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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Historic Winter Storm To Slam Much Of U.S.; Thousands Protest ICE In Minneapolis Despite Cold And Business Shutdowns; Trump Angers Allies With Swipe At NATO Troops In Afghanistan; Rep. Ryan Zinke (R- MT) Is Interviewed About Outrage Over Trump's Swipe At NATO Troops In Afghanistan; U.S.-Canada Tensions Strained After Fiery Davos Speeches. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired January 23, 2026 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Thanks to my panel, you can watch more of The Arena tomorrow. The Arena Saturday airs at noon Eastern right here on CNN. Be sure to join us. Jake Tapper, my friend and colleague is standing by for "The Lead."

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Thanks, Pamela. We'll look for more next week in The Arena.

BROWN: Sounds good.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.

TAPPER: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. And this hour we're following breaking news on multiple fronts, top of mind for many in the United States, of course, is the most extreme widespread winter storm the U.S. has seen in years.

The first phase starting now, the blast of arctic air setting up record lows. Then comes the rain, parts of southwest Plains, Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, you know you're getting that already.

Then, even more dangerous event, the sleet which then turns to ice along with the snow, all pushing east, impacting much of the country tomorrow into Monday. We're going to break down the forecast in just a moment, but I also want to preview some other breaking news stories we're covering, including what's unfolding in Minneapolis despite temperatures below zero.

Protest against Trump's immigration crackdown is underway there, which is our second big story today. And in the wake of the outcry over a father and five-year-old boy taken into custody. We're heard today from the head of border patrol, the controversial Greg Bovino, where he said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GREGORY BOVINO, BORDER PATROL COMMANDER AT LARGE: We are experts in dealing with children. Let me say that again. Experts in dealing with children. We are going to take these criminal illegal aliens off the street and make America a safer place, make Minneapolis a safer place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Our third major focus, the breaking news story, the international uproar over the comments made by President Trump before he left Davos, Switzerland. He said in a Fox Business interview that the United States has never needed allied troops in Afghanistan and those there stayed off the front lines.

Now, in point of fact, more than 1,000 non-U.S. NATO troops and coalition forces who are not from the United States were killed fighting the U.S. led war in Afghanistan. More than a thousand. So what President Trump says has launched a strong line of condemnations, including from the British prime minister and Prince Harry and many more. We'll get to that story in a second.

But let's start with the breaking news in the weather lead, the National Lead, two-thirds of the entire U.S. population staring down a monster winter storm, brutally cold temperatures.

This storm, which is just beginning to kick into gear in the south central United States will stretch over 2,000 miles from Texas to New England as it heads east this weekend. For most people, this of course is not going to be a winter wonderland. We're talking about dangerous life threatening situations with extreme amounts of snow and ice. At least 15 states and Washington D.C. declaring emergencies already telling people to stock up on nonperishable food items, batteries and blankets.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our plea to the people of the state is if you can stay off the roads.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Within about 48 hours, Connecticut's going to look like Greenland.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Be ready to stay home for a few days potentially without power.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Make sure you got the things that you need at your house to stay warm and hunker down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Many of the threats out there, of them ice is the biggest weather ice I'm talking about. Just look at this three day ice accumulation forecast that stretches across the country. This is going to bring down trees and power lines, especially in the southern United States where it is likely to cause widespread power outages.

As we've seen before, this could theoretically leave hundreds of people without heat for days as the temperatures drop precipitously low in so many areas impacted by the storm. You should probably just forget about traveling on the roads. It could be impossible. Thousands of flights have already been canceled once the storm

actually passes. The threat doesn't end there. More than half of Americans will then be experiencing subzero wind chills in the next week, locking that snow and ice in place in a very dangerous way.

Let's go to CNN meteorologist Chris Warren. Chris, such a monster storm in terms of size and impact. Walk us through what each specific region of the United States is facing, starting with the regions where the storms form.

CHRIS WARREN, CNN METEOROLOGIST: All right. And Jake, right now what we're looking at is in the mid and upper levels of the atmosphere. The cold air is at the surface. But this shows us where the spin is out here and that's where the meat of the storm is.

