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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Federal Agencies Begin to Reopen After Longest Shutdown Ends; Judge to Rule Soon on Comey, James' Effort to Oust Prosecutor; GOP Bracing for Mass Defections on Epstein Files Vote. BBC Apologizes To Trump Over Documentary Edit Of His Speech; Pelosi Backs Schumer Amid Backlash To Shutdown Deal. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired November 13, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to the lead. I'm Pamela Brown in for Jake Tapper.

[18:00:01]

And this hour, the federal government is officially back open, but the struggles continue. Workers who haven't gotten paid in weeks are still waiting for their checks. Food stamp recipients still haven't gotten their full benefits, and thousands of flights were canceled or delayed today. So, how long will it take for everything to finally get back to normal?

Plus, new CNN reporting into the special treatment that sources say Epstein's accomplice, Ghislaine Maxwell, is getting in prison, and how some of her fellow inmates allege they were punished for speaking out about it.

Also, two Trump foes both in court today in an attempt to get their cases thrown out. Lawyers for James Comey and Letitia James say the prosecutor who brought their charges is unlawfully serving in her post. Did the judge give any hints as to how she might rule?

And a CNN exclusive with the Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro, his message for President Trump and for the American people, as the U.S. military deploys warships to the Caribbean and ramps up strikes on alleged drug trafficking boats.

The Lead tonight, the longest government shutdown of all time is over with the president signing the House-passed funding package into law late last night. But the work to reopen the government is just beginning. Federal employees now are waiting for 43 days of back pay. Air travel remains slow to dozens of the nation's busiest hubs, all still under Tuesday's FAA ordered to cancel 6 percent of flights.

The 42 million Americans who rely on SNAP food assistance may still have to wait a bit until they get their November benefits. Agriculture Secretary Brooke Rollins told me this this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROOKE ROLLINS, AGRICULTURE SECRETARY: Hopefully by the end of this week, most will receive it at the very latest on Monday.

It's moving. It's coming. And for those who really depend on it, good news is on the way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: All right. Let's get to see's Kaitlan Collins. Kaitlan?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Pam, obviously the president signing that bill. As you noted late last night here, you don't often see him in the Oval Office around 10:00 P.M., but he was surrounded by the House speaker, Mike Johnson, and other Republican members of Congress, as they were celebrating this longest government shutdown on record now coming to an end. But it does take some time, as you noted, for the federal government to get back open.

And, you know, the SNAP benefits that have been at the center of this fight in the last few weeks of this government shutdown, that has been such a big concern for people in different states and whether or not they were getting part of their benefits, all of their benefits, or none of them, that still takes some time to go into effect despite what the Ag secretary, Brooke Rollins, said about that starting to get into place. A lot of these states are still having to deal with what this looks like as the federal government is reopening. It's not something they can just do with a magic wand.

And so, obviously, we'll be watching that closely to see how that process plays out. But it also comes as we saw the solicitor general for the United States withdrawing that appeal that they had filed in court as they were trying to argue with the courts that were saying they had to pay out the full SNAP benefits. He was saying, well, now that the government is reopened, it's basically a moot point, and so that didn't need to be filed inside court anymore.

But, overall, Pam, as the White House is getting over this government shutdown and now moving forward and dealing with the fallout of other things that were also a result of the shutdown ending, like the Jeffrey Epstein discharge petition that got its 218th signature when that new House Democrat was sworn in last night, there was also a conversation here at the White House about what was at the center of this fight for Democrats, which is the extension of those Obamacare subsidies, because they are still set to expire at the end of next month.

And it is still a question of how the White House is going to handle that and what it's going to look like. The president has been railing against Obamacare in the last few days. He did so last night as he was signing that bill inside the Oval Office and talking about how expensive it was. But there is a real question looming for Republicans here in Washington, Pam, which is how they're going to handle that and what that's going to look like going forward.

Because I've had some Republican senators tell me they're going to put up a dueling bill on healthcare when those Obamacare extensions is put on the floor in the Senate next month, as John Thune has promised to Democrats, it's still a real question though of what that's going to look like, what Republicans are prepared to deliver to voters. Obviously, that's something that's been a long struggle for them, and it is still very much a real question for them here in Washington, despite this government shutdown coming to an end.

BROWN: Yes and time is of the essence because, as you noted, those premiums are going up.

