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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Senate Prepares To Vote On Ending Government Shutdown; Jake Tapper Interviews Arizona Congresswoman-elect Adelita Grijalva; FAA Faces Staffing Crisis Over Shutdown; One-On-One With California Governor Gavin Newsom; Trump Pardons Allies Who Tried To Overturn 2020 Election; Trump Shares Fake Story From A Parody Website About Obama Earning Royalties From Obamacare. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired November 10, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

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KASIE HUNT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: All right, thank you all for joining me today. Wonderful to have all of you. Wonderful to have you at home as well. Don't forget, you can now stream "The Arena" live. You can catch up whenever you want in the CNN app. You can scan the Q.R. code below. It will take you right there. You can also catch up and listen to "The Arena" podcast. You can follow us on X and Instagram @thearenacnn. Don't go anywhere. "The Lead with Jake Tapper" starts right now.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Is the longest government shutdown in the history of the country about to come to an end or not? "The Lead" starts right now.

Welcome to "The Lead." I'm Jake Tapper on Capitol Hill. And breaking news this hour, at any moment, almost every Senate Republican and eight Senate Democrats are going to vote on funding the federal government. Also coming up, the -- a wave of staffing problems as a result of the shutdown. Airlines are ready to cancel even more flights. If the government does reopen soon, how quickly can planes get back on schedule? What the White House said today about the busy Thanksgiving holiday travel period. And could you, the American taxpayer, be getting a $2,000 rebate? The fine print taking shape today as the president again floated this idea.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): This is CNN Breaking News.

TAPPER: Welcome to "The Lead." I'm Jake Tapper on Capitol Hill. And as I mentioned, our breaking news is out at any moment. Almost every Senate Republican and eight Senate Democrats are expected to vote for what they are calling a compromise government spending bill. Finally, some progress towards ending the longest government shutdown in U.S. history, which has left air travel in chaos, food stamp benefits in limbo, and federal workers without pay.

Here is where things stand right at this minute. The Senate vote to reopen the government is about to happen because last night, that group of eight moderate Democrats dropped their key demand, a guaranteed extension of Obamacare subsidies, which expire at the end of the year. Most Senate Democrats, we believe, are going to vote no. And many Democrats on Capitol Hill are furious because they think they have little to show for their fight on health care.

Here is what some of the compromise bill would do. It would fund the government through January 30th. It would guarantee pay for furloughed federal workers and those who worked without pay. It would reverse Trump's firing of federal employees during the shutdown and prevent any future such reduction in force or rifts. It would also fund food stamps through 2026. And also, they would guarantee a vote, a separate vote in the Senate on Obamacare subsidies.

It is not clear whether there would be enough support in the U.S. Senate to extend those subsidies, just a vote on it. And the House of Representatives has not agreed to even voting on that measure at all. Moreover, the Senate compromise bill, presuming it passes, is going to face intense resistance from Democrats once it gets to the House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): It will be unaffordable for working class Americans, middle class Americans, and everyday Americans to be able to go see a doctor when they need one, and will continue to wage this fight no matter what comes over to us from the United States Senate to the House of Representatives at some point this week.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: That was House Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries, the speaker of the House, told House members this morning that they need to start heading back to D.C. now, given that they may, of course, run into trouble as they fly back to vote this week because the shutdown's impact on our air travel continues to worsen, as anyone who attempted to fly this weekend can tell you, following last week's FAA order to reduce domestic flights at 40 airports.

As of this morning, commercial airlines have canceled more than 5,000 flights that were scheduled from yesterday through this Wednesday. Around 10% of scheduled flights were canceled yesterday, making it the fourth worst day for cancellations this year. Today, reports of staffing issues at air traffic control facilities have gone up to at least 36, causing widespread delays.

Even if the shutdown is resolved this week, we should note, experts say to expect residual impacts on travel with Thanksgiving, of course, right around the corner. But let's start right now our show on Capitol Hill with the speaker of the House, Mike Johnson. Speaker Johnson, thanks for being here. We appreciate it.

So, every Republican in the House, every single one, which is -- doesn't happen very often, voted for the clean government funding bill on September 19th. Will they all vote for this compromise, do you think?

MIKE JOHNSON, SPEAKER OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES: I believe they will. The long national nightmare is almost coming to an end now, the beginning of the end, as I said this morning in my press conference. It was long overdue. And the irony is, Jake, it really was a shutdown about nothing.

