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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Colbert Says CBS Scrapped Interview After Trump FCC's Threats; No Match In FBI Database For DNA On Glove Found Near Guthrie Home; Iran's Supreme Leader Threatens To Sink Aircraft Carrier Ahead Of Talks With U.S.; Civil Rights Leader Rev. Jesse Jackson Dead At Age 84; DHS Spokesperson Tricia McLaughlin To Step Down; Six Companies Linked To Former Duchess Of York Shutting Down Amid Release Of Epstein Files. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired February 17, 2026 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR: And a big thanks to my panel here. You can now stream The Arena live or catch up wherever you want whenever you want on the CNN app. Just scan that QR code below. You can also catch up by listening to The Arenas podcast and follow the show on X, Instagram and at the arenacnn.

Jake Tapper is here. He's standing by for The Lead.

Jake, hi. Great to see you. JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Good to see you, Abby. I'm so glad I read your

amazing Jesse Jackson book --

PHILLP: Thank you.

TAPPER: -- because I feel like I'm pretty sure prepared for the historic nature of today. Thank you so much for writing in and we're going to look for more tomorrow in "The Arena."

PHILLIP: Thank you, Jake.

[17:00:33]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: No notable DNA match in the Guthrie missing person's case. So now what? The Lead starts right now.

DNA on a glove found two miles from the home of Nancy Guthrie does not match anyone in the FBI's criminal database and did not match DNA found in Guthrie's home. Coming up, what the next investigative steps could look like to find the mother of "Today" show anchor Savannah Guthrie. Plus, new tributes for civil rights icon, the Reverend Jesse Jackson, a two time presidential candidate who paved the way for so many progressives and African Americans who came after him. But first, "The Late Show" host, Stephen Colbert taking on the FCC and CBS lawyers over an interview that network lawyers advised him not to air.

Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.

We're going to start in our politics lead and look at the Trump administration's increasing pressure campaign against broadcast networks and how it continues to impact what you see and don't get to see on television. Last night, "Late Show" host Stephen Colbert taped an interview with Texas State Representative James Talarico. He's a Democratic candidate in the Senate primary in Texas. But Colbert says CBS lawyers stepped in before the interview that they pre-taped could actually air on broadcast television.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN COLBERT, "THE LATE SHOW" HOST: We were told in no uncertain terms by our network's lawyers who called us directly that we could not have him on the broadcast. Then, then I was told in some uncertain terms that not only could I not have him on, I could not mention me not having him on. And because my network clearly doesn't want us to talk about this, let's talk about this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Colbert says this all stems from recent threats from the Republican led Federal Communications Commission, known as the FCC, for background, there is an old regulation known as the equal time provision which would require broadcast networks to give equal airtime to all legally qualified candidates for public office, meaning if one is featured, his or her rivals have to be given the same amount of time. Equal time. There are big exemptions for news coverage, and for the past two decades that exemption has also been applied to late night and daytime talk shows. This all started in 2006 when the FCC officially gave that exemption to the interview segments of the "Tonight Show" with Jay Leno. That was a break from the previous 1960 ruling by the FCC about the "Tonight Show" with Jack Paar.

Now, FCC Chairman Brendan Carr issued guidance last month cautioning networks that regardless of the Leno Ruling from 2006, daytime and late night T.V. talk shows will not be automatically considered bonafide news programs exempt from equal time rules, particularly if, in Carr's view, the program is a, quote, "program that is motivated by partisan purposes," unquote, which based on past editorial comments by Carr seems to be a fairly expansive group of shows. Though we should note Carr is also not applying the equal time rule to talk radio, which tends to tilt rightward. Colbert on his show addressed Brendan Carr directly.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLBERT: Well sir, you're chairman of the FCC, so FCC you. Let's just call this what it is. Donald Trump's administration wants to silence anyone who says anything bad about Trump on T.V. because all Trump does is watch T.V.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Now we should note that this afternoon CBS issued a statement saying, quote, "The Late Show was not prohibited by CBS from broadcasting the interview with Rep. James Talarico. The show was provided legal guidance that the broadcast could trigger the FCC equal-time rule for two other candidates, including Representative Jasmine Crockett, and presented options for how the equal time for other candidates could be fulfilled. "The Late Show" decided to present the interview through its YouTube channel with on air promotion on the broadcast rather than potentially providing the equal time options," unquote.

