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The Lead with Jake Tapper
Trump Announces $12 Billion Aid Package For Farmers; KISS Band Members Recognized By President Trump; Mangione Back In Court For Hearing On Key Evidence; Supreme Court Appears Poised To Expand Trump's Firing Powers; Alina Habba Resigns As Acting U.S. Attorney For New Jersey. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired December 08, 2025 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.
This hour, $12 billion of relief heading to America's struggling farmers, was, you heard me right, billion with a B, well needed given all the hits farmers have taken, including because of Trump's tariffs. But not all farmers think this is a good idea. We'll explain how all of this will work and whether this could have a trickledown effect to the prices you pay.
Plus, he's one of the most famous faces in rock and roll history. You know him from the makeup and from the unique look. He just got a Kennedy Center honor and he is about to take an important fight to Capitol Hill. Gene Simmons from KISS is here in studio, ahead.
Also, President Trump's former personal lawyer, Alina Habba, resigning today as the acting U.S. attorney for New Jersey. The move comes after a court found that she was serving in that role unlawfully. But on her way out the door, Habba saying, do not mistake compliance or surrender. Okay. So, what comes next?
And accused killer Luigi Mangione back in a courtroom today as his lawyers try to get key pieces of evidence thrown out. See some of the items revealed in court that Mangione had on him when he was arrested.
The Lead tonight, President Trump announcing that $12 billion aid package for farmers impacted by his trade war. Most of the eight $11 billion will be. Given to crop farmers through one-time payments under the Farmer Bridge Assistance Program, the rest will go to farmers whose crops fall outside the umbrella of that program.
And according to Trump and his agriculture secretary, it's the Biden administration's fault that farmers are struggling, not the fault of Trump's tariffs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: This money would not be possible without tariffs. The tariffs are taking in, you know, hundreds of billions of dollars and we're giving a sum up to the farmers because they were mistreated by other countries for, I don't know, maybe right reasons, maybe wrong reasons.
We've taken in so much money with the tariffs now that it's such a pleasure. Without it, we wouldn't be able to help you. We're making our country -- we're the richest country in the world now.
BROOKE ROLLINS, AGRICULTURE SECRETARY: This country and our farm economy is facing a crisis that we inherited that most of these farmers have not seen in their lifetime. Profitability is down. It's just one crisis after another.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: CNN Chief White House Correspondent Kaitlan Collins joins us now. Kaitlan, are Trump's tariffs helping farmers? That's not my impression.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: No. And it's not directly paying for the bailout that's happening today either. That's coming from a Farmers Bridge Assistance Program that is run by the Agriculture Department that basically Congress appropriates every year.
But what the president was saying was that because they are making money from the tariffs, they being the United States federal government, that that is being used here to help bail out these farmers. But, actually, Jake, it's obviously ironic given the reason these farmers need this federal assistance from the government is because of the president's trade policies.
And so this is a tacit acknowledgement that that is what is happening here and that's what's playing out. It's that his policies are the reason some of those farmers who are at the table today do actually need this help. And this is, you know, something that the president did twice in his first term in office and is now doing again.
And I asked his labor secretary, Brooke Rollins, about this when we were at the White House. She was doing some media after if it is an acknowledgement that their policies are hurting farmers. And she basically rejected that. She echoed what the president had said earlier, blaming the Biden administration. But what the farmers have made clear is that they actually don't want government bailouts. They don't want the federal government having to help them. They would like to just be able to conduct trade, but, obviously, as a result of this, this is how it's played out.
The other part of this, and the president talked about today with this conversation with President Xi of China is they promised to buy all these soybeans and whatnot from the United States. They also did that and Trump round one and they didn't live up to their promises. They didn't even come close to it. And so I asked if they were concerned that could happen again, and Secretary Rollins said no. But that's a big question.
TAPPER: Yes. Tomorrow President Trump is heading to the great Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. He's going to focus on his economic record. What is the message going to be given the fact that, you know, prices continue to rise for the most part and he has been very dismissive of the affordability issue, calling it a Democratic scam or hoax?
COLLINS: Yes. Watching how he navigates that and threads that needle tomorrow is going to be pretty fascinating because he's vacillated between saying that, yes, it's something that Republicans should address. He talked about that the day after those special elections where Republicans were kicked by Democrats basically up and down the board in those elections.
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But then he is also said, you know, affordability doesn't mean anything. That word doesn't mean anything. It's created by Democrats. He's called it a scam and a con job. The question is, you know, voters and how they feel about it. They have made very clear and poll after poll they don't think it's a scam and they don't think it's a con job.