[17:05:00]

I mean, what we're voting on is effectively exactly what we offered them several weeks back. Um, we've added some appropriations bills now, which we're in favor of because it's getting us back to the regular order. We'll take care of some other details. But I don't think Chuck Schumer got anything out of this other than a political show. And sadly, I think that's what he was after the whole time.

TAPPER: So, a source on today's House GOP conference call said that you told members that you're hoping for a Wednesday House vote to reopen the government. Um, the shutdown air travel chaos obviously is, you know, you -- you can't predict that.

JOHNSON: It's a challenge for us. For sure, I'd like to vote tonight after the Senate is done, but it takes everybody a while to get back. We have people coming from the West Coast. We have a member flying in from Guam. So, he has 20 hours just to get to the West Coast and then get here. So --

TAPPER: Yeah.

JOHNSON: -- we've to get everybody back. Um, we're -- we're praying that they can make it through the chaos that all the other American people have been made to suffer through because of this needless political show that the Democrats have been engaging in.

TAPPER: But you'll wait until you have the votes before you have the vote.

JOHNSON: We -- we need to get everybody back.

TAPPER: Yeah.

JOHNSON: I mean, everybody at both parties. I've told them to start the travel earlier today. So, I expect and hope that we'll have everybody here.

TAPPER: So, the Senate bill is setting a date for Senate vote on extending the Obamacare subsidies, which are set to expire at the end of the year. You have not committed to a separate House vote on the issue.

Thirteen of your most vulnerable members, as you know, wrote a letter to you saying that after the shutdown -- quote -- "We should immediately turn our focus to the growing crisis of health care affordability and the looming expiration of the enhanced Affordable Care Act premium tax credits. While we did not create this crisis, we now have both the responsibility and the opportunity to address it."

That's 13 members. Are you going to listen to them?

JOHNSON: Yeah. I've been in contact with those members and all of our members throughout the entire ordeal that we've been going through. This is a very important point. We were always open to sitting down to negotiate and talk through how to reduce health care costs. It's a crisis for the American people. The cost has skyrocketed.

It's the Democrats who put us into this scenario. Remember, they're the ones that created the ACA. We call it the Unaffordable Care Act. That's exactly what's been yielded. Since 2010, since they put it into law, premiums have skyrocketed, some estimates 60% overall, and they're continuing to go up.

TAPPER: Well, premiums were skyrocketing before Obamacare, too.

JOHNSON: Not at -- not at this pace. And the problem is now, it's becoming completely unaffordable for more and more people. The Democrat solution is to subsidize the broken system. We would like to go in and look at the root causes of why those costs are so high. And we've been doing that. It's not just talking points. We have had laws signed into law, this Congress that had begun to chip away at that. There's a lot more yet to do. But we've got to build consensus between the parties that should be bipartisan. We're looking forward to that.

TAPPER: That's a long-term, uh, issue, though, what you're talking about. You're not going to be able to solve this issue of skyrocketing premiums, not just in Obamacare, for everything.

JOHNSON: Well --

TAPPER: Premiums are going up in Obamacare, yes. They're also going up for people not in Obamacare for -- like me and you.

JOHNSON: Well, there are short-term solutions and longer-term solutions.

TAPPER: Right.

JOHNSON: It's very complicated.

TAPPER: But on the short-term issue of the people with the subsidies, and that's going to expire at the end of the year, will you have a vote on the issue as your 13 Republicans, frontline Republicans, people that are -- that -- you're the speaker because of them.

JOHNSON: Yes.

TAPPER: They're in districts that are vulnerable.

JOHNSON: Sure.

TAPPER: Will you have a vote so they can vote?

JOHNSON: The very people that you were citing in the letter believe we have to have a real reform. So, what I'm -- what I'm committed to and I have all along, this has never changed, is a deliberative process that we do in the House. We have a very small margin. Majorities -- whomever has the majority now in this era is going to have a small margin. And so, it requires the involvement of lot of members.

See the problem that I had with Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries is Leader Schumer was insisting that I go into a back room, Leader Thune and I, go into a back room with he and Jeffries and do a four corners agreement to fix this. It's not possible. It was never appropriate to do that on a short-term funding measure. We needed the month of October, November, December to work through this. And ironically, because of his shenanigans, they've now taken all that time off the clock. So, we have a lot more important work to do in a shorter time period.

TAPPER: Congressman Don Bacon, who's retiring, uh, of Nebraska, he has been working with Congressman Tom Suozzi, a moderate Democrat from New York, about this exact issue, about reforms on these subsidies. It means testing, uh, having the payments directly go to the insurance companies instead of to the businesses than the insurance companies. Is that something you're willing to let come up for a vote?

