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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump Orders Investigation Into Ties Between Top Democrats And Epstein; John Beam, Coach Featured In Netflix's Last Chance U Dies After Shooting; THC-Infused Gummies And Drinks Face Ban Under New Funding Bill; WaPo: Rubio Says U.S. Visas Can Be Denied Over Obesity, Chronic Health Conditions. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired November 14, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Pamela Brown in for Jake Tapper.

This hour, the president ordering a new Epstein investigation looking into the dead pedophile's ties to Bill Clinton, Larry Summers, JPMorgan Chase, and more, why this investigation is so much different than the others.

[18:00:06]

Plus, breaking news, a beloved football coach featured in a Netflix series has died after being shot. What we're learning about the circumstances behind this tragedy.

And also the notable name making a personal plea trying to get rid of a ban on hemp that was slipped into the bill to reopen the government.

Plus, a brand new view today showing the East Wing demolition at the White House.

The lead tonight, President Trump deflecting on the Epstein scandal following this week's release of a trove of Epstein emails mentioning Trump by name. Now, there is a new federal investigation into Epstein's ties to other high-profile figures. That's because Trump publicly instructed the Justice Department to look into former President Bill Clinton, former Treasury Secretary Larry Summers, Entrepreneur Reid Hoffman, JPMorgan Chase, and others. And meanwhile, the House is expected to vote next week on releasing the Justice Department's full Epstein case files.

Remember, the vast amount of documents released by the House Oversight Committee so far are from the Epstein estate, which means we have yet to see the entirety of what the Justice Department may have on the Epstein case.

CNN's Chief White House Correspondent Kaitlan Collins joins us now. All right, Kaitlan, what's the latest?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I mean, Pam, it was just about 10:35 this morning when the president blasted out this Truth Social post going off about what's been happening with the Jeffrey Epstein files on Capitol Hill ever since we got those new emails this week that showed that over the last 15 years in private correspondent, Jeffrey Epstein had named Donald Trump personally in several of those emails, also implying things that he knew or didn't knew, didn't know, and having conversations about him.

And in that post, the president blame Democrats and saying that they were trying to distract from the government shutdown being resolved here, and instead said that he was directing his attorney general, Pam Bondi, to open up an investigation to the other high-profile Democrats that were named also in those emails that we saw, people like Larry Summers, the former treasury secretary under President Obama.

And just a few hours later, Pam, and this is something that a few years ago would have been essentially unheard of given there has always been this line of independence traditionally between the Justice Department and the investigations it's conducting in the West Wing, but only a few hours later, you saw the attorney general, Pam Bondi, posting this afternoon about 2:12 P.M. saying that -- quoting the president's post and saying that she would be naming Jay Clayton as the attorney, the U.S. attorney, overseeing this investigation that the president has made clear he wants.

It's going to be coming out of SDNY, which is also, of course, what investigated Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell in the first place. And so they are moving forward at the Justice Department with the president's directive to use this.

But, really, Pam, I mean, just beyond the fact that the president is saying, open this investigation, and the attorney general is saying, yes, sir, we're going to open this investigation, you have to look back to what the attorney general and the Justice Department and the FBI said just back in July, when they put out that letter that prompted all of this backlash from the president's MAGA base, saying that there was not going to be any more disclosures coming out of the Jeffrey Epstein case, that they had reviewed all of the information that they had.

And, Pam, I was looking back at that letter and this is the line that stood out to me the most given the president's post today. This Justice Department run by Pam Bondi said, quote, we did not uncover evidence that could predicate an investigation against uncharged third parties. That is them saying in July they did not have anything to move forward with any other investigations of other people. Now, today, they're saying that's exactly what they're doing.

BROWN: That's a really important point. Kaitlan Collins, thank you so much. And Kaitlan will have much more tonight on her show, The Source with Kaitlan Collins. That's tonight at 9:00 Eastern on CNN, and on the new CNN app.

My next guest is on the House Oversight Committee, Republican Congressman Pete Sessions of Texas. Hi, Congressman. Nice to see you.

