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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump Orders Investigation Into Ties Between Top Dems & Epstein; Source: Trump Told He Got Bad Advice On Handling Epstein Scandal; Rep. Yassamin Ansari, (D-AZ), Is Interviewed About Trump Orders To Investigate Dems & Epstein; Ukraine Attacks Key Russian Oil Hub As Deadly Strikes Pound Kyiv; Trump: Costs Are "Tumbling Down" & "Affordability Is A Lie"; FAA Eases Shutdown-Related Flight Restrictions. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired November 14, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: All right, thanks to my panel. Really appreciate you guys. Thanks to all of you at home for watching as well. Don't forget, you can now stream The Arena live or catch up whenever you want. We're in the CNN app on Demand.

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Pamela Brown is standing by for "The Lead." Hi, Pam. PAMELA BROWN, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Hey, thanks, Kasie.

Have a great weekend. We'll see you back in "The Arena" next week.

HUNT: You too. Have a great weekend. BROWN: Thanks.

[17:00:39]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: President Trump just ordered a new Epstein investigation. The Lead starts right now.

A top prosecutor just put in charge of the Jeffrey Epstein case, now investigating his ties to key Democrats. Plus, prison employees now fired after a whistleblower revealed Ghislaine Maxwell's cushy conditions behind bars. Was the world not supposed to know? And the president's brand new message on the cost of living why he calls one part of the affordability argument a lie.

Welcome to The Lead. I'm Pamela Brown in for Jake Tapper. And we start with our law and justice lead, new details in this ongoing Epstein files saga. Today President Trump wants Attorney General Pam Bondi to investigate Jeffrey Epstein's ties to many high profile figures just two days after the House Oversight Committee released e-mails from Epstein's estate that mentions Trump multiple times.

Now Trump continues to deny any wrongdoing. But this morning on Truth Social he wrote, quote, "Now that the Democrats are using the Epstein hoax involving Democrats, not Republicans to try and deflect from their disastrous shutdown, I will be asking AG Pam Bondi and the Department of Justice together with our great patriots at the FBI to investigate Jeffrey Epstein's involvement and relationship with Bill Clinton, Larry Summers, Reid Hoffman, JPMorgan Chase and many other people and institutions."

And then just hours later, Bondi confirmed she would launch the investigation on Trump's orders, assigning Jay Clayton, the top prosecutor in New York's Southern District to lead it. Again, the vast amount of documents we've seen from the House Oversight Committee were obtained from the Epstein estate. We have yet to see the entirety of what the Justice Department may have on the Epstein case.

And as you mull over that post from Trump, consider that a source tells CNN that in recent days Trump was directly told by at least one of his allies on Capitol Hill that he was getting bad advice on this approach to the Epstein situation by continuing to delay and downplay it. The source says this ally told Trump that his staff allowing bad press on the issue has opened him up to unnecessary criticism. A senior White House official told CNN, quote, "These people have no idea what advice the president is getting."

So let's bring in CNN's MJ Lee and Evan Perez.

Evan, we covered DOJ together.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

BROWN: Can we just talk about how significant this is that the president puts out this post calling for this investigation on mainly Democrats, and then the AG responds hours later and says, I'm on it, and assigns someone.

PEREZ: Right. And what she does is she screenshots the message and then endorses it, seemingly, and then says that she is assigning Jay Clayton, the U.S. attorney in the Southern District of New York, to do this investigation. A couple things are significant. Obviously, the president is asking for investigations of Democrats. And so the question that will now be in the hands of Jay Clayton is whether he's limiting the this new review, this new investigation to just Democrats, or is he going to look at the whole universe of allegations and possibilities here.

And what don't they already have? We know, as you pointed out, that the Democrats have been getting these new documents from the Epstein estate. And it appears, according to the deputy attorney general from his own Twitter activity in the last couple of days, that they don't seem to have had these documents themselves, that these were documents that were not part of the criminal investigations of Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. Now, that's not -- that's not strange or unusual because the documents that would have been in their -- in their hands would have been relevant to those cases. So it appears what's about to happen is that Jay Clayton and this new investigation is going to have to get the entire universe of documents that's out there, including from the Epstein estate.

I should note that the attorney -- deputy attorney general essentially accused the estate of hiding documents -- BROWN: Yes.

PEREZ: -- from law enforcement, which the estate pushed back on. They said they didn't hide anything. They were just responding to whatever documents was requested from them.

