Return to Transcripts main page
The Lead with Jake Tapper
Trump: U.S. Seized Oil Tanker Off Coast Of Venezuela; Rep. John Rose (R-TN), Is Interviewed About Trump Meanders Off Script In Economic Message To Americans; Australia Bans Social Media For Children Under 16; Trump's Economy Speech "Weaves" Around Americans' Pain On Prices. Aired 5-6p ET
Aired December 10, 2025 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: All right. Thanks very much to all of you for watching. Thanks to my panel as well. Jake Tapper is standing by for "The Lead." Hi, Jake.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Hey, Kasie. Thanks so much. We'll see you in "The Arena" tomorrow.
HUNT: See you soon.
[17:00:35]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to The Lead. I am Jake Tapper. We're going to start today in our politics lead because President Trump, pressed by advisers to convince Americans he's focused on the affordability crisis, went to Mount Pocono, Pennsylvania yesterday. But instead of reassuring supporters struggling because of the continued rise of prices, he veered wildly off topic, instead offering a potpourri of grievances and anti-immigrant rhetoric. But we are going to start today talking instead about the fact that President Trump has talked about how the U.S. has seized control of an oil tanker.
And that oil tanker is a breaking news story, rather significant news. Take a listen to President Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: As you probably know, we've just seized On the coast of Venezuela. Large tanker, very large. Largest one ever seized, Actually.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: This is a substantial escalation in the U.S. conflict against Venezuela, which has so far been pretty much a pressure campaign and then a military campaign against Venezuelan drug boats, alleged drug boats. The president saying the tanker was seized for very good reason. We don't know more than that as of right now. A person familiar with the matter tell CNN that the tanker was heading to Cuba. This move comes after months of this, as we mentioned, 23, at least 23 strikes, U.S. strikes, on suspected drug boats or what President Trump calls narco terrorists, killing some 87 people.
President Trump has repeatedly said that a land strike on Venezuela could come soon.
CNN's Kristen Holmes is at the White House. She was with the president just moments ago pressing him about this tank. Not seem to offer many details about what went down or why. What did he say to you when you asked about it?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it was unclear what he knew, what he didn't know. He said that we were going to be learning more details soon. We still haven't gotten any of that information. There was a number of us that tried to press him on various aspects of this, which he ignored. Of course, the main questions are why this tanker?
Why now? Is this part of this pressure campaign against (inaudible)? Certainly it seems like it is. Who owns this tanker and where was this tanker going? And we try to get some of the answers during this question and answer session with the president. Here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: The oil tanker --
TRUMP: Can you get that information later?
HOLMES: OK. And have you spoken to Maduro since your last conversation?
TRUMP: No.
HOLMES: Been one conversation?
TRUMP: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Now, I was told that in that first conversation that Trump offered somewhat of an ultimatum to Maduro saying it was his best interest to get out of the country. No word if this was part of that ultimatum, what I had been told by a White House official, it was more about how he was going to continue to blow boats up off the coast of Venezuela. But it is possible that this was something that he had issued within that ultimatum. Now, another question President Trump was asked was what happens to the oil on that tanker? He said, I guess we keep it.
I guess the United States gets to keep it. It sounded as though that was answer that he was just saying off the cuff. We obviously would have a lot of questions about that as well. One of the things to keep in mind is a majority of Venezuela's oil goes to China. And President Trump has tried whatever which way he can to put the pressure not just on Maduro, but on countries that support Maduro, on leaders that support Maduro as he is trying to clear --
TAPPER: All right, Kristen Holmes, thanks so much.
Let's bring in CNN National Security Analyst Beth Sanner.
Beth, first of all, a lot of people don't understand the basic idea of what's going on here. Nicolas Maduro, who is in charge of Venezuela, president of Venezuela, he's there because of fraud. Like, he should not be the leader --
BETH SANNER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes.
TAPPER: -- of Venezuela. He --
SANNER: Right. Lost the election.
TAPPER: He lost the election and he kept power instead. President Trump is not. My larger point is that President Trump is -- it's not wild for people in the west to think Maduro is not there legitimately.
SANNER: Right.
TAPPER: And there has been this pressure campaign from President Trump for him to step down. Seizing an oil tanker --
SANNER: Yes.
TAPPER: -- that's a much bigger deal and a much bigger than these narco terrorist boats, as the president calls them, people shooting them, seizing a tanker, how could this escalate the conflict with Venezuela?