JOHNSON: That's one of many ideas that are on the table. The problem is when you're subsidizing insurance companies, they just jack the rates up even higher. I mean, we've been seeing this over and over and over. So, the solution is, again, to get at the root causes.

I'll give you an example. In the big, beautiful bill, the working families tax cut, we had the Medicaid reforms. So, as we've discussed many times, what we did was we went in to eliminate the fraud, waste, and abuse and drive down the cost. The CBO, the Congressional Budget Office, evaluated that and said, you know what, that's right, it will achieve that, it'll save $185 billion for taxpayers --

TAPPER: Hmm.

JOHNSON: -- because you got, uh, ineligible enrollees off the system. We need to do that same thing across the board through health care. We tried that in the big, beautiful bill when it went over to the Senate and the House version. We included a cost-sharing reduction program that would have reduced premiums 12.7% overall on average nationwide.

[17:10:04]

TAPPER: Yeah.

JOHNSON: The Democrats fought in the Senate to take it out of the bill. So, there are a lot of ideas that we'd like to bring back to the table because that will actually solve the problem and not just subsidize insurance companies.

TAPPER: So, you're not committing to bringing up a bill that deals with the Obamacare subsidies before they expire?

JOHNSON: I'm not committing to it or not committing to it. What I'm saying is that we do a deliberative process. It's the way this always works and we have to have time to do that, and we will in a bipartisan fashion.

TAPPER: If something passes the Senate, it would only pass on a bipartisan basis.

JOHNSON: Yeah.

TAPPER: Would you bring it up?

JOHNSON: Uh, well, the bill that's going to pass --

TAPPER: To extend the subsidies, that later vote.

JOHNSON: I can't commit to anything that hasn't even passed through the Senate yet. I mean, I -- I've never done that. I'm very consistent. I've been speaker for over two years. And one of the reasons I've held them (INAUDIBLE) is because I don't go out and predetermine outcomes. It's a member-driven, uh, institution as it should be, and I'm really insistent about that. We've got to get back to regular order, and that's what we're doing here.

TAPPER: President Trump today on Truth Social said that air traffic controllers should get back to work. He said he's going to recommend a $10,000 bonus for any controllers who took no time off. And he said, well, anyone who doesn't show up will be substantially docked. He then went on to say -- quote -- "For those who did nothing but complain and took time off even though everyone knew they would be paid in full shortly into the future, I am NOT HAPPY WITH YOU" -- all caps.

Now, as the transportation secretary, Sean Duffy, has said to me on my show and to plenty of other people, these air traffic controllers, some of them called into work, uh, and said they couldn't come in because they had to take a job as -- as an Uber driver or lift driver just to put gas in their car so they could get to work the next day.

JOHNSON: Yeah.

TAPPER: Um, do you think the president realizes this?

JOHNSON: I -- I think he does. I spent some time yesterday talking to my good friend, Sean Duffy, who's a former colleague, now the secretary of transportation, and I was with the president last night. We have a lot of sympathy for the people who have, at great personal sacrifice, gone to the towers, gone to work and done their job. The president wants to reward that, and I -- I -- I appreciate that sentiment. It would take an act of Congress, I'm sure, to make that happen, but it's the right -- it's the right idea.

TAPPER: He says, "I am NOT HAPPY WITH YOU," all caps. I mean --

JOHNSON: Well, look, on an individual basis, there may be some people that abuse the program. I mean, it wasn't just air traffic controllers, of course. I mean, we asked border patrol agents, TSA agents, and many other categories of federal employees --

TAPPER: Right.

JOHNSON: -- including all the employees that keep this place in operation.

TAPPER: Our Capitol Hill police officers, right?

JOHNSON: All of them, the ones that are protecting us right now. I mean, they've been working without pay. And so, we have great sympathy for them. We'd like to reward that any way we can. It's a patriotic duty that they've built for their country.

TAPPER: Um, when the House returns, so I guess presumably Wednesday, if your prayers come true, Wednesday --

JOHNSON: Yes.

TAPPER: -- when are you going to swear in Congresswoman-elect Adelita Grijalva of Arizona who was elected way back in September?

JOHNSON: Yeah. Just as I promised, as soon as we get back to legislative session. So, I mean, before we have this vote that we're talking about, she'll be administered to the oath.

TAPPER: After the House gavels in, but before the vote?

JOHNSON: Right. Yeah. Sure. As soon as we get started. Yeah.