A couple of things that I think we should keep in mind. Because there's a new investigation, this means that it's most likely the Justice Department is not going to be turning over anything to the House, no matter what happens with this discharge petition. So it doesn't really matter what vote happens in the next few weeks in Congress because as you and I, you know, know from covering the Justice Department many years, they don't turn over documents when there's an ongoing criminal investigation.

[17:05:22]

BROWN: I think that's a really important point.

PEREZ: Right.

BROWN: And you know, you mentioned -- you mentioned Todd Blanche. He had gotten some criticism for that interview that he had with Ghislaine Maxwell. And you're actually learning more, MJ Lee, about Ghislaine Maxwell and some of the treatment she's been getting.

MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And this piece of news is actually coming from one of her lawyers, Leah Saffian, and she said in a statement that a number of the employees that actually work at the Bryan, Texas Minimum Security Prison Camp, this is where Maxwell currently is, have been terminated from their jobs. Let me just read a part of her statement. She said, "They have been terminated for improper unauthorized access to the e-mail system used by the Federal Bureau of Prisons to allow inmates to communicate with the outside world." The important context here is that you'll recall earlier this week, Congressman Jamie Raskin, who is the top Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee, he unveiled some information that he said he got from a whistleblower that included some of the alleged special privilege -- privileges that she has gotten while inside prison.

But the other thing that was really key was that according to this whistleblower, Maxwell is currently in prison working on a commutation application. And one of the things that the whistleblower said was that the prison's warden has actually been helping her with the application, printing things, copying things, sending e-mails. And one exchange between Maxwell and her lawyer was something that was actually released as a part of this information dump. And Saffian is basically alleging, well, this is a violation of attorney client privilege. Now, how the House Judiciary Democrats are pushing back on this is they're basically saying this is not actually true because any time that an inmate logs into that e-mail system that you use at a federal prison, they acknowledge they have to basically check a box on a disclaimer that says, we know that our e-mails are going to be monitored. This is what a spokesperson for the committee said. They said, "None of the documents shared with the committee from the Federal Bureau of Prisons TRULINCS system was subject to the attorney client privilege." Now, to be clear, we do not know the identity of the whistleblower. This is not something that Raskin unveiled in any way. He didn't suggest that it was even an employee at the prison.

So I think we should just be clear about what we don't know. And we did reach out to the BOP, the Bryan camp and DOJ for comments. PEREZ: One quick thing I think we should note that if they're firing

someone who is a whistleblower, that also raises new problems, right, because it's illegal for you to fire someone who has claimed whistleblower status, has been given whistleblower status. Certainly Congress is very mindful of that. So that's something that we will probably have to keep an eye on --

BROWN: Yes. Good point.

PEREZ: -- if it creates new problems.

BROWN: For sure. All right, Evan Perez, MJ Lee, thank you both. Appreciate it.

Let's discuss with former Trump attorney Bill Brennan and former federal prosecutor Alyse Adamson.

Bill, let's start with you. So I had mentioned earlier in the show, the source is telling CNN that a Capitol Hill ally directly told Trump he was getting bad advice on the handling of the Epstein files story. Do you agree with that?

BILL BRENNAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I do. I don't know exactly what type of advice the president is getting or from whom he is getting it. But if that advice is to persist in this, you know, failure to endorse release, if I was advising on this issue, and I am not, I would say I'd be all in for release. It seems to me that whatever is in the Epstein file, so to speak, it is what it is. If there's a there there, it's there.

And if there's a not a there there, it's not there. And it's to have this thing just linger like this seems counterproductive to the president's overall agenda.

BROWN: But now, you know, as Evan Perez just noted, Donald Trump called for this investigation by DOJ. Pam Bondi said, we're on it. She's assigned a prosecutor to it. And as you well know, Alyse, when that happens, DOJ doesn't typically release information in an ongoing investigation. So how do you see that part playing out?

ALYSE ADAMSON, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Yes, that's right, Pam. I mean, all of this is unprecedented. For a sitting president to direct the scope of a criminal investigation up until this administration was unheard of. And, you know, as it was already noted, the individuals, the scope of this investigation seems to just be a few Democrats. And the whole Epstein saga has always been about a lack of accountability and transparency. [17:10:00]

And now we're seeing more of the same. Because as was also noted, now that there's an ongoing criminal investigation, it's going to be very easy for DOJ to say no if the House ultimately votes for the release of the Epstein files and say we can't per our policy, there's now an ongoing criminal investigation. So there's none of that transparency. And then because this criminal investigation seems to be scoped to just these Democrats, there's still a lack of accountability because there's probably other individuals who should be investigated and at least by what we know now from the reporting, probably won't if this investigation remains so narrowly tailored.

