Return to Transcripts main page

The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump Says, GOP Should Take Over The Voting In 15 Places; Trump Says, Will Call Savannah Guthrie About Search For Her Mother; U.S. Attorney Jeanine Pirro Sparks Fury Over Threat To Jail Lawful Gun Owners Traveling To D.C.; Trump Signs Bill To End Partial Government Shutdown. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired February 03, 2026 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.

This hour, officials are pleading for the public's help to locate the mother of NBC Anchor Savannah Guthrie. As the search stretches into a third day, authorities on the ground in Arizona revealing they have submitted DNA samples for testing, but they have not been able to identify any suspects yet. Two former FBI officials will join us live in moments for insight into what's likely happening behind the scenes right now.

Plus, the White House today trying to clean up President Trump's comments where he said that Republicans should take over voting in at least 15 areas, presumably Democratic or battleground states or counties. Trump's remarks coming just days after the FBI searched an elections office in Georgia, a state Trump lost in 2020, but continues to insist he won. It's causing national concern that Trump is setting the stage for potentially unconstitutional measures in the midterm elections. A top Republican election lawyer is here in studio to react.

And the brother of Renee Good testifying on Capitol Hill today weeks after his sister was killed by an ICE agent in Minneapolis. Democratic Senator Richard Blumenthal led that public forum. He joins us live to share what he heard, ahead.

The Lead tonight, it seems quite possible, if not probable, that Trump's seizure of ballots and other documents related to his loss in 2020 in Fulton County, Georgia, has more to do with the 2026 midterms and the 2028 presidential election than it does the 2020 election. How do I know this? Why do I think this? Well, Trump told us. Listen to what he told his former deputy FBI director, Dan Bongino, on a podcast yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: The Republicans should say, we want to take over. We should take over the voting at least many -- 15 places. The Republicans order nationalize the voting. And then we have states that are so crooked and they're counting votes. We have states that I won that show I didn't win. Now, you're going to see something in Georgia where they were able to get with a court order and the ballots. You're going to see some interesting things come out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So, Trump tying his call for Republicans to take over in 15 areas with the raid on Fulton County and also suggesting he knows what's going to come out. You're going to see some interesting things come out, he said.

Now, you may be wondering exactly what the president means when he says, take over the voting. We were too. So CNN's Kaitlan Collins asked the president to explain his remarks just minutes ago in the Oval Office.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: When you see some of these states about how horribly they run their elections, what a disgrace it is, I think the federal government -- when you see crooked elections, and we had plenty of them. And, by the way, we had them last time. But go to 2020 and look at the facts that are coming out, rigged, crooked elections. If we have areas -- take a look at Detroit. Take a look at Pennsylvania. Take a look at Philadelphia. You go take a look at Atlanta. Look at some of the places that have horrible corruption on elections.

And the federal government should not allow that. The federal government should get involved. These are agents of the federal government to count the votes. If they can't count the votes legally and honestly, then somebody else should take over.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: But the Constitution says it should be states that administer elections. Mr. President. That's what the Constitution says.

TRUMP: You know what? They can administer the election, but they have to do it honestly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So, on the facts of the allegations the president just made about all this alleged election fraud in all these different places, hold that thought. But on the issue of what he's just talking about, that's the president saying that we should scrap the way we do elections per the U.S. Constitution, specifically the elections clause in Article 1, which gives states control over House and Senate elections take place. Article 2 gives states the power to decide how to hold their presidential elections.

But Trump very clearly said in his comments on the podcast that he wants one party, his, the GOP, to take over the voting in multiple places, presumably, as we just heard, battleground states and cities and counties that he lost in 2020 because of his disproven lies that the election was stolen from him in 2020.

Trump's words should be taken seriously. We all remember those who told us not to be concerned when Trump was pushing those baseless election conspiracy theories in 2020. We saw headlines that said there will be no Trump coup. His former acting White House chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, wrote a Wall Street Journal op-ed titled, if he Loses, Trump will concede gracefully. How did that turn out?

