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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Source: FBI Searching For Items Person Seen On Guthrie's Doorbell Camera May Have Discarded; Man Detained In Guthrie Case Says He Wants To Clear His Name; TMZ: Note Demands Bitcoin In Exchange For Info On Guthrie Captor; Rep. Jason Crow (D-CO), Is Interviewed About Bondi, Democrats Trade Insults During Combative Hearing; 8 Dead, 25 Plus Injured In Canadian School Shooting. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired February 11, 2026 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: All right. Thanks to my panel for being here today. Really appreciate all of you. Thanks to you at home for watching as well. We always appreciate you.

And please do not go anywhere. Jake Tapper is so standing by for "The Lead" in Tucson, Arizona, where he's continuing to cover the desperate search for Nancy Guthrie. Jake.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Thanks, Kasie. We'll look for more in "The Arena" tomorrow.

HUNT: See you tomorrow.

[17:00:42]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Nearly 18,000 tips have come since Nancy Guthrie's disappearance. Authorities need just one, good one, to break the case. The Lead starts right now.

A flood of tips and even more after key photos and videos show a person armed and masked at Nancy Guthrie's front door early in the morning back on February 1st. Today, the new note demanding bitcoin in exchange for information about who the perpetrator is. Is this note even legitimate? And an expansive search 11 days into this heart wrenching tragedy.

And a heated congressional hearing with Attorney General Pam Bondi.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DAN GOLDMAN (D-NY): These are obviously improper redactions.

PAM BONDI, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Let me stop.

GOLDMAN: I'm talking.

BONDI: No, no. GOLDMAN: I'm talking.

BONDI: If they're not privileged -- GOLDMAN: Quiet.

BONDI: Don't yell at me. If they're not privileged --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Chairman, would you stop the clock --

(END VIDEO CLIP) TAPPER: From the Epstein files to immigration enforcement, just some

of the combative moments as lawmakers tried to get answers today.

And another horrific school shooting. Eight victims killed as police release brand new details about the shooter.

And welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper live outside the Pima County Sheriff's Department in Tucson, Arizona, where officials are continuing to field thousands, tens of thousands of tips that have come in the search for Nancy Guthrie, the mother of "Today" show anchor Savannah Guthrie, as well as her sister Annie and brother Camron. Nancy Guthrie missing now for 11 days. The sheriff's department here says that they've received more than 4,000 calls in just the last 24 hours since the FBI released six photos and three videos of an armed mask individual tampering with Nancy's doorbell camera on the early Sunday morning of February 1st when Nancy Guthrie disappeared. As hundreds of detectives and federal agents expand the search around Pima County, authorities have given no updates about a possible suspect or person of interest.

Last night, investigators did detain a man for questioning, later releasing him without charges. A source tells CNN that the man was on investigators radar before the release of the doorbell camera footage. The man who identified himself to the press as Carlos spoke with CNN this morning outside his mother-in-law's house where he lives with his wife and children. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you want from --

CARLOS, MAN INVESTIGATORS INVESTIGATE IN NANCY GUTHRIE'S CASE: To clear my name. That's all I want.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There had to maybe been something they told you as to how they got to you. How did they get to the real Reco (ph)? CARLOS: An anonymous -- an anonymous tip. That's what they said.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They thought you looked like that person in the video?

CARLOS: That's what they told my mother-in-law.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, really?

CARLOS: They showed her a video.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So they thought you were the suspect? CARLOS: Yes. 'Cause they said that my eyes and my eyelashes look the same.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Carlos told us that authorities searched his car and his mother-in-law's house and as of this morning still had his phone. CNN talked to his mother-in-law, Josefina (ph) last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSEFINA, CARLOS'S MOTHER-IN-LAW: I don't know anything about her. They only said that they gave a tip that she was in my house. And I told them, you can go in and search my house. There's nobody there. I have nothing to hide. There's nobody in my house and I don't know what's going on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Also today, TMZ reportedly received an e-mail from a person who claims to know the identity of the individual who abducted Nancy Guthrie. This individual is demanding one Bitcoin, which is worth about $67,000 in exchange for that information. TMZ says it handed over that letter to the FBI. I want to bring in CNN's Ed Lavandera who is outside Nancy Guthrie's house in Pima County.