BROWN: Bill, as I noted --

BRENNAN: You know, Pam --

BROWN: Go ahead. BRENNAN: -- this seems to always lie in the president's lap and I

don't know that's the right lap for it to lie in. Epstein made the sweetheart deal of all time, years before the president was the president, first time or this time. So he's been wheeling and dealing with governments, with the DOJ and government agencies throughout many administrations.

The other tacit assumption that people seem to lay thick on when talking about the president not releasing, and I don't know that it's his authority or decision, is that there must be some implicating material against the president there and nothing has come out to support that. There could be very good reasons for redacting or limiting the release, such as protect the victim's names and identity, grand jury secrecy, but those issues are fairly easily resolved. They may take some time, but we've been at this a long time. I would, if I was making the call on how to advise the president, I would say tell whoever has the authority to make a decision here, get the files redacted, make sure no grand jury secrecy rules are violated and get it all out there, dump it, just, you know, throw it out there and let's see what happens. Because I think this connection that people try to make saying that the president won't release them so the president must have culpability is nonsense.

BROWN: But could the president not direct his DOJ to release everything? I mean, he just directed Pam Bondi today to investigate these Democrats in this case. The president can -- couldn't he say, listen, put all the -- put all the case files out there.

BRENNAN: He -- the president is basically is the executive branch of the government, so the president can do basically whatever he wants. But historically in this country, when presidents have tried to order attorneys general or other high ranking DOJ officials to do something and I haven't seen them order anything yet, I've seen them suggest something in an e-mail.

BROWN: Well --

BRENNAN: But historically in this country, we've seen people quit. You have the Elliot Richardson --

BROWN: Hold on Bill. Bill, Bill, I just, sorry, I don't mean to interrupt, but he -- today he posted telling Pam Bondi to investigate several high profile Democrats. And then hours later she said I'm on it. That happened today.

BRENNAN: And he has the right to make those suggestions or directives. And Attorney General Bondi can determine whether or not she wants to run with it. That ultimately is her decision. But if you look back not more than 40 years ago, it's not that long ago in the history of our country, we've had attorneys general quit and special prosecutors quit when ordered to do something. So sometimes ordering from the executive to the DOJ head backfires.

And I don't know that in this case the president will get what he asked her to done.

BROWN: Well, she's already assigned a prosecutor for Pam Bondi. So we'll see how it plays out. But Alyse, I want to get your response on that.

BRENNAN: Yes. See how it plays out.

ADAMSON: Yes, I think my response is that just flies in the face of recent history. I would -- again, I would agree with everything Bill said up until this administration, but what we have seen continuously is the president making requests of the attorney general and the attorney general granting those requests. I think it's more likely, rather than the attorney general resigning, if she receives a request from the president, that there will be other prosecutors who ultimately resign if they disagree with the directive of the president. And that is the pattern we've been seeing since President Trump took office. We've seen it in the Southern District of New York.

We've seen it recently in the Eastern District of Virginia when prosecutors are uncomfortable with these directives from the White House, they either resign or they get fired. I would call it more, Pam, of a pressure campaign of anything else. And I -- that is what I have been seeing. I don't think it is realistic to think that if the president requests a certain action for the Department of Justice that they will not comply. And this is why I argue we need an independent Department of Justice, one that follows the facts and the evidence and not really the political whims of anybody, even the sitting president.

[17:15:13]

And that is the way that the Department of Justice has historically operated, and that is the way that it should return.

BROWN: All right. Alyse Adamson, Bill Brennan, thank you both. Appreciate it.

BRENNAN: Thank you. Bye-bye.

BROWN: As the House Oversight Committee also digs into the Epstein scandal, I'll ask a Democrat on that committee what they make of the president order this new investigation. Plus, with the government reopening, should you still be worried about possible flight delays and cancellations spilling into Thanksgiving holiday travel? We're going to ask the points guy ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Back with more in our law and justice lead. As President Trump is asking the Justice Department to investigate Jeffrey Epstein's ties to former President Bill Clinton, former Clinton Treasury Secretary Larry Summers, entrepreneur Reid Hoffman and banking institution JPMorgan Chase. JPMorgan Chase just giving me the statement tonight saying, quote, "The government had damning information about his crimes and failed to share it with us or other banks. We regret any association we had with this man but did not help him commit his heinous acts. We ended our relationship with him years before his arrest on sex trafficking charges."

