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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Watchdog Finds Hegseth Group Chat Risked Endangering Troops; House Democrats Release Photos, Video from Epstein Private Island; RFK Jr. Vaccine Committee to Discuss Pediatric Immunization Schedule. Trump Escalates Attacks On Somali Migrants & Rep. Ilhan Omar; Trump Cuts Fuel Economy Goals From 50.4 MPG To 34.5. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired December 03, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.

This hour, chilling photos and video of Jeffrey Epstein's private island released by house Democrats on the House Oversight Committee today. Now, that island off the coast of St. Thomas has long been a focus for investigators as it allowed Epstein to carry out his crimes out of the public eye.

[18:00:03]

I'm going to ask the top Democrat on the House Oversight Committee about the status of the investigation and the meaning of these images in just moments.

Plus, former Special Counsel Jack Smith, who led both the January 6th and the classified documents investigations and prosecutions of President Trump, he's now set to testify on Capitol Hill. What his lawyer is saying today about the testimony and why Jack Smith's request to testify in front of the cameras and the public was rejected.

Also in the Oval Office this afternoon, President Trump again ranted against Somali immigrants to the United States in a shocking display of bigotry. He also said Democratic Congresswoman Ilhan Omar should be thrown out of the country. Congresswoman Omar will join us live to respond to the president.

And we begin today with two major stories plaguing the Trump administration, starting with reporting that I broke with CNN Zach Cohen first on CNN earlier today. The Pentagon's inspector general has indeed concluded that Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth risked endangering troops when he shared sensitive war plans on the unsecure Signal app. That's according to four sources who saw the classified inspector general report, which was sent to Congress last month.

Now you'll remember back in March, Hegseth posted on Signal about plans targeting Houthi rebels in Yemen. It was in a group chat with other members of the Trump administration and accidentally a journalist, Jeffrey Goldberg of the Atlantic.

Hegseth is having quite a week. He's already been facing tough questions from Republicans and Democrats on whether war crimes were committed when the U.S. carried on that follow-up strike on that suspected drug boat killing survivors of the first strike. The other story that the Trump administration would prefer that we don't talk about or cover again is one relating to the Epstein files.

And that story, once again, is rearing its head as the House Oversight Committee Democrats just released these new images from the private island of Jeffrey Epstein. Not these images, I don't think. These are the images from the boat that was hit in the Caribbean. We're going to a different Caribbean images, images having to do with Jeffrey Epstein, the convicted dead pedophile and sex trafficker.

The Oversight Committee also says it has received about 5,000 documents in response to its subpoenas of JPMorgan and Deutsche Bank for Epstein's financial records. This as the Department of Justice, by law, only has 16 days left to release all of the Epstein files they have in the Justice Department's possession.

CNN's Kaitlan Collins is here with us. And, Kaitlan, let's turn back to that Signal gate story for a second, if we could. What is the White House saying about it? I mean, the I.G. report is pretty clear that Hegseth risked the lives of troops.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And they're picking certain pieces of the report to point to, because the Pentagon is coming out and saying it's a total exoneration of --

TAPPER: It is not.

COLLINS: -- Pete Hegseth, but that is a phrase that this White House uses a lot, one the president himself has used a ton and used after the Mueller investigation ended, for example. And obviously, as you know --

TAPPER: Also not a total exoneration.

COLLINS: The reality is more complicated than that phrase suggests.

And I think it's something the White House had been bracing for. They knew it wasn't going to be a report that was glowing or put the defense secretary in a good light. I think the issue that is facing them and one that the officials I've spoken to today realize is that this is coming at a time when Hegseth is under intense scrutiny for these airstrikes on this alleged drug boat and whether or not that second strike, whether they knew there were survivors when they struck and why they did so.

And the way this White House this term has registered whether something is really a criticism or something a problem they've to deal with, not just scrutiny that they're facing on television, is what Congressional Republicans are saying about it, specifically Senate Republicans, and I think with Hegseth in particular because his confirmation fight was such a slog and they'd worked so hard to get him confirmed, which is why he's been able to stay in that position and have the kind of -- I don't know if you would say success, but, you know, loyalty from the president is because of what that fight looked like.

And I think right now the White House views it as a headache, what's coming from the Pentagon and that it seems unprofessional. At least that was the issue with Signal gate. And so now they're dealing with this and with real concern from lawmakers who want testimony and answers from the Pentagon over what happened here.