Ed, what are you seeing as the investigation continues today?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, given all of the activity that we saw last night, today feeling very different here in Nancy Guthrie's neighborhood. However, we have seen in various parts of the neighborhood a number of FBI teams that have literally been walking the blocks and walking along the streets around this area, looking through the landscape, walking through cactus and walking through the brush here, looking for anything that might have like focused really on the ground, maybe perhaps something that would have been discarded from a passing car or that sort of thing. So they've like meticulously been walking throughout all of this neighborhood. That's been really the thrust of the activity that we have seen throughout the course of today.

[17:05:18]

And really beyond that, again, no clear information as to if there's any more of with all of those leads pouring in right now, if there's any more sense of -- a sense that there could be another person that they're looking at or a true suspect or a person of interest in this case. But that is what we're seeing at least visibly back here in the neighborhood. And it's striking that some of like this very tedious, just kind of walking along the street police work is what we're seeing here 11 days out.

TAPPER: Ed Lavandera, thank you so much. Joining us now to discuss is former FBI Assistant Director Frank Figliuzzi and CNN Senior Correspondent Josh Campbell, who previously served as a supervisory special agent with the FBI. Josh, let me start with you. The FBI said today that it's conducting an extensive search around Nancy Guthrie's neighborhood in the Catalina Foothills area today. You have some new reporting on what they might precisely be looking for. What is it?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: That's right. We've seen these agents now back out on the streets where you are there in the Tucson area. Law enforcement source familiar tells me that they're out there searching for any possible items that the man who was seen in that chilling video outside Nancy Guthrie home, he had those various items on him. Now they're concerned and looking to see, well, maybe did he throw those away, discard them as he was then leaving the scene there. And so they're going through in this very, you know, as Ed described, this tedious process looking for, you know, can they find the mask, can they find the gloves, the backpack, any of those items.

The goal is if they are able to recover them, to then analyze to see if there's any type of DNA they can extract and as they try to get an identification of who this person is. So very much a twofold effort right now. We have this public plea and appeal from law enforcement to the public for tips. But behind the scenes, they're still looking for that evidence and that one big break of the case. Jake.

TAPPER: Frank, are there parts of the videos or the still photos released yesterday or any other elements of this investigation that you think could lead law enforcement to believe that Nancy Guthrie is still being held in Tucson or the surrounding area?

FRANK FIGLIUZZI, FORMER ASST. DIRECTOR, FBI COUNTERINTELLIGENCE DIVISION: Yes, Jake, I could make a case either way here. So the case in favor of Nancy still being alive is that in the video we do see an individual who has some degree of preparation for this. Whether that preparation means he also planned several steps ahead, we don't know. But the fact that he was covered head toe, that he wanted to hide his identity, that he somehow gained access, this does lead to the possibility of a legit kidnap. I'm not sure about a legit ransom plan, but that does mean he or she could still be alive.

The argument against that could be that while he was prepared, he seems to be unplanned. And I'm pointing specifically to his seeming surprise with regard to the doorbell cam and the need to go, hey, let me go grab some brush and see if that works. That's not a lot of planning. And I'm hoping against hope that he didn't just go in with some intent to harm and things went awfully bad and this whole thing about ransom is a mere afterthought or a cover for something else.

TAPPER: Yes. And Frank, on the -- on the gentleman that was detained overnight and questioned in connection and then completely released. He calls himself Carlos. He says he was held in handcuffs from 4:00 p.m. last night, Mountain Time here in Arizona to 12:00 a.m. He was not read his Miranda rights for two hours.

Are tactics like that typical when questioning a subject during a case like this? And what do you make of the fact that they released him? They let him keep his phone. His mother-in-law, let law enforcement search the house. What's your read on this all? FIGLIUZZI: Boy it's sloppy and messy, Jake. It's not ideal, but you have exigent circumstances, you have a life and death situation. Would I like to see this handled differently? Yes. If he's telling the truth that he was handcuffed for hours without Miranda rights, we know that Miranda versus Arizona says if you have custody plus interrogation you need Miranda rights.