[17:20:14]

So let's discuss all of this with the youngest member of Congress, Democratic Congresswoman Yasmine Ansari of Arizona. She is on the House Oversight Committee.

So thank you for coming on. As we had been discussing in the last segment, President Trump is calling on the attorney general to launch this investigation into those high profile Democrats. And the AG said she's on it. Would you support the attorney general investigating the people and institutions the president named, even if it doesn't include Trump and others?

REP. YASSAMIN ANSARI (D-AZ): Donald Trump has been as desperate and panicked as ever ever since the 23,000 pages that were released to the Oversight Committee from the Epstein estate. My question to the president is, if he has nothing to hide, and if the Department of Justice has nothing to hide, why are they not releasing the Epstein files today. There is a subpoena that the Oversight Committee has issued against the Department of Justice and they have refused to release documents to the committee. And at this point, they are breaking the law by not doing so. I want to say very clearly we have been abundantly clear about the fact that we don't care what party somebody is from.

We don't care how powerful you are. If you were responsible for abusing or raping children or young women, then you will face justice. But what Donald Trump has been doing is covering up this entire thing by threatening members of Congress to not sign the discharge petition, by refusing to comply with a subpoena. That is there right now that they have refused to do so. And by not answering simple questions like why is Ghislaine Maxwell getting special treatment inside a low security prison at this moment? BROWN: And DOJ has turned over some documents, right, just not all the

files relevant --

ANSARI: They submitted --

BROWN: -- to the subpoenas. ANSARI: Yes. Very little documentation. Largely the documents that they have submitted, about 97 percent, were documents that were already available --

BROWN: Right.

ANSARI: -- in the public domain.

BROWN: So are you concerned you won't see those documents, because now, given the fact that there is an ongoing investigation, as was announced today, DOJ can say, well, we have an investigation going, we can't release these documents?

ANSARI: Exactly. I think that this is all part of the Trump White House's cover up of a massive and unprecedented child sex trafficking operation and another crime underway right now which is the cover-up. Look at what Mike Johnson, the speaker of the House, has been doing for months now. He's done everything in his power to postpone discussion of the Epstein files. Allegedly, next week we have a vote. I think he's going to lose complete control of his caucus.

And I want to also point out something that I find very astounding and very alarming, which is that Vice President J.D. Vance and Secretary of State Marco Rubio have also said absolutely nothing about this. Since these 23,000 pages were released two days ago, they have been silent. They have not said one word. These are two top presidential contenders for the Republican Party for 2028. And I would give one piece of advice to them is that if you don't come out and call concern about the fact that Donald Trump is mentioned over a thousand times in these documents and they haven't called for the release of these files, then that is going to be something that follows them in their careers.

BROWN: I want to ask you about these Epstein estate documents. We saw some of them earlier this week. There were a few e-mails that mentioned Trump, oversight documents released the first couple. And then the White House say -- and then the full batch, the 20,000 was released. The White House says that Democrats like yourself wanted to make the Trump looked bad out of context, given that there were thousands of other documents that were then later released. What is your response to that?

ANSARI: I don't think anybody's trying to make Trump look any sort of way. Trump is looking, how he's looking based on his name being mentioned over a thousand times in these documents. And it's -- there's nothing good that's said about Donald Trump in these documents. And the person making the statements is one of the worst people to have ever walked in planet earth.

BROWN: Is there showing criminal wrongdoing either in these documents you would --

ANSARI: There's no -- I mean, the fact that there's talk of him spending hours on end with a victim of Jeffrey Epstein, the fact that it's very clear that they were very close.

BROWN: Republicans (inaudible) Virginia Giuffre.

ANSARI: It doesn't matter who it is.

BROWN: He's never accused.

ANSARI: It doesn't matter who it is. This was a victim who was trafficked and abused and raped by rich and powerful men for years on end. And Donald Trump spent hours with her. He knew --

BROWN: According to the e-mail.

ANSARI: -- what -- yes, according to the e-mails. And again, if Donald Trump is innocent, release the files, show the American public that he's innocent or that other people who are allies of the administration, who have posts within this administration, if they are innocent, they should release the files today. The most important thing is justice and accountability for the victims.