SANNER: Well, you know, we've had sanctions on Venezuelan oil for -- since the first Trump administration. And --
[17:05:01]
TAPPER: And Biden kept them.
SANNER: Kept them.
TAPPER: Yes.
SANNER: So to me, this is absolutely normal. I mean --
TAPPER: Seizing an oil tanker? SANNER: Yes. Yes. We've been seizing Iranian oil tankers in the past.
We also, according to the law that I've read, we can -- that oil is up forfeiture. So we could keep that.
We've kept Iranian oil in the past. So I actually think that this is less controversial in terms of law and sanctions and what has been, you know, disputed or not disputed. Like, I think this is actually a pretty, you know, check the box case.
Now, you know, what will this mean in terms of escalation? You know, what is he going to do? What is Maduro going to do? Is he going to step aside because we're sanctioning this oil? I mean, you know, we pick up this oil tanker, it's one oil tanker, probably not.
TAPPER: And it's unlikely that he would then take an escalatory measure --
SANNER: Yes.
TAPPER: -- when it comes to the Venezuelan military against the U.S. military.
SANNER: Exactly. So, I mean, but I think it's a -- I think it's a big deal and I think it's a good thing, actually, because I think squeezing Maduro, most people don't have any problem with that.
TAPPER: Right.
SANNER: Maduro is a bad leader, a horrible leader who tortures people, puts them in prison. An opposition leader just died in jail last week. Bad person.
TAPPER: Yes.
SANNER: Right?
TAPPER: And an illegitimate leader also.
SANNER: Illegitimate.
TAPPER: So the president said that the oil tanker was seized for, quote, "a very good reason," but he didn't elaborate as --
SANNER: Right.
TAPPER: -- to what that reason is.
SANNER: But major sanction.
TAPPER: But you -- but you tell me what you think that very good reason is.
SANNER: Yes.
TAPPER: That it is --
SANNER: Because I think that this particular tanker was probably on a sanctions list because most of these ghost ships are, many of them -- TAPPER: So the sanctions are not just vaguely about --
SANNER: No.
TAPPER: -- no Venezuelan oil. It's this ship, this ship, this ship.
SANNER: There's a combination. So there are --
TAPPER: OK.
SANNER: -- on ships, and most of this ghost fleet is actually, it's shared among all these different countries, Iranian, Russian, Venezuelan. And this ship is probably on a list that's sanctioned. Plus, we also have sanctions against PDVSI, which is the state oil company, and any of their assets. So if it's owned by them or any associate, it would also be in a sanction.
TAPPER: I'm told the Attorney General Pam Bondi has posted video of the seizure, if we want to post that. And I don't know, Beth, how much you're familiar with this kind of military activity.
SANNER: Yes. So it was done by the Coast Guard and in with Navy as backup. So this is a very, very traditional way.
TAPPER: Those are -- those are Coast Guard personnel? SANNER: They should be Coast Guard personnel. But it was also said,
backed up by the military. So maybe there was a Coast Guard vessel and maybe that helicopter would be more likely to be a military, that these would be Navy or Marines that would be coming in --
TAPPER: OK.
SANNER: -- and finishing it up. You know, in the past everybody has wanted to pick up these kinds of tankers, but we haven't had the assets in the region to do it. Not enough Coast Guard vessels to actually complete this mission.
TAPPER: Right. But Trump and -- the Trump-Vance administration have been redirecting resources --
SANNER: We now have --
TAPPER: -- to this hemisphere. Yes.
SANNER: Twenty percent of our deployed naval vessels are in this very small body of water. So if they're going to be doing anything, I'd say this is a lot less controversial than blowing up front runners.
TAPPER: Oh, wow. Interesting. And on that note, because we're talking about -- the implicit observation you're making is about the legality of these operations. On that note, we're told that these Coast Guard personnel and whatever else there were there in terms of military, they were executing a search warrant on this oil tanker. So what were they looking for?
Contraband or oil?
SANNER: They would be looking for ownership. You know, first, like who is this? Right? You're not showing a flag, you know, like what exactly is going on here? And then they're looking at what are you carrying?
TAPPER: So an oil tanker has to have the flag of the country that it's from? SANNER: Any tanker is supposed to have a flag. This, what we call this ghost fleet are kind of -- are tankers that do not have proper registration and sometimes not any registration.
TAPPER: And that's to avoid sanctions? To avoid this exact --
SANNER: Yes.
