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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump DOJ Releases Trove of Epstein Files; Suspected Gunman in Brown University and MIT Shootings Found Dead; Heroic Bystander Who Wrestled Gun from Bondi Beach Attacker Receives $1.6 Million in Donations; Ben Shapiro Slams Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens At Conservative Event; Paul Rudd & Jack Black Team Up For New Adventure Comedy. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired December 19, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to the lead on Jake Taber.

This hour, the just-released documents related to the investigation of dead pedophile Jeffrey Epstein, they include several never-before-seen photos of former President Bill Clinton with Epstein, although we're not sure when the pictures were taken.

[18:00:006]

Our CNN teams are poring through the files. We're bringing you the latest updates as we get them.

Plus, another story of heroism emerging from the tragic shooting in Australia on Sunday, what we're learning tonight about the brave police officer seen exchanging gunfire with one of the Bondi Beach attackers despite being outgunned and outnumbered.

Also, President Trump hitting the road tonight, set to speak in North Carolina in just a few hours. But if the economy is really doing as well as President Trump says, why is he in a battleground state on a Friday night, just before Christmas?

And we're sending you off into this last weekend with -- before Christmas with a real treat. Paul Rudd is here to preview his upcoming movie, Anaconda, and he is dishing on what it was like to work behind the scenes with some of the other funniest people in Hollywood.

The Lead tonight, the Justice Department releasing a trove of files on Jeffrey Epstein just hours ahead of tonight's deadline, thousands of photos and videos and documents from inside the world of the notorious pedophile and his co-conspirators. Our CNN team is combing through it all right now and we'll bring you the latest updates as we have them. Lots of it has been redacted by the Justice Department for the privacy and safety of the victims. There's a lot of stuff that has been redacted that is not because of the privacy and safety of the victims, obviously.

Of note, so far, several never seen photos of former President Bill Clinton with the convicted sex offender, Jeffrey Epstein, and his accomplished Ghislaine Maxwell, though it's unclear where or when the photos were taken. Were they taken before Maxwell and Epstein were charged with anything? That's a big question.

CNN has reached out to a spokesperson for Clinton about the photos. We should note the former president has never been accused by law enforcement of any wrongdoing related to Epstein, and a spokesperson has repeatedly said that Clinton cut ties with Epstein long before Epstein was arrested in 2019 and did not know about the crimes.

Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche says the Justice Department received no orders to redact President Trump's name or anyone else's name from the files.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TODD BLANCHE, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: There's no effort to hold anything back because there's the name Donald J. Trump, or anybody else's name, Bill Clinton's name, Reed Hoffman's name.

I will give the order. President Trump has certainly said from the beginning that he expects all files that can be released to be released, and that's exactly what we're doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Deputy Attorney General Blanche also says this batch was just the first and much more is to come. That's not, of course, what the law passed by Congress and signed by the president last month mandates.

Let's get right to CNN's Katelyn Polantz. Katelyn?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: There are many redactions here, but there's also just so many documents to be going through, including many, many photos that the Justice Department is releasing.

Some of this was framed up quite explicitly by Todd Blanche, the deputy attorney general from the Justice Department. He wrote a letter to Congress. And in that letter, he disclosed a couple of things. One, he is saying on the second page of his letter to Congress that there is no information that the Justice Department has uncovered in this review of hundreds of thousands of pages of the Epstein files where it believes there could be a new investigation against someone who has not previously been charged, specifically meaning Jeffrey Epstein, Ghislaine Maxwell. So don't expect there to be any new allegations or charges coming from what we see here today.

The second thing that he's saying is that transparency, the act says there can be some exemptions to what is revealed publicly, things like victims' names blacked out, some other types of information, foreign policy sensitive details, things about ongoing investigations. Blanche says the Justice Department, they're going to be holding back even more than what the law specifies.

He writes that there are things that fall under attorney-client privilege, deliberative process privilege work, product privilege, the sort of thing that our discussions internally within an administration or with others that may be the sort of thing that Congress didn't want to have held back, that the Justice Department believes they can keep private. He writes, although the act broadly categorizes items required to be produced, the act does not include language expressly requiring the department to produce privileged materials.

So, let's watch and see if there are Democrats, especially on Capitol Hill, that take issue with that. That's the sort of thing that there could be much litigation over to try and get more out of these documents that are being posted on the Justice Department website.