A reminder, as I said, that many of Trump's own top officials in the Trump administration, in his first term, thought there was nothing to these 2020 election conspiracy theories. They looked into it and they testified about it under oath. Here's just a teeny sampling.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM BARR, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL: I made it clear, I did not agree with the idea of saying the election was stolen and putting out this stuff, which I told the president was bullshit.

JEFFREY ROSEN, FORMER ATTONEY GENERAL: He wanted to talk about that he thought the election had been stolen or was corrupt and that there was widespread fraud.

[18:05:06]

And I had told him that our reviews had not shown that to be the case.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I said something to the effect of, sir, we've done dozens of investigations, hundreds of interviews, the major allegations are not supported by the evidence developed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: But now, of course, we're in the second Trump administration and he has a team of administration officials who seemingly will do anything he wants. The director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, was there for the Fulton County raid. She put Trump on the phone to talk to the FBI agents, according to The New York Times, which experts say was certainly unusual, if not entirely inappropriate. Gabbard says the president did not ask any questions or issue any directives on the call, we should note. So, now President Trump is connecting the dots. This is about establishing a justification, a predicate for his party to federalize elections in these areas that he talked about so that Republicans win.

Another justification he offered in that podcast interview is the presence of undocumented immigrants in the United States.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: If Republicans don't get them out, you will never win another election as a Republican.

And it's crazy how you can get these people to vote. And if we don't get them out, Republicans will never win another election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Again, not that the president seems to care much about facts or evidence here, but there is no evidence that non-citizens have been voting in significant numbers. I'm not saying they don't vote at all. They do but not in significant numbers. Georgia's secretary of state, a Republican, did an audit in 2024. He found of the 8.2 million Georgians registered to vote, 20 of them not 20,000, 20 were not citizens, nine had voted.

The governors and the secretaries of state and the election officials were the guardrails of democracy last time, Democrats and Republicans and independents alike. Will they be again this time? What Republicans and Congressmen do? Anything?

Let's discuss with former Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger, who sat on the January 6th select committee, and Ben Ginsberg, who was a top election lawyer in Republican politics and warned in 2020 that the GOP was destroying itself on the altar of Trump by parroting his false claims about election fraud.

So, Ben, as a legal matter, as a legal matter, you told me that you see President Trump's push to nationalize elections or whatever he is talking about through the lens of things that Trump has already said or pushed, specifically his March 25th executive order titled preserving and protecting the integrity if American elections and this Truth Social post in August where Trump wrote, quote, voter I.D. must be part of every single vote, no exceptions. I will be doing an executive order to that end, also no mail-in voting except for those that are very ill and the far away military, where he also talked about how the states are vessels for the federal government.

So, tell me about his thinking and whether you think any of it is constitutional legal.

BEN GINSBERG, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: It's certainly not constitutional legal. The Constitution does give the power to run elections to the states. Congress can put rules in for Senate and Congressional elections. The president has zero authority under the Constitution to do what he's suggesting. So, as a legal matter, it's wrong.

Now, can the president, as the president, do things that we're not anticipating now? Well, he's got a track record of doing that. And his rhetoric has been pretty plain about this. He said he wished he had seized ballots, seized the voting machines after the 2020 election.

TAPPER: Yes, he said that to The New York Times a few days ago, yes.

GINSBERG: Yes. And, I mean, that is consistent with the executive order you mentioned, saying how the states were a vessel for the federal government. That puts federalism principles and even the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution, which provides powers to the states, on its head.

What's most surprising about it, Jake, is that for years and years, it has been an article of faith of conservatives and Republicans that power should come from the states up to the federal government. Many of the members of the U.S. Senate, the U.S. House right now advocated for that for all their careers, and all of a sudden that's being turned upside down.

TAPPER: And, Adam, CNN's Manu Raju asked speaker Johnson about Trump's call to nationalize election or whatever he's proposing here. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MANU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The president had called yesterday for a takeover of federal elections such to nationalize in some states. Is that something that you think you should do, that Republicans should do, takeover elections?

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): The president is expressing his frustration about the problems we have in some of these blue states where election integrity is not always guaranteed. So, we have to figure out solutions to that problem, and that's what I think to save America --

RAJU: Takeover? Take --

JOHNSON: So, we're working on it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you guys.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: What's your read on that as a former member of Congress?