But there is a little wave out ahead of it. So it's kind of essentially coming in a couple of waves. And we're starting to see the first one right now in Texas. The green is the rain, the pink and the purple colors, the wintry precipitation, sleet, freezing rain and then purple in snow. And you can see the, that changeover is really starting to happen. That colder air is winning over and through time you can see the rest of this evening.

The ice, sleet and freezing rain spreading across the Red River Valley, eventually into the Ark, La, Tex, Oklahoma, into Tennessee. This is now first thing tomorrow morning. And then out here you see that second wave getting going. So then here we go again. Dallas will be back in it here by Sunday and then this moves off again.

[17:05:02]

It is going to be a two-parter here with snow to the north. But Jake, as you mentioned, this is going to be welcome. That 12, you know, foot and a half of snow compared to this crippling catastrophic ice on the way for parts of Louisiana, Texas, Arkansas and Mississippi.

TAPPER: It sounds like the southeastern United States could be in for some real danger when it comes to the ice threat specifically. Right?

WARREN: That's right. And this is extreme. You can see the ice going all the way down to the Gulf in some areas now to the southeast. And here it comes. Atlanta is right on the edge. Some of its northern suburbs will get some of that ice and then the ice going all the way up into the Piedmont of the Carolinas into Virginia. This is now Sunday. Even some thunderstorms, Jake, on Sunday we could see.

But again, the ice, just if there was the pink color here, you know, you get a quarter of an inch that can make things dangerous and create some power outages. But these higher amounts getting closer to an inch, crippling likely power outages for days with that extreme cold.

TAPPER: The mid-Atlantic and then where we are here in Washington, D.C. the Northeast.

WARREN: Yes. So snow is going to be the main story. It's just going to be how much, right. How long is it going to last? How much snow, Jake, are we ultimately going to have here in the mid-Atlantic in the Northeast.

By 9 o'clock tomorrow, you'll be seeing in some of the suburbs of Washington, D.C. some of the snow moving in darker purple, heavier at times. What could keep some snow totals from getting too high will be a change over to sleet or even rain at times. But through the day on Sunday, even into Monday, still lingering some snow showers.

But again, if you know, not even including the south, just the Northeast, this is a big storm, one of the biggest in years. But Jake, the enormity of this starting tonight in Texas and lasting all the way to Monday in New England, this is also going to have big, big impacts at the airports and of course on the roads as well. Transportation taking a big hit this weekend.

TAPPER: All right, meteorologist Chris Warren, thank you so much. Let's bring in CNN's Brian Todd. He's in Alexandria, Virginia, just outside D.C. CNN's Bill Weir is in Brooklyn. And Brian, we can see those massive salt domes behind you, I think. How is Virginia handling storm preparations?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, they're handling it with a real sense of urgency because as you just heard, every official in every state that's declared a state of emergency has said this is going to be a dangerous multi-layered storm coming our way and it requires a complex operation to try to counter it. That's where this place comes in.

This is what they nicknamed the megadome. This is one of 18 such facilities just in four counties in northern Virginia that --

TAPPER: All right, Brian, I'm telling you, microphone's not so hot. Bill, I want to ask you something. President Trump today posted on Truth Social quote, record cold wave expected to hit 40 states. Rarely seen anything like it before. Could the environmental insurrectionists please explain whatever happened to global warming, Bill, obviously I don't consider you an environmental insurrectionist, but you are very smart about the threat to the planet caused by manmade climate change.

Can you explain the role climate change might be playing in the storm?

BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know the President has laid off or fired just an army worth of climate scientists and buried a lot of their work from federal websites and that. But I'm sure there's still a few left that could help explain to them that yes, the last 11 years are the hottest ever recorded and they continue to shatter heat records every year, setting very few low temperature records in that time.

But it does yet still get really cold on an overheating planet. And the leading theory these days, this science is about 10 years old, is all around the polar vortex. This is this band of high speed wind around the top of planet Earth like a belt when it's in better days than this, that holds that cold air up at the North Pole.