Kaitlan Collins at the White House, thank you so much. And be sure to watch Kaitlan's show tonight, The Source with Kaitlan Collins. She'll speak to Epstein and Maxwell Survivor Annie Farmer. That's tonight at 9:00 Eastern on CNN. Don't miss it.

Well, even with the government now reopened, airlines are warning that normal travel patterns are still days away. Across the U.S. today, more than 1,000 flights were canceled and 2,200 were still delayed.

So, let's get to CNN's Pete Muntean at Reagan National Airport near Washington. When could we see air travel get back on track? I know a lot of us are thinking about the holidays here, Pete.

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the shutdown hangover, Pamela, has not really worn off yet for the airlines.

[18:05:03]

The good news here is the reports of short staffing and air traffic control facilities across the country has gone way, way down. The high watermark was about 63 facilities with short staffing on Saturday. Now that number down into the single digits.

The big question now, though, for airlines and for travelers, how long will airlines have to comply with this Trump administration mandate to slash their schedules by 6 percent at 40 major airports across the country until further notice? Here is the new memo from American Airlines to all of its employees, in which it says it may still take a few days for normal controller operations to resume, and we may need to continue to reduce schedules to comply with the FAA's emergency order requirements.

I want you to listen now to Delta Airlines CEO Ed Bastian. He says that he's feeling positive with the Thanksgiving rush on the horizon, and airlines cannot wait to return to normal. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ED BASTIAN, CEO, DELTA AIRLINES: I think we'll be back a lot faster than people think. The last couple days actually were pretty good.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Were they?

BASTIAN: The staffing -- as soon as the Senate deal on Monday got approved, staffing levels almost overnight improved dramatically.

We will be back to normal this weekend. Yesterday, we were over 90 percent on time, system-wide, every flight all day long. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And no concerns about Thanksgiving?

BASTIAN: No concerns.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Okay.

BASTIAN: Thanksgiving's going to be a great holiday period of travel.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MUNTEAN: Cancelations are also way down. 2,900 was the big number we saw on Sunday due in part of these air traffic control, staffing shortages, and some bad weather at major hubs. Now, the cancelations hovering around a thousand nationwide, most of those are the preemptive cancelations. Airlines having to comply with this Trump administration mandate, they're having to cancel flights four days out per that new emergency order. So, even if the Trump administration did away with that tomorrow, these cancelations would stretch into next week. Pamela?

BROWN: All right. Pete Muntean at Reagan National Airport, thanks so much.

And here with us now is Republican Congressman John Rose from Tennessee to talk about this. So, you just heard Kaitlan there at the White House. You heard Pete there talking about the ripple effects still. Even though the government is back open, there's still people who are suffering. There's still people who haven't gotten their SNAP benefits, who are stuck at the airport, who are worried about their health insurance. And I'm wondering what you're hearing from your constituents about what they need the most to recover from the longest shutdown in history.

REP. JOHN ROSE (R-TN): Absolutely. So proud though that we have ended this shutdown and gotten the process underway to get government back open. You know, I think what we learned from this is that we just simply cannot use the American people as leverage in these political fights. What I'm hearing from Tennesseans is, you know, they've seen traffic delayed. They've seen their benefits and their salaries, their pay delayed, food aid for families that is badly needed. And then in my district, farmers who can't get the labor that they need because the Department of Labor workers were furloughed, and so we have crops spoiling in the fields, work that just can't be done.

So, the ripple effects are going to go on for a number of weeks and months, in fact, and perhaps in some cases years.

BROWN: Are you concerned that could backfire on Republicans?

ROSE: Well, no, because I think, you know, we did our homework all the way back on September 19th in the House to keep the government open, not to try to play any tricks, not to try to use the American people as leverage. And so it's just very unfortunate that it took six weeks for Democrats to come to reckon with that, and for what? They got absolutely nothing. BROWN: So, let's talk a little bit more about that because the Democrats say that, you know, they wanted a plan on healthcare because we're seeing now the premiums going up without the extension of the subsidies. And you had Speaker Johnson telling reporters about a potential future vote on those expiring subsidies in the House and what that could look like. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): We are putting together the best ideas that we think can in the quickest fashion bring premiums down. And so we'll be rolling out some of those ideas.