So, how does the president who leads the Republican Party and leads their messaging on this and actually has started facing backlash from some of his most loyal members recently as they're concerned about what this means for Republicans next year? How does he talk about that tomorrow in a way where does he acknowledge his own promises on the campaign trail and that that is still something that they're dealing with and trying to follow through on?
TAPPER: All right, Kaitlan Collins, thanks. And don't miss Kaitlan on her show. It's called The Source with Kaitlan Collins. It airs at 9:00 P.M. Tonight, she's going to be going live by Democratic Congressman Jamie Raskin of Maryland. That's tonight 9:00 Eastern only on CNN.
I want to turn to Republican Senator Roger Marshall of Kansas. Senator, thanks so much for joining us. So, Trump's farm aid package is likely to help the thousands of farmers in your state of Kansas. Will it be enough to offset their concerns about affordability and whatever damage might be happening because of the tariffs?
SEN. ROGER MARSHALL (R-KS): Well, Jake, we have a lot of work to do. These tariffs have created some short-term pain but we also think they're creating long-term gain. And by that, what I'm talking about is long-term trade agreements.
When Kansas farmers make money is when we turn corn into beef, when we turn soybeans into pork, when we turn sorghum into ethanol and sell those value added products. But this year, this particular year is really the end result of four years of poor policy under Joe Biden. We saw a record drop in net farm income. We saw our input prices go through the roof, whether it was the cost of fuel or fertilizer or interest rates. And Joe Biden did zero trade agreements.
So, is it enough? No. But these new trade agreements we're very, very optimistic about, especially trade agreements where we're going to be selling more beef and more ethanol.
TAPPER: What do you hear from other people in Kansas that are hurt by the tariffs that are not farmers? I mean, we've regularly talked to small business owners from coast to coast, including farmers, and, you know, they have affordability issues too, small business people not impacted who aren't part of the agriculture community. And as you know better than, there are more than 250,000 small businesses in Kansas, what about them?
MARSHALL: Right. I think what I hear from small businesses, first of all, is a lot of optimism, optimism around the new tax breaks that they're going to get on these pro-business tax policy from the one big, beautiful bill. But to your point there is still supply chain disruption that we've had four years of cumulative inflation, and, certainly, the tariffs have exacerbated that as well. What we're hoping though is that this is going to lead to more manufacturing jobs.
The bigger challenges in Kansas, to me are a lack of people for the jobs we have, that these jobs are moving back to America and we can't keep up, we can't find the people to do those jobs as well. But we certainly are all looking forward to some stabilization when it comes to these tariffs.
TAPPER: Let's turn to healthcare because the clock's ticking, obviously, to get some sort of healthcare plan before the Obamacare insurance premiums start skyrocketing for thousands of Americans with no help from the subsidies that are going to expire at the end of the year. In your state, about 200,000 Kansans are enrolled in the Obamacare marketplace. I understand you have introduced legislation today. Tell us about it. Does it have bipartisan support?
MARSHALL: Right. We're still looking for that bipartisan support. Number one is that it attacks the fraud in Obamacare. And all we're asking is for people to have to contribute $5 or $10 a month. And to be honest, we're not finding any Democrats that are willing to take that on. But beyond that, we want to take some of the enhanced tax credits and put it into patients' pocketbooks, make them customers again, let them have choices. We pair that with price tags, so we force healthcare providers to show you price tags and turn patients back into consumers again. So, that would be the main thing. Attack the fraud, stop giving the money, all the money to insurance companies. Instead, let's put it in healthcare savings account and let patients become consumers again.
TAPPER: The -- again, in 23 days, these Obamacare subsidies are going to expire, and yet today, Senate Majority Leader John Thune would not commit to a vote on a Republican healthcare proposal this week. Do you think that's a mistake by Leader Thune?
MARSHALL: I sure hope that we can find a package that we do agree upon. Our package actually extends these enhanced credits for one year and then starts this transition phase. Look, I'm sorry that my friends across the aisle chose to keep the government shut down for so long. It really stalled the opportunity to try and fix this. I don't know that we can fix it in December, but I'm still hopeful even in January for a bipartisan bill that would address the fraud, take money away from insurance companies and give it to patients and make them consumers again. TAPPER: We are starting to hear Republicans sounding the alarm over the Republican Party's affordability agenda and this need to find a healthcare compromise. Congressman Brian Fitzpatrick of Pennsylvania, he's one of the most at risk House Republicans in the midterm elections, take a listen to what he told CNN's Manu Raju.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. BRIAN FITZPATRICK (R-PA): If you don't have a better plan, then get on board with ours. But doing nothing is not an option.
Affordability is such a crisis in this country right now for everything, from childcare, to transportation, to housing, to food, to fuel and to healthcare. People are squeezed right now. And to add this on top of that, you know, a significant increase in their premiums is not an option.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: What's your response?