I mean, I listened to the family members of Virginia doing an interview this last week. And they are heartbroken and devastated at the fact of how her memory, how she's being talked about, the fact that the president has never acknowledged her or her suffering or what she's gone through. The victims have been begging and pleading and showing unbelievable bravery by coming outside of the Capitol steps, by telling their stories, by talking about the horrific crimes that were committed.

[17:25:25]

And meanwhile, what is happening with the Trump administration? They're giving Ghislaine Maxwell special treatment directly after she was spoken to by Donald Trump's former defense attorney, his personal defense attorney, Todd Blanche, went to her and then she was immediately transferred to this low security prison. And of course, a whistleblower came forward to the House Judiciary Committee and made that known.

So again, to me and to the Oversight Committee Democrats, this is very clearly a cover up. And if the White House wants to prove that it's not so, they should release the files today.

BROWN: All right. Congresswoman Yassamin Ansari, thank you very much for your time.

ANSARI: Thank you.

BROWN: We appreciate it.

Up next, renewed attention on Russia's war with Ukraine. Video shows Ukraine hitting a Russian oil hub after deadly Russian strikes in key the last 24 hours in this brutal conflict up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:30:25] BROWN: Our World Lead takes us to Ukraine's capital, where overnight deadly Russian strikes hit apartment buildings and ignited fires. At least six people were killed, including a married couple, ages 71 and 73, according to Kyiv police.

One rescue worker in Kyiv returned to his apartment to find his eight- month-old daughter's room destroyed, as you see. However, she was with his family, which had taken shelter, and they had all survived, fortunately. Meanwhile, Ukraine says it struck a key Russian oil depot right near the Black Sea, damaging major infrastructure.

Joining us now from Kyiv is Aidan Stretch. He's a writer for the Free Press. Aidan, what is -- what is it like right now in Kyiv? What's going on?

AIDAN STRETCH, WRITER, FREE PRESS: It's great to be with you here, Pam. First of all, I hope you can -- you can hear and -- and see me OK.

BROWN: Yes. We can.

STRETCH: We're still without electricity here in Kyiv, as we have been for -- for most of the week and -- and most of the day today after -- after the strikes last night. I'm very lucky. I live here in the city center. I'm able to go to an appliance store, get a battery, a light, which I'm using to speak to you now. That's not the case in most of -- of the city, much less the country.

I have a colleague, a Ukrainian journalist who I work closely with, who woke up last night to the sound of a -- of a Shaheed drone striking the apartment next door to her. She called the fire department. The authorities came, got the wounded to a hospital.

But this is something that Ukrainians are dealing with on a weekly basis and oftentimes more frequently than that.

BROWN: Exactly, right.

STRETCH: And as you might be able to see, the -- the power just went on. And so hopefully you can still see me OK.

BROWN: Yes, we see -- we see you now. See you better. So I want to talk about oil because it's been this key source of war revenue for Russia, as we know. How significant was that Ukrainian strike on the Russian oil depot?

STRETCH: Yes. So I -- I got off the phone with a official in Ukraine's Ministry of Defense actually just before hopping on with you, where we spoke briefly about this oil depot, which is located in Novorossiysk, which is one of Russia's deep sea water ports along the Black Sea. And he said there's really two reasons why it's significant.

One is, is the location. It is perhaps, aside from Moscow, in terms of Russian air defenses, the most protected location in all of Russia. So it definitely demonstrates a breakthrough in Russia's long -- in Ukraine's long range strike capabilities in Russia. And the second reason is that it is a commercial seaport and Ukraine has struck oil and -- and gas infrastructure across Russia. But this is really an example where they are striking its ability to export that oil to -- to other countries. This is something, of course, that Russia has done repeatedly over the last three and a half years to Ukraine that is striking Ukraine's port infrastructure. And so this is really Ukraine starting to respond in kind.

BROWN: All right. Aiden Stretch in Ukraine, thank you so much.

[17:33:22]

Breaking news in the Money Lead, the President's reversal, lowering a number of key tariffs. What the changes could mean for your next trip to the grocery store, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Breaking news in the Money Lead, the Trump administration just announced it is lowering tariffs on beef, tomatoes, coffee, and bananas. A move that appears to be aimed at addressing concerns about the administration's approach to affordability and the rising costs of groceries and other goods for Americans.