I sent a note to Hakeem Jeffries and I said, look, we would love to do this in a bipartisan fashion, you know? And he and I exchanged text yesterday about that. I mean, we want -- we should do something that is good for all the American people. And if they don't want to use it as a political tool and they actually want to be engaged on that, we're going to, you know, open the doormat for them to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: without those subsidies, the KFF says the average premium payments will more than double. And so I'm wondering, will you support a bill that would extend Obamacare subsidies?

ROSE: Well, you know, we were debating and discussing this, negotiating on this all the way back in September. So, it's unfortunate that we lost six weeks of trying to solve this problem. What's important to remember is that 80 percent of the premium increases have nothing to do with this, and this really only impacts about 7 percent of the population.

So, the premium tax credits that we're talking about, which were implemented as a part of the Affordable Care Act, all the way back in 2014, that cover people up to 400 percent of poverty, they're in permanent law and unaffected by this.

[18:10:11]

And so we're talking about those folks above 400 percent of poverty who were given this special benefit as a part of COVID era subsidies that the Democrats included and set to expire on this December 31st. So, the Democrats set the stage for this.

We also have to remember that the premium tax credits don't go to Americans. They go to billionaire billion dollar insurance companies. And so I think that's why there has to be a discussion about resolving some of the waste, fraud, and abuse that we see in this program. Insurance companies have an incentive to deny claims for the very people that are assisted by this.

BROWN: But what's the solution here? The Urban Institute says that if something isn't done about this, you may not like Obamacare, but if something's not done, millions of Americans will lose their health insurance because they can't afford the premium. So, what is the solution? I mean, will you support that bill that could extend the subsidies? Or what are you going to do? What are Republicans going to do? What's the alternative here?

ROSE: I think we have to be very careful because we don't pull the rug out from under people, but I think we also have to acknowledge and accept the reality that Obamacare, the Affordable Care Act, has not delivered on the promise to lower healthcare cost and lower insurance premiums, but it's had exactly the opposite effect.

So, we've got to provide reforms here that get healthcare in the hands of Americans and aren't just subsidies to billion dollar insurance companies.

BROWN: Right. But the time is of the essence. I mean, do you agree with that? And so what's the bottom line plan? What are Republicans going to do, because constituents in your own district are going to be directly impacted if something isn't done soon?

ROSE: Absolutely. So, I think we have to get back to the negotiating table quickly. We have to try to make up for the last six weeks that we've seen, you know, thrown away by the Schumer shutdown.

BROWN: And, of course, the Democrats argue, well, the Republicans were out and they should have been there negotiating with them, as you well know, everyone has their talking points. But are you willing to, just even in the short-term, extend the subsidies to get that relief while you work out another plan?

ROSE: I think there will be a very rigorous discussion about how we take care of the American people and what the solution should be. But I think we have to start with the understanding that the goal is to get healthcare for Americans, not necessarily health insurance, and certainly not subsidies to health insurance companies who then have an incentive, frankly, to deny the American people of the healthcare that they actually need.

BROWN: And so you agree with what President Trump has floated, giving that money directly to the everyday Americans?

ROSE: I think actually getting resources in the hands of Americans and reforming our healthcare provider system so that it's competitive and so that patients and doctors can make decisions, and that healthcare is available to Americans, that's the end goal.

BROWN: All right. Republican Congressman John Rose from Tennessee, thank you for your time.

ROSE: Thank you.

BROWN: We appreciate it.

Well, a judge today said he will make a decision soon on whether to toss the cases against former FBI Director James Comey and New York Attorney General Letitia James. But did he give any hints as to how he was leaning? CNN's Katelyn Polantz was at the courthouse today and joins us live. Plus, the BBC apologizes to President Trump for how a clip of his speech was edited, but the broadcaster says it will not pay him any damages. The company's explanation ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:15:00]

BROWN: In our Law Justice Lead, fireworks at a Virginia courthouse today. Attorneys for Jim Comey and Letitia James made their cases to disqualify President Trump's handpicked interim U.S. attorney. Comey's lawyer had argued that Lindsey Halligan, you see her right here, who has been called, quote, the indictment signer by the judge, had, quote, no authority to bring the cases. The judge also revealed there were missing notes from Comey's grand jury transcript.

CNN's Katelyn Polantz was in that courtroom. And, Katelyn, we hear there were audible after the judge asked a certain question. What happened?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the tension, the drama. I mean, this was a very lengthy argument with very dense legal issues at play, how long someone like Lindsey Halligan can serve in that position as the top prosecutor without being Senate- confirmed.

