Return to Transcripts main page

The Lead with Jake Tapper

Law Enforcement Officials Say, Investigators Believe They Have Identified a Suspect in Brown University Killings; Democrats Release New Photos from Epstein's Estate; Trump Delivers Winding, Factually Challenged Speech on Economy. Report: DNC Releases Top Lines From "Autopsy" Of 2024 Election Loss; Duffer Brothers Dish On Final Episodes Of "Stranger Things". Aired 6-7p ET

Aired December 18, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.

And tonight, we're following breaking news here in Washington and across the United States. Investigators believe they have identified the suspect in that Brown University shooting that killed two students and injured nine others on Saturday. Sources say authorities have signed an arrest warrant and are actively searching for the male suspect.

[18:00:00]

We're going to go live to the Providence Police Department for the latest details and moments.

Plus, a tragedy in North Carolina, at least seven people are believed to have been killed when a private plane crashed shortly after takeoff. State officials say that former NASCAR Driver Greg Biffle and his family were on board the plane. CNN is live near the scene where investigators are starting the process of trying to figure out what went so wrong.

And we are just hours away from a major deadline for the Justice Department to publicly release its files about the investigation into convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. In a moment, CNN has some new reporting about the frustration mounting inside the FBI as they race to redact the thousands of pages of files before they must be released tomorrow.

Our Lead tonight, those new details -- tonight, those new details coming fast in the Brown University killing. Sources tell CNN that authorities have signed that warrant for an arrest.

Let's get straight to CNN's Brian Todd Providence, Rhode Island. We're expecting an update from police. Brian?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right, Jake. And as our John Miller has been reporting, the investigators believe that they have I.D.ed a suspect in the case. This person is not in custody. They are seeking him, according to John Miller's reporting, and that they have a signed arrest warrant for that person. Separately, I just spoke to Major Dave Lapatin. He's a lead investigative official with the Providence Police. He said that he talked to me regarding that second person, this person who they said was in proximity to the main person of interest, the man, police said, was captured on video, on camera, in proximity to the main person of interest in the Brown University shooting. That person has been found and has been interviewed by law enforcement. That's according to Major David Lapatin of the Providence Police. But Major Lapatin did say, quote, he's not a suspect. That's what I just got from Major Lapatin.

I asked Major Lapatin about this second person if he could tell us anything about what he might have said in that interview, any other detail, and he said he could not give us that. But that second person, Jake, who was captured on camera in proximity, police say, to the main person of interest has been brought in and been interviewed by law enforcement. And we are told by Major David Lapatin from the Providence Police that that second person is, quote, not a suspect. Jake?

TAPPER: All right. Brian Todd, thanks so much. We're going to come back to you when that news conference from the authorities and law enforcement begins.

Turning to our Law and Justice Lead, a new trove of photographs from dead pedophile Jeffrey Epstein's Estate, Democrats on the House Oversight Committee today unveiled more than 60 new photographs. At least five pictures show an unknown woman with quotes written on different parts of her body. All of them are quotes from Lolita, which, of course, is a then controversial novel about a man's sexual obsession with a 12-year-old girl written by Vladimir Nabokov.

This new trove of pictures include an image of Epstein surrounded by three women whose faces were redacted by the committee, multiple foreign female passports, and a number of photos reinforcing Epstein's ties to high-profile and powerful and notable men. It all comes a day before the Justice Department must publicly release its Epstein files. And in the department of curious timing, this is the same day that Congress today is adjourning for the year, enabling Republicans to avoid questions about whatever comes out tomorrow from those Epstein files.

CNN's Evan Perez has exclusive reporting on the Justice Department's effort to redact some of the files on Epstein ahead of the deadline tomorrow. Evan?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jake. Well, the redactions are going down to the wire. You have lawyers at the Justice Department's national security division that have been overseeing this effort over the last few weeks. And a lot of this is still a part of an exercise in frustration for some of these lawyers, in part because some of the guidance that they've gotten from the Justice Department about what exactly needs to be redacted, the number of different categories of things that they need to make sure are redacted in these thousands of pages of documents, including privileges, including protection of victims' identification, there's Privacy Act, all kinds of things that the Justice Department wants to make sure is not public when these documents come out tomorrow.