So let's bring in former Trump economic advisor Stephen Moore to talk a little bit more about this. Hi, Stephen. So all of those food categories have seen some pretty sharp price increases over the last 12 months or so. But economists often say it's hard to bring down the price of groceries. I remember that was a big talking point during the campaign. So how much could cutting the tariffs really impact prices here?

STEPHEN MOORE, CO-FOUNDER, UNLEASH PROSPERITY: Hi, Pam. Well, it depends on what -- what commodities you're talking about. So let me give you an example of where I think tariffs have raised prices. It's the classic example of that Starbucks coffee people drink in the morning.

And we're seeing -- we're seeing a big increase in the price of coffee. And now, why is that? Because we put high tariffs on coffee beans that come in from Brazil and come in from Colombia. So there -- in my opinion, there has been some increase in grocery prices as a result of -- of the Trump tariffs.

But to be fair, we also have seen reductions in, for example, the gas price because we've dramatically increased the production of oil and gas. So some things have gone up in price. Some things have gone down in price. And it's the old law of supply and demand.

BROWN: Right. But when you look at and you talk to the everyday American, you know, they talk about --

MOORE: Yes.

BROWN: -- how it's -- it's tough, right? I mean, one in four households are living paycheck to paycheck. And that is their lived experience, right? I mean, earlier today, they had President Trump saying the costs and inflation were higher under Biden. He wrote on True Social, "costs under the Trump administration are tumbling down, helped greatly by gasoline and energy. Affordability is a lie when used by the Dems."

When do you think the President and the administration will stop pointing the finger at Biden and Democrats for the economic pains that Americans are feeling?

MOORE: Well, a couple of things. I mean, first of all, we should remember, and I just looked up these -- these numbers last night, that about 92 percent of the increase in food prices that people are angry about, and you can put me on that list, 92 percent of that happened under Biden, not Trump. And so this is sort of the hangover effect of -- of the big, and -- and remember, it went up to 9 percent at one point in inflation under Biden.

[17:40:13]

So it is coming down. We now have a 2.8 percent inflation rate. That's still too high. Pam, we want it down to 2 percent, but I do think that we're making progress. And one thing that Trump should be saying is that the big, beautiful tax bill we passed, most middle-income people are going to start to see the tax breaks next year in 2026.

They're going to see less money withheld from their paycheck, and that will help pay the groceries and pay for airfares and pay for gas bills.

BROWN: But -- but as you know, Stephen, President Trump said he would lower those prices day one. It was -- it was such a big issue on the campaign, and some of those groceries have gone up as a direct result of some of those tariff policies --

MOORE: Yes, yes.

BROWN: -- that we were -- that we were talking about. I mean, do -- do you think the President needs to acknowledge that reality that people are experiencing, like you say, even -- even yourself? I mean, he's, you know, how many, 10 months in to his administration now.

Well, I've never been a big fan of tariffs, but I will say this, that I think a lot of Americans are pretty happy with the fact that Trump is getting pretty good trade deals. He went over to Asia and got some trade deals, got hundreds of billions of dollars of commitments to be invested here. I'm pretty bullish on the U.S. economy right now.

I think you're going to see a lot of growth in the economy in -- in 2026, and I think people will be happy. Look, I mean, we've got a record-high stock market, so people's wealth has gone up. We're seeing, as I said, gas prices. I was just in Nebraska last week, $2.59 a gallon then. I mean, when's the last time we saw gas prices that low? So it kind of depends on what you're buying.

BROWN: And there's no question gas prices, you know, are lower, and that should be acknowledged for sure. But are you concerned about the disconnect between Wall Street, because the stock market's doing well, like you said, you know, wealth, those who have stock, they're doing great, but that disconnect between Wall Street and Main Street?

MOORE: Well, I heard -- I've heard that argument for 40 years, and, you know, I would say this, that one of the innovations that's happened over the last 25 years is 401(k) plans, stock ownership plans that businesses have that has increased the -- the ownership of American companies.

And we have, right now, Pam, about 160 million Americans have 401(k) plans or other stock ownership, so their wealth goes up, just like when the -- when the value of your home goes up. You know, if you own a home, as I do, you know, your wealth goes up. So the wealth of Americans has gone up.

It's not just the top 20 percent. It's most Americans. The big thing we have to do is, in my opinion, is not redistribute the wealth, but share the wealth by having more Americans own a piece of the rock.