So something's not right with this picture. I don't know if Pima County rushed it. I don't know if the FBI was initially in on that plan or not. But they need to back up and use some of the FBI techniques and gadgets that would allow you to surveil a home and know what's going inside before you hit it. [17:10:03]

TAPPER: Josh, TMZ reports that they received a letter via e-mail from someone who purports to know who the kidnapper is. But they're demanding a single bitcoin worth about $67,000 in exchange for the information. How seriously do you think investigators should take this bitcoin part of these mysterious e-mails that media outlets are getting in this specific claim?

CAMPBELL: Well, the FBI has said that it is going to take every lead they get seriously. But, you know, I don't know, Jake, here. I think we need a lot more information to fully assess whether this is something that is verifiable and valid in this case. We know, sadly, in these notorious kidnapping, high profile cases, sometimes authorities will get tips that end up being relevant. Sometimes they get tips from people who, you know, maybe are just sending it with the best of intentions, but then they don't actually relate to the case.

And then kind of this third category that we've been talking about since these purported ransom notes started surfacing, and that's people that, you know, for sinister reasons or just to cause mischief, simply try to gum up the system and, you know, slow down the investigation. And so I think we have a lot more to do before we, you know, give credit to this. It's also worth pointing out that even after those purported ransom notes, there still hasn't appeared to be any communication between the person who sent them and the family. So I think TBD on that as authorities wait to determine whether that's actually applicable here. TAPPER: And Frank, the sheriff's department here says that there --

there's not going to be a news conference unless there's a significant development in the case and something to actually share everything that unfolded yesterday with the new image, a person detained, that all seemed pretty significant to me. Why would they not have a public update?

FIGLIUZZI: So when you -- in law enforcement, when you go through press conference training, they do tell you, don't hold a press conference if you've got nothing to say. It's going to work against you. But you know, you brought up a good point, Jake, which is when you've also done something very high profile and public that hasn't panned out, you really don't want to have to answer questions about it. So that's factoring in as well.

TAPPER: Yes. Frank Figliuzzi and Josh Campbell, thanks to both of you for your expertise and your time today.

And you at home, if you have any information about the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, if you have any information about the individual seen on that video and those still photographs, there are multiple ways you can share your information with authorities. You can call the Pima County Sheriff's Department right behind me at 520-351-4900. That's 520-351-4900. Or the FBI at 1-800-CALL-FBI, 1-800-CALL-FBI. And you can also reach the agency online at tips.fbi.gov. That's tips.fbi.gov.

It has been more than 24 hours since the release of the six photos and three videos in the case from Nancy Guthrie's camera on her porch. How are investigators building a profile? Well, my next guest is an expert in forensic videos will tell us about that. Later here on The Lead, an Epstein survivor will be here, one who was at that combative congressional hearing earlier today with Attorney General Pam Bondi. What did she make of today's testimony?

What did she make of those exchanges? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:17:07]

TAPPER: And we're back in our national lead. We're live from Tucson, Arizona, right outside the Pima County sheriff's office. The chilling surveillance photos and videos released yesterday showing an armed masked individual outside Nancy Guthrie's home back in the early morning hours on Sunday, February 1st. They're not just a nightmare. They're the biggest break so far in the disappearance of the 84-year- old.

And they may offer investigators important clues about her kidnapper's identity. So what might those clues be? Let's bring in Edward Baker, who specializes in analyzing forensic videos such as these.

Edward, thanks for having us. It's been more than 24 hours since the FBI released these images and videos. They're pretty decent quality, as far as I can tell, compared especially with other ones that have led to the capture of alleged murderers. Law enforcement has worked with a lot less and successfully found suspects. Luigi Mangione, for example.

As an expert who analyzes video, can you explain the process of how to enhance these images and what the FBI might be able to learn about this individual?

EDWARD BAKER, LEVA CERTIFIED FORENSIC VIDEO ANALYST: Sure, sure. Thank you for having me, Jake. Well, everything starts out as a research project. So if we, as law enforcement did, get our hands on the video, we as analyst will assess the video and determine the quality of the video. What are the characteristics of the video?

