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The Lead with Jake Tapper

National Guard Shooting Suspect To Face Murder Charge; Sources Say, U.S. Military Killed Survivors Of Boat Strike; Winter Storm Could Wreck Post-Thanksgiving Travel; Axios: Trump & Johnson To Hold Tele- Rally Ahead Of Tight Tennessee Race; Cookie Mogul's Daughter Details His Life In New Podcast. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired November 28, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Boris Sanchez in for Jake Tapper.

This hour a cross-country winter storm threatening to wreak havoc on post-Thanksgiving travel with a potential to drop heavy rain and multiple inches of snow across the U.S. this weekend.

[18:00:02]

The storm also bringing frigid arctic air that will send temperatures plummeting. We're tracking it all in the CNN Weather Center.

Plus, an urgent software problem could also cause issues for air travel as Airbus announces thousands of passenger planes need immediate maintenance before they can fly again. But airlines are saying about delays and cancelations ahead.

Also, President Trump's new immigration crackdown, the White House working to permanently pause migration from what he calls third world countries after an Afghan national was confirmed as the suspect in the shooting of two National Guard members. The new information we're just learning about him.

And the iconic Famous Amos cookies are a staple in living rooms and lunch rooms across the country. Tonight, the daughter of Wally Amos joins The Lead to introduce you to the man behind so many sweet memories.

The Lead Tonight, the suspect in Wednesday's attack on two National Guard members in downtown Washington, D.C., now facing a murder charge after 20-year-old U.S. Army Specialist Sarah Beckstrom died of her injuries. The other Wounded Guardsman, 24-year-old Air Force Staff Sergeant Andrew Wolfe, remains in critical condition.

CNN's Brian Todd is near the scene of the attack with the latest details. Brian?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right, Boris, we have some incremental but important new information regarding the one Guardsman who was wounded in the attack, Andrew Wolfe, 24 years old. A spokesperson for the Joint Task Force D.C., which oversees the National Guard, told us a short time ago that Wolfe is still in critical condition. The spokesperson said she was not aware at the moment of any pending surgeries or other procedures for Wolfe, but they're trying to nail that down. So, we hope to get some additional information regarding his treatment and what he may be going through in just a short time.

And we can also reiterate the information that we know about the deceased National Guard member, Sarah Beckstrom, who lost her life as a result of this shooting. She was 20 years old from Summersville, West Virginia. She began her military service on June 26th, 2023, and she was assigned to the 863rd Military Police Company. Her family and friends talking to CNN extensively about how dedicated she was as a guard member over the past couple of days.

And we additionally got some new information regarding the suspect, Rahmannullah Lakanwal, 29 years old, an Afghan national who was airlifted to the United States in 2021. According to Jeanine Pirro, the attorney general for the District of Columbia, he is now going to face an additional charge of first-degree murder in this case. He had previously faced three counts of assault with intent to kill while armed, and one count of possession of a firearm with the intent to commit violence.

Now, Attorney General Pam Bondi had said earlier that he was going to face the death penalty. She said that if a service member had lost their life as a result of this attack, that they would do everything that they could to seek the death penalty. And, of course, unfortunately, that has come to pass. So, we're going to see how the legal process plays out for the suspect.

In the meantime, Boris, what we could show you is a very moving scene here at the scene of the shooting. This makeshift memorial has really grown exponentially since we've been here just over the past day. Lots of bunches of flowers, notes, wreaths and flags placed here.

And we'll pan up a little bit to the ledge just above the memorial because that was a very interesting scene. We saw a young 21-year-old Marine place that vase with the roses there. And just below the vase there, you can see an American flag patch and two challenge coins, which military members and service members also law enforcement people tend to exchange with each other as gestures of goodwill.

And we talked to this young Marine who declined to give us his name because he was not authorized to speak to the media. But he told us that he found all the political rhetoric and the finger pointing surrounding this attack, quote, disgusting. He says, it all has to stop. We have to realize here that a young service member has lost their life. So, he was just one of many members of the public coming through here praying, laying flowers, and reflecting on the tragedy that occurred right here outside the Farragut West Metro Station. Boris?

SANCHEZ: Yes. Our thoughts are with that fallen service member's family and the one still in the hospital. Brian Todd in D.C., thank you so much.

A lot of questions are being raised by now about the process that allowed the shooting suspect not only to come to the United States from Afghanistan but then be granted asylum by the Trump administration, as well as what led him to drive all the way from Washington State to the nation's capital to carry out this attack.