So, next week, the House is expected to vote on the release of the Justice Department's entire Epstein files. Will you vote for or against it? REP. PETE SESSIONS (R-TX): You know, at this point, Pam, I will tell you that it's very interesting to watch the president as he continues not just to pivot, but to get closer, I think, to the deal that most members are for, and that is release all the information. I think the information should be released. I have been for that to at least the government reform and oversight bipartisan committee that we attempt to look at this.

But to withhold that data and information means that there will probably be about a hundred Republicans that will vote to say yes. As to my vote I have not made that determination.

[18:05:00]

I will make that determination when it's time. And we'll see what happens at that.

But this is an important matter that is not going to go away. And it's going to require, as I think most of us believe, that we need to answer the questions, if not on a bipartisan basis, at least where we can make statements, how it happened, who was responsible, how it was paid for.

But this goes all the way back, as you know, to 2006, and that's a long time ago. And so to look back too far at too much of this stuff and draw conclusions today is going to require us to have a lot of discipline and work together.

BROWN: I just want to go back to what you said earlier where you said the president's pivot on this. What did you mean exactly on that?

SESSIONS: Well, certainly, what was just reported here that the president of what the attorney general had said a few months ago and now what they're doing, I think that this is going to require us and them to look at substantially how they want this information to be released.

I have no doubt it's going to be released. But I do have a question and I'll just tell you right now. I don't know the entire brevity of this. I'm not interested in words or accusations or unfounded things that may be said. There is and was a report that was done by law enforcement. We ought to go through that, finish going through that. We've gotten testimony. But we need to find out what the law investigators, what the law enforcement investigators, what the prosecutors came up with.

We've already heard that Alex Azores (ph) accepted the state penalty and to plead guilty of, I don't know enough about what those federal charges might have been. Who has custody of those things today? We heard just a few months ago that the attorney general did not receive the information even though she thought she had and found out some of it was still with the FBI.

So, there's still much that's got to be uncovered that we have the right and the responsibility to do. I just don't think it's to release files that are not -- have not been through a law enforcement-vetted circumstance first, and then we see what the truth is.

BROWN: I just want to drill down a little bit more on what you say is the president's pivot on this because, as you know, he called on his attorney general to investigate prominent Democrats as it relates to Epstein. Hours later, Pam Bondi, the attorney general, said she was on it and had already put forth a prosecutor. And now, because it is an investigation, right, the DOJ can simply say, well, we can't release anything now because this is an ongoing investigation. So, does that concern you as someone who wants more transparency on this?

SESSIONS: You know what? I take your words as something that is and has been used however. I would also tell you that this is not something that needs to go on forever. I don't think it's in anybody's best interest, but the bottom line is he will have prosecutorial ability to find out if we don't have the tapes. I don't think we've established who has the tapes. I don't think we've established who has custody and did have custody. So, we might need some help in this endeavor. Congressional inquiries are not always met the proper way.

So, look, I think this is a big deal. I'm for us getting to the bottom of it. And I think that they're referring to this, quote, pivot, I'm in reference to, I think that Pam Bondi, the Department of Justice, and this person who now will be doing the investigation, needs to lay out for us the things that they feel like they need and may not have that's embodied within these documents.

BROWN: And I just want to be clear, when you mentioned tapes, can you be more precise on what you were referring to there?

SESSIONS: Well, there are thousands of hours of tapes. Each of these three areas, at least on the islands and in Florida, Alex Azores had presumptively hundreds of hours of tapes of bedrooms, of parties, of people who were there. And there was a lot of information that we have yet to actually see the evidence of.

So, I think there's a lot more that's going to be done. And it may quite well require a special prosecutor with literally an FBI agent by their side going up and having, you know, what is typically called a badge and a gun. But if you lie to them, that is perjury.

[18:10:02]

And that is a very serious charge. And so we need that kind of help. We found out with President Biden that House investigators did not have that same latitude with people. And so people, in essence, deferred not to speak to us. This is something that it may quite require a special prosecutor, so I'm not against it yet.

BROWN: And just to be clear, are you talking about Alex Acosta earlier?

SESSIONS: We are.