But in that moment, I was sitting in the middle of the courtroom, there were some gaps because the judge went there. Her final question to the Justice Department attorney, Henry Whitaker, was, do you believe U.S. v. Trump decided by Judge Cannon in Florida, the classified documents case, was wrongly decided? What she was referring to is Donald Trump winning that case as a defendant, getting it thrown out, because he had argued that the special prosecutor, Jack Smith, didn't have the authority, a very similar thing to what was being argued in this case today.

The Justice Department said, well, it's not controlling here, meaning that's a different case, it's a different district, you should look at the facts here. But the judge is grappling with this idea of when is a prosecutor getting the full authority? And in the case of Halligan, should it be at this point in the president's first term, without anybody Senate-qualified, Senate-confirmed, should it be someone the president elects or at this court should say the court choose who the attorney is that leads that office in the Eastern District of Virginia?

BROWN: And the judge said that she could make a decision by Thanksgiving, right?

POLANTZ: She did. And one of the things that she said there is she has to make a decision by Thanksgiving, but she also was digging into exactly what she was going to need to figure out. At one point, she asked straight up, what do you want me to do here of the defense team for James Comey. They say, we want you to dismiss the case, have it banished forever, have it never come back. But then when she asked that question to Abbe Lowell, this was another moment of levity in the courtroom or drama, I guess. She said, are you asking me to disqualify Lindsey Halligan from the U.S. attorney's office and also block her from doing anything else in this job? Get her away from the job, totally. And Abbe Lowell, the defense attorney for Letitia James said, well, and we're moving to dismiss the case too. And the judge said, oh, yes, I got that.

[18:20:01]

BROWN: I feel like I was in that courtroom.

POLANTZ: Oh, yes.

BROWN: Thanks to your reporting, Katelyn Polantz.

POLANTZ: I appreciate that.

BROWN: We're both legal nerds.

POLANTZ: There's no cameras there, so we got to like --

BROWN: Yes. You have to really, you know, bring it. So you did. Thank you, Katelyn.

Meantime, President Trump says no American leaders will be present when the G20 kicks off next week. And his reason why, some pretty serious allegations against the host nation. CNN's Donie O'Sullivan is investigating the claims, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: In our World Lead, the G20 summit is set to take place in South Africa next week, bringing in leaders from all around the world except from the United States. That's according to President Trump who posted on Truth Social last week, that, quote, no, U.S. Government official will attend and repeated claims that white farmers in South Africa are being killed and having their land taken from them.

CNN's Donie O'Sullivan traveled to South Africa to investigate those claims of white genocide.

[18:25:04]

It is the topic of the next episode of The Whole Story, subtitled this week, Misinfonation, White Genocide.

Donie joins us now. So, Donie, what did you learn?

DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Pam. Well, not to spoil at all, but there is not a white genocide happening in South Africa. But, look, that's what we've been hearing in the U.S. especially over the past few months from the White House and also just from other corners of the sort of MAGAverse. And, of course, there's been a major change in the U.S. refugee policy over the past year to basically limit the refugees coming into the U.S. to just white South Africans next year.

Even within South Africa, this idea of a white genocide is something that most people hadn't heard about. In fact, they heard -- many heard it for the first time when it's been brought up in the White House or even in the Oval Office.

The reality of what's happening in South Africa is there is a major, major crime problem. A lot of people have to live behind gated communities. Private security is a huge industry there. But in terms of, you know, whites being singled out over blacks crime there is affecting everybody.

BROWN: And you also spoke to white Americans who say they fear becoming a minority in the U.S., right?

O'SULLIVAN: Yes. And that's -- I mean, I think that's the real sort of reason why we're hearing so much about this in the United States right now, is that, obviously, there are fears in certain pockets of this country and motivating many political campaigns when it comes to the changing demographics of this country. And, yes, I mean, so what is trying to be presented here in the U.S. of South Africa is to say, look, South Africa is a country where the whites lost control. Apartheid ended 30 years ago, of course, when the minority white population in South Africa ran a brutal system over the black majority. So, this picture is trying to be painted in the U.S. that there's something, you know, very wrong with South Africa and the reason is because of race.

And, yes, we did go to visit one man who was building a whites-only settlement in 2025 in Arkansas. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

O'SULLIVAN: Right now, there's about 40 or so people living here, give or take. But you tell me there's hundreds of people want to move here. Hundreds of people have applied.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. There are quite a few people waiting to be interviewed.