Let's bring in CNN Senior Correspondent Josh Campbell, who used to work for the FBI, and CNN, Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst John Miller. And, John, I understand that you have some new reporting on the investigation into the suspect.

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, so far as they've been going through his computers and social media, what they have not found is something that points them at a clear motive that could develop any day now as they get more access to more electronics and then get communications from different internet providers.

[18:00:06]

What's interesting, Boris, is that process of the vetting. When I was at the Joint Terrorism Task Force on the NYPD side, when all of this was going on in 2021, we knew there were problems with the vetting, incomplete documentation from Afghanistan, documents that weren't complete, dates of birth that were hard to track, information from multiple U.S. agencies that were across multiple different databases, not a centralized one where it was hard with all the different names to figure out who was who and what their exact background was.

But in this case, you have an individual who had worked for the U.S. in a CIA supported special military team, and the Afghan military Special Forces. This was a team operating in Kandahar where Rahmanullah Lakanwal had been one of the soldiers that was used to target members, according to my sources, of the Taliban, of Al-Qaeda in Kandahar, the Haqqani network, a number of the places there. So we had an awful lot of information about him. Vetting was not going to be the problem.

This is the question that emerges, Boris, which is, right now, out of 80,000 immigrants, we have exactly two cases that seem to relate directly to terrorist plots. One is this one, the one in front of us, but the other involves a man in Oklahoma City named Tawhidi. Now, Nasir Tawhidi had also worked for the U.S. in Afghanistan as a security officer at the CIA base in post, which is the same hometown as Rahmanullah Lakanwal.

So, what you're seeing is two men who we had a special relationship with, who served the United States, who risked their lives and their families, both of whom passed the vetting process because we had a lot of information on them as the two that emerge in these plots. In the Oklahoma City plot, Nasir was supposed to be gathering 500 rounds of ammunition, two AK 47s, according to a federal complaint, to do an attack on Election Day.

SANCHEZ: Wow.

MILLER: It's raising this question in the background, less about the vetting and more about the analytic question, what happened to these two men who fought for America in Afghanistan, fought to get to America with their families, and then in a very short number of years, turned against the country that they had called their new home?

SANCHEZ: Yes. And, Josh, one of the interesting aspects of this new reporting is that sources are indicating that the suspect's family said he suffered from PTSD. What are you learning?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, that would make sense. I mean, a lot of times when the CIA and FBI agents, U.S. military are on the frontlines overseas trying to stop threats, it's these foreign nationals embedded with them that are trying to help do the same thing. I mean, these types of assets are critical to have a host nation person that can help serve as a fixer, an interpreter, help serve as an intelligence collection platform. And so that would make sense if that indeed ends up being the case. Of course, that doesn't excuse the heinous behavior that happened.

One thing that interests me is that as authorities try to determine whether this was someone who was truly inspired or directed by a foreign terror organization versus someone who was acting upon their own grievances, is there are certain peculiarities here. The, first, and I'll note that, you know, when John and I were in the FBI, we would routinely pour over reams of propaganda from these foreign terror networks. And if you look at the victim pool here, and this is grim, but this is something that analysts are looking at, we're talking about two people that were shot. Groups like ISIS don't want two people shot, they want 200 people shot.

And so that is notable that this person was going to risk his own life to approach this small group of National Guards members on the streets of D.C. And then the second thing that stands out is the type of weaponry that was used. John, just mentioned in a previous case, a person was gathering AK-47s, these assault-style rifles.

What type of firearm are we talking about in this case in D.C.? It's a revolver pistol. These are often clunky. They can be slower to reload. And so, again, if this was someone who was really following the direction or inspiration of a foreign terror group, they would have all kinds of other weaponry that they could achieve, you know, or obtain semi-automatic weapons and the like in order to conduct a mass casualty attack.

So, a lot of questions still at this hour to determine whether this person was inspired or, again, whether this was PTSD or some personal grievance.

SANCHEZ: Josh Campbell, John Miller, thank you both.

With us now to discuss is retired U.S. Army Major General William Enyart. He's a former commander of the Illinois National Guard as well as a former member of Congress. Sir, thank you so much for being with us.

What do you make of this new information we're learning that the suspect's family members say he's suffered from PTSD, from post- traumatic stress syndrome because of his work alongside the U.S. in Afghanistan?