MARSHALL: Yes. Certainly, I'm concerned about the cost of living. I am concerned about the people being able to obtain their American dream. And ahead of that list is the cost of healthcare, the cost of education. We talked about how to address the cost of healthcare already, education, we want to booster our community colleges, our technical colleges, the cost of childcare, the cost of housing are out there as well that are big concerns. We've been doing what we can. We've been fighting this battle now for several years.
Again, inflation is cumulative. So, we've seen four years of the cost of healthcare and housing going up, and I think that you're going to see the Republican focused, very focused on how to bring the cost of living down.
TAPPER: Republican Senator Roger Marshall of Kansas, thank you so much. I appreciate it, sir.
He wants to rock and roll all night and party every day and make sure that artists are fairly compensated for their work. Rock and roll legend Gene Simmons of KISS joins me in studio next to explain the fight he's taking to Capitol Hill this week and what it was like to be a Kennedy Center honoree.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GENE SIMMONS, MUSICIAN: Especially since not a single cent of American taxpayer dollars going to the improvements here, shut the (BLEEP) up. What are you complaining about?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: In our Pop Culture Lead today, that is outspoken bassist known as the Demon, Gene Simmons, co-founder of the legendary rock band, KISS, defending some of President Trump's changes at the Kennedy Center at last night's 48th Honors event. Members of the rock band KISS were honored, as was disco icon Gloria Gaynor, actor Sylvester Stallone, Broadway actor Michael Crawford, and country artist George Strait. They were among the honorees.
And here now, with us in studio, very exciting to me personally, Kennedy Center Honoree and founding member of KISS Gene Simmons.
So, it's so good to have you here. Let me ask you guys were such rebels. You shocked all of pop culture and all of America in the 70s. Did you ever think that you would be given a Kennedy Center honor?
SIMMONS: Yes, and that and more. And when we're all children, we all have delusional notions about ourselves, why you were born and you knew that you were going to -- no, you had big dreams and part and parcel between the big dream and reality is just hard work. Hard work is easier. But to have this kind of -- you know, imagine this -- the will to reach for the stars and all that, I'm getting very emotional about this.
But in America it's big dreams. Reach for the stars. Did I ever imagine? You bet you. Climb Mount Olympus, you bet you. The air up there's thin, but I belong there.
TAPPER: So, anybody who, who grew up watching KISS knows, the four members, the names are Gene Simmons and Peter Criss and Paul Stanley and Ace Frehley. And, sadly, ace could not be there. He passed away earlier this year.
SIMMONS: Yes.
TAPPER: Did that make the event --
SIMMONS: Poignant?
TAPPER: Yes.
SIMMONS: Well, his daughter, Monique, and his wife, Jeanette, were there. And it's heartbreaking. Ace actually found out from the Kennedy Center that we were going to be honored, and he was so thrilled. We were four knuckleheads off the streets of New York with no resume, no experience, no manager. We didn't know. We were like kids playing in the mud.
Scientists call that a singularity. It just happened, the right thing at the right place at the right time. Boy, I'm kind of good looking up there. Look at that guy.
TAPPER: You look good.
SIMMONS: Yes. And I want to tell you that there, I can't explain it, but here we are and I get very emotional talking about this because I wasn't born in America. I know I don't look Swiss. My mother and I came here as legal immigrants because there is a difference. And we waited in line for years until we finally came in. And one of the first images I saw on television was a man, and he was flying through the air with no jets or anything and just a cape on his back.
And my mind was blown. What kind of country is this? And every -- I mean, I'm still amazed by the wonder that's America. And I get flack for that for people saying, well, you're doing sound bites. No. I deeply love, and I'm amazed by this country, no matter all the problems. There's always, you know, people always argue about stuff. But the wonder that is America is that I can be here first generation, legal, immigrant, and people who've been here for hundreds of years don't say, go to the back of the line. I can have access to any position in power I can have as long as I'm willing to work for it. That's the American dream.
TAPPER: I love it. I love it.
SIMMONS: By the way, I'm running for -- no.
TAPPER: You're not running, but you are going to testify at a Senate hearing tomorrow, we should note.
SIMMONS: At their behest.
TAPPER: Yes, in support of the American Music Fairness Act, which would require A.M./F.M. stations to pay royalties to artists, treat A.M./F.M. radio similar to digital streaming services and pay royalties when American artists are played on foreign radio.
This would be a shakeup of the music industry. Tell us why it's taken so long for these changes to even be discussed this week.
