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The Lead with Jake Tapper

FBI E-mails From 2019 Refer To Epstein's "10 Co-Conspirators"; DOJ Says Purported Epstein Letter To Larry Nassar Is "Fake"; Rep. Jake Auchincloss (D-MA), Is Interviewed About U.S. Hits Alleged Drug Vessel In Pacific, Killing One Person; Safety Concerns Weigh On The Future Of Package Shipping. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired December 23, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: The Gen X cross to bear Brad Pot (ph), I will say that.

All right. Well, I guess I'm going to take my very aggressively uncool socks out for Christmas vacation as we grapple with our new generational divides. I will see you all in the New Year. I hope you have a very merry Christmas, very happy holiday.

Thanks to my panel. Really appreciate you guys being here. Don't forget you can stream The Arena live or catch up whenever you want to in the CNN app. Just scan the QR code below. You can also catch up by listening to our podcast, follow us on X and Instagram.

We're at thearenacnn. Fellow millennial, Phil Mattingly, is standing by for "The Lead."

Phil, how tall are your socks?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I so deeply appreciate the OC reference that just kind of made my entire day and week. Thanks so much, Kasie. We'll look for more in "The Arena" later this week.

HUNT: Different mom is 39, OK? My gen Z colleague didn't even get that reference. Merry Christmas.

[17:00:50]

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The Justice Department going out of its way to provide context on this latest round of Epstein files. The Lead starts right now.

Many mentions of the Justice Department of President Trump in this latest release of files related to Jeffrey Epstein. Plus brand new information just coming in about that letter signed by a J Epstein and sent to imprisoned pedophile Larry Nassar. What the Justice Department just said about it.

There's also breaking news in a bizarre disappearance of a nine-year- old girl last seen in disguise while on a multi-state road trip with her mother. The tragic new details just coming in. Plus CNN on and under the water with an incredible look at narco submarines, some of the vessels that the Trump administration has targeted, those controversial and deadly strikes.

Welcome to The Lead. I'm Phil Mattingly in for Jake Tapper. We start with brand new breaking details in our law and justice and lead regarding the tens of thousands of new Epstein files released to the public in the middle of the night. Those files include new disturbing and depraved revelations and notable names. President Trump's name appears several times in this latest batch, including e-mails which reference flight records from dead convicted pedophile Jeffrey Epstein's private jet.

A handwritten letter signed by J Epstein appears to make crude references to Trump in a short 2019 message from jail addressed to convicted sex offender and longtime USA gymnastics team doctor, Larry Nassar. The letter does not explicitly name Trump, but instead says, quote, "Our president also shares our love of young nubile girls." But breaking just a short time ago, the Justice Department coming out to say it has confirmed the Letter is quote "fake." More on that in just a moment.

This is after the Justice Department released a statement earlier this morning saying the document dump contains, quote, "untrue and sensationalist claims against the president." Adding, quote, "if they had a shred of credibility they certainly would have been weaponized against President Trump already." Now we should make very clear Trump has not been accused of or charged with any criminal wrongdoing related to the Epstein investigation. Meanwhile, critics of the Justice Department's rollout continue to question the redactions. Internal FBI messages reference 10 conspirators but several of the names are blacked out.

Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer says this raises quote, "more questions than answers." Another eyebrow raising string of e-mails involves someone named A repeatedly corresponding with Epstein accomplice Ghislaine Maxwell. The writer is not explicitly identified as Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor, but the former prince was introduced to Epstein in 1999 by Maxwell. One correspondence reveals Maxwell arranged, quote, "girls on -- for A on a 2002 official visit to Peru." In another e-mail written from the British royal family Scottish summer residence in 2001 known as Balmoral, A asked for, quote, "new inappropriate friends."

As for the survivors of this abuse, some are calling for more accountability. Listen to Haley Robson who said she used to be a Trump supporter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HALEY ROBSON, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: I think that Pam Bondi and Kash Patel both need to resign. And I would love to see number four 47 get impeached over this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: We start off with CNN's MJ Lee who has been combing through these files.

MJ, you've been looking into some of the really inconsistent redactions in the latest batch. What do you found?

MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL ENTERPRISE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, as more of these files are coming out there are many questions about what the DOJ is and is not redacting. A couple of examples of some noteworthy redactions that we're seeing, the names, Phil, of Epstein's potential co-conspirators named by federal authorities around Epstein's 2019 arrest. The fact that those names have been blacked out that is being widely criticized and raising a lot of questions. Also names of some government officials including federal prosecutors who were involved in the early criminal investigations into Epstein. This time period of course is of great interest because all of this eventually led to the controversial non prosecution deal that Epstein got in 2008.

[17:05:10]

There are also just some questions about when Trump's name is or isn't redacted. There's an example of one document that did redact Trump's name, but then another posting of that very same document. You can see Trump's name is visible. So meanwhile, obviously, the Trump survivor -- Epstein survivors and victims, excuse me, are also poring over this and asking for more accountability. As you said, you remember there was one Jane Doe who we spoke with yesterday who said, my name appears everywhere in these files.

We checked back in with her today. Her name is still in the file. She hasn't gotten an update from the DOJ. But interestingly, we found one example of a document where her name was in the file yesterday, and as of today, it has been removed.

MATTINGLY: It's interesting the kind of interactions, or lack thereof in some cases between survivors and the Justice Department, when you view it through the lens of the Justice Department's response after several hours today to that letter that appeared to be from Jeffrey Epstein to Larry Nassar, what exactly happened here?

LEE: Yes, a letter from one pedophile to another, maybe. You know, this caught a lot of people's attention. This was a letter that was signed by Jay Epstein sent to the convicted sex offender Larry Nassar the same month that Epstein died by suicide in 2019. It doesn't explicitly say the word Trump, but it does say, quote, "our president." Specifically, it says, "Our president also shares our love of young nouvelle girls."

The DOJ, just within the last hour says this letter is fake. They said that the handwriting there actually doesn't match Epstein's handwriting. And as a part of that announcement, the DOJ said this is a reminder that just because a document is released by the Department of Justice does not make the allegations or claims within the document factual.

Now, another disclosure I just want to get at that really was making the rounds today has to do with flight records and Donald Trump January 2020 e-mail where an Assistant U.S. Attorney from SCNY says that there are flight records showing that Trump, quote, "traveled on Epstein's private jet many more times than previously has been reported or what were aware, and that Trump apparently was listed as a passenger on at least eight flights between 1993 and 1996."

Just as a broader note on what the DOJ is saying about Trump and the Epstein files, they're saying that some documents contain untrue and sensationalist claims made against Trump that were submitted to the FBI right before the 2020 election, but they are releasing them anyway for the sake of transparency.

MATTINGLY: Because the law says they have to.

LEE: Yes.

MATTINGLY: It's also an important note that they might have kept in. Continued great reporting as always. MJ Lee, thanks so much.

Well, joining us now, investigative reporter for the Miami Herald, Julie K. Brown. She's been covering Epstein for years.

Julie, there are even more redactions in this latest batch. We just heard from MJ Lee about some of them, including the blacked out names of co-conspirators. What's really stood out to you in this batch?

JULIE K. BROWN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, MIAMI HERALD: Well, there's a lot of redactions that you have to kind of scratch your head at, starting with the names of the prosecutors who helped put together Epstein sweetheart deal back in 2007 in Florida. And these names are important because we need to understand and the victims certainly want accountability for why and how Epstein got away with these crimes for so long. Remember, if they had prosecuted him federally back then, then it would be likely that there would be far, far less victims. So it's important to understand how he got that deal. Number one.

The other aspect with the co-conspirators is it is possible that some of those names that are redacted and labeled as co-conspirators could be victims because a couple of these women who were his assistants early on were considered co-conspirators. In fact, four of them were named in the non-prosecution agreement in 2007 as being involved and they were not to be prosecuted. They also got immunity. So it is possible that some of the names that -- not all of them, but some of them could be women who are now saying that they were victims of Epstein as well. So that could be part of why they are redacted.

There are nevertheless there are some men who were absolutely involved. I've spoken to victims within the past couple of months who have told me that they were directed to have sex with some of Epstein's friends, acquaintances. So we are looking in this. Of course, the survivors are demanding that the DOJ not redact any names of anybody other than, you know, what they're supposed to under this law.

[17:10:01]

MATTINGLY: Yes, it's very critical context about the redacted co- conspirators. I want to flash back though to FBI Director Kash Patel during a September Senate hearing, is being questioned by Senator John Kennedy. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): You've seen most of the files. Who, if anyone, did Epstein traffic these young women to besides himself?