[18:10:00]

ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: What is he talking about? I mean, here's the thing, and this is where the politics come into play. It was an article of faith among the GOP, yes, that states should have power. Well, that's gone, but it is an article of faith that all these elections that they lose are stolen. I mean, it started out with this, you know, what happened in Chicago in the 60s, and then it becomes every Democratic city and every Democratic election. So what he's setting up here, if he doesn't actually end up intending to try to nationalize any kinds, like he's setting up a political dichotomy where he says, you should have a national voter I.D., right? The state -- maybe some states make a determination that that's not what's going to happen. And then he's going to have the Democrats have to defend that and that's what he's doing up, is setting up the politics, I'm for safe and free elections. The Democrats aren't.

The other weird thing is this whole like obsession about you have to vote in person on Election Day. I get it. It's not 1950 anymore. We need to make voting convenient for people as long as it's safe. So, all he is doing right here, look, he would take over the elections if he could. I mean, he'd do it today, like it's for that. But he is definitely trying to set up this -- the political issue so he can stir up his base, they're going to steal the election again. And just like he did in 2020, he's setting up for him to claim the election was stolen when he gets absolutely crushed in the House and the Senate.

TAPPER: So, there are so many fears out there about how he is going to do this, what he is going to do. And I think we all agree that after January 6th, who knows what he would attempt. But I wonder, you know the Supreme Court and you know some of the justices even personally, do you think that they are still the old school constitutionalist, conservatives, the six on the bench, that would be against this? GINSBERG: I think a takeover by the executive branch, which is really what he's talking about of elections, would be a violation of everything that they have written and said as originalists, as textualists, as conservative, as federalists. So, I think that probably the United States Supreme Court would not allow this to happen anymore than in 2020. It allowed the suit by 26 Republican attorney generals to try and reverse the Pennsylvania results. The court recognized and just didn't hear the case.

TAPPER: And, Adam, Trump keeps saying that we're going to see something interesting come out of this FBI search of that Fulton County's election office. What do you think that means?

KINZINGER: I have no clue, except that it's probably going to be something they make up. I mean, look, the thing about Georgia is this was a state run entirely by Republicans, Fulton County not necessarily, but Georgia was, they certified this election, and Donald Trump is obsessed because he lost. I mean, he lost in 2020. He knows history's going to reflect that, and he doesn't like being seen as a loser. So, that's why he has this obsession with it. So, I don't know what they're going to come out with.

Look, if they showed up and there was -- you know, they had proof that the election was stolen or whatever, we wouldn't be waiting to hear about that. I mean, he wouldn't be able to contain himself. I also want to point out, just real quick, Jake, remember the John Lewis Voting Rights Act, the whole reason Republicans claimed to oppose the voting John Lewis Voting Rights Act is because they believed in the power of state and local government to run elections, and they're like the federal government should have no role in that. That was their main argument. It is amazing to me -- not amazing anymore, actually. I'm just saying that rhetorically how quickly they turned their positions on everything.

TAPPER: Former Congressman Kinzinger, Ben Ginsberg, thank you so much for being here.

Investigators this afternoon revealed they have submitted DNA samples from the home of Nancy Guthrie. That's the mom of NBC Anchor Savannah Guthrie. Do they have any leads on a suspect? We're going to discuss with two former FBI officials, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:15:00]

TAPPER: We're back with the developing sad story in our nationally, the search for Nancy Guthrie. That's the mom of NBC Anchor Savannah Guthrie. Nancy Guthrie has now been missing for three days from her home in Arizona. She doesn't have her lifesaving medication with her. President Trump this afternoon says he plans to call Savannah Guthrie about the search efforts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Would you commit to more federal agents like helping out on this search?

TRUMP: Sure, I would. I got to call her later on. I think it's a terrible thing. I always get along very good with Savannah. Very unusual situation, but we're going to find out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Joining us now, CNN's Josh Campbell and former FBI Senior Official Katherine Schweit. Josh, local officials alongside the FBI in the Tucson area gave an update today. We didn't learn much more from the Pima County sheriff earlier. What can we glean from the answers he gave, do you think?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Well, two things. First, I think it's clear that they don't know where she is, and that's something that the sheriff has said that they're still trying to locate her. There's still a lot of questions that they have.