TAPPER: -- kind of activity from happening.
SANNER: It is to avoid sanctions. And these are bad because a lot of these kinds of ships are not well maintained. And they -- these are the ones that have oil spills and all the rest. Like this kind of ghost fleet, this is what people have been arguing that the administration needs to crack down on the Russian ghost fleet, right? On these tankers that are taking Russian oil to India and China and all the rest.
TAPPER: Who did the Venezuelans sell their oil to?
SANNER: Mainly to China. But a lot of times they do it on these Iranian backed vessels. And sometimes like this one, they said they're taking it to Cuba. Some of that oil might be used for domestic consumption, but a lot of times the Cubans will then resell that to an Asian broker. They'll take it into China where not a big national Chinese refinery will take it but what they call these teapot refineries, which are these small independent kind of wildcat refineries that are on the coast there of China.
[17:10:15]
And they will take these and then refine it and use it.
TAPPER: One last question, Beth, before I bid you adieu. The idea of these sanctions. So Maduro seizes power illegitimately or maintains power illegitimately, then the Trump administration in the first term and then the Biden administration continues with sanctions. This is a way for the administration to pressure the Venezuelan government to get rid of Maduro because of what he did. They're hoping for some sort of military coup or some sort of military action to get rid of Maduro to bring democracy back to Venezuela?
SANNER: That's exactly right. So I think that what we are seeing, you know, like we've been seeing this gunboat diplomacy, right, flying F- 18s and, you know, all of this kind of saber rattling, trying to scare the Venezuelans. This is another pressure campaign, part of this pressure campaign.
TAPPER: Thank you so much for your insights. Really appreciate it. Beth Sanner, thank you so much.
Much more reaction ahead to the breaking news. President Trump confirming that the U.S. military and the Coast Guard seized an oil tanker off the coast of Venezuela. We're going to ask a House Republican about this as well as Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, who's also coming up. And the breaking money news today, Wall Street closing strong after the Federal Reserve cut interest rates for the third straight time. Fed Chair Jerome Powell suggests this will be the last rate cut for a bit. Much more ahead. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:15:26]
TAPPER: And our politics lead today, President Trump is being pressed by his advisors to try to convince the American people that he is focused, laser like, on the affordability crisis. He went to Mount Pocono, Pennsylvania yesterday to make that case. He hasn't done this kind of rally thing in a bit and it's worth taking a moment to listen to what he had to say because frankly, control of Congress hangs in the balance. The reviews from even conservative observers are in and they're not good. Instead of reassuring supporters struggling because of the continued rise in prices, inflation in September was at 3 percent.
That's the same level as it was when Trump took office. The president veered wildly off topic. He offered instead a potpourri of grievances and nativist, anti-immigrant rhetoric. It's a style he's quite proud of.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP; I love the weave. The weave. You know what the weave is? Go here, bing, bing, bing, bing. You always have to get back to the right location, but otherwise they'll criticize you for straying from the speech.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: OK, I guess that's one way to look at it. Congressional Republicans, we should note, are hoping for the White House and the president to deliver a consistent, reassuring message on the big issue of affordability. It's one that no doubt was prepared for President Trump on that teleprompter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: By the way, have I read what's on the teleprompter, you'd all be falling asleep right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: The president is out on the stump because his approval numbers are plunging and House Republicans are quite terrified about the midterm elections next year. The president's chief of staff, Susie Wiles, says the solution is to put Trump on the ballot, figuratively, have the midterms be a referendum on President Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP; Do you know Susie Trump? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
TRUMP: Sometimes referred to as Susie Wiles, Susie Trump.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
TRUMP: She's the great chief of staff at the -- they don't use the word chief of staff anymore because of the Indians got extremely upset. But now the Indians actually want their name used, which is true. They never didn't want it used. But the chief of staff and she's fantastic. She said, we have to start campaigning, sir.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Yes, I'm not certain that message is going to help Republicans. Based on the content of his Pocono speech, Republicans are still worried. To say nothing of the Truth Social post the president posted after in which he said, quote, "The New York Times and some others like to pretend that I am slowing up and maybe not as sharp as I once was or am in poor physical health. After all of the work I have done with medical exams, cognitive exams and everything else, I actually believe it's seditious, perhaps even treasonous, for the New York Times and others to consistently do fake reports in order to libel and demean the president of the United States. They are true enemies of the people and we should do something about it.