TAPPER: Yes. Senator Rand Paul, Republican from Kentucky, he said yesterday that Hegseth has either been lying or incompetent when it comes to the stories he's been telling.

COLLINS: And you know what has stood out to me, as we've been hearing and having our colleagues ask a lot of these Senate Republicans? Many of them who voted to confirm Pete Hegseth into this position is whether they to help confidence in his leadership at the Pentagon, and a lot of them have not answered that question, Jake.

They're not saying no and going that far as to send that kind of warning shot to the White House, but they're saying they're not answering or they're offering some other kind of vague answer, which I think says a lot actually coming from these Senate Republicans.

TAPPER: Yes. What passes for courage in Washington these days, I suppose, not answering a question.

[18:05:00]

Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much.

And don't miss Kaitlan on her amazing show. It's The Source with Kaitlan Collins. Tonight, she's going to be joined by Republican Senator Thom Tillis and North Carolina. That's a good get. And I wanted him on my show. All right --

COLLINS: Well I was just watching your interview with him actually, Jake, back in July, I believe it was.

TAPPER: Yes. Yes.

COLLINS: He told you that Hegseth -- he didn't basically believe he was fully up to the job and that he was doing a good job. It's a real question of what he says now given the results of this report that you broke earlier.

TAPPER: Yes, you know. So, I'll be watching tonight at 9:00 and Eastern on CNN, so all my viewers will be watching, Kaitlan. So, do a good show tonight.

Now, let's discuss the latest on the Epstein files with Democratic Congressman Robert Garcia of California. He's the ranking Democrat on the House Oversight Committee.

Congressman, when you look at these images of Epstein's private island and the complex there that was released today by Democrats on your committee, it is very disturbing to think about young girls and women being in those spaces, being trafficked and such. What to you is the significance of these images?

REP. ROBERT GARCIA (D-CA): I mean, look, I think what's really important here is that anything that we receive and any place that we get them from, in this case was from the U.S. Virgin Islands and the government there, we're going to put out to the public.

We've put out over 150 images and videos today. The images are actually very disturbing when you think about the abuse of the rape of children and girls that happened here on this island. Much of the footage and photos that we have put out today have never been seen before and are new images. And so it's important for the public to see these spaces where these horrors happened.

And I think it just -- I think for the public and for this investigation just shines new light on actually what was happening and what these spaces actually look like. It's -- the dentist chair one in particular, I think, is very disturbing.

TAPPER: Yes. It's a dentist chair where who knows what was going on in that, and I think right behind it is a massage -- there it is, the massage table.

Can I ask you, why are the Democrats on the House Oversight Committee releasing things that the committee as a whole is not releasing?

GARCIA: because the committee as a whole is run by Republicans. And, unfortunately, they oftentimes don't release things. They hold things back and they only will go towards disclosure when we force their hand or push for a release.

Our commitment to the American public is if we get files or information from any source, whether that's been the Epstein estate, for example, in getting the birthday book that Democrats put out, whether that was getting the emails that we put out just two weeks ago about the president and Epstein and their relationship that we put out, we're going to put up the information that we receive. There should be nothing to hide and that the American public should not see, with the exception, of course, of protecting and redacting the names of any survivors.

And so Republicans want to continue to drag their feet, they want to support the president. And what we believe is a cover-up happening at the DOJ. And they choose to not release things. And we believe that when we get information, we're going to put it out. We received, as you know, about 5,000 pages of documents besides these videos. We are now working with two of the banks.

TAPPER: Right.

GARCIA: We're trying to get information documents there. So, that is ahead for the Oversight Committee in our work.

TAPPER: What are you learning from the bank records you received? Is there anything you can share?

GARCIA: Look, we just received those late last night, and so they are a pretty complex set of documents. What I can share is every survivor that we have talked to has been very clear is that we should follow the money. We know that there were enormous amounts of wealth that has since went into Epstein and his operation. There are ideas and thoughts of where that money has come from. Certainly, there are powerful men, possibly foreign governments, where this money has been transferred into, as we know, for the sexual trafficking ring, for the abuse of children and of girls. And so understanding and putting together the financial piece is going to be very important.