And, look, he was very exasperated in that press conference. You can tell. And I think what most people have to, you know, understand when it comes to these types of kidnapping investigations is that oftentimes it will take time until you find that viable lead, that one piece of information that can then send your investigation into the direction, hopefully the resolution that you hope and that's for safe recovery.

But, you know, we're in this information age where people want, you know, instant answers. And it's not like law enforcement isn't doing something, but they're working behind the scenes trying to process evidence, trying to get video from in and around that area. And so you could really feel the sense of exasperation from this team that is conducting this investigation.

And then the second thing I'll note is that there are clearly things that they know that they are not going to say as we see in, you know, many different investigations. But there has been reporting, the sheriff's department said that they are aware of, quote, reports of ransom notes that are out there. They haven't accredited those or indicate that they believe that they are actually, you know, valid here.

But I can tell you from these cases, if indeed there is actual credible ransom note authorities receive, that is not something that they're going to rush out to try to publicize. There are sensitive aspects about how they handle those, which I won't get into, but just in the main, you know, if you open a line of communication with an abductor, that is something they're going to treat very sensitively, again, hoping for the positive outlook here.

[18:20:05]

TAPPER: So, Katherine, you've worked missing persons cases with similarities to Nancy Guthrie's. What has people really concerned is this element of time here because the Guthrie family told the sheriff that Nancy Guthrie has medication that she can't go 24 hours without. From your experience, how does that put the pressure on? KATHERINE SCHWEIT, FORMER SENIOR FBI OFFICIAL: Yes. I worked -- I actually worked at kidnapping 25 years ago of an 88-year-old woman, similar circumstances. She was abducted from her home in the middle of the night. So, I guess I would send this message of hope out that five days after the kidnapping, she was recovered alive. And so that was encouraging.

But what we definitely know is that every hour counts. And as Josh was saying, you know, they're going in one direction, waiting for answers, or hoping to get a kidnapping letter. You're really going in two directions, law enforcement, it's all boots on the ground, federal, state, and local. As many people as you need to work at, you work at dozens and dozens and dozens of FBI agents. I can guarantee you are working on this along with the locals. And you're working in one direction to find her and you're working in the other direction hoping that they will reach out to you and make a kidnapping ransom note offer so that you can respond that way, hoping that one of those two avenues will give you the person back alive.

TAPPER: Katherine, do you think more federal support would be helpful? We heard in the last hour folks talking about how the U.S. Marshals can be really essential in tracking people down in situations like this.

SCHWEIT: Yes, I think that probably, as Josh said, no, no one actually knows what's going on, but having worked in a command post in one of these situations, there are no limits to the number of people.

So, I don't think it's a question of asking for more assistance from this agency or that agency as much work as it can be done, including like I've combed fields before as any agent has, as the other agents have and officers that you're mentioning have. So, I don't think it's necessarily a lack of resources in any way, in any -- whether it's federal or local. I think it's more like you can only have so many people do so many things and they're working as frantically as they can to get that done.

TAPPER: Josh Campbell and Katherine Schweit, thank you so much for your expertise. We appreciate it.

And anyone out there who has any information related to the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, including video or photos, or anything, you can submit a tip by dialing 1-800-CALL-FBI. That's 1- 800-CALL-FBI. You can also submit a tip online to local authorities at 88crime.org. That's 88 crime.org. And, once again, we here at The Lead are sending our love and our thoughts and prayers and best wishes to Savannah and her family.

A growing number of Republicans pushing back against comments from Trump's handpicked U.S. attorney, Jeanine Pirro, after she suggested she would target gun owners who come to D.C. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:25:00] TAPPER: Clean up on aisle Pirro. In our Law and Justice Lead, U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia Jeanine Pirro is attempting to clean up comments she made yesterday on Fox, which seemed to alarm Second Amendment advocates and gun rights enthusiasts. She released a video this morning attempting to clarify her stance on jailing legal gun owners.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEANINE PIRRO, U.S. ATTORNEY FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA: I am a proud supporter of the Second Amendment. I have guns myself.