I don't know exactly what he thinks should be done about it, and that's just part of the Truth Social Post. We should note reporting accurately on the President's quite obvious aging is neither seditious nor treasonous.
This was a post on Truth Social about which former Republican Congressman Justin Amash said, quote, "If anyone else wrote something like this, it would be universally acknowledged that the person is mentally unstable."
Not that the 95 minute speech that preceded the Truth Social Post was any more reassure Republicans who need a message on affordability given continue frankly, caused by the president's deeply unpopular tariffs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You know tariffs are bringing us hundreds of billions of dollars.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Those hundreds of billions of dollars are being paid by American companies and you American consumers. They're not being paid by foreign governments. They're not being paid by foreign consumers. Sixty-three percent of registered voters disapprove of the President's tariffs, according to a November Fox News poll. But here's how Trump brushes that objection off.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: The smart people understand it. Other people are starting to learn, but the smart people really understand it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: So if you're one of the 63 percent of the American people who oppose the tariffs, apparently you are just not smart enough to understand it. It took more than 13 minutes last night before the president actually started talking about, (inaudible).
[17:20:01]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You're getting lower prices, bigger inflation and you're getting much higher wages. I said it the other day, you know. And, oh, he doesn't realize prices are high. Prices are coming down very substantially. But they have a new word.
You know, they always have a hoax. The new word is affordability. So they look at the camera and they say, this election is all about affordability. Now they never talk about it. They never talk thank you very much.
They say I'm not allowed to run. I don't know what the hell that's all about, but that's OK. He said four more years.
You see the new hat? We have four more years, 2028. We have all sorts of hats.
MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: (Chanting) More four years. More four years. More four years. More four years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Again, not a very cogent message on affordability. And just saying that prices are going down and things are getting more affordable, that doesn't actually make them more -- tried to blame President Biden for the current economic conditions. Blaming Biden, we should note it's not working. Registered voters in that same Fox poll gave Trump the responsibility for the economy over Biden, 62 percent Trump, 32 percent Biden. Here's how Trump framed it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We inherited the worst inflation in the history of -- and we're bringing them down rapidly. Their entire agenda is about robbing work, foreign officials -- foreign migrants and illegal aliens. You can't do it. Look, we all have a heart.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Now, inflation under President Biden was a big problem. It peaked in June 2022 at 9.1 percent. But what President Trump inherited from Biden is not 9.1 percent inflation. What he inherited is the same inflation rate today as it was in January. You'll also notice there how the president weaved to immigration. It's an issue where he's had more success in terms of popularity and results. The same Fox News poll has Trump at 46 percent approval on immigration versus 38 percent on the economy. So President Trump continued on that subject.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I've also announced a permanent pause on third world migration, including from hellholes like Afghanistan, Haiti, Somalia and many other countries. I didn't say shithole. You did. Remember, I said that to the senators. They came in, the Democrats.
They wanted to be bipartisan. Why is it we only take people from shithole countries? Right? Why can't we have some people from Norway, Sweden? Just a few.
Let us have a few. From Denmark --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Incidentally, for those paying attention, that was President Trump admitting that he said in private in that 2018 meeting with senators that he indeed called African countries shithole countries. President Trump denied saying that back in 2018. He tweeted, the language used by me at the DACA meeting was tough, but this was not the language used.
Again, none of this is a reassuring message about affordability.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Transgender, for every member in your family, if they're not feeling well that night, let's just change their sex.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: OK. Now, there were times last night when you could discern in the speech, in the text, that he did seem to actually be reading on occasion, the messages that his team wants him to convey. For example, that there remains much more work to be done
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: So we're doing it again, but bigger, better, and stronger than ever before. There's more work to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: And while overall inflation is up, he did highlight some of the prices that are coming down.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: So rent prices are down. Dairy prices are coming down very strongly. The cost of Thanksgiving turkeys was down by 33 percent compared to the Biden era. That's a good start. We're bringing it down.
And we're coming down more. We're coming down a lot more. Takes a little time to come down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: He even used charts.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: But look at AIDS, 106 percent, and we got them down 15 percent. Look at those numbers. But you don't hear that from the fake news. You don't hear that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: But just when you would think he was staying on an affordability message of some semblance of cogency, he suggested that the American people need to sacrifice for this economy. And here's how he put it.
[17:25:04]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You can give up certain products, you can give up pencils. That's under the China policy. You know, every child can get 37 pencils. They only need one or two. You know, they don't need that many.