Now, the last thing, Jake, on page three of Blanche's letter, he talks about the scope of the group of victims and people whose names are redacted and whose faces may be blacked out in this compendium. He says that the Justice Department reached out to representatives of victims and asked for others to come forward.

[18:05:03]

In all, there were 1,200 names of victims and their relatives who are redacted and any other information that would identify those people in these files, including their images, that too is going to be redacted.

So, that's what we're looking at here, a lot taken out by the Justice Department and a lot more to come. Jake?

TAPPER: I want to bring in CNN's Chief White House Correspondent Kaitlan Collins. Kaitlan, the White House is claiming maximum transparency, and I see a number of administration officials tweeting out the picture of Bill Clinton in the hot tub with Epstein. Do you think that what we've seen so far is maximum transparency?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, Jake, they're touting that, but they did not mention in the statement they put out alongside this release tonight that their hand was forced on this by two lawmakers on Capitol Hill who led the way on this, and then obviously had a few Republicans join with them to succeed in having this bill become law.

And I'll tell you, Jake, that we are seeing response to Katelyn's point there already from a Democrat who helped author this bill. Ro Khanna is responding tonight saying that what the administration has released fails to comply with the law that he and Thomas Massie authored here, which is what led the way on that discharge petition. He talks about how, in one document, he says, 119 pages of grand jury testimony was completely redacted. And Ro Khanna is saying that does not comply with the law, as they stated it, and as they are demanding what has to be released by that law that the president himself signed after it was passed by the House and by the Senate, and it doesn't comply.

And so that's the question here of how they're going to seek to take that up, what the next steps are. They had been threatening legal action if they didn't get everything. And Ro Khanna cones seems to be saying that they know for a fact they did not get everything in part of this release. And so that's the question in terms of what happens next here as Todd Blanche was laying out in his letter that they still have more stuff to come before the end of the year. But you're right, Jake, from the political perspective here, obviously, there have been demands for this information to be out there, not just from lawmakers on Capitol Hill, but from some of the survivors themselves.

I've spoken with a bunch of them who said they wanted this information to be released. The White House has spent, you know, the last two hours since this came out highlighting those pictures of former President Bill Clinton alongside women whose faces are redacted or Ghislaine Maxwell or other prominent figures, including Jeffrey Epstein in these images and in this release.

Obviously, they're using that even though Bill Clinton has not been accused of wrongdoing in this and he's denied knowing anything about Jeffrey Epstein's heinous crimes and said that he didn't talk to him actually for the last 20 years before his death. But whenever there's a picture of the president or anything like that, they obviously use it and downplay it and also point to his denials as well, Jake.

And so, you know, one thing that I talked to Ro Khanna about previously was he said we don't care if it's a Democrat or Republican. Everything should be released. It's not a political basis. They want any powerful figures who were in Jeffrey Epstein's orbit to be known. And so that's still the question of the full extent of what this release today looks like.

TAPPER: All right, Kaitlan Collins and Katelyn Polantz, thanks so much. And don't miss Kaitlan on her show, The Source with Kaitlan Collins. Tonight, she's going to be joined by Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna, who's on the House Oversight Committee and was one of the two lawmakers that authored the bill that required today's release of Epstein documents. That's tonight and 9:00 Eastern, only on CNN.

Joining us now is Annie Farmer. Annie and her sister survived Epstein's abuse. She's now a licensed psychologist. Also joining us as Lauren Hersh, the national director for World Without Exploitation.

Annie, this is a heavy day, a momentous day, but a heavy day, a heavy week. How are you feeling?

ANNIE FARMER, JEFFREY EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: There is a lot of anxiety coming in today for many of us survivors that have been involved in this process. But I have to say it has been an emotional day in a way that I was not expecting. You know, my sister, Maria Farmer, reported Epstein and his crimes in 1996. We've been saying that over and over again.

And part of what was released today was an official FBI form, and I think it was an FD-71 dated September 3rd, 1996 with my sisters -- some of my sister's report. It was labeled under child pornography and it described Epstein stealing photos of myself at the age of 16, of my younger sister, who was 12 at the time. And just to see it in writing and to know that they had this document this entire time and how many people were harmed after that date, it just -- you know, we've been saying it over and over, but to see it in black and white that way has been very emotional.