[18:10:07]

MAJ. GEN. WILLIAM ENYART (RET.), FORMER ADJUTANT GENERAL OF ILLINOIS: Well, it's certainly not surprising when you look at the combat that he likely saw. And the events that I'm sure took place during his service period in Afghanistan. I've not yet heard how long he served, but, certainly, he served with CIA units, as well as evidently Afghan Special Forces units, he certainly saw some heavy duty action. So, it's quite likely that he did in fact suffering from PTSD. Of course, that's absolutely no excuse for what has happened here.

And Josh made some really interesting comments and thoughts that I raised earlier today, and that's the type of weapon that he used. You know, he drove cross country, drove 3,000 miles in his own vehicle to get to Washington, D.C. So, he certainly could have brought a vast array of armament with him that would have been far more effective at killing people if that's what he was out to do. And so I have to wonder about that. And likewise, what we have to examine here is what transpired between 2021 when he arrived in this country and today that caused him to go from an ally to being an enemy.

Based on what we've watched unfold on Wednesday, are you anticipating there might be changes in how soldiers conduct themselves or their operations here in D.C. or elsewhere in the wake of this attack?

ENYART: Well, certainly the, in fact, there's already been reporting that now. Washington, D.C. Police will be accompanying National Guard soldiers. And, you know, here's the fact of the matter. National Guard soldiers are not civilian law enforcement personnel. They're not trained to do that. We're trained to be combat soldiers. That's the training we receive. We have two missions. One is to be a combat force reserve that deploys overseas to battle with the nation's enemies. And the second is to serve as a trained ready force for the governor for natural disasters and hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, that sort of thing, or occasionally civil disturbances.

But what we are not, we are not a trained civilian law enforcement. And, of course, as you know, a lone wolf is just a nightmare of all security personnel, whether they're law enforcement or military or intelligence services. They're so hard to stop.

SANCHEZ: And, Major General, I guess the attack also raises questions about the process of admitting some of these folks into the United States. As we heard, there had been some issues. John Miller was explaining with verifying birthdays and certain documentation. Would you like to see changes to that process?

ENYART: Well, you know, we have engaged in bringing in allies after war has been lost since, to my knowledge, Vietnam. And there is always that chaos. Anytime you have the end of a war and a withdrawal, people are going to lose documents. They're not going to have passports or birth certificates.

You saw some of the chaos that was going on. So, a lot of those verifications are very difficult, which is what makes this case so unusual. This guy was a known commodity. He had worked for us. He wasn't just vetted coming into the country. He had been vetted virtually every day that he worked for the CIA by his actions and what he did.

So, we're always -- certainly, when you have a withdrawal of a force and you're bringing your friends out of the country that's lost, you're going to have some of those missing documents. But for other countries, it should be much easier to obtain the documents.

SANCHEZ: Retired General William Enyart, thank you so much for your insight.

So, CNN is learning new details today about the very first U.S. boat strike on alleged drug boats in the Caribbean, just as President Trump teases potential land action in Venezuela.

Plus, from family drama to financial pressure, the holiday is a stressful time for so many of us. What's the best way to make it through unscathed and try to find some joy in all the chaos? The Lead's resident psychologist is here to help.

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[18:15:00]

SANCHEZ: Today, we're learning new details about U.S. military strikes on suspected drug boats in the Caribbean. It comes as President Trump once again is threatening to expand the attacks to include targets on the Venezuelan mainland.

Let's bring CNN National Security Analyst Beth Sanner. Beth, thanks for being with us. So, sources tell CNN the U.S. carried out a follow- up strike on a suspected drug boat on September 2nd, targeting survivors that were in the water following the initial strike. What's your response to those new details?

BETH SANNER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: I find it really shocking. I mean, if you imagine this, let's put this in a circumstance that we can all relate to, it's like having a car full of drugs, if that's what the case was, driving somewhere in the United States, police open fire on it, or law enforcement. You go up to the car, you think everybody's dead. No, someone's alive and you pull out a gun and you shoot them. That's the equivalent of this.

I think that we get kind of inured to some of this because it's distance, right? It's from a drone or a missile, so it doesn't feel real, but it's the same. And it's the same result. And I don't think that Americans are probably okay with that.