How was the video recorded? In what format? And are there artifacts or compression involved in that recording process? Once we determine that, then we look at the visual aspect of that. What's the fidelity of the video?

What's the quality? What kind of details or pixel resolution are we working with? What's the pixel density in certain critical areas like the face or the backpack or the gloves or things of that nature? So that opportunity with this particular video has done a couple of things for us. One is it's done exactly what law enforcement was hoping for, and that's generating a lot of tips.

The thing that we have to be careful of as analyst or even for the public's information is there's some aspects of that video, when you visually look at it, that you have to throw caution to the wind. And what I'm talking about specifically is that that camera has a IR filter, which allows that camera to see at night. The part we have to be careful with is the effects of that IR light, meaning that that jacket that that subject is wearing could be red, it could be blue, it could be white. But because of the IR effects on clothing or organic materials, it changes color. It may make the zipper look different than what it actually looks like in normal lighting conditions.

So with that said, we want to, you know, be careful as analyst to put out observations without a -- without a caveat or a disclaimer, if you will, that keep in mind this appears to look like this, but in real life, it may look slightly different. [17:20:10]

TAPPER: There are a lot of well meaning, no doubt, but let's just say inexperienced individuals on social media who are taking these images and running it through AI and putting out videos where the person has a red jacket or a blue jacket or a green jacket. But I wonder, is there actually a way forensic experts such as yourself to actually determine the colors based on the video we saw that appears to be black and white, but can it be done to figure out what those exact colors are, either getting a Nest camera and going to the scene itself and figuring it out or some other way?

BAKER: Yes, there's -- there are techniques. I mean, if you took the video on its own and tried to reverse engineer the effects of the infrared light, that would be very difficult if not impossible to do. However, what law enforcement does in situations like that is if they have suspect clothing or, you know, an article of that type, they can bring it back to the scene under the same conditions and hold it up in front of the camera, giving us a baseline in which to compare to. And that would be very helpful in determining some of the unique characteristics or the class characteristics that are on or seen in that garment. It would also give us an understanding of perhaps what skin tones or even tattoos may look like in those conditions.

So, you know, I understand law enforcement's asking for the public's help, but we have to kind of tread lightly and inform, you know, the public that, look, this may be your perception what those clothing articles look like, but it may not, again, be what they appear in, you know, real conditions. So we want to be careful as that analysts that we're not, you know, putting to -- you know, putting out information that may change over time because that information can come back --

TAPPER: Yes. BAKER: -- and backfire on us later on, you know. So, we've got to be careful with that.

TAPPER: Edward Baker, thank you so much. Appreciate your expertise and your time today.

This programming note, Laura Coates is working on an entire special breaking down the Nancy Guthrie disappearance, this horrific mystery. You could look for that tonight at eight -- 11:00 p.m. Eastern, 9:00 p.m. Mountain Time here in Arizona, only here on CNN and on the CNN streaming app.

Next here on The Lead, chaos and contention on Capitol Hill. Take a listen to the explosive exchanges as Attorney General Pam Bondi sat for testimony.

And this just in, the top Republican in the U.S. Senate breaking with the Trump Justice Department in its attempt to prosecute six Democratic lawmakers who made that controversial video urging members of the military to remember they do not have to obey illegal orders. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:27:03]

TAPPER: We're back with you from Tucson, Arizona, right outside the Pima County Sheriff's Office. We're going to have much more on the search for Nancy Guthrie in just a minute. But we do want to get to another major story in our law and justice lead a long and explosive hearing today on Capitol Hill as Attorney General Pam Bondi took questions from the House Judiciary Committee, Democrats and Republicans and -- hurled a lot of insults at the Democrats on the committee when it came to multiple controversy -- controversies, including the Justice Department's release of the Jeffrey Epstein files and the fatal shootings of Alex Pretti and Renee Good in Minneapolis. And how the Justice Department has been used to target the president's political foes. CNN's Paula Reid breaks down the contentious hearing for us now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BONDI: This guy has Trump derangement syndrome. PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In her

first appearance before House lawmakers, Attorney General Pam Bondi played to an audience of one.