But you always need -- you always need steel. You don't need $37 for your daughter. Two or three is nice, but you don't need $37.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: No dolls for you. President Trump seems to have a difficult time understanding that people out there are hurting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Already, they are saying, better than Lincoln, better than Washington, better than anybody. The best 10 months ever in the history of the presidency.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: At other times in his speech, President Trump seemed more focused on attacking anyone who has suggested that he needs to convey to the public that he understands their struggles.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I went to Saudi Arabia, Qatar and UAE, I brought back $4 trillion. They said, he should be traveling, he should focus on home. What the hell do you think I'm doing? And 250 Boeing jets. I brought back so much everything.
Then they say, he should -- you know, the stupid people, they say, he should be leaving our country. Yes, let's sit around and twiddle our thumbs. It's -- no, sort of crazy, right?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: At times, the president seemed to be even revealing his internal monologue. Not quite Thomas Jefferson's dialogue between his head and heart, but certainly an internal debate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We're dealing with bad people. And the word affordability is the exact same thing. And I can't say affordability hoax because I agree the prices were too high. So I can't go to hoax because they'll misconstrue that. But they use the word affordability, and that's their only word.
They say affordability, and everyone says, oh, that must mean Trump has high prices. No, our prices are coming down tremendously from the highest prices in the history of our country. And look at that chart.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: That chart does not tell you that the American dream of owning a home is simply out of reach for the average American, as the median home price in August was $413,000, up from $321,000 during the same month in 2020. So with those facts there, Trump weaved into the lane of the culture wars.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We have banned the chemical mutilation of children. We suck men from playing in women's sports.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: OK. Of much more importance to most voters right now, if Congress does not act in the next few days, 24 million Americans who rely on Obamacare subsidies will lose those subsidies, and their health insurance premiums will more than double in many cases, worsening the already existing affordability crisis. So what is a president who ran on bringing down prices, what is he to do?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I have fun. I have fun. I haven't read practically anything off the stupid teleprompter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: No kidding. Conservative radio host Erik Erikson reacted to Trump's message on the economy, you don't need $37 for your daughter by tweeting, quote, "Republicans will excuse this the same way Democrats excused all of Biden's issues. And we'll get the same results Democrats got. Welcome, Speaker Jeffries."
How is President Trump's meandering message sitting with Republicans? We'll get the view of one lawmaker next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TAPPER: We're back with that breaking news story. In our World Lead, the United States seizing a tanker, an oil tanker off the coast of Venezuela. The Attorney General of the United States, Pam Bondi, just released video of the seizure saying that the U.S. executed a warrant for this vessel used to transport sanctioned oil from Venezuela and Iran and support -- supported foreign terrorist organizations.
Let's bring in Republican Congressman John Rose of Tennessee. We have a lot to get to, sir. First, your reaction to the tanker being seized and the -- and the timing coming amid these tensions with Venezuela.
REP. JOHN ROSE (R-TN): Well, I think we've seen from the Trump administration and from President Trump a resolve to control, you know, illegal activity, illicit activity all around the globe including most particularly from Venezuela and Central and South America. And I think we see consistency in the President's policies here being acted out.
TAPPER: Let's turn to the President's speech last night about affordability. That's sort of how it was built. What is the Republican message about the economy and affordability? And do you think President Trump is delivering that message successfully to voters?
ROSE: Well, I think so. I think more importantly, though, the President's policies and the policies that Republicans have put in place as promised during the 2024 election was to reverse the disastrous policies from the last four years of the -- the radical progressive policies of the Biden administration and the Democratic Congress.
That had created the worst inflation in my adult lifetime. And so it takes time to turn that ship around. But we see great progress. You know, I just filled up back in Tennessee this past weekend for $2.23 a gallon, lowest prices that we've seen at the pump since President Trump was president the last time. Gas prices across the country under $3 a gallon for all Americans.
And so that will begin to cascade through the economy, reducing the cost from -- of everything from food to -- to, you know, the -- the night out on the town. And so we've got to take the time to stay the course. It took four years to dig this hole. It's going to take some time to dig out.