But theory is as the Arctic warms four times faster than the rest of the Earth and a lot of sea ice is lost, that it creates a wobble in that polar vortex. Big sags in that belt which let cold air way down to Texas as we saw five years ago. Deep freezes in places that aren't used to it. It is incongruous for folks to think about it.

James Inhofe famously brought a snowball onto the floor of Congress. A climate denying senator from Oklahoma there. This comes up every time but it is all weather getting less predictable and more violent, including ice storms, including massive blizzards including 10 feet of snow in some cases because a warmer atmosphere holds more moisture in summer and win. Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Bill Weir in Brooklyn. Brian Todd, thank you so much.

Let's bring in the director of Tennessee Emergency Management Agency, Patrick Sheehan. Patrick, thanks for joining us.

[17:10:00]

What plan do you have in place for the storm? What resources are being deployed right now?

PATRICK SHEEHAN, DIRECTOR, TENNESSEE EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY: Yes, so our partners of the Tennessee Department of Transportation have plows and salt chucks positioned and they pre brined or pre salted roads throughout the state. You know, it's a tough thing. It's encompassing just about all 95 counties. Highway Patrol troopers are resting up so that they can be have more troopers available over the course of the weekend. You know, the weather doesn't expect. We don't expect the weather to start for a few more hours yet.

And then we also have National Guardsmen who are on standby with equipment at the ready, at their armories that are four by four and with winches and things like that so that they're more able to move. We're also standing up.

TAPPER: Go ahead. No, go ahead. No, please finish.

SHEEHAN: Yes, we also have, you know, our local partners and nongovernmental organizations are setting up shelters and getting those things ready. We're communicating those on our webpage. So if someone's in an area and they lose power or they're concerned about where they are, they can see the closest place that they can go for warmth and community.

TAPPER: What guidance should Tennesseans follow if their power does go out?

SHEEHAN: So one try to report it to your power company. Certainly our electric membership corporations or municipal power and the Tennessee Valley Authority, we've had conversations with them already today and they prepositioned assets to be able to rapidly restore power.

But if you're trying to heat yourself, just make sure you're not doing things that increase the carbon monoxide level in your home. So be safe with any heat sources and do things to stay warm. You want to make sure that your faucets are dripping so they don't freeze and things like that. Those common sense small precautions that go a long way to keeping you safer.

TAPPER: Icy conditions obviously are a huge concern. How are your teams coordinating with the road crews and how are you setting priorities?

SHEEHAN: Yes, so the Tennessee Department of Transportation and local highway departments, they always start with the big roads first. So those crew critical corridors for transportation, we communicate by having representatives from the Tennessee Department of Transportation here in the state Emergency operations center, which you can see behind me, they have traffic management centers, the Tennessee Department of Transportation does in each of its regions where they monitor roadways.

And all of our vehicles are equipped with GPS so we can track and see which roads have been covered already and then look for reports of slick spots or difficulties in traveling. So we have folks here who will be when our EOC opens tonight. Our emergency operations center opens tonight at 8:00 p.m. Central. Who will begin all weekend, 24 hours a day to monitor and coordinate solutions, any problem areas that arise.

TAPPER: All right. Patrick Sheehan with the Tennessee Emergency Management Agency. Thanks and best of luck to you.

SHEEHAN: Thanks so much.

TAPPER: Much more ahead as we track this impending storm and look at how cities across the country are preparing. But first, the latest protest in Minneapolis. Hundreds showing up with one unifying message, ICE out. And they're not talking about the weather. The strong defense today from border patrol officials after detaining a father and five- year-old son and sending them into a detention facility in Texas. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:17:34]

TAPPER: And we're back with our breaking news story from Minneapolis. A sizable crowd has taken to the streets there in subzero temperatures to protest the immigration crackdown in that city. That protest has now moved indoors. It's inside the Target Center Arena.

One major issue for demonstrators is ICE detaining a five-year-old boy along with his father.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOVINO: We are experts in dealing with children. Let me say that again. Experts in dealing with children, not because we want to be, but because we have to be. I challenge any other law enforcement agency anywhere nationwide to show me the fantastic care that ICE and U.S. Border Patrol provide children.