Now, we know that the big concern for the lawyers is that their mistakes are going to be made, right? We've seen that before. There's reason for that concern. Because, for instance, earlier this year, there was a release of some JFK files, and there was personal information of a number of people that was released in those documents, people who were still alive, who then went and said, you know, my information is not being made public. The work that did I did for the US government is now being exposed. So, that's part of the concern here. And, obviously, because you have all these Epstein survivors, everybody is very, very much wary of affecting any of those people.

The question for the Justice Department, Jake, is whether the release tomorrow is the end of a debacle that really has been overshadowing people at the Justice Department for a number of months ever since Pam Bondi, the attorney general, had those Epstein files in a binder presented to MAGA influencers earlier this year, and then in July decided that there was no more information to be released.

[18:05:20]

We expect, Jake, that there's going to be significant redactions, and, of course, that's going to lead people to ask what is -- Jake?

TAPPER: That's been the question for decades now. What is being hidden?

Evan Perez, thank you so much.

PEREZ: Sure.

TAPPER: Let's bring in a Democrat on the House Oversight Committee, Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi of Illinois. Congressman, thanks so much for joining us.

So, why release the 60-plus new photos now and not with the batch you all released last week?

REP. RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI (D-IL): Well, I think that there's one of two ways of doing this. One, you could wait to review everything and then release them en masse, or doing it on a roll -- or do it on a rolling basis. And I think that we're doing it on a rolling basis because there's so much intense interest in these documents and it just makes sense to kind of release them as soon as they're ready to be released.

TAPPER: Why are only House Democrats releasing these photos? Why is this not a bipartisan process?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: You'd have to ask the majority. I think the majority is trying to hold a lot of these documents. They say that they want to wait to release them all at once, but I think the curiosity about what's in them that -- and they're trying to do this on a more expedited basis, TAPPER: We're also seeing these photos with really no context about what they are, who they are, why they are, where they are with the people they're with. What exactly do they contribute to the public's understanding of Epstein in his sex trafficking ring?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: I think that combined with hopefully the files that are produced tomorrow as part of the compliance with the law that we just passed and President Trump signed, hopefully, there will be more context for a lot of these images because, quite frankly, there isn't a lot of context within the documents that have been released.

Now, the Epstein estate is also releasing documents. And so, hopefully, piecing it all together, we can learn more about what is exactly going on here.

TAPPER: Sources tell CNN that there's frustration in staff that are racing to redact some of the information in the Epstein files. Are you confident that the Justice Department is going to comply with the law with tomorrow's deadline to release all of the files on Epstein and where information is redacted, explanations as to why?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: I'm not 100 percent confident about that. On the other hand, I think that they must comply with the law and remember the subpoena, which the Oversight Committee issued you know, basically requires all documents to be produced, there's no carve out, there's no exceptions at all.

Now remember, why are we here? It's because, you know, a thousand-plus victims of this child sex trafficking ring, many of whom are now middle-aged women, have come to us and have not yet received any justice. And so I think that has really stiffened the resolve of Democrats and Republicans to make sure that the law is complied with.

TAPPER: These sources in the Justice Department also tell CNN that whatever becomes public tomorrow, there will still remain extensive amounts of information redacted. Do House Democrats have a plan if that's the case, or will you accept what comes tomorrow no matter what?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: No. I think we'll be kind of comparing and contrasting with other productions, whether it's the Jeffrey Epstein estate or whether it's other documents that have come already to our attention. So, I think that we'll get some understanding of what are the holes.

The one category of information that I am most interested in are the financial records. There were more than a billion dollars in transactions apparently associated with this ghastly child sex trafficking ring. And so following the money is essential to understanding what happened, who got paid what and for what purpose.

TAPPER: I heard a member of Congress saying that he personally knows of a number of men who, in his view, according to survivors of Epstein, and according to attorneys, were guilty of participating in the sex trafficking. And if they are not named in these documents tomorrow, he will know that stuff is being hidden. Is -- do you also have that information?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: We received a number of names from the survivors, and so we will be also comparing, you know, whatever we see in the production against what they told us. So, yes, I think that there's going to be some general understanding of what is being almost withheld, if it is withheld.

[18:10:02]

I'm hoping it's not, but I think there's enough kind of guidance being provided by the survivors and their attorneys that will have at least some understanding of what might still be out there.

TAPPER: Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi, Democrat of Illinois, thank you so much.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Thank you so much.