O'SULLIVAN: Are they all racists?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, it depends on what you mean by racist. Are they racist in the sense that they hate other groups of people and want to deprive other groups of people of resources or opportunities? No.

O'SULLIVAN (voice over): People like Eric are afraid that white Americans are being replaced and a projection from the U.S. census has them worried.

I think America is due to become a minority white country for the first time in the 2040s. Are you concerned about that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of course I'm concerned about that. And look what's happened in South Africa, right? (END VIDEO CLIP)

O'SULLIVAN (on camera): And so you see there a lot of the fear that is trying to be built up about South Africa is all based on this idea that white people will somehow lose control in the us.

I will tell you, and folks will see on Sunday night that there are many white people living in South Africa very happy and really sort of view this sort of narrative about their country as sort of very much a fringe thing. And many are bemused, frankly, that it's taken on such legs in the U.S.

BROWN: Well, looking forward to watching that. Donie O'Sullivan, thank you so much. Donie's reporting is the feature story of this week's episode of The Whole Story with Anderson Cooper. Look for that Sunday night at 8:00 Eastern and Pacific on CNN, and then later on the new CNN app.

Turning now to a CNN exclusive, CNN Stefano Pozzebon just spoke with embattled Venezuelan Leader Nicolas Maduro. So, tell us, I want to bring you in. You're one of the few foreign journalists in Venezuela, and at a time when we see this tension building with the United States, with these boat strikes and the building up of exercises from Venezuela. What did Maduro tell you?

STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, Pamela. Well, that was really rare access as I think it's the first time in six years since before the pandemic that Maduro responded to question by a foreign journalist here in Venezuela. It was not planned. We were on the streets trying to speak with Maduro supporters in front of the presidential palace. He suddenly came out. I reached out to him and I asked him if he had a message for President Donald Trump. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POZZEBON: President, are you concerned about the possible aggression?

We're focused on the people, governing with peace with these young people building.

What is your message to the people of the United States, President?

To unite for the peace of the continent, no more endless wars, no more unjust wars, no more Libya, no more Afghanistan.

Do you have a message for President Trump?

[18:30:00]

My message is, yes, peace. Yes, peace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POZZEBON: And, Pamela, I don't -- these type of messages is something that we've heard from Maduro before, especially in his almost daily T.V. appearances in a much more controlled environment here in Caracas. What I think is important to highlight is the context that is a sitting head of state, but also a man who has a $50 million bounty on his head. And the fact that he was able to walk around in the streets of Caracas surrounded by supporters, but, ultimately, just regular people, and the fact that even somebody like me, a reporter for a foreign news network, was able to approach him and ask him those questions, despite, of course, the security apparatus around him perhaps sends up the message that he's not just as worried as somebody in the White House would like him to be.

We've heard four weeks, especially from Washington words that Maduro is cautious, that he's willing to negotiate, that he's fearful for his future. Well, perhaps the fact that there is, of course, a lot of almighty pressure on Maduro coming from the warships outside the coast of Venezuela. But it doesn't look like Maduro is willing to bend to that pressure anytime soon. Pamela?

BROWN: All right. Stefano Pozzebon in Venezuela with that rare access to President Maduro, thank you so much.

Well, brand new CNN reporting reveals that special treatment that Epstein Accomplice Ghislaine Maxwell allegedly is getting behind bars. An attorney who represents multiple Epstein victims will join us live to react, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:35:00]

BROWN: In our Politics Lead, next week, the House will vote to force the Justice Department to release the Epstein files. And Republican sources say, House Republican leaders are bracing for a significant number of Republicans to break from President Trump and back this bipartisan bill. Supporters are pushing for 290 votes, a veto-proof majority.

Meanwhile, Jeffrey Epstein's accomplice, Ghislaine Maxwell, is seemingly not having the worst experience at her white collar prison where she was quietly transferred to in August. Sources tell CNN she is being given privileges not afforded to other inmates, including having a cell all to herself, unlimited toilet paper, special arrangements for guests, able to play with a puppy, all kinds of things.

Let's discuss now with Jennifer Freeman, an attorney representing Epstein's Survivors. Hi, Jennifer. Thank you for coming on.

There has been a lot of Epstein-related news to process since yesterday. How are your clients doing?