(END VIDEO CLIP) TAPPER: That is top Border Patrol official Greg Bovino earlier this day claiming the federal agents are experts in dealing with children. This assertion coming after criticism and even some concern from President Trump about the optics over ice detaining 5-year-old Liam Conejo Ramos and his father earlier this week. They're now at a detention facility in South Texas.

I want to bring in CNN's Priscilla Alvarez. And Priscilla, there are contrasting accounts of what happened during this five year old's detainment. Also questions about whether the father is actually an illegal immigrant as opposed to somebody who applied for asylum status. Tell us more.

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is really the latest incident where there have been various accounts as to what happened on the ground. So what those who the witnesses and the school officials have been saying is that when the agents had the child, there was a discussion with the mother, or rather the mother wanted the custody of the child, but she was being told not to open the door over fears that she too was going to be taken into federal custody.

Now the Department of Homeland Security has stated that she refused to take custody of the child. But the school officials who have been talking about this incident have been talking to the family describe that moment, that situation quite differently. Take a listen to them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARY GRANDLUND, SCHOOL BOARD CHAIRWOMAN, COLUMBIA HEIGHTS PUBLIC SCHOOL: There was ample opportunity to be able to safely hand that child off to adults. And mom was there. She saw out the window and dad was yelling, please do not open the door, don't open the door.

SARA SIDNER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Are you accusing ICE of using children as bait?

GRANDLUND: Yes. I mean that it's very clear from the pictures, from the videos, from firsthand accounts. I was there. This is what happened.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[17:20:03]

ALVAREZ: Now, ICE disputes that they were using the child as bait. As far as the father, they said that he fled when they were trying to make the apprehension because he was the target of this immigration enforcement. But that too is something that our teams on the ground have been trying to understand better as to what happened in the very moment that they were driving home from school and this child was ultimately sort of met in the middle of this huddle that you saw there of federal immigration agents.

I do want to note on immigration history, Jake. This was a family who arrived to the U.S.-Mexico border through an app that was provided during the Biden administration that allowed migrants to request an appointment to go to a legal port of entry. This is all according to the lawyer, where they would be vetted and if they cleared, they could be released into the United States and then apply for asylum. And that is what they did again according to the attorney. So they were going through that process.

What that means, Jake, is they're going through a legal process in the United States. They have not yet been granted any status to allow them to stay in the United States, but they are taking the steps and had been taking the steps to try to get there. So that is why I think we're seeing some of the language here being the technicality of them being an illegal alien, which can sometimes dismiss the fact that they were legally going through a process and the federal government was aware of them, they doing that.

TAPPER: Have they been told specifically to leave?

ALVAREZ: We have not been able to confirm that they have a final order of removal.

TAPPER: What about the Texas Detention Center where the 5-year-old and his dad are being held? What's that like?

ALVAREZ: Well, that's tough facility I've done a lot of reporting on the way it is because it's for families. They have classroom, they have a gym, they have these beige trailers where they have all of that. But Jake, the concern here is not so much the -- what they have at their disposal so much as these are families, particularly under this administration, who have been plucked out of their daily life and then put in a detention setting.

So a lot of children, and there are children from infants to teenagers at this facility with their parents, struggle with that, wrestle with that and have languished because of it because like this five-year- old, they may have been going to preschool on Monday and then they're in a detention center by the end of the week and that can be very disruptive.

Now, the senior ICE official during the presser today did describe what ICE offers and I'll let him describe it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARCOS CHARLES, ICE EXECUTIVE ASSISTANT DIRECTOR OF ENFORCEMENT AND REMOVAL OPERATION: They get top notch care. They have medical care, the food is good. They have learning services. They have church services available. They have recreation. They have special caregivers to see to the needs of the children and the mothers or families that are there. It's better -- honestly. It's better than social services.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALVAREZ: But again, the underlying concern that has existed with attorneys and advocates who have regularly visited this facility and spoken to the families there is that again, these are families that are in a detention setting and it's very uncertain what their futures are. Will they be deported? Are they just going through their process and could be released? With all those questions up in the air, as is the case here with this father and son, it can make the whole experience quite distressing.