KASH PATEL, FBI DIRECTOR: Himself. There is no credible information. None. If there were, I would bring the case yesterday that he trafficked to other individuals. And the information we have, again is limited.

KENNEDY: So the answer is no one? PATEL: For the information that we have.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Does that answer diverge from the idea that there are other co-conspirators, potentially 10 or somewhere around there, as were redacted in these documents?

BROWN: Well, it strikes me as that he wasn't really answering the question or was trying to evade a real direct answer to that question because obviously there have been women that have come forward and have identified some of these men and even to the FBI because we know some of their names. One of the person's name is Les Wexner, for example. He is named in these documents. And I have been told by at least one victim that he was involved in this.

Of course, he has denied it. There's no evidence to substantiate that that we know of right now. But it, I guess it begs the question about whether the DOJ really care to further investigate some of these allegations that were made by these victims or whether they just wanted the case to go away.

MATTINGLY: Before the DOJ came out and said the Nasser letter we've been talking about was fake, you made clear you had doubts about the authenticity of the letter. Explain why.

BROWN: Well, it didn't look like his handwriting. I mean, to me it just looked like a woman's handwriting. I mean, we've seen enough e- mails of his now, he didn't speak like that. He was a horrible misspeller, for one thing. We know that.

And it just didn't sound like him at all. The whole thing didn't look right. Just based on my knowledge of the way he spoke and the, you know, even in his writings, we didn't have a lot of examples of his -- of his handwriting. But it just -- the whole thing sounded kind of odd to me. Didn't make sense.

MATTINGLY: Yes, it was really important context as we all try and dig through and make sense of what's being released by the thousands over the course of the last couple of batches.

Julie K. Brown, as always, extraordinarily helpful in that process. Thanks so much.

BROWN: Thank you. MATTINGLY: Well, much more ahead as we sift through those thousands of Epstein documents released by the Justice Department overnight. Up next on The Lead, an attorney for nearly 20 Epstein victims joins us for reaction. Plus, the Supreme Court just handed President Trump a rare defeat and a decision on whether he can deploy the National Guard to Chicago. We have details. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:16:36]

MATTINGLY: We're back with breaking news in our law and justice lead. California officials just announced that Melodee Buzzard, the nine year old girl who's been missing for two months, has been found dead. Buzzard, who's from Southern California, was last seen with her mother in early October driving through several western states, at some points disguised wearing a wig. But when her mother returned home after about a week, the little girl was no longer with her. CNN Josh Campbell is in Los Angeles.

And Josh, officials in Santa Barbara County are holding a news conference right now offering that devastating update. What more are we learning?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you know, in these missing person cases, all of us, including law enforcement, hopes for a better outcome. This is a tragic outcome. We're now learning that this missing nine-year-old, her remains were indeed found deceased. A law enforcement source told me earlier that it was discovered in Utah. Just moments ago, authorities in Santa Barbara, California gave an update indicating that it was a couple that was out taking photos in a rural section of Utah that discovered remains called authorities that then led to this connection, as authorities say, between the remains and this missing girl.

Now, we're also learning that it's her mother, Ashlee Buzzard, who has now been taken into custody. Authorities say that that is for murder. We're waiting for additional information on specific charges. Authorities did just lay out some information about evidence. They say that a lot of this came down to forensics, they say the mother hasn't been cooperative since the start of this investigation.

But it came down, in their view, to forensics, to digital evidence as well as ballistics. They believe, and this is, forgive me, this is grim, they believe that this young girl died from gunshot wounds. They recovered items there at the scene, compared that to items found at the residence, and they believe that that was a part of the connection that they are making here. Now we are trying to determine whether Ashlee Buzzard has an attorney. Again, as I mentioned, she is now in police custody.

And as you laid out there, Phil, this was a really bizarre case from the beginning because authorities said that this started, you could see on your screen there, this route that they had traveled over several days, nearly 100 miles and then back. But once the mother had returned, her daughter wasn't with her. It was actually the daughter's school that called police and said, hey, can you go do a welfare check? We haven't heard from this child in some time. Authorities say that the mother wasn't cooperative from the start.

Again, the update now, she has now been taken into custody after, again, the tragic news that the remains of this young girl were found in Utah.