BROWN: Yes. Okay. Congressman Pete Sessions of Texas, thank you. Have a nice weekend.

SESSIONS: You bet.

BROWN: The breaking news, shock in California's bay area. First, the shooting of a beloved former football coach, and now we're learning he has died. The mayor of Oakland, California, will be here next.

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[18:15:00]

BROWN: Breaking News in our National Lead former football coach John Beam, known nationally for being featured in the Netflix docuseries, Last Chance U, has died after being shot yesterday on the campus of Laney College in Oakland, California. Police identified the suspect in Thursday's shooting as a 27-year-old who was acquainted with Beam. But investigators say Beam did not have a close relationship with the suspect.

Oakland Mayor Barbara Lee joins us now. Very sad here, Mayor. Do you have any more information as to what happened here?

MAYOR BARBARA LEE (D-OAKLAND, CA): I don't have a lot of information. Of course, our police department, they have arrested a suspect. And, in fact, I believe the weapon has been confiscated. And, you know, it is just an incredibly difficult week for our city. And let me just take a moment to send my condolences and my love to Coach Beam's family and the thousands of people that he knew and mentored.

You know, Coach Beam has a legacy that we all have to lift up. Given the way he mentored young people, people who never would've had a chance, including my nephew. He was his coach at Skyline High School. And so everyone had a connection to him and he was a phenomenal human being. He was somebody who cared about others. And it's just something to think that he's not with us anymore.

He was very, very clear about who he was and why not only being a coach and an athletic director, he was also a mentor to young people who, as I said, may not have had a chance to even go to college. And my nephew reminded me that he provided entree and opened the door for so many young people to go to college and to get scholarships where they never would've had that chance had it not been for Coach Beam.

We are deeply sad today, grateful for his life, but grieving this moment tremendously.

BROWN: Yes. And he impacted so many lives and has quite the legacy. It's personal for you, as you mentioned. He was so beloved in the Bay Area and we saw that in that Netflix documentary, Last Chance U. How was the overall community doing after this loss?

LEE: It's hard. People are having a very difficult time. Everybody, elected officials, of course, his family and friends, the community, I was at the hospital last night and people were there, just came because of the love and the concern and the outpouring of support for the coach. He touched so many people from so many quarters, so many aspects of life, so many professions, so many people who didn't have a profession, people who were struggling, people who were of means, police department, children and he was friends with everyone. And he was someone who encouraged everyone too. He never thought that anyone was a lost cause.

And so as a person who lived a full life, a purposeful life, he is already -- people feel it already, they feel the void and are grieving this loss like you would not believe. It's really hard, Pam.

BROWN: Yes. I mean, it's not just your community there, right? It's like all these people who have watched this Netflix show and has grown attached to him through that show, right? And we should note that Thursday's shooting came just one day after a student was shot at an Oakland High School, two shootings on school grounds in one week. What do you say to students and residents there who are so concerned about this?

LEE: Now, let me tell you, this was the school where Coach Beam had been a coach in the past, and this is the school where my nephew attended, and the young people, the trauma, the fact that this happened on the campus, the fact that they -- let me tell you, these young people at Skyline High School, they were prepared, but they were so instrumental in making sure that the police department got there very quickly. So, the staff and the teachers and the young people at Skyline High School really helped to save lives, quite frankly.

And they're mourning. They're sad. They're traumatized. And so we're working -- I was there yesterday also at the school talking with the people there who really are developing ways to help support these young people who, for the life of them and me and anyone, we can't figure out why there's so many guns on the streets of America, the streets of Oakland, and how these guns get into the hands of these young people.

[18:20:02]

Gun violence is a public health issue and I worked in Congress with the surgeon general to declare it a public health issue.

But also, let me just say those that perpetrate these horrific murders, they have to be held accountable. And so we're working on many aspects of this. But the young man, thankfully, who was shot will survive. I saw him also at the hospital right upstairs from Coach Beam where he would coach me and where he was. And so it's just a very sad, tragic.

But this city is resilient. We're pulling together, everyone is supporting the families and so much love and grief is outpouring. And we just hope we can, you know, move forward and use the life of Coach Beam as an example of what we need to do.