TAPPER: And then she has said that she is going to be the 218th vote to force the discharge petition to release the Epstein files, etcetera, etcetera.

JOHNSON: She has the right. I mean, that's immaterial to us. It's now a moot point, by the way. The Oversight Committee has been delving in deeply to the Epstein investigation, and they -- they've released 43,000 pages of the Epstein files, more to come. Subpoenas are being complied with.

By the way, the latest batch was the Epstein estate files that is not even considered in the discharge petition, was never mentioned. But that was a treasure trove of information. And they released his personal logs, his flight logs, his financial records, and even his daily calendar. So, there's plenty of oversight. All of that information is going to be released to the public. The only thing they're redacting, Jake, is the names of the innocent victims.

TAPPER: Sure.

JOHNSON: We insisted upon that and everybody of common sense understands why that is.

TAPPER: Of course. Of course, the survivors. Speaker Mike Johnson, thank you so much. Really appreciate your time. I hope the government opens.

JOHNSON: Yes. Me, too.

TAPPER: All right. Thanks so much. Soon, we're going to get another side of the debate. Senator Bernie Sanders is going to be here. He's an independent who caucuses with Democrats. He's among those voting against the plan to reopen the government, and he wants to keep pushing for better health care protections for all Americans, he says. We're going to get his take on that, coming up at the top of the hour.

But first, nearly seven weeks after her election win, I'm going to talk to the woman still waiting to become the newest member of Congress as soon as the shutdown ends. Congresswoman-elect Grijalva will join us next.

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[17:15:00]

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TAPPER: We're on Capitol Hill following the breaking news. Lawmakers trying to end the government shutdown, now in day 41, assuming that this compromise bill or whatever you want to call it passes the Senate where a vote should come any minute. That will set up a House vote, which you just heard Speaker Mike Johnson say will likely come on Wednesday.

I'm joined now by Arizona Democratic Congresswoman-elect Adelita Grijalva, who joins us from her district in Tucson. And just to remind folks, you were elected to Congress back on September 23rd in a special election to fill your late father's seat. You still have not been sworn in. You just heard the speaker of the House say that that will happen as soon as the House gavels open, but before, uh, the votes on this compromise government funding bill. What's your reaction?

ADELITA GRIJALVA, ARIZONA CONGRESSWOMAN-ELECT: Um, you know, it has been 48 days of waiting. And so, until we get that official notice through Leader Jeffries, because that's really the only communication that I've had about anything that's going on with the speaker or his office or opportunities like this in media, until I get that, I -- you know, I'll start to really, um, think about, you know, how -- the impact of this. It has been a really long wait, incredibly frustrating, but more importantly frustrating for the American people to have sit out, you know, a shutdown that was completely unnecessary.

TAPPER: So, your first vote will be on this compromise that will likely pass the Senate any minute. Um, are you going to vote for it or against it?

GRIJALVA: I'm going to vote against it. This compromise, if you want to call it that, does nothing to save health care for the American people. I mean, one of the things that I heard very clearly throughout this time of waiting is, like, thank you for fighting for us.

[17:20:01]

We know that it's hard, but you are fighting for us, and I -- we appreciate it. And when you hear from -- I hear from families that, you know, their premiums used to be $500 a month, and they just received their bill that it's going to be $2,400 a month to cover themselves and their families. There's no way to do that.

And so, that horrible bill that passed did nothing for health care and actually cut people out. So, when listening to Speaker Johnson talk about, you know -- I mean, it's just sorts of we're living in like two different worlds of accountability and accessibility because that bill hurt the American people specifically as it relates to health care.

TAPPER: How has the shutdown affected your constituents in Arizona where you are right now?

GRIJALVA: You know, we have 58,000 federal workers in Arizona. We have many people that are hired either through, you know, universities or other organizations with government contracts. All of them, those have been stopped. I think it's incredibly hard to plan out your life when you're not sure where food is going to come from, was just at a food distribution from the community food bank for federal workers specifically. And these are people that work every day, 40 hours a week, and never thought that they would be in this position where they needed to have help in order to put food on the table. That's harmful.

And, you know, this shutdown has really highlighted some legislation that needs to come forward, including requiring that Congress, House and Senate continue to work through and negotiate to prevent a shutdown and to not prolong it unnecessarily. I mean, this is horrible.

And also, the precedent that Speaker Johnson has set in, you know, having a person who was duly elected wait, you know, 48 days before being sworn in, that's a scary precedent that also needs to be corrected with legislation. No one person should have the right to mute the voices of 813,000 people.