But I do want to note what we received from both Deutsche Bank and from Chase, JPMorgan, is just a piece of what they have. They'll be sending us more information. And there are only two banks that we want information from. We have a list of over 20 banks and financial institutions that we need to subpoena. And so we've asked Republicans to join us in that subpoena of those 20 additional banks, and we hope that they do so.

TAPPER: The Justice Department has 16 days left to comply with the law requiring a full release of all the files it has on Epstein with the names of the survivors redacted. Do you think they're going to meet that deadline?

GARCIA: Look I'm not holding my breath. I mean, the Justice Department has had over, what, three or four months to answer and respond to our subpoena at the Oversight Committee for the exact same group of documents, and they have done nothing. They've sent us, essentially information in a small batch that was already made available to the public. And so they don't need anything to act. They could today release all of the files.

[18:10:00]

Now that Congress has also voted in a bipartisan way, you would think that would compel them more to release these files, but they're choosing not to do so. In fact, we're still concerned and bringing to light this kind of sham investigation that they've launched in the Southern District of New York that they may try to use as a way of slowing down this release.

And so we will see what's upcoming. I hope they choose to release all the files. The survivors deserve transparency and they deserve answers.

TAPPER: Democratic Congressman Robert Garcia of California, he's the ranking member of the House Oversight Committee, thank you, sir. Good to see you.

Tomorrow, vaccine advisers are going to discuss potential changes to which vaccines are recommended for children. A look at why medical experts are really worried about what RFK Jr. is going to do there.

Plus, a CNN investigation into the fate of people who went missing while trying to find humanitarian aid in Gaza, that's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:15:00]

TAPPER: Some dramatic video just in, that's an Air Force Thunderbird crashing near Trona, California. It's about 200 miles west of Vegas. The pilot, thankfully, ejected before the crash. You can see the parachute to the left of the screen there. We're told the pilot's injuries are not life-threatening. We're going to keep following the story, bring you updates as they are warranted.

In our Health Lead today medical experts sounding the alarm against major changes that could be coming to the childhood vaccine schedule, a panel of CDC vaccine advisers, ones handpicked by HHS Secretary RFK Jr., after he fired the previous panel. They could vote tomorrow to delay the hepatitis B vaccine, usually given to newborns by weeks or even years. They're going to delay it by weeks or even years, doctors potentially.

Doctors warn that if the vaccine is delayed by just two months, at least 1,400 kids in the United States will contract the infection, which is currently incurable.

CNN's Meg Tirrell spoke to one man who's lived with the illness for decades and says he hopes the vaccine that wasn't yet a recommendation when he was born remains available and required for newborns today.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): At 16, John Ellis went to the doctor with severe stomach pain and left with a diagnosis no one expected, incurable chronic liver disease caused by the hepatitis B virus.

JOHN ELLIS, HEPATITIS B PATIENT: You know, at 16 years old there was conversations around what it would look like for me to get a liver transplant. To be blunt, I thought I was going to die.

TIRRELL: John was born in 1990, one year before the U.S. recommended that all newborns received the hepatitis B vaccine, so he hadn't been vaccinated by age three or four, the time his doctors think he contracted the virus based on the scars on his liver.

John and his family don't know how he was infected. Hepatitis B is incredibly infectious and people who don't even know they have it can transmit it to babies and young kids.

ELLIS: I would much rather vaccinations be available at birth than to have someone else live the experience that I've lived.

TIRRELL: But now some people might. Advisers to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention handpicked this year by Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. may recommend delaying the shots by months or years after expressing skepticism of the vaccine in previous meetings.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are gaps in what we know and understand about the effects of hepatitis B, particularly on very young infants. And I think that the conclusion that we know that it is safe is perhaps premature.

TIRRELL: But experts say it has a more than three-decade track record of safety and delaying the birth dose could result in an estimated 1,400 or more preventable infections in kids each year.

Dr. Anthony Fiore, a former CDC infectious disease specialist, tells CNN there's no rational justification for changing the recommendation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've seen tremendous reductions in childhood infections with hepatitis B. This saves lives. We're afraid we're going to move back to the time when children were slipping through.

TIRRELL: The virus is strongly linked to liver damage and cancer. John Ellis is now 35. Right now, his viral load is low and he's been able to lead a generally healthy life. He hopes the vaccine that wasn't yet recommended for newborns like him remains available for newborns today.