I'm with Maria today. I know she felt a tremendous amount of relief and redemption, but also sorrow in thinking about, you know, people like Virginia Giuffre, who are not here to see this and be a part of really forcing the government to be transparent finally about this case.

[18:10:03]

TAPPER: So, Annie, I mean, just so people know what -- this is the document that you're talking about. It is the 1996 complaint that your sister made to the FBI about Epstein. She alleged that he stole nude and partially nude photographs of her underage sisters constituting child pornography. And as we know, law enforcement failed to act on that complaint in 1996. She's followed up on this. She sued in response. You've sued over what you experienced.

Maria, in a statement has said, this is amazing, thank you for believing me. I feel redeemed. This is one of the best days of my life. Of course, it's mixed with the fact that I'm devastated, but all the other little girls, like Virginia who were harmed, because the FBI didn't do their job. I'm crying for two reasons. I want everyone to know that I'm shedding tears of joy for myself, but also tears of sorrow for all the other victims that the FBI failed.

Looking at this document, I can feel I'm sure just a fraction of the emotion you feel because you think of like if only they took this seriously, how many innocent girls would not have been harmed if only they took this seriously? But it is vindication. It is something right, Annie?

FARMER: Oh, it's huge. Yes. I mean, and I still have big questions about whether it was, you know, did they not take it seriously or were they protecting Epstein because of whatever relationship he had with the government, right? Like there's just so many questions and why we hope for, again, more transparency. But, yes, this is really, really significant to many of us.

TAPPER: It reminds me also of the young woman who went to the FBI and complained about Dr. Larry Nassar at Michigan State who was molesting all those gymnasts and was also not taken seriously. Think of all the pain that could have been avoided.

Annie, some of your fellow survivors have not been happy with the way that the Democrats on the House Oversight Committee have been releasing information and photographs, not necessarily with enough of a heads up for the survivors, sometimes with context, important, context missing, et cetera. I imagine it's kind of triggering to not be given proper warning. What are you even hearing from other survivors about the way that these documents have been released by Democrats on House Oversight?

FARMER: Yes. I mean, I'd say actually I'd like to speak more broadly because I think that similar to how things were released today. You know, just the government I'd say has not done a good job of communicating with victims throughout this process. You know, we did not know what to expect from today. I don't think it would've been difficult from someone from the DOJ to reach out to prepare us a little bit more about how this was planned to be rolled out. But we had no information and we are literally just learning of things like everyone else.

And that goes as also is true for, you know, some of the things that have come from the House Oversight Committee and there has been communication, and I think they have made some efforts to try and rectify those processes, because, yes, it is triggering. And there's just a way in which it's hard to focus on anything right now with all of this going on. I think many of us are just -- are feeling, you know, really on edge and worn out. It's -- you know, we have regular lives. People are trying to, you know, go to doctor's appointments, take care of their children, you know, do regular life holiday things, and it's just a serious wait to always, you know, not know what's coming next.

So, I think, you know, there are things like victims advocates for a reason. I know the government employs them. I don't understand why no one is using them right now.

TAPPER: I hope you feel the support of the American people behind you, Annie, because so many of us are just behind you all the way.

Lauren, how do officials in Congress and the Justice Department strike the right balance when it comes to protecting the survivors and their identities while also releasing as much information about this case as possible to the public? Because some of the documents we're seeing released are just a hundred pages of redaction. And, obviously, I don't want the names of survivors released, but like a hundred pages of redaction, that's a lot.

LAUREN HERSH, NATIONAL DIRECTOR, WORLD WITHOUT EXPLOITATION: It sure is, Jake. I think the survivors have been really clear about what they want to see. I think they have said that they want all of the files released and they want redactions for victim identifying information. That's very different than document after document after document of full redactions. And they also want to see the names of people who have caused harm on both sides. They don't care if they're names of people who represent the left, the right, the center. They don't care. For them, this is not about politics. This is about pain, and this is about people.

And so it's really time to expose those who have caused tremendous harm and begin holding them accountable.

[18:15:05]

TAPPER: Lauren Hersh, thank you for your presence and your advocacy. Annie Farmer, to you and your sisters, I mean, sending you all the love and support from me and my staff here at CNN, as we have. Thank you and I hope you're able to have a Merry Christmas.

FARMER: Thank you so much, Jake.

TAPPER: We'll have much more on the Epstein files release as our team digs through the documents. I'm going to be joined live by the top Democrat on the House Oversight Committee, which is also investigating Epstein, of course.