TAPPER: President Trump making headlines on issues ranging from Venezuela to marijuana. CNN's Chief Whites Correspondent Kaitlan Collins is going to join us live in studio next to break it all down,

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our Politics Lead, it's been a whirlwind 24 hours for a 79-year-old President Trump last night, a rather divisive primetime address, chockfull of dystopian rhetoric. This afternoon, a major announcement on reclassifying marijuana to make it easier to research in terms of its medical uses. In just moments, President Trump's going to sign the Senate and House-passed annual defense policy bill.

[18:15:00]

We're lucky enough to have with us here in studio CNN's Kaitlan Collins and Kaitlan, the National Defense Authorization Act, as it's called, it's not all good news for President Trump in there.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I mean, it definitely has some provisions the White House is not happy about, but Congress passed it anyway and the president is expected to sign it without issue. But there's part of it in there, those boat strikes that we've been talking about. Congress wants the full, unedited versions of those videos for them to be able to see.

And so basically there's a provision in this bill that the president is about to sign that demands they hand that over to Congress, and if they don't, it cuts 25 percent of Secretary Hegseth's travel budget. It's a push by Congress basically to try to increase this pressure, which is, you know, a rare spot where we see Congress breaking with the administration. But it's because lawmakers want more information on what's been happening with these boat strikes.

And so we'll see what the president says. Obviously, he spoke a little bit earlier in the Oval Office when he was signing that executive order on the reclassification of marijuana. It doesn't legalize it, but it basically will make more research available and, you know, there was some GOP opposition to that.

But I think the last 24 hours, Jake, at the White House after the president's speech last night. I saw you all talking about it a moment ago. One thing, according to the reporters in the room that the president said right after he asked people if they thought he did a good job. He said, basically, he asked his team, he said, it's not so easy to deliver a speech like that.

But he also said that his chief of staff, Susie Wiles, is the person who instructed him to deliver that message to the country. And it's notable, given he's also going to be speaking in North Carolina tomorrow on this issue that has been first and foremost for voters, which is the economy. They got some good news on inflation today that it cooled in November to 2.7 percent, but that has really been the issue that he has struggled to tackle.

And, you know, we were talking to Republicans last night after that speech about whether or not he gave them more political cover when it comes to how they're talking about the economy to their own voters. Obviously, that is something that we have to wait and see how that plays out. But it certainly will be something the president talks about tomorrow.

TAPPER: It's been a week for him though, starting with that insensitive tweet about the death of Rob Reiner and then those plaques put up at the White House that just --

COLLINS: The plaques have generated so much attention.

TAPPER: That just insult like, like graffiti would insult the predecessors, and then that speech last night, like it just seems like a lot.

COLLINS: And the president handwrote some of those plaques himself. I mean, that's not surprising if you're reading them, it reads like a Truth Social post. There's like random capitalization, a lot of the insults that he often lobs at them.

But I was -- we went out for the departure, you know, that's obviously covering the White House. You go out when the president is arriving back at the White House. We were out there yesterday. And like just to see these huge plaques, they were still putting some of them up and putting more stuff up on the presidential walk of fame, as the president calls it. Some of them have pretty short plaques. But even like Andrew Jackson's, when you look at his, it talks about how unfairly he was treated by the press and says, maybe more so than any president, except until President Trump came into office. I mean, it just reads like the president literally wrote it.

TAPPER: Yes. I assume when he asked his staff how he did after the speech, everyone said it was just the best speech ever.

COLLINS: Yes, there were some positive affirmations. I don't know about quotes of best speech ever, but definitely positive feedback.

TAPPER: Yes, not a lot of negative or constructive feedback given by that team.

Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much. Don't miss Kaitlan on her show, The Source with Kaitlan Collins. Tonight, she's going to be joined by Democratic Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett of Texas, who's running for Senate. That's tonight at 9:00 Eastern only on CNN and the CNN app.

Tributes pouring in after a famed NASCAR driver and his family were killed in a plane crash in North Carolina today. A horrific scene, we're going to go live there for an update on the investigation into what went so wrong, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:20:00]

TAPPER: Some tragedy in our National League. Seven people have been killed after a small private jet craft shortly after taking off in Statesville, North Carolina, which is located just north of Charlotte. Former NASCAR Driver Greg Biffle and his family are among the victims, according to North Carolina Congressman Richard Hudson.