ELLIS: The perceived fear of the risk of vaccination has outweighed the real fear of the hepatitis B virus.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: And Meg Tirrell joins us now. Meg, this is not the only change to the childhood vaccine schedule that the panel might make.

TIRRELL (on camera): Yes, Jake. So, they are talking about hepatitis B tomorrow, but then there's a day two of the meeting on Friday where they're scheduled to discuss the entire childhood vaccine schedule. Now, the agenda that's been posted is fairly vague in terms of what exactly they plan to discuss there, but among the listed topics are, they're going to examine how the CDC evaluates risk of vaccines, and they also are going to look at things called adjuvants, which are added to vaccines to make them work better. And there are certain adjuvants that are in lots of childhood vaccines right now. So, if they made a change there, that would affect a lot of vaccines on the schedule.

And, Jake, this is such an influential committee because if they make recommendations that the CDC adopts, that can influence what insurance pays for vaccines. So, a lot of implications here to follow.

TAPPER: All right. Meg Tirrell, thanks so much for that report. We appreciate it.

He was in the running to Kamala Harris' running mate. Now, Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro says there's one thing Democrats could learn from Donald Trump. What is it? We'll discuss.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:20:00]

TAPPER: In our World Lead, a CNN investigation based on videos, satellite imagery, and eyewitness accounts points to the Israeli military bulldozing bodies of some Palestinians killed near an aid crossing in Northern Gaza. IDF whistleblowers who spoke with CNN also point to a broader pattern of the Israeli military mishandling bodies in ways that could amount to war crimes. These activities allegedly took place before the ceasefire began in October.

The result of it all, families in Gaza left searching for answers about loved ones who went missing while seeking aid.

CNN's Jeremy Diamond reports from Jerusalem.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My brother is missing. Anyone who saw or glimpsed --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: my cousin went missing yesterday in Zikim.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ehab Adel Mansour, 16 years old, went missing in the Zikim area.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My son went missing while going to the aid area in Zikim on Sunday.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Messages from desperate families, all searching for loved ones who went out to seek aid and never came back.

23-year-old Ammar Wadi was one of them. Last seen in June going to the Zikim crossing in Northern Gaza, where United Nations food trucks entered. His mother is still desperate for answers.

NAWAL MUSLEH, AMMAR WADI'S MOTHER: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE).

[18:25:08]

DIAMOND: Wadi's fate is still unknown, but A CNN investigation based on video, satellite imagery and eyewitness accounts points to the Israeli military bulldozing the bodies of some of those killed near the Zikim Crossing. IDF whistleblowers who spoke to CNN also point to a broader pattern of the Israeli military mishandling bodies in ways that could amount to war crimes.

Collecting humanitarian aid became a deadly reality in Gaza over the summer before the ceasefire took effect.

More than 2,000 Palestinians were killed by Israeli fire while trying to get aid, according to the World Health Organization.

The Israeli military has acknowledged firing toward these crowds but said it does not intentionally fire at civilians. Hundreds, some dead, others still clinging on to life, were hauled away amid the mayhem, including here near the Zikim crossing.

But amid the clattering of gunfire, others were left behind.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE). DIAMOND: Six aid truck drivers told CNN they saw dozens of bodies near the Zikim crossing. One shared these photos showing partially buried remains surrounded by aid boxes.

Some said they witnessed Israeli military bulldozers burying bodies. They've asked us to conceal their identities fearing retribution from Israeli authorities.

There are bodies everywhere decomposed, skeletal remains, one truck driver told CNN. Some are covered with dirt because the army cannot tolerate the smell of decomposing bodies, said another. I watched Israeli bulldozers bury the dead, said a third.

This video appears to show the aftermath of Israel's bulldozing alongside a crushed, overturned truck, partially covered bodies of several Palestinians jut out from the Earth. A paramedic at the scene said rescue workers managed to haul away 15 dead Palestinians. With the ambulance full, some bodies had to be left behind.

CNN geolocated the video to this location near the Zikim Crossing. You can see the overturned truck here alongside bulldoze roads and track marks left by heavy machinery or armored vehicles. These are the roads where crowds of starving Palestinians swarmed aid trucks on a near daily basis and where they were fired upon and at times killed by Israeli gunfire.