CBS is referring to the equal time rule only applying to broadcast. So Colbert show posted the Talarico interview on YouTube. In this interview that never saw the light of day on broadcast television, Talarico accused Republicans and the Trump administration of perpetual their own version of cancel culture.

[17:05:05]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES TALARICO, (D) TEXAS STATE SENATOR: They went after "The View" because I went on there. They went after Jimmy Kimmel for telling a joke they didn't like. They went after you for telling the truth about Paramount's bribe to Donald Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: You'll remember last year, the previous owners of CBS Paramount paid $16 million to resolve an extraordinary lawsuit filed by Trump over a 60 minute news report, an interview with Kamala Harris, some Democratic senators and critics called the payment by Paramount a bribe or a backdoor deal so Paramount could get Trump administration approval, FCC approval for the Skydance Media merger. The president denied that the 60 minute settlement had anything to do with his administration's approval of the merger. We should note the current owners of Paramount want to buy Warner Brothers Discovery, which is our parent company here at CNN.

Let's discuss with Bill Carter and Jonah Goldberg, editor of The Dispatch.

Bill, do you think the CBS lawyers were overreacting by however aggressively they gave that guidance to Stephen Colbert about giving Talarico's opponents or do you think their concerns are legitimate given how the FCC has been behaving since Brendan Carr took over?

BILL CARTER, FORMER MEDIA REPORTER, NEW YORK TIMES: Well, well, you know, Gordon put this into effect. He said it could happen. And they said to, even their statement, that this could trigger the equal time rule. So they were saying sort of in advance this could happen. And really, if you're in Colbert's position, what do you take from that?

You take from that they're telling you what to do. They've already canceled you. They've already said what they think about your free speech rights. So I think he was obviously interpreting it that way and it's legalese probably, but it sounds to me like there was a little intimidation involved. So were they overreacting?

I mean, it's interesting because Talarico is running in a primary against another Democrat. So it doesn't seem like, you know, triggering the rule to have Jasmine Crockett. She's already been on Colbert. It's not like that would have been such a major event. But it just does seem like they wanted to lay down the rules now because, you know, primary season and then election season is coming up and they don't want Colbert probably booking guests that will rile Donald Trump because this is about not having a critic of Donald Trump have it free, have his free speech rights. That's what I've interpreted it all along.

TAPPER: Jonah, what do you think?

JONAH GOLDBERG, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, so this is one of these things where, you know, I've hated the equal time rule for a really long time and I -- you know, I thought it was basically, as they say in "Princess Bride," mostly dead anyway. And so the idea on the politics of this -- this actually was very good for Talarico, right? There's this thing that people call the Streisand effect --

TAPPER: Yes.

GOLDBERG: -- where you protest a little bit about something, and the protesting of it actually amplifies the message more than if you just ignored it. The interview got far more views on social media and on YouTube than it would have if it just aired as just the normal appearance on the show. And so in some ways, this was a gift for Talarico, and it was also a gift for Colbert, who was looking for opportunities to stick his thumb in the eye at CBS and of Trump. And this whole thing, I mean, I'm not saying that they don't deserve to have their thumbs in -- have the thumbs in their eyes, but the whole thing was sort of set up as a perfect storm where everybody kind of comes out a winner in this.

TAPPER: Bill, do you think that this will have a chilling effect on other shows, other late night shows and other talk shows like "The View" or whatever?

CARTER: Well, that's the -- that seems to be the point. Jake, there aren't that many shows here that will be infected by this because Kimmel and "The View" have been critical of Trump. So they -- and Seth Meyers, obviously. But if you go further than that, there aren't many T.V. shows, which, as you pointed out, makes this even more strange because if CBS was in a different situation that they are in and they wanted to fight this, they could have gone to a court and said, how can you put this rule on us and not radio? They're doing the same thing. And there's thousands of stations that are conservative talk radio, and there's no way that they would force the rule against them.

So it does seem like selective regulation against them. So I'm surprised that maybe ABC will do that if they go after Kimmel again. But frankly, I just think that it's embarrassing. It really is embarrassing to me that you have Trump reacting to this small cadre of critics. Every president has been criticized by late night T.V., only this one wants to sick his FCC on them.