SANCHEZ: I wonder obviously about the legality of it given that there's a level of evidence that is required to prosecute any drug trafficker. And, fundamentally, there's a question of whether the death penalty, whether execution, should be the punishment for what they're allegedly doing. It hasn't quite been adjudicated. What do you make of this debate? And do you think it's going to stop anytime soon? SANNER: Right. Well, you know, I mean, for terrorism, this is exactly what happened in Afghanistan, and, you know, drone strikes, and they were based these things called signature strikes where you identify someone based on their activity.

[18:20:12]

So, someone -- you see someone planting an IED on a road where military vehicles are coming down, okay, that's a terrorist, we're going to strike that person and kill that person.

But here, we're talking about narcotics, and this is why the administration has designated these groups as narco-terrorists or terrorists because they're kind of equating those things. And I think that that's the sticky part of this. If they don't actually physically threaten the people who are in combat with them, then the justification is weaker.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

SANNER: And so I think that that's the issue.

SANCHEZ: What do you think of Trump saying that soon there will be actions taken on land to prevent drug smuggling from Venezuela into the United States?

SANNER: Right. You know, I -- look, I think that we should care about cartels and we should care about drug smuggling. I mean, cartels are ruining the lives of millions of people who live in the region and all the victims in our country and lots of countries, right? But I think that there is an issue of, you know, do we have the right to go and strike a cartel in another country? Maybe we do. But I think that we have to kind of work through those processes. If it's focused on the drug cartels and they, you know, get some Congressional approval or whatever they do, you know, maybe that's not something that is a terrible thing.

SANCHEZ: Sure.

SANNER: But I think that the question is, is this really about the drugs? Because this isn't fentanyl after all, this is cocaine and most of it's not even coming to the states. Is that what this is about or is this about regime change or trying to encourage that?

SANCHEZ: Well, the U.S. has designated Nicolas Maduro, the leader of Venezuela, as a narco-terrorist effectively. I mean, what do you think comes next? Is it clear to you that we're headed to regime change or at least the campaign to get there.

SANNER: I think that I think we're engaged in gunboat diplomacy. And this is why -- you know, this is why there is reporting now about Maduro and Trump having had a phone call this past week, if that's true. To me, I think that it's correct analysis to say that President Trump is trying to work this on two tracks in order to get Maduro to step aside, and I think that's the preferred thing. But maybe we'll see some escalation to get there. SANCHEZ: We shall see. Beth Sanner, thank you so much. I hope you had a Happy Thanksgiving.

SANNER: Thank you, same to you.

SANCHEZ: Still to come on The Lead, a massive winter storm threatening direct post-Thanksgiving travel is bringing lots of snow, frigid temperatures to much of the country. We're going to take you to the CNN Weather Center for the latest forecast when we come back.

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[18:25:00]

SANCHEZ: In our National Lead, a dangerous winter storm is set to slam the United States this weekend with heavy rain and several inches of snow. The cross-country storm expected to upend post-holiday travel plans as people head back home from the Thanksgiving holiday.

CNN Meteorologist Allison Chinchar is tracking the storm force in the CNN Weather Center. Allison?

ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Boris, we have roughly 40 million people stretching from the Northern Rockies all the way over to the Great Lakes that are under these winter weather alerts, as that next system really begins to ramp back up. In fact, by tomorrow morning, look at all of this heavy snow that is expected across states like Iowa, Illinois, Missouri, Kansas, and Nebraska.

On the southern edge, we have mostly rain here. It's just a little bit warmer, but also the potential for some strong to severe thunderstorms. By Saturday night, now, the main focus for all that heavy snow is places like Chicago, Detroit, even into Cleveland. And then by Sunday morning, now, we see the bulk of that winter weather begin to push into areas of the Northeast, as well as the Mid- Atlantic.

Winds are also going to be a concern. You'll start to see those tick back up overnight tonight and into early Saturday 30, 40, even 50 miles per hour gust is not out of the question. That's going to take all of that snow below it all around, and that reduces visibility, making it very difficult to drive out there on those roads, not just Saturday, but even spreading into Sunday.

Overall, the highest snowfall totals are going to be in this pink area you see here, where we could be looking 8 to 12 inches of snow. Keep in mind, some of these same areas got snow earlier in the week. So, this is on top of what they already had leading to unfortunately even more travel problems.

Down to the south, a concern could be the potential for severe thunderstorms, places like Houston, even up around Shreveport, looking at damaging winds, large hail, and we can't roll out the potential, Boris, for an isolated tornado.

SANCHEZ: Well, Allison Chinchar, thank you so much for that update. So, Airbus announcing today that thousands of passenger planes need immediate maintenance now that could affect air travel as we head into this busy holiday weekend, next.