Plus, we're learning new details into how Reddit and a Good Samaritan helped investigators identify and track down the suspect in that deadly shooting at Brown University. Those details next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our National Lead, new details on how two manhunts for ultimately the same suspect came to an end. Investigators now focused on uncovering a motive after finding the suspect in both the Brown University shooting and the murder of an MIT professor who was found -- and the suspect was found dead at a storage facility in New Hampshire.

CNN's Danny Freeman reports for us now crucial tips from a custodian and a post on Reddit helped break the case wide open.

[18:20:06]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MAYOR BRETT SMILEY (D-PROVIDENCE, RI): Our Providence neighbors can finally breathe a little easier.

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Tonight, relief across New England as two manhunts came to a dramatic close. The man suspected of opening fire on a Brown University classroom and killing an MIT professor identified as 48-year-old Claudio Neves Valente, found dead Thursday evening in a storage facility in New Hampshire with a self-inflicted gunshot wound.

CHIEF OSCAR PEREZ, PROVIDENCE POLICE DEPARTMENT: It was all about groundwork, public assistance, interviews of individuals, and good old fashioned policing.

FREEMAN: After hundreds of tips and several leads, police got two big breaks. First, a Reddit post flagged to investigators, which read in part, I'm being dead serious. The police need to look into a gray Nissan with Florida plates, possibly a rental. That was the car he was driving. Then this person who investigators said was in proximity to their suspect on the day of the shooting came forward with key details, including information about the suspect's voice, his appearance, his car, and even a confrontation where the man asked the suspect, your car is back there. Why are you circling the block, according to a police affidavit.

PETER NERONHA, RHODE ISLAND ATTORNEY GENERAL: I remember last night watching his interview and he blew this case right open. He blew it open.

FREEMAN: Once they had the description of the man and the rental car, pieces started to fall into place, including a connection to the murder of MIT Professor Nuno Loureiro outside of Boston. LEAH B. FOLEY, U.S. ATTORNEY FOR DISTRICT OF MASSACHUSETTS: There is a video footage of him entering an apartment building in the location of the professor's apartment.

FREEMAN: The car was eventually found abandoned in New Hampshire at a storage facility where Neves Valente rented multiple units.

NERONHA: There was evidence that was observed from outside the car that matched our crime scenes, meaning mask, clothing, satchel, which you can see on that video.

FREEMAN: Inside one of the units, authorities recovered two nine millimeter Glocks, high capacity magazines and a bulletproof vest.

The suspect was a Portuguese national who once went to Brown more than two decades ago, but didn't graduate, and who studied at the same Portuguese university when the slain MIT professor was there, but it's still unclear if the two knew each other. Law enforcement officials tell CNN, they do believe Neves Valente targeted Loureiro but do not believe he specifically targeted any of the victims of the Brown University shooting, but Providence's mayor telling CNN Friday they're not done searching for a motive.

SMILEY: We won't give up in trying to answer those questions. I think the Providence community, the Brown community really needs to know that in order to get true closure.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FREEMAN (on camera): And, Jake, one last thing I'll add, we actually just got new information about when the authorities believe that the suspect here actually died. According to the Office of the Medical Examiner for New Hampshire's Department of Justice, they estimate that Neves Valente actually died back on Tuesday, December 16th, which means he may have been dead for two full days in that storage facility before police ultimately found him. Jake?

TAPPER: Oh wow. Danny Freeman in Providence, Rhode Island, thanks so much.

Another tragic scene this week, of course, was the terrorist attack on Australia's Bondi Beach, an act of horrendous anti-Semitic terror. Coming up next, a closer look at some of the heroes, including bystanders and a police officer who helped that tragedy from being even worse.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:25:00]

TAPPER: In our World Lead, a big reward today for the brave bystander who wrestled a gun away from one of the Bondi Beach shooters. While still in the hospital, Ahmed Al Ahmed received a check worth $1.6 million, all donations from people around the world wanting to show their support. Another brave soul exchanged gunfire with the second attacker and CNN's Lynda Kinkade reports now for us on the Bondi Beach cop being hailed a hero.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LYNDA KINKADE, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): This is the officer who bravely helped end the Bondi Beach massacre while the gunman looked the other way focused on shooting at the crowd gathered to celebrate Hanukkah. This officer in plain clothes and armed only with a handgun moved in to take out the father and son attackers, named by Australian Media as Detective Senior Constable Cesar Barraza, a 15-year veteran of the New South Wales Police.