TAPPER: Jonah, I want to play something else that Talarico said in that interview with Stephen Colbert that I saw on YouTube, not on CBS.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TALARICO: This is the party that ran against cancel culture. And now they're trying to control what we watch, what we say, what we read. And this is the most dangerous kind of cancel culture, the kind that comes from the top.

[17:10:00]

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So you and I are old enough to remember, Jonah, that when Trump was elected in 2024 that there was a huge hue and cry from conservatives and libertarians that there would be free speech. And in fact, Trump said something about that, I think, in his address to a joint session of Congress that finally there's going to be free speech returned. It doesn't really seem that way. And even with this news exemption, he goes after news shows all the time.

GOLDBERG: Yes. I mean, it's funny, you know, Marco Rubio just gave this speech and J.D. Vance gave that speech a year ago. The idea that America now defends free speech, unlike the prior administration. And everyone needs to follow America's example of actually extolling free speech. And here, look, I'm not a huge fan of Talarico, but his point is correct. I'm not a big fan of cancel culture.

I think there's a cancel culture of the left and a cancel culture of the right. But the argument from conservatives was always that, you know, the most dangerous kind is when the federal government uses the power of the state to impose its will on free speech. And like we've seen the cycle with lawfare, with violations of norms, one side violates the norms and the other side gets into power and violates them even more because they use that precedent. We can talk about that with things like the filibuster or all sorts of things. If you don't think there'll be enormous pressure on the next Democratic administration to play tit for tat against right wing talk radio, I think you're crazy.

Of course they're going to try and do that. And that's why you're supposed to have neutral rules to the merits rather than this sort of bring one junta in, attack the other side, bring the other junta in and get payback. And that's the cycle that we're going to see here.

TAPPER: Yes. Jonah Goldberg, Bill Carter, thanks to both you. Appreciate it.

Still ahead, new fallout for a British royal mentioned repeatedly in the Epstein files. The business deal's now gone, just days after her e-mail messages with the dead pedophile were exposed. But first, that tragic disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, with the she leading the search said today about DNA found on a glove and DNA in the Guthrie home. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:16:00]

TAPPER: In our national lead, the FBI's database found no matches for the DNA on a glove found two miles from the home of Nancy Guthrie. That glove appears to match one the suspect had on at Guthrie's front door before she disappeared. Investigators in Tucson, Arizona, have been searching for the 84-year-old mother of "Today" show anchor Savannah Guthrie for 17 days now.

Joining us now to discuss former FBI agent Bryanna Fox. She's a professor of criminology at the University of South Florida.

Bryanna, now that the CODIS, C-O-D-I-S system, the FBI's DNA matching system, failed to produce any matches, will they have to use services like Ancestry.com, 23andMe, any other genealogy service, to find a DNA match that has worked in the past. Explain to us how it works.

BRYANNA FOX, FORMER FBI AGENT: Yes, I think that's exactly what they're going to do next. Actually, it's worked over a thousand times in the past few years just to solve cases that really had no other leads. So this is when they can't find a match in CODIS, which currently has about 19 million entries, what the FBI or the entering law enforcement agency will do is take that DNA profile. They have to convert it into another type of profile, which does take a little bit of time. They then compare that profile to what people have uploaded themselves into these public databases like GEDmatch or others.

So these are people that are voluntarily putting their own profiles on the Internet. They want to do this because sometimes Ancestry.com or 23andMe, they don't talk to each other. So if you have your profile uploaded publicly, you now have the ability to compare matches and see family members that maybe did a different type of genetic testing. They now can use that to see, oh, did this person who committed this crime have a half-brother or a cousin or an aunt who's in this database?

They then use that to say, well, we can tell it's an aunt because the genes say it's a female and this is a male and it's half removed. They then can look at who is this person related to and start basically conducting the police investigation at that point, finding DNA at that person's scene. Maybe they put it in the trash, maybe they left it at work. And they can then compare that to what was found at the Guthrie household.

TAPPER: We also know that the DNA from the glove does not match the DNA recovered from Nancy's house, which is still being processed. What's the significance of that? FOX: Well, that was actually a big deal. I actually was hoping it

would be the same, obviously, even though they both weren't in CODIS. But it could actually mean that there's two suspects. That's always a possibility or, of course, the glove is just unrelated and accidental.