JENNIFER FREEMAN, ATTORNEY REPRESENTING EPSTEIN SURVIVORS: Certainly, there's hope here and we are always delighted to see movement. And we're very thrilled that the petition is now ready to go to the floor, but let's also step back a minute because this is all part of it, the largest government and legislative and law enforcement failure in U.S. history. The survivor voices have been ignored for decades and the majority of people who should be implicated in this have been not held to account.

Remember, Maria Farmer, my client, Maria Farmer, in 1996, brought this to the attention of the FBI, reported the crimes of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell to the FBI. And what did the government do? Absolutely nothing. Had the government done their job, over 1,000 victims could have been spared and 30 years of trauma avoided. It's heartbreaking.

BROWN: In the meantime, we see here a picture of Ghislaine Maxwell. Yesterday, there was a lot going on. Before Congresswoman Grijalva was sworn in, Trump and his top officials either called, texted or met with at least two of the three Republican congresswomen who had signed on to this petition, seemingly in this last ditch effort to try and get them to remove their names. None of them did. Why do you think the administration tried this?

FREEMAN: I think this is all part of the government failure to do their job, to really help survivors, listen to survivors and look for the truth. We are very hopeful that the lawmakers will do the right thing. They will seriously consider the Epstein File Transparency Act, vote in favor of it, and finally release the files. It is just enough, it needs to be done.

BROWN: What is your reaction to this reporting that Ghislaine Maxwell is not only in a nicer prison now but she's getting these privileges not given to other inmates?

FREEMAN: That is deeply disturbing to survivors. They just -- they see this over and over again, that there's preferential treatment to, whether it's to Maxwell, and certainly it was for Epstein and all the others, those that are implicated in these crimes that have not been held to account. This is part and parcel of that. The files need to be released. Truth -- and, remember, this is about more than just the files. It's about truth. It's about the survivor voices, it's about accountability and it's also about restoring -- just restoring faith in the U.S. justice system.

BROWN: Is there anything that can be done on the legal front to prevent Ghislaine Maxwell from receiving this kind of treatment at this jail that has been reported? I mean, is there anything you can do as a lawyer?

FREEMAN: I do not believe so. I am not aware of some action we can take. This is up to the Bureau of Prisons. And, ultimately, it's going to be up to the president as to how he handles this. And we are very hopeful that Ghislaine Maxwell will serve out her term in prison as is appropriate.

BROWN: Jennifer Freeman, thank you for your time.

FREEMAN: Good to be with you.

BROWN: Tonight, the BBC is officially apologizing to President Trump for how it edited one of his speeches, but the company says it will not pay him any compensation. Why? Their explanation up next.

[18:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: In our World Lead, the BBC has apologized to President Donald Trump over a documentary that Trump's lawyers describe as false and defamatory.

CNN's Max Foster has the latest on the fallout that has plunged the BBC into a crisis. Max?

MAX FOSTER, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Pam, the BBC has spent several days considering this and they've ended up sending a letter from the BBC lawyers to Trump's lawyers and a personal letter from the BBC chairman to Trump himself. And they do appear to have satisfied at least one of his demands, which was a personal apology over an edit in a documentary, which the BBC accepts was a mistake.

Now, Trump also asked for a full and fair retraction of that documentary. And on that, the BBC says they will not rebroadcast the show. Will that be enough of a retraction for Donald Trump? We will wait to hear from him.

Trump's third demand for appropriate compensation is less clear here, only the BBC saying that they strongly disagree there is a basis for a defamation claim. That suggests they are ready to go to court if President Trump takes them to court.

[18:45:00]

He has threatened legal action if his claims aren't satisfied.

That being said, they may have offered some sort of other settlement that we don't know about away from court. They're under huge pressure from politicians not to do that because the BBC is a publicly funded organization, and that money will inevitably come from taxpayers.

So, there's a lot of pressure for the BBC not to send Donald Trump money over this. If Donald Trump accepts this, reach out from the BBC, it will potentially end a very painful period in the BBC's modern history. If he doesn't accept it, it could end up in court, even if he isn't likely to win the case. And the story will rumble on and on and on. Put even more pressure on the BBC -- Pam.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: All right. Max Foster, thank you so much.