TAPPER: Well, if it makes you feel any better, you haven't missed any votes. Have you booked your flight? Are you confident you can get here in time?

GRIJALVA: Um, I believe I can get there in time. I'm probably going to have to drive to a bigger city closer to Phoenix. Yeah, but I missed -- I haven't missed any votes, but I really missed the opportunity to be able to help constituents that are here that need services.

TAPPER: Yeah.

GRIJALVA: So, it has been very -- it has been very difficult to sit it out while people come up to me and ask me for help because, as you mentioned at the beginning, my dad held this position in Congress for 22 years, was a fixture --

TAPPER: Yeah.

GRIJALVA: -- in this community, and everyone knew that they could always come to Grijalva for help, and that's what I want to be able to do for the people here in Southern Arizona.

TAPPER: How soon are you going to sign that discharge petition? You will be the 218th signature, and that will force a vote on the House floor, and that will require the Justice Department to release all the Epstein files. Are you going to do that after you vote on the -- against the compromise bill? Is that going to happen as soon as you're a member of Congress? When are you going to do it?

GRIJALVA: As -- as soon as I can because that was a promise and commitment that I made. And I strongly believe it's one of the reasons why I've been in this limbo for so long. So, I want to make sure that people understand that when I make a commitment and say I'm going to do something, I do it.

TAPPER: Arizona congresswoman-elect, soon to be Congresswoman Adelita Grijalva, thanks so much. Next time I see you, hopefully, there won't be an elect suffix after congresswoman. Good to see you again.

GRIJALVA: Thank you. You, too.

TAPPER: Coming up next, the growing fallout from the shutdown. It's impacting hundreds of thousands of Americans in various ways, especially with air travel. Today, 36 reports of air traffic staffing problems causing delays and cancellations. Is air safety an issue? We're going to get into that ahead.

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[17:25:00]

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TAPPER: Internationally, despite a potential deal to end the government shutdown, there have been at least 36 reports of staffing issues at airports across the U.S. Just today, more than 2,000 flights have been canceled and more than 7,000 delayed.

President Trump took to Truth Social to demand that air traffic controllers -- quote -- "get back to work now." He also said controllers who don't show up for work will have a negative mark in his mind. And if they chose to leave during the shutdown, they will get no pay -- or chose to leave at all, they will get no payment or severance of any kind and will be replaced, he says, by -- quote -- "true patriots."

Let's bring in CNN aviation correspondent Pete Muntean. Pete, moving to what travelers can expect, are things going to get better this week, assuming the shutdown ends Wednesday or Thursday?

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's some hope that that will happen, at least from the White House, although we need to reality check that. Today, not really looking all that good. First, though, got to talk about the president's post on True Social. It's not really landing with the head of the union of controllers. He underscores that controllers are not calling out sick in protest, but rather for legitimate reasons like due to the added financial stress of working without pay for six weeks. Controllers get another zero- dollar paycheck tomorrow.

So, it's no real surprise here that the list of spots that are short on controllers continues to grow. Today alone, you mentioned 36 air traffic control facilities have reported staffing problems. That includes the towers at Chicago O'Hare, Dallas Fort Worth, Phoenix Sky Harbor, huge hubs for American Airlines.

[17:30:01]

You can also have the towers at San Francisco and LAX to the list. This is all on the heels of the worst weekend for air traffic control staffing since the shutdown began.

[17:30:01]

The FAA reported roughly 150 shortages at 50 different air traffic control facilities everywhere from Anchorage to San Juan. That pushed the list of cancellations up and up, 1,500 Saturday, then nearly double that on Sunday. It was the fourth worst day for flight cancellations since the start of last year.

Today, not looking great either. More than 2,100 cancellations, 7,000 delays for all reasons, not just staffing, some of it's weather. I want you to listen now to the director of the National Economic Council who just said on Fox News, there is light at the end of the tunnel, that air travel chaos is nearly behind us. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEVIN HASSETT, NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL DIRECTOR: And so now that the government looks like it's going to open, I have high confidence that by the Thanksgiving weekend that Secretary Duffy is going to be able to get it almost back to normal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MUNTEAN: Tomorrow, the Trump administration is ramping up its mandate for airlines to cancel flights. It calls for airlines to cancel about 6 percent of flights at 40 busy airports starting tomorrow. Remember, this is a Trump administration mandate. That number jumps to 10 percent Friday if the shutdown continues.