BROWN: When do you think the everyday American will start feeling that and -- and getting, you know, not feeling the pressure on the prices?

MOORE: We're -- we're going to bring -- I -- I feel confident that we're going to bring inflation down to 2 percent, which is the Fed rate that we want to see, 2.8 percent ain't so bad. I mean, Pam, when I graduated from college, the inflation rate was 8 percent. So, you know, that -- there's a big difference between 8, 9 percent, and 3 percent.

BROWN: All right. Stephen Moore, thanks so much.

MOORE: Thank you, Pam.

[17:43:25]

BROWN: Well, from tariffs to affordability, a lot there to discuss. The panel is standing by, and we'll get some reaction, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: And we are back in our Politics Lead, and I want to get straight to the panel for a reaction on what we just heard from the former Trump economic advisor, Stephen Moore, about President Trump and the economy. I'm wondering what you think, Sabrina, because you worked at the Pentagon under the Biden administration. What struck you?

SABRINA SINGH, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR & GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, I -- you know, I think the argument that the economy is doing better is frankly something that just people are not feeling in their pocketbooks.

And even though he was making the argument that it's going to take time, I mean, the reality is, is that this is Trump's economy. You can no longer blame the previous administration, President Biden, for some of the, you know, inflation prices that we're seeing, the -- the cost of groceries, gas prices, things like that. So as much as this administration wants to spin that, it's a really stark contrast to see that, and then also this remodeling of the ballroom.

You know, people are feeling it really hurt at home, and then you're seeing this like, you know, effort to just spend taxpayer dollars or, you know, they're saying it's privately funded to remodel a ballroom, and it's just a big contrast.

BROWN: I want to go to this quote, T.W., from a construction worker from Missouri -- Missouri who told "NBC News" that he voted for Trump in 2024, but now he says, "everything's already so expensive. That's the worst thing about his presidency so far, is he promised things coming down, and prices are not coming down. I make more money than I've ever made in my life right now, and it has financially been a struggle." Is the President out of touch with people like this construction worker?

T.W. ARRIGHI, VICE PRESIDENT, PUSH DIGITAL GROUP: I don't think so. I think when you talk about affordability, there's a lot of factors that go into it. Prices in general, we talk about what goes into the prices of any good, and one of the major factors of pricing is energy, and Donald Trump has led the way in expanding energy production in America, bringing back domestic production of energy.

There also is the side of getting more money in the pockets of Americans. How do you do that? We do that a few ways. We do that in the form of tax cuts, and the big, beautiful bill, not only did they extend the tax cuts of the previous administration, but they also got no tax on TIP, no tax on overtime, no tax on Social Security. Those are real impacts.

But beyond that, the trade deals he is doing, and the -- the new investment in America that we are seeing come in, are going to build new jobs into the future, bring technology back. Those things with wage growth and bringing down the core components of what make prices are going to be really -- really beneficial.

[17:50:05]

BROWN: But that all takes time.

ARRIGHI: Yes. Of course.

BROWN: That all takes time. I mean do you -- how do you see this playing out until the midterms? Because there are people, like who I just said, that construction worker, who were feeling the pain, who voted for Trump, and they said, you said you would lower prices, and that hasn't happened.

ARRIGHI: I think you're going to see it happen. As these trade deals come up, new markets expand to producers in America. That means more jobs, more market to sell our goods. That means we have more goods coming into our country. That also drives the price lower. If you have, you know, more goods in the bucket to buy, that drives the price lower. Energy costs will continue to come down. All those things take time to marinate, but we have time before the midterm, and I think you'll see the results.

BROWN: All right. I want to turn to another issue here in Washington, and that would be the Jeffrey Epstein documents. The President, as we know, has been at odds with several congressional Republicans, and today, instead of calling on Attorney General Pam Bondi to release all the files, he's asking her to investigate Epstein's links to notable Democrats. What do you think about that move, Sabrina?

SINGH: Well, it's yet again Donald Trump using the Department of Justice as a -- as a political tool. I mean, it is so rare to see presidents direct their attorney general to prosecute their so-called perceived enemies. And that's exactly what you're seeing with this president. And they're doing it strategically. I think they want to try and open investigations up so that they cannot release certain files or -- or documents from the Epstein case, because they're going to say, well, it's an ongoing investigation, now we can't release these files.

Regardless of where you stand on this issue, you have people in this administration, Kash Patel, Dan Bongino, other people who have made careers talking about the Epstein files. So now to say, like, oh, let's not release it, it's -- it's a bit ridiculous.