BROWN: Well, may his memory be a blessing, for sure. Oakland, California Mayor Barbara Lee, thank you.

LEE: Thank you, Pam.

BROWN: Up next, a new federal indictment that prosecutors say involves illegal sports betting, a mafia family and more than a dozen arrests. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:25:00]

BROWN: In our Sports Lead, a case that feels ripped straight from an episode of The Sopranos. We are learning of yet another sport betting scandal, this time involving college athletes and the mafia in New Jersey. Prosecutors say 14 people face charges for running a multimillion dollar betting ring operation. And according to officials, Joseph Perna, also known as Little Joe, a member of the Lucchese Mafia crime family, recruited young gamblers to bet using offshore websites, bringing in about $2 million in illegal transactions.

All right, I want to bring in ESPN Senior Writer Dan Wetzel. He has written extensively about illegal sports betting. So, Dan, help our viewers better understand this latest case and how this alleged ring worked.

DAN WETZEL, SENIOR WRITER, ESPN: So, this was a state charge from the New Jersey attorney general, and it's really -- it does have some ties to college sports but it's mainly sports wagering. They were -- Perna of the Lucchese crime family allegedly was trying to recruit and use kind of young college age bookies. It's a lot more -- it's a pretty common tactic. You're more likely if you live in a college dorm to bet with the kid down the hall or the guy in the fraternity that you know you may not realize that those bets are still being tied up to organized crime, but it seems pretty innocent. It's a good way to do business.

So, they had recruited a lot of guys and were running an entire operation. 14 people arrested, over $2 million gambled, most of it is sports wagering. They were betting through, you know, an illegal bookmaker, through your local bookmaker. It did include a couple of former Rutgers wrestlers, but we really have no information right now from the State of New Jersey, whether, you know, any sports were compromised or anything like that. It's really just more college kids that could have gambled legally through some of the online sites, instead chose to still gamble illegally.

BROWN: Wow. And now look at this, and we've seen these other recent scandals, right? Last month, there was that massive NBA gambling scheme. Then just days ago in baseball, two Cleveland Guardians pitchers pleaded not guilty to allegedly rigging pitches.

Bigger picture, what's the solution here, if any?

WETZEL: There isn't much because if you put all these together, there really has been all sorts of different cases, right? We have small college basketball. We have Major League pitchers making millions of dollars a year. Chauncey Billups, an NBA coach and a Hall of Fame player who's, you know, earned hundred million dollars in his career, at least. In different ways, they're all getting caught up in it.

And so it's hard to really design, you know, one solution to say, hey, if we just educate this way, or if we just make this one tweak to the rules of the laws, this will discourage everyone from doing it. It's really hard to know everyone's motivations on this. Some of them don't make any sense. Some of the Cleveland pitchers were -- they're making $2,000 to rig a pitch, allegedly, throw a ball when they when everyone was betting, they're going to do a strike. How do you really police that?

So, the one good thing about all these scandals, they are coming up in the news a lot, they are in the headlines, is that prosecutors are -- it's working. They're finding ways to bring charges of the integrity, analytics and software that gambling companies and states use are flagging different things, and particularly federal prosecutors in the Eastern District of Pennsylvania and the Eastern District of New York are taking this very seriously and cracking down on bets really small and large.

So, the one way to stop it is really the deterrent of any athlete out there to say, you know what, look at all these other guys that got caught, I'm not going to be able to pull this off.

BROWN: I'll never understand why any athlete would do it either because we just like given usually their salary, what they make, why put it all on the line, right?

Dan Wetzel, thank you so much.

Ahead, one man's personal plea showing up at the White House trying to get a ban on hemp reversed. He'll be here in our studio next.

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BROWN: In the National Lead, a provision tucked inside the government funding Bill will soon ban the sale of hemp-based items that contain THC. That's the psychoactive ingredient in the cannabis plant. The measure is aimed at products like gummies or drinks that are often sold without regulation at gas stations, liquor stores, or online. But a former NFL lineman wants President Trump to consider the economic and health impacts that could come with this new restriction and reverse it.