I would say one thing about the glove, though. I noticed that unlike a standard medical glove, which about cuts at the wrist, this one's a little bit longer. That's what we see in that video footage, and you see it at the glove recovered, so it does give me more hope. It is, in fact, the one that's related to the Guthrie case. But the fact that they're not the same DNA found in the home, it could just mean that there's actually two DNA profiles.

TAPPER: And just to be clear, the DNA found in the Nancy Guthrie house, we're talking about DNA that is not family DNA or, you know, people married to people in her family. It's unknown DNA. Investigators are trying to locate Nancy Guthrie's pacemaker using some sort of sensing technology. They say they're working with the manufacturer and other experts in the field as well. How does that process come together to narrow in on where Nancy could be?

FOX: Right. They use, basically like drones, and they have a very sensitive frequency, so they can see these low radio -- low frequency pulses that come off, let's say, of a pacemaker. Now, a lot of people have pacemakers, so there's going to be a high false positive rate, but at least they can start, you know, asking questions and seeing is there somebody with a pacemaker in an area that essentially nobody owns up to? Someone says, no, we don't have a pacemaker, but they're getting a signal there. That would obviously be extremely telling.

TAPPER: All right, Bryanna Fox, thanks as always for your expertise and your time.

If you have any relevant information in this case, please call the Pima County Sheriff's Department at 520-351-4900 or the FBI at 1-800- CALL-FBI. You can also reach the agency online at tips.fbi.gov.

[17:20:11]

Today, Vice President J.D. Vance said President Trump has a red line on Iran but wants to see diplomatic conversation first. How long will President Trump let talks go on with a U.S. military fleet floating right off the coast of Iran? We're going to get some insight next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our world lead today, lots of comings and goings today in Switzerland as U.S. negotiators Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner shuttle between a high stakes meeting on Iran's nuclear and trilateral talks, on trying to end the war that Russia is waging against Ukraine. The bottom line on both meetings is more talks are needed.

[17:25:07]

Here to decipher all the diplomacy is Brett McGurk, who served in senior White House and State Department posts for four U.S. presidents from both major U.S. parties.

So, Brett, thanks so much for being here. Before today's talks, the Supreme Leader of Iran spoke out against the ongoing naval buildup, U.S. naval buildup in the Persian Gulf. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALI KHAMENEI, SUPREME LEADER OF IRAN (through translator): They keep saying we've sent an aircraft carrier towards Iran. Very well. An aircraft carrier is certainly a dangerous piece of equipment, but more dangerous than the carrier is the weapon that can send that carrier towards the bottom of the sea.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: What's the purpose of that? I mean, nobody thinks that Iran is any actual threat to the United States.

BRETT MCGURK, FORMER MIDDLE EAST & N. AFRICA COORDINATOR, NATL. SECURITY COUNCIL: First of all, he's

the key guy. So the Araghchi, the foreign minister, the Iranians in Geneva really don't have too much say in the matter. Khamenei speech today, not only that, threatening to sink our ships, which I think that they wouldn't really be able to do. He doubled down on we will not negotiate over enrichment of uranium. This is their consistent position now going back almost 15 years.

And there's not going to be a deal if they're not willing to, I think, give up enrichment of uranium. Of course, they're not enriching uranium now because of the strikes in June. So I just don't see these talks really going anywhere. The Iranians came out today, said we agreed in principle to understandings. There's a saying in diplomacy, if you hear a diplomat say, we agreed in principle, it means we agreed on nothing in practice.

So I want diplomacy to succeed. But I'm looking at two things, what the Supreme Leader is saying and this military deployment, Jake, which is a massive deployment. Clearly this is an operational deployment. This is not just a show of force. We're deploying two aircraft carrier strike groups, KC135 air refuelers that you need, all the air defense systems. This is a significant endeavor.

And it seems like this feels to me like in June, where we were trying to negotiate but ultimately led to a military campaign.

TAPPER: We got at least some photographs from the talks among the U.S., Russia and Ukraine today, before the talk started, Russia launched another wave of attacks across Ukraine. More than 400 drones, killing at least two people, injuring at least 16. What are you hearing about these talks? Is there any hope that these will prove fruitful?