CNN's Dianne Gallagher is at the scene in North Carolina, but I want to start with CNN Aviation Correspondent Pete Muntean.

And, Pete, the NTSB and the National Transportation Safety Board is investigating the crash. What more can you tell us?

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, investigators really have their work cut out for them here, but, of course, they'll be looking at all of the video that's coming in, including this grizzly new video from a doorbell camera just southeast of the Statesville Regional Airport there. You can see the black smoke and the fireball of the Cessna citation jet weighs about 15,000 pounds, not an insignificant size, seats about six to eight people as it was coming in for this apparent attempted landing there at the Statesville Airport.

This is a hotbed of activity for NASCAR teams only about 40 miles north of Charlotte. And, of course, that makes sense with the fact that we know Greg Biffle, NASCAR legend, perished in this crash, along with six others. Biffle, an accomplished pilot, he was a helicopter pilot as well known for relief efforts during Hurricane Helene.

I just want to show you the flight path here because it really details a flight that was doomed from the start. This airplane took off from the Statesville Regional Airport at about 10:06 A.M. Eastern Time, took off to the east there, this is looking north, and then made that left turnout over that highway there, climbed to about. 4,000 feet, pretty low altitude, and then turn directly back for the airport. That's that turn that you can see in the bottom left of that image.

Clearly something very wrong, only got about six to eight miles away from the airport, made a beeline straight back there, then entered what's called the downward leg, perpendicular to the runway, made a left turn to line up with runway 28 there. But that video essentially corroborates what we already knew that this airplane did not make it quite back, and the wreckage essentially tumbled there onto the runway, leaving that hulk of inferno there, really a grizzly scene in Statesville, North Carolina.

[18:25:01]

So many outpourings of support here, a really horrible crash, and the fact that NASCAR has been hit by crashes involving small, light private jets over and over again. Dale Earnhardt Jr. escaped with his life in a similar crash involving as Cessna citation type as well back in 2019. There have been crashes in 2004, 2007. The list really goes on and no NASCAR team has not been touched by one of these crashes, especially now.

TAPPER: And, Dianne, as Pete mentioned, condolences are pouring in for NASCAR legend Greg Biffle and his family. Tell us about him. I know you knew them.

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Here in Charlotte, my husband works in the NASCAR world as well as a journalist. And, look, the Biffle family was well known and they are being mourned not just though for what he did on the track, but as Pete mentioned, off the track as well. That second act that really exploded for Greg Biffle last year in those Hurricane Helene relief efforts in North Carolina.

We're seeing everybody, from firefighters and fans, rescue groups. The governor of North Carolina pay tribute to what Greg Biffle did. He took his helicopter up. He saved people who were stranded. He had supplies rained down from the skies on those who were stuck or who did not want to leave, and he continued coming month after month with aid and different supplies for the people there, the praise that is pouring in for his efforts and his wife Christina's efforts during the aftermath of Helene and continued.

Their good friend, Congressman Richard Hudson, noting that he is mourning their death, of course, saying, quote, they were friends who lived their lives, focused on helping others. Greg was a great NASCAR champion who thrilled millions of fans.

Now, I do want to read a joint statement from all of the affected families of those seven victims on that plane here saying that Greg and Christina were devoted parents and active philanthropists whose lives were centered around their young son, Ryder and Greg's daughter, Emma, her mother, Nicole Lunders. Emma was a wonderful human being with a kind soul who was loved by many people. Ryder was an active, curious, and infinitely joyful child. Dennis Dutton and his son, Jack, were deeply loved as well, and their losses felt by all who knew them. And Craig Wadsworth was beloved by many in the NASCAR community and will be missed by those who knew him.

Now, many people, of course, are also praising the Biff for what he did on the track, one of NASCAR's 75 greatest drivers, NASCAR noting that he was a beloved member of the community and a fierce competitor on the track. Jake?

TAPPER: Horrible story. Dianne Gallagher, Pete Muntean, thank you so much for bringing us the latest. Law enforcement officials are racing the track down a man that they just identified as the suspect in the Brown University shooting. CNN's tracking all the breaking details ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:00]

TAPPER: We are back with our Law and Justice Lead. The day before the Justice Department must publicly release its files on Jeffrey Epstein, House Democrats unveiled more than 60 new photographs from Epstein's estate. One photo is a screenshot of a series of text messages from a conversation where an unknown person is discussing sending girls. The message says, quote, I don't know. Try to send someone else. I have a friend scout. She sent me some girls today, but she asks a thousand dollars per girl. I will send you girls now. Maybe someone will be good for J, unquote.