SIMMONS: It's not going to be a shakeup. We're going to just justify -- we're going to fix an injustice that has been ongoing in America, sadly, for generations, perhaps. Look, your favorite artist is Elvis, because you've got the doo And all that, and for about 70 years, Elvis' music has been played on radio. Everybody gets paid. The radio industry, which we love, we don't want to demonize them, made $14 billion with a B, this last year.
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How much did the Elvis estate get for all the times you heard, you ain't nothing but a -- how much did he make?
TAPPER: Really?
SIMMONS: Zero, nothing. That includes Whitney Houston and Celine Dion, Frank Sinatra, Bing Crosby, I'm dreaming of -- written by Irving Berlin, the Crosby estate got zero all those perhaps a million times that radio played that song.
And this is not just about the past, Jake. May I call you Jake?
TAPPER: Of course, please. SIMMONS: Because you know you're kind of a big deal. The new artists that are upcoming, your children, your children out there could be the next Elvis, and we're going to allow America to treat them worse than Russia does. Today in Russia, when a performer, a musical artist is playing, Russia pays them. In America, we don't. What are we? A communist country? Come on.
TAPPER: I wish you the best of luck. With that, I want to ask you, you talked about how you came to this country as an immigrant with your mother. You were born in Israel. Your mother was a Holocaust survivor. I saw a very moving --
SIMMONS: Holocaust survivors to smoke and mirrors -- my mother was a survivor of Nazi Germany's concentration camps. Holocaust survivor is one of those smoke and mirrors idea. She survived while millions and millions of people died. Not just 6 million Jews, 2 million Catholics. If you were gay, you were killed. If you were gypsies, you were killed. All undesirables were tortured and killed. And I don't want to tell you about the horrors that I later found out about.
TAPPER: Well, I saw a film of you meeting with a soldier who helped liberate your mother from that camp. And it was very, very moving. And I know that's an incredibly important issue for you. And I wondered what can we do to stop this rise of anti-Semitism that we're seeing on both the left and the right in this country? It's so horrifying.
SIMMONS: I think the best thing we can do is to talk to people such as yourself because cockroaches -- hatred, not just anti-Semitism, anti- Muslim thing, homophobia, hate comes in all kinds of -- but it's very similar to cockroaches. They thrive in darkness. When you see a cockroach in your kitchen, turn on the lights. They scurry back. But it it's our job to move the fridge out of the way. They like the darkness, expose them. When you see somebody espousing hatred of any kind, get your cell phone out, say, what's your name? Where do you live? Why do you saying these bad things? And put it on media. They're going to get fired out of their jobs. It's not a corporate entity that wants to be known for hiring people of hate.
So, you have the power. We have the freedom of the press. You can go out publicly gather, whereas, you know, in England, they had to have, public hall pubs, which is why they drink so much, because the landowners in feudal England, I used to be a sixth grade teacher, didn't want you gathering and talking. They have stuck you in there, gave you booze, talk all you want, get drunk. Over here, the right to free speech, gather, and the Constitution says we the people.
I want to get back to the American Fair Music Act that I'm going to make sure both Republicans and Democrats understand. They might not be aware of it. This is not a political issue. This is bipartisan.
TAPPER: Yes.
SIMMONS: Show me a politician who is not in favor of Americans working hard and getting paid for it. We're not as good as Russia in this area.
TAPPER: I hear you. I hear you.
You can check him out on tour in the New Year, Gene Simmons, the legend, the icon. He's still rock and rolling all night and partying every day, and he is now a Kennedy honoree. Thank you so much for the being here.
SIMMONS: By the way, have you noticed how much better looking I am in real life?
TAPPER: Without the makeup.
SIMMONS: Yes.
TAPPER: I thought the makeup was to hide something, but no.
SIMMONS: I'm kind of a big deal.
TAPPER: You're a big deal.
SIMMONS: Yes.
TAPPER: You're a big deal. Thanks so much for being here.
SIMMONS: It was a pleasure to see me.
TAPPER: It was.
Accused murderer Luigi Mangione returned to a New York court today. What we learned from newly shown video of his arrest inside that McDonald's, that's next.
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TAPPER: In our Law and Justice Lead, accused killer Luigi Mangione was back into New York Court today as his lawyers are trying to get this key evidence thrown out in his murder case. Police body camera footage played inside the courtroom showed officers debating if they needed a search warrant to look inside Mangione's backpack during his arrest.
Let's bring in CNN's Kara Scannell. Kara, how does that video play into both sides arguments today?
KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, it is a key piece of evidence as the defense team wants to try to get the contents of the backpack thrown out of this case. And on the video, you know, the officers are in the McDonald's in Altoona, Mangione has been arrested and taken to the station, and they're discussing the search of this backpack.