Former New Orleans Saints Player Kyle Turley is here. He is also co- founder of Project Champion, an organization dedicated to legalizing cannabis. And we should also note he owns a number of dispensaries in California and also in Tennessee.

So, Kyle, you have talked openly about how hemp has changed your life. Talk to us about that, because when you were in the NFL and you sustained injuries and it really helped you.

KYLE TURLEY, FORMER NFL PLAYER: Oh, 100 percent. You know, being an NFL football player, you know, we're the most prescribed people, I think, on the planet when it comes to pharmaceuticals, especially in the era that I played, you know, from the late 90s through the 2000s. We were pretty much the guinea pigs for those. So, having the experience of being addicted to pharmaceuticals, understanding the need to get off of pharmaceuticals, you know, that's what my life's been about.

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It's been a long journey that I can say though, cannabis saved my life over ten years ago, continues to do so every day and, you know, push me to know more and more and more about why this is happening.

BROWN: So, you take it every day?

TURLEY: Every day, all day, every day, in every form or fashion.

BROWN: So, like right now, are you on cannabis?

TURLEY: 100 percent, yes. We have an endogenous cannabinoid system. It's the number one regulatory system in the human body. So, understanding that of why this is working for me, you know, I mean this legislation is going to affect patients the most at the end of the day because it completely reverses the 2018 Farm Bill, which has allowed patients in states that are still trying to figure it out, you know, the opportunity for people to experience cannabis at the base level, which this clearly attacks.

BROWN: Tell us more about what you think the economic impact of this restriction could be. And, I mean, we should note, as I said, you also have a stake in it from an economic standpoint.

TURLEY: Yes, 100 percent. This is going to reverse everything the 2018 Farm Bill has done. So, now this is going to criminalize, not only take away businesses, you're going to lose almost 400,000 jobs in America for this. I don't see the sense in that. You know, this is going to completely cripple the hemp industry when it comes to farming. Within the new language, there's not one strain of cannabis that can grow to full potential and meet these standards of the new testing. So, you know, I mean, where do we go with this? Who did this is what the question should be.

BROWN: Well, the bill is meant as it's portrayed to target bad actors that sell products with high dosages of THC through this loophole and that Farm Bill we were talking about.

Senator Rand Paul is in support of getting rid of the new restriction in the funding bill. I know you were trying to reach out to him. He has not responded. Maybe you guys can connect after this interview. But he explains in a new op-ed, the provision that was inserted into the government funding bill makes illegal any hemp product that contains more than 0.4 milligrams of THC per container. That would be nearly 100 percent of hemp products currently sold. This is so low that it takes away any of the benefit of the current products intended to manage pain or other conditions.

So, for reference, the average cannabis edible product in a legal state, such as Colorado, California, contains five or ten milligrams of THC, according to the Journal of Cannabis Research. What would the industry see as a happy medium regulation that would eliminate those bad actors, but also create an effective and accessible product for those who want to utilize it?

TURLEY: Yes. There's been a lot of people that have tried to do this. I mean, Rand Paul, you mentioned is the number one. I've been a big supporter of what he's put together with his Hemp Act. I think that the, you know, cannabis community, if they are truly behind what this industry is about, needs to back the Hemp Act with Rand Paul, because this resolves this.

It's an over 85-page bill that answers every one of these questions. It provides regulatory systems in it. It acknowledges the medical need for this and the opportunity for people to not only benefit the way they are, but make it even better, which completely answers the question of what this is.

You know, marijuana's a made up racist term. This has been hemp. It is hemp. It will forever be hemp. And this conversation continues to go into semantics, which is not where we need to be right now. We need to be on facts, and things are very factual within this bill that are going to happen to American citizens, farmers, patients, everybody in this industry that the politicians have promised all of these things to, that it's going to get better, it's going to get better.

You know, I put everything I have from my NFL career into this industry. There is a reason for that. This saved my life. Many of my brothers would still be here today. That's a fact. And if given the opportunity, as I push through the NFL to try and get them to understand this, it's giving full PowerPoint presentations, I will continue to fight for this because I honestly don't believe Donald Trump, I don't think President Trump understands the full language within this bill. It completely reverses what he should be championing, which is a $30 billion industry that he created in America on American citizens. And, you know, farmers, patients, and business owners don't deserve this, especially right now.