We're taking guns off the street, illegal guns, in the hands of criminals who want to use those guns to victimize law-abiding citizens.

There's a big difference here. You're responsible. You follow the laws, you're not going to have a problem with me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Yes. So, that's not what she said yesterday. So, take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PIRRO: You bring a gun into the district, you mark my words, you're going to jail. I don't care if you have a license in another district, and I don't care if you're a law-abiding gun owner somewhere else. You bring a gun into this district, count on going to jail and hope you get the gun back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Let's discuss with Steve Gutowski. He is the founder of the Reload.com and a gun safety instructor. Stephen, thanks so much for joining us.

We should note that D.C. law requires gun owners to register their firearms with the District of Columbia, and the D.C government does not recognize concealed carry permits from other states. Is that what she meant, do you think? What do you make of her comments? I mean, it does seem like a contradiction what she said today and what she said yesterday.

STEPHEN GUTOWSKI, FOUNDER, THE RELOAD: Yes. Well, whether that's what she meant, what she said was that if you bring a gun into the district and you're from out of straight out of state, you're going to go to jail. And the reality is that Washington, D.C., issues non-resident permits, I actually have one, which make it legal to carry in the district if you're not from Washington, D.C. So, what she said is incorrect. And if she just meant that anyone without a D.C. non- resident permit will be arrested, that also poses problems for gun rights activists who strongly oppose the sort of laws that Washington, D.C., has and are strong allies of the president. TAPPER: So, Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche responded this morning saying that the administration would always protect Second Amendment rights, but this is not the first time we've heard it. Because after the shooting by Custom and Border Patrol agents of Alex Pretti, and he had a gun on him, although he wasn't -- he didn't have it in his hand or anything, there was all this outcry, from the FBI director and others, like don't bring a gun to a protest, don't bring a gun, et cetera, et cetera. We've seen anger from several prominent Republicans on this issue, you know, maybe it was a building up, Governor Ron DeSantis, Congressman Greg Steube.

[18:30:00]

Are Republicans mistrustful of the administration here based on all these comments?

GUTOWSKI: It certainly seems that they are at the moment. I think Pirro's comments are getting this amount of attention in part because it's kind of a snowball effect here. These weren't said in isolation. They were said after the comments that you just alluded to from the president, from Kash Patel, FBI director, from almost of them, the major Trump administration officials, even the treasury secretary and the transportation secretary were saying that line in interviews about Pretti being -- you know, a hidden carrying gun being nefarious. And that has bothered a lot of not just gun rights activists but also, yes, like you said, elected officials as well in the Republican Party.

TAPPER: So, I think one of the things that comes through is that it seems to be that they think, and this is just what I'm discerning from all these comments, is that Trump supporters have more of a Second Amendment right to carry guns than people who aren't necessarily Trump supporters, because I've never heard any of these arguments being made about any of the Trump supporters who came here on January 6th or protested COVID restrictions, et cetera, any of those people who were legally carrying guns to protest, I've never heard any of these arguments made by them. And I assume that people who are consistent on the Second Amendment, like you, find that problematic.

GUTOWSKI: Certainly. I mean, I do think there's something to the idea that the president was more willing to go after Alex Pretti for carrying a gun because he perceived him as somebody who's not on his team, right. Pretti was there to protest or record or yell at agents, immigration agents in Minneapolis. And so I think Trump views him as somebody who's not on his side and is more willing to make these sort of arguments.

And, additionally, I think it's also kind of the line that they perhaps thought was the best they had to defend the actions of these agents, which are really not justifiable based on everything we know at this point.

TAPPER: Stephen Gutowski, as always, thanks for your expertise. Thanks for your intellectual consistency. We appreciate it.

The brothers of Renee Good testified on Capitol Hill today weeks after an ICE agent shot and killed their sister in Minneapolis. What they hope can possibly come out of this tragedy, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:35:00]

TAPPER: In our National Lead, today on Capitol Hill, powerful testimony from several U.S. citizens about their aggressive encounters with federal immigration agents under the Trump administration. Here's just some of them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARIMAR MARTINEZ, WITNESS: And perhaps even worse, the mental scars will always be there, as a reminder of the time my own government attempted to execute me. And when fail, they choose to vilify me.