MCGURK: It's, you know, it's kind of similar because I don't -- there's an issue on the eastern Donbas, which is the land that Putin has said, clearly. So you got to take it -- take these guys at face value, Supreme Leader of Iran and Putin, by the way, they're working together. The -- a lot of these drones being launched by Russia are Iranian drones --

TAPPER: Right.

MCGURK: -- Iranian technology they pass to the Russians. So keep that in mind. It's all kind of linked. But Putin has said we will take this territory, Russia will, at the -- at the diplomacy table or by force. And so he's trying to see if he can get it at the diplomatic table. Zelenskyy today said that is not going to happen.

And the Russians, it seems, are not able to take it by force. I think, and I've negotiated with the Russians in the past, and again, take them at face value, I think Putin is hoping that this spring, in what is the fighting season or in the fifth year of the war, that he can achieve a breakthrough and take this territory by force. Every expert I talk to says that is not likely to happen. Russians are taking massive casualties. So if he fails in that spring offensive, there might then be a chance for this diploma to cease to succeed. But right now, this seems to be a lot of motion diplomacy without a real movement forward on that key issue.

TAPPER: One last thing, and quickly, if you can. Today we heard that the U.S. military announced it struck three more presumed drug boats in the Eastern Pacific and Caribbean last night, killing 11 people. This brings the death toll to at least 135 since the strikes began by the U.S. in September. There's still a lot of questions about the intelligence. Whether or not everybody they're killing is actually bringing drugs to the United States.

What kind of impact are those strikes having?

MCGURK: Unclear. I wish there was more transparency on this, Jake. This is using U.S. military force lethally. There should be more briefings in Congress about exactly what's going on, what the objectives are, and answering that key question, what effect are we having? I think these guys on drug boats are not the people who are really critical to the overall drug trade.

The overall drug trade are the cartels and the leadership. And also, of course, the demand for drugs in our country. It's a very complicated issue. It has to be addressed holistically. But I think transparency is really key here.

These are -- this is military power, lethal military power by the U.S. military without the American people. I think really having much of an understanding of exactly what we're doing. We all want to stop drugs coming into our country. I think we all support that. But again, use of the U.S. military is the most serious decision a president can make.

That also brings you back to Iran, Jake, and where that's heading. And I think -- I think a big decision is coming for the president over the next month or so.

[17:30:03]

TAPPER: Brett McGurk, thanks so much.

Ahead, the lasting legacy of one of the most influential figures in American politics, and that's the Reverend Jesse Jackson, who passed away today at the age of 84. We're going to talk about his life with another trailblazer who worked on Jackson's 1988 presidential campaign. That's next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REV. JESSE JACKSON, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: We must never surrender. America will get better and better. Keep hope alive. Keep hope alive. Keep hope alive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: In our National Lead, tributes are pouring in for the Reverend Jesse Jackson, who died today at the age of 84. Jackson is being remembered for his decades of leadership in the civil rights movement and his fiery oratory as an activist and presidential candidate.

[17:35:04]

President and Mrs. Obama released a statement today saying, "Reverend Jackson helped lead some of the most significant movements for change in human history. He was relentless in his belief that we are all children of God, deserving of dignity and respect."

President Trump remembered him as, "A force of nature, like few others before him." President Clinton said he was grateful for his almost 50- year friendship with Jackson and writing, "Hillary and I loved him very much. Our hearts and prayers go out to Jackie, their children and grandchildren and all the people across America and around the world who were inspired by his service to humanity."

Let's discuss Reverend Jackson with the former ambassador and the first black woman elected to the U.S. Senate, Carol Moseley Braun. So, Ambassador Braun, you were a volunteer for Reverend Jackson's 1988 presidential campaign, but even before that, you were a teenage intern for him in the mid-60s for Operation Breadbasket. This is a relationship and an admiration you had for him that went on for decades. What will you remember most about him?

CAROL MOSELEY BRAUN, DELEGATE OF JESSE JACKSON'S 1988 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: How inspirational he was. He had a gift -- he had a speaking gift that allowed him to put words together in ways that would motivate everybody. I mean, you could not sit back and listen to Jesse Jackson and not be inspired to do something good.

He was very much into public service and very much into supporting his fellow human beings. And so, I was inspired by that. I think that's why I went over to the -- they had a movie theater when Operation Breadbasket first started in Chicago, a movie theater on Halsted, I recall.