Some of the information in the next part of the message is redacted. What is visible is name, 18-year-old, height, weight, Shenzhen with a check mark next to it, departure city, Russia. It's unclear who this message was sent to.

I want to bring in someone whose work brought so much of Epstein's trafficking details to like Miami Herald Investigative Reporter Julie K. Brown. She's also the author of Perversion of Justice, the Jeffrey Epstein Story, which is a must read if you care about this story.

Julie, almost a week later, and Democrats in the House Oversight Committee released another batch of Epstein photos, is there anything in this latest round that caught your attention?

JULIE K. BROWN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, THE MIAMI HERALD: Well, it's funny that you just read that email because that's exactly what caught my attention because we have been reviewing, as you know, there's been quite a number of document dumps both by the Oversight Committee and some leaks that the media has been getting from many hacking sources. And what I have been looking at is a bunch of emails that are similar to this that we have put together.

And we have a story that's going to run tonight about similar emails that Epstein and his recruiters were passing back and forth that said things like, do you have a girl for me, we give sometimes photographs of the girl. It would also provide her height, her weight, you know, she's a college student. I mean, it's clear that he had recruiters all over the world, really. We know that he had at least a couple in Russia. There's a woman in these emails who is in Brazil. We know that there were people that were in, you know, Lithuania, Estonia, different countries like that are photographed in this cache of various I.D.s that belonged to women from countries all over the world.

TAPPER: We've gotten many different answers over the years about President Trump's relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. The New York Times took a look at it in an in-depth story in an article today, Don's best friend, how Epstein and Trump bonded over the pursuit of women, unquote. We should be clear, it doesn't say anything about Trump and anyone underage.

The article does say, quote, the president has tried to minimize their friendship at documents and interviews reveal an intense and complicated relationship. Chasing women was a game of ego and dominance. Female bodies were currency unquote, it says.

[18:35:01]

The Times says they interviewed 30 former Epstein employees and victims and others who crossed paths with both Epstein and Trump.

What did you think of the story? Is that basically your understanding of Trump and Epstein's relationship?

BROWN: Yes. I think some of this we knew especially with some of these models and women that were involved in pageants who had previously accused Trump of either groping them or somehow being improper with them. So, we knew that there was this situation involving models in particular that they would have these parties at Mar-a-Lago and that both Epstein and Trump were very much involved in going to these parties.

My understanding is that there were situations in Epstein's case where these so-called models were actually sent to Epstein to have sex with. And that, in some cases, as we know, Trump was also accused by some of these women of, you know, some improper conduct.

TAPPER: Yes.

BROWN: So, some of this information we knew, and I think that this went into more detail about exactly how close they were.

TAPPER: We should just note again that President Trump has never been proven to have done anything indecent relating to the Jeffrey Epstein underage girls story. Tomorrow is the deadline for the Justice Department to publicly release its files on Epstein, as mandated by law. What are you anticipating?

BROWN: I think it's going to be a mess. I mean, I hope that they got their stuff together. I mean, this has been coming for a while. The public has been pushing for transparency for -- even before the Trump became president. We know that the Justice Department had been poring through these files in the past. So, hopefully, they were already organizing them in some fashion. But it's a big task because we're talking, you know, decades-worth of material here.

And also a lot of it is repetitious. You know, sometimes some of the information we sometimes get is because they make mistakes and they don't redact information that they're supposed to. So, I would imagine there's going to be some of that tomorrow and that there's going to be a lot of redactions over -- probably overredactions.

So, you know, it's hard to say if they're going to be able to -- how much they're going to release. I'd be very surprised if they release everything tomorrow. I just think it's such a tall task for them to do, you know, to release it all in one day. For one thing, it'll probably crash everybody's computer systems.

TAPPER: Right.

BROWN: Because everybody will get in at the same time.

TAPPER: All right. Julie K. Brown, Miami Herald, thank you so much. I appreciate it, looking forward to your story later tonight.