BROWN: Kyle Turley, thank you so much for your time and getting your message out.

TURLEY: Thank you.

BROWN: Well, a slew of racist texts unearthed by CNN's K-file team blew up a Trump nominee's chances of being confirmed by the Senate. But now this person has a new job with the Trump administration. We're going to talk about that up next.

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[18:40:00]

BROWN: Today at the White House, a clear view right here showing what is left after the demolition of the East Wing. This view is from the observation deck of the Washington Monument, which reopened today after the government shutdown ended. Crews started tearing down the East Wing a month ago to make way for President Trump's new 90,000- square foot ballroom. And in our Politics Lead, just one month after Paul Ingrassia withdrew his controversial nomination to lead the Office of Special Counsel after racist text messages surfaced, a White House official tells CNN Ingrassia has a new role with the Trump administration as deputy general counsel at the General Services Administration.

We are back with our panel to talk about this and much more. All right, so we should note Politico was first to publish some of those messages, and just to remind our viewers, in one message that Ingrassia allegedly sent, it said, quote, I do have a Nazi streak in me from time to time. I will admit it. CNN's K-file investigated some of his online activity and found, quote, Ingrassia and his podcast X account have also shared comments from notorious white nationalist and Holocaust denier Nick Fuentes.

T.W., do you think he should have a job at the Trump administration?

T.W. ARRIGHI, VICE PRESIDENT, PUSH DIGITAL GROUP: Unfortunately, I don't have a say in that matter that lies solely with the president. I can tell you I do not like the text messages I saw, whether it was in jest or whether it wasn't, it's completely unacceptable. There's no place in our movement.

It's clear though that the president doesn't like his hand forced on an ally by the left. And so I don't know what happened in their personal conversation, which Ingrassia said he had with the president, which he informed him of this move.

[18:45:02]

Who knows if there was a reprimand or not, we don't know. But it looks like the president said instead of having this highly visible liaison job, were going to bury you at GSA.

BROWN: Several Republicans, we should also note, said he wouldn't get through the Senate, right? So, it wasn't -- it wasn't just the left on this.

ARRIGHI: I don't think I'd vote for him either.

BROWN: Yeah.

Sabrina, what's your take?

SABRINA SINGH, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR & GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: I mean, I think moving someone around like this, moving them in government no matter what -- I mean, the question is really why? I mean, why does this person even have a role when someone says they, quote, have a Nazi streak? I mean, I don't know why. It's just hard to defend. I certainly don't think he should have a place or a role in government. As T.W. said, we don't have a say in that matter.

But, you know, this is someone that was not going to get through the Senate. Republican senators made that clear. So, moving him into this position again, you have other controversial people, in the administration that have said horrific things, antisemitic things, but yet there's still -- some have even been promoted.

So, it's not a surprise that he's been moved into this, this new position. But, you know, it doesn't represent the values I would hope of the Republican Party.

BROWN: Does it reflect more of a trend of this administration saying we are not going to be bullied into anything, whether it's a federal judge or, you know, the media and their view or the left, whatever the case may be. And so, they will do anything they can to, you know, to not kowtow. What do you think?

ARRIGHI: Yeah, in some ways I do think that, and I think there's evidence to say that they're under more scrutiny than any administration in history. We see it through the lawsuits against Donald Trump, the incessant determination to pick out staffers and get into their personal life and get their text messages and so forth. I do think they feel a bit like they have to push back, like protect our people. Now, that doesn't excuse anything that was said, surely. But I absolutely do think there is a sense of circling the wagons.

BROWN: Right.

SINGH: I would say that in serving in the Biden administration, we came under heavy, heavy scrutiny, whether from all angles and including staff. I don't think its unique to this administration. I think that's just what happens with administrations. I do think it has become more politically polarized. And that -- and that has gotten worse and worse over time. But I don't think its unique to the Trump administration.

ARRIGHI: Well, I would go so far, if Barack Obama started building that ballroom, you would not hear anything of like what you're hearing right now. I swear to you.