It might have been Ashland, but it was here on the southwest side of Chicago. And I remember going over there because my mother worked not far from there, and I would take her to work and then go over to PUSH. It was before it was PUSH. Go over to Breadbasket and pass the basket around to try to collect contributions, keep the doors open. And so, I go back. I could have been over 15 years old, maybe a little bit older, might have been 16. But the point is, I go way back with him.

TAPPER: So amazing. I'm kind of jealous. That's -- I mean, that's so amazing to have been there. You've credited Reverend Jackson with creating the building blocks for your own political life, including your successful campaign for the U.S. Senate. What specifically did he do to pave the way or to help you?

BRAUN: He specifically let people know that talent does not have race or gender. Talent is something that everybody can bring to the table, and that it's our responsibility as citizens of this great country to bring those talents to the table and do what we can to make things better for other people. I mean, he was a great public servant, but as much as the point, he was a great servant of God.

TAPPER: Before his campaigns for president in 1984 and 1988, Reverend Jackson tried to take up the mantle as a leader in the civil rights movement from Dr. Martin Luther King after King's assassination. Reverend Jackson actually met with Reverend King shortly before he was killed. The photograph right after King was shot at that motel, you see Jesse Jackson in the photograph. What legacy does Reverend Jackson leave behind specifically in the area of civil rights?

BRAUN: In civil rights, he was a motivator as much as the point. He got people involved or engaged in the first place and reminded them they had a responsibility to be patriots and to participate in making our country better. And that inspiration did not fail him over the years. That's what allowed -- that's what fueled his campaign for president in 1984 and 1988.

TAPPER: Reverend Jackson appealed to Americans of all sorts of races and backgrounds and ages. I want to play a clip from his 1972 visit to Sesame Street.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACKSON: I may be small --

KIDS: I may be small --

JACKSON: -- but I am --

KIDS: -- but I am --

JACKSON: -- somebody.

KIDS: -- somebody.

JACKSON: I may make a mistake --

KIDS: I may make a mistake --

JACKSON: -- but I am --

KIDS: -- but I am --

JACKSON: -- somebody.

KIDS: -- somebody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: I am somebody. A popular refrain recited by Reverend Jackson. What does it tell you about him?

BRAUN: It tells me what I think what inspired me that he was a man of the people who saw no divisions. He wanted to bring people together in behalf of the higher values, the higher angels of nature Abraham Lincoln once called. So and he did that in a way that appeals to people all over the world and all over this country and all over the world. And so people got a sense of possibilities. And at the end of the day, that's what being an American is about. Believing in the possibilities of this country. And Jesse Jackson was a patriot in that regard. He always believed and he inspired others to believe as well.

TAPPER: Ambassador, Senator, trailblazer in her own right, Carol Moseley Braun. It's always an honor to have you on the show. Thank you so much.

[17:40:05]

BRAUN: It's my pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me.

TAPPER: Up next, a major departure at the Department of Homeland Security under the leadership of Secretary Kristi Noem. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our Politics Lead, as public outcry grows over the Trump administration's aggressive immigration crackdown, one of its most vocal and staunch defenders is stepping down from her post. A Trump official tells CNN that Tricia McLaughlin, top spokesperson for DHS Secretary Kristi Noem, is going to leave her post next week. Her departure follows multiple high-profile shootings in Minnesota that called into question the department's credibility. My panel joins us now.

[17:45:03]

Former Congressman Dent, in addition to being a vocal defender of the agency, she was, apart from Secretary Noem, the most visible. She would frequently appear on networks to champion Trump's immigration agenda. What do you make of her departure?

CHARLIE DENT (R), FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: Well, it's pretty hard to defend the indefensible and explain the inexplicable, particularly with the recent events at DHS. I was on the Homeland Security Committee back in the day when we had serious Homeland Security secretaries from Tom Ridge to Michael Chertoff to Napolitano, you know, to Jeh Johnson and John Kelly, people who believed in civil liberties.

And here we have, you know, DHS leadership, you know, saying things that are contradicted by video evidence. And so I don't know how she can stay in that job. I mean, she might want to have a life after DHS. And so the more that she's out there having to say things that are blatantly false, can't do her any good professionally. And again, who wants to be in that position?