In videos showing different angles of the same moment, we can see how the final minutes of the attack unfolded on Sunday.

Here, you see the father, Sajid Akram, first, he's tackled behind by an unarmed bystander, father of two Ahmed Al Ahmed, who wrestles a rifle from him. Then as he moves away, someone throws something at him.

One minute later, he's rejoined his son on the bridge. From behind, we see Detective Barraza moving in, taking a defensive position near a tree and taking aim. And then it's too graphic to show, but 50-year- old Sajid Akram is shot and falls to the ground. His son, Naveed, returns fire in Barraza's direction before the young suspect gets taken down by another bullet. It's unclear if Barraza also fired that shot.

Analysis of the footage shows Barraza was located nearly 150 feet away from the gunman, a tough shot on a handgun for even the most experienced marksman.

[18:30:00]

Back in 2009, a young Barraza appeared in a reality T.V. show called Recruits.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My name is Ces Barraza. I'm 26. And I want to be a police officer because I hate crime.

KINKADE: Total dedication shown again 16 years later, the detective seen here as colleagues give CPR to the attacker. While he is not been officially named by police, he has been applauded for his action.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am incredibly proud of the officer who's been identified, as I am of every police officer who was there on that day.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KINKADE (on camera): As the investigation continues, we've heard more and more stories of selfless bravery, people putting their own lives on the line to bring the attack to an end. 15 people were killed and the surviving gunman now faces 59 charges, including murder and terrorism.

The detective's actions have been credited and have left a lasting mark on Bondi Beach and the people he swore to protect. Lynda Kinkade, CNN.

TAPPER: All right. Thanks to our friend, Lynda Kinkade for that report.

My next guest is the top Democrat on the House Oversight Committee and said today he would explore legal action if the Justice Department did not release all of the Epstein files. So, what does he think of today's release? We'll ask ranking member Congressman Robert Garcia of California, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:35:00]

TAPPER: In our Law and Justice Lead today, the co-author of legislation requiring the Epstein files release, Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna of California, says he's, quote, disappointed with what the Justice Department has made public today, which is not all of the files. His Republican counterpart, Congressman Thomas Massie, agrees posting on X just moments ago that the release, quote, grossly fails to comply with both the spirit and the letter of the law, unquote.

Joining us now, Democrat from California and the ranking Democrat on the House Oversight Committee, Congressman Robert Garcia. So, Congressman, you posted on X saying that you and your team are doing a major review of the documents, adding, quote, it's clear that this is not a full release. What stands out to you of what's been released or what has not?

REP. ROBERT GARCIA (D-CA): Well, first, I think we should be very clear, this is absolutely breaking the law. I mean, they have not produced actually what they were required to do, which was all the files by today in a way that was searchable for the public, and that is not what's the case. What we have essentially is, one, we have a group of documents that have already been released to the public.

And so there could be even more than half of the documents we're reviewing right now have already been released. This includes court documents, it includes public video that's already been released to the public. It includes other civil case documents that are in there, the prison footage from Epstein, Ghislaine, Maxwell's testimony. And all of that information, including about 33,000 pages that were initially released to the Oversight Committee are all in the public record. That already does not count from new information.

Then we have of what appears to be new, including some photos and other documents. Those are highly redacted and we don't really have any explanation as to why they've been redacted or what is actually there in those documents. And so we have right now are what we're seeing is not transparency. This is not what the law passed. This does not mean the subpoena that the Oversight Committee has in place. What it is, it is defying the Congress and, quite frankly, defy what the president signed into law in releasing all of these files. And so the review will continue. They're now saying they're going to try to get these documents over the next few weeks. In our initial estimation, and, again, this is just -- this is our estimation right now, it could be that they still -- we're only getting about 10 percent of what the DOJ rightly has. And of that 10 percent, 5 percent of that has already been released, and the other 5 percent is highly redacted. So, we're getting very little so far. We hope to get more in the days ahead. But this is Pam Bondi. Donald Trump should release all the files today and immediately.

TAPPER: There's a lot that's been redacted. The White House seems to be arguing that what's been redacted is just to protect the names of the survivors.