SINGH: Not only would we -- we wouldn't have even been able to move a John Deere contractor to the premises of the White House. People probably would have chained themselves to the White House if Barack Obama ever thought about tearing down the East Wing.

No, that absolutely deserves scrutiny. I'm so sorry, my friend. That's just so inaccurate. It's just, like, so funny.

ARRIGHI: Every administration has complained about the lack of space in the White House.

SINGH: Yeah, but that doesn't mean you have to tear down a ballroom. I mean, I'm sorry. No. Under any -- Democratic administration, we would have been absolutely -- there would be oversight hearings right now.

ARRIGHI: That -- I disagree with you wholly.

BROWN : Can they -- can they figure out the media section of the White House because it is so tiny? There are like, rats right out of the ceiling.

ARRIGHI: Expansion is not a bad thing. But let's not forget that a conservatory in a greenhouse at the White House that was expanded under three presidents and knocked down to make office space, we had gardens paved over to make the Rose Garden.

SINGH: I'm sorry. If we had done anything that this administration did, whether it was from the ballroom to renaming the Department of Defense, the Department of War, that's going to cost $2 billion. The amount of scrutiny a Democrat would have faced, the amount of scrutiny that Barack Obama would have faced, would have been wall to wall every single day. We would have been picked apart.

We would not have been able to start construction on a ballroom. I just I emphatically --

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: You guys are clearly not -- you're not going to agree on this, but I did want to get to something else that was really I thought was interesting that "The Washington Post" is reporting that the State Department is now considering denying foreigners visas over factors like obesity and other chronic health conditions, such as heart disease, cancer and diabetes.

A White House official says, quote, state department policy has included an authority to deny visa applicants who would pose a financial burden to taxpayers.

President Trump's administration is finally fully enforcing this policy and putting Americans first. What do you think, T.W.?

ARRIGHI: The public charge element of the State Department's duty is broad. We see in the MAHA movement a big push, not only expanding the Ozempic drug, but a look at long term health problems that people are having, chronic health issues. Obesity is obviously a big one.

We know people come here illegally to seek medical treatment. This is a way of protecting ourselves from that.

SINGH: Look, Trump's immigration policies, I -- there's no question that there's a need to secure the border. There's better -- there needs to be better scrutiny. This seems like a policy that is just -- it's so erratic. And that's why you saw voters last Tuesday reject part of the Trump administrations doctrine when it comes to immigration, because they are rejecting these policies. And I think this is one of them.

BROWN: All right. Sabrina Singh, T.W. Arrighi, thank you so much. I'll let you all take that conversation online about how it would have played out under President Obama.

Okay. Up next, CNN's Jake Tapper and a must-see thriller.

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[18:54:52]

BROWN: CNN's Jake Tapper sat down with "Muzzle" star actor Aaron Eckhart.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST, THE LEAD: One of the reasons I wanted to talk to you is because you're screening this film for veterans doing an event with Disabled Veterans of America and the characters of veteran, and this seems like an issue that you care a great deal about.

AARON ECKHART, ACTOR: Yeah, I've been around the military, you know genre in movies a lot, and I respect them. I learn a lot from them. Their skill sets, their mentality, what they're going through after they come home from deployments, how it is on deployments and I have a lot of respect for the military.

TAPPER: And I know in the past -- I don't know, do you call yourself a method actor? Is that -- is that --

ECKHART: That's an interesting question. It --

TAPPER: Like in parts and roles where you --

ECKHART: Yeah, you --

TAPPER: -- were in a wheelchair.

ECKHART: You -- yes. And that in that sense, yes. But not going into the method acting too much. But when you're a method actor, it's very difficult on the crew.

TAPPER: Yeah.

ECKHART: And people around because you're in that character and people don't know how to relate to you. So, I like to be as method as I possibly can. You want to inhabit that person and be that person?

It's hard to relate with people on the set, but you need to be in that character as much as possible.

TAPPER: So, what's it like returning to this role? And also, what's this about you being hit over the head with a real terracotta plant pot, as opposed to a stunt one?