And turning to our politics lead now. As some progressive House Democrats call for a senate minority leader, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer to step aside over that deal to end the shutdown, former House speaker and influential Democrat Nancy Pelosi still has his back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Do you still support Senator Schumer in his role as minority leader? REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): Yes, I do. Who I don't support is president

of the United States, is the worst president for children that America has ever had.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And while Democrats continue to point fingers at each other, one battleground Democrat, Congresswoman Susie Lee from Nevada is begging her colleagues to end the blame game, saying yesterday during a closed door meeting, quote, stop pissing on each other and start pissing on Republicans. Direct quote.

We're back with the panel.

All right. So I --

MO ELLEITHEE, FORMER DNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: All right.

BROWN: There you go. She didn't mince words there.

I want to take a listen to what Senator Murphy said on Fox News about all of this. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLP)

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): This is the fourth major moment this year where a handful of Democrats have crossed over and voted with Donald Trump. That means we need more effective leadership. That also means that the caucus has to decide for itself that we're not going to continue to break apart like this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Senator Murphy, of course, is a Democrat. You have the midterms a year from now. How is this infighting helping Democrats, Mo?

ELLEITHEE: It's not I'm fully on team Susie Lee there. Right? Like you don't have to agree with what happened with the shutdown fight, but it happened. And now what do you do? You pivot and you move forward. And now, we've got an opportunity. Democrats have an opportunity to take the fight to Republicans on the issue. This whole shutdown was all about, health care costs.

Rather than sit here and yelling at each other and pointing fingers and playing the blame game, they ought to pivot and be blaming Republicans or putting pressure on Republicans to do the right thing when it comes to the Obamacare subsidies.

MIKE DUBKE, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: I mean, it's communications 101. They could have won. Look, I think they lost the after this shutdown went on for longer than five days. They lost their message arc with the -- with the subsidies. And it went on far too long. But they're doubling down on their failure with all of this infighting. BROWN: But what about now? I mean, you have the infighting, but you

also have pressure on Republicans, as Mo said, to come up with something when it comes to health care, because the reality is that these premiums are going to go up a lot for Americans who are saying, I can't afford this.

So, whether or not you like Obamacare, that's the reality. And I just had a Republican on from Tennessee and pressed him on this. And Republicans have yet to lay out a plan.

DUBKE: I think -- well, first of all, it shows that Obamacare is broken. The fact that we have to have subsidies for a program that's supposed to fund itself is ridiculous on its -- on its face. But I think what most Republicans recognize is if we're going to have this, these subsidies, we need to fix some of the other systematic problems within it. And that's where they're going to push, push back and say, we need to have these, you know, reform X, Y, and Z in addition to the subsidies and not just continue a program for the next two, three, four years.

ELLEITHEE: When people's insurance premiums double in the coming weeks and months, they're not going to be sitting there and thinking to themselves, well, this is a failure of the system. They're going to say, this is a failure of Republicans who didn't fund this program. That's the political reality. And why you do see some Republicans starting to break ranks a little bit, saying, we guys, we have to deal with this. I hope more of them do.

But this is -- this is the space that Democrats ought to be leaning into right now. Right? Politically, that's the messaging. They ought to be leaning into.

BROWN: And as you look into the midterms, and I want to let you talk, there's also, you know, the price of what's happening right now. And President Trump, for his part, saying, look, everything is fine. Everything is going down. When the reality for day-to-day Americans, for many Americans isn't that, they're not experienced that, they're not feeling that. Are you concerned that that could backfire?

DUBKE: We're absolutely concerned about that. Because the economy is not about the facts and figures that come out of the Bureau of Labor Statistics. It's about perception. How do people feel?

This is exactly what Joe Biden and Kamala Harris did not understand in the last election that really led to a great extent of Donald Trump winning in 2024.

[18:50:06]

And we can't, as a party, make the same mistake. So, this has got to be about opportunity. This has got to be about, you know, the president explaining how the tariffs are really benefiting the American people. Maybe we can lower tax rates for the lower income brackets because of the amount of money the government is taking in on tariffs.

There's a lot of things that we can be doing as Republicans that we're not.

BROWN: What do you think, Mo?

ELLEITHEE: A 50-year mortgage ain't one of them, right? As he -- as he tossed out the other day.

I don't think he gets how this is impacting people in their daily lives. I really don't. The same day he's out there saying, we're going to change mortgages to 50 years instead of 30 years, which would double, right? Your interest payments over the life --

DUBKE: Of the life --

ELLEITHEE: Over the life of the loan, right?