MATTINGLY: Josh, acknowledging early stages, but did officials give any idea of a potential motive here?

CAMPBELL: Nothing as of yet. And it's been difficult because they say the mother has not been cooperative. In fact, they said the sheriff there in Santa Barbara said, absent the cooperation, we had to actually rely on this other trove of evidence. And so that is not something they haven't released yet. It will be interesting to see, particularly as they describe digital evidence that they found, whether there was any indication, was there any type of motive, some type of writing that was located on her devices that we're waiting to hear here.

But it's clear, based on what authorities are saying, that she took steps to try to hide their identity. Look on your screen there. Authorities say that as they were traveling, they were both donning wigs. Authorities say that at times the license plates on the rental car were changed. The sheriff said moments ago, sometimes what they found, evidence of the rental car backing into certain places where they believe that the California plates were swapped out for New York state plates.

And so again, the mother allegedly trying to, you know, cover their tracks as they -- as they traveled and then returning to California. But we don't know the full body of evidence. We expect that now that she is in police custody, once we actually hear of a formal charge or multiple charges, they will lay out exactly what they found.

[17:20:12]

But certainly a significant development here. We've been hearing from the young girl's grandparents who say, you know, that they've obviously been grieving since the disappearance. They now say that they were contacted today by authorities notifying them this was her paternal grandmother saying that the police told her that the mother is in custody. Sadly, the child has been recovered deceased.

MATTINGLY: Yes, big question. Still in need of answers. A bizarre story. Tragic end. Josh Campbell, appreciate the reporting. Thank you.

CAMPBELL You bet.

MATTINGLY: Well, they travel just beneath the surface of the water and can be very difficult to detect. How narco submarines are playing a major role in drug trafficking. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: In our law and justice lead, new reaction to the more than 30,000 documents released overnight from the Justice Department related to the case against deceased pedophile Jeffrey Epstein. Joining me now is Jack Scarola. He's an attorney for nearly 20 Epstein survivors. Really appreciate your time.

Just to start with, given the scale of these multiple releases, what stands out to you in this most recent batch?

[17:25:09]

JACK SCAROLA, ATTORNEY FOR EPSTEIN VICTIMS: What's important to understand is that we have still seen only a small fragment of the total documents that have been acknowledged to exist in the federal files. There have been public statements asserting that there are over a million pages of documents. We have seen roughly 10 percent of that million pages. And as Julie Brown commented earlier, there are significant redactions from what has been produced that are absolutely inexplicable. Why prosecutors' names should be redacted from key sections of the documents relating to the circumstances of the negotiation of the sweetheart deal and the concealment of that deal from victims just makes no sense at all.

It is clearly in direct violation of the congressional mandate received by the Department of Justice and it is from the victim's perspective, a continuation of their victimization. The slow drip release of documents is Chinese water torture for these women who have been terribly victimized by Epstein and are being revictimized over the course of the last two decades by the federal government.

MATTINGLY: Has there been any communication, have you had any communication or outreach from the Justice Department as the initial stages of this process have rolled out?

SCAROLA: I have. I have been in communication with the Justice Department on multiple occasions. The most recent was a letter that I received on Thursday, late morning, just before noon, the day before the mandated release of these documents. And that letter requested that I inform the Justice Department of those victims who chose to maintain their privacy rights and have their names redacted from the release that was scheduled the very next day. We were given until 5:00 on Thursday in order to respond or the Justice Department informed us that it would be presumed that the victims' rights to privacy were being waived.

Now that just turns the entire system upside down. These victims have an absolute statutory right to privacy that should be presumed to be asserted by them unless there is a clear affirmative waiver. And we know that principle was significantly violated by the release of names that never should have been released. Now there have been some corrections that have been made, but the mistakes never should have been made to begin with. The Justice Department has had months since they claim to have completed a review of these files in July and concluded that no further prosecutions were warranted.

Now in order to reach that conclusion, there needed to have been a thorough review of the entire file. How it could take five more months to get things in a position where appropriate disclosures could be made is inexcusable. Absolutely inexcusable.

MATTINGLY: Certainly one of many very large questions that are outstanding. Jack Scarola, really appreciate your time. Thank you.

SCAROLA: Thank you very much. Appreciate your continued focus on these important issues.