BONDI: He is the most transparent president in the nation's history. And none of them, none of them ask Merrick Garland over the last four years one word about Jeffrey Epstein. How ironic is that? You know why?

REID (voice-over): Lawmakers repeatedly pressed her on the Department of Justice's handling of the Epstein files and the impact on survivors. REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL (D-WA): Will you turn to them now and apologize for what your Department of Justice has put them through with the un -- absolutely unacceptable release of the Epstein files and their information?

BONDI: Congresswoman, you sat before -- Merrick Garland sat in this chair twice.

JAYAPAL: Attorney General Bondi -- BONDI: Twice. No. Can I finish my answer?

JAYAPAL: -- I'm going to -- no. I'm going to reclaim my time because I asked you specific question --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The attorney general can answer -- the attorney general can respond to your question.

JAYAPAL: -- that I would like to answer, which is, will you turn to the survivors -- REID (voice-over): Republican Thomas Massie grilled her on redaction

mistakes that he says exposed survivors and protected perpetrators.

REP. THOMAS MASSIE (R-KY): These are the documents that we need that you're holding on to and over redacting because they have the names of the men who are implicated. How do we know? Because the survivors gave testimony to the FBI.

REID (voice-over): But Bondi came armed with personalized insults for any lawmaker that pressed her on an issue she did not want to discuss. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I told you about that attorney general before

you started --

BONDI: You don't tell me anything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Oh, I did tell you, because we saw what you did in the Senate.

BONDI: You get a lawyer. Not even a lawyer.

REID (voice-over): And the hearing swiftly devolved into a series of shouting matches.

BONDI: I want to answer the question (inaudible) --

REP. JERROLD NADLER (D-NY): No. You answer the question the way I asked it. How many have you --

BONDI: Chairman Jordan, I'm not going to get in the gutter with these people. If they could maintain their composure. This isn't a circus. This is a hearing.

[17:30:00]

REID (voice-over): Most Republicans use their time to pivot back to Bondi's preferred topics, immigration and violent crime.

REP. SCOTT FITZGERALD (R-WI): Overwhelmingly elected President Trump, securing our border and enforcing our immigration laws.

REID (voice-over): Bondi was also pressed on how she has used the traditionally independent agency to pursue the President's political adversaries.

REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD), RANKING MEMBER, JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Trump orders up prosecutions like pizza and you deliver every time.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

REID: Now there was one area of bipartisan consensus and that was the seriousness of threats being made against lawmakers. The Attorney General agreed that they have to work across the sides of the aisle on that issue. But that was the only area of bipartisanship. Jake, I've been covering these hearings for over a decade. I have never seen anything like that.

TAPPER: All right, Paula Reid, thank you so much.

Let's dig a little bit more into today's hearing. Democratic Congressman Jason Crow of Colorado joins us now. Congressman Massie further underscored the challenge for lawmakers still to see material due to heavy redactions. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. THOMAS MASSIE (R-KY), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: And what happens when you go to the portal at the DOJ to look at what's behind this redaction? Another redaction. So we can't even see them. And then there's some of these files you've pulled down from the website that we will never see.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So now that all lawmakers can go to the Justice Department to view redacted material in the Epstein files, even though some of it remains redacted, have you done so yet? Is Congressman Massie's assertion accurate that many of the redactions are just simply on top of other redactions?

REP. JASON CROW (D-CO): Jake, the first priority for that review is to members of the Judiciary Committee, which I don't sit on. But as your video just showed, you know, Pam Bondi's place in history is going to be as the attorney general, who is one of the greatest defenders of pedophiles and sexual abusers in American history. And her place in history will also be as the person that turned America's Justice Department into a political hatchet operation for Donald Trump's opponents.

TAPPER: What do you think Attorney General Bondi and the Justice Department should be doing that they are not doing when it comes to the Epstein files? What is your assertion to her, if you could talk directly to her?