Two officers were heard on the video saying that they don't need to search it because it says search and incident arrest, which Altoona Police policy says that when someone is arrested, their person can be searched and their bags can be searched. There is another officer on the video who says that to play it safe that they should maybe get a search warrant.
Now, the police officer who actually conducted the search was on the witness stand today. She said that she has never gotten a search warrant when she has searched someone's property after an arrest, and she said that it was also something that had triggered her concerns in this moment was because they had asked Mangione if there was anything to be concerned about in the bag, she said he didn't answer and that kind of heightened her concerns that maybe there could be something dangerous. So, she testified she was looking to see if there was a bomb or any other device like that.
Now, in cross-examination, Mangione's lawyers were saying, you are really looking here to just try to find anything, something to try to tie him to the shooting in New York City.
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Now, she said that wasn't what she was doing, that she was doing things as she always does. But it is key here because his lawyers want this evidence out. What was recovered in that backpack was the handgun, a silencer, and a notebook with handwriting that prosecutors say was Mangione's words, and they say that this provided the motive for the shooting because he talked about the healthcare industry and wanting to make a statement there. This is something that the judge will decide after this hearing is completed. We are now in the second week of this and more testimony is expected tomorrow. Jake?
TAPPER: All right. Kara Scannell, thank you so much. I appreciate it.
She was Trump's former personal attorney, handpicked to be the U.S. attorney in New Jersey. Why Alina Habba is now calling it quits, resigning from her post.
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TAPPER: In our World Lead, President Trump repeatedly claims that he deserves credit for ending eight year -- eight wars during his first year in office, eight wars.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I can tell you I did settle eight wars and we have a ninth coming, but -- which nobody's ever done before.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Perhaps that's why FIFA, the sports governing body that organizes global soccer events, including the World Cup, created for President Trump and presented him with the FIFA Peace Prize.
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This was last week after Trump did not get the Nobel Peace Prize in October, seemingly in attempt by FIFA to flatter and curry favor with Trump. But let us dive further into President Trump's claim that he's already ended eight wars and is working on a ninth. Let's take a look as to the facts here.
These are the eight wars that Trump claimed to have ended during his address to the United Nations this fall. Let's take a look at each one of these. Start with two that are in the news today because the conflicts are continuing, number one, Cambodia and Thailand. This was a five-day armed conflict that ended with a ceasefire agreement in July. Thai and Cambodian leaders released a joint statement crediting Trump for his role in stopping the conflict. But today, Thailand launched airstrikes against Cambodia. Thailand's army says the strikes were in retaliation for an attack that killed a Thai soldier.
The White House just responded a short while ago saying it expects both governments to fully honor their commitments to end the fighting.
Number two, the Democratic Republic of Congo and Rwanda on Thursday, at the newly crisis in Donald J. Trump United States Institute of Peace, the president participated in a signing ceremony for a peace agreement with the leaders, the presidents of both countries. That war has continued, however, in part because Thursday's deal was never assigned by the leading rebel coalition that's actually doing most of the fighting. And just today, a bomb explosion killed more than 30 people in Eastern Congo.
War Number three, Ethiopia and Egypt, this is not actually a war. It's a long running diplomatic dispute about a major Ethiopian dam project on the Nile. The dispute there remains unresolved. Tensions over the dam have never reached the point of actual warfare.
War Number four, Serbia and Kosovo, this is another supposed war that didn't actually occur during Trump's presidency. CNN's fact checker Daniel Dale notes, President Trump has sometimes claimed to have prevented the eruption of a new war between the countries while providing a few details about what he means exactly. But that is different than settling an actual war, of course.
Number five, Israel and Hamas, the situation in Gaza right now is tenuous. Attacks there have continued since the October ceasefire deal. Phase two of that agreement has yet to be implemented. But, absolutely, the president and his team should be praised for the ceasefire, and we all hope it does become a real peace.
War number six, Israel and Iran. This too was a truly hot war, both countries launching missiles against each other for 12 days this June. President Trump ordered U.S. airstrikes against three Iranian nuclear facilities, but Trump did also play an important role here, according to many observers, including Evelyn Farkas, who served as a deputy assistant secretary of defense during the Obama administration, who says Trump does deserve credit for the end of hostilities between those two countries.
Number seven, India and Pakistan, this conflict heated up after a terrorist attack in April. It led to days of drone and missile strikes. The Indian government has denied that the U.S. played a role in negotiating to ceasefire. The Pakistani government said it would nominate Trump for the Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts.
Lastly, of course, number eight, Armenia and Azerbaijan. It's a conflict that goes back decades. In August, the leaders of Armenia and Azerbaijan met at the White House with President Trump. They signed a declaration to seek peace, but importantly, a final peace agreement has yet to happen.