TAPPER: One thing's very clear, these are not the worst of the worst, as President Trump promised they would focus on. Priscilla Alvarez. Thanks so much. Protesters also using their money to push back on the ICE crackdown in their city and economic blackout is urging others not to go to work or shop until ice leaves Minneapolis.

I'm going to talk to a small business owner deeply impacted by what's going on. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:27:53]

TAPPER: Back in our National Lead, negative degree weather did not keep anti-ICE protesters from marching through Minneapolis today. That protest has now moved indoors inside the Target Center Arena.

This as hundreds of businesses statewide have closed in solidarity joining in a so called economic blackout. One of those businesses participating is an independent bookstore in Minneapolis called Moon Palace Books and the co-owner, Jamie Schwesnedl joins me now.

Jamie, why was it important for you and your wife to close your bookstore today?

JAMIE SCHWESNEDL, Co-OWNER, MOON PALACE BOOKS: Well, Jake, we can't do business as usual right now anyway because our city has been invaded by masked gunmen kidnapping family members and friends and neighbors of ours to send them to concentration camps.

Additionally, there's a lot of businesses in our area that have staff or customers or owners who are afraid to come to work, afraid to come in and shop. People are closing down today and we felt like it wouldn't be kind or fair for us to stay open. So we're closing in solidarity to help send a message.

TAPPER: Just one note, I -- I'm not going to -- I'm not here to defend ice, but I'm not a big fan of people using the term concentration camp to describe detention camps. That has a very specific meaning in terms of people that --

SCHWESNEDL: I understand that. But they take people to Fort Snelling here, which literally was built as a concentration camp. And Alligator Alcatraz, which I think we can all agree is a concentration camp. Not saying they're Dachau, I'm not saying they're putting people in ovens yet, but these are concentration camps.

TAPPER: OK.

SCHWESNEDL: I don't need to argue with you about it.

TAPPER: Yes, that's fine. Here's a question for you just about this boycott. How does this hurt ICE? It seems to me it hurts you and it hurts your customers. And I certainly understand the idea of wanting to do something, wanting to demonstrate, wanting to make your voice heard. But explain to me why this isn't like a self-inflicted wound.

[17:30:02]

Because first of all, let me just say I love independent bookstores. I think I've been to yours, and it's great, like, why, why do this to register your protest?

SCHWESNEDL: Well, we're hurting already. Businesses down everywhere in the city, especially in our neighborhood where ICE and Customs and Border Patrol have been extremely active. People are afraid to go shopping, afraid to go to work, afraid to go outside because of the reckless driving of ICE troops speeding through the city.

And additionally, you know, we feel like all of us closing down today, shutting down the city today, it's sending a message to the rest of the country, we hope, and we hope that people hear us, and it's a message saying, we hope you'll join us in resisting this authoritarian and totalitarian regime that's being forced upon us.

TAPPER: But you take my point, right? I mean, ICE agents, this isn't going to, again, I'm not saying that you shouldn't protest, but this specific method, it's not going to hurt ICE agents. It's not going to hurt President Trump or Kristi Noem.

SCHWESNEDL: Well, sure, not today, but, you know, that's how strikes and general strikes work, is people don't get paid because they're making a point, and, you know, like I said, none of us are making much money right now anyway, because essentially, our city has been overrun by massed gunmen.

Literally, I can't leave my house and drive to work or go to the grocery store without seeing people being asked for their papers at the gas station, people being grabbed off the sidewalk at bus stops, and, you know, just today, an ICE agent crashed their vehicle three blocks from my house doing some kind of dangerous driving maneuver, so, you know, we can't do business as usual right now in our city.

TAPPER: I hear you. All right, Jamie Schwesnedl, thank you so much. Good luck to you and your family and your city. He's the co-owner of Moon Palace Books, Moon Palace Books in Minneapolis. Thanks again.