MATTINGLY: Well, a Mexican Navy medical plane crashes into Galveston Bay in Texas. A bystander didn't hesitate to help in the emergency response, rescuing one woman from the wreckage. That bystander joins The Lead coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: In our World Lead, the U.S. Military conducted a strike Monday night against what they're calling a, "low profile vessel" that was allegedly trafficking drugs in the eastern Pacific Ocean. One person was killed according to the U.S. Southern Command. The military has been conducting boat strikes since early September as part of a broader military buildup and counter narcotics campaign.

But that fight to track and disrupt drug trafficking is now entering a new phase. And that's because as CNN's Patrick Oppmann explains, the smuggling is happening more and more beneath the ocean surface.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): U.S. Coast Guardsmen raced to board a so called narco sub in eastern Pacific with 17,000 pounds of cocaine aboard. They don't have a moment to lose. Drug traffickers will often flood and sink the vessels before law enforcement can seize the illicit cargo they transport.

Since this 2019 incident, officials say the phenomenon of DIY subs built to traffic narcotics and the distances they travel have increased dramatically.

JOSE FERREIRA, MARITIME ANALYSIS AND OPERATIONS CENTRE: This is a modus operandi that the criminal groups are now using a lot of more and more. It's clearly a growing threat towards Europe and it's very hard for us not just to detect but also to interdict.

[17:35:04]

OPPMANN (voice-over): Experts say narco subs travel just under the surface of the water and are painted to match the color of the ocean. They're often built in mangroves near the ocean in South America, where thick tree cover hides them from law enforcement and satellite surveillance.

Increasingly, the narco subs are traveling to new markets thousands of miles from where they are assembled. Last month, this narco sub believed to have crossed the Atlantic from South America was seized off the coast of Portugal with nearly two tons of cocaine aboard. Portuguese police arrested the four man crew aboard. Even though narco subs can cost up to $1 million to build, Maritime authorities say they are often discarded after only one successful drug run. In January, police discovered this sunken sub mysteriously abandoned near the coast of Spain.

Police divers managed to raise the damaged sub and tote it into port as potential evidence. Increasingly, alleged smugglers transporting drugs by sea face a new threat. In October, the U.S. military destroyed the suspected narco sub in the Caribbean.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: That was a drug carrying submarine built specifically for the transportation of massive amounts of drugs. Just so you understand, this was not an innocent group of people. I don't know too many people that have submarines.

OPPMANN (voice-over): Two alleged crew members of the sub were killed in the strike. Two survivors were transported to their home countries where they were released for lack of evidence. The threat of U.S. strikes is an added danger to an already risky profession.

HENRY SHULDINER, INSIGHT CRIME: There's many risks that are that can happen, whether it's a mechanical failure, whether it's rough seas, you know, bad weather that they encounter. Law enforcement, you know, if something goes wrong, there's almost no margin for survival.

OPPMANN (voice-over): But once again, the smuggler's knack for adaptation may be one step ahead. In July, the Colombian navy seized what they say was an unmanned narco sub equipped with a star like dish. Soon, counter narcotics officials say drug cartels may deliver their dangerous contraband across oceans by remote control.

Patrick Oppmann, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: Our thanks to Patrick Oppmann for that report.

Joining me now is Democratic Congressman Jake Auchincloss from Massachusetts. Congressman, before you were in Congress, you served in the Marines. You commanded a counter narcotics special operations unit in Panama, as well as other drug interdiction efforts across Central America. Your expertise here is unique and goes beyond just your capacity on Capitol Hill. The challenge here to track and stop drug smuggling operations, does this administration address the scale of that challenge?

REP. JAKE AUCHINCLOSS (D-MA): This administration doesn't actually care about the drugs. It cares about the oil. They are talking about narco trafficking. They're talking about immigration. They're talking about Maduro. What they actually care about is oil. Venezuela has the world's largest proven oil reserves, probably about 300 billion barrels, 20 percent of the global total.

In 2023, Donald Trump said he wished that in his first administration they had forced a regime change and taken that oil. In his second administration, they are working with Chevron to do so. It's illegal because Congress has not authorized armed conflict in pursuit of those oil reserves.

MATTINGLY: What actual recourse does Congress? And I say this knowing that in a bipartisan manner, there are things that Congress can do if they believe that the administration is acting outside of its authority or its Article 2 authority, what options do you feel like are on the table right now?