This just in, what the Democratic National Committee is now saying about the in-depth autopsy they had planned on the 2024 election and the party's loss to Donald Trump. That story's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:00]

TAPPER: A resignation in the Politics Lead. A top appointee for incoming New York City Mayor Zohran Mamdani is stepping down because past anti-Semitic tweets she had written were discovered. Catherine Al Monte Da Costa is the aide. Just yesterday, Mamdani named her to be director of appointments. In 2011, she tweeted about money hungry Jews, among other things. The Judge Street Journal Substack was first to report these old posts.

In a statement, Da Acosta expressed deep regret for, or Da Costa, rather, expressed deep regret for those posts and said they're not indicative of who she is now.

We have some breaking news in our Politics Lead, after initially saying that they would not release the highly anticipated autopsy of the 2024 election, the DNC has at least partially reversed course after intense pressure and released some top lines of its review to the public. Christine Pelosi, Speaker Nancy Pelosi's daughter, released the top lines on her Twitter account. We should note this is not the full report.

My panel joins me now. And, Jamie Gangel you've just had a chance to review Christy Pelosi's tweets. What stands out to you?

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: I am still reading it sounds as if a lot of this is about in-house organizing, how they do media, how they do communications, how they organize, tech data, fundraising, spending. One thing just notable, modernizing that they shouldn't be just knocking on so many doors and things about the youth swing vote, but I'm still reading.

TAPPER: Okay. So, Xochitl, you have some views on this. What do you think the DNC should do and what was the problem in 2024 for Democrats?

XOCHITL HINOJOSA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. Listen, it should not surprise everybody here, but the reason why Democrats want is because, and you've reported extensively about it in your book, Original Sin, is that Joe Biden shouldn't have run for president, period, end of story. There is no other reason why Democrats lost. There should have been a competitive primary that always helps Democrats. It actually helps both parties when there is a competitive primary and the best person comes out to the top. I learned in 2016, after the 2016 race, people felt that, you know, Hillary Clinton, yes, was the best candidate, but there were a lot of supporters in the Democratic Party that felt that Bernie Sanders didn't get a fair shake.

So, what happened after that? We did put an autopsy report talking about how Obama had ditched the party at the time. What we did is we fixed that. And we had a fair process where we had 20-plus candidates in the race, and now Ed Martin is making the right decision. Instead of going out and saying -- I mean, that report wasn't going to say that Joe -- the reason why he lost is Joe Biden. It was going to --

GANGEL: I was just going to say, I've scrolled quickly through the --

HINOJOSA: Yes.

GANGEL: Joe Biden's name is not.

HINOJOSA: Is not in there. And it's a lot of infrastructure stuff. It's the stuff that DNC should be worried about, fundraising, organizing, how do you reach young voters, how do you reach women, how do you reach Latino voters. Those are the things. And so I think it is smart what they did.

[18:45:00]

It's dumb to be focusing on the past, but that was the one reason why we lost, Joe Biden.

TAPPER: Shermichael, what's the -- what do you think are the main reasons? Obviously, you know, people were worried about the economy then as they are now, people worried about immigration then, less so now because President Trump has made so many advances in terms of shutting down the border.

What do you think are --

SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Those are sort of the top line points. But when you dig a little deeper, one big concern, and I'm actually curious to read this one we lost in 2012 or against President Obama. The RNC did the growth and opportunity project. I was a part of that, specifically talking about what I saw at that time, which was years ago, an opportunity for young men of color.

And fast forward a decade plus later, Donald Trump effectuated that change that I saw many years ago.

And so, I'll be curious, as a Republican strategist to see what can and are Democrats willing to do to communicate with young men, young men of color, this idea that men don't feel that there's a sense of purpose for them in society. A lot of young men view the Democratic Party overall and their messaging as being more feminine engaged versus masculine engaged.

And so, I'm curious to see where they stand on those issues. And are they willing, Jake, to take positions that may ostracize some of the progressives in their party?

TAPPER: Yeah. And one of the reasons why there was reluctance to look back, look backward was because Democrats did have such a good election day this year with those races in New Jersey and Virginia and really all over the country, up and down the ballot. So, do you think it's a good idea for Democrats to try to figure out what went wrong in 2024?

I mean, I kind of agree with Xochitl. I think it's --

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Move on?

TAPPER: You don't need -- well, no, I don't think move on. I think you don't need an autopsy. Alex Thompson and I wrote a book that explains what happened. No one went so wrong.

HINOJOSA: Everybody knows what happened.