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[18:30:00]

SANCHEZ: In our World Lead today, Airbus announced thousands of its planes need immediate maintenance, a move that American Airlines admits could lead to delays and cancelations on a busy travel weekend.

Let's bring in Miles O'Brien. He's a pilot and CNN analyst. Miles, thanks for being with us the day after Thanksgiving. I wonder how serious an issue this is going to be.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AEROSPACE ANALYST: Well, it's certainly an abundance of caution on the part of Airbus and when you consider the lack of reaction in the wake of the 737 MAX software problems back in 2018 by Boeing, you can see the industry is attuned to this issue.

As for the impact to the industry, I'm told it's a quick fix. It's about two hours to basically take the software back to a previous generation. But you have to do it all at once and everything is grounded. And so that has a huge ripple effect. There's only so many technicians that can get to it in short order. So, you will see impact, but on top of all the other impacts we've been talking, perhaps we won't even notice it that much.

SANCHEZ: Miles, how common is it for plane software to need an upgrade?

O'BRIEN: Well, it is something that is an unusual event. We're talking about solar radiation, so-called coronal mass ejections. The sun has an 11-year cycle and it's near its peak right now, and these charged particles come off the sun millions of miles an hour. It's what gives us the Northern Lights, for example. But it can cause real problems with satellites and high flying aircraft that are not shielded by the atmosphere.

What happens is these charge particles can change a one to a zero on a computer.

[18:35:02]

And that so-called a bit flip is enough to corrupt the data and cause difficulties for the navigation system, which are very computer- oriented on that 320.

Now, there are three computers involved, and supposedly these bit flips, if one computer has one, the other two outvote them and everything's fine. But in this case, it seemed to degrade the control authority of the computer. Everything was fine on this flight that had to make the emergency landing this JetBlue flight that had a sudden drop in altitude. But Airbus is, out of an abundance of caution, putting these aircraft on the ground, which is probably what Boeing should have done in 2018.

SANCHEZ: Yes. Wow. I didn't know the sun could do that to a plane.

Miles O'Brien, thanks so much for the insight.

O'RBIEN: Yes.

SANCHEZ: I appreciate you.

SANCHEZ: Between potential travel issues, full house, busy kitchens, and awkward conversations at family gatherings, holiday season can be an incredibly stressful time.

Here to give us some tips on managing the holiday, chaos is Psychologist Dr. Andrea Bonior. Doctor, thanks so much for being with us.

Obviously, it's about a month or so of a lot of time with family, a lot of time with folks that you may have to deal with the uncomfortable conversations and all that. What would you say is probably your best advice for folks dreading this time of year?

DR. ANDREA BONIOR, PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes, I mean, it's so drawn out too, right?

SANCHEZ: Yes.

BONIOR: Friends in Europe say, how do you go for that long? It starts so early with Thanksgiving and it keeps going. My number one piece of advice is to remember that relationships are more than just one day. They are more than just one bad conversation. They're more than just one frustrating argument. And so to take a deep breath, if there've been some tensions, for instance, at the Thanksgiving table, and to be able to say, I'm going to reset because this is a priority to me, having this person in my life and being able to move forward.

SANCHEZ: Yes. It's important to keep that in mind, as you said, that it's more than just one day or one meal. I also wonder how a lot of folks feel the impact of financial stress, because you're trying to buy gifts at a time where things just cost more than they used to.

BONIOR: Yes. And there's so much pressure. It's become so much more about largess and sales and consumerism. And I think it's really easy to forget what's the whole point here, right? And if you really think about the holidays, I mean, going back to when people talk about it having been a Pagan celebration, it was about the fact that things are getting really dark, right? The sun is going away for a few months. And it's a time to be grateful and to be together and to bring some light.

So, I really encourage a lot of people that I work with to try to keep that big priority, that it is about relationships, that it is about connection. And, you know, as most people will tell you, a lot of the spending ends up being for naught.

SANCHEZ: That is a good point. I can't tell you how many toys I've gotten my nephew and nieces that are just not around anymore.

BONIOR: Yes.

SANCHEZ: I also generally wonder what it's like for folks that are either working or aren't around loved ones for whatever reason. This seems to be a time of year where a lot of folks feel especially lonely.

BONIOR: Yes, there's so much loneliness anyway. And I think the expectations that this is going to be some amazing gathering where, you know, you see in pop culture there's lights, these family, multi- generation-type of gatherings, and it's like, you know, the truth is it's not like that for most people.