CROW: Well, how about they actually release the names of these sexual abusers, right? America deserves accountability, the victims, more than anybody else, deserve accountability. This is the largest sexual abuse scandal in American history, and it goes to the top of government, of business, of industry. And there are people who are hiding behind anonymity, hiding behind these redactions still to this day.

They're being protected by Donald Trump, protected by Pam Bondi. And in fact, we now know that Donald Trump's name came up upwards of a million times in these files. So America deserves the truth. Release the files. Let's make sure we do so in a way that protects the victims, of course. But release the files so we can pursue accountability against these perpetrators.

TAPPER: Let's turn to the video you made recently with five other congressional Democrats urging troops to remember that they do not have to, in fact, they are obligated to not follow unlawful orders. So yesterday, the D.C. Attorney General, the D.C. U.S. Attorney, rather, former "Fox News" host Jeanine Pirro, tried to indict you and your five colleagues over this issue.

But a D.C. grand jury did something very unusual, rather unheard of until the Trump administration, at least this second time, and they rejected it. They failed to deliver an indictment. What did you make of that?

CROW: Well, every American should be appalled by how Pam Bondi and Jean Pirro are doing the President's bidding and turning America's justice system into a weapon to attack Donald Trump's opponents. And that's clearly what they did, right? You know, I served three combat tours in Iraq and Afghanistan as a paratrooper and an army ranger, as you know, Jake. And there is nothing sensational about folks reminding service members to follow the law and the Constitution. Like, that is basic military 101, actually.

That's what I trained my soldiers on every time I deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan. What's more is it's not just our right, but it's our duty as members of Congress. It's actually why Congress exists, is to make sure that the presidency and the executive branch follow the law.

It's what the Constitution made Congress to do, to make sure the laws were followed, taxpayer money is spent wisely, and a rogue, lawless presidency like this doesn't run away without accountability. So, you know, listen, here's the bottom line. They tried to intimidate and bully and threaten us. They chose the wrong people. It's going to backfire. We're not backing down from our duty. The American people know it, and the tide is turning.

[17:35:01]

TAPPER: The leader of the Senate, Republican Majority Leader John Thune of South Dakota, he just told CNN that he does not think that you and your fellow five Democratic lawmakers should have faced prosecution, but he blamed you and your colleagues for bad actions. What's your response?

CROW: Well, my response is they need to actually remind themselves what the United States Congress exists for. We are here to serve as an oversight and a check on the presidency. We are here to make sure people follow the law. And as a combat veteran, now a member of Congress, I know that I have no higher sacred obligation to make sure I'm protecting service members, that I have their back.

That is the message of our video, is that your obligation is to the Constitution and to the rule of law, not to any one man, not to any one president, but to follow the law and the Constitution. And we have a President that continues to threaten to use our military in unlawful ways, whether it's shooting protesters in Lafayette Square, going to war with the city of Chicago, sending troops to polling stations, which he's repeatedly threatened to do, which is against U.S. criminal law, or even on occasions threatening to kill the children and family members of terrorists, which would be a violation of the Geneva Conventions and would be murder. So if he does any one of those things, we will have people's back if they do the right thing.

TAPPER: Congressman Jason Crow, Democrat of Colorado, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

One Epstein survivor who was at today's hearing is going to join us next. Hear her take on what was answered, how it was answered, what was left unsaid. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:40:44]

TAPPER: Welcome back to The Lead, live from outside the Pima County Sheriff's Department in Tucson, Arizona. We're going to have much more ahead in the search for Nancy Guthrie, the missing mother of "NBC News Today Show" anchor, Savannah Guthrie.

But we're also going to continue with our Law and Justice Lead today and more on Attorney General Pam Bondi's rather contentious House Judiciary Committee hearing earlier today, specifically on how the Department is handling the release of the Jeffrey Epstein files and her response to criticism from Democrats. Here now we want to bring in people who have skin in the game. Danielle Bensky, she's an Epstein survivor, victimized when she was just 17 years old.