[17:35:11]
But we see real tangible progress. We're going to see even more on January 1st when the tax cuts from the Working Americans Tax Cuts Act take full effect. And we see no tax on tips, no tax on overtime, no tax for Social Security benefits. And -- and -- and the benefits of the -- of the Trump policy is taking full effect. TAPPER: So I hear you when you say it takes time to turn a ship around, et cetera. The message of it's only just starting. But when President Trump talked about the economy last night, he said a lot of things that were just not true. He said food prices are coming down. As of September, grocery prices are up 2.7 percent year over year, up 1.4 percent since January when Trump took office. On inflation, Trump said he inherited the worst inflation in U.S. history. In reality, he inherited 3 percent inflation, which is what it is now.
It is true that under Biden, inflation peaked at 9.1 percent, but that was back in June 2022. That's not what President Trump inherited. It's -- it's one thing to try to make a case for what his administration is doing and that it's going to take some time. But shouldn't someone privately sit him down and say, please don't tell voters that prices are down because that's not what they're experiencing at the grocery store?
ROSE: Well, I think we do see prices for many things actually coming down. But we know that from history, the problem with inflation is once you set it off, which the Biden policies did, we saw over 20 percent cumulative inflation during the Biden years. Once you start that inflationary spiral, it continues and it takes time to reverse it.
We saw that from the Carter inflation of the 1970s and 80s. It took, in that case, years before we were able to completely tame inflation. And it's going to take time again. And so that's why you don't go down this road. That's why the Biden policies were so abhorrent to the future success of our economy. And I think that's what the President is talking about.
You know, the Democrats created this runaway inflation of the last four years or so, and it takes time to put that genie back in the bottle and it creates a lot of suffering. And it will be the case that some prices will never go back down to the pre-Biden level prices. And I think that's what the President is talking about.
And so when you have a party that actually implemented the policies that led to the inflation to begin with, it's a little rich for them to be leading the charge. It's as if the arsonist is saying, I'll help put out the fire.
TAPPER: Yes, I've heard you made that comment last time you were here, and I understand it as a -- as a political point. But President Trump's out there saying that the affordability issue is a hoax. I don't think it's a hoax. Do you?
ROSE: Well, I think the hoax is the -- is -- is trying to frame the issue as somehow Republicans are responsible for what was clearly created by bad progressive Democratic policies.
TAPPER: Well, tariffs are part of the reason for inflation. Tariffs are part of the reason for inflation when it comes to a lot of -- a lot of objects, a lot of items.
ROSE: Sure, I think if you point to the very near term, you would say, OK, there's some evidence that tariffs are being passed on, but very little actually, certainly not of the magnitude of the tariffs.
And so the President is walking and chewing gum at the same time. We're taking on the bad trade policies of the Biden administration. You know, for four years, President Biden did not open a single market to farmers products here in the United States.
Agricultural products were shut out of so many markets because of the bad trade policies of the Biden administration. So President Trump is trying to open markets and using tariffs as -- as a tool to get that done. That does create some modest inflationary pressures.
TAPPER: Yes.
ROSE: But mostly that's been being absorbed by either the exporters or by middlemen here in this country.
TAPPER: I'll -- I'll just leave you with this food for thought from a "Fox News" poll. It's like two to one in terms of who voters blame for the current economy, like 62 percent say it's Trump's economy, maybe like 32 percent Biden's. But Republican Congressman John Rose, we thank you for your time. And we always appreciate you coming on the show.
ROSE: Thank you.
[17:39:20]
TAPPER: My next guest is often floated as a 2028 presidential candidate. He just suggested the U.S. should follow Australia's lead and ban social media for children and adolescents. Rahm Emanuel will be here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TAPPER: In our Tech Lead, Australia, is now the first country in the world to ban social media for kids under the age of 16. The ban includes some of the most popular apps, such as Instagram, TikTok, Facebook. And now many are wondering whether we could see other countries, including the United States, following suit.
Just a short while ago, in an exclusive interview for CNN's streaming app, I spoke with South Australia Premier Peter Malinauskas, whose draft law inspired the nationwide ban in Australia, along with Jonathan Haidt, whose book "The Anxious Generation" was instrumental in leading to the ban. Here's just part of our conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETER MALINAUSKAS, SOUTH AUSTRALIA PREMIER: All we're saying is if you're under 16, if you're a 12-year-old, your -- your mental abilities, your development of your brain isn't yet at a point to be able to handle the service.