ECKHART: Yeah. I like the role. I like the complexity of the role. You know, talking about people coming military coming home from deployments. They have a structured life in the military. They know what they're going to do. They have a hierarchy.

When you come home and you try to, then you don't have that hierarchy or structure. People can lose themselves and they can get into addiction, and they can get into other things and find it difficult.

And that's what my character does in this film. He doesn't -- he can handle the dog. He can handle the structure of police life. But his family life, he can't handle.

And so, he goes into addiction. Yeah. I was doing a stunt with a fight, you know, and talk about method acting. You want to. You know, I want to feel the pain. You know?

So I'm fighting with this. This trained stunt guy, and for some reason, he finds a terracotta plant that's come out of nowhere. It's not choreographed. And he slams it over my head and opens up my head, bleeding and everything. We finished the scene.

It's like Charlie Chaplin says, if the building falls on me, don't cut. You know, he's famous for saying it.

TAPPER: So, it wasn't intentional. No accident.

ECKHART: No, he hit me with the terracotta plant. And so, he finished. And I was, you know, I'm bleeding. It could have been my, you know. And I said -- I said, what are you doing?

TAPPER: Right.

ECKHART: And he says to me, I don't know, I just picked up that plant and I wanted to hit you in the head with it. And so -- there you go.

TAPPER: Well, live by method, die by method.

ECKHART: Yeah, I didn't -- I didn't -- I mean, I wasn't -- I had to take a five minutes, but I came back and it was good. It's in the movie.

TAPPER: Yeah. Oh, is that right?

ECKHART: Yeah.

TAPPER: So obviously you have a canine costar. And I know, you know, and I know this is part of your advocacy work, but, like, it's that a lot of veterans need dogs.

ECKHART: Yes.

TAPPER: What was it like working with that dog? And do you have a dog?

ECKHART: I used to have a dog. Died. But yes, these dogs are important. They're fighters. They're warriors. I'm the dog's costar.

(LAUGHTER)

TAPPER: Was it fun working with the dog?

ECKHART: Yeah. When I got there, I said to the trainers, I said, listen, you guys, this is my dog now. I said, nobody feeds this dog. Nobody gives him the goo goo gagas. Nobody touches him. You know, it's my dog now. And that's how we treated it.

So, when I'm saying you know, Foster, you know, go attack or whatever, he's really going on my commands, which is really extraordinary because, you know, when we're doing these scenes, the dog is just hugging this beautiful Malinois dog. It's just leaning up against your leg.

TAPPER: Sweet.

ECKHART: It's really is.

TAPPER: Well, so what about your dog that passed away?

ECKHART: Well, I was in New York City living in, you know, squalor. And my then girlfriend said she went to a pet shop and said, if there's a yellow lab in there, I'm going to buy him for Aaron. And there was.

So, I went home and there was this little puppy with a ribbon around his neck, and I said, get that dog out of here.

TAPPER: Yeah.

ECKHART: And I had him for 13 years. Took him everywhere. Julia Roberts took him on her plane, and I said, I said, how was my dog? And she says, get your dog out of here.

TAPPER: But you're not going to -- I mean, I'm sorry that he passed away. I know that's devastating. I've been through that myself. It's time for you to get another dog maybe?

ECKHART: No. If I did, I would get a Malinois. I -- they're fantastic dogs. They listen, they're smart. So, it's a pleasure working with them. It's a pleasure doing this movie and I -- it's a pleasure for -- to me that veterans are using these dogs for their needs. And then -- and then using them for their needs after the war.

TAPPER: Well, thanks so much for your advocacy for veterans.

Aaron Eckhart, a real pleasure.

ECKHART: Thank you very much for having me.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Coming up Sunday on "STATE OF THE UNION", Dr. Mehmet Oz, the administrator for the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. Also, Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia, and former Ambassador Rahm Emanuel. That is Sunday at 9:00 a.m. and Noon Eastern on CNN.

You can follow me on X and Instagram @PamelaBrownCNN. And if you ever miss an episode of THE LEAD, you can watch the show on the CNN app.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now. Have a great weekend, everyone.