So, I think it's really important to feel the feelings, whatever they come and not set expectations so high. And if it turns out that you just want to take the day for yourself, that's okay.

SANCHEZ: Yes. There's also the question that at least I have about hangovers, and not just like alcoholic hangovers. It's the question of what you do when the holiday season passes.

BONIOR: Yes.

SANCHEZ: And you're looking at an entire year on the calendar and sort of the more nice and quiet part of the year is now over and you're having to get back into it. How do you deal with the doldrums of the early years?

BONIOR: Yes. I mean, I wish Christmas lasted a little bit longer in that way, right? People start celebrating in October. It's like, no, we don't need it now. We have Halloween and Thanksgiving. It'd be nice to have it in January. I think sunlight is actually really important, right, because there's a lot of evidence that for a lot of us when things get dark in the winter, it's just really tough for us to manage.

And so I think getting daily fresh air, moving your body, being able to set little goals to look forward to is just absolutely key.

SANCHEZ: I very much appreciate the expertise and the advice. Dr. Andrew Bonior, thank you so much.

BONIOR: Thanks again.

SANCHEZ: I appreciate it.

Still plenty more news to come on The Lead, Republicans and Democrats pouring money into a Tennessee election that is happening next Tuesday. We're digging into why a district that President Trump won by 22 points could now be a nail-biter in just a few days.

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[18:40:00] SANCHEZ: In the Politics Lead, President Trump claiming on Truth Social today that he's hereby canceling all executive orders and anything else not directly signed by President Biden, another step in his efforts to delegitimize Biden's presidential actions and draw more scrutiny toward Biden's use of the autopen.

Sabrina Singh and Joseph Moreno are back. Sabrina, you know that the autopen has been a fixture of President Trump's consciousness for some time. Here's several posts he's made. The people around the desk were in charge. The autopen was in charge. He also -- actually, I think we have the sound bite. Yes, we have the sound bite. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: He wasn't in charge. The people around the desk were in charge. The autopen was in charge.

It's a very complicated thing, if you're going to use the machine, you have to do it properly. And he didn't have any idea what was happening. And this is what we had as a president. We don't want that.

And while Biden was president, if he was president, I think the autopen was president, not Biden.

But it was really the people that told the person that operated the autopen what to do. Those are the people that really were president, okay?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: I'm glad it was a sound bite. I didn't have to read all that. What do you make of the move?

SABRINA SINGH, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR AND GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: I mean, I think this is Donald Trump trying to focus again and drawing attention away from some of the problems here at home that he's facing, whether it's Epstein files or, you know, this flailing economy. He's going back to the autopen because he thinks that there's some there, there and there's really not.

I mean, even during his first administration, he used the autopen.

[18:45:00]

Precedents -- there's a precedent here with Bush and Obama also using it.

I think if he wants to overturn Biden's executive orders, he can do that. But focusing on the legality of using the autopen, that's been held up in, you know, since 2005, I believe.

So, I think this is all a distraction. And it's a way for him to talk about Joe Biden. At the end of the day, Donald Trump is president. This is his economy. Maybe he should focus on something like that.

SANCHEZ: As a former U.S. attorney, Joe, can he legally do this? JOSEPH MORENO, FORMER GOP STRATEGIST: I mean, Sabrina's right. It is a

distraction. I would point to the fact, though, that there are three things that really show the dysfunction of government these days. It's running to federal judges. Every time, you don't like something, it's government shutdowns, which make us the laughingstock of the world and its overreliance on executive orders, which lets the pendulum swing back and forth every time there's a change in office.

We need to get back to basics, passing real legislation that actually has some staying power. So, whether it's through some autopen silliness or just legitimate reversing of executive orders, it shows it's a bad way to run our government.

SINGH: And we were talking about this. I mean, the use of executive orders was so rare and it really increased over time. And so, you know, I'm not saying that we didn't use it under the Biden administration. We certainly did. But to the extent that it's being used back and forth now, we do need to get back to legislating. And Congress should really start inserting itself a bit more here.

SANCHEZ: In order to do that, you need a majority, and it helps if you have a sizable one.