BROWN: Yes, what do you think?

ARRIGHI: I think that I'd like to see all the information out there. And I don't care if you're a Democrat or Republican, you ought to be held to account.

BROWN: Yep.

ARRIGHI: Look, I think one of the things that's troubling to me is this giddy sort of underlying narrative by the Democrats that Donald Trump is for sure implicated and has wrongdoing in this case, even though there is no evidence to -- to say that. I want every -- I want the information out there, and I want everybody, regardless of political party, to be held to account.

BROWN: But do you think the way that he has handled it, you know, and even today telling his DOJ, investigate the Democrats, which means now the DOJ could -- could theoretically say, well, we can't release anything now because this is an investigation. Does it raise questions for you? I mean, does it feed into a perception of wrongdoing, even if there is no wrongdoing?

ARRIGHI: I'm not so certain because I think one of the things I -- I grapple with a lot here is there were four years the Democrats were in power that they could have released this, but they didn't because they wanted to hold it over Donald Trump's head for political gain. Again, Democrat or Republican, does it make a difference? Everyone needs to be held to account, and I think we need the information out there.

BROWN: Do you agree how he's handling it? Is this the advice you would give him and how he's handled the Epstein matter?

ARRIGHI: I want as much information out there as possible.

SINGH: I -- I think this is a real case study in how to not handle some of the crisis communication situation.

ARRIGHI: I think Bill Clinton's getting away with a lot here. We don't talk about him a lot. He's on a book tour. Doing just fine.

BROWN: All right, no -- no criminal evidence there either. We should note that and Trump as well, and we've just got to be buttoned up on all fronts. Stick around. We've got more to talk about.

[17:53:07]

Will the hot mess airline situation during the government shutdown linger into the Thanksgiving holiday season? The Points Guy is here to weigh in, next.

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BROWN: Breaking news in our National Lead, the FAA this afternoon lifted some of its shutdown-related restrictions on air travel from 6 percent of flights cut down to 3 percent. All part of the race to get air travel back to normal after the longest government shutdown in U.S. history.

In a little over one week, a record-setting 31 million passengers are expected to fly for the Thanksgiving holiday weekend, and that question remains for so many of us. Will holiday travel run smoothly, or will the delays and cancellations from the shutdown linger?

So let's discuss now with Brian Kelly, founder of The Point Sky. All right, Brian, are things looking up for air travel?

BRIAN KELLY, FOUNDER, THE POINTS GUY: I am optimistic. The numbers are looking good. You know, today, over 600 cancellations, but that's down from 3,000 earlier this week, so things are certainly stabilizing.

BROWN: So what will it take to get air travel back on track to where it was before, fully stabilized?

KELLY: Fully stabilized, we're looking at hiring 3,000 to 4,000 new air traffic controllers and training them, which will take years, because let's remember, before this meltdown, you know, Newark had air traffic issues, but it does appear that air traffic controllers are -- are working, the call-outs are minimal, and they're all getting bonuses now if they came to work, so I think the morale there is up, as well as the TSA.

So, you know, all things are good. I think the things we should be looking out for are weather-related incidents, that could kind of throw the system out of whack, or -- or outages, but overall, I -- I think things are looking good.

BROWN: What can passengers expect, and what can they do to ensure that they're reaching their destination for the upcoming holiday travel period? So many of us have those travel plans. Should we stick with the flight? Or some people think, well, should I -- should I rent a car and drive? But it sounds like if you have a flight booked, you're going to be OK.

I think you're going to be OK. Look, there -- there are still, the 3 percent of flights that are being cut are mostly regional, short flights. So those flights, yes, you might want to think about, you know, a backup plan if necessary. But I think people are shocked. Now I'm hearing airports are running smoothly today. TSA is good, but, you know, my general tips remain.

You know, make sure you always have the airline app. Be proactive when you see a delay happening, see where your plane's coming from. But overall, I do not think people should be panicking. And I think we're going to have a smooth, hopefully Thanksgiving travel.

BROWN: That's the kind of message we like to hear, Brian Kelly, especially on a Friday. Thank you so much.

Welcome to The Lead. I'm Pamela Brown in for Jake Tapper. This hour, the President ordering a new Epstein investigation looking into the dead pedophile's ties to Bill Clinton, Larry Summers, JPMorgan Chase and more, why this investigation is so much different than the others.

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