Coming up next, outage -- outrage and disgust coming from around the world, but this is not about the ICE raids. This is in reaction to a comment President Trump made about non-U.S. NATO troops in Afghanistan.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[17:36:47]

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I've always said, will they be there if we ever needed them? And that's really the ultimate test. And I'm not sure of that. We've never needed them. We have never really asked anything of them. You know, they'll say they sent some troops to Afghanistan or this or that. And they did. They stayed a little back, a little off the front lines.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: That is President Trump seeming to dismiss the service and sacrifice of non-U.S. NATO troops, claiming that they were never in harm's way, suggesting the U.S.'s NATO allies wouldn't stand by the Article 5 mutual defense obligations, which they already have after 9/11. I want to show you now, these are some of the pictures of non- U.S. NATO troops from the U.K. and Canada and France and Romania and Croatia and Denmark, who are no longer with us.

They made the ultimate sacrifice. They lost their lives while fighting alongside the United States in Afghanistan after the September 11th attacks. More than 1,000 non-U.S. troops who were part of the coalition in Afghanistan killed fighting in this U.S.-led war.

Now, while in absolute terms, the U.S., of course, lost by far the most troops of any NATO country in Afghanistan, some NATO countries with much smaller populations than we have lost almost as many troops in relative per capita terms, such as the U.K. and Denmark, which had similar casualty rates per capita as the U.S.

This is how British Prime Minister Keir Starmer responded to President Trump's comments today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEIR STARMER, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I will never forget their courage, their bravery, and the sacrifice that they made for their country. There are many also who were injured, some with life-changing injuries. And so I consider President Trump's remarks to be insulting and frankly appalling. And I'm not surprised they've caused such hurt to the loved ones of those who were killed or injured, and in fact, across the country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Let's discuss with Republican Congressman Ryan Zinke of Montana. He was the Secretary of Interior in Trump's first term. And more to the point, in terms of this segment, he served as a Navy SEAL for more than 20 years and trained U.S. sailors in the wake of the 9/11 attacks. Thanks so much for being here. And as always, we salute your service.

REP. RYAN ZINKE (R-MT): Well, and also I was a deputy and an acting commander of the Combined Joint Special Operations Force in Iraq.

TAPPER: OK.

ZINKE: My experience, I had NATO brethren with me, and I absolutely salute our partners, the Special Forces, NATO, because they did sacrifice. But to the President's point, too, is let's look at Canada, for instance. Canada doesn't have a warship. And remember when Ukraine first began. Germany surged forward everything they had available. I think it was 10 Humvees and a couple of Patriot missile batteries that weren't full.

So NATO itself relies on the U.S. Everyone needs to do a chore. But I absolutely recognize and honor the commitment of the soldiers, individual soldiers that are out there. And I fought with them, with the snipers. I fought with them in Special Forces. They're friends of mine, and I certainly appreciate their sacrifice and honor their sacrifice.

[17:39:59]

TAPPER: I don't think anyone really takes issue with President Trump thinking that our NATO allies should do more to spend on defense, which he's done pretty successfully, actually, in the first term and now. Or questioning whether NATO countries are doing enough in terms of with Ukraine, et cetera. But it's -- I think it's the specific question about whether troops from these other countries pulled their weight, heeded the call.

They were there for us because that's the only time Article 5 in the NATO Convention was ever invoked after 9/11. And then, of course, serving on the front lines. In addition to Prime Minister Starmer, the Tory opposition leader, Kemi Badenoch, called the comments a disgrace. Prince Harry said U.K. troops deserve respect. Even Trump's ally, Nigel Farage, called the comments wrong. In terms of these specific comments, do you think President Trump made a mistake?

ZINKE: President Trump is President Trump. And the mold was broke. If the point is that is NATO doing their share, is NATO viable without the United States? No. We supply the logistics, the overwhelming force.

The second NATO ally, the largest, you know, physical force on the ground, the number of troops, is Turkey. But, you know, Germany, and you look at the NATO, in the recent discussions about Denmark, the entirety of the Denmark army could fit in, you know, the stadium over here. And Canada doesn't have a warship.

And defending the Arctic without a warship is problematic. But listen, I had, you know, I was a commander, acting commander, of the Combined Joint Special Operations Force in Iraq. I've seen the sacrifice. I've written letters home. I've trained and know my brothers in the SBS in Canada with the Joint, you know, Combined Special Forces groups. So they're good people.