We geolocated multiple videos of people being shot and killed to these bulldozed areas, the same areas were Palestinians said some bodies were left behind in the chaos.

On August 9th, 31 hours after crowds are seen here, evidence of fresh bulldozing appears in the exact same location. This video shows just how close Israeli forces, including this D9 Bulldozer, were to those crowds.

The soldiers came in front of us, eyes to eyes, and the quadcopter was ten meters away from us. They were shot in front of us, and there was a martyr that stayed over there and no one could get close to him. We begged the soldiers to carry him back, but they didn't allow us.

We provided the Israeli military with GPS coordinates for the locations where bodies were likely bulldozed and a detailed list of questions. The military said bulldozers positioned in the Zikim area are, quote, used for operational purposes to deal with IED threats and for routine engineering needs. It denied they were used to remove bodies, but did not address questions about burying them. The military also declined to describe its protocol for dealing with bodies in Gaza.

The Israeli military's apparent improper disposal of bodies of Palestinians stretched far beyond Zikim. We spoke with two Israeli soldiers on condition of anonymity due to fears of retribution. Both described bodies of Palestinians being buried in shallow, unmarked graves in different parts of Gaza.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Essentially, the idea was to shove the body with a bunch of dirt clearing the road and push it to the sides.

DIAMOND: And that was it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was it, yes.

DIAMOND: The grave was not marked?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

DIAMOND: There was no identification process or notification process to any international or Palestinian organization?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not that I was aware of, not in my unit. So, essentially, we were never given any protocol or any order of how to handle any bodies.

[18:30:01]

There was never once that anyone told us, if you have a body, this is what should be done.

DIAMOND: By allowing the dead to become the missing, international law experts say bulldozing bodies into unmarked graves can violate international law. And if those bodies are mutilated or desecrated, the practice can rise to the level of outrage upon personal dignity, a war crime under the Geneva Convention.

As for Ammar Wadi, about a month after he went missing in late June, his phone was returned to his family. A message had been left on the home screen. Forgive me, mom, if anything happens to me. Whoever finds my phone, please tell my family that I love them so much, a message that reads like a young man's final words, words that are impossible for a mother to accept without a body to bury.

Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Jerusalem.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: And our thanks to CNN's Jeremy Diamond for that report.

He investigated Donald Trump, and now former Special Counsel Jack Smith is expected to testify on Capitol Hill about his actions. What we could learn from that testimony, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:35:00]

TAPPER: In our Law and Justice Lead today, former Special Counsel Jack Smith is expected to testify privately before the House Judiciary Committee in the coming days.

Let's bring in former Federal Prosecutor Elie Honig to discuss.

Elie, Republicans on the committee subpoenaed Jack Smith. Did he have to agree? Could he have tried to fight this? ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Jake, Jack Smith could have tried to fight this a couple of ways. One, he could have invoked his Fifth Amendment rights. Now, two of his senior prosecutors actually did take the Fifth over 70 times each when questioned by this committee. It doesn't mean anyone committed a crime. It means you're afraid your words might be used against you. Smith has chosen thus far not to do that.

He also could have gone into court, argued that the subpoena was defective or illegal. I think that would have been a tough argument to make. So, he's chosen not to fight this anymore and he's now agreed to testify in a few weeks.

TAPPER: Let's listen to what President Trump had to say about all this today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I think Jack Smith is a sick man. There's something really wrong with him. I'd rather see him testify publicly because there's no way he can answer the questions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: What do you make of the fact that this Republican-led committee won't allow Smith to testify publicly as he requested?

HONIG: So, Jack Smith clearly believes Donald Trump committed serious federal crimes. He indicted Donald Trump for holding classified documents improperly at Mar-a-Lago, for trying to steal the 2020 election. However, Jack Smith never had a chance to make his case in court to a jury. And so I believe Republican members of Congress do not want to give Jack Smith a platform where he can give those opening and closing statements he never got to give in court to the American public with the cameras rolling.

TAPPER: What arguments do you expect to hear from Republicans during the testimony?

HONIG: So, if you look at the letters Jim Jordan and others have sent Jack Smith, they clearly believe that he overreached in his investigation. He did obtain phone records, not a wiretap, he didn't listen in, but he obtained records of phone calls involving nine different Republican members of Congress for a four-day stretch. There's been concerned voice on both sides of the aisle about that. And Jack Smith did subpoena dozens of conservative and Republican interest groups, political groups, including Turning Point USA, Charlie Kirk's group, and various Republican political committees. So, I think they will want to dig into the reasons for that as well.