GANGEL: And that book was called?

TAPPER: "Original Sin".

GANGEL: Yeah. There we go. Okay, so let's just say they won the governors race in Virginia.

TAPPER: Yeah.

GANGEL: They won in New Jersey. I am from New York City, but I just would like to say for the record, the mayor's race, they won it. New York is its own -- Manhattan is an island. It's a whole other thing.

I think that just I got to the last paragraph here, "Our North Star winning." That's the conclusion of this. And they talk about some of the things you just mentioned -- the youth vote listening to voters, the economy you know, what voters concerns are. They're doing pretty well.

TAPPER: Another, another, another topic I want to bring up is "The New York Times" obtained a recording of a call in late 2020 between President Trump, who was then president, and the speaker of the Georgia House of Representatives. And in the call, he pressures the speaker to hold a special legislative session in order to overturn Trump's election loss.

Here's just part of the call that "The New York Times" got.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You do it to uncover fraud. You can say, for transparency and to uncover fraud, possible fraud. So who's going to stop you for that? You know, it's like -- DAVID RALSTON, FORMER GEORGIA HOUSE SPEAKER: A federal -- a federal

judge, possibly. Yeah. You know, Mr. President, I -- you know, there's some -- there's some liberals out there. You've dealt with them.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

TAPPER: So Trump lost Georgia by more than 11,000 votes in 2020. Your reaction to the call?

SINGLETON: You know, I'm going to be honest, we lost the election. Okay? We got four years of Joe Biden. I personally don't think it was a very good four years, which is why Donald Trump was able to come back showcasing the level of strength that Republicans haven't seen with certain demographic groups, arguably, since Richard Nixon. That can't be discounted.

But, Jake, I got to be honest and candid obliges me to do so. I don't know a single person out there who cares about this at this point. I got to be honest. People are thinking about the economy.

TAPPER: Sure.

SINGLETON: They're thinking about cost of living. They're wondering what the hell my party is going to do to make sure that their kids can buy their first home after graduating college. They want to make sure that there's stability and certainty. That's what I think people are worried about.

HINOJOSA: Yeah. Listen, Jack Smith was getting ready to go to trial at the Justice Department whenever after he brought the charges, they were ready to go. They wanted to go the January after, they brought the justice -- the charges. He testified yesterday before the House Judiciary Committee. And he said in his testimony, our investigation developed proof beyond a reasonable doubt that President Trump engaged in a criminal scheme to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election and to prevent the lawful transfer of power.

I will say this audio would have come out in trial if there was a trial, and I think there are a lot of questions still about what evidence is out there on the classified docs case that has not been made public because Judge Cannon has blocked it.

TAPPER: All right. Thanks, everyone.

Ten years later, the hit show "Stranger Things" is sadly coming to an end. Next, I'm going to be joined live by the show's creators, the Duffer brothers, to discuss the program's success as fans brace for the final moments in the upside down.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:54:11]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything you have ever assumed about the upside down has been dead wrong.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mother of God.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Our pop culture lead kicks off in the upside down, Netflix's smash hit "Stranger Things" is wrapping up its incredible ten-year run. Season five, volume two drops on Christmas Day and the series finale on New Year's Eve, which will also release in theaters. Major questions remain will the motley crew finally defeat the evil villain? And which of the beloved characters will make it out alive?

The mad scientists behind the hit series, twin brothers Ross and Matt Duffer join us now.

First of all, congratulations. What -- what a run.

[18:55:01]

Matt, I'm a huge fan of both you and your brother. My daughter, as I told you in the break, has watched every season multiple times. My staff is obsessed.

So, what sort of emotions can viewers expect as the series wraps up? And how will you feel when that last episode hits both the small and big screens?

MATT DUFFER, CREATOR, "STRANGER THINGS": I -- I don't know how exactly people are going to feel. I imagine they're going to kind of, sort of feel how we felt, which is a mix of emotions and, you know, confusing emotions. So, I mean, there's an inevitability to it. Like, there's not a part of me going. I wish this continued on to season six. It feels like this is the right time, you know, to end it.

But at the same time, it's been really hard and really sad to say, say goodbye to this story and these characters.

TAPPER: And, Ross, the life of the show, 10 years, 10 seasons, the streaming and movie theater landscape has also evolved so dramatically since the show first premiered. You signed on to a new exclusive four- year deal with Paramount, which starts next year. What is Paramount offering that Netflix can't other than maybe more money?