DUBKE: He's creating a short term --

ELLEITHEE: At the same time -- at the same time, the very same day, he proposes that, he's giving a Fox News host a tour, showing off all the gold in the Oval Office. Right? Like that is the kind of split screen that just tells the American people he's not getting me right now. And that is a problem for this president who a good part of his success over the past decade has been people believing he gets me better than the other guy does. Right now, it sure doesn't sound like it.

BROWN: But do you actually think that will change anything for his base? I mean, they are so loyal.

DUBKE: They are loyal. But I do think at the end of the day, especially the midterms, which we're talking about, what we just saw in, the past Tuesday's election in blue states, granted. But Donald Trump wasn't on the ballot, and we didn't see the Republicans that turned out in 2024 turn out in 2025. I do have a big concern that the Republican Party hasn't solved that issue of not having Donald Trump on the ballot.

So, his voters may not be affected, but the other independent and other Republican voters will be.

ELLEITHEE: His voters are loyal to him.

DUBKE: Right.

ELLEITHEE: Not to -- not to average congressional Republican -- congressional candidate --

DUBKE: And they may not show up.

ELLEITHEE: -- that's on the ballot next year when Donald Trump is not.

DUBKE: Exactly right.

BROWN: You're concerned about.

DUBKE: That's my concern. I don't know why you're concerned about it.

ELLEITHEE: I'm giddy about it. I'm thrilled.

DUBKE: Yeah, exactly.

BROWN: What about how the administration has dealt with the Epstein files? I mean, you have a Republican congresswoman going to the White House yesterday to have a meeting in the Situation Room. And our reporting is that, you know, part of this was a pressure campaign for her not to sign on to the petition. I mean --

DUBKE: I think part of this is they recognize that this story is going to continue and continue and continue now. And so, they were trying to get Boebert off that petition. So, I totally understand why they tried to do it.

But this is this goes back as, again, we started with communications 101. They should have faced this up a lot sooner. But they need to -- they just need to continue now and keep pressing through. And --

BROWN: All right. We'll see -- we'll see what happens. A lot of what ifs. Thank you both. Appreciate it.

So many of you had questions about this week's FDA announcement on hormone therapy for menopause. CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta is going to answer some of those, up next.

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[18:57:42]

BROWN: In our health lead, CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta has returned to answer your questions about hormone replacement therapy, medication and menopause.

Sanjay, Mavis from Macon, Georgia, wants to know how long should a person be on hormones?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Pamela. I think this was one of the most common questions that we got. How long should a woman be on hormones?

Look, there is no absolute answer to this. There's no magic number. People are used to thinking about medications as being lifelong medications. That's really not the case typically, with hormone therapy.

Average number of years that a woman stays on hormone therapy is around five years. That's according to the Mayo Clinic. Usually starting within the first ten years of menopause, and then around age 60 or so, making sure that the benefits continue to outweigh the risks.

You want to start it again within that early period, within the first ten years of menopause, and then reevaluate. I mean, there's all sorts of things bone density, cardiovascular risk, breast cancer risk, things like that that you want to continuously be reevaluating. But around five years on average. But for some women it can be a lot longer.

BROWN: Michelle from Clifton, Virginia, asks, I am a 42-year-old woman. When should I start to explore HRT? Are there any tests, blood or otherwise, that can determine if HRT is needed?

GUPTA: So, this is really interesting. First all, I think there's going to be a lot more conversations and a lot more questions like this with the black box warning going away on hormone therapy. Perimenopause, menopause, blood tests. This is what Michelle sort of asking about.

There is no single blood test to determine whether someone's in menopause or perimenopause. And keep in mind, if you check a hormone level throughout the day, those hormone levels fluctuate. So you're only getting a static picture in time, as opposed to getting a sort of more global perspective on what's happening with the woman.

Menopause is more strictly defined as having gone without a period for 12 months, 12 months in a row, and the average age is around 51 years old in the United States for menopause. So, keeping that all in mind, those conversations should happen earlier than that. And if you're going to start hormone therapy, starting it within the first ten years of the onset of menopause seems to have the greatest benefit around age 60, having conversations with your doctor to make sure that the benefits continue to outweigh the risks.

A lot of times, again, people are used to thinking about these medications as lifelong medications, not necessarily the case with hormone therapy. That's all based on a conversation between the woman and her doctor -- Pamela.

BROWN: All right. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you so much.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now.