So, as to the claim from President Trump, that he's ended eight wars, as you may have guessed, it's a little bit more complicated than that.
Let's discuss with Rebeccah Heinrichs, a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute, along with CNN Global Affairs Analyst Brett McGurk, who have done the National Security Council during several administrations including Biden.
So, Brett, first of all, let me just say blessed are the peacemakers. Any effort to bring peace is great. None of the us want these wars to continue with. The president plays a part in ending the conflict. He should be given credit, but as we just went through, he hasn't really ended eight wars.
BRETT MCGURK, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, he -- I mean, ceasefires, or at least if people are shooting at each other, you want them to stop, that's good, get a ceasefire. But actually ending a war, such as Thailand and Cambodia, that goes back to a border dispute like over a hundred years ago. So, it takes follow-up to actually have a resolution to a conflict. I think Gaza, we've talked about this, Jake. We give high marks there. The Israel-Iran situation's not -- those two countries are still very much in a state of war, maybe not a hot conflict, I suspect will flare up again.
Bottom line diplomacy is constant, constant, constant effort. It doesn't just -- there's not like an end point. So, I hope there's follow through here. I would give President Trump an incomplete. You got to have follow up and try to resolve these things.
I would also say as America pulls back from the world, which is kind of a driving impulse of his foreign policy. I think you will see more small war wars flare up over the coming years or the coming decades. That's why I think the overall thrust of the strategy, America's engagement in the world is so important to try to maintain stability.
TAPPER: What do you think, Rebeccah, about the fact that the Trump administration does seem to be talking more about focusing only on our hemisphere, what's going on in South America, Central America, et cetera, and as it's being interpreted, the new national security statement, letting the rest of the world fend for itself, which a lot of people are worried about?
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Like, well, what does that mean in terms of Russia and China?
REBECCAH HEINRICHS, SENIOR FELLOW, HUDSON INSTITUTE: Right. We should be worried about it, because, as Brett said, the successes that President Trump has had, and I do give him high marks for helping to get ceasefires ending these conflicts, or at least putting them in a much better position than they otherwise would've been.
TAPPER: Sure, of course.
HEINRICHS: Especially on Gaza and Iran and Israel.
TAPPER: Yes.
HEINRICHS: But all of that was because of the economic, military power of the United States and the diplomatic heft that we have. And so the power of the American president is still massive. And so President Trump has demonstrated, look, we can take care of problems in our hemisphere, problems at our border, and have strong global engagement to very good effect for the American people. And President Trump's own policies have shown that.
TAPPER: So, let's talk about the ninth war that President Trump says he's going to end, that's Russia and Ukraine. Obviously, the White House -- well, I don't know who authored this peace proposal, 21 points or whatever, but it seems it's debated, but there is this White House peace proposal out there, and here's what President Trump said last night about where that stands.
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TRUMP: So, we've been speaking to President Putin and we've been speaking to Ukrainian leaders, including Zelenskyy, President Zelenskyy, and I have to say that I'm a little bit disappointed that President Zelenskyy hasn't yet read the proposal. That was as of a few hours ago. His people love it, but he hasn't.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: He does seem to be putting more pressure on Zelenskyy in Ukraine than Putin and Russia. What do you think?
HEINRICHS: No, this is a mistake. So, my biggest problem with the Witkoff proposal to the Ukrainians is that it won't work. Because the only way you're going to get an end to this conflict is if you put the pressure on the Russians. The Russians have refused to cooperate with President Trump, refused all the ceasefires. Ukraine has been cooperating with the Trump administration and with Europeans to have a ceasefire.
And so we know from the Obama administration, accommodating the Russians doesn't work. We know that from the Russia reset. And so the only thing that President Trump can do now is turn the screws on the Russians with the Europeans economically, and make sure that the Ukrainians continue to have the weapons that they need. Then you can pressure the Russians to have an incentive.
So, President Trump continues to put pressure on Ukraine, but, again, Zelenskyy has made it clear he can't give up territory, especially in Donetsk. That's a military-fortified area. It would mean the Russians can regroup and continue their war effort against Ukraine. So, Zelenskyy can't concede territory that the Russians have not taken by force. TAPPER: And, Brett, meanwhile, Zelenskyy is dealing with his corruption scandal back home. It's already ensnared two of his ministers, his chief of staff. They've been forced to resign. Zelenskyy himself has not been directly implicated in the corruption scandal. But this is coming at this very difficult time for Ukraine. He was in London earlier today, Zelenskyy meeting with the leaders of the U.K., France, and Germany. How does this corruption scandal impact his ability to bring about a piece and to continue to rally Keir Starmer and the other European leaders to support him?