AUCHINCLOSS: There's always a triangular struggle between the President, the Congress and public opinion. And two versus one generally wins. Right now, what's happened is that last week, Democrats tried to move two different resolutions on the House floor that would deprive this President of the unilateral latitude to wage armed conflict against Venezuela without congressional authorization. Those failed because congressional Republicans are too afraid to stand up to Donald Trump.

But now what Democrats can do if Congress is losing to the presidency is go and try to make it a two-one fight by galvanizing public opinion. And here the good news is that public opinion is on our side. Americans did not like blood for oil in Iraq 20 years ago. They do not want blood for oil in Venezuela today. That's not just a Democratic issue. That's true of Republicans and Independent voters as well.

MATTINGLY: I want to ask you about the -- the Epstein files, the releases we've seen over the course of the last couple of days. Your colleague, Congressman Robert Garcia of California, calling on the Justice Department's internal watchdog to investigate new revelations that Epstein was first reported to the FBI for alleged sex crimes all the way back in 1996, a decade before an official FBI investigation was opened. Do you -- do you see Congress opening an official probe into the FBI here?

[17:40:10]

AUCHINCLOSS: If necessary. Americans deserve to have confidence that the Department of Justice is independent from the White House. That has been a long standing tradition, really post-Watergate, that helped to buttress the integrity of governance in the eyes of Americans, particularly the integrity of law enforcement. Donald Trump has shredded that firewall.

He has made Pam Bondi really his puppet. And Congress has a significant role to play in forcing an institutional separation so that Americans know that if the FBI is prosecuting an individual, it's because they have a preponderance of evidence that individual broke a law. And they deserve confidence that nobody in this country is going to be above the law and nobody in this country will below the law, and that -- that should be a bipartisan issue.

MATTINGLY: Yes. The Article 1 versus Article 2 element here has defined, I think, this first year of the second term. Congressman Jake Auchincloss, really appreciate your time. Thanks so much.

AUCHINCLOSS: Absolutely. Yes. Merry Christmas.

MATTINGLY: Likewise. Why a survivor of Jeffrey Epstein's abuse who voted for President Donald Trump is now calling for him to be impeached over the handling of the Epstein files. We'll explain next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:45:28]

MATTINGLY: With just two days to go until Christmas, it's possible you're one of the millions of Americans still waiting on a package to arrive. I'm sorry if you are. And while you're looking to see if the delivery truck and driver pull up to your house, one day, you might just be waiting on a drone to drop the package on your doorstep. Here's CNN aviation correspondent, Pete Muntean.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): You are watching what could be the future of deliveries. All you need is a phone to order a drop off from a drone.

ERIC WATSON, HEAD OF SYSTEMS ENGINEERING & SAFETY, ZIPLINE: One of the things we like to say is we're approximating teleportation.

MUNTEAN (voice-over): Eric Watson is the head of systems engineering for Zipline, a drone delivery startup that's taking on goliaths like Google and Amazon in hopes of being a household name.

MUNTEAN: How common is this going to be?

WATSON: If you live in some places right now, this is already common.

MUNTEAN (voice-over): Dallas is the test bed for drone delivery, where at about 20 different Walmarts, Zipline has deployed what it calls drone nests. When an order comes in, workers take the package out to a Zipline drone docked and ready to go. But to see how it really works, they let me try it. I picked what I wanted through the company's app, specified the drop off point, and about 10 minutes later.

MUNTEAN: Oh, there it is. I can see it. Open it up. There's my brown sugar. We have transcended the need to have to go to your neighbors for this. That's pretty cool.

MUNTEAN (voice-over): It is just a taste of what the Trump administration wants. Nationwide requiring major changes to safety standards in the sky. The Federal Aviation Administration's proposed rule is called Beyond Visual Line of Sight. It would allow delivery drones to fly themselves autonomously with one person monitoring multiple drones from inside a control room.

CAPT. JASON AMBROSI, AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION: Our airspace is already taxed to the max.

MUNTEAN (voice-over): Captain Jason Ambrosi heads the Air Line Pilots Association, which submitted one of 3,000 public comments on the proposed rule. AMBROSI: We're calling on the FAA to make sure they do a robust safety risk assessment to ensure that you're not diminishing the safety standards by allowing these drones to operate in airspace where the traveling and shipping public are -- are operating every day.