Yesterday, Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy told you, Jake, that controllers are quitting at a faster clip due to the shutdown, and the agency remains more than 1,000 controllers short, maybe 2,000, meaning even when this shutdown ends, the staffing issues at air traffic control facilities will still persist. So we are not nearly out of the woods yet.

TAPPER: Pete Muntean, thanks so much.

Coming up, California Governor Gavin Newsom, who's become something of an online troller-in-chief of President Trump. Hear what he told me about his reasoning for all the mockery and why he calls it effective communication.

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[17:36:13]

TAPPER: In our Politics Lead, California Democratic Governor Gavin Newsom, a possible 2028 presidential candidate, came out today against the Democratic compromise with Republicans to reopen the government.

He is embracing his role as leading the resistance to Trump. He spent the weekend rallying Democrats in Texas and trolling President Trump on social media after securing a resounding victory to temporarily gerrymander his state's congressional maps to make them more favorable to Democrats in response to a similar move for Republicans by Texas. I traveled to Texas over the weekend to speak with Governor Newsom. There, I asked him about his strategy of mocking Trump's social media style.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: When you talk about President Trump, you're -- you're gravely serious. When you and your staff tweet about President Trump, it's a little different. You've taken on a real mockery of the President, mimicking his style of writing, using A.I. images. I'm not sitting here tutting you.

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): No.

TAPPER: Just let me just go through the -- let me just go through what you've done. These people don't know.

NEWSOM: All right.

TAPPER: I'm not -- it takes a lot to offend me. Marie Antoinette imagery, calling him a beta, the -- all those -- and all those tweets. And there's been some very interesting response by the President's favorite network where they seem very shocked, very upset by the tone in your tweets.

NEWSOM: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stop it with the Twitter thing. I don't know where his wife is. If he wants an even bigger job, he has to be a little bit more serious.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know what he's trying to do, but -- but it comes across as childish.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A new, performative, confrontational style. Maybe it wins you points with the loony, radical base in your party, but America is not going to vote for that record.

NEWSOM: No, they said, where's his wife? You know, they want to wash my mouth out with soap. Without any situational awareness that they've said not a word about Donald Trump dressing up as the pope, Donald Trump putting his picture up on Mount Rushmore, Donald Trump sending insane all-cap tweets that are just madness.

And so we wanted to put a mirror up to all of this, and we want to do it with a sense of humor, but also a sense of sobriety that this is the President of the United States. What's been interesting about this approach is it's also clarifying because we pulled the curtain back from the wizard, and we've exposed him, weakness masquerading as strength. That's the origin story of Proposition 50. Whilst you say you're entitled to five seats, why do you do midterm redistricting to ask Greg Abbott for something? Because you know you're going to lose the midterms. And he's underwater. I mean, you guys run the polls. Every single category, this guy's historically underwater. He is struggling right now, and the outcome of this election has really exposed him in a way, but we certainly want to keep that mirror up on Trump because I do believe this kind of humor and clarity, I think, is effective communication.

TAPPER: You told the group upstairs, your -- your store, you told the Democrats that you were rallying with, you have a store, you sell Trump knee pads, Trump knee pads for --

NEWSOM: Yes, signature series.

TAPPER: Who -- signature series.

NEWSOM: Yes, sold out at the moment.

TAPPER: Sold out.

NEWSOM: Yes, well, because people have sold out, and because universities have been selling out, because law firms have been selling out, because corporate leaders have been selling out. People are selling out this country.

I mean, we're seeing foreign leaders. I mean, that was -- what an embarrassment. Poor guy over in South Korea handing out this crown. It is embarrassing. Genuflecting. Like it just -- so this is unbecoming from a global perspective, certainly from the prism which we see the world more domestically.

[17:40:02]

And look, the Patriot site's up there for a reason on the lines of why so much is online for a reason, to expose this president, to expose this Pravda network, to expose those that are complicit all around him at this moment.

TAPPER: You have warned that if Americans don't stand up to Trump, quote, we'll lose this republic, we'll lose this democracy.

NEWSOM: Become unrecognizable. I believe that.

TAPPER: How are we --

NEWSOM: I don't think he --

TAPPER: How are we going to lose democracy?

NEWSOM: I don't think he believes in free and fair elections. Why did he send the DOJ into my home state? He had no business, no basis on a statewide ballot. Why is he sending mass men to the kickoff of the Prop 50 campaign? Why did he then bring out the BORTAC units on Election Day in L.A., if not to intimidate? Why did he federalize the National Guard and now is going to have these quick response teams in all 50 states in a matter of weeks? He doesn't believe in mail-in balloting. He gets his cues.