TAPPER: There has been a debate and accusations about whether Smith was acting politically during his investigation as opposed to a neutral arbiter of the law. What do you fall on that? What do you think?

HONIG: Well, Jack Smith clearly is fond of saying that he treated Donald Trump no differently than any other defendant, but I think that's demonstrably false. I'll give you one example. The average defendant in the federal court where Jack Smith charged Donald Trump in D.C. gets two years after indictment to prepare for trial. Jack Smith begged the court to let him try Donald Trump four months in change after the indictment in a case with 13 million pages of discovery. There is no physical way Donald Trump's lawyers could have exercised his constitutional rights to review the discovery.

Now, look, the reason for that, Jake, you and I have discussed, is obviously Jack Smith was pressing to try Donald Trump before the 2024 election.

Now, there's a fair argument about whether he should or should not have been doing that, I can see both sides of that, but you cannot deny that he was trying to try Trump before the '24 election. In fact, subsequent reporting has confirmed that. And I think if you're a prosecutor and you're treating a criminal defendant differently than others because he is running for office and you want to try him before that election, that's inherently political.

TAPPER: Elie Honig, thanks so much.

Yesterday, President Trump called her garbage. Today, he said she should be kicked out of the United States. Coming up next, Democratic Congresswoman Ilhan Omar is going to join us live to respond to these disparaging comments and the president's attack on Somalis in her states.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:00]

TAPPER: In our National Lead, new video shows Border Patrol Commander Gregory Bovino on the ground in the suburbs of New Orleans today. This is the first day of the immigration crackdown in that city with the Department of Homeland Security aiming to make more than 5,000 arrests.

That crackdown coming as a separate immigration operation is underway in Minnesota. That one targeting Somali immigrants who have been the subject of public scrutiny after a New York Times report detailing how fraud took root in pockets of the community with some, quote, making small fortunes by defrauding government programs of more than $1 billion of taxpayer money during the pandemic. We're talking about dozens of people in a community of thousands, of course.

Democratic Congresswoman Ilhan Omar of Minnesota is here with me now. First of all, federal prosecutors say 59 people have been investigated in these schemes so far. Americans at large stole tens of billions of forms of aid during the pandemic all over the country. Minnesota's fraud scandal stands out, according to federal auditors. What are you hearing from investigators right now?

REP. ILHAN OMAR (D-MN): Well, I've been following the cases closely as they've gone through the courts, and we know that there are more indictments possibly coming. I think that number might go up to 73 is what I'm hearing.

TAPPER: Oh, okay. Can you shed any light on why the fraud got so out of control in Minnesota?

OMAR: I think what happened is that, you know, when you have these kind of new programs that are designed to help people, you are oftentimes relying on third parties to be able to facilitate. And I just think that a lot of the COVID programs that were set up, they were set up so quickly that a lot of the guardrails did not get created.

TAPPER: Now, obviously, whatever the ethnic group, the actions of a few dozen should not impugn an entire community of thousands of people. Okay, I want to make that very clear. President Trump has used this fraud to make rather shock -- to me, shockingly bigoted comments about Somalis in general, including you, but the entire Somali community in Minnesota.

[18:45:02]

He did it yesterday and he did it again today. Let's run some of that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: These Somalians have taken billions of dollars out of our country. They've taken billions and billions of dollars. They have a representative, Ilhan Omar, who they say married her brother. She should be thrown the hell out of our country. And most of those people -- they have destroyed Minnesota.

She should not be. And her friend shouldn't be allowed. Frankly, they shouldn't even be allowed to be Congress people, okay? They shouldn't even be allowed to be Congress people because they don't represent the interests of our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: It's pretty shocking to hear it. Although I -- I don't know how shocked you are at this at this point anymore, but Somali immigrants in general, you in particular have been the target of his attacks for a long time. What's your response?

REP. ILHAN OMAR (D-MN): Yeah. I mean, I'm not shocked because we know that the president oftentimes resorts to very bigoted, xenophobic, Islamophobic, racist rhetoric when he is trying to scapegoat and deflect from the actual failures that he has himself. We know that this administration has not fulfilled majority of the promises that they've made, whether it is bringing costs down, whether it is the tariffs that are decimating businesses in the United States, whether it is the possible war crimes that his defense secretary is committing.