MCGURK: Well, the risk is it gives an excuse to those who might want to pull back from Ukraine to say, look at the corruption there, especially a corruption scandal that has to do with protecting the civilian infrastructure to keep the heat on in the winter. It's a real problem. So, unless he has to take care of it, he's taking some steps to take care of it. One of his most senior advisers is under investigation, has been jettisoned aside.
But, look, bottom line I agree with Rebeccah. Frederick the Great said diplomacy without power is like music without instruments and diplomacy requires leverage at your back. I think we have a very strong hand against the Russians. President Trump has talked about oil and gas sanctions. Those sanctions are getting into place. The Russians are taking massive losses. There's a time and place for diplomacy to try to bring something to result. It might be here to support the Ukrainians through this very difficult winter, and in the spring make another run at peace. I think right now the pieces are not set up for that deal.
TAPPER: Brett McGurk, Rebeccah Heinrichs, always great having both of you here. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
The U.S. Supreme Court today signaling it's poised to get President Trump even more control of the government. Why the liberal justices are warning that that decision could, quote, destroy the structure of government.
Stay with us.
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[18:47:46]
TAPPER: We're back with our law and justice lead.
The Supreme Court today appears poised to hand President Trump more power to fire independent government officials in arguments over a case that centers on President Trump's attempt to fire a member of the FTC or Federal Trade Commission. The court, with its 6-3 conservative majority, seemed quite skeptical by their questions about whether Congress should be able to limit the president's firing power.
Shermichael Singleton is back with us. Tom Dupree, as well.
And, Tom, can you explain the wider reaching implications of what this decision could mean for independent agencies? Let's say the Federal Reserve, for example?
TOM DUPREE, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: Sure. Well, today's -- the case was argued today. The decisions -- the decision will be extremely significant whichever way the court goes just for the structure of our government, what the court was deciding is basically whether or not agencies can be truly independent in our constitutional system by independent. What the court is talking about is whether the heads of these agencies can be insulated from presidential removal, meaning the president can't fire them for any old reason.
I do think that today's decision may be a little more narrowly tailored than a lot of us anticipated coming in. When the day began, we thought there's the possibility that they would simply wipe out the concept of independent agencies, but it does not seem as though they're going to be a majority of justices supporting that.
I do think it is likely they are going to say that you can't place restrictions on the president's ability to fire the head of the FTC, the Federal Trade Commission, which was the agency debating, debated today. But I don't think there's a majority of the justices who are poised to extend that reasoning, to say that you can't fire or that you can insulate the head of the Federal Reserve from termination.
TAPPER: So, at one point, Justice Samuel Alito asked the Trump administration attorney, John Sauer, sarcastically, if the entire structure of the government would fall if the court rules in Trump's favor, and Sauer said the sky will not fall, the entire government will move toward accountability to the people.
Shermichael, do you think its accountability to the people if Trump can fire independent, quote/unquote?
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think many conservatives would say yes. And Tom and I were discussing this before going live here, that there is a philosophical and even a legal argument made on the conservative side that to have one, a more powerful executive is in the interest of the people.
[18:50:02]
But two, it's necessary in order to avoid gridlock, in order to avoid a bureaucrats who may not want to lead an agency under the direction of the president's ethos, whatever that ethos may be. And so, I'm very fascinated by this. But in terms of accountability as a conservative, I certainly don't want to expand executive power too much. I'm very cautious of that, naturally speaking, but I am open to entertaining the argument of having more power to the executive to make more direct changes at some of these bureaucracies. I think it's important.
TAPPER: Alina Habba, President Trump's former personal attorney, resigned today. She was the acting U.S. attorney for New Jersey. This is after an appeals court found that she was serving unlawfully.
So, Shermichael, this is not the first time a Trump lawyer has been found to have serving unlawfully. It has to do with a recess appointment, whether or not you -- if you don't nominate somebody and they have them voted on in the Senate, you can do a recess appointment. You can only do that for --
SINGLETON: So long.
TAPPER: So long, and you can't redo them after -- after that first one expires.
SINGLETON: Yeah. There's a normal process. I mean, I supported the president, nominated her for a temporary time. I think she did the right thing by respecting the ruling of the judge. I think going forward, though, Senate needs to make sure that the president has the capability of appointing people for long term positions.
TAPPER: Why not nominate her? Why not send her to the Senate?
SINGLETON: Well, there may be some concern that maybe she couldn't get confirmed by all Republicans in the Senate.
TAPPER: Republicans control the Senate.