MUNTEAN (voice-over): The National Transportation Safety Board is investigating how two Amazon drones hit a crane in Arizona in October. Now pilots fear a drone colliding with a commercial flight could spell disaster. FAA administrator Bryan Bedford.

BRYAN BEDFORD, FAA ADMINISTRATOR: We can make drones recognize aircraft that are transponding and take evasive action.

MUNTEAN (voice-over): The drone industry's top lobby insists safety is paramount. It anticipates a final rule allowing this nationwide in the new year, part of a new frontier, flying to your doorstep.

WATSON: Being able to have products delivered where you need them, when you need them, with a right size solution that's good for the environment, safe, quiet and seamlessly integrates into our communities. That's the world that I want to live in.

MUNTEAN (voice-over): Pete Muntean, CNN, Dallas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[17:48:44]

MATTINGLY: The U.S. Supreme Court handing President Trump a defeat in his push to send the National Guard to certain cities. We'll explain coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: In our Politics Lead, the Justice Department says some of the material from the latest release of Epstein documents includes "untrue and sensationalist claims about President Trump." Here to discuss three co-hosts of the brand new morning show called The Huddle. Former White House press secretary during the first Trump administration, Sean Spicer, journalist and former Politico playbook author, fellow late night stakeout pal on Capitol Hill for many years, Rachael Bade and former Democratic strategist Dan Turrentine. Guys, really appreciate the show in the morning is awesome.

Spicer not wearing the Christmas sweater from yesterday. Little offended, but you know, I get it. The vibe changes by the hour. Rachael, to start with you, what stood out to you so far in this latest release we've all been digging through the last couple of hours?

RACHAEL BADE, CO-HOST, "THE HUDDLE": You know, Phil, it's interesting because in spite of sort of everybody talking about this right now, my sort of takeaway is that a lot of this feels kind of like a nothing burger. And I'll tell you why. I mean a lot of folks are talking about this note that Jeffrey Epstein apparently wrote to Larry Nassar, one convicted, you know, person who had trafficked underage girls writing to a convicted sex offender suggesting that the President in some way shared their affinity of young girls.

Right now the DOJ is saying that might be fake. But even if it is real, I mean, guys, the credibility of these two is obviously in question right now. So there's a lot of discussion about that. And I just -- I feel like the focus on it is kind of silly because who is going to believe this? And there are questions about whether it's even real. And then of course we've seen these new findings that, you know, the President was on Jeffrey Epstein's plane perhaps more frequently than we knew in the 1990s. But that has already sort of been out there before.

We already knew they had a close relationship back then and that they had some sort of fracture. So look, I think the thing everybody going to be watching, Phil, is whether the Justice Department releases more about these "10 co-conspirators" that the Justice Department apparently, you know, several years ago said that they thought they had 10 co-conspirators. People are going to want to know about that. So do we hear more about that in the coming days, Phil?

MATTINGLY: Yes, it's a really great point. Dan, I want to play what Jeffrey Epstein survivor, Haley Robson, who voted, we should know, voted for President Trump said to CNN's Pamela Brown earlier today, listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HALEY ROBSON, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: I am so disgusted with this administration. I think that Pam Bondi and Kash Patel both need to resign. And I would love to see number 47 get impeached over this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[17:55:08]

MATTINGLY: Dan, is that something you want to see Democrats pursue if they take power in the midterms?

DAN TURRENTINE, CO-HOST, "THE HUDDLE": No, absolutely not. I mean, look, I'm incredibly sympathetic and empathetic for all the victims who want answers, as do millions of Americans. But impeaching Donald Trump, to my belief so far, this is not a high crime in misdemeanor. There certainly does seem to be a lot of questions that need to be answered. I mean, I love Rachael, but -- but with all due respect, Trump's behavior on this has just been so bizarre. You know, this isn't me or Democrats saying it.

The amount of arms he twisted with Republicans to prevent this from -- from Congress from passing the bill to release it. And then this kind of like drip, drip. The fact that Thursday night right wing influencers got Bill Clinton's photographs, it led all the headlines on the weekend. And now, you know, lo and behold, here we are almost at Christmas. I'm sure more will come out right before New Year's Eve when people aren't paying attention. As a practitioner of politics, it just looks like you sure are trying to prevent certain news from getting out. MATTINGLY: Yes. If nothing else, the rollout has been a mess. I think that is an undeniable fact and a very apolitical statement to make at this point. Sean, the Epstein issue, it's really split the President from some of his most loyal supporters. Obviously we've seen people like Marjorie Taylor Greene really split. Has the release of the information in these files vindicated those supporters in pushing for the release?