And so, to me, it is important for us, one, to remind folks that we are Americans. We're not going anywhere. And we will continue to be in this country. And two, that Minnesotans are resilient and we will continue to thrive.

TAPPER: What is the practical impact when a president of the United States demonizes an entire group of people based on based on ethnicity? And again, you can point to any ethnic group and find dozens of people in that ethnic group who are committing a particular crime. The mafia comes to mind, right?

But no one -- you don't hear people saying that about Italians. They did 100 years ago, but they don't do it today. What is the practical effect on the Somali community when the president says things like that?

OMAR: I mean, it creates fear. And there is a possible danger that a lot of the people who follow the president have exhibited violence in many cases, especially in my case, whenever he has said something about me that is derogatory or says I'm a threat to the country, I have gotten death threats. There are so many people that have been incarcerated over the years that have been encouraged by the president's words. And so there is fear for Somalis, not just in Minnesota, but across the country, that some of these people might attack and harm them.

TAPPER: And head of the immigration crackdown in Minnesota. CNN asked the Department of Homeland Security spokesperson Tricia McLaughlin about the remarks from the president. Here's what she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRICIA MCLAUGHLIN, ASSISTANT SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY: This is not about politics. This is about public safety. We saw what just happened last week with the terrorist attack against us here in our nation's capital, where one of our great heroes, Sarah Beckstrom, was killed. That's what the precipice of this was.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: What's your response to that?

OMAR: Well, it's certainly not we know that Somalis, over 90 percent of them are citizens of this country. Majority of them having been born in the United States. And we know that if you are a criminal, you're already you already have deportation orders.

And there is an easy way for them to do that instead of creating this sort of fear where they are having raids. And today, we saw them stopping citizens and people were proving their citizenship by showing their passports. And so, we know it has really nothing to do but keeping a community safe. It's actually terrorizing a community and creating fear.

TAPPER: Congresswoman Ilhan Omar, thank you so much for being here. Really appreciate it.

My political panel is also in the studio.

Joe, your reaction to what we just heard from Congresswoman Omar, as well as President Trump's comments today?

JOE MORENO, FORMER GOP STRATEGIST: Well, I mean, Jake, my reaction is, as a as a former prosecutor, I think my first take is that, this is the result of sort of lawfare and the abuse of the legal system that when you have one president followed by another president, just utilize the system to what seems like punish his enemies. Then you see an investigation like this one, coupled with racist comments, and people just say you have no, no faith in what's being done here.

There was a time when federal prosecution would never have been questioned, because it would have been said that whatever president brought it, these were legitimate cases. Now you have a situation where when you couple political leaning on the justice system, coupled with frankly racist comments from the president, people look at this and don't know what to believe.

TAPPER: And you heard it was sad actually, the Congresswoman Omar said that doesn't even shock her anymore.

[18:50:00]

I have to say, I found these comments shocking. Not that President Trump hasn't said bigoted things before. But to besmirch an entire community from one specific country in terms of their heritage, I found shocking. What did you think?

ARSHI SIDDIQUI, FOUNDER, BELLWETHER GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS: I mean, it seems like it's a pattern of conduct in terms of distraction and just really the public discourse has just taken is at an all-time low. So, I think it's been hard to watch particularly, I'm a -- I'm a daughter of an immigrant.

When you look at the immigrant community, I mean, there's not one day that goes by that I'm not grateful to be a part of the United States of America. And I think that's what most immigrants feel.

TAPPER: Today, President Trump issued a full and unconditional pardon to Texas Democratic Congressman Henry Cuellar for bribery charges brought against him in 2024.

House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries was asked about this pardon earlier today on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): Listen, the reality is this indictment was very thin to begin with, in my view. I don't know why the president decided to do this. I think the outcome was exactly the right outcome.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Do you support the pardon? You're -- you're a Democrat.

SIDDIQUI: Well, I would just say that innocent until proven guilty. So this was preemptive in many ways. And so, from that perspective, I actually thought -- the first thought that I had was that does this related to the Tennessee special election? And is this, you know, Henry Cuellar has been very known to be a pragmatist, bipartisan. He has worked with Republicans. So was -- if there was a political lens to this pardon.