GARCIA: Look, I think we have to obviously see what the redactions actually are. At the end of the day, redacting names of survivors and victims absolutely should be the case, and I'm hopeful that they've done that in a way that's responsible. At the same time, we don't know what else is being redacted there. And so we've got to also talk to folks that we know have worked to put these documents together. We have to ensure they're not just redacting the names of those that could have been either co-conspirators or names of men who have abused women and girls. So, that information is going to be critical in the days and the weeks ahead.

But we also need to be clear at this moment, I've been on the phone with Jamie Raskin and the judiciary team most of the day. And we agree we are going to likely have to take legal action if the Trump administration continues to stonewall, continues to not provide these full transcripts, and, clearly, they don't have a real interest in transparency. The searchable bar that they've included that's supposed to be searchable for the public is not even functioning correctly. And so this is not a real release. This is continuing a cover that's been going on now for months.

TAPPER: Democratic Congressman Robert Garcia of California, thank you so much, I appreciate it, sir.

We are just a few hours away from President Trump speaking in the key battleground state of North Carolina. He's already hinted that the economy's going to be a focus of his remarks tonight. Is it going to be the same message Americans heard from the president at the White House earlier this week? Our panel weighs in.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:00]

TAPPER: Our Politics Lead now, today at the White House, President Trump announced drug price agreements with nine pharmaceutical companies, dubbing it most favorite nation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I'm going to call in the insurance companies that are making so much money and they have to make less, a lot less, and maybe we can have reasonable healthcare without having to cut them out and let it all go awry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Interesting. Tonight, he is staying on message with affordability with a speech later this evening in North Carolina.

My panel joins me now. Mike Dubke, he's tackling drug prices.

MIKE DUBKE, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Yes.

TAPPER: And he's talking about going after insurance companies. There is, of course, this looming problem that is about to happen with the Obamacare premiums about to -- the subsidies about to expire and 24 million Americans are going to be impacted in a matter of days.

DUBKE: But the -- yes, and we can talk about that, but these are two separate issues. So, on drugs --

TAPPER: That's all healthcare costs.

DUBKE: It is all healthcare.

TAPPER: Yes.

DUBKE: But you know, there's hospitalization, there's insurance, there's drug pricing. I mean, there's a lot that goes into healthcare. But this TrumpRx and getting the number of drugs that are going into the system down at lower prices, I mean, even Mark Cuban, who had a very similar idea to this, was praising the president on this. So, I think that's good.

The other part of this was the announcement of the billion -- or the millions of dollars that they're going to put into the American healthcare system, the pharmaceutical industries, and then they're adding ingredients into the strategic reserves. So, there were more parts to this. But I think this is a good thing for the United States.

KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think it's a good thing. The question is, who is going to benefit and what and when?

[18:45:01]

Because the subsidies are expiring soon and those bills come due in January. And for a lot of people, they're going to have to be deciding, can you have health insurance or not? And so, is lowering these costs is bringing in the insurance companies. How is that going to affect you if you're a family of four, you're working, you know, working class family and you've decided, hey, we cant afford to have the same kind of coverage.

So sure, it's good, but as always with Trump, the devil will be in the details. TAPPER: Yeah. I mean, I guess the issue, though, of course, is that

affordability is going to be the big issue of next year. President Trump is doing he's taking it on in his way. And I guess the question is, if you have rising prices, the Democratic option seems to be have government help subsidize for people who are having trouble affording it, affording it. President Trump seems to be jawboned the industry leaders and try to get them to bring prices down.

DUBKE: And raise wages. Well, but let's remember what the -- what the Trump tax cuts, the no tax, no taxes on tips and overtime. Senior citizens are going to benefit from the -- from the legislation passed this summer. So, I mean raising wages at the same time is a way to help Americans and the affordability.

TAPPER: I'm just saying different ways to address it.

DUBKE: Absolutely.

Something else I want to bring up. There's a lot of infighting in the Republican Party right now, and it was on full display at a Turning Point USA conference. Ben Shapiro took the stage when it came to this prevalence of antisemitism on the right. It exists on the left, of course, as well, but on the right. And Ben Shapiro named some names.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEN SHAPIRO, TALK SHOW SHOT: If Candace Owens decides to spend every day since the murder of Charlie Kirk to spew absolutely baseless trash implicating everyone from French intelligence to Mossad to members of TPUSA in Charlie's murder, or a cover up in that murder, then we as people with a microphone, have a moral obligation to call that out by name.