Overall, it's the political side. I think the leadership needs to put more, I say, resources behind them.

TAPPER: Yes.

ZINKE: A lot of times their equipment is lacking. You know, we had to give ammunition. We had to give weapons and systems to our allies because their country did not give.

TAPPER: I don't think anybody takes issue with that. But I would love you to just take a moment to educate the American people because I don't think, because we spend so much time honoring the troops, our troops in this country, we don't necessarily take the time to like, even understand the fact that as Mark Rutte, the NATO Secretary General, said to President Trump the other day privately, according to "The Atlantic," for every two Americans that didn't make it home, there was a non-American, non-U.S. NATO troop who also didn't make it home.

When I did the book, when I wrote the book "The Outpost," there were troops from Latvia who were in that incredibly dangerous, forward- facing, front-line outpost that I called when I was writing the book because in addition to the 50-plus U.S. soldiers, there were three Latvians there.

ZINKE: Well, remember the first Gulf War. It wasn't just NATO.

TAPPER: Right.

ZINKE: We had troops from Saudi. We had troops from El Salvador. We had troops from worldwide because I think when you have a combined, you know, message and a combined force, you're much stronger. And a short story is that we were in a NATO meeting and Belgium comes to the table and says, you know, what do we offer? I said, well, you know, U.S., you're the meat and potatoes. You know, to a degree, you know, Brits, you're the turnips.

You know, we are the spice, which is so true in the context, but you never should dismiss anyone who raised their hand to fight for their country and volunteer, to a degree. Most of these forces are volunteers. To be a part of an allied force, you got to respect them, and I deeply appreciate their service.

And believe me, I've been with Special Forces at the highest level, and the Brits are tough. There's a family of Special Forces fighters there. We all get along. We all respect each other. And on any day, we'll serve and we'll fight for each other.

TAPPER: All right, former Navy SEAL and Republican Congressman Ryan Zinke, thanks so much. Great to have you here.

ZINKE: Really appreciate it.

[17:44:27]

TAPPER: More reaction, plus the proposal from a potential 2028 Democratic contender, likely not to go over so well with people in power here in D.C. What is it? Well, Rahm Emanuel is here to explain, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AL CARNS, BRITISH PARLIAMENT: I'd serve five tours in Afghanistan. Many alongside my American colleagues, we shed blood, sweat, and tears together. Not everybody came home. There's only one worse thing than working with allies. That is working without them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: That's ex-Special Forces Colonel and British Parliament member Al Carnes joining a chorus of condemnation after President Trump suggested that non-U.S. NATO troops, "stayed a little back, a little off the front lines" during the 20-year war in Afghanistan after the 9/11 terrorist attacks. The House of Commons notes that there were 457 deaths of U.K. Armed Forces personnel, just the U.K.

Here now, former Chicago mayor, Ambassador to Japan Rahm Emanuel, considering a possible run for the White House in 2028. Rahm, what was your reaction to the President's comments seeming to diminish the sacrifice by non-U.S. NATO allies in Afghanistan?

RAHM EMANUEL, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL & GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: Well, the first thing that came to mind was just years ago, he insulted American soldiers at their gravesite. He called them suckers and losers. He said John McCain at POW, he was not a hero. This is from a guy who avoided his service in Vietnam, calling for his own bone spur, which is a lot of questions about whether that's true.

[17:50:00]

So, you know, America used to be admired. It used to be respected. Now we're derided and we're repudiated. And I'll just give you one quick story, Jake. When we were with President Obama, first trip from Amsterdam to Germany at the hospital, we were walking through and giving medals to soldiers that had been wounded.

There was a Polish soldier, no arms, no legs. I said to the president, having represented a Polish constituency in Chicago, I said, say, Dzien Dobry, which the president said, and this young man with no arms and no legs had a smile. We put a medal next to his pillow. That is not how you treat people.

TAPPER: Yes.

EMANUEL: Let alone from a guy who avoided his own service.