XOCHITL HINOJOSA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, that's everybody in the Trump administration. If you were a spokesperson in the Trump administration, it is very hard, especially with what they want to talk about, to kind of come out with the facts. And any good spokesperson has to talk to reporters all the time so they can get out the facts.

I think that looking back at DHS and this administration overall, I think there's two things. One, there's a problem with honesty. We saw it in the last Trump administration, not giving out the full facts. I do think that whoever is a Democrat or whoever comes after Donald Trump, they do need to think about how to get more people out there more often and voices, but truthful voices. So I do think there's something to learn about this administration. But lying to the press, not one of them.

TAPPER: So a recent Marist/PBS/NPR poll found that Americans' approval of Trump's immigration policy, which used to be strong, continues to fall. Sixty-five percent of the American people polled say the ICE crackdown has gone too far. So do you think that Tricia McLaughlin's departure has anything to do with the administration listening to these numbers? And in combination with Kristi Noem and Greg Bovino kind of being pulled out of Minnesota and Tom Homan going in, is this an attempt to bring the temperature down or?

HINOJOSA: Yes. I mean I think that it's -- one of the things the White House is struggling with is that they need to figure out how to change their overall strategy and messaging is part of it. When you have the White House running an agency, running DHS from the White House, running DOJ from the White House, that is never good for anyone but then that also means that somebody has to leave when there is a problem and the White House doesn't have confidence in that agency. This is what I think that you're seeing now.

TAPPER: Yes, we have been told that Tricia McLaughlin had plans before to leave but then --

HINOJOSA: She may not be doing her -- I mean she may be told by the White House what to do and that happens a lot and I know that's happening at DOJ right now where the White House is dictating the messaging strategy. If you're at an agency and the White House is dictating your messaging strategy, why would you stay?

DENT: Republicans had an advantage on the immigration issue. They successfully secured the border but given the events of how they've gone about enforcement through ICE and CBP and the professionalism and leadership problems within the department, they need to make changes. It's pretty clear. That's what this is all about. They've had to drag in Tom Homan whatever your opinions of Tom Homan are I think we can all agree he's a professional who's experienced in this field. And they have to -- and she is a casualty of all this. And -- but --

TAPPER: But I don't think Tricia -- I'm not here to defend anything that DHS has said but don't -- when I think of being lied to, I don't think of Tricia McLaughlin, I think of Bovino and Noem and Stephen Miller saying things that we could see were completely contradicted by video or contradicted by I mean there was just an incident last week I think it was where they claimed they had been attacked with shovels in Minnesota and then in court they had to back away and now they're looking into whether the ICE agents lied to them, I mean that's not Tricia, that's kind of a higher level of problem.

DENT: I totally agree with that but again I get back to this, I just remember all the previous DHS secretaries, all very distinguished backgrounds, you know, an appellate judge, you know, former governors who were very serious in their jobs and I think Kristi Noem she's been out there saying a lot of things really much about the optics and the visuals rather than the guts of that work and we stood up that committee in the 2005 session for the first time the Homeland Security Committee and we took that really seriously, oversight.

And we were very careful not only to go after terrorism which was the issue at the time but also to make sure that we were respecting civil rights, that we were not, you know, doing things to abuse the Muslim community. We were being very careful. And I feel like right now there's just no control there, they're just wild statements calling Ms. Good, you know, a terrorist, you know, crazy.

TAPPER: Right.

HINOJOSA: From the White House, mainly.

TAPPER: Yes. So on Thursday President Trump is heading down to the Georgia District of former Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene to talk about affordability. Early voting is already underway in the crowded race to replace Greene who resigned in the middle of her term in January. And then we should also note the President endorsed former District Attorney Clay Fuller earlier this month for the seat. What do you make of this all?

[17:50:19]

HINOJOSA: Well, the fact that he's talking about affordability in Georgia when the cost of living in Georgia has gone up significantly, the average person in Georgia is paying about 1,000, $2,000 more now than they were before. And we are seeing that throughout Trump's policies, Georgians are hurting that this is just one of those instances. And if you heard Trump talk about not going to be able to go to Georgia without talking about Marjorie Taylor Greene.

TAPPER: Right.