He said this item from Putin himself. The outcome of that election, competitive authoritarianism, was 87.4 percent to 4.3 percent. That's what Trump -- Donald Trump is looking to achieve. I said it upstairs. It's not about the rule of law. It's about the rule of Don. It's the law of the jungle. I don't believe those are hyperbolic words, but I think it's pretty damn chilling, those words, as it was chilling when Donald Trump called Greg Abbott to say he's entitled to five seats. This is not normal times. The rules have changed, and we need to change.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: It's been five years since that infamous four seasons total landscaping appearance by Rudy Giuliani, and President Trump is trying to re-landscape that 2020 election. He's issued pardons for Rudy Giuliani and others who plotted to overturn the results of the 2020 election, but despite the President's efforts, why those on the list could still potentially face charges, that's next.

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[17:46:16]

TAPPER: Another major story in our Politics Lead today, President Trump is pardoning a number of his allies involved in those plans to overturn the 2020 presidential election and steal it from you, the American voter. Figures such as former Trump lawyers Rudy Giuliani and Sidney Powell, and the President's former chief of staff, Mark Meadows, and dozens more are on the list. The pardons only apply to federal crimes, which no one on the list is currently charged with, but those state charges remain pending against several of them.

Former Illinois Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger, who's on the January 6th Committee, and former Trump White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin are joining us now to discuss. So here are a few of the other notable names, guys, of folks who received pardons. Ken Chesebro, John Eastman, those are the two pro-Trump attorneys who were the architects of the scheme to overturn the election with the fake electors.

There's Jenna Ellis and Boris Epstein, two of the Trump campaign lawyers. The former chair of Arizona's Republican Party and her husband. As anti-Trump conservative Sarah Longwell posted on Twitter earlier today, anyone who helps me try to steal an election gets a pardon is perhaps the most corrupt thing to happen in American history. Congressman Kinzinger, your reaction?

ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I fully agree with what she said. I mean, look, I think corruption, by the way, is a very effective line for Democrats to use in terms of running for election, $400 million jet from Qatar. And then making it clear that if you're a friend of mine, I'm going to let you basically get a free pass.

And this is sending a message since they haven't been charged, you know, with corruption federally, it's sending a message to exactly that. I've got you preemptively, I've got your back, and it's a very dangerous message. What's amazing to me, Jake, and I -- I always try to remember mentioning this, is when I was on the January 6th Committee, all the Republicans that I worked with would come up to me and be like, you know, I appreciate what you're doing, but man, it's just time to look forward.

We have to put January 6th behind us. It's time to look forward. This guy, this President, is obsessed with January 6th. He's obsessed with rewriting history. And thankfully, history's not going to reflect his -- his rewrite, but kind of at the moment, it seems to be succeeding a little bit.

TAPPER: Alyssa, between this and those pardons for the January 6th rioters, the criminals, including the folks in those militias, what do you think this step means for Trump's efforts to, as Congressman Kinzinger puts it, rewrite the 2020 election?

ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That's what it is. It's a complete whitewashing of the history of that day. But what's remarkable is actually how effective it's been. And I use this stat all the time because I find it so stunning. So in January 2021, right after the Capitol riot, 51 percent of Republicans strongly disapproved of the events of that day, which I would argue is actually a fairly low number, only about half strongly disapproved.

Four years later, that was down to 30 percent. So a 20-point drop in Republicans who strongly disapproved of attempts to steal an election. So that speaks to having Republican leadership, a President, and also a media ecosystem that supported these sort of fake narratives around what actually happened that day. And I think it should be instructive for us because I think that there's this thought of, well, it couldn't happen again. You know, we made some tweaks to the laws on the books, but that's really not the case.

And this is kind of just icing on the cake to suggest to any future bad actors, if you do something like this, don't worry, I'll be looking out for my guys.

TAPPER: So the pardons on this list do not do anything for those facing state charges. And a number of them potentially are, sources say President Trump is being pressured to intervene in the case of Tina Peters. That is the former Republican Colorado clerk who was found guilty on state charges of participating in a scheme attempting to prove mass voter -- voter fraud in 2020, mass voter fraud that did not exist. Now, Ed Martin, Trump's pardon attorney, he's one of the people behind this push. Alyssa, what are your thoughts on that effort?