Tuesday, we're going to see the last electoral test of the year, a special House race in Tennessee's seventh district. "Axios" is reporting that Trump and Speaker Johnson are holding a tele rally on Monday night to try to boost the Republican candidate and additionally, MAGA Inc., the principal Trump aligned super PAC, has spent more than $550,000 in the race. That's according to media buying figures and two other pro Van Epps groups, Conservatives for American Excellence and Club for Growth Action, have also spent six figures apiece. Of course, Van Epps, the Republican candidate in the race.

Joe, this is going to be Trump's second tele-rally for this race in a district he won by 22 points. What does this signal to you?

MORENO: And a state he won by even more than 22 points. So, I mean, he's, you know, this should be a layup, right? This should be a really easy race. The fact that its polling within five points, maybe even two points, that's scary for Republicans.

And look, it's consistent with what we saw in '93, '94. In 2005, 2006, somewhat with 2021 and '22, the off-year election, followed by the midterm. It's going to be rough, even under good circumstances for the Republicans.

If inflation is high and Trump remains this polarizing, which of course he will, it'll be bad. It's the question of how bad.

SINGH: You know, I think to joes point, Republicans should never have spent money in a race -- in a district that Donald Trump won by over 20 points. So, the fact that a Democrat put the seat in play, even if she closes the gap, let's say, I mean, there is a poll that shows her within two points. You know, I think it's probably going to be wider even if she puts this seat in play and she loses, let's say, by ten points. That is a real clear indicator of where the electorate is. And Democrats have overperformed in special elections throughout the

year. And then look no further than what you saw in Virginia and New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Georgia, Democrats swept. So, the fact that they made Republicans spend, I think, is a big deal.

SANCHEZ: Having witnessed a blue wave in 2018, president Trump has tried to mitigate what is likely coming during the midterm election of an incumbent presidency by redistricting, by calling on Texas and other red states to change their borders, including in Indiana. Speaker Johnson is expected to meet with Indiana House Republicans this weekend. "Politico" is reporting a redrawing of that Indiana map could yield two Republican seats. There has been some internal resistance by Republicans in the state to this.

How should Democrats respond?

SINGH: Well, look, I think Democrats seeing the redistricting fight that happened in Texas, obviously, California responded to that. I think regardless, Republicans are trying and this administration is trying to steal seats. They know that their midterm -- they know that the midterms are going to be a real test of their power. They know that they're likely to lose. And so they're trying to do everything possible going to the courts, redrawing maps to maintain their hold.

And the reality is, is I think it will backfire. I think Democrats will do very well in the midterms, but it's going to be hard and we have to stay disciplined. And I think the message of affordability and talking about the economy, it's resonating with people because those are the messages that Donald Trump ran on and he hasn't delivered on.

SANCHEZ: Joe, quickly, do you think this plan is going to backfire?

MORENO: Of course it is. I mean, and I'm going to take -- you know, I'll take -- I think steal is a is a strong word. And I used to like to say that conservatives were more rule followers. But yes, of course it backfired. This is why you don't redistrict mid-decade. I wish they hadn't done it.

And now, it's probably going to lead to even a worse defeat than you would have seen otherwise.

SANCHEZ: Before we go, it is Black Friday, and I wonder if either of you made it out to the store today, because its becoming less and less common for folks to actually head out in person.

SINGH: I did, I mean, I was on my -- my computer for the first hour of the day, but then my family, my in-laws, we went out, we did go to a store. We did take advantage of the sales. It was -- it was good. But it is nice to do it also from the comfort of your own home.

SANCHEZ: So, you made it a family outing.

SINGH: We did.

SANCHEZ: How about you, Joe? MORENO: Same thing. I have nine kids. I have such good memories of

going to places like Toys "R" Us and FAO Schwarz, which I think are both gone.

SANCHEZ: Yeah.

MORENO: But the Macy's, you know, photos with Santa Claus, Barnes and Noble, big super bookstores. there's a social aspect.

[18:50:04]

So, I tell my kids, it's not about presents in Santa Claus, but there is a value in getting out there and seeing people and not just sitting at home ordering off Amazon.

SANCHEZ: For me, it's the counterpoint. I don't like being in large crowds, and especially when people are like --

SINGH: Rushing.

SANCHEZ: Rushing.

SINGH: Yeah.

SANCHEZ: Or they're forming huge lines. I do wonder if you all miss, because I certainly do, and I hope you don't think me callous. The videos of people brawling for just random crap on the Internet. It doesn't happen as often as it used to.

MORENO: I would hope not. At Best Buy, fighting over flat screen television.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

SINGH: And the lines outside for like hours in the day before. Yeah, I kind of do miss that, I do.