HINOJOSA: So while this is affordability we know that he cannot control himself. He cares about loyalty. He cares about people defending him. And the fact that Marjorie Taylor Greene went out against him I think will be a major focus of his speech because he just doesn't understand how someone can go out and say something like that. This isn't about voters. This is about getting back at Marjorie Taylor Greene.

TAPPER: So Marjorie Taylor Greene obviously started out as one of the most loyal members of Congress and then, you know, broke with the President on some of the issues, especially the Epstein files.

DENT: Well, yes, look the President is going down into a ruby red district in North Georgia and if he's going to go anywhere, he might as well go there, don't send him to a swing district, Send him in there and let him bash Marjorie Taylor Greene, let him endorse his preferred candidate. That's what I think this is about. I'm not sure that this is going to have a whole lot of impact. Again, I don't think he's going to stay on message.

TAPPER: What a risky bet you're taking there.

HINOJOSA: He's not going to talk about affordability?

DENT: I'm sure he'll mention it and then he'll get on to what he really wants to talk about and this new guy is going to be much better.

TAPPER: Yes. But if there is a more MAGA candidate than Clay Fuller, the district won't go for Trump's preferred candidate.

HINOJOSA: Well, and we're seeing that all over the country right now where some of these candidates, and Trump's preferred candidate isn't necessarily coming out on top, that's why just yesterday or two days ago in Texas, he doesn't want to make an endorsement in that race, just yet because he doesn't know who's going to come out on top.

TAPPER: Right.

HINOJOSA: And this -- that means a lot to him, not the race it's whether or not he picks the winner.

TAPPER: He likes all three of the Republicans running in that race. Thanks to both of you. Appreciate it.

The Epstein files exposed her friendship with the dead pedophile. Now companies linked to the former Duchess of York, Sarah Ferguson are shutting down. That story is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:56:52]

TAPPER: In our World Lead today, major, major new fallout for a British royal mentioned repeatedly in the Epstein files. Six companies linked to Sarah Ferguson, the former Duchess of York and the ex-wife of former Prince Andrew who has been disgraced in this scandal. Companies are now shutting down. As CNN royal correspondent Max Foster reports, messages appear to show Ferguson and Epstein kept a long friendship well after Epstein's crimes were publicly known.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Six companies listing Britain's Sarah Ferguson as sole director are set to shut down as the Epstein firestorm rolls on. The former Duchess and her ex- husband, Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor, are under renewed scrutiny over their ties to the late financier after Epstein pleaded guilty to prostitution charges involving an underage minor.

Last year, Ferguson's spokesperson said she'd cut off relations with Epstein, "As soon as she was aw of the extent of the allegations against him." DOJ files suggest otherwise. Epstein's crimes were publicly reported in 2006, the year he was also first arrested. The latest tranche of files released by the Department of Justice, revealed the depth of Ferguson's friendship with the late financier with one e-mail thread discussing a lunch date in Palm Beach. This was 2009, just five days after Epstein after serving 13 months.

It will be myself, Beatrice and Eugenie, Ferguson tells him, referring to her daughters at the time aged 20 and 19 years old. Cannot wait to see you, she tells Epstein in a subsequent e-mail. Another exchange between Epstein and his assistant shows that he paid more than $14,000 to fly the Duchess and the two princesses to the U.S. on that trip. Just days later, Ferguson thanks him for being the brother I've always wished for. And the following year she goes as far as saying, you're a legend. I'm at your service. Just marry me.

Then, in March 2011, Ferguson publicly apologizes for being associated with Epstein, saying in an interview, "I abhor paedophilia and any sexual abuse of children and know that this was a gigantic error of judgment on my behalf." Except that in private, she appears to apologize to Epstein for publicly denouncing him, calling him a supreme friend.

Ferguson's spokesman told British media this e-mail was sent in the context of advice the duchess was given to try to assuage Epstein and his threats. Now publicly available documents show that in the past few days, six companies which list Ferguson as the sole director, all filed an application to strike the company off the U.K.'s official company's house register. It is not clear exactly what services those companies provided or whether they were active at all.

We reached out to Ferguson's representatives multiple times for comment on the exchanges seen in the Epstein documents. CNN has also requested comment from Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie.

[18:00:02]

Max Foster, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: And welcome to The Lead.