So they're going to get there eventually. But what's the harm in a 14- year-old not getting social media? I mean, what's the worst thing that's going to happen here? I mean, kids start texting each other or calling each other instead, or meeting up at an oval to play some sport or going to dance classes more actively, sitting around talking to their parents, playing with their brothers and sisters. I mean, brothers and sisters in their own families are sitting around in their lounge rooms all staring at a screen. Now they may not be. I mean, what's the worst possible outcome of that?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Let's discuss with the former Chicago mayor, CNN senior political and global affairs commentator, Rahm Emanuel, who was the first possible 2028 presidential candidate, possible to come out and talk about this ban. You -- you've come out and said that the United States should follow Australia's lead and -- and consider our own kind of ban on this. What would that look like?
[17:45:10]
RAHM EMANUEL, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL & GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: Well, I mean, we would develop it ourselves, but you take any one of these social media apps, Instagram, TikTok, Snapchat, they have an algorithm that is more powerful than what the adult in a child's life can do. And I think, you know, as we've done on tobacco products, as we've done on telephones in classrooms, as we've done on designated drivers when it comes to drinking and driving, we have done a series of things to help parents protect kids, and they have been effective.
There is no doubt, when you look at all the research, that these social media apps are leading to mental, emotional strain on children, not only anxiety, but isolation, sense of alienation, and a huge amount of emotional drain. And we're either going to help a parent step in and fight Facebook or we're going to leave a parent all alone trying to take on the most powerful companies in the world in human history. And it's basically, I really do think this, Jake, it's down to either we put faith in the adults or we put faith in the algorithm.
TAPPER: So --
EMANUEL: It's that choice.
TAPPER: -- Jonathan Haidt, in his book, makes a persuasive case on this subject.
EMANUEL: Right.
TAPPER: He told me earlier today about the harm these social media platforms have caused kids. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JONATHAN HAIDT, AUTHOR, "THE ANXIOUS GENERATION": The social media companies, they are deluged with lawsuits and stories of children who died or who had horrible eating disorders and almost died. There are thousands and thousands of parents who are suing these companies because their kids are dead or disfigured. These companies are able to affect children on a scale that no previous consumer product ever did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: What kind of accountability do you think these platforms should face?
EMANUEL: Well, look, Jake, I mean, let me just say this. You're a father of young kids. My kids now have gotten through the wind shear of adolescence. No parent in your kids' classmates, nobody says, I wish my kid was spending more time on the screen on social media. Every one of you are battling the same battle.
And the U.S. government that has power that's equal to these companies is sitting on the sidelines. This cuts across party lines, educational lines, racial lines, all types of lines, brings people together, and I do think we should hold these companies accountable. The first step in that accountability is 16 and younger, keep your hands off the kids. They're not your profit margin. They're our future, and we're going to step in and stop this. And I'll say this as, you know, my dad was a pediatrician.
I used to do rounds with him. I was going to do early childhood education. And as mayor, we had the most restrictive laws on tobacco to kids, and we saw our smoking among teens drop to low single numbers because we stepped in. Now, we know the consequences. There's been study after study. The question is, are we going to do something about it? Now, one thing last year, the Senate took action, not the same thing, but around the area of restriction as it relates to social media.
It passed 97 to 3. You tell me the last time you saw something of significance pass the Senate 97 to 3. They can't even agree on health care. So to me, this actually could be a place of working together.
TAPPER: Releasing the Epstein files -- releasing the Epstein files, I think, was 100 to nothing, but I take your point. Rahm Emanuel, thank you so much. We'll have you back soon to talk more about this.
EMANUEL: Thanks Jake.
[17:48:28]
TAPPER: The dramatic new video this hour, the U.S. seizing a tanker off the coast of Venezuela. We're going to talk more about that and more. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You know, they always have a hoax. The new word is affordability. So they look at the camera and they say, this election is all about affordability.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Back to our Politics Lead, President Trump's economic speech in Pennsylvania turned into a winding rant. My panel joins me now. Charlie Dent. So you represented in Congress, you're a Republican, you represented in Congress an area near where President Trump was speaking last night. I -- I don't know how much of his speech you heard, but he didn't, as that clip illustrates, he didn't really seem to take the issue of affordability all that seriously.
CHARLIE DENT (R), FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: No, he -- he did what I thought he'd do. He'd move into grievance politics, going after Omar, asshole countries, and just, you know, a lot of ad hominem personal attacks, which I don't really think helped him. You know, he has to sound more empathetic on the plight of many people who can't afford their -- their rents, their mortgages, their groceries, their cars.
TAPPER: His message was, you don't need 37 dolls. You can have two dolls. That was -- that's what he said.