Also with us, Lauren Hersh, who's National Director at World Without Exploitation. Both were in the room for today's hearing with Attorney General Bondi. So Danielle, that was a tense and combative hearing and let me start with the question we ask, we start with every time. How are you? That must have been unpleasant to be part of and also unpleasant to have your suffering be a political football.

DANIELLE BENSKY, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: Yes, it's exhausting. I mean, we've said so many times that this is not a political game for us, that we are human first. And I think the complete lack of empathy that she showed for not just Epstein and Maxwell survivors, but for survivors as a whole was really disgraceful. She had multiple moments where she could have turned around and just acknowledged the fact that we were there and the fact that we are human and she just chose not to.

TAPPER: So early in the hearing, Democratic Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal asked you and your fellow survivors, your sister survivors to stand. We're going to show that moment right now. She also asked the Attorney General to turn and to apologize to you and the other survivors. Instead of that, there was a heated exchange that took place.

The Attorney General said she wasn't going to, "get into the gutter" or she wasn't going to do theatrics. What was it like standing in the back of that room while that all took place?

BENSKY: I mean, I'm sure we all had tons of different feelings. Survivors are not a monolith, but for me it was pure rage. And the rage comes out in ways that you like, I could feel myself shaking with anger and frustration because it's bad enough that the redaction process was what it was. I feel like we've been re-victimized over and over again. But she also is just gaslighting the American people over and over by not answering direct questions. And so it was just another moment where our humanity was just not even considered.

TAPPER: In her opening remarks, Attorney General Bondi did say this to survivors. I want to play this. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAM BONDI, ATTORNEY GENERAL: I have spent my entire career fighting for victims and I will continue to do so. I am deeply sorry for what any victim, any victim has been through, especially as a result of that monster. I want you to know that any accusations of criminal wrongdoing will be taken seriously and investigated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Laura -- what's your response to that, Lauren?

LAUREN HERSH, NATIONAL DIRECTOR, WORLD WITHOUT EXPLOITATION: Let's get those investigations going. The files are clear. We're seeing so much evidence and so many investigative leads and now it's on the DOJ to do their job and investigate those leads.

BENSKY: Yes.

TAPPER: Danielle, Congressman Lou Correa of California also asked you and your fellow survivors to stand up. Take a listen to what he also had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. LOU CORREA (D-CA), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Can you please raise your hand if you think after everything you've heard today you feel that AG, the Feds have your back? Do we have your back?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Danielle, not a single person raised their hand. Not a person single person, not a single one of you guys one of you survivors thought that she had your back. What message do you think that sends to other victims of sexual abuse out there? BENSKY: Yes, there's been a chilling effect. I think even through this process, you've seen the redactions be what they are and I think that it is trying to silence survivors so it just feels -- I don't -- you know, it just feels terrible to be honest with you. But I do want to go back to an earlier point she did say something about investigations, right? And so we -- this is the first any of us have heard about any sort of investigations whatsoever like none of us have spoken to the DOJ. I think we've all lost faith in the DOJ to be honest.

[17:45:28]

But these investigations that she was talking about, OK, we need the when, the where, the why, the how, like we want to know more about that. So let's talk about it, right?

TAPPER: Yes, on that matter of investigations the committee's top democrat Jamie Raskin of Maryland asked Attorney General Bondi if she'd be willing to create a joint task force with the state attorneys generals out there to investigate the crimes that have taken place but instead of answering that question or others, this is what she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BONDI: He called Chase Mulligan a wild goose chase and didn't even know who he was. He is a defendant in your own district who preyed on girls.

RASKIN: Well you know what, if he were part of the Epstein investigation, you wouldn't do anything about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So Chase Mulligan I guess is a defendant in a completely separate issue and if he committed crimes obviously the full force of the law should be brought against him but he's not relevant per se to the Epstein investigation. Lauren, what was your response to that?

HERSH: I mean we saw a lot of that today, Jake. We saw a lot -- we want to talk about one thing and then Attorney General Bondi goes in a totally different direction. We came in and the survivors came in with the hope that we could have a serious conversation to ultimately get to the truth and get to justice and what we got was just a lot of nonsense. It's really time for course correction for the DOJ and we've got to start getting questions answered and we've got to start getting these investigations started.

