suing not six months ago.

[17:49:57]

TAPPER: That's fascinating. What kind of changes do you think Barry Weiss is going to bring to CBS News? We see a lot of people wringing their hands and seem very worried about it. Other people think CBS News could become more fair, all legacy media could become more fair. What -- what's your take?

BELLONI: I think there's a pro and a con. Clearly, this is someone who has does not have very much familiarity with television news. She comes from an opinion background and she's a big proponent for the causes she cares about, such as Israel and kind of the anti-woke movement that you read about a lot. So I think from that perspective, I think a lot of people at CBS are worried that she's coming there with an agenda.

And we've already seen some things that have moved the -- the coverage scope of CBS towards a more pro-Israel agenda. Secondly, I think that she's just a breath of fresh air from a younger perspective. She's 42 years old. Maybe it's not such a bad thing to have someone who comes from outside being involved in these decisions.

And, you know, Ellison is very keen on -- on changing the narrative because he knows that poll after poll shows that Americans do not trust the media. And if he can at least change the perception a little, that's a benefit in his eyes.

TAPPER: Speaking of Paramount, Paramount just opened the door and said goodbye to one of their most creative forces, Taylor Sheridan, who is behind, you know, the guy behind "Yellowstone" and "Tulsa King" and "Landman" and a whole bunch of other very popular shows. He's now going to NBC Universal for a deal that's about a billion dollars, potentially a billion dollars.

This at the same time that companies all over Amazon and Paramount this week are slashing staff. Make sense of that for me, if you will. The industry is so wrapped with -- with problems that they're laying people off. But -- but they got a billion dollars for Sheridan.

BELLONI: Yes, I mean, Hollywood is in this weird spot right now where they're forced to cut costs. There's competition from big tech, but there's also competition for talent. So for the right things, these companies will pony up. Paramount paid $7.7 billion for the UFC on CBS and Paramount Plus. The South Park guys got 1.5 billion. Taylor Sheridan, if he performs when this deal starts, it's a five year deal that starts in three years. He can make up to a billion dollars.

But at the same time, they're paying for this by slashing everywhere else. And it's just really becoming top heavy. And they feel they need to do this to compete with the big tech companies. TAPPER: I should note that I'm a big fan of Taylor Sheridan. I'm not saying it's not worth it, but it just is interesting. Matt Belloni, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

[17:52:54]

Coming up next, one of the most appalling global conflicts that has both Republican and Democratic senators trying to take action. We'll tell you more.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our World Lead, what both Republican and Democratic U.S. Senators agree are horrors being inflicted on innocent civilians. This is happening in Northeast Africa, specifically Sudan. It involves a paramilitary organization called the Rapid Support Forces or RSF.

U.S. Senators want the Trump administration to designate RSF a terrorist organization and after you see this report from CNN's Nada Bashir, you'll know why. We want to warn you some of the pictures you're about to see are deeply disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

NADA BASHIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With each passing day, more harrowing videos emerge from Al Fashir in Sudan's Darfur region. In the wake of the retreat of the Sudanese Armed Forces and a violent takeover by the paramilitary Rapid Support Forces, civilians in the besieged city have faced atrocities on an unthinkable scale.

Some of the footage we have obtained from Al Fashir is simply too graphic for CNN to broadcast. Civilians gunned down as they attempt to flee, bodies strewn on the ground, lying in pools of blood filmed by RSF fighters. In this video, two men are stopped by an RSF vehicle. Within seconds, one of them is shot, the other is heard pleading with the soldiers. Moments later, we hear another gunshot as the camera pans back around, the man is seen lying motionless on the ground.

DENISE BROWN, U.N. RESIDENT COORDINATOR IN SUDAN: We have received credible reports of summary executions of unarmed men lying on the ground being shot, and of civilians as they try and flee the city.

BASHIR (voice-over): The scale of these attacks are such that evidence of the RSF atrocities are now visible from space. With indicators of bodies and what appear to be large bloodstains detected by experts at the Yale Humanitarian Research Lab. In satellite imagery of Al Fashir's Al-Saudi Hospital, clusters of white objects consistent with the size and shape of bodies and reddish discolorization nearby appear to reflect reports of mass killings in the area.

As documented by the Sudan doctor's network, which claims that the RSF, "cold bloodedly" killed everyone they found inside the Al-Saudi Hospital, turning it into a human slaughter house. The RSF has described the claims as baseless. But according to the U.N., nearly 500 people were killed in the assault.

NATHANIEL RAYMOND, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, YALE HUMANITARIAN RESEARCH LAB: They're moving neighborhood-to-neighborhood. They are systematically wiping out those they find that have remained.

[18:00:01]

BASHIR (voice-over): The paramilitary group has acknowledged what they have described as violations in Al Fashir.

MOHAMED HAMDAN DAGALO, HEAD OF SUDANESE RAPID SUPPORT FORCES: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

BASHIR (voice-over): Its leader Mohamed Hamdan Dagalo saying in a statement that an investigation will be carried out to hold those responsible for criminal acts accountable. In a directive issued to its fighters, RSF leaders also called on all personnel to adhere to rules of conduct and to ensure the protection of civilians.

Nada Bashir, CNN in London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)