ROSS DUFFER, CREATOR, "STRANGER THINGS": For us, it was really about, you know, we wanted to make a movie next just because we spent 10 years doing a show and Netflix has been incredible, but we when we wanted when we wanted to do a movie that was came out theatrically, so that was the main thing. Although, you know, obviously the landscape continues to change, so who knows what the future is going to be at Netflix. Hopefully, the theatrical market can continue to thrive. And you know, we keep seeing movies go out in theaters and specifically for us original movies, not just stuff based on IP and comic books. We like that stuff as well, but we want to see big original stories out there in theaters. TAPPER: Matt, fans have truly watched the kids in the show grow up in

real time, showcasing their evolving trials with bullying and heartbreak and grief. Have you heard any specific stories from fans about how these themes and these characters resonated with them?

M DUFFER: Yeah, every once in a while, someone will come up to us, and I mean, I think that's been the most meaningful thing about the show. I mean, because when we initially conceived it and pitched it, we thought it was going to appeal to people our age or a little bit older who grew up on these '80s films. So people in their 30s and 40s who understood these references.

But I think what surprised us is that it's connected with younger people as well. And so they're sometimes often the same age as the characters are. And, you know, they'll come up and say it helped either them or their friends or all of them through difficult periods in their lives, whether through middle school or high school. And to me, that's, you know, that's the best thing to hear. And that's been such a moving part and surprising part of this whole journey.

TAPPER: Ross, if I don't ask this question, my staff is going to fire on masse. So everyone on the staff wants to know the fate of one of your beloved characters, played by Joe Keery. Blink once if Steve Hharrington dies. Blink twice if Steve Harrington lives.

M. DUFFER: You just blinked.

R. DUFFER: I know, I just instinctually did it. I don't know. Anything could happen. I don't know where the Steve is going to die fears came from. We've never said it. Although I guess we did last night on Fallon, so I can't say that anymore.

M. DUFFER: Yeah, but I think it's because he's so -- he's so --

R. DUFFER: So beloved.

M. DUFFER: Joe is so charming.

R. DUFFER: And we like to beat him up every year. We usually give him a black eye or something. So I guess the next step would be death. Would be death for Steve.

M. DUFFER: Yeah.

TAPPER: So, Matt, one of the things that I find so inspiring about you guys is that you pitch the show more than a dozen times, and it was rejected, and you still kept pitching because you were so confident in your idea.

And you're right. You were right. And how does that feel? And like, did you call any of the people that rejected you and say, like, suck it? Or like, what was your reaction?

M. DUFFER: It's so tempting. And now that we're on CNN to call them out, but there's too many of them we'd be on -- but no, I mean, like, I mean, I mean, you set, you know, you set a bunch of pitches. I mean, it's not, you know, it's normal. It was within a span of a week.

And, and sometimes you go in these rooms and you can tell they're not interested the minute you step in. But you still have to pitch your heart out for 20 minutes. But, I mean, you have to like it was interesting at the time when we were pitching the two things that were most cited for why no one wanted to make the show was that it starred kids, but was not for kids, and that it was set in the '80s because period pieces were not in and the '80s were not in.

So those are probably the two elements that made the show a hit. So, proof that no one in Hollywood knows what they're talking about. But also, you know, good, you know, Netflix was a real risk taker, and they took a risk on not just this idea, but on but on me and Ross. It was pretty incredible.

TAPPER: Well, thank you on behalf of my daughter Alice, for everything you have brought to her. I think she's going to be weeping the way I was when they aired the last "M*A*S*H" in 1982. I'm anticipating that continued success to you guys, Ross and Matt Duffer, the duffer brothers. Thank you. Stranger things five, volume two premieres Christmas day, and the final episode premieres on New Year's Eve, only on Netflix.

Success to you guys, Ross and Matt Duffer, the Duffer brothers -- thank you. "Stranger Things 5, Volume 2" premieres Christmas day, and the final episode premieres on New Year's Eve, only on Netflix.

Thanks so much, gentlemen. Really appreciate it.

M. DUFFER: Thank you for having us.

TAPPER: You can follow the show on X and Instagram @TheLeadCNN. If you ever miss an episode of the show, you can watch the show on the CNN app.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now. See you tomorrow.