I remember going into a store once with my mom and seeing, like, the women rush to the handbag section and just like, scooping up all these handbags. I mean, it's kind of comical.

SANCHEZ: Somehow more civility in stores, generally, less civility in the political discourse.

MORENO: Yeah, unfortunately, I don't know what the futures going to hold, but right now it's a -- it's a -- it's a tough time, especially being a conservative.

SANCHEZ: Joe and Sabrina, thank you both so much and happy Thanksgiving. Thanks for being with us.

SINGH: Happy Thanksgiving.

SANCHEZ: So, this year marks 50 years since the iconic famous Amos cookies hit the market. Behind the crumbly, chocolaty treat, though, is a very complicated man and a story with a lesson for all of us. That's next

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:56:55]

ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: Everybody knows Famous Amos cookies. The chocolate chip cookies became a household name in the '70s. But few people know the story of Wally Amos, the man behind those sweet treats.

In a new podcast titled "Tough Cookie: The Wally Famous Amos Story", his daughter, Sarah Amos tells us all about her father's life, both in and out of the spotlight.

Sarah joins me now.

It's good to have you here. So, I love that you start the podcast by asking random people about their memories of eating these cookies. I love the way that food can bring so much back for people. They talk about these happy memories of the bite sized cookies. Your memories, though, are a little different, which is how we ended up here. So -- so tell us more about that.

SARAH AMOS, DAUGHTER OF WALLY AMOS: Yeah. You know, look, so many of my memories of my dad, Wally Amos and of Famous Amos are wonderful, joyous things. But he was a really complicated man. And as often as the case with people, there were multiple versions of him. And after he passed away last year, I really wanted to kind of put the full story of Wally Amos out there, because in my mind, even the more difficult parts of his life, of the things our family went through, were incredible learning experiences that I thought maybe if I kind of talked them all through with my family, might resonate with other people in a way that could do some good.

HILL: I know you've called your dad an influence. Before, this was really a thing, right? How so? And then also walk us through how he fell so hard.

AMOS: Yeah. No, I mean, look, my dad was the first person to ever really -- or one of the first people to ever really do cause marketing to look at his company and recognize that he didn't have the money for promotion and so attach himself to a good cause to kind of also promote his company.

He made himself into a celebrity in order to promote this cookie. And so, you know, he fell hard in large part at first because of his own ego. He really didn't trust the right people. He thought he knew best.

But also, when I get into this in the podcast, right, he -- he was a black man with a GED. So he really didn't have a lot of the connections and privilege that so many other business people starting out would have had. And so that combination of kind of the racial setbacks he had, along with his own ego and his own kind of missteps along the way, landed him in a situation where he lost control of the company and then eventually was sued for essentially trying to start a new company because Famous Amos said they legally owned his name and likeness for everything.

HILL: How difficult, as a journalist, is it to then turn and analyze this very personal story, this very personal subject in your father?

AMOS: Yeah, I joke all the time. I'm not a person who goes to therapy much. And so instead I decided to do my therapy in a very public manner, which some would say is a pretty insane choice. It was tough at times. You know, I think you have to check a lot of your own ego, and you have to really trust the collaborators -- collaborators that you're working with.

And I had such an incredible team, all of them really pulled no punches when it came to working with me on this and challenged me and pushed me to go farther than I was comfortable with sometimes. And luckily, my family was willing to do that as well, which is, you know, no small thing to ask to really all sit there and go through divorces and suicide. The list can go on. And we were essentially a black soap opera with no money.

HILL: Sarah, it's so great to talk to you. Thank you.

AMOS: Oh, thank you so much. I hope -- I hope folks enjoy. It's a great way to spend thanksgiving listening to someone else's family drama.

HILL: The podcast again is "Tough Cookie: The Wally Famous Amos Story". Sarah, thanks again.

SANCHEZ: Thanks so much to our colleague Erica Hill and Sarah Amos for that interview.

Don't forget, coming up Sunday on "STATE OF THE UNION," Republican Senator Markwayne Mullin, Democratic Senator Mark Kelly, and Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar. That's Sunday at 9:00 a.m. and noon eastern on CNN.

You can also follow me on X @boris_sanchez. You can follow the show on X and Instagram at CNN. And of course, if you ever miss an episode of THE LEAD, you can watch the show on the CNN app.

The news continues on CNN. Thanks so much for joining us tonight.