SINGLETON: And they do control the Senate. That said, though, I think it's in the interest of the country to have people who are there for a duration of time versus 60, 90 days. That's not enough time to really do anything. And I think if you're appointing a top prosecutor to go after criminals, you want the people in those states to know that someone's going to be there long term to go over very complicated crimes or alleged crimes 90 days, a couple of months. That's nowhere near enough time.
TAPPER: Tom, I mean, one of the issues here is I think the Trump administration knows the rules, and they just keep breaking them. I mean, first of all, they replaced an acting U.S. attorney, Erik Siebert of the Eastern District of Virginia. Siebert, probably, by the way, could have been confirmed, but they replaced him because he wasn't going to indict Comey, and he replaced him with another acting U.S. attorney. And you're not allowed to do that either.
DUPREE: Look, the Trump administration has made clear that this Justice Department is going to be run in a very different manner than essentially all other prior Justice Departments, in the sense that the president in this administration has a far greater say in some would say, an actual direction of specific prosecutions. He's being in -- the president is involving himself in the day to day charging decisions, the decisions whom to indict in a way that no president has ever before. And I think one consequence of this is that if they have someone currently in those chief prosecutorial positions who declines to carry out the presidents wishes, they want to put someone in there who will do it.
And if that means kind of skirting close to the line of the rules that govern who can be appointed, so be it. I think their view is, look, we're going to do what we want to do. We're going to see how it plays out. We're going to fight it in court. And if at the end of the day, it turns out the appointment was unlawful, we'll get someone else in there who will do what we want. SINGLETON: But, Jake, if I could -- Tom, even with those temporary
appointments, though, I mean, how much realistically could a temporary appointment accomplish on a limited basis?
DUPREE: Well, it makes it tough if you actually have the validation, as you're saying, of Senate confirmation, you just act with greater authority. You know that you're in a role where you've been approved to serve in that role by the United States Senate in a way that someone who's just a temporary signee simply doesn't possess.
TAPPER: So the attorney general, Pam Bondi, and the deputy attorney general, Todd Blanche, released a statement denouncing the federal judges in Alexandria, Virginia, for what they call an unconscionable campaign of bias and hostility against U.S. Attorney Lindsey Halligan and her line assistant U.S. attorneys.
We should note. She's not the U.S. attorney. She's an acting U.S. attorney. This comes again after Halligan, who's another former Trump attorney, was found to be serving unlawfully in the eastern district of Virginia because she has not been Senate confirmed. And you're not allowed to replace one acting U.S. attorney with another acting U.S. attorney.
What do you make of the involvement of Blanche and Bondi? And also, they're calling her a U.S. attorney when she's not. She's an acting U.S. attorney.
DUPREE: Yeah. Look, I have a number of concerns. One concern is just kind of the short term. The tactical concern is if you're a prosecutor in the Justice Department, you don't want to be personally attacking the judges who are going to be deciding your cases. Okay? That's number one.
Number two is when you attack the judges. It just to my mind, I think it just undercuts Americans' faith in the rule of law and the judiciary. If you have very senior Justice Department officials suggesting that these judges are acting improperly or they're biased or they're corrupt or things like that.
I think it is 100 percent fair game to criticize the rulings of the judges, disagree with them. Absolutely. That's fair game. But to go after the judges? Personally, I don't like that.
TAPPER: Unwise, at the very least.
Tom Dupree Shermichael Singleton, thanks to both of you. Really appreciate it.
Another problem for one of the most iconic museums in the world, we're going to explain what happened at the Louvre just weeks after that brazen jewel heist. Stay with us.
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[18:58:56] TAPPER: Our last leads today starts with the world lead aftershocks all day after a powerful 7.5 earthquake today right off the coast of Japan, it triggered a two foot tsunami. Officials report more than 20 injuries. The CNN team in Tokyo said tremors lasted more than 30 seconds. Officials are assessing damage, but say this was nothing like the 2011 quake that killed some 22,000 people and triggered a nuclear disaster.
Also in our world lead, 2025 not the best year for the Louvre Museum. After a brazen heist in October, officials now say a water leak in November damaged more than 300 books. What caused the leak? An error. Someone opened a valve from a defunct plumbing system set to be replaced in 2026. Officials say the books are not permanently damaged and will be returned once dried and repaired.
In our national lead, Santa Claus is coming to town in an osprey, according to first lady Melania Trump. It's faster than his sleigh. The pair dashed through the air to the U.S. Marine Corps base in Quantico, Virginia, for a Toys for Tots holiday drive, where they packed up Christmas toys for children in need.
You can follow me on Facebook Instagram, Threads, Bluesky, X and on TikTok @jaketapper. You can follow the show on X and Instagram @TheLeadCNN. If you ever miss an episode of THE LEAD, you can watch the show on the CNN app.
"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now. See you tomorrow.