[17:50:19]

GRIFFIN: Listen, I mean, it's this, to your point, is symbolic in nature, but I think that this is, Ed Martin said, no MAGA left behind. And I think that that's the attitude that they want to stir up, is they want to suggest that anyone who even has state charges, there may be efforts at least to help. There's a limit to what can be done. That's all done at the state level. The federal government has a very limited capacity to weigh in there. But I do think public pressure can -- can affect cases of that nature. And listen, each of these should be resolved based on the -- the merits of the specific cases against individuals. But I think it is about publicly trying to create some kind of pressure as some of these individuals start to come up for those cases in different states.

TAPPER: Congressman Kinzinger, it strikes me, this idea of no MAGA left behind, I mean, that's a -- that's a play on words of -- of what service members in battle say about each other. Patriots, no man left behind, we're not going to leave any soldiers or service members behind. I mean, as an Air Force veteran, when you hear no MAGA left behind, how -- how does that hit you?

KINZINGER: Well, it's disgusting. I mean, look, that -- that -- the term no man left behind, as you mentioned, has really deep roots, really serious roots, have cost people lives to go, you know, as a country, we send people, in many cases, to their death to save one person.

And so it just sends a terrible message. And what it's also saying is, you know, we always had this idea that Lady Justice had a blindfold because she was blind and she took into account nothing like your political views or your race or anything into justice. And we've tried to fight those areas where there have been shortcomings.

But what Donald Trump is making clear and MAGA is making clear is, you know, there is justice for thee, but not for our side. And it sends a message to local prosecutors of intimidation. Boy, you don't want to charge somebody on the borderline because Donald Trump may come after you. What does that do? And look at what he's done in Brazil, you know, threatening, putting sanctions on, cutting off aid or -- or any help to Brazil because Bolsonaro was indicted and convicted by his own country, by their own judicial system. What can he do to states? Anything.

This guy is unhinged. And look, I just think, to anybody that's defending him right now, understand that three years in office goes by really quickly. Three years ago, it was 2022, which feels like yesterday. This is not going to be looked upon kindly in the history books.

TAPPER: Adam Kinzinger, Alyssa Farah Griffin, thanks to both of you. Appreciate it.

Coming up next, sending the record straight about an online post from President Trump and a false claim about former President Barack Obama.

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[17:57:11]

TAPPER: We're launching a new series called Today at the White House. Getting at exactly that now. What happens daily at the White House? And today we're asking questions about a truth social post from the President. He posted, or truthed, a fake story about former President Obama getting paid royalties for Obamacare. There is no truth to that.

The claim, if you can call it that, originated on a website called the Dunning-Kruger Times, which notes on its About section, quote, everything on this website is fiction, unquote. Everything. As for the Dunning-Kruger Times followers, well, the website calls those folks taters, quote, or conservative fans of America's last line of defense, which is the spinoff network.

Dunning-Kruger Times describes taters as fragile, frightened, mostly older, Caucasian Americans who believe nearly anything, unquote. As for that flagship, America's last line of defense, it describes itself as a, quote, network of trollery and propaganda for cash.

And yet, President Trump posted something from that site, on Truth Social, as if it were a true and factual news story from a legitimate source. President Trump even wrote, in all caps, wow. Wow indeed.

America's last line of defense says that the Obamacare royalties headline is one of its most popular. It's an original first published in 2017 and, of course, completely false. On the name, the Dunning- Kruger Times, by the way, a bit of a back story for you.

That stems from the Dunning-Kruger effect. It's a sociological study. After a bank robbery in 1995 outside Pittsburgh, the bank robbers had no masks, no disguise, no sunglasses, no mustaches. Yet they were stunned when they were caught when surveillance cameras picked them up.

You see the headline from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette here. Quote, arrest and bank robbery suspects. T.V. picture spurs tips. So why were they surprised? Well, they for some reason believed that if they put lemon juice on their faces, they would become invisible.

A Cornell professor of psychology, David Dunning, heard that news story and was stunned. He wanted to find out more with his study co- author Justin Kruger. Their research was titled, quote, unskilled and unaware of it. How difficulties in recognizing one's own incompetence leads to inflated self assessments, unquote.

The study suggests that the less somebody knows about a subject, the more they think that they are an expert on that subject. In other words, stupid people don't know how stupid they are because they are so stupid. That's what the Dunning-Kruger effect is, and that's why it's called the Dunning-Kruger Times.

[18:00:11]

We asked the White House for comment about why the president reposted this story from the Dunning-Kruger Times. The statement that they sent back from the White House that didn't address why the President shared that false headline.