So, no Tucker Carlson, it is not an excuse to go silent on Candace targeting of TPUSA.

The same holds true of Megyn Kelly, a person I consider a friend characterizing candace as a young mother and thus shying away from condemning her actions or fibbing about them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: What's your take?

DUBKE: He's not wrong.

TAPPER: Yeah.

DUBKE: I mean, I don't know what else to say. Theres no room for antisemitism in the Republican Party on the right or in the Democratic Party or on the left. He's not wrong.

FINNEY: Sure, but I wish we could be more broadly taking on bigotry. We shouldn't do antisemitism. We shouldn't be, you know, demonizing gay people. How about let's not, you know, islamophobia? How about let's deal with, you know, racism and bigotry and sexism, like, let's say that that's -- hate is bad generally.

And I completely agree with you. But again, I wish we could broaden that conversation. And I would welcome more Republicans to that conversation more broadly.

DUBKE: Yeah, I don't know why I want to make a joke about the Coast Guard thinking swastikas were not so bad, but now really bad, but not so bad. But then really, I mean, this is a -- this -- I'm in agreement with you. This is kind of a ridiculous conversation that we're having, but I think Ben Shapiro calling out, standing on that stage and calling people out, that's it takes -- it takes someone standing up and calling it out in public, I think, to move -- to move the ball forward.

TAPPER: It's a brave thing to do because you then have -- are going to get a lot of flack back.

DUBKE: Right, exactly.

TAPPER: We covered yesterday a top aide to Mamdani resigning because of some hideously antisemitic posts on social media from years before Vice President J.D. Vance posted about it. He retweeted comments made by this woman who has since resigned, who for? She had said its important white people feel defeated. And he said something like, you know, people are -- it's amazing how much were just getting used to language like this.

But let's not forget that while Vance takes issue with this, I know friends on the right who are like saying like, why is J.D. Vance? Remember he defended the DOGE employee who said, let's normalize Indian hate, saying like, let's not -- let's not ruin this young man's life for that.

He said the young Republican leaders who sent racist and antisemitic messages on that text chain "Politico" covered their being kids, even though some of them are like up to 40 years old. He's been pretty absent from this Candace Owens, Nick Fuentes debate.

FINNEY: And we shouldn't want our kids talking like that anyway, even if they were just kids, there doesn't mean you can't say it's not appropriate. We shouldn't be raising our kids to think that's appropriate language.

TAPPER: But I think -- I guess the point that my conservative friends are making is it'd be nice if he called that out when it's on the right, as well as on the left.

FINNEY: Absolutely.

TAPPER: You agree?

DUBKE: I agree

FINNEY: Radical agreement.

DUBKE: You are throwing things on this table in this holiday season. That is --

TAPPER: Well, you're agreeing. I'm just -- to bring opportunity to --

DUBKE: Let's talk about the Democrats autopsy.

FINNEY: I was going to say -- he really wants to talk about the.

DUBKE: That's what I really want to talk about. I think it's --

TAPPER: I don't know what it says.

DUBKE: No, neither do we.

FINNEY: Nobody -- neither we.

TAPPER: Should be released.

DUBKE: Release the fires. Release the files.

FINNEY: Radical agreement.

TAPPER: Another thing we all agree on. Thanks, everyone. Merry Christmas to both of you.

It's a little bit nostalgia. A whole lot of fun. The new movie "Anaconda" is coming out on Christmas Day. None other than Paul Rudd is joining us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:54:11]

TAPPER: In our pop culture lead today, "Anaconda", a new movie, hitting theaters on Christmas Day. It stars Paul Rudd and Jack Black. It follows best friends who are set on recreating their all time favorite movie, the cinematic classic "Anaconda", which I'm sure you all know. And when a midlife crisis gives them the push they need, they head deep into the Amazon to commence filming.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Action!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, we need to find the snake for our snake movie.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, that noise

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My anaconda.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We came here to make anaconda. Now we are in it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are snakes around here. I can feel it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What does it feel like?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know, it's just very snakey. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not like a technical term.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Paul Rudd, one of the stars of "Anaconda", joins us now.

Paul, I should say this interview is my Christmas and Hanukkah present to my viewers that they get to enjoy your presence.

[18:55:07]

So, don't disappoint, please?

PAUL RUDD, ACTOR: Well, thank you, Jake, but you've really let down your audience. This is not much of a present, but I appreciate it.