MARTIN DANIEL RASCON, WITNESS: I will never forget the fear and having to quickly duck my head as the shots were fired at the car. Any one of those bullets could have killed me or two people that I love.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Then there's Aliya Rahman. You see her on the screen there. She says she's a disabled person with autism and has a traumatic brain injury. DHS said she was arrested for obstruction after ignoring commands to move her vehicle away from a protest in Minneapolis last month.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALIYA RAHMAN, TESTIFIED ON ENCOUNTER WITH DHS: I now cannot lift my arms normally. I was never asked for I.D., never told I was under arrest, never read my rights, and never charged with a crime.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: This is how Rahman described her treatment inside the Bishop Henry Whipple Federal Building in Minneapolis, where she was taken after those immigration agents pulled her from her car.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAHMAN: I received no medical screening, phone call or access to a lawyer. I was denied a communication navigator when my speech began to slur.

Agents did not know if the facility had a wheelchair. When I was finally placed in one to be taken to interrogation, an agent taunted you were driving, right? So, your legs do work.

The last sounds I remember before I blacked out on the cell floor where my cellmate banging on the door pleading for a medic and a voice outside saying, we don't want to step on ICE's toes.

(END VIDEO CLIP) TAPPER: All of this comes, of course, amidst the killings of Renee Good and Alex Pretti, two U.S. citizens killed by immigration agents in Minneapolis last month.

Good's brothers also testified today. This is what one of the brothers said his daughter told him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LUKE GANGER, BROTHER OF RENEE GOOD: She knows that her aunt died and that somebody caused it to happen. She told me that there are no bad people and that everyone makes mistakes. She has Nee's spirit.

The deep distress our family feels because of Nee's loss is in such a violent and unnecessary way is complicated by feelings of disbelief, distress, and desperation for change.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Democratic Senator Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut hosted today's public forum and joins us now.

Senator, first of all, let me just ask you, you hosted a forum. This was not a bipartisan committee hearing, right? I mean, Republicans control the Senate right now. Did Republicans not want to hear from these American citizens?

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): Unfortunately, tragically, Republicans are in denial. They don't want to hear these stories, and they don't want to do the kind of action that these witnesses very powerfully asked us to do. Jake, this experience was one of the most moving and powerful of any I have seen in my 15 years in the United States Senate.

You know, we use the mantra, speak truth to power all too often.

[18:40:04]

These witnesses truly summon the courage and strength to speak truth to power. The Republicans have the power right now. They're in the majority in the Senate and in the House, and they have the White House, but they don't want to hear these stories from American citizens, every one of them an American citizen, everyone brutally harmed Ms. Martinez, five bullets going through her body, she almost bled to death. And I think that Republicans need to hear them.

TAPPER: So, I can almost anticipate what Karoline Leavitt or a Republican would say watching this, and she would say, well, you don't want to hear from the American citizens who are victimized by illegal immigrants who are in this country. How would you respond to that?

BLUMENTHAL: They should be heard as well. The Republicans should face facts here. As Ronald Reagan said, facts are stubborn things. But what we have in ICE and the Department of Homeland Security is an agency out of control, a paramilitary force. I have no words to describe what you saw on that video and that we have replayed in the course of our spotlight forums.

And we are going to continue our investigation. Representative Garcia and I, in a very objective and factual-based way, are giving a platform to these witnesses and other Americans have a right to be heard as well.

This story is about more than just Minneapolis. It spans the nation.

TAPPER: So, Democratic and Republican lawmakers sounded skeptical today that the two parties could reach a deal on changes to ICE in order to arrive at some sort of government funding bill. I want you to -- I want to play a little bit what Congresswoman Melanie Stansbury of New Mexico said at today's public forum.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MELANIE STANSBURY (D-MN): We need to defund and dismantle this agency immediately. And a bill just passed a few moments ago before we walked into this hearing room to give another two weeks to think about a deal. Now it's time to defund this. This has to end.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Do you agree and are you concerned that two weeks are not enough time to negotiate a Department of Homeland Security funding agreement?