TAPPER: So Cuellar, of course, you know, was asked if he has any plans to become a Republican. He does represent, a district on the border. He has been very critical of Joe Biden when it came to the immigration debate during the Biden years. Here's what Cuellar had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. HENRY CUELLAR (D-TX): Look, I'm a conservative Democrat, and I work across the lines, and I want to see the president succeed, President Trump. And it's good for the -- for the country. And I will work with anybody.

Now, we might have some differences, but if I can work with him, I will work with President Trump.

BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS HOST: But you're going to file as a Democrat in that district.

CUELLAR: That is correct.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So, Cuellar's 28th congressional district in Texas was part of the redistricting of the Texas map. Did President Trump basically hand Democrats a seat in Texas?

MORENO: Bipartisanship is a great thing, right? I mean, look, look, that Texas redistricting was mishandled from the get-go. And it shows that while something may be legal, it's why you don't bend the rules for short term political gain because its backfiring. And of course, it is in fact backfiring because now the courts are going to hold it up.

So, it's hard not to think of it as a cynical ploy. Big picture, I think it's time to basically repeal the pardon power. Every time we've talked about it in recent decades, it's been in a negative way. When the Constitution was enacted, federal prosecutions were very, very rare and different. So, I think this is a time -- let's take a step back here, look at the pardon power, and either fix it or repeal it altogether.

TAPPER: "The Atlantic" magazine's Tim Alberta just released a new profile on Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro, who's thinking who is said to be contemplating a 2020 presidential run. In the profile, they asked Shapiro about President Trump and how Trump fought his way back to the Oval Office. Shapiro says he dislikes the president. He doesn't agree with most of his policies.

But then he said this, "I do respect Trump's ability to communicate with these constituencies. Donald Trump has been a once in a generation political figure who has managed to connect on a deeper cultural level." That's kind of an interesting thing for a potential Democratic presidential candidate to say.

SIDDIQUI: I think it's fair. I mean, there -- Donald Trump is a political force. You look at what he's done in Washington, D.C. he has solidified control in a really significant way, whether its congress, whether it's the administration in terms of the agencies, all of it is all solidified under his -- under his control. So, I think it's a fair conversation. And I think Democrats would be ill advised to underestimate the president.

TAPPER: And one of the -- one of the quotes from the article that's getting the most attention is Tim Alberta, the reporter, actually is the one who told Shapiro what was in Kamala Harriss book about him, a whole bunch of allegations, and he wrote, he said to in a very rare, unguarded moment, Shapiro said, "She wrote that in her book? That's complete and utter bullshit. I can tell you that her accounts are just blatant lies."

What do you think?

MORENO: Look, as a Republican, I'm sitting back and watching one of the worst recent Democrat candidates in decades, attacking a potential one of the best potential Democrat candidates going forward. And so I'm sitting back and laughing at this whole thing. But, look, Shapiro is a guy that, as a Republican, I'm worried about him in the future. He's a guy that -- he's the kind of guy that can appeal in the swing states that Harris lost zero out of seven.

TAPPER: That's right. Thanks to both of you. Appreciate it.

We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:59:05]

TAPPER: Our last lead starts with what happened today at the White House. Surrounded by auto industry executives, President Trump announced his administration is rolling back Biden era fuel economy requirements. Instead of averaging, averaging over 50 miles a gallon by 2031, automakers can get by with 34.5 miles a gallon, a change that the president predicts will lower car prices by $1,000, although the impact on the environment, who knows?

We do have some very exciting, positive news to share with you before we go. CJ Rice welcomed a new son today. Theodore Rice, born just after 1:00 a.m. He weighs seven pounds, nine ounces.

Fans of THE LEAD will remember our coverage of CJ over the years, how he was wrongfully convicted, how he was freed 12 years later after my dad, Theodore Tapper, who made it his mission to get CJ, his former patient, out of prison.

He's out. And CJ has named his son after my dad, Theodore Jacob Rice.

Congratulations to CJ and his family.

You can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, threads, X, Bluesky, and on the TikTok @jaketapper. You can follow the show on Instagram at @TheLeadCNN. If you ever miss an episode of THE LEAD, you can watch the show on the CNN app.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now.