TAPPER: So, the movie looks hysterical. I wasn't given a screener, but it looks unbelievable. You and Jack Black, obviously two of the funniest guys in the world. Is it as fun to film something like this or -- I mean, I know comedy is not easy, right? So, is it -- was it a blast to film?

RUDD: It really was a blast to film. And also getting to work with Steve Zahn and Thandiwe Newton. We play a group of friends. Steve and I played brothers in a movie 30 years ago, and I love him. He's hilarious. He also worked with Jack in saving Silverman years ago, and we met, but we didn't really know her. But it was a really tight knit group.

But I'm such a fan, certainly, of Jack's. I remember seeing him in Bob Roberts.

TAPPER: Oh God. Me too.

RUDD: When that -- it was his first movie and I remember going to the movie theater and I was just entranced. I said, who is that guy? And I have followed Jack's career ever since, and I'm always curious as to what he's doing. I just think -- he is -- there's no one like him.

TAPPER: I actually saw the original "Anaconda", I believe, going by memory now that it has Jon Voight and J-Lo and Ice Cube. This movie is not a sequel. It's not a reboot. It's kind of its own experience.

Tell me about what made you want to join this film? Was it the script? Was it Jack Black? Was it Steve Zahn? Like, how did this happen?

RUDD: Well, you know, the director of this movie made a movie called "The Unbearable Weight of Massive Talent". It was with Nicolas Cage and Pedro Pascal and I loved it. I thought it was a really unique, original, funny movie. Nicolas Cage plays himself and this -- it starts to turn into a bit of a Nicolas Cage movie.

It's a comedy, but it's a little meta, and I thought it was very clever. And, when this -- I read this script, its like, oh, this is these are the guys that made that movie. It had some of the same DNA. I hadn't it was completely unique. This idea of a group of people wanting to do their own reimagining of a film they loved only to have the film start to happen to them as they're making it.

It was so layers of meta, comedy on top of layers. And it was also kind of scary. And it was sweet. It was just something that I hadn't really seen before.

TAPPER: So, I want to just thank you. It's been a tough year for a lot of people all over the world, and this is the second comedy that I've seen that you're providing the world. You did friendship with Tim Robinson earlier this year, which was also quite hilarious. So thanks for that. I assume that was an enjoyable experience as well.

RUDD: That was great. You know, Tim Robinson is another person that I'm just such a huge fan of, and he's so funny and he's singular in his voice. And so that was another -- I remember reading that and thinking, oh, I just want to see Tim Robinson in this movie and be able to get to, you know, be there and, and see it live and in person was a real thrill.

TAPPER: So, as I told you, you and I are in a text chain with two other fellas, Adam and Damon, and where we constantly try to make each other laugh. And Adam and Damon had questions. I asked for them for questions. They are so obscene. I cannot read them.

But you will have to weigh in on the chat, and I'm -- I apologize to the viewers that I can't read those to Paul.

RUDD: It's probably for the best, but I'll be extra obscene in my answers.

TAPPER: "Anaconda" hits --

RUDD: I will reply on it.

TAPPER: "Anaconda" hits theaters on Christmas Day. Paul Rudd, thank you so much. Thanks for -- thanks for all the joy you bring us.

RUDD: Well, I appreciate it, Jake. And let me just say thank you for all you do. You're really doing very noble. Good work and I appreciate you taking the time to -- from your important day job to talk to an idiot like me about big snakes.

TAPPER: Thanks, Paul. Appreciate it.

RUDD: Thank you. Jake.

TAPPER: Tune in for something a little different on CNN tomorrow. Comedian Roy Wood Jr. hosted his "A Very, Very, Very Merry Holiday Special" featuring the United States Air Force Band, comedian Craig Robinson makes an appearance. Singer Jessie James Decker. Look for tomorrow night at 8:00 Eastern on CNN and on the new CNN app.

Then on Sunday on "STATE OF THE UNION", Democratic Congressman Jamie Raskin of Maryland, Republican Senator James Lankford of Oklahoma. That's Sunday at 9:00 a.m. and Noon Eastern only on CNN.

You can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, Threads, Bluesky, X, and on TikTok @jaketapper. You can follow the show on X, Instagram @TheLeadCNN.

If you ever miss an episode of THE LEAD, you can watch the show on the CNN app.

Merry Christmas, happy Hanukkah, happy New Year.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now.