TAPPER: And just to reiterate this, Dani, if all the parties were reversed in this and it was the Democrats who were giving the answers, the Democratic Attorney General and all that, Republicans asking the tough questions, you would be here right now saying the same stuff, right? This has nothing to do with political affiliation.

BENSKY: It's never been about political affiliation and in fact we're taking all of these meetings with both parties, with both sides and we've spoken to so many congressional leaders on the Republican side where these meetings have gone so well, they're really lovely and really receptive and then we walk out and there's no action taken. So I think on the part of survivors that's where we're getting so frustrated, right? Is that there's this total disconnect that keeps happening where we take a meeting, they say we're on your side, we shake your hand, we're here for you and then we go to the press conference this morning where we were hoping that so many Republicans would stand in solidarity with us as well and we had one Republican show up. So that's where it starts to feel like what are the promises that you made?

TAPPER: Yes. Partisanship is a hell of a drug and it tends to remove the humanity from people Dani Bensky, we appreciate you, Lauren Hersh we appreciate you, thanks so much for being here. And Dani, thank you for your courage as always, I know this must be awful to have to come on T.V. and talk about but it is so important and we really appreciate your courage.

BENSKY: Thank you, Jake.

[17:48:40]

TAPPER: Coming up next, that horrific school shooting that rocked us a small Canadian town. Authorities have just revealed new details about the shooter, stay with us.

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TAPPER: We're back live in Tucson, Arizona as investigators are pouring over tips in the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie. At the same time we're also following shocking developments in our World Lead. The small community of Tumbler Ridge in Western Canada, that's about 800 miles north of Seattle, Washington in the U.S. That community now grappling with the aftermath of a mass shooting at a high school. Today we learn new details about the victims and the shooter as CNN's Paula Newton reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER DWAYNE MCDONALD, BRITISH COLUMBIA ROYAL CANADIAN MOUNTED POLICE: On arrival there was active gunfire. And as officers approached the school rounds were fired in their direction.

PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Tonight, new details about a deadly mass shooting in a small tight-knit community in Tumbler Ridge, Canada. Mobile phone messages warned of an active shooter describing the suspect as a woman wearing a dress with brown hair.

DARIAN QUIST, TUMBLER RIDGE SENIOR: The alarm went off that I've never heard before and our principal goes throughout the halls and she's saying people close your doors, lockdown, stuff like that. I didn't -- I think -- I thought it was a secure and hold and something like that at first so. But once things started circulating we realized how serious it really was. NEWTON (voice-over): The town's high school was in lockdown. Students barricading themselves in classrooms, local journalists conveying the terror now rippling through the small town.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I talked to a concerned parent who's here waiting. He got a call from his son who is sheltering in place in the gym. And he's just waiting to hear from his other kid. And is quite rightly nervous.

NEWTON (voice-over): Authorities say police arrived within minutes but found six victims already dead at the school, at least 27 injured. The suspect, identified as 18-year-old Jesse Van Rootselaar was also found dead in the school of a self-inflicted injury. Two other victims, Rootselaar's mother and a sibling were found dead at a nearby home. Police say a long gun and a modified handgun were used and disclosed that authorities were called to the suspect's home several times for mental health emergencies and firearms offences and they are no closer to settling on a motive.

[17:55:13]

MCDONALD: There's been much speculation within the community regarding the relationship between the shooter and some of the victims. All of that remains part of the active and ongoing investigation.

NEWTON (voice-over): Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney visibly shaken and teary-eyed, expressing the profound grief now felt right across the country.

MARK CARNEY, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: It's obviously a very difficult day for the nation. This morning, parents, grandparents, sisters, brothers in Tumbler Ridge will wake up without someone they love. The nation mourns with you. Canada stands by you.

NEWTON (voice-over): Authorities are now surging resources to the area, including investigative support. Local leaders describe the community as stricken as Canada enters a full week of official mourning.

Paula Newton, CNN, Ottawa.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: Here in Arizona, brand new video, authorities just moments ago searching a brush area near the home of Nancy Guthrie. The focus of their investigation today, next.

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