SEAN SPICER, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I don't know. I mean, here -- here's what I'll tell you though. I mean, for a while the narrative was President was going to release it, then the President was covering up everything. We, CNN itself reported this morning that several of the new documents include President Trump. So let's figure out what we're actually talking about and I think keeping the eye on the prize. Rachael mentioned this, Dan mentioned this. There are real victims here who had their lives turned upside down in a horrible way by Jeffrey Epstein and -- and a lot of other individuals involved in that still deserve justice.

But this -- this is ridiculous what it has become in terms of a political matter. We're now looking at tens of thousands of documents that have come out. The Democrats forced the hand on this after not doing anything for four years. Then Bill Clinton said it was the Republicans fault, specifically Donald Trump for releasing information that he was forced to by the Democrats.

I'm still confused. Bottom line is more and more information continues to come out. I think it's rather unseemly as a whole. And I think the idea that we've all built this up to be some kind of massive Geraldo opening Capone safe is ridiculous. There are people's lives that are at stake. I'm glad DOJ is taking this judiciously to make sure that we don't put out information that would potentially harm another victim that may have, you know, had a witness statement or had pictures of them in a precarious way.

MATTINGLY: Yes, very good points. Also deeply appreciate the Geraldo deep cut reference. I want to turn to the fallout over the pulled "60 Minute" segment. You guys were talking about this on your show yesterday. It's gone viral after it aired in Canada. The correspondent claims the move to yank it here in the U.S. was corporate censorship. CBS News editor in chief Barry Weiss says it was an editorial move, saying the piece needed more on the record comments from the administration. In an e-mail obtained by Axios, Weiss says, "Tom Homan and Stephen Miller don't tend to be shy. I realize we've emailed the DHS spokesperson, but we need to push much harder to get these principles on the record."

The move to pull the story comes just days after Trump posted, "60 Minutes has treated me far worse since the so called takeover than they have ever treated me before." Rachael, what do you make of how this is all kind of played out?

BADE: Yes, Phil, I'm sure I'm going to get a lot of texts from colleagues of ours who are not going to like my take on this. But look, I think again that I feel like this was very overblown in terms of people looking at what happened and saying automatically that this was political influence or interference in some way. I mean, Barry Weiss, she was brought in to do just this. And that is to look at stories, to give a critical eye, to kind of act as a sort of check on what we know is sometimes a sort of left leaning media landscape. And that is what she was doing.

And you know this from working in journalism. This kind of stuff happens all the time, Phil. You write a story, you put a package together, it gets approved by an editor and that person's boss. And then someone says, wait a second, well, why didn't we push harder to get a comment from so and so? And that's exactly what she did. I mean, you just mentioned Axios there. They also had this nugget that there were apparently some sort of comments from the White House from the administration that were given to this correspondent that never made the package.

So, look, she had clearly valid reasons for what she did. And to suggest that this is political automatically, it just didn't show the evidence on that so far.

MATTINGLY: Dan, what's your view?

TURRENTINE: Well, I think, you know, two things could be true at once. It could be that the story needed, you know, more balance, they needed to hear from the White House. But it's also true that -- that Paramount is trying to have a major acquisition of Netflix, for which this President has said he is going to be involved in this, and he is not happy. And so is it possible that -- that CBS is trying to make the king happy here and pull a story that, you know, he's probably not going to like? Hard -- it's hard to imagine that that's not the case.

[18:00:11]

MATTINGLY: Sean, quick last word.

SPICER: Yes. I mean, look, I agree with Rachael on this. This happens all the time in the industry. The idea that they're trying to get this right, or at least somebody at CBS makes sense. They have a history of left leaning reporting on Donald Trump specifically and against Republican Sharyn Alfonsi, the reporter in this. This is just Barry Weiss doing what journalists are supposed to do, trying to get it right.

MATTINGLY: Highly recommend the show, guys. Thanks so much for coming on. Really appreciate it.

BADE: Thanks Phil.

TURRENTINE: Thanks Phil.