BLUMENTHAL: I will vote against another dime for the Department of Homeland Security unless Republicans meet our demands for completely rebuilding, overhauling, and, in fact, reimagining the Department of Homeland Security. I will not vote for another dime unless there is reform top to bottom, and Kristi Noem goes from this agency. I believe very strongly we have a responsibility to make sure that this paramilitary force is stopped from violating the Constitution, exacting violence on our citizens. And I believe that we have -- two weeks is enough time.

And here's the reason, Jake. All my Republican colleagues have to do is ask their local police chiefs, what do you tell your cops on the beat is the right thing to do? Wearing badges, wearing body cameras, no masks, standards of accountability. And most important for me, and by the way, I was attorney general of the State of Connecticut, and I helped to advise police on what they should do. They should be subject to lawsuits, to legal redress from everyday citizens, like Ms. Martinez and the others on that panel, when their rights are violated. That kind of recourse is a strong deterrent, but it also enables people to have real rights. There are no real rights unless there are remedies.

TAPPER: Democratic Senator Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut, thank you, sir. I appreciate your time today.

After President Trump just suggested the federal government, or Republicans, rather, should take over elections in some states, in some areas, I'm going to get reaction from a former Republican senator who's going to join us live in studio, next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:48:12]

TAPPER: In our politics lead, President Trump, who regularly talks about exerting more power over state elections, has managed to stun even Washington, D.C., as he calls on Republicans to take over voting in 15 places where he lost, presumably Democratic or battleground states and/or counties.

Joining us now to discuss, the former Republican governor of Arkansas, Asa Hutchinson, and CNN political commentator Karen Finney.

So, Governor, you ran Arkansas. I almost called you congressman, because that's how I first met you. You ran Arkansas for eight years. What do you think about this call from President Trump for Republicans to go into 15 places where Democrats win and run the elections?

ASA HUTCHINSON, FORMER REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR OF ARKANSAS: Well, first of all, I think our system of elections, where the states run the elections has been very effective through history and the states are doing a good job. I believe in the 10th Amendment that if it's not reserved to the federal government, the states have that authority. Now, obviously, whenever you're looking at voter integrity, we've passed voter ID in Arkansas. Some states have done that, some haven't done that.

And so, whenever the president says that the states are an agent of the federal government --

TAPPER: Yeah.

HUTCHINSON: -- I don't accept that as a governor. Obviously, we're not agents. And our principle of federalism, we really have constitutional constraints. And that's true on the federal government.

TAPPER: So, Adam Kinzinger, former Republican congressman, pointed out earlier this hour that when Democrats during the Biden years were trying to pass voting reforms --

KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right.

TAPPER: -- the John Lewis Voting Rights Act and things like that, Republicans were all about, you can't impose on states voting laws. It's up for the states. And it is pretty true that the Congress -- I mean, sorry, the Constitution is pretty clear about who gets to make the rules in the states.

[18:50;00]

It's the states.

FINNEY: It's very clear. Look, I think the most important thing that Democrats can do couple twofold. One, we are taking Donald Trump at his word. Right? Our conservative friends keep saying, like, Donald Trump will tell you what he's going to do. Well, he says we should control these 15 states. He also said he

wished that in 2020, he wished he would have seized the voting machines. And look, he's been telling us what he wants to do. He's got Pam Bondi going after voter rolls in a number of states.

So, first of all, believe him. And so, you're already seeing groups start to take the legal actions. You're seeing secretaries of state and attorneys general saying you just saw it recently in Minnesota where they said, no, we're not going to hand over voter data. And in some instances, you're actually also seeing individuals start to sue for their own because it's your personal information you're trying to get.

So, part one is the legal recourse because that's been effective. But part two is we've got to make this an issue in the campaign. Whether or not you support the constitution and the idea that is very clear on a number of things about what our rights and freedoms are.

TAPPER: Let's turn to the fact that the president just signed the House-backed, sprawling government funding package. It will end the partial government shutdown.

I don't know if anybody out there noticed, but we're in a partial government shutdown. It will create a two-week extension of funding for the Department of Homeland Security.