TAPPER: President Trump's also escalating tensions with Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney who pushed back against Trump's claims that Canada, "lives because of the United States." Today, President Trump posted on social media, "Dear Prime Minister Carney, the Board of Peace is withdrawing its invitation to you regarding Canada's joining what will be the most prestigious board of leaders ever assembled at any time."

Canada is now pivoting to China as the U.S. becomes a less reliable ally in Canada's view. You're thinking about running for president. Do you agree with Prime Minister Carney that what's going on right now is a rupture, not just a transition?

EMANUEL: As a famous chief of staff once said, never allow a good crisis to go to waste. What Prime Minister Carney is saying, we've got a crisis here. I'm going to make the most of it for my country. And while I think there's a lot of risk being associated with China, he's creating his own leverage as it deals with the United States that used to be an ally, used to be a partner, used to be a great investor on both sides and benefit both sides. I have an alternative if this is how you want to play.

I think this is really reckless. One of the great things for America's security is two oceans and no real conflicts on the north or the south of the border. The President of the United States is making an asset become a liability at our own peril. We are now isolated in the world rather than leading from the front of the world with many people following us.

TAPPER: On Wednesday, you outlined a host of ethics reforms and proposals. One of them got a lot of notice. You said mandatory retirement age of 75 across all branches of federal government, including the president. That, by the way, would bar you from serving as a second term as president if you're elected in 2028. Why 75?

EMANUEL: Well, a couple of things. One is, first of all, I think Washington needs a good power washing. People sitting on committees that are trading stock, Supreme Court justices and other court members hearing cases and having taken a free trip from them. The President of the United States just got a free plane from a foreign government.

Clean the place up, and as part of that, 75 across the board, up and out. You're done. You've served. You can't do the military that way. You can't do private sector jobs that way. And don't worry about my future. What we should be focused on in Washington, if I go there, the American people's future. My future's fine, and don't worry about it. It is the future of this country that gets lost in all of Washington's special interest politics that you would sit there, fair question, oh, it would affect me.

I'm good, Jake. In the hits or whatever, for me, it's really the American people you have to worry about and their future, and that's what they're asking you to focus on, and it gets blocked with all the special interests in Washington.

TAPPER: Big news today on the vaccine front. I want to play you something that the chair of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices said on a "New York Times" podcast about making the vaccines for polio and measles and others optional.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. KIRK MILHOAN, CHAIR, ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON IMMUNIZATION PRACTICES: What we are doing is returning individual autonomy to the first order, not public health, but individual autonomy to the first order, as opposed to what was sort of more of a heavy-handed authoritarian thought of the vaccine schedule that led to mandates.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: What's your reaction?

EMANUEL: I'm looking right now. I'm actually texting a lawyer for a malpractice lawsuit against these guys, and my dad was a pediatrician in Chicago. The idea that you're going to take polio shots and other types of vaccines, there are essential immunizations away from children without the government direction correctly and a recommendation about the well-being of that child. We have eradicated many diseases because of these vaccine programs.

This is malpractice of rule number one, and anybody with a medical degree, two coupons of Kellogg and 25 cents knows what they're talking about is dangerous for these kids. And I say that as my dad going on rounds with them as a pediatrician. He's rolling over in his grave listening to this right now.

TAPPER: Rahm Emanuel, thank you so much, sir. Good to see you.

EMANUEL: Thanks, Jake.

[17:54:48]

TAPPER: Parts of this country are starting to feel conditions change right now as this massive winter storm sets in. Our meteorologists are getting updates on the models. We're going to tell you who's going to see what and when. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. We're following breaking news tonight. States are declaring emergencies left and right as a major winter storm gears up to drop crippling amounts of ice and snow across 2,000 miles from Texas to New England. Even a small amount of ice can have big impacts. What about a large amount of ice? Well, possibly catastrophic, accumulations will make travel impossible, bringing down trees and power lines.

Many southern states in the United States, including Georgia, are telling residents to prepare for potentially days of power outages in frigid temperatures. Meteorologist Chris Warren has all the details. Chris, what's the latest forecast?

[18:00:02]

CHRIS WARREN, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Well, Jake, it does look like this is going to come in a couple of waves and we're starting to see the first one take shape in Texas.