DENT: Well, a little bit tone deaf. I don't think that really speaks to most people. I don't know people buying 37 dolls, but I don't know, it just seems like there's a fair amount of disconnection from what real people are facing. He's not helping himself at all, and he's -- and he didn't help himself in a key swing area of the Commonwealth where there are two competitive seats.
TAPPER: Arshi, is President Trump helping Democrats cut ads for next year with how he says these things?
ARSHI SIDDIQUI, FOUNDER, BELLWETHER GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS: Well, let me just say, first start, by saying that there's a lot of time before the election, so first and foremost.
TAPPER: Yes.
SIDDIQUI: But yes, I think absolutely, because actually, ironically, it's very similar to what the Biden campaign was focused on, in terms of just talking about what they had done, but not really focusing on what people were feeling. Trump did that really well in the election, but I think now he has -- he's become insulated and focused on other things.
So I think affordability is a key issue, that the policy isn't match -- matching up, and I think American families are -- are really, you know, they're faring badly under these policies.
TAPPER: Congressman, what -- what would you tell him to say when he go -- when he goes out on the stump, or when he's asked about affordability?
DENT: Well, I think he has to stand up and -- and tell people what he proposes to do, what he plans to do. But first acknowledge the problem, but then tell them whatever his plans are. And, frank, the challenge he has, though, when he initiates tariffs, well, he's doing something that flies in the face of a good economic message, because he's raising costs. Maybe he should be talking about tax cuts. But he's got to talk about a proactive agenda that actually does lower costs. He hasn't done that. Demanding that the Fed raise interest rates, one could argue, is, I mean, lower interest rates might add inflationary pressure. TAPPER: Right.
DENT: If any $2,000 eBay checks, you know what? That could be inflationary. So he's got to get policies in place that actually do lower costs. And I think that's been a problem for the President.
SIDDIQUI: But his policies have created the opposite impact.
TAPPER: Well, in terms of tariffs. Yes.
SIDDIQUI: They've raised costs. Yes. Tariffs. And also, you look at health care, not only the reconciliation bill, but also the most recent on the ACA tax subsidies.
TAPPER: So President Trump talked about an issue close to home earlier today in the Oval Office. Obviously, right now there is this question about who is going to buy Warner Brothers Discovery. CNN is part of that. Netflix wants just Warner Brothers Studios and HBO Max Streamer. And the -- and the news cable channels would just be our own company called Discovery Global. The Paramount wants all of it. And President Trump kind of made it clear today that he wants Paramount to win. This is what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[17:55:20]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What change do you want to see at CNN under new leadership?
TRUMP: I'm not involved in that. I -- I will be probably involved, maybe involved at the decision. It depends. I think any deal should -- it should be guaranteed and certain that CNN is part of it or sold separately.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: So he went on to slam CNN's management and our coverage of him. And I mean, I just -- I -- I've never seen a President weigh in on a news media ownership like this before. What -- what's your response?
DENT: My response is it's not appropriate for the President of the United States to be putting his thumb on the scale on a business deal like this. This should be evaluated by the FTC professionally and somewhat dispassionately. But it just makes people question, you know, what interest does he have? It seems that he wants to get involved with editorial content here at CNN. And frankly, it's not just here.
I mean, you know, there's a golden share in the Nippon U.S. steel deal, the 10 percent stake in Intel. And I don't think, as a Republican, that we should be this involved in the marketplace. There's a reason why, you know, Netflix made a big offer. And it was apparently better than what the Paramount offered. So why not let the market decide this? TAPPER: I remember howls when President Obama's White House just criticized Fox News. Forget trying to, like, influence who bought them or who owned them or their programming.
SIDDIQUI: No, it's -- it's stunning. And I think he's using every lever of power to really try to shape coverage of this administration. And I think he's been successful in some respects. The Jimmy Kimmel, I think, episode was good because there was some pushback. But I think unless there's a real kind of uprising on this to say that freedom of press is a core, fundamental U.S., you know, principle, then I think that's -- that's dangerous to our democracy.
TAPPER: Freedom of the press, I've heard of that. First Amendment. Thanks, everyone.
Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, Democrat of New York, is coming up next. We're going to get his reaction to the big news today. The U.S. seizing a tanker near Venezuela. Plus, the looming deadline for Congress to strike some sort of deal when it comes to health care and those Obamacare premiums expiring. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