And this is the real issue right now, is that Democrats are saying there need to be some restraints on ICE, and the Customs and Border Patrol agents, there need to be some rules, no masks, de-escalation tactics, and on and on. When you were at the Department of Homeland Security in the Bush Administration, you helped form the immigration. I don't know if it was called ICE back then, was it? It was --

HUTCHINSON: Yes. ICE was created whenever I was at Homeland Security, CBP and then ICE after we took over those agencies from the different departments of government.

TAPPER: Yeah.

HUTCHINSON: So, ICE started 20 years ago, and it's, you know, its mission then has been redefined today. Obviously, we were small compared to the FBI then. Now they have a budget larger than the FBI.

But let me just say, President Trump deserves some credit for making sure the government stays open. And while that's been a success, I think this increases leverage on the Democrats over the next two weeks as they negotiate about ICE, because now its narrowly focused on homeland security. Theres less at risk for them. It increases their negotiating power for some of the reforms that they want.

TAPPER: Do you -- do you think that there should be some reforms?

HUTCHINSON: I do, but I also would say that what I see in Minnesota, is that while there's excessive force there, there's also impediments being placed by citizens for ICE doing its job. Americans support the mission of immigration enforcement, but they don't support excessive and brutal tactics. And that's where I think there's got to be some oversight, some changes, some reforms that are made. I hope that the administration agrees to some of those and that we can get them funded.

TAPPER: So let me just -- so polls indicate that the American people are in a place where they support border enforcement. They support -- they support. I'm just talking about polls now.

FINNEY: Yes.

TAPPER: The vast majority support undocumented immigrants who are violent, who are criminals out of this country, but they also support some sort of legalized status and path forward and such. And they find these tactics that we see in Minnesota too much.

FINNEY: Yeah.

TAPPER: Are the Democrats there? Because, you know, we just played a clip of a congresswoman saying defund and destroy ICE.

FINNEY: Yeah. Look, I think there are -- there's a range of opinion at the at the same time where the public is and where I think we're going to be for most of this election, particularly because you're seeing independents move this way, which is there has to be more accountability.

And yes, some people are for defund. I don't think that's realistic. I don't think that's going to happen. The more strategically and politically, the better position is to fight for the kinds of accountability measures that actually Democrats are negotiating for.

But a couple of quick things. One, let's remember that members are hearing from their own constituents. So in terms of leverage, I think Democrats have quite a bit of leverage because even Republicans are hearing from people who are concerned about what they're seeing. And then lastly, this is going to play out, obviously, in the election, because people are very broadly concerned about what we've seen and the sort of trampling on people's rights connected to what we were just talking about on voting.

TAPPER: So great to have you both here. Thank you so much. Don't be a stranger, Governor.

Jill Biden's ex-husband is behind bars. He's accused of killing his current wife in December. What we're learning about the initial police call to their Delaware home, and the charge he's now facing.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:59:02]

TAPPER: Just into our health lead, Republican Senator Mitch McConnell, the former Republican leader, has been hospitalized after experiencing what his team calls flu like symptoms. A spokesman for the former senate majority leader says his prognosis is positive, and he looks forward to returning to work. McConnell's 83 years old. Our thoughts and prayers are with him and his family.

And our law and justice lead, the ex-husband, the first husband of former First Lady Jill Biden has been indicted on a murder charge. Seventy-seven-year-old William Stevenson was arrested in connection with the death of his wife, Linda Stevenson, 64. Authorities say Linda Stevenson was found unresponsive in their Delaware home back in December after police got a call about a domestic dispute. William Stevenson was married to the future Mrs. Biden from 1970 until their divorce in 1975.

In our out of this world lead, NASA is delaying the launch of Artemis II due to yesterday's hydrogen fuel leak. The launch window for the first manned mission around the moon in more than 50 years has been pushed to March at the earliest. Originally, NASA was hoping for a launch this Sunday.

You can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, Threads, X, Bluesky and on the TikTok @JakeTapper. You can follow the show on X and Instagram @TheLeadCNN. If you ever miss an episode of THE LEAD, you can watch the show on the CNN app.

Download the CNN app, everybody.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now. Take it away, Erin.